The subject doesn't really reflect my own most deep-seated convictions, but I wanted to throw it on the table in something like 'debate' format. Just speculating: it does seem possible that our modern day world provides a much different setting than that in which leaders such as Gandhi and MLK operated. And with the protests going on in Iran, and with Tiananmen Square not quite completely forgotten, it does seem a timely time to ask the question. So, is nonviolent resistance as much an option as it ever was? Or, are there unique qualities about our here and now that make it likely nonviolent resistance will go the way of the dinosaur? I'd be interesting to hear Pros/Cons/Alternatives and reasons why. Or if someone wants to moderate and build a consensus on more structured rules for debate, or more clear-cut questions to encourage debate, fine by me.
I think this really belongs in politics?
I disagree with the premise that our 'modern world' is indeed that much different (although obviously in some respects, given the rise of technology and incidence of terrorism as a 'valid' form of warfare, it is) than that of the recent past.
Also, I believe people don't fully understand what passive resistance entails. It certainly isn't 'passive' in any way, and in all reality means that instead of striking out in violence, a passive resister will stand before violence and take the consequences of action upon himself. It is one of valiant self sacrifice.
And the deal is--this kind of movement takes a while to get rooted, but once it does, there is no stopping it. One might call Jesus Christ one of the first proponents of passive resistance. Now the story of his dying on the cross for our sins has been widely, widely spread. MLK, too, among many, has virtually been canonized. Same principle can be found in the story underlying the movie "Braveheart." It's very hard to do battle with martyr....lol... Now, I'm being a little sarcastic here and making light of it, but the fact remains that human beings are not naturally given to violence, and legends/stories/literature and their history shows that these kinds of narrative works in shaping us culturally and politically and provides necessary social change.
I don't really want to get in to a major debate on it, but I suspect that like most circumstances in life it will come and go depending on the times and the individuals involved.
Perhaps what it needs is another Gandhi or King to give it focus and create a following.
It's not obsolete. If enough peaceful people come together for enough of a peaceful cause with enough of a peaceful leader, anything can happen. Boycotts are strong, if they are on a united front.
"Violence is American as apple pie."
So you don't agree with them? Neither do I. Do you know of a leader who has shown peace and got something done?
I think that if there was two thousand or two million i beleive a tyranical government will adjust the number of tanks accordingly.
A civil rights leader?
No, actually. I would think gays would be the major civil rights movement right now but they don't have a clear figurehead. just a group fighting for a cause.
Even if that leaderless group resorted to violence, nothing would be done (except maybe more hate and a possible gayocide [excuse my crude speech])
Enough Chinese are happy to support their government for it to secure at the moment. Also majority nationalist sentiment is so strong it gives the government carte blanche to crush minority protests.
I get the feeling the same is true in Iran, though the situation is more finely balanced.
When I was in Thailand I got to see first hand how a popular grass roots movement could unseat a government that was not only democratically elected but supported by the majority of the population.
The grass roots movement was supported by business enemies of the then premier and the army and police refused to defend the government for their own reasons. If there was an election tomorrow the ousted government would be back.
Popular movements aren't always right, pure or worthy of support.
I think like all things in history is cyclical. It is intresting to note that almost no major political change has come about through peaceful means. I beleive the exception could be considered the civil rights movement in America, but that being one of the few exceptions. Im not calling anyone to violence but rather adding historical perspective. I think you must diferentiate between what kind of political change you are asking for. If you are asking to change the definition of marrige for a special intrest group then yes its possible for non violent means to prevail. But to change a country from its highest held beleifs (constitution) it would probably take violence.
You missed out the biggest peaceful revolution by Gandhi mobilizing millions in India.... even our civil rights movement would be dwarfed by there sheer numbers.... but you're right the same peaceful movement by the students or Tibetan Buddhists has no effect on the Chinese .... have no clue why peaceful resistance doesn't work in every case.
Thats what I was going to say. Non-violence does not always get you what you're fighting for. It depends on the 'cause'. Gandhi might have achieved his objectives but can we forget the massacre it lead to. Millions of people lost their lives, homes, properties and all that they possessed. Was it really non-violent? How can we forget all that 'hate' it gave rise to, between people of two countries? Repurcussions of those (so-called) non-violent means are still being faced by the present generations. So I can't say for sure if Gandhi was able to achieve freedom from British totally through non-violent means. Again, speaking of Twin Tower catastrophe in NY, what was the Government supposed to do? Follow Gandhian policy? (If someone slaps you on one cheek offer him your other cheek). Funny. Huh?
From my understanding right up to the point of independence it was peaceful... India/Pakistan partition lead to those violent clashes... correct me if I'm wrong.... thanks for the fan letter... I will try writing more... gotta go now.
If you call one sided onslaught on innocent people, a peaceful movement, then it was like that before independence. I don't know if it makes any sense to tolerate brutality only for the purpose of sticking to 'non-violence' principles. And even if you do, I'm sure it cannot be completely free of violence. There is so much always going on at the high level which common man does not even come to know. We know about these events from the books or from some verbal information which might have passed on to us from our ancestors. People at our level do not even get to know the real reason behind any mass movements. Those vested interests of the policy makers always remain concealed from general public. If you want to cut roads through mountains....'Dynamite is the only solution.
OK, I don't pretend to know everything about Ghandi, but I did write a series of lesson plans for an educational company as a freelance job... And from my research, I do not think he was to blame for the Pakastani/India things and religious nuts. Quite the opposite, as I recall, he was so upset with the situation he went on a hunger strike.
Passive resistance is certainly NOT about tolerating brutality. As a philosophy, it is the opposite thing. It is about bravery.....daring to speak out, protesting, etc., etc., while not tolerating the brutality of the state or religion or what ever it is that is enacting violence against nonviolent citizens. What is happening in Iran is a good example.
And I somewhat disagree about the "real reasons behind mass movements" and the inferred idea that we are all somewhat controlled by higher up 'power brokers.' While some of this exists, absolutely, it is a mistake to think free will does not exist and your own ability to make a difference does not exist. It's too much of a reason to accept the status quo if/when living under certain conditions. And that's dangerous...that kind of thinking, I believe, in worst case scenarios can lead to situations of conferred consent, such as in Nazi Germany.
I'm not saying passive resistance as a method is perfect, nor do I look at the idea as an innocent. I'm just saying it absolutely has its place in civil rights.
Yes, passive resistance has its place in civil rights but its effectiveness has to be evaluated in terms of the gravity of the situation. It does not fit in everywhere.
Passive resistance in regard to the current financial mess would mean actively refusing to participate in all things financial--that means no 'jobs' per se, no loans, no payments on loans you already have, no spending at corporate owned retail establishments... etc.
It would be devastating and very effective if done in huge numbers but Americans won't do it, they're too addicted to comfort and the illusion of security, and too busy fighting the pretend culture wars--going at each other instead of paying attention to what's actually happening.
True, Pam, true. But many have embraced some form of 'voluntary simplicity,' as well.
Here we come back to, sigh...the one contrary American philosopher that I can never remember the name of...oh, yeah, Charles Sanders Peirce (googled 'contrary philosopher' and he popped up, lol) who stated that homo sapiens may be the dominant life form on the planet, but true human beings are a much rarer things.
Lita I agree with you about the voluntary simplicity trend. I do not think people are going to go charging back into consumerism the minute things look up. I think the 'consumer economy' is dead in the water and will not be revived. That's why it strikes me as so crazy that they keep talking about 'the first green shoots of the recovery' in the media. Everyone keeps talking like there will be a period of distress, and then we'll be right back to business as usual. I think we won't. People will cut way back, some will drop out altogether.
I hope so too, Pam - it is the way to go. We have far less stuff and far less money, yet we are truly rich. Sun, nature, good food, good conversation - you can keep your flat screen TV!
Going to drop a link to Paraglider's excellent Hub - it fits this thread perfectly
http://hubpages.com/hub/bloodless-revolution
Passive resistance is sometimes about taking a sideways step and meeting things on your terms.
Why did India gain its (much deserved) independence?
George Orwell believed that empires fall when the rulers lose the will to maintain them. Britain, he felt, lost the will as a result of self doubt about the morality of its position (all those socialists complaining about the exploitation of the colonized).
I think it was more a case of not making money any more. The US demanded the UK open all its colonies to US trade as part of helping during World War 2. That meant there was no economic benefit in keeping them.
Gandhi pushed in an open door.
by thirdmillenium 8 years ago
Does Islam contain some doctrines that make it mandatory for all Muslims to kill/destroy/annihilate followers of other religions/atheists/agnostics? Some say it does. Some others say it was not originally in the text but had been stealthily inserted later by religious fanatics.
by Lizzy Fox 11 years ago
If you could erase any one murder from history, which would it be and why?I would have to choose John Lennon because even though The Beatles were before my time, I love every one of their records, and I may be wrong, but I feel that if John Lennon’s life was not taken prematurely, The Beatles may...
by Jane Ramona Rynkiewicz Frieman 10 years ago
Mahatma Gandhi led a passive resistance movement to free India from British rule. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. followed the teachings of Gandhi and employed passive resistance in the struggle for equal rights for African Americans and the poor.
by Evan G Rogers 13 years ago
Hey all,I came across this article today. http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block169.htmlI highly recommend reading the whole thing, but I'll summarize a few key points for those uninterested in the "hurdle" that is "reading".1) Block (the author) discusses how angry the US got...
by L A Walsh 15 years ago
Growing up during the civil rights movement. First hand accounts. Northern vs. Southern perspective.
by eli grey 10 years ago
Can we all admit that there is some amount of racism or prejudice in us?When you think about it, it is completely natural to show prejudice against those who are different than us, and history has shown us that. Supremists are racists through and through, but doesn't the little bit of resentment in...
Copyright © 2024 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2024 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |