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Does The Laws of Thermodynamics Indeed Prove That Biological Evolution Is Impossible Or Is This A Creationist Hoax?

Updated on December 1, 2011

Darwin's Beautiful Theory Rendered Null and Void

I was reading articles on global warming here on hubpages and came upon interesting statistics and data suggesting man made C02 emmission are not the cause for global warming. The Real culprit maybe water vapor and C02 just maybe less important then previously thought. I personally never thought of the global warming issue as an either/or argument as climate change is a very complex affair with many factors involved. I think many scientists and many believers in global warming see it the same way and think the vast amounts of man made C02 and other chemical emissions are like toppings on a cake or maybe straws on a camelsback. I thought these articles stimulating so I started to look at other works by these scientists and what I found was nothing less then shocking.

Biological Evolution Is NOT Possible as It Contradicts the Laws of Thermodynamics!!!

Ok I happen to be a big admirer of Charles Darwin, I admit it. I think his theory of evolution and natural selection to be quite beautiful. I have no qualms about being related to monkeys or even worms if that is indeed the case. Of course explaining the long history of life on earth is no easy feat and Darwin knew his work was just a corner stone, a work in progress and not a finished theory. If he had lived longer I'm sure he would have kept on refining his theories as new evidence became available to him. Sadly, there are very educated highly intelligent people who are seeking to discredit his work and it's acceptance by any means possible. In an article addressing the merits of Creationism vs Evolution theory I found many arguments that evolution theory is devoid of any real supporting evidence. Among the myriad of claims of no transitional fossil evidence and no genetic evidence ect. ect. I came upon the most disturbing claim of all, the high minded notion that biological evolution absolutely isn't even possible because it contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics. This was the first time I ever saw or heard about this interesting claim and so it really intrigued me. I like to try and maintain an open mind about things. I dont like to close my mind to the possiblity I may be wrong about something and this claim wasn't just coming from a mindless idiot, it was coming from a respected scientist, so I looked into it to see if it had any legitimate science behind it.

The Case Of Scientists Playing Foot Loose With Science For Religious Influence

Normally I tend to give a bit more credence to articles written by people with Dr. prefixing their name. After all if the title is real it means they spent a good deal of time studying enough to become proficient on certain subjects to earn an important degree and this usually corresponds to a certain amount of intelligence. But one always must remember there are other aspects to how a person thinks other then raw intelligence. In this regard scientists who are also Christian apologetics are writing with a distinct bias and agenda. It appears they are more then willing to cast aside good honest scientific discourse to gain an unfair advantage over uncritical minds if it will lead them to take up the faith or if they think they are defending their faith. This type of writing has way more to do with religion then critical scientific thinking but their writing will give you the impression it's the other way around. They use scientific lingo and the DR. prefix in front of their names to bolster their religious agenda and pretend they are having scientific discussion driven by science not faith. I find it very interesting that people who profess to have such a deep faith and belief in God can be so intellectually dishonest in attempting to discredit a mans intellectual work. Charles Darwin who did a good days honest work by very carefully observing nature with great patience and attention to details came to his conclusions after years of study not by bias or preconceived notions, but with an open mind toward learning about our natural world. This fearful attitude towards his work is even more ironic in the light that Darwin while a young man studied the work of Paley and read Paley's Natural Theology. Paley was a Christian Apologetic and the scientists who work endlessly to denounce evolution are of the same cloth. Darwin came to his observations not because he was motivated to lead people away from God but to enlighten himself about the natural world and how species manage to survive. It is fair to say these new Christian apologetic scientist couldn't even hold Darwin's jock strap when it comes to honest critical scientific inquiry. My research into their fantastic claim that the 2nd law of thermodynamics proves biological evolution impossible ended not with a bang but a whimper. These scientists were and are seeking to debunk Darwin's good honest work and the new theories of evolution updating it by using highly technical scientific jargon in a totally skewered manner. And to make matters worse, I dont think their faulty science was an error of science on their part. I believe these people are too intelligent to be so careless in misunderstanding the laws of thermodynamics and the nature of entropy and open and closed systems and then go on to make absolute statements. For absolute means absolutely like in 100% It takes real balls for men of science to claim proofs even though their claims are basically unsupportable and totally misleading. These scientist knew enough to use the proper scientific language but their conclusions are not supported by their premise. The second part of this last sentence is almost a quote from a expert on thermodynamic laws addressing their claims. I could find no serious basis for their claim because it's almost equal to saying life itself is impossible on earth. It's almost like saying salmon can't swim up stream because they would always be losing energy and they sure as hell do in spectacular fashion even though they are losing energy as they do so. These same "scientists" allow themselves spectacular leaps of science to arrive at their conclusions then go to great pains to nit pick biologic evolution science apart at every turn claiming no proofs exist to support evolution. Surely there must be passages in the Old & New Testaments that speak to such evils of spreading un-truths couched in half truths for the purpose of deception.





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  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    JT, your the one thats unbelievable. all i did was critic your hub about miss knox. i do believe if your going to condemn a person to hard time for bad behavior you should at LEAST get their name right. she deserves at least that much unless you happened to be in the room when the murder took place. if you were there you can i guess address her any way you seem fit.

  • JT Walters profile image

    JT Walters 5 years ago from Florida

    You have spend an awful lot of time tearing me down and failing to prove anything you have written. Really you write about something you have absolutely no proof of and then attack me?

    Yeah, I don' like your style either.

    You have broken quite a few Term of Services agreement on this hub when you personally attacked me. Specifically it is called abuse!! As if anyone who is abusive knows anything about Science or God but only hate!!

    You are a sad pathetic person who is obviously intimidated by anyone who is intellectually superior to you which is just about everyone on hubpages. I am so glad you don't need HP to tell you anything because when they shut your account down it will be because you insulted them as well.

    Wow, you really give New York and Brooklyn a bad name.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi tammy, I mention the balls thing as a point of humor.the scientist i was writing about was a man. if a woman did the same thing id say she had balls and it would be even funnier im guessing. in my latest hub which is about evolution, creationism and the pending extinctions I mention the bias against women. I also ask why God didnt create man in a womans image or why is god a he. if you simplify what you might consider God away from the biblical idea I perfer to call IT the creator and i have less trouble with that idea. while I believe in the evidence and beautiful relationships systems of evolution I do not positively rule out a creator of the universe at the beginning possibly but it looks like species were not created whole to me as the universe is very dynamic and things change all the time so why not species. thanks for reading my hub. in my other hub i mention man always trying to be on top above women. i think women are equal to men. i dont understand religions that talk about true enlightenment and then are somehow bias against women. it just doesnt make sense. thanks for the comment.

  • tammyswallow profile image

    Tammy 5 years ago from North Carolina

    "It takes real balls for men of science to claim proofs even though their claims are basically unsupportable and totally misleading."...

    Really?? Many excellent scientists are females.

    I do not have a PH.D, but I have done extensive thesis research on creationism and evolution. I in fact feel that thermodynamics prove the existence of God.

    The second law of thermodynamics actually states:

    "In Any Energy Conversion, Some Energy is Lost in the Form of Heat Which Cannot be Recovered as Useful Energy."

    If you apply this theory to the fact that the Earth is not a "closed" system, it does appear like it discredits the validy of evolutionism. However,photosynthesis works because the sun is adding energy to the earth. Biological systems can have energy added to them by any number of methods such as light, radiation, heat, thermal vents, etc., improving their order. The second law verifies many biblical statements, but it is not a tool to attack evolution.

    Creationists (who are also scientists with PH.D's) use the 2nd theory of thermodynamics as an argument FOR creation. It is a valid argument that will make the most astute non-believer think about the existance of God and an after life. This theory states basically.. energy cannot be created, nor destroyed.. Applied to the human being.. as a closed system.. when we die, our "energy" is not destroyed..

    So, where does it go? Is it our human intellect? Some theorists say it is our soul. The human body actually weighs 2 pounds less instantly on death due to this energy converstion. No matter what your religious beliefs are, people should really take concern as to what this theory means..

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi JT, with all due respect. Hubpages says they want quality content. I take great care in everything I do. I would do that naturally I dont need hubpages to tell me that. I cannot help but notice you dont take the time to even properly edit your writing. as for me not lasting long here. which one of me do you mean the one who wrote the hub to which you responded and was in basic agreement with or the one you wrote acting like we were in disagreement. why are you trying to explain something on which we seem to agree? that is NOT a debate. it maybe a lesson of sorts but no debate. to be honest your style of writing is not my cup of tea. am I allowed to say that. I consider hubpages a serious forum and I use it that way. I read your hub on amanda knox and you were making all kinds of accusations that really didnt make sense in terms of proving her guilt of murder charge but guilty of bad character so it really doesnt matter if she killed anyone because she is guilty of other crimes so what the hell. I wouldnt want you to be my attorney thats for sure. as for the Italians being so culture conscious their mafia culture has Naples swimming in garbage. They allow gypsy kids to run amok. they have no laws regarding criminal juvenile behavior. any Italian who gets brushed up against immediately checks to see if they have just been robbed. warning everyone ..if your planning a first trip to Europe alone dont go to Italy. thats because you will need another set of eyes just to keep your belongings in place. no honest Italian will take issue w what I just said because they know it's the truth. I think hubpages is big enough for the two of us. I have no idea how long you will last here and Im NOT into censorship but you seem to have alot more time to spend on hubpages then me and I have to make my time count here. try not to take my deletion on your unfinished comment to heart...but there was NO debate taking place as far as I could see. you were giving a lesson and I wasnt in your class.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi JT, with all due respect. Hubpages says they want quality content. I take great care in everything I do. I would do that naturally I dont need hubpages to tell me that. I cannot help but notice you dont take the time to even properly edit your writing. as for me not lasting long here. which one of me do you mean the one who wrote the hub to which you responded and was in basic agreement with or the one you wrote acting like we were in disagreement. why are you trying to explain something on which we seem to agree? that is NOT a debate. it maybe a lesson of sorts but no debate. to be honest your style of writing is not my cup of tea. am I allowed to say that. I consider hubpages a serious forum and I use it that way. I read your hub on amanda knox and you were making all kinds of accusations that really didnt make sense in terms of proving her guilt of murder charge but guilty of bad character so it really doesnt matter if she killed anyone because she is guilty of other crimes so what the hell. I wouldnt want you to be my attorney thats for sure. as for the Italians being so culture conscious their mafia culture has Naples swimming in garbage. They allow gypsy kids to run amok. they have no laws regarding criminal juvenile behavior. any Italian who gets brushed up against immediately checks to see if they have just been robbed. warning everyone ..if your planning a first trip to Europe alone dont go to Italy. thats because you will need another set of eyes just to keep your belongings in place. no honest Italian will take issue w what I just said because they know it's the truth. I think hubpages is big enough for the two of us. I have no idea how long you will last here and Im NOT into censorship but you seem to have alot more time to spend on hubpages then me and I have to make my time count here. try not to take my deletion on your unfinished comment to heart...but there was NO debate taking place as far as I could see. you were giving a lesson and I wasnt in your class.

  • JT Walters profile image

    JT Walters 5 years ago from Florida

    That's fine. Not a very god way to start your existence in this community accusing your readers of not reading your work but all of life is about a choice. You are the first person to ever make that accusation.

    I was in edit mode rewriting my comment and the time expired and put a partial comment up. So I was unable to unable to write my complete comment.

    You will not last ;ong here if you don't leanr how to make your critics your friends. It was a debate and a point well worth reading. But I understand you are to weak to be confronted with a real scientist. Real scientist see what others can't and try to prove or disprove it through Mathematices. And many Scientist have face violent opposition like Gallileo.

    Einstein said, "Brilliant minds are opressed by violent opposition." but in this case sensored. Just because you didn't understand my point didn't make it a valid argument.

    Delete this as well. It is more telling of your character then of mine. Sadly, I did read this article but it will be the last article of yours I ever read again.

    JT

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    sorry JT, I never did this before but i deleted your last response because it got the point of my hub backwards. I cant even tell if you made it past the title so I will not respond because I took great care in writing it and apparently you misunderstood the entire hub.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi don, science I dont think is around to convince you in particular or every person of every finding that gets accepted by the scientific community. now thats a fact. did you ever see a water skipper fish or a lung fish? there are fish that can breath out of water. all species can represent transitional species. there are so many closely related species it often takes dissection to tell them apart. to the naked eye they are the same. you really think a creator went down the line and created each one out of whole cloth. what about the behavior of caterpillars that release queen ant phermones to fool the ants into thinking they are part of the colony. do you really think a creator imparted this odd behavior out of whole cloth. some of these species even eat the ants. I can go on and on but I wont. if all human embryos start off as girls how is it God created Adam & Eve. many people are brainwashed at a very early age about religion and will defend it no matter what. I really dont have the time or inclination to debate this to no end. there is an old saying ..you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. like Darwin said what kind of God would make a parasite that eats its host alive? Let me put it another way if there is a God he is far stranger then the one described in the bible and i dont think for one moment man was made in his image. its foolish to even describe him as him. Im going to be writing future hubs on the subject of religion. stay tuned. ps im going to read some of your work to get a better idea of how your mind works. maybe I will have something to say on one of your pet topics. take care gh. by the way some species reproduce by themselves w.o or change sex according to their age.

  • Don Crowson profile image

    Don Crowson 5 years ago

    hi, gconeyhidden.

    Of course, I am not a scientist. But that does not mean that I don't ask question and attempt to connect the dots. Nor do I accept the conclusions reached by others as fact. Thatis what scientist do, isn't it. They continue to search until they have found the truth.

    I have two serious concerns with evolution. One is how life moved from the sea to the land, and the other is why single cells divide themselves to produce and later decided to become two sexes. And if the life forms moved from sea to land how did both sexes evolve at the same time in order to reproduce?

    Does science answer those questions? No, they speculate. And their answers are taken on faith. And yes, I have seen the evidence of embryonic development and the gill slits tht supposedly prove man came from sea life. But I have questions because the evidence can be misinterpreted.

    In fact my college biology teacher said there were as many gaps in the evoplution theory as there are in the bible.

    And I think that a true scientist would look at the evidence that the creationist present. Instead they conveniently negate the evidence because they assume there is no God; therefore, creation is impossible and cannot be science. That appears to me to be a bigoted view. So bigoted tjat tje Piltdown man was presented as the missing link for fifty years before scientist really questioned it. And now we haveLucy who is supposedly that missing link. Do you suppose those humans with tails might also be misinterpretations of scientific fact? Do you question them?

    And organized religion is the same sort of joke, isn't it? They tell you what to believe and you accept or reject it. Well, that happens in the biology classroom, doesn't it.

    But those who believe evolution is true constanly assume that those who are questioning evolution are right-win g evangelicals who are rednecks and accept the Gospel without question.

    Most Christians sleep through church and seldom ask questions. They do not really study the Bible to find answers. But how are they different from the evolutionist who refuses to look at the evidence prensented by the other side? Closed minds make the best bigots.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi, im going to try and address my apparent issues w two recent post here first w JT. as for science if you are indeed a scientist then you know that individual faith a person brings to his work is not the same that will eventually get it accepted in the scientific community. scientific verification to proof are not proven or based by faith but by rigorous independent verification of various methods the more the better.. if this is not the case they are that much easier to over turn and surely they will be exposed for their failings soon enough. now Don, personally I do not agree w you and neither does the vast majority of the scientific community. unless your a genius and a scientist your not going to make a dent in evolution even though youd love to see it to the grave. if you made as much sense as you think your making evolution would be challenged all over the place but the truth is if you care to go over the vast quantities of evidence you will find out why it is not being rejected. compare the embryos of various animals and study the developement they go thru. they have even found dolphins w four fins and humans w tails. please go to evolution hubs to see much more evidence if you can stand it. I have so many problems w organized religion and how its promoted if i started writing about it now Id be dead by the time i finished ok. you can believe what you want but if you truly value the written word and truth as you should and your really religious then you will respect other people who come to their work honestly without prior agendas and you will put as much honest work into disproving it as they did into proving it and that happens to be a life times of study and experimentation. after all if God does indeed exist he created honest intelligent folks like Darwin for a purpose and that purpose just may be to teach people like you something you need to know. i dont mean to get nasty but look how long it took the church to finally admit to child abuse by it's holy members. if they could they would have kept it buried forever along w Darwin if possible. I study insects mimics..and all is not what it appears to be. truly religious people in my mind DO NOT fear the truth or create untruths to justify their faith. if they have true faith they dont need to nor want to. far too many good people have been killed in the name of religion because they were different. so what. Jesus would NEVER condone this sort of faith in his teachings. he would condemn them.

  • Don Crowson profile image

    Don Crowson 5 years ago

    My concerns with evolution are the gaps that exist between species. There are no in-between species. Evolutionists continue to look for that missing link that is opbviously the in-between generation. None exist. The Piltdown man and Lucy are attempts to show the existence, but there doesn't seem to be any real evidence to show that there was an evolving from one species. It appears to me that each species is a separate entity that has been created to itself. There is as much evidence for creation as there is for evolving, and the only reason creationism is not a science is that God is not a quantity force of substance.

  • JT Walters profile image

    JT Walters 5 years ago from Florida

    Oh gconeyhiden,

    I am a scientist and it takes a tremendous amount of faith to work in the Sciences. I don't think you can measure morality but ethics in Science. Thermodynamics can't prove anything. As a Scientist what you know is that you acually know very little about the world. Even what we believe is true and we have a 95% confidence interval in is not always true there are exceptions.

    As for Theologians and Scietist baffling people with BS. That has been going on forever. The public needs ot educate themselves so they can't be taken advantage of.

    JT

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi don, you seem hell bent on over turning evolution. so far it is proving itself over time and is being built upon successfully. Darwin in my mind was a genius. he was also very honest and did not fudge his work for fame or to disprove the existence of a creator. actually he hid it for years until wallace came out and wrote him. modern medicine is in accordance w evolution. when your really ill you want your treatment tried and true, you dont want to be bled do you? all these tests are done first on animals don. rats, mice, monkeys ect. pigs are actually very close to humans in alot of ways and their organs can be used in human treatments. Real scientists dont really have much time to sit around and denounce God or the creator or even the story of creation unless thats happens to be their line of work somehow. they are too busy seeking out the secrets of life or how the universe works. religion and science are like oil and water. religion is based on faith, science on proof. thats why religion should not be taught in biology class. you cannot compare the two.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi JT, thanks for reading my hub. I would not normally write on the subject of thermodynamics, religion yes, thermodynamics no. but I was astonished by the claim especially because this scientist said it was absolutely impossible. I learned alot in the last few days. there are several laws pertaining to different models. but your right they do not prove or disprove creation or evolution and thats what makes this often used talking point a dishonest tactic of christian apologetic scientists. they know full well the average person cannot possibly know if they are making sense or not but it sounds great to those who have issues w evolution science. religion has been around alot longer then science because of faith and this differs from culture to culture. science is almost the complete opposite relying on testable models. real science once passing the rigors of critical analysis by independant experiments is then accepted world wide until proved wrong or overturned by new findings that can be verified. personally..Im a nature photographer..and like Darwin I spend a lot of time observing nature. I see things only evolution seems to make sense of. I respect other peoples views as long as they are honest. these "scientists" are actually not good christians as far as Im concerned.

  • JT Walters profile image

    JT Walters 5 years ago from Florida

    I wrote a hub on thermodynamics and the properties thereof are only tranferable to metals in engineering so I kind of lost how in the world Thermidynamics proves or disproves creations or evolution. Theology and Science are too very different fields although I think one must have faith to follow either.

    I have no opinion on evolution or creationism. Who cares we are here? It is what we do with the time we are here that counts.

    All My Best,

    JT

  • Don Crowson profile image

    Don Crowson 5 years ago

    But how can anyone prove the theory wrong? There is no way to prove that something evolved from something else without provingit forensicly. that appears to me to me impossible. It can only be a matter of educated guesswork

  • WD Curry 111 profile image

    WD Curry 111 5 years ago from Space Coast

    seekers are never disappointed. "Seek and you will find."

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi don, one more thing. many aspects of biological evolution are now considered facts not theory due to all the tried and apparently true evidences that have been presented to the scientific community over the years. as you point out if you disagree with these facts in school you could get a failing grade. on the other hand if you can actually prove them to be wrong and your theories stand up to independant scientific testing and retesting you will soon be the one handing out the grades. that's how it works. apparently like it or not large parts of evolutionary theory HAS stood the scientific test of time. I observe insects and i have to tell you i see the most amazing behavior and forms that to my thinking only evolution and interaction with other species over vast amounts of time can explain. take care, gh.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi WD, I have studied native american culture to no end and im very fond of all THE PEOPLE as they like to refer to themselves. Im a spiritual person and like i mention to don the previous poster I do believe the world IS a sacred place as you and the people do. I just am at a loss as far as the great creator goes, so far anyway, but if ONE exists and this is the work created then my hats off. no I dont mind funny. I did try to keep it from drying out. thanks for reading, take care. gh.

  • gconeyhiden profile image
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    gconeyhiden 5 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

    hi don, Im an artist not a scientist but i do take every chance i get to study nature (I specialize in insect & nature photography) I have done much research before writing this piece. I really do not think Darwin or any serious biologist absolutely rules out what one might call a creator somewhere. but science calls for observable evidence based on prior evidence that must be tested and tested again. Im not sure why religious people are so put off by the theory of evolution except perhaps because they feel it contradicts what is mentioned in he bible. the whole notion of science is to arrive as closely as possible to what is truth. It would seem expedient in a scientific sense to fill gaps just to fill them in a haphazard way as the chain of knowledge has to hang together and the correct pieces to the puzzel have to fit together no matter how long that takes. if in the end the evidence leads to a creator and it holds up under testing so be it. i consider myself not a religious person in the normal sense but a spiritual person. i do believe the world is a sacred place even though i really dont believe a creator is minding the store. in that sense we must do the work of minding our planet's welfare. I study comparative religion world wide but I dont believe in them. I respect even love people like Jesus, Gandi, Buddha, M.L King Jr.ect. and I think most people find it almost impossible to hold to their teachings. a true christian is a sight to behold and i will forgive them as they forgive me.

  • Don Crowson profile image

    Don Crowson 5 years ago

    Interesting. I have problems with those who teach Darwin's theory as fact and eliminate the possibility of other reasons we are here as we are.

    As I see it, there are many gaps and those who seek Ph.D.s in Biology accept the work of others without question. They either do not question the work because they believe the teachers are teaching certainty or they may fear that any disagreement with the teacher will lead to a failing grade.

    I wish the scientific mindset would include the possibility of a creator because that would fill in some of the gaps. But the mention of a creator eliminates an objective scientific study.

    Nice hub.

  • WD Curry 111 profile image

    WD Curry 111 5 years ago from Space Coast

    I happen to be a creationist. I believe we are and live in the creation of God. Like Native Americans, I believe the creation is holy. That does not mean that I cannot be tolerant or accepting of what you say here. You have presented your thoughts clearly and with palatable taste. That is what good writing is all about.

    Your rebuttal of the 2nd law of thermodynamics "thing" was brilliant.

    I hope you don’t mind that I checked funny along with the rest. I was reminded of some of the doctrine that “Evangelical Fundamentalists” have tried to sling at me through the years. They can be sticklers that you must “follow leadership”. The Bible contradicts their claims.