Shakespeare did go to school one day - did he .like his teachers? Please think...
I would say the wisest student would learn the most from any teacher. Being wiser than someone wouldn't preclude your ability to learn from them.
Remember one of the quotes:
The teacher who is indeed wise does not bid you to enter the house of his wisdom but rather leads you to the threshold of your mind.
A wise teacher knows that a wise student cannot be wiser than himself..
A wise student knows he cannot be wiser than his teacher..
Wisdom has no standard by which one man can judge the other, but each judge by the standard that he has created for himself and of himself.
So when a fool judges another another he does so by his standard of foolishness, thus making all who doesn't appear like himself unlike himself.. and he is wise.
In the company of fools, to the foolish the wise man looks exactly like themselves.
To appear wise the fools will "parrot" the truly wise and the wise among themselves (fools), thus making themselves known.
The fool will abhor the wise yet they cannot distance themselves from him completely because their own existence and purpose is inextricably knit to him.
The Wise will not obhor the fools because the foolishness of the fools is beneficial to him.
maybe this teacher should be fired or get retired...hah Happy the holiday season!
Wisdom is in knowing that there is always something to learn in all situations, and from any person, be they teacher or student.
However, if a student *knows* more about the topic being taught than the teacher, they can help the teacher become more knowledgeable, and learn more about the topic by guiding fellow students.
In teaching something, you learn just how much you don't know.
I may be out on a limb here but there isn't much "wisdom" in students , Maturity or gifted intellectualism maybe , but wisdom ? Unlikely!
I agree. But then, we actually need to clearly define what wisdom is! That may be difficult to define, as intelligence is hard to define. But then only, and only then, we can scientifically say students may not be wiser. I doubt Shakespeare was not sad to see his teachers everyday with their wisdoms.
Sadly , No, we don't get to define wisdom , wisdom isn't like the fads of media or the teaching styles of day ! Wisdom is all about being and becoming wise , and hardly does wisdom come to youth but only as we age in years. Are students more intelligent ? Are they quicker to grasp knowledge ? It's possible but wisdom is hardly a students gift , unless they are generally older. We don't pull wisdom from a book or a hat ! Maturity ? A student can be more mature ! Sad part is if any student is wiser than the teacher ; then someone hasen't done their job in hiring the teacher.
Students are sometimes more intelligent than their teachers. They tend not to get good grades.
Good answer. I know quite a few natural born 'geniuses' who couldn't pay attention in class but got good grades (I guess some don't) because they just 'knew' the subject matter or grasped it easily. Always daydreaming, doing homework in class, never picking up the book but knowing the material.
At 60, I just graduated college and knew more in many areas than my young teachers. (Just a different scenerio).
Wisdom is another area. I believe wisdom is gained by continual discrimination and practicing discernment, self control, union of the mind with the moment of absorption (unbroken unitive cognition), witnessing the rise and destruction of distraction, among other things. Mastery of character and mental impressions allows knowledge of the hidden, the subtle and the distant.
There is knowledge of everything from intuition but we allow ourselves to become encumbered by sensory inputs. The one who recognizes the distinction begins the journey of wisdom.
Knolyourself, pay attention here , we're talking wisdom!..lol.....:-}
In your example - I guess someone had to teach Shakespeare how to write ? As for wisdom I guess your question is pretty meaningless, the best student always surpasses his master in time, in every respect, or the master is not doing his job properly.
The sockpuppets are still here!
your question is pretty meaningless -Is this the way you talk to strangers??
Just because I disagree with fools does not make me a sock puppet.
Just because you have nothing to add to this thread does not make you a sock puppet either, a fool maybe, but I guess we can judge that if you ever say anything
And what makes you think emrldphx is a stranger, unless you are his sock puppet ?
read the post I was replying to.
I read it, a conversation between you and Phenom, I just don't follow your logic.
There is no logic - he said we are strangers, I asked if he was your sock puppet. There is never any logic in religious or quasi-religious threads.
Something from nothing again. Something yes but not much.
Knol, how can you say something from nothing is impossible, but it's possible, but just not much.
Being wiser than someone doesn't mean you know everything they do. If you don't know everything they do, then you can learn from them.
Agree. The journey of wisdom is about knowing from impressions not book knowledge. The mastery of the universe in all of its awesome complexity is not beyond our scope of vision. I believe we are born knowing and learn to forget, or rather if we think of it as layers, we are "layered" with outside influence. Deep inside, or underneath the layers, is the wisdom we are born with. It takes practice to become wise although some of wisdoms nuggets make stick out of sheer stubborness.
I have had bad teachers. In fact I learned in college that the trick was to find the good ones.
Of course there are different levels for different minds; fake gurus for fake students. A good teacher would have to cater to all levels simultaneously. But for me everybody I meet every time I am out is my teacher. Like you say can always learn something. Think the trick is to know what one wants or needs to learn.
Great answer. And it's likely that we don't know what we need to learn (regarding wisdom) until we actually learn it.
I would have to say that being a student doesn’t mean that you're unwise or anything. My father was a drunk who beat me and treated me like I was a grunt in the Corps. Yet he taught me how to be a father. As a result of his parenting I don't beat my children. I keep alcohol at arms length because he taught me the dangers of it. He taught me how to be a father by showing me ho not to act. As a child I was wise enough to understand this and apply the principles in my life as a father to my children.
Wisdom is relative isn't it? It is varied on life experiences and culture that the individual find themselves in. I for example am a man that believes in Christ. Wisdom for me comes from the teachings of Him and the principles find the bible combined with experiences I have come through. Though to others the very fact I put stock into the bible in any way makes me unwise in their site. They find wisdom in the mathematic equations for various things in science. Others find great wisdom in martial arts. I by no means am an educated man, I can't speak about mathematic equations and their effects on reality of gravity or whatever and to others that would make me unwise. So wisdom is relative, don't you think?
Absolutely agree. But math, martial arts and Bible study are not wisdom of themselves. They can (as can anything) teach us to be wise, teach us the paths perhaps, to wisdom. One of your important paths was your father. Meditating on anything positive is key to understanding mastery of our own character (in your case studying the Bible is equivilent to meditation). IMO.
Being a great father is a wonderful and admirable trait, but has little to do with intelligence and wisdom, generally speaking. It is more of a moral issue, and knowing what is right. However having lots of wisdom and emotional intelligence would allow a father to come up with better ideas faster, depending upon the complexity of their lives.
It doesn't matter whether or not a student is wiser than the teacher with regards to learning from the teacher.
If a student thinks they are wiser than the teacher and has nothing to learn from the teacher then the student has a false sense of wisdom based on ego, because a wise (wo)man would know and understand that s/he can always learn from everything and everyone.
amen and amen
In that case, the teacher should start to learn from the student too. And take classes publicly, from him. And respect them, in public.
Cags - well said.
Phenom - the teacher (or anyone) does not need to take classes to learn from a student. The teacher is imparting technical knowledge which he has learned. Wisdom has nothing to do with it. IMO.
Wisdom isn't the same as knowledge.
Just because someone is wiser than another, doesn't mean they know more. It just means they do more with their knowledge.
If someone thinks they can't learn from somebody else because they are too wise... I would consider that strong evidence that they have very little wisdom.
I totally agree with you emrldphx. We can learn a great deal from others. If even we study the biggest mistakes that people commit, we can understand a lot about life (Hence is history in class-rooms).
But students always admit they want to learn from people, including their teachers, the things that they do not know.
But do, and can, teachers be brave enough to admit and learn from their students the things they do not know? Some students may teach them some wisdom may be...
What are you babbling about ?
Phenom - Yes, teachers can. But only the wise ones. It's at the moment the mind is in union with the absorption of the knowledge (insight) that wisdom is gained. (and always by degrees). In other words, we do not learn anything about anything until we are ready to receive it.
Then he will learn more than a more foolish student would do!
The should be delighted and use the child's assets to enrich the the whole class.
What if a student turns out to be wiser (or more intelligent) than their teacher? Speaking as a teacher, this is something I strive for. If my students become better than I, then I have done my job perfectly. This tends not to happen below degree level, however.
Ultimately, all pupils should surpass their teachers...else there is no progress
But isn't there a little grief in that?
TFS - IYO, does the system tend to keep the more brilliant (for descriptive purposes) students down in the interest of consistency at the teaching level?
If anything, I have found the opposite. Average pupils are lauded as Gifted and Talented in order to meet the 10-15% quota for each year group.
The greatest problem is the lack of consistency in how G&T pupils are treated both inter and intra school, district and region.
Is there grief in students exceeding me...perhaps. It is saddening to know that you can teach a pupil no more, particularly where they are enthusiastic and hard working. However, it is yet to happen to me. Not through some arrogant thought of my own ability, but merely that I have not taught to the required difficulty. My pupils leave me at the age of 18, with lots still to learn.
"You can only become truly wise with age" - What a load of garbage! I believe in most cases it can quite easily be the other way round. With age it is easy to become overwhelmed with so much unimportant knowledge, blinding you from what is really useful in life.
So I'm actually quite scared of growing up...
Darth Vader sums it up well: “When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master…”
you mean like Plato and Socrates...
or Batman and Henri Ducard...
or Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi?
What if a student turns out to be wiser that his teacher?
It IS possible.
Some students are far more wiser than teachers. This is evident in their contemplative writings in the form of essays, reflections, etc which differ very much from ''normal'' students. Generally, these students will read a lot of books philosophy, psychology and sociology regularly in order to retain that profound knowledge. In short, they can be seen as precocious teenagers, or even children.
As any student should first learn , we learn until our last conscious moment of living , my advice is shut up and listen anyway ! The simple mistake of thinking we are "Wiser " than another is short sighted and immature! LISTEN and gain an ounce of wisdom from every fool out there and you will then be truly wise! Wisdom and knowledge are two completely different worlds.
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