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Padanian Language: an overview

Updated on June 22, 2014

Three things to know about Padanian

The Padanian language (or Rhaeto-Cisalpine) is a Romance language, sharing its main features with French, Occitan, Catalan as well as with Francoprovençal.

Padanian is spoken in the Po valley (in central-southern continental Europe), in the Alps, the Ligurian coast and the northern side of the Appenines, plus some exclaves in Tuscany, Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily and Lucania (see map on the left). Different varieties of Padanian are also spoken by migrant communities all over the world (Ethnologue, 2009).

Scientific work about this matter includes:

The linguistic unity of Northern Italy and Rhaetia, the monumental work by prof. G.Hull (1982);

two books and some papers by Claudi Meneghin [2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011].

Also, Hull [1989] is a very interesting comparative description of the languages spoken in Italy, including Padanian.

Note: in the map, Padanian-speaking exclaves have been drawn in green, whereas German-speaking enclaves within the Padanian domain (or immediately adjacent to it) in red. Both types of islands have been drawn much larger than their actual sizes, for the sake of readability.

The main features of Padanian outlined

The Padanian language consists in a homogeneous linguistic system made up by the Rhaeto-Romances and Cisalpine varieties. The former include Romansh, dolomitic Ladin and Friulan, the latter the Venetan and the so (improperly) called Gallo-Italic dialects. For this group, the highly inaccurate naming "northern Italian dialects" is also in use, sometimes extended to include Friulan and Dolomitic Ladin: this is a residual issue of politicised linguistics, affected by the Italian risorgimento bias and should be avoided when carrying out scientific research, see e.g. Haiman and Benincà (1992, 7), Hull (1989, 8). Padanian could be rightly named Ladin or Lombard too, but these terms currently refer to two restricted areas of the whole system.

Due to dialect fragmentation, Padanian can be locally known as Emilian, Friulan, Istrian, Ligurian, Ladin, Lombard, Piedmontese, Romagnol, Romansh, Venetan or, at an even more local scale, it can happen to be named with the gentilic of on of the places where a Padanian dialect is spoken. The lack of socio-linguistic awareness in most of the involved populations is high, with the remarkable exceptions of the Ladin, Friulan and the Romansh.

All the above linguistic varieties display common characteristics setting them apart from the dialects of Peninsular and Insular Italy and allying them closely to those of Northern France, Occitania and Catalonia (Hull, 1982, XL). In the framework of von Wartburg's bipartition (1950), Padanian belongs to the western-Romance group and has developed from Latin in an independent way from Italian, which is an eastern Romance language instead, together with the Romanian language.

The scientific community said

Statements about Padanian, by international scientists

The Ladin, Gallo-Italic and Venetian dialects constitute an essentially homogeneous linguistic system displaying common characteristics that set them apart from the dialects of Peninsular and Insular Italy and ally them closely to those of Northern France, Occitania and Catalonia (Hull, 1982, XL).

[...] the Romance vernaculars of Northern Italy and Rhaetia have conserved, and in many cases have developed further, their original Gallo-Roman structure, and the superficial Italic [...] influences on certain of them are insufficient to warrant a classification of all or part of the Rhaeto-Cisalpine zone as "Italo-Romance" in the strictly linguistic sense of the term. The "Padanian" dialects, although heteronomous today, are essentially uniform and therefore unifiable, and constitute with Franco-Burgundian (= French + "Franco-Provençal") and Occitano-Catalan a living branch of the Gallo-Romance linguistic tradition (Hull, 1982, 660).

Im Rätoromanische treten uns schlieÃlich Mundarten entgegen, die -was die grudlegenden Sprachzüge betrifft- von solchen Ãberlagerungen nahezu frei sind und in der echsten Form noch heute einen rein westromainschen Typus (eigener Prägung) darstellen.

Jene Merkmale, die das Rätoromanische mit oberitalienische (Rand-) Gebieten teilt gehören fast ausnahmslos dem gemeinsamen westromanischen Charakter Grundstock an, der ja gerade den unitalienischen Charakter all dieser Mundarten ausmacht (Schmid, 1956, 79-80).

A la fois novateur et archaïsant par rapport au gallo-italien, le réto-friulan doit être de toute façon intégré l'ensemble gallo-roman [...] cisalpin, don't il constitue [...] une aire 'marginale et conservatrice. [...] vue en diachronie, une certaine unité peut être assurée, surtout entre Raetoromania et Cisalpinia (Bec, 1970, vol.II, 316).

The above statements easily dismiss some untenable statements often issuing from the Italian establishment.

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Cayley graph
Cayley graph

On the need for a scientific approach

Sometimes Padanian, or some of its variants, in particular the so called Gallo-Italic dialects, are mistaken for a group of Italian dialects, or even dialects of Italian, a conclusion still driven by unscientific criteria inherited by the Italian Risorgimento political bias. Of course this conclusion is 'absurd', see e.g. Haiman and Benincà [1992, 7], Hull [1989, 8].

Also, [Leclerc, 2010] (accessed on 2010-04-12), well elucidates the extent to which the above statement is misguided by a scientific point of view:

A partir de l'unification de l'Italie, ces langues ont été qualifiées de 'dialectes italiens' (dialetti italiani) auxquels ont été associées des connotations dépréciatives, c'est-à-dire des 'parlers inférieurs', indignes d'être employés et transmis par une grande nation comme l'Italie.

Dialect fragmentation is chiefly due to socio-linguistic issues, but:

a) it is not subdomain based, i.e., each Padanian dialect shows the same variation of the whole diasystem, see e.g. Haiman and Benincà [1992]

b) these dialects, although heteronomous today, are essentially uniform, Hull [1982, 660].

The term "Rhaeto-Cisalpine" is common scientific usage too and explicitely refers to the two main components of the Padanian language, the Rhaetian and Cisalpine ones. "Padanian" is the natural adjective referring to the "Po" (outcome of Latin "Padus") river.

To get a list of works available on the internet, as well as an extended bibliography on Padanian and its dialects, please see the lens "Scientific research about the Padanian language" (links open in new windows).

Dialect variation

Dialect variation for "garret, attic" [Hull, 1982, 764], using data from [Jaber-Jud, 1933, 869]
Dialect variation for "garret, attic" [Hull, 1982, 764], using data from [Jaber-Jud, 1933, 869]

The Padanian language has dialects as every language does (map: dialect variation for "garret, attic" [Hull, 1982, 764], using data from [Jaber-Jud, 1933, 869]. Note the striking difference with Italian for this item). The variants of Padanian are: the Rhaeto-Romance languages (Ladin, Romansh and Friulian, (Haiman and Benincà, 1992) and references therein, as well as Leonard [1964], setting into relation this group with French) and the so (improperly) called Gallo-Italic ones (from east to west: Istrian, Venetan, Romagnol, Emilan, Lombard, Piedmontese, and Ligurian, see Haiman and Benincà [1992, Introduction], Schmid [1956, 79-80], Hull [1982], Bec [1970, vol.11, 316]).

See also the Ethnologue's 2009 reports for Emilian/Romagnol, Friulan, Istriot, Ligurian, Ladin, Lombard, Piedmontese, Romansh, Venetan.

What is a dialect?

Languages are groups of dialects

Languages are affected by different kinds of variation (e.g. geographical and sociological); a dialect is just one of the variants of a language. Reciprocally, languages are groups of dialects (with or without a standard form).

The reader could have been taught (especially if she/he has been alphabetised in Italian) that a dialect would be a corrupted form of a language instead. This is meaningless by a scientific point of view.

For instance, the dialects of Padanian are as worthwhile as the Padanian language meant as a whole, or as its standardised form.

Also, the reader could have been taught that hes/hir Padanian dialect would be a dialect of the Italian language. (Or even a corrupted one).

The latter is a political statement, making a mala fide use of linguistic issues, and will not be discussed here; the former is scientifically groundless, and its reductio ad absurdum is straightforward: simply , it would prove such an oddity as French to be an Italian dialect, Schmid [1956, 79-80].

Both statements are in fact politically biased, and they are aimed at forcing people to abandon their Padanian dialects: as such, this idea should be fought against on political grounds. This is not the goal of this note.

Koine facts: dialects mix each other!

The interaction of dialects

Within the Rhaeto-Cisalpine domain three main local standards are today in place: Rumantsch Grischun, Ladin Dolomitan (both initially developed by H. Schmid [1982, 1994]) and Standard Friulian, developed by the philological Friulian association, (Osservatori 2002a, 2002b]).

Some koiné facts do appear elsewhere too: the Piedmontese linguistic domain has to some extents a koiné (Clivio 1973); there exists a Swiss-Lombard koiné, the so called koiné da la feruvia, 'Railway Koiné', (Petrini 1989), in Tessin and part of Graubünden (Switzerland); a Ligurian koiné is envisaged in Toso [1997]. Finally, according to Trumper [1977] an urban koiné is in use in the Venetan and Lombard domains.

An interesting account of contact phenomena between Lombard and Romansh varieties can be found in Moretti, Picenoni & Stavridou [2001]. Various forms of written koiné arose in the past in the Rhaeto-Cisalpine domain, see e.g. Hull [1982].

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Fragment of the manuscript by the 'Genoese Anonymous' (13th century, kept at the Municipal historical archive, Genoa)
Fragment of the manuscript by the 'Genoese Anonymous' (13th century, kept at the Municipal historical archive, Genoa)

Padanian language: ancient samples

Ancient texts, with SPO transcriptions

In the following sections, we propose a few ancient literatury texts (here listed in aphabetical order), to which SPO, standard Padanian orthography) [Meneghin 2010] is inspired.

• Anonimous, early 14th century:

Canzon d'Auliver ll. 11-20 (Cisalpine Koiné/Venetian, Hull [1982 p. 36])

• Anonimous, (2nd half of 15th century)

Recomendaciones di Saluzzo.

• Anonimous, (approx 1150):

Subalpine Sermons, XXI, 132-42 (Cisalpine Koiné/ Piedmontese, Hull [1982 p. 36]);

• Vivaldo Belcalzer:

De proprietatibus rerum of Bartolomeo Anglico (ante 1309, Cisalpine Koiné or Mantuan, Hull [1982 p. 36]).

Subalpine Sermons, XXI, 132-42

Anonimous, (approx 1150):

Subalpine Sermons, XXI, 132-42 (Cisalpine Koiné/ Piedmontese, Hull [1982 p. 36]).

Original: Zo fo a dir: e' non ài mia zo fait, mas tu qui me donest la femena. Or dis nostre Seignor: "Tu di' que eu t'ai fait pequer, e eu troverai art e engeig per que tu seies delivré del pecá. Or t'en tornerás lá dun e' the fis, car ben est dreit e iustisia que zo que e' fis abia la penitencia e espeneissa zo que e' contradis." Or seignor frere, vardem que noi no siam engignai, sí cum to lo nostre premer pare Adam; mas sí prenem isemple del segunt Adam, zo est nostre seignor Ihesu Christ, qui venqué lo diavol.

SPO transcription: Ço fo à dir: e' non hay mia ço fait, mas tu qui me donest la fémena. Or dis nostre Seinyor: "Tu di' que eu t'hay fait pequer, e eu troveray art e engeig per que tu seyes delivré del pecá. Or t'en torneras là dun e' the fis, car ben est dreit e justisia que zo que e' fis abia la penitentia e espeneiça ço que e' contradis." Or Seinyor frere, vardem que noi no siam engignay, sí cum to lo nostre premer pare Adam; mas sí prenem ixemple del segunt Adam, ço est nostre Seinyor Jesus Christ, qui venqué lo diavol.

Recomendaciones di Saluzzo

Anonimous, (2nd half of 15th century)

Recomendaciones di Saluzzo (Cisalpine Koiné/ Piedmontese, [Gasca Queirazza 2003, 113]).

Original:La posança del Pare nos confort;

la sapiença del Figliol si nos ameystre;

la gracia e la bontà del spirit Saynt si alumy gli nostre cor.

SPO transcription: La posança del Pare nos confort;

la sapiença del Filyol si nos ameystre;

la gracia e la bontà del spirit Saynt si alumy ly nostre cor.

Canzon d'Auliver ll. 11-20

Anonimous, early 14th century

Canzon d'Auliver ll. 11-20 (Cisalpine Koiné/Venetian, Hull [1982 p. 36])

Original

Tut el servir pert e 'l son fait desconça

chi serf Amor, con' quel ch'in pred(a) çàpega;

plu sotilment che quel che vend ad onça

inganna 'l math infin tant che lo tràpega;

el son calur, ch'ard plu che viva bronça,

con' l'om plù 'l sent, et adès in su ràpega;

tut altrui fait e plaisir li par nuglia.

Con' ven de dred, fais aisì c'on che truglia,

ch'in leu del pes prend serp ch'el pò percoder:

a mi par van chi cred d'Amor çoi scoder.

SPO transcription

Tut el servir pert e 'l son fait desconça

qui serv Amor, con quel que in pred(a) çàpega;

plu sotilment que quel que vend ad onça

inganna 'l math infin tant que lo tràpega;

el son calur, ch'ard plu que viva bronça,

con' l'om plù 'l sent, et adès in su ràpega;

tut altruy fait e plaisir li par nulya.

Con' ven de dred, fais aisì c'on que trulya,

que in leu del pes prend serp qu'el pò percoder:

a mi par van chi cred d'Amor çoi scoder.

Vivaldo Belcalzer

De proprietatibus rerum of Bartolomeo Anglico (ante 1309, Cisalpine Koiné or Mantuan, Hull [1982 p. 36]).

Vivaldo Belcalzer

from the translation of the De proprietatibus rerum of Bartolomeo Anglico (ante 1309, Cisalpine Koiné or Mantuan, Hull [1982 p. 36]).

Original: Talpa è la topina fata a similituden de soreg et è çega e senza ocl e ha un musel a mod de porçel e con quel cava la tera et à in odiy la lus e 'l sol, né po longament durar sovra tera; sot tera habita, e manza le ragis ch'ela atrova sot tera et ha la pel pelosa, negra e molla, le gambe curte e y pè lad et ha partid ie did a mod de man. Aristotel dis: ongnunca animal inzenerant altr animal a sì simel ha ocl, aster la topina chi no ha ocl chi appara. Ma chi yi taia lo cor setilment atrovarà alguna significanza dey ocl ila topina, et è molt chi dis che quand la topina mor ela avre i ocl per angoscia dela mort.

SPO transcription: Talpa est la topina fata a similitúden de sóretg et est cega e sença ogl et ha un musel a mod de porcel e con quel cava la tera et ha in ody la lux e 'l sol, né po longament durar sovra tera; sot tera habita, e manja les ragis ch'ela atrova sot tera et ha la pel pelosa, negra e molla, les gambes curtes e y pè lads et ha partid ie did a mod de man. Aristotel dis: ongnunca animal ingenerant altre animal a sì simel ha ogl, aster la topina qui no ha ogl qui apara. Ma qui yi taia lo cor setilment atrovarà alguna significança dey ogl ila topina, et est molt qui dis che quand la topina mor ela avre i ogl per angoixa de la mort.

Padanian language: modern texts

In the following sections, we propose a few contemporary Padanian texts.

St.Mark Gospel (chapter four) translated into Padanian by prof. G. Hull

St.Mark Gospel -- chapter four, translated into Padanian by prof. G.Hull. Read by a native speaker of an alpine Lombard variant. Orthography: prof. Hull's UPO, unified Padanian orthography.

From 1982 PhD thesis: "The linguistic unity of northern Italy and Rhaetia". Courtesy of prof. G.Hull

Johan Padan, by Nobel Prize Dario Fo

Johan Padan and the Discovery of the Americas is a play in Padanian by Nobel Prize Dario Fo. Protagonist is Johan Padan, fleeing from Inquisition and accompanying Christopher Columbus on his fourth voyage to the New World. He joins a native tribu and helps them fitghing against Spanish colonisers.

Elements of geography of the Padanian language

In the following sections, you will be able to learn about some aspects of the geography of the Padanian linguistic domain.

Piedmontese bilingual signs

Some bilingual road signs in Piedmontese and Italian. Also featuring two signs in Walser German and one in Lombard.

Some frames have been driven beyond their natural resolution limits so they are now of low quality; however the primary goal of this video is documentary and educational. No audio.

Photos taken by the author, Dragonòt, Karla, Gioventura Piemontèisa. Many thanks for permission to use.

To get constantly updated info, please subscribe, free of charge, "The Padanian newsletter".

Lombard bilingual signs

Some bilingual road signs in Lombard and Italian. Also featuring a few signs in Emilian. No audio. Photos taken between 2009-08 and 2011-09. Most photos by the author. We are proud to thank the following persons (here listed in alphabetical order) for sending us some photos or providing information:

1) Joan Francesc Roger 2) Robert Stefenaç-Boss 3) Andjol Veronés 4) Danyel Vitæl.

To get constantly updated info, please subscribe, free of charge, "The Padanian newsletter".

Road Maps

Some places using Padanian varieties

PLACE
 

COUNTY or
CANTON

COUNTRY
 

LANGUAGE(S)
 

LANGUAGE USE

Aurigeno

Ticino

Switzerland

Lombard

Street names

Cadenazzo
 

Ticino
 

Switzerland
 

Lombard and Italian

Street names
 

Silvaplana

Grisons

Switzerland

Romansh

Official language

Maggia
 

Ticino
 

Switzerland
 

Lombard and Italian

Street names
 

Champfer

Grisons

Switzerland

Romansh

Official language

Enneberg - Marebbe

SüdTirol
 

Italy
 

Dolomitic Ladin and German

Co-official with Italian

Wolkenstein in Gröden

SüdTirol
 

Italy
 

Dolomitic Ladin and German

Co-official with Italian

Origlio
 

Ticino
 

Switzerland
 

Lombard and Italian

Street names
 

Camorino

Ticino

Switzerland

Lombard

Street names

Montecarasso

Ticino

Switzerland

Lombard

Street names

A bilingual road sign in Vinheul (Vignolo)

A bilingual road sign in Vinheul
A bilingual road sign in Vinheul

A bilingual road sign in Vinheul (Vignolo), in western Piedmont. Sign is in Italian and Piedmontese, with the digraph nh written according to Occitan orthography. Photo taken in 2011, September. Many thanks to Karla for granting permission of using this image.

A bilingual warning notice in Zernez (Gr, CH)

Bilingual warning notice in Zernez (Gr, CH): "Doors open and close automatically".
Bilingual warning notice in Zernez (Gr, CH): "Doors open and close automatically".

Bilingual Romansh/German warning notice in Zernez (Graubünden, Switzerland): "Doors open and close automatically". Photo taken in 2011, August.

A bilingual road sign in the Padanian lowlands

Bilingual road sign in Carvensà
Bilingual road sign in Carvensà

A bilingual road sign -Italian and Lombard- in Carvensà (Calvenzano), in the Padanian lowlands. Photo taken in 2011, August.

A bilingual road sign in Büsti Grandi (Busto Arsizio)

A bilingual road sign in Büsti Grandi (Busto Arsizio)
A bilingual road sign in Büsti Grandi (Busto Arsizio)

A bilingual road sign in Büsti Grandi (Busto Arsizio), near Milan Malpensa airport. Sign is in Italian and Lombard. Photo taken in 2011, August.

Lake Sils

Lej da Segl (Lake Sils)
Lej da Segl (Lake Sils)

Ley de Selh (Lake Sils), Graubünden (Grisons), Switzerland. Public domain image from Wikmedia Commons. Name of the lake in current Romansh orthography (closer to the German one): Laj da Segl

Il Lai da Segl è in lai alpin en il Chantun Grischun en Svizra. El sa chatta sin territori da las vischnancas da Segl e Stampa. Geograficamain sa chatta il lai en la val principala da l'Engiadin'Ota. Politicamain tutga radund la mesadad dal lai tar la Bregaglia, numnadamain tar la vischnanca da Stampa... Go on reading the Romansh wikipedia article or Read the English one.

Elements of sociolinguistics of Padanian

One of the variants of Padanian is an official language: Romansh, in the Swiss canton of the Grisons. Ligurian is taught in the schools in Monaco (Ethnologue, 2009); Friulian and Dolomitic Ladin are "protected" in Italy (Italian law 482/99, see Gazzetta Ufficiale n. 297 [1999]).

References
References

References

Bec, Pierre Manuel pratique de philologie romane. A. & J. Picard, Paris, 1970.

Clivio, Gianrenzo Storia linguistica e dialettologica piemontese, Ca dë Studi Piemontèis, Turin, 1973

Ethnologue Ethnologue reports for Emilian/Romagnol, Friulan, Istriot, Ligurian, Ladin, Lombard, Piedmontese, Romansh, Venetan (2009, available at the URL's:

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=eml

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=fur

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ist

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lij

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lld

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lmo

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=pms

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=roh

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=vec )

Gasca Queirazza, G.; Clivio, G. P. & Passero, D. La letteratura Piemontese, dalle origini al Settecento Ca dë studi Piemontèis, Turin, 2003

Gazzetta Ufficiale Norme in materia di tutela delle minoranze linguistiche storiche, Gazzetta Ufficiale della Repubblica Italiana n. 297, Roma, 1999

Haiman, John Haiman and Benincà, Paola The Rhaeto-Romance Languages (Romance Linguistics S.). Routledge (Taylor & Francis), London, 1992.

Hull, Geoffrey The linguistic unity of northern Italy and Rhaetia. PhD thesis, University of Sydney, 1982.

Hull, Geoffrey Polyglot Italy. Cis Educational, Melbourne, 1989.

Jaber, K.; Jud, J. Sprach und Sachatlas Italiens und der Südschweiz Zofingen: Ringier & Co. (1933)

Jacques Leclerc. Italie, dans l'aménagement linguistique dans le monde , Québec, TLFQ, Université Laval, April 2010.

Clifford S. Jr. Leonard. Proto-Rhaeto-Romance and French. Language, 40(l):23-32,1964.

Meneghin, Claudi Rebuilding the rhaeto-cisalpine written language: guidelines and criteria, part 1: Ors-orthography. Ianua, 7, 2007.

Meneghin, Claudi Rebuilding the rhaeto-cisalpine written language: guidelines and criteria, part 2. morphology 1: noun, article and personal pronoun. Ianua, 8, 2008.

Meneghin, Claudi Rebuilding the rhaeto-cisalpine written language: guidelines and criteria, part 3. morphology, 2: adjectives, pronouns, invariables. Ianua, 9, 2009.

Meneghin, Claudi Rebuilding the rhaeto-cisalpine written language: guidelines and criteria, part 4. morphology, 3: the verb. Ianua, 10, 2010.

Meneghin, Claudi Rhaeto-cisalpine at a glance, vol. 1 (LINCOM Studies in Romance Linguistics 65), Lincom Europa, München, 2010 ISBN-13 978-3895862083

Meneghin, Claudi Rhaeto-cisalpine at a glance, vol. 2 (LINCOM Studies in Romance Linguistics 68), Lincom Europa, München, 2011 ISBN-13 978-3862880676

Moretti, Bruno; Picenoni, Mathias & Stavridou, Marianthe Ricostruire il continuum romanzo nella realtà quotidiana; come comunicano i bregagliotti con i romanci sul confine linguistico in: Italica Raetica Gallica, Studia linguarum litterarum artiumque in honorem Ricarda Liver, P.Wunderli, I. Werlen & M Grünert (editors), Basel, Francke, 2001

Osservatori. Osservatori Regjonâl de Lenghe e de Culture Furlanis, 2002, La grafie uficiâl de lenghe furlane, 2002a

Osservatori. Osservatori Regjonâl de Lenghe e de Culture Furlanis, 2002, Formis gramaticâls, 2002b

Petrini, Dario La koinè Ticinese, Bern, Francke, 1988

Schmid, Heinrich Ãber randgebiete und Sprachgrenzen,. Vox Romanica, XV, 1956.

Schmid, Heinrich Richtlinien für die Gestaltung einer gesamtbünderromanischer Schriftsprache Rumantsch Grischun, Cuira, Lia Rumantscha, 1982

Schmid, Heinrich Wegleitung für den Aufbau einer gemeinsamen Schriftsprache der Dolomitenladiner, Istitut Cultural Ladin "Micurá de Rü", Istitut Cultural Ladin "Majon di Fashegn", 1994

Toso, Fiorenzo Grammatica del genovese - Varietà urbana e di koiné, Recco, Le Mani - Microart's edizioni, 1997

Trumper, John Ricostruzione nell'Italia settentrionale. sistemi consonantici. Considerazioni sociolinguistiche nellea diacronia, in Problemi della ricostruzione in linguistica, atti del convegno internazionale di studi, Raffaele Simone e Ugo Vignazzi editors, Rome, Bulzoni, 1977

von Wartburg, Walther Die Ausgliederung der romanischen Sprachräume. Bern, Francke, 1950.

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This newsletter aims at spreading updates in English about the Padanian culture, meant in the broadest sense. The proper language of the Padanian cultural domain is Padanian, or Rhaeto-Cisalpine, a western Romance language.

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Friulian bilingual signs

Friulian bilingual traffic signs. Derivative of public domain images from Wikimedia Commons.

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      tahirmahmood 4 years ago

      nice

    • joanferrer profile image

      joanferrer 5 years ago

      fascinating! for a catalan speaker this makes very interesting reading. my British wife was taught in school that there are 5 romance languages - French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian! Catalan has more speakers than Danish, Gaelic or Icelandic. It seems there are so many more languages derived from Latin than is commonly accepted. The French have always been very keen to rub out anything other than the Northern French they speak now (far less beautiful than Occitane and its 5 dialects of provençal, aquitaine, limousin, auvergnat and oc in my opinion), partly as part of the north's efforts to rub out the Cathars and grab all the southern land as a reward from the pope in the process.

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      anonymous 5 years ago

      That looks like to be very interesting. Thanks.

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      pawpaw911 5 years ago

      Very well done. The purple star is well deserved.

    • profile image

      guetzli 5 years ago

      This page is very well done. Congratulations for this scientific account.

    • Padaneis profile image
      Author

      Padaneis 5 years ago

      @nephthys lm: Many thanks for your kind comment. Yes: that science is... linguistics! Best wishes.

    • nephthys lm profile image

      nephthys lm 5 years ago

      There's a science of language?

      And here I am thinking I'm smart because I can read Russian but not know what it means.

    • madoc profile image

      madoc 5 years ago

      A great set of lenses. Thanks.

    • profile image

      anonymous 5 years ago

      Wow, this is an impressive lens! I'm afraid I must admit I had never heard of Padanian before reading your lens.

    • Steve Dizmon profile image

      Steve Dizmon 5 years ago from Nashville, TN

      Interesting. It proves that Squidoo is full of fascinating information. Thanks for the lens and the effort in building it.

    • BuildABetterMouse profile image

      Steve and Annette 5 years ago

      What an indepth article! I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into your lenses and into this topic. Thank you.

    • LaraineRoses profile image

      Laraine Sims 5 years ago from Lake Country, B.C.

      I found this fascinating! Angel blessing.

    • PNWtravels profile image

      Vicki Green 5 years ago from Wandering the Pacific Northwest USA

      I had never heard of the Padanian language - fascinating!

    • profile image

      Traceeshobbies 5 years ago

      Wow so much to learn!

    • viscri8 profile image

      viscri8 5 years ago

      Blessed! Very Interesting and emotional to read about languages so little known -- it nakes one think of the people of cultures that are so vulnerable to the changes of history.

    • Inkhand profile image

      Inkhand 5 years ago

      A fascinating lens.

    • bharat01 profile image

      bharat01 5 years ago

      Very Nice Lens with the great info, thanks for sharing with us.......:)

    • BunnyFabulous profile image

      BunnyFabulous 5 years ago from Central Florida

      Had never heard of this language. You're very thorough in your explanation of it. Thanks for helping me learn something new. :)

    • profile image

      sangrinad 5 years ago

      Always updated! Congratulations.

    • globedancer profile image

      globedancer 5 years ago

      Awesome lens - well researched! Keep it coming!

    • JoleneBelmain profile image

      JoleneBelmain 5 years ago

      There sure is a lot of info in here wow!! Great lens :)

    • sousababy profile image

      sousababy 6 years ago

      This certainly is fascinating, I must let Puerdycat know . . this might be something of great interest to her. Hope it helps! Sincerely, Rose

    • HeatherTodd1 profile image

      HeatherTodd1 6 years ago

      Thanks for the great post..nice post

    • TonyPayne profile image

      Tony Payne 6 years ago from Southampton, UK

      This is a great resource for anyone wanting to know more about the Padanian Language. I have to admit much of it went straight over my head though. Blessed by an angel.

    • dahlia369 profile image

      dahlia369 6 years ago

      Nicely done lens & helpful resource. ***Angel blessed*** :)

    • profile image

      celeBritys4africA 6 years ago

      Never heard before. So much history. Thank you.

    • profile image

      sharoncooper 6 years ago

      Nice lens with the full of information, good job done

    • cwkerns lm profile image

      cwkerns lm 6 years ago

      Great lens. Very informative.

    • tobydavis profile image

      tobydavis 6 years ago

      Fantastic amount of detail and information in this lens - great to see! Well done! :-)

    • thesuccess2 profile image

      thesuccess2 6 years ago

      Languages are so interesting.

    • junecampbell profile image

      June Campbell 6 years ago from North Vancouver, BC, Canada

      I had not previously heard of this language. Thanks for the info.

    • profile image

      anonymous 6 years ago

      Learned something about the Padanian language today.

    • profile image

      Jerrad28 6 years ago

      I have never heard of the Padanian Language before, it sounds very interesting!

    • blessedmomto7 profile image

      blessedmomto7 6 years ago

      I had never heard of this. Learned something new today.

    • profile image

      Runnn 6 years ago

      Wonderful lense...

    • Krafick profile image

      Krafick 6 years ago

      Great job. Rafick

    • UKGhostwriter profile image

      UKGhostwriter 6 years ago

      Really interesting, well done!

    • davidber profile image

      davidber 6 years ago

      Really nice lense, I live near there ;)

    • profile image

      anonymous 6 years ago

      Very well written and interesting lens! I love studying languages and their variations, origins and dialects.

    • profile image

      chrispell017 6 years ago

      interesting lens.. all new to me. very informative

    • profile image

      anonymous 6 years ago

      Certainly good to know information. Thank you.

    • sukkran trichy profile image

      sukkran trichy 6 years ago from Trichy/Tamil Nadu

      a lens with educational value. ~blessed by a squid angel~

    • sukkran trichy profile image

      sukkran trichy 6 years ago from Trichy/Tamil Nadu

      first time heard about padanese. really an interesting read. thanks for these valuable info.

    • chezchazz profile image

      Chazz 6 years ago from New York

      Extremely interesting. Thanks for the education!

    • kathysart profile image

      kathysart 6 years ago

      Wow.. very impressive lens.. congrats!

    • traveller27 profile image

      traveller27 6 years ago

      Languages are fascinating, aren't they?

    • profile image

      sangrinad 6 years ago

      Always in progress! Congratulations.

    • profile image

      anonymous 6 years ago

      Congratulations for spreading scientific information on this difficult to deal issue. Some cases of Padanian dialects are affected by the so called language suicide since decades, so gathering and interpreting information is rather difficult. The fact that this subject is politicised in Italy makes things even more difficult. However this page shows the advantage of taking things scientifically.

    • ajgodinho profile image

      Anthony Godinho 6 years ago from Ontario, Canada

      Nice work on this well-crafted and unique lens. This is the first time I'm hearing about Padaneis...learned something new today...thanks! :)

    • ChrisDay LM profile image

      ChrisDay LM 6 years ago

      I'm really fascinated by language and wasn't aware until now of this gem. Thanks so much for your very clear presentation.

    • profile image

      bulgnais 6 years ago

      This page is really good and scientific. The debate about these things in Italy is always politically biased: it is refreshing to see an objective presentation. Thank you

    • profile image

      sangrinad 6 years ago

      Hello,

      perhaps a sharper map in the introduction would be nice: when printing, you cannot distinguish Padania form the rest of Europe. Many thanks.

    • mythphile profile image

      Ellen Brundige 6 years ago from California

      Fascinating. I studied Latin for years, and have an MA in classical languages, yet I had not heard of Padanian at all.

      Blessed, since you taught me something!

    • ZenandChic profile image

      Patricia 6 years ago

      Nicely done lens!

    • profile image

      sangrinad 6 years ago

      Well, it seems that now Hull's "La lingua Padanese" is available! Thank you so much and bets wishes.

    • profile image

      anonymous 6 years ago

      So we Padanian people have a common language, or at least an "underlying" one. In fact I cannot seìay that I fully understand speakers of another dialect, but if we want to communicate and not to use Italian, communication is easier. But what can we do now against the war declared on our culture? I don't think Lega Nord to be a solution, for it seems now an Italian party: sorry if this offends you ore someone else, I aplogise. Sure, the other parties are even more "Italian" than Lega Nord. But probably this is not the point, the realk point is the language. Many thanks for this interesting page anyway.

    • profile image

      reasonablerobby 6 years ago

      I find languages fascinating, especially etymology. I was tutored in German whilst working in my twenties by a lady who was involved in repatriating RAF pilots after WW2, I learned more about English during that experience than ever before, and was surprised to learn about the linguistic work of the Grimm brothers. I had never heard of Padanian before now. Certainly an intriguing topic for doctoral work. I was interested too to read in your title 'scientific' and wondered which philosophical research position you see this topic from and their ontological and epistemological assumptions. Me? becoming increasingly comfortable with Critical Realism (Bhaskar et al)

    • Padaneis profile image
      Author

      Padaneis 7 years ago

      @FanfrelucheHubs: Many thanks to you for your kind interest!

      Studies in this language have been neglected in recent decades, essentially because many Padanian speakers lost interest in their own language, a phenomenon known by socio-linguists as "language suicide".

      This of course made most academics lose interest in the subject; also, money backing of Padanian studies vanished.

      Please, stay tuned on this lens, since there will be soon interesting news:

      1) I will try to set up a newsletter dealing with this language and its culture (many details are still to be defined), so close to continental European one;

      2) I will try to provide links to actual spoken examples of this language and its dialects, which have recently radio broadcast, a possible sign of renewd interest.

      Yet, the political establishment is -quite unfortunately- still hostile to this issue, with not always sound alleged motivations.

      3) I will add a short description of the legislative situation of each one of the dialects of the Padanian language.

      Best wishes!

    • FanfrelucheHubs profile image

      Nathalie Roy 7 years ago from France (Canadian expat)

      Before reading the title of your lens on the forum, I had never never heard of this dialect. Thank you for introducing us to it!

    • delia-delia profile image

      Delia 7 years ago

      Very interesting lens...it's amazing how many dialects of any language there are..nice informative lens.

    • profile image

      sangrinad 7 years ago

      Interesting updates! Thank you

    • profile image

      xilebo 7 years ago

      Like this page (I am the preceding user). However, it seems rather complicated to rate a page.

    • profile image

      bulgnais 7 years ago

      Very interesting approach: deciding when a dialect group is a separate language or not is always subject to an awful lot of political discussion. This time we have a scientific way of deciding about Padanian. I think more materials would be welcome!