real reality

1. 65

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   Here's some food for thought, (and discussion).
   
   Again, suppose IF...
   God DID, in fact create the known physical universe etc, that would make His reality/domain superior to ours. It would be (and according to scripture, IS) eternal. In which case, our world is temporal.
   That being said, our version of reality is only valid WITHIN our domain. It will all come to an end. We will come to and end.
   
   Conclusion.... The spirit realm is far MORE real. We, are but a vapor that vanishes in the morning sun.

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We as we know we, I do agree....
      
      But then vapor becomes rain and falls to earth again! The ebb and flow of temporal life. What a marvelous cycle.

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         Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         __________
         True, and with that being said, the Hebrew/Jews have always believed in reincarnation.

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   2. 89

      Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That may be true within the consequence field of your IF condition.
      But it doesn't justify the IF condition itself.
      
      Rather like, IF apples were arsenic, THEN eating apples would be fatal.

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      1. 65

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Must you be so technical?

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         1. 94

            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, of course.  That's how logic works.
            
            However, given the validity of your premise that God created the known universe, it does not automatically follow that His universe is superior, nor does it necessarily follow that ours is temporal and will end.  Perhaps He copied his universe when making ours and it, too, is eternal.  The only thing that does follow is that our version of reality is valid only within our universe.
            
            This makes your conclusion invalid as well; His universe is not necessarily MORE real than ours.

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               Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               _____________
               How could someone create a Universe and not be superior?

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               1. 94

                  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You misunderstand - it is not God that is assumed superior but rather His universe.  The OP states that because God made the universe it is inferior to his own but that is a false conclusion with nothing to back it.  It would be more likely that our universe is an exact copy of His - easier to copy than to create new.
                  
                  God's superiority is not mentioned at all by either the OP or myself.

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                  1. 79

                     pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     ......And if we assume that the holographic principle is correct what is in Gods Universe is also in ours and vice versa! Kinda like the universe is in a grain of sand.

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                  2. 0

                     Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     _________________
                     Where do you get your info. Where is it written that the universe is superior?

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         2. 89

            Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Only on Mondays!

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   3. 59

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...Leprechauns existed, we would all find pots of gold at the end of rainbows.
      
      
      
      Not neccessarily, often things are created to be superior from which they originated. How do you know our universe wasn't created to be superior?

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      1. 0

         Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         _________
         If this is superior, I'd hate to see the lesser

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         1. 59

            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I would disagree. Our world is awesome, beautiful and full of wonder.

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   4. 51

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you except that the Creator-God is only attributive; He is not a spirit; all spirits are His creation.

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      1. 65

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Here we go again.
         
         So, what EXACTLY do you say God is?
         
         We're anxious to know this new revelation of yours.

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         1. 51

            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It is not a new Revelation; it is mentioned in Quran.

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   5. 0

      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely I agree!
      At least....as long as you realize that our spiritual existence in this world carries over into that eternal world...

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2. 65

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   I'd like to answer two points here.
   God's realm being superior. If God is powerful enough to make a copy, He certainly can make a new, unique one.
   And two, we are lesser because not only each one of us die, but "SCIENTISTS", woo hoo, are saying that this planet is on a collision course with destruction. They just can't say when.
   Even our sun is supposed to burn out one day.
   Not very eternal, if you ask me.

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   1. 79

      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree that God's realm can be deemed as superior however that is not because I think our realm is inferior. More so because we don't seem to be fully aware of what is eternal in us or of what is eternal in that which is temporary.

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      1. 65

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Good point.
         There is a definite "eternal" component in us all.

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   2. 59

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, there are a lot of "If's" in your answers.
      
      
      
      So, why did your god create an earth and then put it on a collision course with destruction and make it such that the sun will eventually burn out? 

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      1. 65

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sin did that.
         
         One day all will be remade, without sin, and will no longer be subject to destruction.

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         1. 59

            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            LOL!
            
            
            
            My sides are a splittin'. Hilarious stuff.

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            1. 0

               klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Stop laughing!

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               1. 65

                  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  YEAH.
                  Stop laughing!
                  
                  
                  Your giving me stitches.
                  

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               2. 59

                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Sorry, but I can't help it after reading that answer. In about 5 billion years our sun is expected to come to the end of its life, the earth will be burnt to a cinder in that time.
                  
                  And, god did this because of sin.

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         2. 0

            Revive@OwnRiskposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Unless, of course, the idea of sin is really a lie, and that this temporal world is an illusion. A Course in Miracles states that "nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists." In this "reality" there is no sin, only experiences which lead to course corrections, ultimately causing awareness and an "awakening" to God.
            
            That seems a lot more rational than the superstitious, erroneous traditions of most all religions.

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3. 72

   getitriteposted 13 years ago

   It is possible that a God or superior entity created our realm, but to presume that the God of the bible had anything to do with this requires prehistoric thinking.

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   1. 65

      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You better brush up on pre-history. (whatever that is).

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      1. 72

         getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Meaning what?
         
         
         
         Are you implying that the term makes no sense or...
         
         Are you asserting that there is no such thing as pre-history, because Goddunit? 
         
         Everything except the belief in God seems to be held to the highest scrutiny.    What a confusing nonsensical approach to an argument.

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         1. 65

            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Why not apply that "highest scrutiny" to the Biblical accounts, their accuracy and validity, also?
            You might be surprised to find a better and more balanced view than the one you currently hold.
            
            If you accept pre-history, why deny history? Not very logical to me?

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            1. 72

               getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               A better view!
               
               When the bible is held to scrutiny, it crumbles under the weight of logic, making it an improbable account of history(and the future) to say the least.
               
               
               
               It's according to what the word history is applied to.  The bible is not history, but a bunch of made up stories, told to an ignorant, fearful population.
               
               The bible requires willful ignorance just in order to believe the nonsensical stories contained in it.  To me it is very logical to deny it as an accurate and valid history of humankind.

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               1. 65

                  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanx for clearing that all up for me.
                  
                  You almost had me convinced you're right.
                  
                  
                  I have NO doubt you have your logical reasons for dismissing the Bible.
                  God forbid you should be accountable to a higher power! (IE God).
                  We couldn't have that, could we now?

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                  1. 72

                     getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You're welcome, but I know you will dig in even deeper, now, into psychotic delusion.
                     
                     
                     
                     I'm aware that the powerful psychotic delusion you are under is resistant to ALL reason.   
                     
                     
                     
                     I'm not fearful and weak, like psychotic believers are. 
                     There is no God, and your threats mean absolutely nothing to me.
                     
                     And I think this debate with you should come to an end, as you are too far gone to sustain any sensible discourse.
                     
                     This is utterly absurd.

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                        h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        
                        
                        You think the debate should end? So you made yet another post...Logical?
                        You think it is absurd? Really?

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                        1. 72

                           getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                                                                              

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                  2. 59

                     Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Let's have a look at your line of reasoning as to why you accept the bible. You said:
                     
                     
                     
                     And, while I still haven't been able to stop laughing at your response, perhaps you can explain when this happened?
                     
                     According to Genesis, the sun would have had to have been created before god created man. Man was without sin because man wasn't created yet. Was it at this point that god decided to create the sun to burn out one day, thus ending our world or did he already know we would sin before he created us? He must have known if he is omniscient and knows everything.
                     
                     Or, did man sin and god didn't know about it and he then remade the sun to burn out, thus killing us all? If he didn't know we were going to sin, then he can't be omniscient.
                     
                     So many contradictions, so few explanations, according to the bible anyways. Perhaps, you can clear this up with your bible?

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                     1. 51

                        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree with you on this point.
                        
                        Sin is not hereditary; every human being on this glove is born innocent till one commits a sin and becomes a sinner.

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                        1. 58

                           Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I am sin free!

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                        2. 65

                           Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I used a glove when i committed most of my teenage sins

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   2. 79

      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How do you mean? How do you prehistorically think?

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      1. 72

         getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Never mind.  I am not going to spend my time debating semantics with you.  Give yourself five points, and move to the next round!

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         1. 79

            pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Ok if you say so!

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4. 58

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   getitrite wrote:
   It is possible that a God or superior entity created our realm,
   - - - - - - - -
   
      I am curious as to your resourses ??   OH !
   you don't have any
   
   
   getitrite wrote:
   but to presume that the God of the bible had anything to do with this requires prehistoric thinking.
   
   - - - - - - - -
   
     To presume that it didn't requires the same kind of thinking!

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   1. 72

      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I take it you mean sources, instead of resourses.
      
      Jerami, It is apparent that your only motivation is to cast anyone that opposes your nonsensical views as unlearned, unintelligent, or having no basis for their assertions.
      
      It is common logic that the possibility of the existence of a God can neither be proven or disproven.  Do you need some actual sources?
      Are you totally ignorant of that fact?
      
      
      
      Do you actually think about what you write before you write it?  This is absurd.

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      1. 62

         luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Jerami, It is apparent that your only motivation is to cast anyone that opposes your nonsensical views as unlearned, unintelligent, or having no basis for their assertions
         
         The pot calls the kettle black.

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      2. 58

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I read your post earlier and thought the same thing that luvpassion  stated.  I started to comment but thought
         
         Never mind.  I am not going to spend my time debating semantics with you.  Give yourself five points, and move to the next round!

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         1. 72

            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            So I guess we will all have to respect your psychotic worldview, and  agree:  Goddunit!
            
            And we will also have to respect my psychotic worldview that the existence of the biblical God is absurd.
            
            Thrilling to know that we are all psychotic.
            
                                     

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         2. 79

            pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Haha too funny! So what do we win with all these points going around? Can I redeem mine for a toaster?

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            1. 72

               getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               

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               1. 79

                  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So what are you meaning? I still want a toaster!

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            2. 58

               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I am wanting to save up all of my points and one day buy a mirror that we can all see ourselves clearly.
               
                  If we could see ourselves more clearly, we might not act the way that we do.

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               1. 79

                  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Can I still have a toaster? ...... Then again a mirror is probably more useful!

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                  1. 58

                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     i don't know ?  peanut butter and Jelly on  TOAST   stimulates my urges for self reflection.

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5. 58

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   getitrite wrote 
   Thrilling to know that we are all psychotic.
   
   
      There Ya go ,,   Now You'r starting to get it.

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6. 51

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   I appreciated two observations of our friend getitrite:
   
   
   1.    It is possible that a God or superior entity created our realm, but to presume that the God of the bible had anything to do with this requires prehistoric thinking
   
   
   
   2.    When the bible is held to scrutiny, it crumbles under the weight of logic, making it an improbable account of history (and the future) to say the least.
   
   I agree that with mere logic one cannot fully comprehend the Creator-God Allah YHWH; bare logic could lead one to the maximum stage that there “should be” a creator of this Universe and the Life in it; and cannot take us to the point that there “is” a Creator-God Allah YHWH.
   
   Regarding the pre-historic or historic thinking; to me Christians cannot prove the historicity of Jesus and/ or Bible. The same way; the Atheists cannot prove at that past point of time historicity of the first ever Atheist that might have existed.
   
   Both points of view lack historicity and hence are mythical, in a sense.
   
   Another point; the Creator-God Allah YHWH is neither a physical being nor a spiritual being but is only attributive; all physical and spiritual things are His creation.

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   1. 79

      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Good points!

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7. 89

   Paragliderposted 13 years ago

   O wad some Power the giftie gie us
   To see oursels as ithers see us!
   
   (If you don't recognise that, google it, for one of the best of Burns's poems).

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8. 70

   maven101posted 13 years ago

   Nietzsche has said when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks back at you. I take that to mean when you look at something long enough, something totally alien to your values or prejudices, you carry a part of that with you.. This can be either positive or negative, but the stronger the emotions, the more heated the passions, the more likely we are to retain some aspect of that deep abyss...So it is with reality...looking at alternate realities piles layers of skepticism, of contrary questioning, a sense of doubt that questions ANY reality...
   I agree with Camus; life is absurd...

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9. 0

   Home Girlposted 13 years ago

   Everybody stop sinning, NOW!
   

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   1. 58

      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I just can't stop it.
         I tried a few times; ...
         couldn't quite accomplish my expectations.

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