Should Handgun Permit Holders be allowed to carry on college campuses?

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Longhunterposted 13 years ago
Here in Tennessee, crime on and around college campuses has been in news lately. One school, MTSU, had a student murdered by her own roommate. Another student was shot in the hand by a former student during an altercation in the parking lot.

College campus crime is a problem nationwide. The shootings at Virginia Tech is another prime example.

Given what appears to be a rise of crime in and around college campuses, should law-abiding Handgun Carry Permit Holders be allowed to carry their weapon on campus?
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why not? All the criminals are going to do it anyway.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Given the amount of alcohol on college campuses, what's your opinion with that factored in? Maybe staff only can carry? Everyone with a permit except students maybe.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think Plaxico Burress will be carrying a Glock anytime soon?
  
  Tough laws, effectively enforced are a strong deterrent to illegal gun ownership.
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html
  
  More guns equals less crime. Of course that statement should include that said guns be owned by trained and non violent citizens.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Says the spokesman for the most crime ridden country in the first world!
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Most of our "crime" is without a victim, Sir. We live in a nation with the highest incarceration rate in the world, but this is not because we as a people are more devious - it is because we build prisons at a profit, and the rich prosper from the warehousing of United States Citizens.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really, murder is a victimless crime!
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sir, I do not understand the way you behave in these forums. Why is it that you imply ridiculous things into someone's comments?
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do explain the homocide statistics I posted in my last post?
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize, superwags, for being unfamiliar with you or your posts. Without looking further into it - I would normally account for violence as a product of culture and economics, but mostly societal norms of acceptance. . .that should be unacceptable.
  
  But I can't see any way around the fact that if someone looks like they might be armed - they are less likely to get any hassle from violent thugs.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Unless of course the violent thugs are looking to increase their armoury!
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How often do gun stores get robbed during business hours, hmm???
  
  Fear mongering is for the fearful. You don't have to have a gun to be confident - but projecting fear onto common people and inanimate objects is just silly.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then stop doing it, right now!
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  Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dude, you always reply with the most off the wall nonsense. I guess I'd have to understand troll speak to get it.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Tough.
  
  Actually, it's probably as a result of communicating with some people on these forums.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Guns on college campus'? Only if all the students can be garanteed passing grades and perfect social encounters. Columbine was students shooting students and teachers.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Appologies, I meant to say post, rather than thread.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As a side note and since I'm getting some postings that are more AT me rather than TO me, I write articles on gun rights locally and, since this is a growing issue nationwide, I thought I would ask the question here on HubPages.
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...YES!
  Qwark
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  NFW.
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BillyDRitchieposted 13 years ago
Yes, they should. I have to keep going back to that whole pesky Second Amendment thing....
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Billy, you puzzle me, you are strongly anti abortion and strongly pro gun!
  
  Homicide by gun was about 54,000 in the year 2000, that's 54,000 living breathing and functioning human beings whose lives have been ended and yet you fully support that.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  John, if more people took their personal protection seriously and legally carried a gun, how many of those 54,000 homicides would have been changed to self defense with the potential murderer being killed instead?
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good question Longhunter.
  
  How many of those 54,000 murders would have been changed to assault if neither party had been armed?
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would depend on who was the bigger of the pair or who could run the fastest. Since criminals don't go after bigger people than themselves and are usually armed with at least a knife, I'll stick to carrying my gun.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think that not one of the 54,000 were armed?
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What sort of a country are you that sees a need for students attending a place of learning to be armed?
  Good grief, what possible reason could there be? A bullet to the head for a student late with his assignment?
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not, John, but these students must walk to and from their vehicles or dorms. We recently had a local college put on lock down because of crimes taking place just off campus. It was feared the criminal had gone onto campus. What about the kid who isn't in a building and can't get in one?
  
  To me, college is a place you're suppose to attend to LEARN and in some cases (my son's) piss away a large sum of your parent's money. It shouldn't be a place of crime and fear but it's becoming that. How do we combat the problem?
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not easily and not within the scope of this forum.
  But talking and questioning is a start.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which is what I'm doing. Unfortunately, crime on campuses is a problem. One that I think needs to be addressed before another student gets murdered like the we had happen here.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't even know where to start with how wrong that post is!!!
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhh, come on, Superwags, give it a try. As I've stated this is a debate just starting up here in Tennessee and I'm having a hard time deciding if it's a good or bad idea. In some ways, yes. In others, no. Lets see your opinion. Convince me.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aghhhh come on Longhunter !! answer my post before you demand others to give their opinion ! What part of semi-literate, gang culture, drunks do you argue against - I got my info about Tennessee Uni from a Tennessee semi-literate drunken student next door - here in China recently !
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Recommend1, as the father of a college student, I lean much more toward students NOT being allowed to carry but for college staff being able to.
  
  What would you say to that?
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I suspect I'm not going to convince you and I'll be here a while. A profile pic with a rifle in it isn't of great encouragement!
  
  I'm not an american, I'm a brit. We have ery tight gun laws and can not believe what we see across the pond. I mean, it staggers us!
  
  You are 27 times more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than in the UK. 27!
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you are far less likely to be able to protect yourself from a gun-toting mad man in the UK than here in the USA. Across the pond, we're able to protect ourselves instead of having to wait minutes when seconds count for the police to show up.
  
  As for my profile pic, it's a portrait I did of my son portraying a longhunter, the ones who fought in the colonial militias of the Revolutionary War. The gun he's holding, that you obviously don't like, is a BRITISH-MADE Second Model Brown Bess Musket.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't mind a bit... presumably it was made in the 18th century. Just before you precious ammendment was written. Three centuries ago. When people still burned witches, Australia wasn't discovered and Napoleon had just been born.
  
  I don't get your point, people aren't trained to deal with mad men even if they have a gun on them. The police are. In fact this is born out by stats from the US too where the police have killed one person a day on average since 1985 - there are usually 3 fatal police shootings in the UK each year. In fact the police don't carry guns here.
  
  There are around 10,000 gun homocides (excluding the police ones mentoned earlier) each year in the US, last year there were 42 in Britain.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll admit America does have her problems, superwags. Crime is one of it's biggest. However, gun laws such as the ones you have in the UK wouldn't work here. They would only serve to disarm law-abiding citizens, making them a bigger target for an ever increasing criminal element. If our government would do more to fight crime the way it should be fought, I personally would be happy to put away my gun. Not give it up. Just put it away. Until then, I'll carry and, I feel, be safer for it.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  With respect, it seems that you've got yourselves into a bit of a mess with regards to gun laws. Do you think that the second ammendment is a valid starting point today?
  
  Having non-existent gun laws allows some pretty hefty weapons to be legally built and sold in the US. And the gun murder rate is higher per capita than Yemen's. It can't be a healthy situation?
  
  If you make carrying weapons illegal then only criminals will carry them and therefore be easily prosecuted by the law. Just switch carrying a handgun to being as bigger crime as smoking pot! Balance the prisons' books!
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "If you make carrying weapons illegal then only criminals will carry them and therefore be easily prosecuted by the law."
  
  Having been one that stared down the muzzle of a gun, this is, respectfully, a horribly asinine remark. What you're saying is we can then just add on the crime of having a gun to the murder charge. In the mean time, the victim is still dead. I don't want to be the victim to begin with so I carry a gun to protect myself and my family.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, if you are arrested in the UK carrying handgun or (usually) a knife, you will be gaoled. Simple. This is how the vast majority of developed countries operate.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  For how long are they "gaoled?"
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Five years, though that has been watered down by the judiciary.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It depends on the offence, but for carrying gun it will incure a minimum manditory sentence.
  
  In gaol (you can't nick our language and then change a word when we're not looking!).
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where I come from in Australia if you are seen carrying a gun anywhere in the city, you will get the full treatment.
  
  In minutes you will have a dozen police units and a helicopter in your face.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Same here, it'd be a major incident, and you'd get a minimum 5 year sentence just for carrying it. And I've got to say, I feel a hell of a lot safer for it.
  
  This is the same in the UK, Ireland and most of Europe (the Swiss and the Finns being notebale exceptions), as well as you Antipodeans. The Swiss and the Finns have by far and away the highest gun homicide rate per capita incidentally in Europe...
  
  That image isn't too good, but it's from a 2005 study looking at gun ownership vs gun murders. The US are way out in front, the swiss are next, the finns after them.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks mate, that was informative.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Sounds painful.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is!
  
  You should see where they put the pointy end of the landing skids!
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  stclairjackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  comparing britain ans the US's crime rate with numbers rather than percentages is a bit assinine.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't initially - I said that gun deaths (homocides) are 27 times higher in the USA than the UK. Though those stats show it to be higher than I initially stated. The overall murder rate is around 5 times higher too.
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  stclairjackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  what can i say, we are an angry people! ha!
  
  our nation has become juvinile and impulsive,... untill we gro up as a nation this will continue to be a problem.
  
  rational responable productive adults should not be punished for the actions of those that are less than this at best,.... its akin to making the entire 1st grade class put thier heads on thier desks for the actins of one,.. and equaly foolish to not expect the same type of scool yard retribution that the punishment enchorages by its very nature.
  
  perhaps we will eventualy reach at least a junior high level of civilty in our country once again,..... nope,..... congress is still chanting "i know you are but what am i?"
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As you understand it, which of course is not the way legal scholars including those who sit on the Supreme Court understand it.
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superwagsposted 13 years ago
No, absolutely not. The USA is mental.
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manlypoetrymanposted 13 years ago
A Curiousity : Who would be to blame if a physcho-nut job wakes up one day...and decides his life has no meaning...so he must therefore kill alot of young people in the prime of their life...to bring meaning back into his own life or before committing suicide...and then some Law-Abiding Hand Gun Carrying Permit Holder just happens to be in a position to end the phsyco-nut job's rampage. Who is to blame for the tragedy?
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The psycho-nut job, of course. Is it your opinion it would be the "Law-Abiding Hand Gun Carrying Permit Holder?"
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  manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No...Absolutely Not...But I am sure someone will go off on the Law Abiding citizen...for some irrational reason. That is why I wrote it like that. It wasn't aimed at you. I figured with a name like LongHunter...you would be inclined to have rational thought along the do's and don'ts of of responsible gun ownership.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do have rational thought about the do's and don'ts of responsible gun ownership. I've handled guns all my life. Well, at least the last 42 years of it, anyway.
  
  Unfortunately, this subject has been a tough one for me. In some ways, I do believe HCP holders should be allowed to carry on campus. However, when it comes to alcohol and the amount of it on most campuses, I have a really hard justifying it.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I see your concern.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The citizen would have little to no chance of taking out the psycho. In most states, no training is required to own a gun. The overwhelming majority of gun owners have no meaningful experience that would allow them to react correctly to an attack. (shooting a man who is spraying bullets from his Glock 19 is not the same as shooting a stationary paper target).
  
  Police officers who get 100 hours a year of training for such situations miss their targets with 4 out of 5 bullets when they get into an actual battle.
  
  How well do you think Jimmy McDimwit would do?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree that to take on a psycho nut job firing from a Glock 19...and expecting results with out proper training is a severe disadvantage. But given the situation, where it is you vs. the gun man...I like the odds a whole lot better...then waiting for the police to show up. Did not civilians help take down the Tucson shooter while he was reloading?
  
  How much would their chances have increased with the ability to neutralize the shooter before he reloads? if it boils down to life and death...there is a huge amount of evidence that has proven what people are able to do in an emergency. Your Heart pumps stronger, your lung capacity increases, adrenaline kicks in, and time even slows down...anything is possible. I like the odds a lot better against a shooter with having a gun, then standing there at his mercy, and preparing to take a round.
  
  Besides....many of these young shooter nut jobs who have been at the College and High School age level...haven't had much training with a weapon either. Some have...like the Sniper back at UT Austin years ago. He was a trained sniper.
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BobbiRantposted 13 years ago
YES!!!!!!! Students would probably shoot professors who give them a bad grade and the way college students party, we all know alcohol and guns are a Good mix!!!!!!

In Illinois, where I once lived, a guy killed his neighbor with machete for stealing his lawn ornament, he should have had a gun? THAT was a good reason? I'm convinced the world is nuts!
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is a debate that's beginning here in Tennessee and around the country. Alcohol is very prevalent on college campuses and one of the major reasons that I, a handgun carry permit holder, wrestle with whether or not allowing HCP holder to carry on campus is a good idea.
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recommend1posted 13 years ago
What a moronic question.

Should a bunch of steroid pumped semi-literates who hang out in gangs to protect themselves from each other and think that getting drunk is a 'manly' thing to do - be allowed to carry guns on campus ??

You are totally bonkers old chap
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why, thank you, old boy!!!
  
  I see you live and work in China. Now there's a really free and open society. I personally would rather live with the threat of crime here in the States and carry a gun legally than live under the rule of a Communist government where your freedoms are what they say they are. But that's just my humble, American opinion.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You should be humble with those kind of ideas old boy. Nobody was talking about China until you thought to bring it up to try and divert attention from your ridiculous comments. I can't think you actually believe that nonsense you are writing, I guess you are trying to wind us all up on a quiet Thursday huh !
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all, recommend1. This is a debate that's ongoing here in my state and others. I have my pros and cons about it and simply wanted some "constructive" input. Do you have any or just insults, old boy? Convince me.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't that precisely the argument for allowing those, whom you pigeon hole, to carry fire arms? After all, what better way to select these defectives from the gene pool? Does your characterization of college students include those at Harvard, Columbia and Yale?
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I am DB Cooperposted 13 years ago
Should gun rights groups like the NRA be backing something like this? Hormonal, steroid-using, drunk college students are not a group I would want to promote responsible gun ownership.
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recommend1posted 13 years ago
Just to lighten this depressingly moronic thread a bit - I couldn't let this typo slip by:

There are around 10,000 gun homocides (excluding the police ones mentoned earlier) each year in the US, last year there were 42 in Britain.

Seems it is terminally dangerous to be gay these days huh !
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Seems it is terminally dangerous to be gay these days huh !
  
  WHAT??? Where the hell did "gay" come into this??? Lets try getting back to the 'depressingly moronic thread,' shall we.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HOMOcides.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay. I didn't see the typo before. My bad.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago
Statistics indicate that 4 people have been murdered with firearms in the U.S. since this thread started.
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superwagsposted 13 years ago
Why do I keep writing "homocides"? Something suppressed there somewhere...
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Freudian slip
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ForeclosureDJensposted 13 years ago
personally i think no. there are far too many campus/school shootings that indicate having a handgun on campus is NOT a good idea. i believe too many people have handgun permits as it is. there are police with guns for a reason. it's one thing to have one at your house as protection, but to carry it around with you in public is dangerous and since you aren't trained on how to use it in public like police officers are, there's a greater risk when you're out with it.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Situation:
  You're in the restroom of a store. As you leave it, you see there's a robbery taking place and he shoots one of the customers. You step back in, knowing the robber saw you.
  
  What would you rather do:
  A. Call the police and hope they get there in time before the robber comes to get you. There's no lock on the door.
  
  B. Draw your gun, call the police, and know that if the robber does come to get you, you can protect yourself.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Also ensuring that if the thief is a better cooler shot than you you're dead?
  
  [the customer was shot for being a have a go hero]
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong, again, John. In answer B the man is on one knee concealed as best he can be with his gun pointed at the door. He's there for the duration. If the thief comes in, man shoots him. If he hears shots in the store, he stays where he is. Why? Because he's not a cop or a hero. It could be SWAT coming in to take down the thief for all he knows. Either way, he just wants to stay alive and is prepared to do so.
  
  Some would ask why the man would not attempt to save the others. Here's why. He has no idea how many there are. He's not a cop. It's not his job. He's just someone who's trained to protect himself and his family, not the general public. Would he regret it. Sure, but he would be alive.
  
  Too many times people who have tried to do the right thing have been sued for doing it because they made some panty-waste liberal cry in the process. Not me. I'll let the cops be the heros and stick to just protecting me and my family.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And then an old woman wanders in looking for the bog and ....bang, you blow her face off.
  
  If you don't mind me saying hunter, this is beginning to sound rather like a fntasy tht you've thought way too long about. This concerns me that you're thinking like this and taking a handgun to do the groceries....
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, no fantasy, superwags. Just making sure I know how to take care of myself and my family. At least I can. Your government has made sure you can't even from them.
  
  Yes, I do carry when I go to get groceries. I even carry when I go to bank and can legally do so unless there's a sign on the door which they're legally required to post if they don't HCP holders to carry inside. Of course, the thieves have this strange habits of not caring if there's a sign on the door.
  
  Face it. We Americans come from a society where we take care of ourselves and tell the government to get the hell out of the way if they try to do it for us. Well, at least most of us, anyway. Unfortunately, that sometimes requires the use of a gun because the criminals have them and won't give them up without a fight. At least we do have that option and our government hasn't made us defenseless and dependent. Although, there are some maggot politicians who would love to do just that.
  
  Until then, I'll continue to carry everywhere I'm legally allowed and won't go where I'm not. Guess what, that even includes church.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And do you think this is a good state of affairs? I'm not just being anti-american - you get a lot right that we don't - but there seems to be a contradiction in their somewhere. People taking guns to shops and churches cannot be healthy.
  
  I know that you americans are suspicious of having the government seemingly "interfering" in your everyday life. I mean they can't, you don't pay enough tax! But it does have its advantages.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is it a good state of affairs, no, of course not. But, it is what it is. I don't think you're being un-American anymore that I'm being anti-British. (If became president, one of the first things I'd do is go to London and humbly ask the Queen for the bust of Sir Winston Churchill back and display it prominently on my desk in the Oval Office.)
  
  Should guns be in church? NO! But neither should there be shootings in them either. My pastor knows I carry in church and he's okay with it. It's concealed so no one sees it.
  
  As for taxes, our president, you know the one who sent the Churchill bust back, is doing his best to tax every penny we have. The oppressiveness of our government is one of the main reasons why so many people went out and bought guns and ammo. Not to take it over but to protect ourselves from it if necessary.
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was completely unaware of the Churchill bust story (half American himself). Wasn't it Churchill who put down the Mau Mau revoluton in Kenya? Maybe that's it!
  
  Having said that, didn't Obama get "snubbed" from the upcoming royal wedding? (god, I sound like a gossip column suddenly).
  
  You've never seen taxes until you get to Europe. There's a thread on here asking for local gas/petrol prices oer gallon; I think it was around $4 in the US; it's over $10 here!
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I think Obama was snubbed but I guess they were trying to keep out the rif-raf. Personally, I'd told where to go and what he could do when got there.....to himself.
  
  As for gas prices, we're sitting on one of the biggest oil finds in history but won't go get it because of some crybaby tree huggers. It amazes me the level of stupidity in our government. At least it's not as bad as yours but it wouldn't surprise me if it gets there before we can kick NObama out.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think Obama was snubbed? No other heads of state have been invited, unless they are royalty or heads of ex colonies.
  I don't think Obama would have liked to be invited as a head of a former colony, do you
  
  Mind you, it could just be revenge for Raygun snubbing the last royal wedding
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To be honest, I really don't care if Obama was snubbed or not. Hey, it's a WIN-WIN. You don't have to look at him and Bernie Mac in drag trying to hog the camera and we win by not spending the money to send him there.
  
  Personally, I would love to be back in London right now, whether the wedding was happening or not.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is rather unfair to Bernie Mac.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or perhaps Katherine really didn't want an I-Pod full of Obama speeches and off teleprompter stammering.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Churchill's bust story is over two years old, one of Obama's first actions. Instead of removing it from his office and storing it he gave it back as if it was his to return to Britain. The president is a temporary occupant and everything in the White House belongs to the PRESIDENCY not to the current occupant.
  
  As to the Mau Mau revolt and Churhill's role - I thought Barry Soetoro was Indonesian not Kenyan.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As to the price of petroleum - the price there and the price here are both the product of government interference in the production and pricing in the market place. If government interference were removed petroleum would be more plentiful and cheaper. The "greenies" want it expensive to make you do as they wish - hardly a mark of liberty.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely right!
  
  I hate that the government forces record profits on Exxon execs!
  
  I want my country back.
  
  P.S. Great hubs.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely wrong! The price of oil is affected long term by increasing numbers of motor vehicles, by the increasing cost of drilling in more difficult areas (deeper water), by how wide Saudi Arabia is willing to open its spiggots to hold the price down and by Wall Street speculators.
  
  (It doesn't have much to do with permitting handguns on college campuses which is a truly dumb idea.)
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You mean drilling in in accessible places compelled by regulation as opposed to places easily used placed of limits by those same regulators? ANWAR, the continental shelf, the Destin Dome have all been placed off limits by government caprice not reason. The exact silliness about to claim the Bakken formation.
  
  The impact of OPEC is exaggerated by the timidity western governments have embraced regarding domestic production.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Profits reflect price, check the profit margin for oil companies. It is fine, you may get it one day.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No bucks = no Hubs
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I very much doubt it. A little cheaper perhaps but not by as much as the removed taxes. There would be no need for petrol to be much cheaper, we can only drive one car at a time, and most of us don't seem too restrained by the cost of fuel.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Demand for fuel is relatively inelastic, true, in so far as one can only reduce travel by that amount amenable to other means or elimination. There is a certain amount of travel by auto that cannot be replaced easily, however it is the impact that high fuel prices have on other consumption, production and pricing. As fuel prices rise that increased cost reduces flexibility in other consumption to the point of restraining economic activity in luxury pursuits such as grocery shopping, trips to the dentist, und so weiter.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But do you think that the oil companies really care about that?
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think the distant and impersonal government that restricts and interferes in energy production cares?
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  I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your gunman in the store scenario is not exactly an everyday occurrence. Robbers usually try to cut down on the hero factor by being as quick as possible. Get the money and get out. They tend to not stick around to shoot all the potential witnesses.
  
  I used to see fights every day in college, usually over really stupid things like cheating girlfriends, scuffed shoes, or someone walking too close to someone else's parked car. The one incident that led to serious injuries involved a guy dancing with the wrong girl at a packed bar and getting put into a coma by her boyfriend's friend. Guns were not allowed at this bar, nor should they be. The place gets too crowded for guns to be effective without putting innocent people at grave risk.
  
  Even if 99% of gun owners are responsible and not quick to reach for their lethal weapon, it's the juiced up minority that worries me on a college campus. I've found that there is a huge difference in maturity levels between a 30-year-old adult and a 20-year-old "young adult" college student.
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  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So basically he's hiding and the thieves are unaware of him!
  
  So what's the gun for?
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As stated in the situation above, "You step back in, knowing the robber saw you."
  
  Now do you know what the gun is for?
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Greek Oneposted 13 years ago
Yes, the should be armed!

What happens if their professor has a gun and decides to use it when someone gives an incorrect answer?
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just discussed this issue at my college, fortunately even if we have security, they have guns, cameras down every hall etc, if you allow us students to carry that gun, like my professor says, you decide to get pissed off because you get a bad grade, he is dead faster than security can get to us, and we can also be dead as well. It would only make matters worse for those that choose to fly off the handle for what ever reason.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you're that stressed over grades, perhaps some time off is needed.
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knolyourselfposted 13 years ago
Knew a laundromat owner a long time ago. He found a gang of kids breaking into his change machine and came out from in back with a rifle. They shot him dead. Apparently he wasn't prepared to use it.
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well that is the thing I can see carrying a gun in certain locations and towns that are highly dangerous, but there are certain places where a gun doesn't need to be in your purse or back pack in large crowded areas such as schools, churches, stadiums, etc. It's find if you are in a area that you know you need the protection around your home and someone invades it, or goes on your property, but if you just flat out want to carry a gun just for the sake of carrying one, losing control of your emotions, and out of anger kill someone like gangsters etc, and innocent people get killed, that just isn't right to be going to college, and get shot just because I'm trying to get an education and the person next to me decides they don't like something that was said or done and fire on my instructor and myself. Doesn't make me safe knowing anyone can carry a gun in my class room and decide to shoot me!
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm an outsider in all this, but I just think it's ludacris that people would carry guns around every day for the sheer hell of it. I can't understand the US gun laws in general - I understand their worth in the 1770's but surely not now.
  
  I just think of how many road rage incidents I see on my way to work each morning. Would someone having a gun in the car when they lose their heads, or feel threatened by someone else losing thier head be a good idea?!
  
  I've made the point earlier in the thread but there are 10,000 gun homicides each year in the US! 10,000! And because the police are always twitchy as a result; one person a day has died on average since 1985. This has got to be wrong?!
  
  I'm not saying that my own country has all the answers - there are lots of things the US gets right that we get wrong - but last year there were 42 gun deaths in the UK and 1 person shot by the police.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Every police officer I've talked to has said they're glad there are HCP holders out there. Not one has told me they don't like it. My son-in-law was the one who suggested I get my carry permit and he's a police officer. Police chiefs may not like HCP holders but they're also beholden to the mayor of their town. They tow the line of the mayor's office so they can keep their jobs.
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  Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  some might argue that we should arm the professors with bazookas.. you know, just to give them the edge in the lecture hall arms race
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knolyourselfposted 13 years ago
Never owned a gun myself. The one case where I thought I might feel better having one is out backpacking. Never had a problem but still. And if I lived in an isolated area. I remember the Black Panthers some of these guys carrying guns hanging from their rear view mirrors. Talk about looking for trouble.
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HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago
Yeap you are right superwags, one of my good friends brother and another girl at my school were both killed in road rage in michigan without a gun, just think if we do carry the gun too, which we already know gangsters in america do drive by shootings. We seem to think we need guns, and like you said the only purpose we really need one for is if you are hunter of animals. If we got rid of the guns for any other reason why would we need to have a gun in the first place for protection. If it wasn't so easy to get our hands on guns we wouldn't have school shootings, but since everyone in America feels the need to have one in their home, they get stolen, they go killing people on drugs and alcohol, they drive by shooting people over anger and territory such as gangs, children pick them up playing with them shooting each other on accident. We even had one man shoot a kid in my area because the kid went up to his door to apologize for his actions, and the man was so angry at teenagers in the neighborhood ended up killing him out of rage instead of realising the kid wanted to apologize. Another one in my community two teenagers were looking at a gun, and didn't know it was loaded and he killed his best friend on accident. A toddler even picked up a hand gun and killed another one. They seem to have to have their guns, because they want to protect themselves.
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HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago
Oh I don't believe in Guns, but there are some of my fellow Americans that insist they must carry a gun everywhere they go, because somehow the boogey man is going to get them. Rightfully so in some cities like detroit, or cities that are ran down where gangs are, the consensus is protect yourself. Rather than carry a gun, it would be more beneficial to move to another area in America than carry a gun! That is just my opinion. I know my own mother was threatened by one a few months ago because of a lunatic that goes on about having guns! He's a hunter. Just telling you the way they think they need one, but it really just is not necessary.
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  Longhunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I know it's not polite to ask a woman how old she is but I simply can't help it in this case. How old are you, Hattie?
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HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago
Oh again the argument about being raped too. lol Well being a girl, I know don't hang out in dark places at night alone. Don't go to bars alone. Don't get drunk or use drugs and end up in places you don't want to be. If you want to protect yourself get smart, avoid certain situations.
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HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago
Yeah, ha ha, probably why I'm working on moving to the Netherlans with my boyfriend. Just agree with you guys and Europeans on a lot of issues all the way down the line. He says the same thing in the Netherlands they don't have this issue with guns! I have hung out with so many other cultures online the last few years I understand that America needs to get a clue. Of course my family has always been military , and i respect it for that reason, but for the last century, our society has really lost it! lol Even just since my grandfather was younger, they had more morals, values, and ethics than they do at the present moment. I just am being what my grandfather taught me be a true American and be an advocate for causes. He was in wwii in shot in belgium, did a lot for our country, but he would say the same thing in this point in time, the generations from the 60's till now have done a lot of good things, and made a disaster out of many others. It really is pathetic!
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  superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You've chosen a bad time to write that actually, there was a massacre just outside of Utrecht last weekend - five murdered by a nutter with a rifle.
  
  That said, apart from the odd isolated incident, you are 20 times less likely to be murdered with a firearm in Holland.
  
  Holland's a really cool place, you should get yourself there!
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stclairjackposted 13 years ago
our nation (the US) a whole has become juvinile and impulsive,... untill we grow up as a nation, this will continue to be a problem.

if we dont have guns, we will run each other down with our cars, ... we detroy ourselves each day throuh impulsive childish indulgence,...

i want my gun because its truly part of my heritage where i live, i also want it to protect myself fom childish impulsive idiots..

and i have no qualms wih my ability or willingness to ue it propperly.
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  stclairjackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it would seem that i should also want a new keyboard in my notebook.
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Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago
If the college allows it, yes. If they don't, no.
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tritrainposted 13 years ago
In most states that allow conceal/carry permits it would be almost impossible to enforce, except in buildings, and even then signs are insufficient notice. In my state it requires that the carrier be told, a sign is not enough.
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Should Handgun Permit Holders be allowed to carry on college campuses?

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Should Handgun Permit Holders be allowed to carry on college campuses?

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