Karl Marx Sums Up Trickle-Down Economics

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   Sooner28posted 11 years ago

   "To say that "the worker has an interest in the rapid growth of capital", means only this: that the more speedily the worker augments the wealth of the capitalist, the larger will be the crumbs which fall to him, the greater will be the number of workers than can be called into existence, the more can the mass of slaves dependent upon capital be increased."
   
   "Finally, to say that "the most favorable condition for wage-labour is the fastest possible growth of productive capital", is the same as to say: the quicker the working class multiplies and augments the power inimical to it – the wealth of another which lords over that class – the more favorable will be the conditions under which it will be permitted to toil anew at the multiplication of bourgeois wealth, at the enlargement of the power of capital, content thus to forge for itself the golden chains by which the bourgeoisie drags it in its train."

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Some people own the company and some are employed by the company
      What's the problem?

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         JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         They make it a problem because it's not 'fair' or something like that.
         
         It's ridiculous, and it spits in the face of free markets.

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            Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Oh yeah, I forgot everybody has to get a trophy or feelings will get hurt.

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               JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Person A works at company B for $20/hr.
               Person B works at company B for $20/hr.
               
               Person A goes home and works on his own business.
               Person B goes home and plays xbox, watches TV, or goes out to dinner.
               
               Fast forward 5 years:
               
               Person A works for himself, for $150/hr.
               Person B works at company B for $22/hr.
               Person C works for person A for $15/hr.
               
               And yet, somehow, out of all of this... Person A is the one who comes out as the bad guy...

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                  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Jaxson, did you know that according to some miscreants and malcontents, being ambitious, achieving, and ultimately affluent is the NEW MORTAL SIN.   One is supposed to be poor, dependent, look to be rescued, and complain that THE POWERS THAT BE  are being callous and so exploitative.    GIVE ME A BREAK, what you have APTLY demonstrated is the REASON why SOME PEOPLE BECOME HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL and/or WEALTHY while some remain FOREVER POOR.  Everything is a choice.   
                  
                  Why isn't that people refuse to acknowledge this?    They WANT  but they do not wish to WORK for it!   God forbid that they work and make something out of their lives instead of demonizing the wealthier and the more highly ambitious among us!    This scenario is analogous to the A student constantly being derided by the C and D students-  hear the chants now, smarty pants, smarty pants!     There is only one word for this- ENVY!   ENVY of those who WORK SMART/HARD and achieve their GOALS!
                  
                  Furthermore, success also requires sacrifice.   Many people do not want to go the extra mile in order to be successful.   They do not want to return to school, go to seminars after work,  read some books,  and/or do extra projects while at work.    Oh no, they would rather go home watch tv and/or hang out with their friends, often complaining about their "dire" situation.   Well, it is not THAT DIRE, if it was, they would do something about it.    NEWS FLASH:   People are subconsciously happy with their socioeconomic situation, if they weren't, they would DO something about it!   Have a Good Night, Jaxson!

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                     Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Both posts are excellent. Is there a best of on this site? I would vote both best of!

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                  eternals3ptemberposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No one is thinking big enough. No one complains about the fuy who owns a small company. Billionaires. With a B. Not the upper middle class, not the people who went to college and became pretty successful. The "upper upper wow how many senators do you know?" what are the stocks in West African oil like right now class.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     zzzzzzzzzzz !

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                     PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I tried interjecting a discussion about values and ethics as it relates to the accumulation of wealth and and was met with a similar word problem.  Good luck.

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                  rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Person A works for himself, for $150/hr.
                  Person B works at company B for $22/hr.
                  Person C works for person A for $15/hr.
                  Person  A finds out he can hire person D overseas and pay Worker D $0.75 a day.
                  Person B goes home unemployed.
                  Person C goes home unemployed.
                  
                  Works out pretty good until Worker A has no customers.

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                     rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     This the shortsighted culmination of the modern economic stradegy that whenever exposed gets no other reply than I don't understand modern economics and the world economy.

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                     JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You are addressing a different topic than I was. Yours is an argument against outsourcing, mine is an argument against class-warfare and attacks against job creators.
                     
                     If you want to discuss the benefits and consequences of outsourcing, I would be happy to.

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                        rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        They are one and the same. That is why we have this class warfare issue flaring up around this election period. The guys at the top are not satisfied with their 300% to 1000% wage difference so they go overseas to make this much more than anybody else. The greed is staggering and shortsighted because it ruins the natural progression of the economy to perpetuate itself. I don't make a distinction between the two as they are comingled in a very close manor. If you wish to only make the point that if you work your a#% off you should make more money I concur. But the unfortunate truth is that in order for the guy who founds a company to be be competitive without overseas labor it is a pipe dream and they all go overseas because that is the current model. I know this as I am very much involved with this problem.

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                           JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           No, they are not the same at all. One is attacking people because of their wealth. One is a disccussion about the pros and cons of outsourcing.
                           
                           Yes, some people utilize outsourcing, and are wealthy. Some people utilize outsourcing, and aren't wealthy. Some people don't utlizie outsourcing, and are wealthy. Some people don't utilize outsourcing, and aren't wealthy. They are not the same topic.
                           
                           Your claim that companies can't compete without outsourcing is baseless, and misleading. In reality, everyone utilizes outsourcing to some degree or another, including consumers. In reality, outsourcing has a very important role to play in a healthy economy.
                           
                           As for business owners, there's a funny thing about that. They own the business. You have the right to do what you want with your property, don't you?
                           
                           Do you have any property that you own that you don't absolutely need?

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                              rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I did not think this was an all or nothing issue. Sure there are many wealthy people who either inherited or found something very unique to make their money. That and hard work will be the deciding factor. But my point is that there is a growing idiom in business of screwing your buddy is becoming more common place. Look at the billions of dollars going to these CEO's and executives who have spent a lifetime of beating labor out of benefits and wages all the while lining their pockets with the very money they have screwed their workforce out of. If you think it is a baseless argument then you are entitled to your opinion but your little definition does not look at the big picture just as big business doesn't either.  The short of it is that when the fleecing is done you will have a complete exchange of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest. No problem if you are one of the wealthiest as everything will get cheaper for you as no one can afford to buy anything. It is funny that modern economists rail about how the socialists in Europe have raped the wealthy but this brand of free marketing you purport will be the most complete demise of the middle class the country has ever seen.

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               Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Everyone has to eat or they die.

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yup. That's a very astute observation.

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                  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Uhhuh, but not everyone has to be fed by the government. Some of us are self sufficient and that just drives you communists nuts don't it?

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     OOOOOOOOOOOuch, LOVING every second of this!

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                        JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Lol GM, you should use this as your avatar.
                        
                        

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                           Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           +2
                           

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         +1, totally concur.   Why are people are antsy about this, Repairguy and Jaxson.    This is part of American life and the free enterprise system.   There is opportunity, if you do not like your socioeconomic status, you can improve it through education, planning, and smart work.

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   PrettyPantherposted 11 years ago

   Red states take more from the government than they give, on average.  It's a fact.  Look it up.  My church-going, ultra-conservative friend just told me she hoped to get a second extension on her unemployment because she really didn't want to find a job.  She likes being home with her kids, so she hasn't really been trying.  Yet, she posts endless FB posts about lazy welfare recipients.  She "deserves" to catch a break, but "those other people" are lazy freeloaders.
   
   The hypocrisy in conservative communities is mind boggling.

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      JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The hypocrisy in every community is mind-blowing. It happens everywhere, it's human nature.
      
      It even happens in Hollywood. Will Smith on France's taxes, that was a hysterical moment.
      
      "Well, that's different!"

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         PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed, hypocrisy exists everywhere.  I guess we find the hypocrisy of those we disagree with harder to take.

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Know what else is mind boggling? Those who support those types of benefits complaining about who recieves them. Hypocrisy, ain't it cool?

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         PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, but I'm not complaining about her receiving them.  I'm complaining about her receiving them while supporting taking them from other people.  Big difference.

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            Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Nice try but monumental fail. Next!

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               PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I know the subtleties are hard for you to grasp.

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                  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Another fail. Next

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                     PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Like I said, you never change, no matter how many times your moniker does.

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                        Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Not even gonna try and guess what that means. I know one thing when your type is bested they usually go the sock puppet route. Old and tiresome

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   Repairguy,  I remember when I was in my college sociology class in the 1970s,  my professor decided to have a woman on welfare come to speak to us of what it was like to be on public assistance.   This woman wailed how she did not have enough money to buy food for her child, how she could not have luxuries because the social worker routinely checked what she had, etc.    She continuously commiserated as to why the money she received on welfare was NOT ENOUGH.   
   
   As she was talking, I was becoming more incensed and eventually mentally turned her off.    The last thing that she said was that NO ONE should make over $100,000.00!   I just thought to myself, WTF, that !#*&%$ has the unmitigated gall to state this.   Hell, if the person works hard/smart enough and is ingenious, he/she can make as much as he/she $%^&%! want!   RPG, this was socialism and communism in action!   Sadly,  a few people from my generation, Baby Boomers, especially the more liberal among us(btw, I am a liberal but not THAT extreme) have the residuals of hippiedom.   
   
   They believe in kumbaya and that there should be equal distribution of income for all.   They further contend that capitalism is satanic.    Well, I am going off on a rant here.    All I want to say that many Americans are now adapting the premise of inverse logic.   The American Dream and the premise of planning, smart/hard work, and achievement are deemed materialistic.   Now the wealthy are demonized while the poor are deified.   The poverty and anti-achievement mentality is burgeoning in America.    Those who defend capitalism and the art of responsibility are called clueless and worse.    I have been raked over the coals by "pundits" because of my ideas.   I have been called insipid because I strongly contend that poor people can better themselves if they wish to do.   These "pundits" claim that what I was saying was a lie and myth.   RPG, welcome to the NEW AMERICA where you CAN'T,   ARE ABLE TO MAKE ANY EXCUSE IMAGINABLE FOR BEING UNSUCCESSFUL, and yes, TAKE OUT ALL OF YOUR FRUSTRATIONS ON THOSE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU ARE.   Yes, WELCOME TO THE NEW  "IMPROVED'  POSTDEMOCRATIC, SOCIALIST AMERICA!  Let the pity parties begin!   WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH!

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      Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is the second time I'm doing this today. Read Bill O'rileys book culture warrior, this type of nonsense is discussed in detail. Its all part of the progressives plan. Even Obama's recent rant about how success isn't from hard work but rather the result of help from imaginary beings. Its kind of scary how he predicted how those exact words would be used six years ago.

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks, I am going to check it out on amazon.com, my favorite place!

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe by the third mention you'll get the name right.
         It's Bill O'Reilly.
         As he self-describes "perhaps the most controversial broadcaster in the country."
         A legend in his own mind, that one.

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            Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Bill O recently said it would be funny if condoms fell on top of Sandra Fluke's head during her DNC speech...

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   prettydarkhorseposted 11 years ago

   bottoms up economy is good :-)

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