Burglars lock a man in his closet... where he keeps his gun!

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for burglars, rapists, murderers, or child molesters. None. I only wish that all three of these  could have been removed from society, permanently.
   
   http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti … id=9102486
   
   This is the kind of thing that happens millions of times every year, but the media doesn't like to report on it... it's not a money-making thing like the very rare instances like Sandy Hook.

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      Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      And yet, these things don't happen in (you guessed it) Finland, Sweden, Japan, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         And yet, the societies are vastly different in (you guessed it) Finland, Sweden, Japan, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc.
         
         Some countries are peaceful, some aren't. Some have lots of rape, but not much murder. Some have lots of burglaries, but not much rape. Some have lots of gang activity, some don't.
         
         You can't draw any useful information from uncontrolled comparisons of vastly different countries, cultures, legal systems, and demographics.

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            Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Let's just look at the U.S. and Japan, then, shall we?
            
            Similarities:
            - Both countries have limited free-market capitalist economies with some socialist facilities (more so in Japan)
            - Both countries are relatively prosperous
            - Both countries are technologically advanced
            - Both countries glorify violence in their media (Japan even more so than us)
            - Both countries have the same easy access to the exact same media
            - Both countries tend towards conservative (small c) social and fiscal policies, favoring tradition vs. invention
            
            Differences:
            - The majority of the U.S. is religious in some way (74% Christian, 6% Jewish/Islamic/Other, 19% Atheist/Agnostic), while the opposite is true in Japan (34% Buddhist, 3% Shinto, 1% Christian, 61% Atheist/Agnostic)
            - The crime rate in the U.S. is among the highest in the First World, while the opposite is true in Japan
            - Most crime in the U.S. is violent in nature (homicides, burglaries), while most crime in Japan is non-violent (fraud, hacking, theft)
            - Most U.S. schools are floundering and failing (especially public schools), while the opposite is true in Japan

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               Mighty Momposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Two thoughts:
               1. A  much more homogeneous culture in Japan?
               2. What is rate of income disparity and upward mobility in Japan vs. here?

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Homicide rates among blacks in the us are 9 times(IIRC) higher than whites. Why? How does that translate to comparing other countries with different demographics? Is it cultural? Does it have to do with education or wealth levels?
                  
                  You're doing it again MM!

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                     Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Are you seriously suggesting that black people kill each other more because they are black? Obviously it's because of social factors, the social factor being our terrible distribution of wealth and our stupid justice system.
                     
                     Yes we have many more poor people than these countries even though most of them are actually poorer and yes our justice system creates more crime because it punishes it does not reform (the let's kill criminals attitude plays a huge part in why we have so much crime so thank you).

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                        JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        No, I'm saying that you can look at statistics without controlling for anything and think that you can get useful information out of it, but you'd be wrong.
                        
                        If anyone here wants to just look at statistics without doing any controls, then black people in the US are 9 times more likely to murder than whites.

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                  Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  1. Not sure how that affects crime in any wide regard. Sure makes for a paranoid, xenophobic populace, though.
                  2. Income disparity is fairly lower than it is here, but upward mobility is pretty much the same.

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                     JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     1 - It makes a difference. Homicide rates among different racial groups in the US are different by a factor of 10 or more.
                     
                     2 - Crime is higher in poor urban areas, if Japan has less, that would explain some of the difference.

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               Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Porous borders and a lack of enforcing immigration laws contribute to both drug proliferation and gangs.  Drugs flood into America through the U.S.-Mexico border.  Many gangs are composed of illegal immigrants, not just from Mexico, but from around the world.  I believe I saw one government statistic stating that roughly 40ish percent of gang members in America are illegal aliens.  I'll try to find that statistic and source for you.
               
               Japan doesn’t have the kind of illegal immigration we have.  It doesn’t have the drug and gang culture.

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                  Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  My guess is you know nothing about the drug and particularly gang culture of Japan, we have not had organized crime on the scale of the Yakuza since the height of the five families.
                  
                  As for illegal immigration we have had this debate before you claiming they commit more crime me claiming they commit crime both with studies (in your case ones with no actual data) to back that argument but only about 4% of the population is composed of illegals and we know that at least in some states they are actually far less likely to commit a crime than the general population so attempting to claim that illegals have a significant impact on American crime statistics is just flat out wrong.
                  
                  Public Policy center found that illegal are less than half as likely to be imprisoned in California than the general population.
                  
                  http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/cacoun … 08KBCC.pdf
                  
                  Most of the illegal immigrants in the US live in California btw.

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                     Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, we've had this discussion before, and you were wrong then too.  I admit I do not know much about drugs and gangs in Japan.  That's true.  You do not know much about drugs and gangs in America.  That's evident.  Your data comes from what source?  Your source's credibility is suspect, much like your post.
                     
                     We have as many illegal aliens in Arizona as there are soldiers in the U.S. military.  That's enough to see what is happening.

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                  maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Everything related with criminality is originated from illegal immigration, it makes sense. Unfortunately for you, we are the ones who favor drug entrance in the US. We didn't wait for the Mexicans to enter our territory illegally to experience crimes. Since when don't we have the monopoly on drugs coming in our territory? Michael Ruppert, cop and journalist denounced it. He was lynched for that. It is common knowledge that we are the ones controlling the drug coming from Afghanistan, that we are using the Kosovo as a platform of distribution. One thing that you easily forget is without demand there is no offer. Nobody has a gun at his/her temple to consume drugs.
                  Your allegations, as usual, are false and racist.

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                     Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Everything?  Racist?
                     
                     I never said that ALL crime originates from illegal immigration; that is absurd.  That's your extremist comment.  I favor legal immigration and have absolutely no problem with people of ALL races joining our country, LEGALLY.  Aren't most of our families from another country originally?  Your comment about racism is an extremist comment too. 
                     
                     It is not racist or unreasonable to say that illegal aliens commit a lot of crime.  You may disagree, but that doesn't make me a racist.  It is not racist or unreasonable to say that our country needs to know who is in our country and for what purpose.  You may disagree, but that doesn't make me a racist.  I simply want greater security to keep us safe.  Look at what happened in Boston recently.  Weren't they here on an expired student visa? 
                     
                     Become educated, and you might not need to make extremist comments.

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      So wait you want more deaths? The burglars were committing a crime sure but they apparently made sure not to kill or even injure the owner and you want them all dead, you support the death penalty for burglary, that is a pretty fascist understanding of justice and one which obviously most people don't agree with since we certainly don't execute people for burglary.
      
      They deserve jail not death which is why our system delivers just that.
      
      I don't understand how someone can become so callous as to wish for the deaths of people because they committed burglary, how someone can be oblivious to the causes of crime and so utterly lacking in understanding or compassion. I guess I never will.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I don't care if burglars are killed. Sorry. Muggers, rapists, abusers, murderers... I just don't care.
         
         If you want to refuse to play by the rules of society, I'm not going to mourn you.. If you think you are entitled to harming other people, I just don't care. Criminals are scum.

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   Mighty Momposted 10 years ago

   I don't know how newsworthy this story is outside of the local area where it occurred.
   Nothing "sensational" about it. Which is a good thing!
   
   Hooray for the homeowner. And hooray they chose that closet instead of another one (unless the guy keeps guns in every closet in the house).
   
   I'm so glad he didn't get hurt in the "exchanged fire."
   I was thinking as I read about the blood coming of out of neck and leg ...
   "Uh oh. I sure hope the intruder doesn't try to sue the homeowner."
   
   ...I do wonder who is paying for the intruder's hospital care, though.
   

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      JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's the problem, the murders get national news time far more than the self-defense instances, which is why everybody just 'knows' that guns are a net tool for bad.
      
      I'm sure the intruder's family might try and sue...

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         Mighty Momposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Not hard to picture that.
         Maybe I'm jaded from living in California too long.

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            JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            We need loser pays laws. I'm tired of seeing these lawsuits
            
            "My baby didn't do nothin! He was a sweet, bright young boy... and an aspiring rapper!"(I'm not trying to be racist, I've just heard that story verbatim so many times in the last few months)
            
            You might detect a tone in my posts today, but that's because I'm fed up with the pathetic state our nation is in.

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               Mighty Momposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               You might detect a tone in my responses to your posts today, too.
               I'm actually pretty disgusted myself.
               
               Not particularly inclined to defend anyone tonight.
               Congress should be doing their JOBS, not going on TV news shows.
               The president should be doing his JOB, too.
               
               The media needs to stop the feeding frenzy of beating one story to frigging death -- then abruptly dropping it and moving on to the next like vulture vampires.
               Is there really nothing else going on in the entire world that's worthy of our attention?
               

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I did notice!
                  
                  Stop agreeing with me! Is it a full moon or something?

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   Like I said, you won't get any useful data trying to do that. You can look for differences, and think you found something meaningful, but without strict controls, you have no actual data.
   
   Did you know Denmark has a burglary rate 3 times as high as the US? Maybe that's because home owners in the US defend themselves. Did you know that if you eliminate gang v gang and drug v drug homicides, our rate would be lower than Finland?
   
   Doesn't really mean anything...

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Nope it's because Denmark defines burglary differently. Lots of murders in most countries are committed over drugs and by gangs. Finland has a gang problem too, Russian Vory Mafia, Massive international Biker gangs that control the drugs etc.

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   innersmiffposted 10 years ago

   The way I see it, guns are a fact of nature in the US. The correct response to this is how to deal with it, not how to deny it. Gun-control in the US is a revolt against nature (and actually a paradox since one necessarily needs guns in order to enact gun control)

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      JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Only the police are responsible enough to own guns
      
      Nevermind that the police miss their target more often and hit more innocent bystanders than private citizens.
      
      Personally, I think the best solution is to encourage responsible gun ownership, stop the government trying to brainwash people into hating guns (Eric Holder's own words), and teach people to be responsible with them.

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         Mighty Momposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I don't see anyone claiming people should not have guns.
         If you're going to have them, be responsible with them.
         But I challenge anyone to defend irresponsible gun ownership.

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            JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I won't defend it.

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            innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not going to use guns to prevent irresponsible users from holding them though.

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   POWERS1205posted 10 years ago

   Wow, did you just use the phrase "distribution of wealth"? I am a poor person by our national standards. I have been working in automotive for 15 years. I recently discovered an opportunity to start my own business with help from investors that back my business plan. All the work and planning has been hard. I am married with 5 children and we are always busy. My family knows that for us to be successful, daddy will have to work his butt off. Hopefully it will be as profitable as my investors and I believe it will be.
   So if all my hard work pays off, am I really supposed to distribute my earnings to everyone who didn't help me? Have you ever heard the fable about the hen that found the wheat but no one wanted to help her work to turn it into bread, but everyone wanted to eat it?
   I hope to distribute some of my wealth to families of children with terminal illnesses. I want to do this as I see fit. I don't need a government to "distribute wealth".
   As far as crime and punishment, I really doubt that the death penalty encourages crime. It's in place for the type of people who commit certain heinous crimes that no amount of 'reform' can fix.

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You misunderstand how I am using the phrase distribution of wealth I am not using it as a verb but as mathematical term as in our wealth is poorly distributed as more than 90% is in the hands of the top 10% as in we have the worst GINI index in the first world.
      
      Yup the death penalty does not increase crime, but the attitude that accompanies it does, because yes only murderers and rapists are (or should) be executed but people who have committed lower level crimes are still treated to the attitude of portraying them as evil that can't be fixed and just wanting them to suffer or die, that does not conduce to imprisonment that creates reformed people it creates brutal imprisonment that scars and harden criminals making it nigh impossible they will become productive members of society. That would be why in Norway that for example has a reformative system people that come out of their jails are about three times less likely to end up back in.

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