Have you used a cell-phone in the last three months?

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   The government is illegally seizing your phone records. The NSA is forcing all mobile providers to hand over all their data on every single call, outgoing and incoming, for a three month period.
   
   But don't worry, The Voice is on, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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      MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If the government knows I talk to my mother ever day for a half an hour, I'm not sure how that upsets me.
      
      Sorry Jaxson, I can't get that worked up over this one. I'm literally the most boring person in the world, so such things never affect me seriously enough to take them personally.  I guess I should be upset about it on a global level but there are so many other things that upset me more.  The fact that the government cares about my phone calls is slightly less perturbing than the unhealthy interest they show for my uterus, for example.

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         janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         This might be good news Melissa. Just tell your mom the goverment is listening in, and you won't have to talk to her for a half an hour a day anymore.

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         innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Your tacit acceptance sets the precedent that government is entitled to watch and control every aspect of our lives. You are allowed to give up your liberties, just so long as you don't give up other peoples' as well.

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            MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            My outrage is not required for your outrage to exist. Nor does my apathy on the matter in any way detract from anyone else's attempts to protect their "liberties"
            
            The fact that I don't have to care IS one of my civil liberties... and it's one I take quite seriously. Please, go forth and fight the good fight.  Just remember that I am not, in any way, bound to join you... nor does my complete and utter indifference constitute me giving up anyone else's rights.

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               innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Let me repeat: Your tacit acceptance sets the precedent that government is entitled to watch and control every aspect of our lives.
               
               In other words, the more people who say that they don't care/mind, the more the government is going to be convinced that it is OK, and can continue to do it. Whether you like it or not, it is a violation of liberty and you are culpable if you do nothing about it.
               
               "First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
               
               Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
               
               Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
               
               Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"
               - Pastor Niemoller

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                  MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I am not culpable if you are too weak to change a situation you don't like. I don't care about the situation... why should I fight a battle I don't care about just because you don't like it?
                  
                  I fought my battles and made all the changes to the world that I needed to.  I didn't see you marching beside me.  I didn't complain on an internet forum... I actually got off my butt and worked for change.
                  
                  Your turn.

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                     innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     You don't understand.
                     
                     You pay tax for, and vote for, governments that affect me and my family's privacy. It's your fault not just because you're ignorant, it's your fault because you're paying for it.

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                        MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Wow... Ignorant because I don't agree with you... nice.
                        
                        I'll jump right on your bandwagon now.

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                           innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           You are ignorant. You hold the false belief that voting for people that invade others privacy does not make you culpable for invasion of privacy.

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                              MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Let's explore my ignorance...
                              
                              1.Every phone call I make on my cell phone has ALWAYS been recorded (i.e. placed in a database... the same info the government has). That's how the cell phone companies bill.  My privacy about who I called was always forfeit.
                              
                              2. The cell phone company was ALWAYS required to hand those records over to the law enforcement upon request.  A subpoena for an open investigation is pretty easy to get.
                              
                              So basically, my calls have always been in a data base... I don't particularly put any more faith in ATT's desire to protect my privacy and not use my information for unethical purposes any more than the government.
                              
                              In addition, if you don't want your privacy invaded hop on down to Walmart, or Target or most of the gas stations in the world.  Buy a pre-paid cell phone. Buy a card with minutes. Pay with cash. Hell if you feel really paranoid, wear a disguise.  Have fun... you now have a phone without your name anywhere to be found on any records.
                              
                              Or you could use a payphone... if such creatures still exist.
                              
                              Owning a cell phone is not a right... Sorry.
                              
                              Now, find something important to worry about... and hey you might want to actually DO something other than complain to fix it.
                              
                              So basically, protect your own rights.  Above is how to do it.  You can thank me for my help with "fighting the man" whenever you find the time.

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                                 innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Your choice to use a phone company that collects your data is absolutely up to you, as is mine to not do that. However, what we're talking about is aggressive interference in our privacy. There is no choice involved where, otherwise, I could partake in a voluntary contract with the phone company who would agree not to keep records, that is my right. The government steps in, aggressively, to say that they must keep it on record for their benefit.
                                 
                                 Aggression and non aggression = huge difference.
                                 
                                 By voting for people that commit aggression, you are, in turn, committing aggression. Therefore my beef with you is perfectly justified.

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                        Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Simply excersizing her rights.

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                           innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           So murder and rape are OK just so long as you vote someone in to do it instead of doing it yourself?
                           
                           OK.

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                              Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't peg you as a person who believes there is a divinely dictated truth, given that there is no absolute truth or morality how can we possibly dictate what is right or wrong, there is no right or wrong there is only opinion given that fact how do we decide what is right? The only way is by asking people (through a democratic process) and my personal opinions on it really don't matter.

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                                 innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 . . . which is why no moral truth should be enforced upon anybody. Those that believe privacy is not that big of a deal, they can associate with people that agree. Those that believe privacy is important can associate with people that agree. What exactly is so radical about that?
                                 
                                 Democracy forces us to choose between one or the other, which seems to contradict this idea of 'there is no objective moral truth'.
                                 
                                 I have my own moral compass, and I choose to apply it equally to individuals and government. I would frown upon any individual who decided to hack into someone's phone records without their consent. I also say that it's not OK when the government does it either. If democracy says that invasion of privacy is OK, then realistically we shouldn't have a problem with anybody doing it. Even wacko morals need to be consistent.

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                        PrettyPantherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        And you probably vote for those who would dismantle social programs that I value.  So?

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                           GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           So, you don't like the government, you don't trust the government, you want everyone to vote to change the government... EXCEPT for the GOVERNMENT Social Programs you like?
                           
                           As my son would say, "Really!"
                           
                           GA

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                              PrettyPantherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Huh?  Are you talking to me?  Where have I said all that?
                              
                              Yes, I value things like Social Security and health care for veterans.  Sue me.

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                           innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Theft funds those social programs, so cutting them simply represents reclaiming stolen goods.

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                  rhamsonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  The apathy expressed by some is not a surprise as the sheeple have been asleep for many years. We give away so easily what was fought for so vehemently by our fathers and friends. My father always said that we should never give the government such latitude with our rights as they are never returned as easily. He was a staunch liberal.

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                     MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     There's a difference between sheeple and not getting irrationally angry over everything else than anyone else might be angry about.
                     
                     It's so cool that those who don't care about an issue are ignorant sheeple.
                     
                     So tell me, I'm sure you've written letters to your representatives and staged rallies against this gross violation of your civil liberties? Right?
                     
                     A letter to the editor of you local paper at least?
                     
                     Tell me you've at least bought a burnable cell phone to use so that the government can't gather your data?
                     
                     Armchair activists are loud, yet largely ineffective.  They don't change anything. They just draw attention to themselves yet do nothing with that attention.
                     
                     But sure complaining about it on a writer's site in forums maybe 100 (tops) people read helps.  That means you're not a sheeple because you certainly aren't giving the government any latitude with your rights by doing absolutely nothing of consequence to stop a situation you don't like.
                     
                     In addition, just out of curiosity, what are people who follow ever single other person who gets angry about anything called?

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                        rhamsonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        The acceptance of an impingement on your rights dictated the response I gave to your post. I was not referring to your intelligence by saying you were ignorant, you took that as you wished. Sheeple refers to someone who just goes along with the pack and doesn't question those who would take something away or hurt them.
                        On your other note I am very active politically and editorially in my locale and I attend county meetings as well as vote as an independent. I also belong to a few civil rights organizations as well if you must throw the accusations of being a web only participant on these types of topics.
                        There is a difference between being apathetic to this right to privacy and having an alarmist attitude towards anything that comes down the pike. If they are able to take away your privacy, can you feel confidant that they will not next come after you for what you say?

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                           MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           No one has taken away my privacy or infringed my rights.  No one has taken away yours either... you make the choice to own a cell phone that is subject to those issues.
                           
                           You responded in support of someone who did call me ignorant. I assumed you shared his views since you were so vocally supportive of it.
                           
                           I know what sheeple means and I know it's origin.
                           
                           My observation leads me to believe that it's not the act of following along with the pack that concerns you but the act of not following YOUR pack.  The implication that I am under some obligation to agree with you or fight a battle that you believe in even if I don't strengthens that observation.
                           
                           As there are certainly ways to get around this "invasion of privacy", then obviously no one's rights are being compromised.  If you don't take these measures, then it is your choice to have your right to privacy taken away.
                           
                           You belong to organizations... good on you.  So what are your organizations doing about this issue? If nothing, then it is you that is the sheeple, as it is YOUR battle and you aren't doing anything about it. 
                           
                           My battles lie elsewhere.  Are you a sheeple for not fighting them with me? 
                           
                           Lastly, I never cared if "they" came after me for what I say.  If I wasn't willing to have that happen I wouldn't say anything in the first place.

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                              rhamsonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I am sorry if your can't grasp the concept because of your desire to defend your non opinion of what is the topic. I bid you farewell and wish you well in your endeavors.

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      Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It's probably not a popular opinion, but this never really bothered me much.
      
      edit: after having read the rest of the posts, it appears Im not alone.

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   PrettyPantherposted 10 years ago

   Just curious, have you been outraged for at least 7 years and just now decided to post about it?  Or, have you been too busy watching the other guy pay attention to the man behind the curtain who started the whole thing?
   
   NSA has massive database of Americans' calls - dated 5/11/2006
   
   For those who don't want to click on the link:
   
   "The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
   
   The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.
   
   "It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.
   
   For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made — across town or across the country — to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.
   
   The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said."

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      SassySue1963posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yep I was outraged then. Didn't like it, didn't agree with it.
      
      I'm sure your voice was one of the many calling for the head of George Bush when this, among some other elements of the Patriot Act, were passed.
      
      But, let me guess, it's a Democrat now so it's okay that this Administration doesn't see a problem with it? Right? It also might interest you to know that the continuation of this practice came from this Administration in 2011.

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         PrettyPantherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I've never called for the head of anyone.  No, it's not okay with me now, either.  We already had one conservative on these forums admit they like the Patriot Act except when Obama is in charge.  I'm sure there are many more who just won't come out and say it.  I base this upon conversations with my conservative friends back when Bush was in office, as well as the almost universal support for the Act at the time among conservatives in the media, in political office, and online.
         
         I recognize that the reverse is undoubtedly true, too.  The point I've been trying to make is it's hard to stay outraged over something that you've known about for years and it's ridiculous to be accused by conservatives of not caring when most conservatives didn't care back then.

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   Zelkiiroposted 10 years ago

   Did I just travel back to 2003 or something?

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   FatFreddysCatposted 10 years ago

   When I talk to my brother on the phone, we've been known to send out a sarcastic "hi" to anyone from the government who might be listening...

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

   what should we do?

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   This thread depresses me
   
   Americans will learn their lesson eventually.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

   what should we do?  go back to land lines? do they monitor our land lines too?

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      ...are they looking for conversations about overthrowing the government?
      well I do not want to...
                                                  Overthrow the Government!
      
      (I am sure they will read this now.)
      ( ulp.)
      I am actually more careful what I say on HP these days.
      ...much more careful.
      ...or is hubPages pretty secure?

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      MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      They aren't recording your phone calls, they are simply turning over the list of outgoing and incoming calls for your phone and the length of those calls.
      
      You know, like the phone company does to bill you...
      
      And is usually printed out on your phone bill.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

   What? they are not listening to our brilliant conversations or looking for our suggestions as to how to change the world for the better? I was going to start becoming more eloquent. Now I will try to find important people to call.  I know I can impress them somehow.
   Just kidding.
   Really... if it bothers us, we can stop using cell phones...
   Just kidding.
   What does Jaxson suggest we do?

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