At what point is the " tipping of the scales" , in immigration ?

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   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   In immigration , do any of you believe that the tipping point of our culture  is affected , perhaps  to the point of the actual  un-Americanization  of our society ?  Do you view this  as important , I realize  some are going to respond  that All immigration has melded our society to what it is ,  and yet ,  Is there not a more substantial  tilt  towards the Hispanic  population  growth by simple geographical  advantage  and illegal alien status  ?

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      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know that you can control such a thing. Society grows in any direction that it wants. What I do believe is that we should at least preserve our integrity in as much as how the republic works and establishes its order. For example that all must learn and know our Constitution and be dedicated to some form of furthering the country. Bringing change with the immigrant should include a respect and participation in our culture and language as well. They should envelope the things that make us a great country.

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         colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I believe illegal immigration can be controlled by securing our borders.
         
         "Barack Obama is right now in the process of creating millions of brand new voters for the Democrat Party by . . .
         Ignoring U.S. immigration law and refusing to secure America's borders;
         Allowing millions of illegal immigrants to cross into the United States; and
         Violating the Constitution and the law by using Executive Orders and administrative fiats to grant backdoor amnesty to millions of illegal aliens already in the United States."
         
         http://www.committeeforjustice.org/cont … ration-law
         
         Obama is not a protector of the United States by allowing illegals and legal immigrants who do no agree withe the Constitution and the American way.  I absolutely agree 100% with you that that is how it 'should' work.  But, we have a lawless president who ignores laws he doesn't like, ones that puts this country in danger.   Chattanooga...

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      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Depends on how you define 'Americanization'
      
      Those that immigrate here must agree to abide by the Constitution of the United States and the rule of law. That is as American as it gets. Everthing else can be well subject to change.

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I do think we should require (as we do) a working knowledge of English.  We are becoming a two language country because of illegal aliens, and that should not happen.
         
         But culture - we are a mix of different cultures.  Coming up is Halloween, brought to the country by immigrants, and such things should be welcomed (although I draw the line at Sinco De Mayo - a faux "celebration" of a small military victory of a different country, designed and used simply to irritate Americans).

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            colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know if this will happen but some ethnic groups are demanding a ban on Halloween costumes in schools for ridiculous reasons.  It does not matter to me one way or the other.
            
            Then, I have read rumors that Obama will ban the words "Christmas" and "Merry Christmas"  from all government buildings in December.  Just gotta wait and see.

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               Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               LOL ~ Hopefully Bill O'reilly will have been VICTORIOUS in his STEADFAST little "WAR on Christmas" by then ~

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                  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree...and so many other Christians who are fighting for Christian lives and liberty.  I do not believe it deserves a "LOL".  But, honestly I would expect nothing less from you.   
                  
                  "Christians face more persecution today than at any time in history, from jihadist regimes, to Muslim mobs, to genocidal terrorist armies.  America can and must do more to protect these persecuted Christians around the globe."
                  http://aclj.org/persecuted-church/its-t … christians
                  
                  Christians were martyred in the Organ mass murder on American soil by an anti-Christian gunman.  Not once did Obama or his administration use the word Christian and denounce the murdering of American Christians.  Not once.   
                  
                  "The New York Times only mentioned that the gunman inquired about people’s “religions” and one cable television news channel opined that the shooter’s motive was unclear.
                  
                  President Obama’s behavior in the aftermath of the massacre was quite frankly unpresidential. Instead of calling for religious tolerance -- he delivered an unhinged tirade on gun control."
                  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/10/ … -soil.html
                  
                  Your attitude may be similar to that of Hillary Clinton who said, "What does it matter."  about the Americans who were murdered in Benghazi.

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                     Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually it does deserve an Enormous Jovial LOL
                     
                     And don't forget colorfulone, according to the U.S. CONSTITUTION, LIBERTY Belongs to ALL of US Americans even Minorities, Un-Documented Immigrants, Women, Men, African Americans, Asians, Gays etc ~

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                        colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        "Judges Continue to be Skeptical of President Obama’s Executive Overreach"
                        http://aclj.org/executive-power/judges- … -overreach
                        
                        Obama doesn't care what the Constitution says, he will change whatever part to promote his agendas.

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            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Wildernes, I have no problem allowing people to celebrate whatever they want, freedom of association and all that. But we have our core national holidays and don't worry Cinco de Mayo won't make the cut.
            
            As for the language issue,I don't need to require fluncy in English. There are many Western democracies that operate on a bilingual platform. Canada and Belgium come immediately to mind. This does not intimidate me. If these immigrants have any sense they would know that it is difficult to get ahead here on any front without a working knowledge of the predominant language spoken here, ENGLISH. I don't need to mandate things like this.

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               wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               It isn't about "making the cut" to be a national holiday: it's about being Mexican and demanding that a fake Mexican holiday override common sense.  It's about schools prohibiting American emblems on that fake Mexican "celebration".  It's about shoving it in the face of Americans for no other reason than to declare "I'm Mexican".  Keep in mind here that it is NOT a national holiday in Mexico; it is celebrated only in one small town and along the border with the US.
               
               Language: I don't find a reason to make everything in the country multi-language to satisfy the needs of an immigrant.  Or an illegal alien, which is what it is really about.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Now Wilderness, our differences are distinct in this case.
                  
                  What do we care if a holiday is fake or otherwise, you nor I am Hispanic so what right do we have to judge? I am only interested in the holidays that I officially received a day off as a Civil Servant.
                  
                  I could say the same thing about St. Patrick's Day or Kwanzaa. So who cares what other people declare? They are living here and that in itself speaks for itself. You haven't been to Denver, all of Federal Blvd north of Alameda has traffic virtually at a standstill, with the parade of honking vehicles and Mexican flags. I really don't care as long as they do not make an inconvenience when I tried to traverse one part of town to the other. This is big business in the SW USA. Albuquerque, Pheonix, Tucson, LA.....  You and I can create our own holiday, so what?
                  You got Univision and an entire network of Spanish language media, so the burro is out of the barn, to late to close the barn door. When you check any of the major markets for television stations servicing a specific geographic area, there is always a Univision TV affiliated station from LA to Seattle, from Miami to Boston and virutally all markets inbetween. There were at least 2 in Denver and I have found one in Hawaii and here in Central Florida. My point is that you have already been overrun.
                  
                  All modern democracies seem to be able to absorb the idea of two or more languages being accomodated, why do we have to be different? Outside my theme here, I believe it would be advantageous to most Americans if they were conversant in more than one language. Most Europeans are.

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                     wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     You misunderstand, I think.  May 5 is used, and used ONLY, to give a poke in the eye to Americans.  It has no other purpose - it isn't a Mexican holiday, it isn't a Hispanic holiday.  It isn't anything but a slap at Americans by the people feeding at the American trough.  IMHO.  Rather than trying to fit in, while still maintaining something from the "homeplace", May 5 has become a symbol of Mexican revolt against the hand that feeds it and nothing more.

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                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        What am I missing here?  People can only poke me in the eye if I let them. For a cynical slap in the face as not being an actual holiday,  there are an awful lot of Hispanic citizens that celebrate, hardly Americans feeding at the trough. Everybody has pride in their place of origin, most of the Hispanic citizens are good Americans who just so happen to speak Spanish.

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                           wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           Tell that to the school child denied the ability to be a patriot on 5 May - only the patriotism to Mexico is allowed then. 
                           
                           Absolutely, most have pride in their origin and they should.  Which Cinco De Mayo does not represent.  It isn't even celebrated there!
                           
                           Americans are citizens, and the citizenship process requires learning English.

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                              Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              LOL ~ Which is MORE Detrimental to Americans & The Very Fabric of this Nation?
                              
                              Hispanics and Non-Hispanics living in America Celebrating Cinco, a ONE Day Fiesta with FOOD & Drink that comes and goes like the proverbial wind? I too believe Cinco is simply an EXCUSE to Party Hearty, just like many other Diluted "HOLIDAYS" ~ P.S. Hispanics are NOT the only Ethnic Group that Participates ~
                              
                              OR
                              
                              Paul Ryan your Sparkling NEW CONservative Republican Speaker of the House, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, and almost ALL other fellow CONservatives Desperately trying to END Social Security & Medicare as we know it, leaving MILLIONS of our Senior Citizens in Dire Straits?
                              
                              THINK Long n' Hard republicans ~

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                        Quilligrapherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Hey, Wilderness. Thank you for sharing your opinions.
                        
                        "May 5 is used, and used ONLY [sic], to give a poke in the eye to Americans.  It has no other purpose."
                        
                        According to this statement, both chambers of the US Congress are poking Americans in the eye! A Concurrent Resolution (H. Con. Res. 44) issued in June 2005, called on the President to urge Americans to observe Cinco de Mayo with appropriate ceremonies and activities.  From the resolution: “Not unlike St. Patrick's Day, which has become a popular celebration of Irish heritage, Cinco de Mayo is a day in which we can all join in celebrating Mexican heritage.” {1} 
                        
                        "It isn't anything but a slap at Americans by the people feeding at the American trough."
                        
                        Cinco de Mayo is a celebration and not a slap at Americans. It commemorates self-esteem and ethnic pride, feelings all people are entitled to express. Not even the French see the holiday as a jab and they are the ones that suffered a totally unexpected defeat at Puebla. As America’s Time magazine remarked, "The Puebla victory came to symbolize unity and pride for what seemed like a Mexican David defeating a French Goliath."{2}
                        
                        Also, there are rational and logical gaps in this way of thinking. Is every Irish descendant at a St. Patrick’s Day celebration undocumented and feeding at the American trough? Are all German descendants at Oktoberfest events feeding at the American trough? How about Poles feeling pride on Pulaski Day, Jewish pride at Chanukah, or Pilgrims pride at Thanksgiving? There is no valid reason to interpret the pride immigrants feel for their heritage as a slap at Americans. Likewise, there is no valid reason, other than prejudice, to assume that all Americans celebrating Cinco de Mayo have not earned the privilege to feed at the same trough that you and I use. 
                        
                        "It isn't a Mexican holiday, it isn't a Hispanic holiday," was posted.
                        
                        Mexico’s President Juárez declared the anniversary of Cinco de Mayo as a national holiday, therefore, those who claim it is not a Mexican holiday are wrong.  While we know it is not as colorful and popular in Mexico as it is elsewhere, all public schools in Mexico are closed nationwide on May 5 as can be seen on the government’s official school calendar. If schools and, in some states, businesses are closed, it seems rather odd to claim it is not a Mexican holiday.
                        
                        In the State of Puebla, scene of the battle, the day is an official public holiday and in the neighboring State of Veracruz nearly all commercial businesses are closed. {3} {4}
                        
                        Cinco de Mayo "has no other purpose," we have been told, but to poke American’s in the eye.
                        
                        But, as the more traveled and the more informed will attest, annual Cinco de Mayo events and commemorations occur all over the world:
                        Vancouver, Canada, {5}
                        Montego Bay, Jamaica {6}
                        Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, {7}
                        London, UK{8}
                        New Zealand, {9}
                        Tokyo, {10}
                        Paris, {11}
                        
                        Here is a list of 25 other popular festivals where Americans and immigrants from coast to coast celebrate Mexican pride. {12} 
                        
                        "May 5 is used, and used ONLY, to give a poke in the eye to Americans.  It has no other purpose - it isn't a Mexican holiday, it isn't a Hispanic holiday.  It isn't anything but a slap at Americans by the people feeding at the American trough."
                        
                        America is no stranger to immigration and Americans never lived in fear of immigrants. Nine percent of the population of Norway relocated to the United States during the 1880’s. About 40% of all Americans alive today have  at least one ancestor who passed through Ellis Island. Americans should disagree with every sentiment that reeks of prejudice and reject every claim that lacks a reasonable assessment of the facts surrounding Cinco de Mayo.
                        
                        {1} http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-2005- … pdf#page=1
                        {2} http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa … 33,00.html
                        {3} http://www.animalpolitico.com/2013/01/l … descansar/ See the section: En cuanto a las escuelas, estos son los días de descanso obligatorio que aún le restan al calendario escolar de la SEP 2012-2013. (As for schools, these are mandatory holidays that still remain on the school calendar SEP 2012-2013).
                        {4} http://www.sep.gob.mx/es/sep1/Calendario_2012__2013
                        {5} https://web.archive.org/web/20080419140 … vents.html
                        {6} http://old.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/ … cial1.html
                        {7} http://www.cincodemayo.com.au/#/welcome
                        {8} http://londonist.com/2012/05/where-to-c … -in-london
                        {9} http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/6 … co-De-Mayo
                        {10} http://www.japanbases.com/forums/aft/10628.aspx
                        {11} http://www.soonnight.com/paris/paris/je … 24658.html
                        {12}
                        http://weblords.org/bulletmetro/25-smas … o-de-mayo/

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            GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Oh No, say it ain't so! No Martinis tonight, but that sure sounds like you want to tell someone what language they have to speak. Between this, and the Term Limits thread, I am getting that weird Deja Vu feeling.
            
            One supportive response might regard your use of "working knowledge" as implying the basic need for understandable communications to start or get the wheels rolling for whatever human interaction is occurring.
            
            Once again my initial thought asked why was this a problem? Why are we asking the government to do something that we could do, and to your point, it is something we should do, but we didn't do?
            
            But instead, what we did do was cave-in to our own lack of responsibility, and lack of courage to do what was in our best national interest.
            
            Why do we have to print documents in two languages? Why not insist that they, (pick what ever they you want), expend the effort to to do what ever it takes for them to participate, instead of us doing whatever it takes for them to participate?
            
            To the anticipated counters that will bring a compassion reasoning to the table... I say the possible life-affecting need of one side is equally life-affecting to the other. So why take a road that would be detrimental to our national best interest. ps. my best national interest is about who pays the cost, no matter what coin that cost might take. Money, lives, strength, resources, etc.)
            
            So once again I find myself considering speaking out of both sides of my mouth, "yeah, we should have done it, but we didn't, so let's get the government to do it for us," and "No way, I don't want to tell some one something as personal as what language they have to speak." After all, you have said it isn't right to tell someone what their sexuality should be. But you do want to tell them what their language should be?
            
            I was able to resist the "two-sides" temptation on this one though. No, I do not think any such requirement should be mandated. Just conduct business in English, and let both participants do what is needed to get the job done. [EDIT] *Then again, maybe I misunderstood your "require" and your intention was similar to my choice too. If I read a legal angle by mistake, then I may have stubbed my toe.
            
            GA

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      lisavanvorstposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I am not against any one coming into this country legally. One who works and pays taxes. However, I am against the immense populations of illegal immigrants coming in and not paying taxes, getting free health coverage, etc. Now how can we as society control the onset of immigrants. I support what Donald Trump is saying to a certain degree. We need to close the borders till we as society find a way to get those entering our country to become a citizen. Stop these temporary visa's that no entity is checking up on. Stop paying illegals less wages while Americans struggle to buy food and pay rent, mortgage and utilities. Keep the jobs in America and stop outsourcing. I work and yet I am practically broke before my next paycheck. So when I am driving to work and in front of me is a truck with six Mexicans in it, yes I do wonder "Are they legal" or have they just taken the jobs of six Americans. And yes I do also blame the employers who hire illegals for less. They too are to blame for the Americans who are struggling. We work hard for our money, do not say all Americans are lazy, just as I will not say all Hispanics and Mexicans are illegals. That is my opinion, which is why I am leaning on voting for Donald Trump.

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   Alternative Primeposted 8 years ago

   P.S. ~ Un-Documented Immigrants are FOLLOWING their Constitution to the Letter, Especially the Part that says Immediate and Un-Conditional Citizenship is Automatically Granted if BORN in the United States ~
   
   *
   
   They are just as AMERICAN as any of us and even more so than MOST Congressional Republicans like soon to be Speaker Paul Ryan who has Dedicated his ENTIRE Tenure to date trying to Concoct a GRAND SCHEME to Terminate Social Security & Medicare, leaving Senior Citizens in a Financial Bind or even WORSE ~ How AMERICAN is THAT?

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   PrettyPantherposted 8 years ago

   Culture is always changing and evolving.  I don't know what you mean by "un-Americanization."  Can you please tell us exactly what you are referring to?
   
   You mention Hispanic population growth.  I don't know why that matters?  Perhaps you can explain why that is a "bad" thing, as I think you seem to view it, but you can correct me if I am wrong.
   
   Others have mentioned a two-language country.  Again, why is that "bad"?  Growing up bi-lingual is a benefit to developing minds.
   
   I guess I"m confused by the question....?
   
   (see, ahorseback, I am using your suggestion of phrasing my response mostly in the form of questions)

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   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   All immigration  should only happen legally ,  this entire  amnesty thing is sweeping a huge action of national - international disrespect  under the rug .   I have no problem with LEGAILIZED  immigration at all from anywhere .  Let the Muslims in , let the  Fins in or the Africans ,   but we do  need a wall !

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      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree 100%. 
      
      Obama has made us vulnerable to foreign enemies, and he has opened the way for domestic enemies of the United States.

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      Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So ahorseback, you must Vehemently DISAGREE with Dr. Ben Carson's Disgraceful, Radically Discriminatory, UNLAWFUL, Unconstitutional Belief that Muslims, and who knows what other group of people, should NOT be Allowed to become President of the United States right?

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         As usual you have grossly mis-stated Carson's position.  He has made it very clear that while it is legal, HE would not place his personal vote for a Muslim.  That is his privilege, just as it is yours to never vote for a Republican.

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            Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Mr. Carson appears to be JEB Junior when it comes to TRYING to Speak Inteligently, it just DOSEN't Happen and he does a pretty good job of "Mis-Stating" his own positions without Extra-Help from anyone else ~
            
            He's just ANOTHER Radically Extreme Republican who wishes he could Sprinkle "Invisible Dust" on HISTORY to make it DISAPPEAR ~
            
            It appears as if "interpretations" of Mr Carson's comments are as accurate as "Generously LOOSE Interpretations" of the 2cnd Amendment ~
            
            How many RE-Writes did it take the Good Doctor Carson to SHAPE-SHIFT his Disasterous Minority Bashing Comment down to his "Personal Choice"? Arriving at what he honestly believes to be a MORE Politically Correct Answer when in REALITY, it Actually EXACERBATES his Discriminatory Tendencies ~ If of course he even said that ~
            
            If true, do you Realize what it implies? Who else in that little mind of his would he DISCRIMINATE Against due to Creed, Color, Religious Denomination, Age etc?
            
            I've heard only 2 VERSIONS pertaining to the same idiotic topic, in Paraphrase Dr. Ben Carson Actually said the FOLLOWING ~ "Muslims should NOT be allowed to become President of the U.S." and "Muslims should RENOUNCE Sharia Law BEFORE Running for Office" ~ NOW, if we are to believe what you say, there's even ANOTHER VERSION? ~
            
            If this is what he thinks of Muslims, what does he truly think of Hispanics, Un-Docummented Immigrants, Asians, African Americans, Women, Senior Citizens, or any other group of Americans who are NOT Extremely WEALTHY?

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         ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Alternative prime , I'll play your weak , demonstratively ranting , partisan ,baiting ,game of ultra-liberals , responding to your rants are  fun .  No  ,by  western social-political standards ,  a Muslim shouldn't be president . An Americanized  Muslim - that's different , we already have one .   
         
         As to legal immigration , I don't care who's allowed in ,  but the illegal influx from the south must be controlled and if you don't understand that -  you're lack of geo-political  -socio well being and understanding of our nation is grossly evident.! To say nothing about your lack of  understanding of politics and the human condition in central ,south America .
         
         Ever ask yourself How many people die  crossing lower central ,south American borders . Before they even get to the American border? . Take the rose colored glasses off , expand your social,  political intelligence !

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