Ashkenazi Jews - who are they?

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   lrohnerposted 14 years ago

   I know very little about the Jewish faith other than they don't believe in Jesus, they speak Yiddish, and they study the Torah. I get that. But what are the Ashkenazi Jews all about? I've run into a bunch of them recently and have no idea where they're coming from. Oh, and they're not very forthcoming about it.

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      Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      many Jewish people do believe in The Mashiach a He is know in Hebrew. these are called Messianic Jews.
      they usually have a congregation that has Goyim (people from non Hebrew decent) and are called in English Gentiles.
      They do not practice typical Christian things, they rather worship like they did in ancient times, or as much as they can.
      
      more on them here
      http://www.bendavidmjc.org/
      
      Yahshua (Jesus) was The King of The Jews and did not come to start Christianity, so when this happened much of the Jewishness of worshiping Him was lost to invented replacements from men who disliked Jews.
      
      more here on the differences
      http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm

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         lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         THANK YOU! I've met so many of them this past week and feel uncomfortable because I have no idea of what they're about. They're not very forthcoming and sometimes not very friendly, but I know they are devout and I appreciate that and really want to understand where they're coming from.
         
         I met these folks in an area where they are, well, basically, inbreeding which is causing them medical problems. Can't find anything in the info you sent. I'm living side by side with them right now and would love to have a better understanding.

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         goodfriendiamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There's a man on TV that is a messianic Jew, Sid Roth the program is called Its supernatural. I use to watch him, I enjoyed his programs about Quantum faith. I found it very interesting.

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   relacheposted 14 years ago

   And you don't know how to type "Ashkenazi Jews" into a search engine?

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      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        And why Can't you be kind enough to answer ?

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks so much, Relache. I wouldn't have expected for you to answer any differently. Unfortunately, the rest of us aren't robots and want to speak to real people.

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   tantrumposted 14 years ago

   Askhenaz is the hebrew name for Germany, So it's the name for jews descendants from that people. jews from Poland, Rumania and all western Europe are called askhenazi as well.As i'm not a jew I don't know if there are religious differences.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, Tantrum. I've just met quite a few of them this past week, and I'm trying to figure out exactly what makes them differerent (in realitstic terms -- without having to decipher endless Torah passages)

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         tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           Well, they are very reserved, don't talk much with foreigners. You have to approach them kindly and seriously. They are very kind and well educated. You're going to like them. Nice people !

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            wow, you answered exactly what I was asking!  I've had problems connecting with them, which is strange for me. I guess that's why I'm so obsessed. They seem very much in control of their surroundings, very intelligent, but don't want to share or communicate. Hmmm...

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               tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                 Don't be too pushy, they don't like that. Respect them and be kind. They will appreciate it.

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                  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Why do I see the men and Rabbis all the time, but not the women? And why do the guys seem so, well, like the rest of us aren't worthy? I mean, I'm really interested, but heck. I've met a lot of Amish folks the past few weeks who are so open, but not the Ashkenazi. I'm intrigued, curious and would love to really get to know them.

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   According to Genesis 10, Noah had three sons:
   
       * Ham, forefather of the southern peoples (Hamitic Africa)
       * Shem, forefather of the middle peoples (Semitic)
       * Japheth, forefather of the northern peoples (Japhetic Eurasia)
   
   The names of these sons are thought to have significance related to Semitic roots. Ham means "warm".[1] Shem merely means "name" or "renown", "prosperity".[2] Japheth means "open".[3]
   
   Shem is held to be founder of the Semitic peoples. Religious Jews and Arabs consider themselves sons of Shem through Arpachshad (thus, Semites).

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So where do the Ashnenazi Jews come in??? And I have to admit, they seem somewhat aloof, righteous and arrogant, but that is no deterrent from me wanting to know about their faith. And how big/small is their community?

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         tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           They are not arrogant!! Read above what i wrote

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, I want to learn, but I don't get it -- at least where they're not arrogant. Because they certainly act that way. I know there is more to them, but really don't understand. I have another 30 days or so to spend, and would love to start a conversation with them, but they seem unapproachable. Would appreciate advice.

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         Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The Jewish Virtual Library says "Before World War II Ashkenazi Jewry comprised 90% of the global total. The destruction of European Jewry drastically reduced their number and to some extent their proportionate preponderance. With the isolation of Russian Jews from world Jewry, the United States became the main center of Ashkenazi Jews." This is in comparison to Sephardim Jews.
         http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso … 01462.html
         
         The Encyclopedia of Judaism writes this for Ashkenazim. "Jews tracing their descent from ancestors who settled throughout northwestern Europe in the early Middle Ages; the preponderant section of world Jewry, long distinguishable from Sephardim and "Oriental" Jewish communities by virtue of their folkways, outlook, cultural heritage, and religious traditions. In the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz first denotes a grandson of Japheth and great-grandson of the patriarch Noah (Gen. 10:1-3; I Chr. 1:4-6); it also designates the territory of a (Scythian?) people located north of Mesopotamia (Jer. 51:27)."
         http://www.answers.com/topic/ashkenazi
         
         So between these two Jewish sources above we see that a very large majority of the world's Jews are not descended from Noah's son Shem (Sem) but from Noah's other son Japheth.  They are not Semites.
         
         Scythia or Khazaria was a land north of the Caucasus Mountains and north of the Black, Caspian and Aral Seas.  The land now comprises of eastern Ukraine, southern Russia and western Kazakhstan.
         
         lrohner to understand their attitude you would have to understand their meaning of the word goym.

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   you might have to search more as tons of stuff has been written.
   where are you? inbreeding? what? hard to believe because this is expressly forbidden for them.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Long story...but at one of the top children's hospitals in the country. My grandbaby is in a NICU ward that has 24 beds. There are I think six couples there, give or take, that are Ashkenazi Jews (I'm pretty sure -- they definitely Jews though) and a few more that are Amish out of all of those babies. Quite a disproportionate amount. The docs told me that there are some groups that only marry within their communities and that makes genetic problems more pronounced.

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   much of what Christianity does today in a service was invented and NOT done by Yahshua (Jesus) or any of His followers or any of the Jews of His time and still not done.
   Christians wanted to remove any and all Jewishness in the service and changed a lot including the day to worship on Sunday.
   not here to bash Christians at all, just a reporter and friend.
   Christians changed the names of all the Holy Days too, and the names of the ceremonies and on and on.
   this was not done by the common people.
   
   remember that Jesus did NOT come to change the service or the worship day or the Jewishness of it all. if He wanted to do that He would have said so.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Shaul, the men I've "somewhat" met are pretty rude. I so respect their beliefs and their commitment, but the more I see them, the more difficult it gets.

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         goodfriendiamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         They remind me of the Amish, that live in my neck of the woods. They (Amish) are very strict, and shun outsiders, because of fear of worldly ways entering there circle. I don't think its a bad thing. I think being on guard is a good thing, for when we begin to relax ourselves then trouble hits, just look at where America is today because of this very reason....

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, it does. Because I'm coming across a large number of Amish as well. But they are so much more approachable. As a matter of fact, I have made some Amish friends that I hope will be friends for a long time. I get them. I'm just floudering about the Ashenazi Jews. And there are so many of them where I'm at right now.

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   where are you at?

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I live in Connecticut. But I have a grandbaby in the Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania where they have a disproportionate amount of babies in distress from Ashenazi and Amish families.

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         tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           From what you're saying, more than askhenazi, that's a kind os sect, like amish. That's not how askhenazis behave

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            These aren't Amish. They behave (to me) more like the ultra-orthodox jews with women in hiding, the big black suits and white shirts, the long, curly sideburns, and black hats. And they seem very arrogant and I really don't want to take that picture away with me about them.

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               tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                 Well, I've met askhenazis in my life and they are not like that at all. The ones I know, don't hide there wives anywhere LOL! Weird !

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                  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  See? All the more reason why I want to know where they're coming from.

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   Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

   Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews
   
   Level: Basic
   
   The pages in this site are written from the Ashkenazic Jewish perspective. Ashkenazic Jews are the Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe and their descendants. Sephardic Jews are the Jews of Spain, Portugal, North Africa and the Middle East and their descendants. Sephardic Jews are often subdivided into Sephardim (from Spain and Portugal) and Mizrachim (from the Northern Africa and the Middle East), though there is much overlap between those groups. Until the 1400s, the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa and the Middle East were all controlled by Muslims, who generally allowed Jews to move freely throughout the region. When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, many of them were absorbed into existing Mizrachi communities in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

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   lrohnerposted 14 years ago

   Methinks the women hide. I see them maybe 2 minutes per day. The men and Rabbis are always present though.

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    Well talk to them. But don't show concern about what they are up to. Understand ?. Only kind and respectful topics and see what happens

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL! And what exactly is Ashkenazi "cool"? 

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    arrogant? do they just not talk to you? rude? in what way?
    they may just be testing you to see if you are really serious about getting to know them.
    they are very on guard and serious.
    once they let you into their world they are very kind.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Religious Jews seem to cluster in my city. Jewish people are scattered amongst other religious believers too, but many choose to live in a single suburb with their own infrastructure of special food etc. I think in Australia there is still some inherent attitude at schools towards the way the devout children  dress, so they tend to go to their own schools for this reason too, although this is slowly changing.
    
    Are these people your neighbors?

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No. We came across each other through unexpected medical circumstances. For the children on my grandbaby's NICU floor, there are a disproportionate number of Ashkenazi Jews and Amish folk. I have grown to LOVE the Amish, (although I'm never gonna be one of them) but the Ashkenazi have me stumped. I'd love to get to know them, but they appear to be very high and mighty and we're not worthy of them.

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry mate, that is a shame. I have trouble with the very idea of religion, but like yourself have met heaps of nice Jews, Hindus, whatever, but the zealots are all the same. Arrogant, aloof and rude in the sure knowledge that you are lesser cos you do not have what looks like a black box of matches strapped on the top of your head! That's how we are I suppose. Shame about that

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I think none of you understand askhenazi . Shame ! If you could only know how intelligent, sensible persons they are ! The wisdom they have ! It's a pitty !

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                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                From what I have seen there is little more than skin deep tolerance from anyone who's god makes them stand apart from the society they live in.

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                Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                you used the word "NONE" of us.
                i ask to be removed from said quote please.
                look at my name, does that indicated something to you?
                i have said nothing bad here about my fellow Jews have i now?

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          goodfriendiamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Just my opinion 1rohner, maybe they are perceiving the same way you are. Maybe they feel you are acting to worthy for them, and so it just follows they are to. I don't know but just a thought.

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    kind of like Clint Eastwood behaves in his movies.
    
    tough on outside, tender inside.

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    sometimes i wonder if mixing people all together is a bad idea?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I like the open society approach. If you all have similar needs because of your beliefs then you are free to move to a place that suits you. Whole suburbs of Melbourne developed that way, with specialist shops moving in and so it is easy to be tolerant living here.

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          Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          yeah where i live it's the same way.
          the Los Angeles area has some people from every single country on the planet and yet most of them live in places where they are all the same.
          so you have the option. when you are work though, everyone is there.

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    Preconcepts... I can't fight them and don't have the patience

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You need advice from a retired zealot!
       People are often rude when they are fixated on their religion.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with that, but that doesn't make them less worthwhile

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             earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Well that is true, but how much time have you got? If they are reasonable, as you are then you can speak and listen with respect. Exclusivity is a choice made by some in religion, and I do not know how to deal with that.

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You don't have to deal with it. Just 'pass'. If someone choses exclusivity it's because they want to be left alone.  If you respect that, they will be polite to you. they're not dumb.

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    Goyim means nations, nothing more, nothing less. anything else added to that is only that...an addition.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       But what does it all mean? I understand Orthodox Jews pretty well. Have known them all of my life -- some more Orthodox than others though!
       
       I somewhat understand Hasidic Jews, but the whole Ashkenazi thing? Nuh uh. Don't get it. Is it just a geographic thing? Are they different?
       
       And BTW, the ones I have met are very, very rude and impolite. They're a little nicer when their Rabbis (I assume that's who they are) are with them, but pretty darn rude the rest of the time.

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          Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          well i am so sorry you encountered this but i have not in my dealings with them. it might just be "these ones" who live "there"
          i live in the Los Angeles area and sometimes when i go to a particular neighborhood i get treated like an outsider but the more i go back the more it fades away when they see i mean no harm.
          we have every race on the planet her too.

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    I give up !

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Aaaaargh! I'm feeling SO blonde right now. I take it by your answer that I've missed something(s) important. I mean, I get what you're saying about their heritage and everything. I get that they're different from the Sephardic Jews. But I'd never even heard of Sephardic Jews before you brought them up.
       
       I read the info on the links you posted, but still don't get the essence of them. I mean, I guess if I were Jewish I could look back on all of the writings in the Torah and Bible and say "Geez, I'm one of God's chosen people. Everyone else is just stupid." And I assume that's where their arrogance comes from. (That and the fact that they're all high-paid doctors and lawyers...)
       
       I'm being as kind as I can be, but they really, really make it very clear to all of those around them that they don't want to talk to anyone who isn't one of their kind. It's pretty off-putting and I just don't get it -- but would like to.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't bring the sephardic jews in topic. I didn't link anything. You're wrong here

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             lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Sorry, Tantrum, I got lost in the all of the quote-replies. (Feeling even MORE blonde now...)

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I like blondes

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    I'm giving up because I don't know what kind of askhenazi are they!

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Okay, just help me with this. Is Ashkenazi a different set of rites, a different faith, or a different heritage. I still just don't get it! I really, really, really want to understand.

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    some and i do mean some....other faiths have people who think everyone else is stupid, but that does not mean it is condoned by the whole of the people of that belief.
    sometimes people cop an arrogant stance as a defense, they have fears.
    i know people from all the races here and they all have little pockets who cannot stand outsiders, but not all of them as a whole feel this way.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Now THAT I understand!

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    the 2 different Jewish "kinds" talk different, use different words to describe the same thing, often just changing a letter or 2.
    they want to distinguish themselves.
    they by and large follow the same teachings though.
    
    if you dig deep i do not think you will find a huge difference.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you, Shaul, for the simple interpretation. I find it so strange because I know quite a few Orthodox Jews, and they're just plain and simple folk like the rest of us. Maybe they have different eating/flatware/dishware habits than the rest of us and maybe they follow different teachings, but they are very, very friendly and open about their faith. These guys I'm meeting? Gosh, I would really love to understand them a bit better. They're all rude as heck from what I see. They think nothing of letting a door shut right in a lady's face (that lady would be me), or making another child in the family waiting room cry or anything. Just rude, rude, rude. Happy to know it's just personal arrogance and not a whole community kind of thing.

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    Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago

    well tell them how you feel !!!

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm a typical "Type-A, Irish-Catholic, Post-Menopausal Female". I wear my heart on my shirtsleeve and am not afraid to express my opinion. But these guys even intimidate me!

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          Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          well then for sure you are not going to hurt them but you'll feel better or just carry it around and who knows, they might respect you more.

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    Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

    An easy question. Ashkenazi Jews descend from Jews who, in the aftermath of the Romans' destruction of the Temple, eventually settled in central through eastern Europe, and there are Ashkenazi Jews in every Jewish denomination from Ultra-Orthodox to Reform.
    
    Also, not all Orthodox Jews are Ashkenazi.
    
    Hope that clears things up for a few.

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    Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

    Actually Valerie not according to the Encyclopedia of Judaism.  Turkic tribes were the original inhabitants of Scythia or Khazaria, not Semites and not from the 12 Tribes.  Arthur Koestler, an Ashkenazi himself wrote a book describing how the Turkic tribes of Khazaria converted to Judaism en mass during the 700's AD.     
    
    

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