Are we headed the way of the Romans in defending our Empire?

1. 72

   rhamsonposted 14 years ago

   There are a lot of theories as to the collapse of the Roman Empire but one that seems to have legs they is that they over extended their resourses for far too many years and in directions that were not profitable for the empire.

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2. 59

   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   If Romans extended their empire in unprofitable directions, they may have thought it necessary for the security of their empire. No profit and loss would have been the aim of rulers of Rome.

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3. 60

   egivposted 14 years ago

   The fall of the Roman Empire was much more complex than spreading themselves too thin, it was more of a transformation, as the capital shifted to Constantinople, than anything. However, there are many comparisons to be made between America and the Romans (in all the arrogance that it takes to say that our achievements are comparable to those of the Romans).

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4. 59

   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   The Romans decisively defeated the north-African empire of Carthage, which never rose again. Did America (USA) at any time defeat any country decisively so far?... single-handedly?

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   1. 61

      nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      We whupped up on Somalia.

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Somalia is still a disturbed country. I remember that some two years ago, 200+ American soldiers were taken hostage by Somali local fighters. Indian peace-keeping soldiers had to rescue them from the warlords.

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5. 59

   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   The Roman government was an oligarchy / monarchy. But America is a Democracy.  Jesus Christ was born in Roman empire which extended beyond Palestine. So the Vatican was established in the Roman capital of Rome. Does this privilege come to America?

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6. 60

   egivposted 14 years ago

   Well obviously the literal comparisons wouldn't do. America doesn't have an 'empire' based on land; our 'empire' is through money and influence. We are by far the most powerful nation in the world, although we have been this way only for about 50 years, whereas the Romans lasted hundreds. We don't conquer nations, we use them, through trade, to get rich. Just ask South America. When countries refuse to trade with us (communists or dictators) we start wars, because being able to use free markets to exploit other nations is the heart of American power.
   
   So, the Roman defeat of Hannibal could be equivalent to the way American coffee corporations got unbelievably rich (and therefore increased American power and wealth) off of the backs of Brazilian farmers. This has happened consistently throughout America's rise, with many different industries. That is why Americans consume so much: because we have so much.
   
   Rome was more honest about it; they just conquered towns, cities and regions and took everything back to Rome, killing anybody in their way. Most of the greatest monuments in Rome are built by generals who just returned from a campaign with the money that they looted.
   
   I think many comparisons can be made.

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7. 72

   rhamsonposted 14 years ago

   I constantly hear "Americas" interests" when our government refers to interaction with other countries.  Another thing that bothers me about our government is the proliferation of our democracy.  We have a republic and a poorly working one at the moment.  It gives me the creeps when I hear the same rhetoric the communists espouse when they talk of spreading communism.  Can we lead by example and not propogandize our desire to have others follow our lead?

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      Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There is a powerful bloc that recognizes that democracy is the stepping stone to socialism and then communism. And they are pushing it forward. If they really wanted to bring freedom to "downtrodden" countries they would espouse the concepts of a free republic. But you're right, they probably don't remember how one works anymore.

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         egivposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That we try to make all other countries like us is certainly true. However, you can't install American democracy in a foreign country, which we are hopefully discovering. They must discover it for themselves or it will never be genuine, it will never work.
         
         I don't think we are even close to turning into socialist or communist; America is clearly terrified of anything associated with those two terms. All that democrats are asking now is that we take care of ALL Americans, not just those of us with enough money to waste time on this website. These are not scary times.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            True. Madame X, checks under her bed for socialists every night and morning.

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8. 0

   Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

   The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
   1)From bondage to spiritual faith
   2)From spiritual faith to great courage
   3)From courage to liberty
   4)From liberty to abundance
   5)From abundance to complacency
   6)From complacency to apathy
   7)From apathy to dependence
   8)From dependency back into bondage.
   
   I believe we are in the 7th step. More and more Americans are expecting their government to supply them with what they need. These are scary times!

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9. 0

   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   Insightful list. I put my faith in the "angry mob"

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      Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And we won't let you down!

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10. 59

    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    Americans, ie, USA can feel proud to be compared to Romans.  But historically, they are no way near them. Romans' pomp and pageantry can be compared only to the Hun empire in China and Mauriyan empire in India. Trade gains and killing of innocents cant be attributed to Romans.

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       Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Are you making a joke? They slaughtered innocent people all the time to maintain their power status.

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          VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Are all "slaughtered or killed" people innocent?  In the absence of a judicial system, they may have decided that people involved in anti-govt. activities as traitors and killed them. But in the case of America, they drop a bomb and kill all the innocent people... like in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Summary bombings will surely kill innocents.... but no other way.

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          1. 60

             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             What makes you think the Romans had no judicial system?

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                VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Was there any court? Were there any lawyers? Were there any defendents and plaintiffs? Judicial system provides for defence of the accused through lawyers...

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                   tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Was it exactly like the lawyer shows you watch on TV now? Gee, I wonder...
                   
                   But the Roman tradition (and the Greek tradition that influenced it) did include a system of justice and greatly influenced what you think of as a system of justice to this day.
                   
                   Start by researching the Justinian Codes and build your historical education from there. It's a long story...

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                      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I am certainly not in need of historical education... many people tend to go personal often. I dont like it. Just let us exchange our views only.

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                         tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Coulda fooled me..

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                      zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Exactly. The Justinian Codes were the beginning of the modern days legal systems... so the one civilization you're putting into question just happens to be the one that STARTED the system. I'm not really sure why myself or anyone are really taking time to give you history lessons...

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                2. 65

                   darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Hahahaha, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaa....
                   
                   I think you may have put an extra 't' in your sentence.
                   
                   
                   I was reading up on Roman Law in an encyclopedia, one of those ones made with paper. But seeing that I can't mail you the volume, I'll grab something from Wikipedia: "Civil law is a legal system inspired by Roman law".

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                   1. 60

                      zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Oh, I see Darkside has mentioned this already. Looks like everyone but the one talking has a clue.

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                      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      If the Civil law was inspired by Roman law, the Roman law should be based on some other law. It may be based on the first known written law, the Code of Hammurabi, written in mudslabs by a Babylonian king.

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                      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Sorry, if it is wrong. God forgive me for my "sin".

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          2. 0

             Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             No other way? Yes, plenty of other ways. The assumption that the Romans marched into a village and "only killed the soldiers"  - without killing other young men, without raping and killing the women, without killing the children to destroy the fabric of society of that village in order to maintain their dominance, is naive at best, and deliberately ignoring history.
             
             If you want to blame America for everything go ahead and do so. But at least get your facts straight.

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                VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I am not inclined to blame America for anything... because it is the only guarantee for a free world.  But let Americans not underestimate others and make fun of others.

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11. 71

    AEvansposted 14 years ago

    Interesting I wrote about this in a hub a few weeks ago
    
    http://hubpages.com/_dwn4bbs4rxf1/hub/T … Perception  are you trying to decide if my perception is right or wrong? lololo

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    1. 72

       rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I read your treatise on this subject and I have to agree with most of what you say but I can't help but feel the treachery we have done to other countries puts us on course for much more.
       
       When our economic dominance fades more than it has and we are unable to pay, what will the actions of the military include.  We are slowly becoming the bullies of the world and this is a dangerous trail to go down.

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12. 72

    rhamsonposted 14 years ago

    I guess my intent in posing the question initially was to draw comparisons to the "Fall" of our greatness to the Roman Empire.  There seems to be a lot of literal definitions of the societies comparisons but I was wondering if anyone else saw a comparison to the two empires.  If some of you object to refering to us an empire just refer to our continued presence in Germany, Okinawa, Korea, Cuba and such.

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       We are in Germany, Korea, and Japan because they want us there.

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13. 0

    sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

    We don't have an Empire.

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14. 60

    turgumanposted 14 years ago

    i think oppression is the key word for all collapsed empires

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