I asked this earlier; who will admit to know longer supporting Obama a

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Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years ago
With his poll approval dropping, there must be someone here that is in this catagory.
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  grneisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What strength do polls have actually except to influence public opinion? Sadly people are like sheep and swallow the strangest things because "somebody" said so. (Have to menton Death Panels.)I continue to support Obama because the man has more intelligence in his big toe than all of the pundits, much of the congress, Media, and other would-be prognasticaters. It has been only a little over a year and I believe more time is needed to plow through the muddle that he has found himself in. It is more difficult because the opposition is so vocal and strong, and, sadly again, not for the American People's welfare, but for political gain and/or money and power. Patience! It is not his game to tip his hand and give more amunition to those who seek to destroy his position. They jump on every little bump and burp and make and issue of it.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  grneis,
  
  Why do you think Obama is so intelligent? He started out in Jr. college, has blocked his records at Columbis (never made honor roll), blocked his records at Harvard and even blocked his high school records. Yet he has to provive his IRS records.
  
  Editor of Harvard Law Review: Never wrote an article.
  
  Illinois Senate: Voted present mostly.
  
  Ran for Congress: Lost to ex-Black Panther-Community organizer Bobby Rush by a 2-1 margin.
  
  Scandals on the Republican candidate helped him get to the U.S Senate. He was only there 127 days and did not vote often when he announced his candidacy for President.
  
  He uses failed practices in the way he governs. He has no knowledge of history. His views are from communist books. He doesn't write his speeches, he reads them very well.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the question you should be asking is when will the two major political parties give us something better to vote for?
  
  Neither party is equipted to give us a candidate who will work for the people and not the lobbyist and big business.
  
  I have voted for candidates of either party and in the last election was made to hold my nose when I walked in the booth to vote. McCain was a horrible candidate of the no change ilk while Obama was the candidate of something different. The same was killing us and some change was called for.
  
  If you want to judge the Obama administration on the short year he has been in office then I guess that is your right but is it really based on what has been accomplished or sour grapes?
  
  If a mistake has been made then I guess the Republicans had better get a better change candidate.
  
  I think the biggest problem the Republicans need to worry about now is a split with the Tea Baggers and what could result from that in the next election.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There could be a combination.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, me - me - meeee.....
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  cos,
  
  At least you have seen the error of your ways, my child. Why can't others admit it?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Harvey,
  
  You want a direct answer to your question.
  
  I will admit to no longer supporting ANY and ALL politicians, presently in office.
  
  Is that what you wanted?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll happily admit to not supporting Obama, but then, I never have! Why would anyone support a socialist?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What does one have to do with the other? Maybe yur confused.
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  mintinfoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not an American but I admire his rise to power. It must be good to have friends in high places. It's not what you , it's who you know.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you admire the rise to power of one more puppet of the elitists of the world?
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So I'm taking it you haven't supported a president for a while now?
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, I have voted, but never with great enthusiasm.
  
  sides just keep switching...there is something at work here beyond our perceptions trying to get us to see the bigger picture...sometimes I see it, sometimes not.
  
  i was just as shocked as everyone else when Obama became another cog in the machinery, another puppet on a string...its a shame too. But then again all presidents have had potential
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is entirely your perception. Overall I think he is doing a good job, considering what he had to deal with. I as an American have always considered it my privilege to vote, and wonder why other Americans do not realize in some countries you are fined if you do not show up to the polling booth. If people want to make a difference I would like to see them run for president because I have a feeling Obama is doing a better job than many of the complainers would.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, all life is perception... to each their own.
  knowledge with heart = wisdom experience and vision =wisdom
  wishes and desires don't equal wisdom
  
  you won't find a greater patriot than me and i am still learning, and discerning...life is a great adventure for the soul...my soul is having a life full of experiences
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not questioning your patriotism. really people can be whatever they want to be.
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  mintinfoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the Elite are a necessary evil that keep the world out of a state of chaos. I usually don't engage in futile arguments because it is apparent to me that the average person does not know that the elite class run America and the world. The Republicans and the Democrats are the same. When they finish arguing in the House they sit together and gamble and drink martinis. They are all puppets for big Banks and Corporations. If Americans want real change the electoral system should be opened up. Not like Israel that has hundreds of Parties but maybe only three or four. That way more real issues will come to the table and be addressed.
  
  Obama is an underdog that maneuvered his way to the top of a corrupt system. His agenda was not a secret so if (the people who matter) didn't like him he wouldn't be where he is.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  he didn't maneuver, he was vetted and paid for, to his way to the top by those that created a corrupt system
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blue dogposted 14 years ago
did you not receive the answer you were looking for the first time you asked?

i'll wait until you ask the seventh time before answering.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Some people never learn, until it hits them.
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rosariomontenegroposted 14 years ago
I don't know about his approval rate. I do know that one of the things that people that voted for him criticized him for was the bailout of taxpayer money to the financial institutions. Well, the year is not yet over and from the 199 billion lent, something like 113 billion has already been returned to the Nation's Treasury, with interests.

If I were him I would pay no attention to approval rates.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  rosario,
  
  What has happened to our debt and unemployment? A couple of examples. Most jobs created are in gov't. Doesn't he run that? The Unions are heavily represented on the companies boards the gov't has taken over. What do union leaders know about creating jobs?
  
  He is for big business, as long as gov't owns it.
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Mitch Rappposted 14 years ago
The answer to your question is millions of people regret their decision to vote for prez zero. But just as they made a weak minded judgment they are still exhibiting weakness in not admitting their complicity in this National nightmare!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mitch,
  
  He has kept his promises to unions, that's why business will continue to flop. Americans are showing how ignorant they are;all they have to do is check into the truth about FDR.
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  donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You got it. Nobody wants to admit it. What we have here is a case of "groupthink" (a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group)Def. from Wikepedia. In other words, everyone's mind is convinced he's the best thing there is. Remember the Emporer's New Clothes? "Why, the Emporer's wearing nothing but his underwear!" It took the mind of a child to open everyone's eyes.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought the Emperor was naked, like so many minds.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This type of black and white thinking is very insulting to people in general and Obama supporters in particular. You know, it's possible to not agree with everything someone does and still support their efforts. It's possible to understand that the issues facing our country are complex and entrenched and can't be solved in less than one year. It's possible to disagree with someone and still respect their ideas and hope that they work.
  
  But then, that would require subtlety of thought, wouldn't it?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is what you put in place at the beginning that gives you building blocks. His choices for cabinet and advisers ar poor. Now we have to live with things put in place by Holder and Napolitano. Van Jones is kind of bye-bye, now with SEIU. I forget who looks to Mao Tse Dong, but she's still there. Too many admitted communists and socialists. Doesn't that bother an AMERICAN!
  
  You must also note our debt, unemployment, gov't run businesses, etc. Yes, he gave you what you wanted!
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livelongerposted 14 years ago
Of course not. Obama has pretty much done exactly what he promised to do. Those who were imagining he'd do something different from what he said are naturally going to be disappointed.

A related question I have:
considering her antics over the past year, have McCain/Palin supporters come to admit Palin would have been an utter disaster had her ticket been elected in 2008 (or are they still clinging to their fantasy that she's competent and honest)?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you know what they have done.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
mmmmmmm, spell check

Homer Simpson
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Harv, I've seen posters on other threads who said they were sorry they voted for Obama.

I'll admit when I'm wrong. When I first learned about Palin, I thought she was awesome. The more I learned, however, the less I liked her. I still don't hate her or think she's a bad person, I just don't think she's ready for "prime time." I've always liked McCain, however. I wanted him instead of Bush in 2000.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That'xs all in the past, we have no idea what they would have done. Though I would feel more secure with McCain.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect, Harvey; I would feel more secure with a candidate that got in office on his own.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who has done that this century.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And that is where I rest my case.
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joeonhubposted 14 years ago
Harvey...

Dumbest things Presidents and Parties have had our nation do;

#1 Cuba embargo!
#2 Palin running for Vice President
#3 Iranian embargo
#4 North Korean Embargo

Best moves so far Parties and Presidents or not;

#1 Jesus, Ghandi, King, Mandella and all the rest who push us to be good to thy neighbor.
#2 Habeus Corpus, before that.. Romans and there republic idea
#3 US Constitution, Declaration of Independence
#4 Civil Rights acts, Lincoln, King included.
#5 the invention of the internet and our nations support of keeping it accessible (this blogsite and wikipedia)

Now Obama... smart... I would like to see you debate that man for an hour... You would at least learn to respect him I think.

McCain.. sorry... elders are great to keep in the senate for long term memory and some conservative push. But.... come on now... not President. I would be fore an amendment that says no one can run for the Presidency who is older than 50. I love McCain and Palin too for that matter. Palin is now learning much more about the Country level governance... she in my opinion would be a good senator at this point in her career or better yet stay where she is... speaking out for her causes.

One more about Obama... You listen to his Nobel Peace Prize speach and tell me you think he is a box of rocks and unfit for international leadership! It my opinion that speach will go down in history along with many of his speaches as groundbreakingly on point and right for the times. How about his racism speach. Lincoln, Churchill,Kennedy,there are just a few great speaches amongst the thousands we all know by some great leaders that pushed the human cause positively forward.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Joe,
  
  The man is an excellent reader; do you think he writes those speeches, ha? I would be happy to debate him and I know of many others that would do the same. NO TELE-PROMPTER! The man has proven he does not know history. Repeating the bad does not help.
  
  You must be young and have a lot to learn. Like Obama, experience would be a good thing. He has been caught in far more lies than Nixon!
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  blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha!
  
  the obama vs stelman debate.
  
  i can't wait.
  
  unfortunately, i'll have to.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's too bad, truth vs lie.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You probably should stick with debating people like Dan Quayle. Just because you're so damn angry at Obama doesn't mean you can match his intellect. What's your real agenda, anyway?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Joe,
  
  I do not want socialism, forced labor unionism, George Soros, an apoligetic President that bows to others, and so much more.
  
  I want capitalism, the US Constitution, advisors to the President that pay their taxes and are not communists or look to Mao, a President that keeps in contact with his military leaders, a President that does not have to be on TV every day, etc.
  
  Am I so wrong for this? I have always been a Centrist for these beliefs, now I called a right winger. Doesn't being pro-abortion disqualiy me for that?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've never heard of a person describing himself as "pro-abortion".
  
  Bravo sir, bravo.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Should he have said Pro-Death,Anti-Life?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  English 101. January 2, 2010.
  
  Pro Abortion - Being in favor of abortions.
  
  Pro Choice - Supporting a woman's right to have a safe abortion if she chooses.
  
  See the difference?
  
  Also, there were two different actors who played Darren on "Bewitched"
  
  Tune in tommorrow for more fun facts.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think I may have to skip the class. Pro Abortion is exactly what Pro Choice is, they are certainly not Anti Abortion, are they?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they certainly can be, and often are. Are you sure you want to end your education at this early stage of life?
  
  When you use a term like pro-abortion in public, you are showing more of yourself than you realize.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they are Pro Choice what exactly are the choices? I really don't think you could teach me much unless I need a class in one liners over substance.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At least do some reading before you post. I'm trying to help man; it's like seeing someone with their fly undone. Alerting them is the responsible thing to do.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate it I really do. But you haven't answered the question, If someone is Pro choice what exactly are the choices? I think I understand why you don't answer it but you should give it your best shot.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you play chess?
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the enlightening look into your view on words.
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  jjmylesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about that speech writer? Pretty awesome. To bad Obama needs someone else to put words in his mouth to make him sound good instead of "um um um" But that being said, Yes I'm so sorry For my part in electing a man that Is trying to do away with most of our constitution.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Abraham Lincoln may be the last president who didn't have a speech writer. Obama is a very busy man. He writes and speaks extemporaneously with great eloquence. Compared to Obama, Bush was a kindergartener. Bush had trouble even reading his speeches coherently.
  
  What parts of our Constitution is Obama tryin do to away with? Just curious.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Newsflash- Bush is no longer President!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Mitch!
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're very welcome.
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Obama a good speaker.......haha
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
I voted for the guy. The rest is up to him.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Denno,
  
  Yes it is; I restmy case.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He has quite a mess to clean up; not that he's helping any either.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All President's have things to clean up. Obama makes a lot of things dirtier.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I'm attempting to remain neutral as I feel our government is a sham at best; I won't throw my lot with any side on this issue. Just because I voted for the President doesn't mean I agree with him, I just agree less with McCain's Party. A sad commentary on choosing eenie meenie miney mo without any real expectation of any success.
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  blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  where were you from 2000-'08? visiting another planet? if so, you missed out on an awful lot of mess.
  
  heard of iraq? afghanistan? pd-51? military commissions act? enron? rising property taxes? decreasing property values? recycling bubble? 4.00/gallon gasoline? monsanto's rise to glory? shock and awe? plastic sheeting and duct tape? yellow ribbons? do you have a comprehension of the bush family's connection to weapons manufacturing?
  
  a-f******-mazing.
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jessicabposted 14 years ago
We will never get a President that is perfect, there is negative and postive things about every President and all have polls dropping. Polls just something a group of people vote on its not the majority of the people in the United States. The econonmy is in a hot mess and now everyone must pull together and stop waiting on the government for handouts. Its alright to receive help from the government but do it yourself also.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jessi,
  
  Don't talk majority and Obama, that's an oxymoron.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Um, okay. And with that I'm going to part company; take care all.
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
I support Obama, and still support him.....why simply because I dont know anything wrong that he did...and I still believe in democratic governance
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dogluver1posted 14 years ago
I knew from the start that I didn't like him. I do not support him. These are going to be 4 long years.....
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The 2010 election will help, by 2012 it's bye-bye B.O.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  dog,
  
  Being from Illinois, I knew he was just a packaged product.
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Bill Manningposted 14 years ago
Obama was, and is, the best president we had the choice to vote for. These days we all vote for the best of the worst. I don't think he's perfect, but he was the best choice we were offered.

Show me someone better next election and I'll vote for that person. Otherwise I'll vote for Obama again.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry I am no longer going to run ut there will be many others. If you like Socialism and Communism stay with B.O. If not, start in the 2010 elections.
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous, pathetic statement. I hear some buildings in America are 'communist,' too. Better stay away from 'em!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bill,
  
  I pay you get a better choice in your mind, unless you want socialism.
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Bard of Elyposted 14 years ago
I never supported him to begin with!
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bard,
  
  You my friend, are a wise man. You probably listened to him.
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sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago
It doesn't make any difference which politician holds the presidency. They all report to the same masters. This is why nothing ever really changes, (except the steady erosion of personal liberty, and the steady move towards globalisation and a World Govt) and if anyone DARES to try to initiate real change, they are promptly assasinated, have a fatal accident or commit "suicide".

I don't think BO cares a hoot about his popularity. He cares about advancing the agenda of his masters, and on that score, he is doing very well indeed. He really is a super, super salesman.

JFK was the last one who tried to be a real president, and look what happened to him.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sann,
  
  Did you know JFK couldn't get anything passed, with a Democratic Congress. Johnson pushed it aa through.
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … h-20100102
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Star Witnessposted 14 years ago
The opposition here does not respect studies, education, or proof of ability, so I'm afraid the above link will go unread. All they care about is Fox News marketing, hearsay, and spouting off what the quote, quote, "common" people really want.

In short--the opposition bellyachers do not seem qualified to trust with the vote, frankly. But then demagogues rely on this to come to power.

Depressing, really.
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  We Conservativesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It seems you may be speaking the truth. For the last three years of the Bush Presidency all I heard from the opposition was bellyaching and demagoguery, it was in fact quite pathetic and the result is a wholly unqualified man in the White House.
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It seems this is more of the same "the sky is red, it really is," rhetoric that got us into the economic situation we are currently in. Hey, you've got nothing on Goebbels.
  
  And of course, don't forget not to thank the Obama Admin. as we slowly come out of it and right ourselves again.
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  We Conservativesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see, comparing people to Nazi's is the left-wings idea of cognizant thought. I give up, you win, good luck with that recovery.
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More black = white uh, rhetoric.
  
  And doing better than fine here personally, thanks. I also read the news and pay attention to the markets. Apparently, you do not. What ever happened to boot straps and that sort of thing on that side? Oh, yeah, those ideas left with all the bright people on that side of the aisle.
  
  I'm not interested or even think it is cognizant thought to expect the president to produce jobs for me to work. Good luck with your mindset.
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  atilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea, ummmmm,LOL, uh
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Hmmm, so this is leading to: Sarah Palin 2012, yes?
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha. Yeah, we can only hope, .
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Goebbels, huh? You know they nicknamed him the Poison Dwarf?
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
I thought I saw photos of Neo-cons holding pictures of the President with an itty bitty Hitler moustache. I'm just saying.....
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, bingo.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
I loved the reel with Rep. Barney Frank talking to that woman holding the Adolf Obama picture; that was classic!
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Star Witnessposted 14 years ago
My favorite was a recent South Park episode portraying the opposition rubes rebuttal as blinking and staring, saying "Uhhh, they took our jobs," endlessly. Hahaha. If you catch my drift.

Classic. The writers are genius!
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And Baseketball was an Oscar worthy film, Beavis and Butthead shared the Best actor award? It must be fun living in your head!
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen enough of your work on the forums, sir. I do hope you are self-employed, . (ie, name an Oscar winning film of the last decade, your favorite director, and why?)
  
  Sincerely, though. Happy New Year. I've spent enough time on this loony bin forum.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant rebuttal. By the way its sycophantic, I would expect an author of your caliber to know that, but I guess not. Toodles
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'Sarcasm' is a good word and definition to know, . So is 'sympathetic.' Hey, but I dig 'sycophantic.' Cool big word choice...SO matches the rest of the voice inherent. Might wanna start with adequate use of punctuation and ending sentence splice statements, however.
  
  I think some recently come here just to be unpleasant...passes for political discussion, I guess.
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  atilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But you would never do that would you? LOL,Uh Ummmmmmm
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  blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, but you've got to admit to a sadistic pleasure in watching them string together two, three, and now four syllable words. who knows, maybe soon he'll be able to produce a hub as stimulating as his first.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad you liked it. It sure is nice being recognized for ones talent, I'm sure others recognize you for what you are.
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
so, that was an answer, correct? Harvey, was that an answer? Was that sanctioned by the Right? Hello? Mind if I help myself to some Cheetos while I'm here?
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Harvey? Why have you forsaken us? I'm just kidding; I'm dying to see the responses.
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
I support OBAMA, as the President of this country and winning a majority vote, and unless until the Cingress and Senate impeached HIM< am here to support HIM
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Friendlywordposted 14 years ago
Only a homicidal maniac would be Pro-Abortion. Nobody wants to have an abortion. No one wants to perform an abortion. Stop being silly Dude.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If no one wants an abortion why are so many performed?
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mitch, have you ever had unprotected sex?
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only with my wife
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  For real???
  You went from twelve years old to married with children?
  Do you have a statue in your Honor?
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess I didn't give the answer you wanted and it led to this bit of nonsense, sorry man I was coming up at the time AIDS was rearing its ugly head. I acted responsible, I know, liberals hate people like me.
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not me, I love you. I think you deserve a statue right next to Mother Mary.
  The rest of us; being human and all.., make mistakes and have to make very hard CHOICES sometime.
  Do you know women who intentionally get pregnant just to have an abortion?
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't think this will turn out well for you, you said "Nobody wants to have an abortion." clearly you are wrong because women have them done everyday because they WANT one! If your point is no one sets out to get pregnant just to have an abortion, well, you may be right, maybe. There are all kinds of sick people in this World!
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are right again. This in not going well. And I'm running. Zoom!!!
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
Uh Oh! Now you've done it.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, I'm more anti rude than anti pro choice. Unless its to those who deserve the rudeness, but you seem to be on those peoples side.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
See?
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flread45posted 14 years ago
Go Dogs
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
Oh, I was so waiting for a response from the sponsor. No malice here, Harvey; I enjoy the replies to these oftentimes heated discussions. I guess everyone just got too pooped. This place could use some bowls of Cheetos, I'm just saying.....
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Pro-choice does not necessarily mean pro-abortion.

I am pro choice but I would probably not choose to personally get an abortion (if that was still a choice for me).
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, what are the choices then? Seems to me to be only two, life or death or destruction of the fetus if you prefer.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The choice is up to the person who makes it...
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's true but its not what I asked, what are they choosing?
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Denno66posted 14 years ago
So, where is Harvey?
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
They are choosing whether or not to give birth. Everyone's reasons are their own.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're gonna step all around this. Ok, they are choosing between an abortion or giving birth, if the choice is abortion then they are pro abortion. There is no third choice!
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Yes Ralph, you can run down Clinton, you can run down Carter, you can run down FDR, but you can't run down Bush because he is no longer president.
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Well, of course if someone chooses to have an abortion they are pro abortion. However, as I said, I am pro choice but I would never consider having an abortion.
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you would never have an abortion but its okay if other people want to, is that what you r saying?
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If that is their choice, yes.
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I would never beat my kids to death but I guess if other people want to do then thats okay........
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because that is illegal...
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's Pro Abortion
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The idea of being Pro choice is being Pro abortion, there is no other alternative. I know you don't want to admit I'm right but I am.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it is not. It is to do with a woman's choice of what to do with her body.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again, what are the choices? Life or Death! You as a pro choice supporter support abortion.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sigh...........
  
  No overnight mastery of the language then huh?
  
  Only living organisms can die.
  
  No one outside of a few looney brain-washed right-wing wackos uses a non-term like pro-abortion. Using it identifies where your "knowledge" comes from.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're still pitching a no hitter I see.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hard to pitch to a midget. That's why MLB put in the minimum height rule. Maybe HP should do the same?
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you are the giant? Pro choice=Pro Abortion just as Pro-life is Anti-Abortion, keep throwing balls you may get a strike eventually!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In a world where Palin could be elected president, you would be right. (hell, you would be king) but in reality (you've at least heard of this right?) you are making a fool of yourself.
  
  Sad
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hell of an argument you have, I'll just consider that a surrender!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In your world it probably is. Thanks for playing, better luck next time. Hopefully for your sake, Glenn, Rush, et al will prepare you better next time.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
This is going in circles. I am pro choice...end of discussion.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are going in circles, that's the logic of liberal ideas.
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Mitch Rappposted 14 years ago
By the way UW, I am not anti abortion, I'm just seeing what it is for what it is!
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Well, I don't believe in breast implants either but I would not say that someone else should not get them.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I guess
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  breast implants doesnt kill another persons life. I dont know why you would even compare the two.
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SweetiePieposted 14 years ago
Find it slightly misinformed about the history of fertility and birth control if people truly believe women never performed home abortions in the past. That is right: some of your ancestors probably had one because they could not afford another child, etc. I am pro-choice and would not get an abortion myself, but through the history of the world women have terminated their pregnancies behind closed doors. Unfortunately the side effects to these home abortions could result in extreme hemorrhaging and death for the mother, so is it not preferable in our modern world that they seek these in hospitals. People will still perform abortions even if the zealots in the US moved to make these illegal again. The ramifications of this would be rise of seedy "doctors," and at home procedures.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Translation I am Pro Abortion!
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously spoken like a conservative hardliner that would rather see a woman bleed to death in a seedy back room clinic, rather than receive proper care and advice from a doctor.
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SweetiePieposted 14 years ago
In a modern society where a woman is open to make choices about her body she is much more likely to make the best decision for herself. If you make abortion illegal, you are not going to take away her ability to obtain one. The same logic with with Prohibition here in the US wherein the government made it illegal, and resulted in the rise of bootleggers and many other seedy closed door activities. Just because you make something illegal does not mean people are going to stop engaging in a particular act. It is much safer and more logical to give a woman choices.

The same people who are pro-life are resolutely against Family Planning, and proper sex education for teens. They do not want to teach high school kids how to properly use condoms, and some communities decry school nurses and health aides giving these out. Then these people get highly irritated when people seek abortions for unplanned pregnancies, when any cognizant populace would understand that with better birth control education there would be far fewer unwanted pregnancies. Telling teens to abstain from sex is like telling an alcoholic to quit drinking at a bar that passing out free martinis, it just does not work.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize no one is advocating for abortions to be illegal here, don't you?
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually that is exactly what you have implied by saying it is wrong for a woman to obtain one.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never said that! I said that Pro choice is Pro Abortion! Nice try though.
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I did not try, simply stated the facts. Find it extremely ridiculous that you tell others what to believe. Mitch, maybe you should stop telling other people how they should be, and start focusing on your own thoughts.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is English your first language? You do not seem to have a grasp of this conversation so please refrain from using me in your replies, thank you in advance.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we can all agree murder is wrong, correct?
  I think we can also agree, that ALL INDIVIDUALS have a right to the protections afforded them by the constitution, to LIFE, LIBERTY, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Yes?
  
  The only question then is WHEN should a FETUS be considered an individual WORTHY of those protections? This is the question that needs to be settled, but politicians lack the courage to do so and others well are okay with murder.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Already happened, over 30 years ago. You must have missed the memo.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  making some act legal in human eyes, doesn't make it legal in spiritually divine eyes...
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you are saying the government should stop people doing with their own bodies as they see fit? Men are always so positive in these discussions as to what should be done.
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  SweetiePieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have quite a few limitations on understanding this issue. It is not about politicians, but about provided adequate health care if a woman decides to get an abortion. Making it illegal will not change the fact women will do this behind closed doors. As I said in generations past it was not unknown for women to have home remedies they passed around to terminate their pregnancies. In our modern world I would hate to see a young person do something like this just because a few people want to argue over what others should do with their bodies.
  
  Anyway, I really think this should be up to the individual. I am pro-choice, but I would never get an abortion myself. As a citizen of the US I have to respect others rights to own handguns, but I think the need to own these is bizarre. Many people will say they feel it is their right to aim and fire at any intruder, which to me is just scary. On a personal level I would never kill anyone or anything, but I always find it ironic that the people who are pro-gun ownership are usually anti-abortion. They are so worried about a woman killing her baby, but they are not worried if they were to kill should intruder, which in some cases might be a teenage kid. Interesting logic.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny you think I'm the one with limits on understanding the issue. I never said women shouldn't have a right to get an abortion, but one's rights to prsue happiness ends when they infringe upon those of another entitled to the same. Keep in mind it is the PURPOSE of governemnt to ensure that ALL individuals rights are protected, that is why it's so important to define what an INDIVIDUAL is especially as it pertains to a fetus. Should a woman have a right to abort a fetus up to the day before her scheduled delivery? An hour before? A minute before? A second before?
  
  Naturally we all will have different views on that, but what should the government's view be in terms of the constitution and in the use of public funds to pay for such a proceedure?
  
  As far as the right to bear arms, well. don't you have a right to defend yourself and your family? Would you just stand by and watch as your child was violated in front of you by an intruder? Would you stand by and wait until you had a moment to call the police, or would you try to reason with the intruder as they assaulted your family before your eyes? How about if the intruder was an agent of a tyrannical government? Would you do nothing as they slit the throats of your family?
  I don't own a gun, and never have, but there is good reason for our founders putting that right into our constitution and I will gladly fight and die to see that it stays there, because no matter who rules over us, we all have a right to protect ourselves from evil and until evil no longer exists then we need that protection.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you show me how I'm back tracking?
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Here's some interesting and frightening historical perspective on the current looney tunes conspiratorial crapola about Obama.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea … nightmares
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
How can I show someone anything when they refuse to see?

I could show you a blue sky, you would say it is black because to you it is.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, at least show me where I said abortions should be illegal. If you can't (and you can't) try a new tactic.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sigh........
  
  Please go watch your Glen DVD's or something....
  
  YOU equated abortions with causing intentional death.
  
  Causing intentional death is illegal.
  
  Your argument, even if you are unable to articulate it, is that abortions should be illegal.
  
  Please state for the record that you support legalized abortions in spite of your previous posts that clearly indicate otherwise.
  
  There's a free dittohead coffee mug in it for you.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Show where I have equated abortion with causing intentional death! You are going to have to try harder to prove your assertion, just cuz you say it don't make it so!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct, the sky is black...
  
  everything will be ok now...sleep...sleep..sleep
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I am correct, now back to the regular scheduled programming!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which in your case is glenhanilimb-palooza.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be better than the rerun of "Ron is wrong"
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
Ah, but the laws of the US and other Western countries is not based on religious belief.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  religion laws and spiritual laws can have two different definitions
  
  US Constitutional laws are based in spiritually divine laws
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, maybe some spritual basis but Western countries do not pass laws based on what is written in the Bible...or at least they should not. They do that and they are no better than the Taliban.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, sorry to disappoint you but that is what the US Constitution in based on....Universal Laws....the problem is people's perception of those Laws...not the Laws themselves.
  
  The Founding Father's had a good sense of the correctness of those Laws... some current peoples have lost that good common sense. or rather confused the definitions of that good common sense of the Laws
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean by "spiritually divine laws?"
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, you know, things like the sun comes up and sets each day. summer turns to fall, fall to winter and winter to spring.
  
  it takes a man and a woman (sperm and egg) to create human life.
  
  a soul evolves through life experiences and moves to higher levels of consciousness...or not...
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, they're not. Silly to think that they are, or should be.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would think the law against murder,theft,etc would have something to do with the ten commandments, wouldn't you?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it doesn't; try again.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What does it have to do with then?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Concepts unfamiliar to you.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me then, if you can.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not my job.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't think you could.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are confused. Could does not equal wasting more time on you. Your education is your resposibility not mine. Your deficiency is your fault.
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  Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not confused, you are unable (once again) to offer anything of substance.
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SparklingJewelposted 14 years ago
oh, the circles of perceptions and interpretations we play on each other....
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