What Is A Genuine Christian?

And if you don't agree to go their way, they nuke you. Amen!

Ben - may I tell you a true story?

I had been working in India for a spell and then had to travel to Beaverton, near Portland, Oregon. The journey took 48 hours on 5 planes and I arrived pretty tired, but hungry. I sat down for dinner at my hotel and a couple at the next table asked me to join them as I was on my own. I didn't want to intrude, but they insisted, so I did. It turned out this was their wedding anniversary, and once a year (only) they came into town for a meal in the hotel. Again, of course, I offered not to intrude on their special day, but again they insisted.

We got talking and they couldn't really grasp the idea of traveling the world, but they were fascinated. The conversation, after they'd realised I'd really just arrived from India went like this:

Couple - Out there in India, I guess they're all good Christian folks?

Para - Well, not really. Mostly they're Hindus but there's also a big Muslim population. There are Buddhists and Christians too, but not so many.

Couple - But all these Hindus and Muslims out there - they're all good Christian folks, ain't they?

Para - Yes, just like us, really.

Now, for me, that couple were true Christians - meaning that they were good people who lived well, believed no ill of anyone, and only wanted to know the world was full of 'good Christian folks' like themselves. They had taken the best of Christianity - love thy neighbour as thyself - and were disposed to live by it. They didn't know the first thing about Hindus or Muslims but just assumed they'd all get along just fine.

Referring to the other thread, they were not Christianists.

OK Ben, I have a few questions for you first before I answer this question that was directed at me.

allshookup has given a pretty adequate explanation of what a genuine christian is not.

What do you think is a genuine christian?

I have looked at your hubs,  most of which are re-produced from elsewhere (I don't know if you wrote them yourself) , and I have looked at your blog, which seems to be saying the same things and uses the same income generators.

Are you here to discuss and learn or are you here to tell me what the TRUTH is?

I consider myself a genuine Christian although we all have faults.  Sometimes my anger gets the best of me.

I certainly do not want to see anyone nuked Misha.

Hint for Paraglider - the New Covenant.

Mark when you take into context the Christian belief in everlasting life then allshookup is fairly accurate.  Christianity is more about getting to Heaven than it has to do with this life on Earth although what we do on Earth determines whether we get to Heaven.  Please do not take this as an insult because it is not meant to be one.

Mike

Mike - not offended in any way whatsoever.

allshookup on the other hand - does believe nukes are an appropriate use of resources.

And I am not so sure christianity is all about getting into heaven rather than this life. You may read it that way, but I certainly do not.

That is what Christianity means to me and most Christians Mark, getting to Heaven.

I have not read that allshookup believes that nukes are an appropriate use of force.  If that is actually what she believes then she is following a false prophet.  There is no other way to say it.

Ben;

This is my opinion of your questions.

I think that the post from allshookup is quite good. I do not think it is easy to answer for the critics here all about what a Christian is. The Bible is the main part of what a Christian is. the Bible is 100% true, and it is infallible. So, I believe that a Christian is seeking to rectify all the word of the Bible and live by it to the best we can, and we need to be very, very good at that.

I would add to allshookup's post that it is important to help others. Of course, allshookup and I and everyone else I know could not capture everything. This is because the holy spirit lives in all of us, and that is a living part of us, not just written instruction. God is omnipotent and omnipresent, so there is no way for anyone to truly know God. So, that keeps our wisdom growing, too.

Like allshookup said, there are immense misperceptions that come from an incomplete knowledge of the Bible. I find all the time that non Christians tell me what I should do to be a Christian. If I am not doing what I should, I know it already. I have never gotten one good piece of advice on that from a non Christian. This is far, far more complex than a non Christian could ever dream.

Why bother, though, Ben? I doubt if any of the non Christians want to learn a single thing about Christians. It is easier to just say who they should be, according to their misperceptions. Christians have the Bible to help them get it right if they are not there yet.

Ben;

I think the distinction comes in here about people vs Christians. Grouping me in with some prejudice - sorry but any grouping is just that - is crazy. That is what we fought the civil rights battles over in the 60s and 70s.

Ask a black person what black people are like, and you will get an answer if he trusts you. Tell a black man that it is right to say black men are a mess and deserve to be looked that way should get your butt kicked. Your logic sounds pretty good on the surface, but is very dangerous on the street. No, I cannot buy your argument there.

Mark;

Nice try. As I recall, the thread was closed by your attacks. Ha ha, no one was blamed. You are losing credibility when you just make up crap. I think you can do better.

Well, I am sure that they just forgot the other half of this story, huh? I am sure that no one intended to decieve the readers of this thread by posting half the sotry. No, no one would do that. Not on the revered Hubpages forums, huh? Give me a break, will ya? Here is part two, which was "accidentally" ommitted. Yeah, right, sure...

"Also, nukes can be used for making a point. Threatening. Not killing. To make them listen."

Now that we've unequivocally established the correct definition of a Christian, let's turn to the issue of the type of a life lived by a Christian.

The main one discussed so far has to do with killing and murder. 

There have been many assertions on this post about the wrongness of Christian Killing.

1. What is your authority for such an assertion?

2. What makes your authority compelling enough to have others listen to you and agree?

3. What makes you authority applicable to others?

I have a question for ben and VP,  serious question, no threats nothing of that sort.

My question is...

If Jesus was the only way to God, then tell me about the story of the Symaritian.
You know when Jesus tells the story about the man left for dead on the side of the road; a preist walks by but doesn't help him, another man walks by steals his stuff, then a symartian walks by...

Jesus' deciples say, a symartian, they hate us... Jesus continues and says, the symartian stops and takes the man to get help and says he will pay whatever he needs to to heal him.

Jesus goes further to say, that, that symaritian will go to Heaven.  How can Jesus say he will go to heaven, when that symartian was not a Christian?

From my understanding Jesus is very broad and accepting of those with a good heart.  Those whom express:

Compassion
Understanding
selflessness
the ability to learn
slow to anger
humble
not too proud
gentle and kind
at peace with those around them
will not raise a hand to anger, but "turn the other cheek"
offer assistance where needed
are hospitable
love themselves as well as thier "neighbors"
are well aware they are no different or better than anyone else,
forgive
seek forgiveness
do their best to repent as in they try very hard to not make the same mistakes again.
know they "sin" or as I like to say, "mess up".
and "try" to obey the 10 commandments. 
and have "faith", a genuin belief that no matter how bad they mess up God will still love them.
Would rather be killed then kill
woe the day of Armegedon
believe in love
love their enemies
treat "foreigners" as guest
are not weary of man
do not pass the blame but accept the consequences for thier actions.
believe words are just words, but actions are what count.
care about the world they live in.
help the poor and feed the hungry
do not make money transactions in their place of prayer



What I see from most whom call themselves Christains is:

The need to be right,
a feeling they are always been frowned upon for their beliefs
help most only those who believe as they do,
decide far in advace they are right, and everyone else is wrong.
are quick to anger
cast and devide people out, into seperate groups even amongts others who also believe in Jesus.
believe they are better and have been set apart from the rest because of Jesus sacrifice.
use the knowledge they have about sin and repentance as a scapegoat for their actions.
would rather kill then be killed.
point the finger and pass the blame.
beleive that those who do not accept JC as thier savior or God is evil and the  anti-christ.
believe that life is a race to Heaven.
condem left and right, though they say they don't.
judge people by thier words


I could go on, but I think that is enough. 

This is for Mark:

You go to another thread and copy only part of what I said on the thread. Thankfully VP had the intelligence to go and see everything I said and not just part of it. Apparently there are some people on here blind enough to just take what you copied and not search for the the truth.( I wonder if they realize how that makes them look to the people who read their replies.) I hope by seeing what VP showed them that from now on they will be wiser to you. I saw where moneymaker or someone just believed what was typed and didn't research. moneymaker and others out there who didn't look this up, you are reading bits and pieces of what I said. If you want to know the truth, research it and do not just take what Mark copied and take that as everything I said. To do that makes it to where he is telling a half-truth which = lie. If you want to be a follower and follow blindly, that is your business. But, I did feel that most of you are adults and know better than to just take a person's word for something. Research people. Read eveything that is there. Mark likes to take that one thing he shows you and turn those of you who don't know me well against me. It is your choice if you blindly take his word as truth. It is your choice also if you want to know everything that was said. Thank you VP for wanting to know the whole truth. Looks like you are the only one who really is interested in the truth. And for you who made the comment that I follow a false prophet, I follow Jesus Christ, call Him what you wish. I am human, I do make mistakes, but I do my best to live the life Christ wants me to. For you who do not follow Him, you cannot tell me what I should look like or act like. I answer only to my Heavenly Father, not to any human. He is my judge, not you.

Ben,

It would be much easier to understand what you are trying to communicate If you start using somewhat easier language. Not all people here are proficient in English, I for one have real difficulties trying to understand you.

allshookup - I did not take oit out of context. I later  added a link to the thread so that people could see everything that was written. You said what you said. It is there in black and white for all to see here:

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/7385

I also added all the text you wrote. You later defended your statement that "that is what nukes are for," by claiming that you meant they should just be used a a threat.

How very christian of you. If you think Jesus is telling you that evolution is a lie, nukes should be used, and the polar bears are a worthless species that you do not care about, that is your choice.



Personally, I find these sentiments abhorrent (look it up) and you have completely mistaken what Jesus was saying.

Do your kid a favor and send him to school.

Ben - What you seem to be saying is that as long as one "accepts the sacrifice of Jesus," it doesn't really matter how they behave?

And it doesn't really matter what good work I do, when I die, I will be going to hell if I never did this.

And the bible is not a guide for how to live a christian life, it is about accepting Jesus' sacrifice, so I should not look to the bible as a guide to how to behave. What is really important is acknowledging that I am a sinner and worthless, but if I accept Jesus, I will live forever.

That about it?

This is the Truth you have come to Teach me?

So, what did you mean then?

Mark, you can NEVER again say you do not resort to personal attacks. People on this thread can see you saying that about my son. I homeschool him because my husband and I are convicted by God to do so. That is a personal attack. You can say it's not and get some of your cronies to agree. But the fact is, it is a personal attack to me and my family. It's none of your business what how we educate our son.

And Jesus GAVE His life for us. He chose that so our sins could be covered. He was not a doormat. Since you feel you know everything in the world, you should remember when He went in and saw the people and what they were doing in His Father's house that he drove them out. I do not see that as being a doormat. I see that as cleaning house. He did the right thing. He is God, you know.

No.

The continuance of public argument and debate on points between individuals who all believe they are right (or project such a thing for the purposes of keeping a debate rolling) is an attack between those people who contribute in it.  The rest of the forums can be left out of it, thanks.

I see no purpose in explaining my views to you because I feel no matter what I say, you would do your best to pick it apart and twist it. So I feel that in spending time explaining, it would be in vain.

I completely understand what Ben is saying. It's plain and simple to me.

Misha;

"You either turn it - or not.  The rest is demagogy." I should have known better than to waste my time. Coming from you, that is a great compliment.

Sandra. I think you are the closest. The Samaritan is the very best example one could choose. Many people forget the WHOLE story. The parable of the GOOD Samaritan is a story that Jesus gave IN ANSWER TO A QUSETION. What was the question?


The Good Samaritan Luke 10

25 Just then an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. He asked, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 Jesus answered him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?”

27 He answered, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor as your­self.”

28 Jesus told him, “You have answered correctly. ‘Do this, and you will live.’”

29 But the man wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

***************************************
SO HERE the question is what must I DO - to inherit eternal life?
Jesus answers, love God with every fiber of your being - and love your neighbor as yourself. But the teacher wanted clarification on who his neighbor was. Jesus not only tells him who his neighbor is but also how you can love him as if he were yourself. Now comes the illustration.
***************************************

30 After careful consideration, Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of bandits. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.

31By chance, a priest was traveling along that road. When he saw the man, he went by on the other side.

32 Similarly, a Levite came to that place. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side.

33 But as he was traveling along, a Samaritan came across the man. When the Samaritan saw him, he was moved with compassion.

34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take good care of him. If you spend more than that, I'll repay you when I come back.'

36 “Of these three men, who do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the bandits?”

37He said, “The one who showed mercy to him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do what he did.”

****************

But that is only most of the story. Jesus referred the man to the LAW. "What does it say" he asked the Lawyer. Later, Jesus says He Himself FULFILLS the law - and that since He fulfills it - they must then believe on Him whom the God of the law sent.

So a true Christian is one who loves God with all his being, and his neighbor and accepts Jesus Christ as the Son of God who fulfilled the law becoming our sacrifice for sin. When you accept Him - He comes and lives inside of you - it's personal. Not intellectual or philosophical.

It is not enough to merely believe in Jesus, or accept Jesus, or believe he was God or believe he was just a prophet or just a spirit or any other number of things. One must believe the three things he said above which he STATED are necessary to inherit eternal life.


"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

You can't see me right now, but I'm turing my other cheek.

Why must you and Mark and others go from one topic to another on the forum bringing up things from other forums trying to tie that to whatever thread your in at the given time just trying to stur up things?(It's been done more than on this thread)  Kindergarten indeed. Ben has a great topic for this thread. I told him where I stand. It's his thread and I tried to answer his question. It seems all you want to do is make attacks and try to make it your thread.

Jesus said I have come to give you life and life more abundantly. A person in the state you talk about paraglider - does not have that kind of life - but he can still know God and love his neighbor.

Hola Misha. I'll be in and out for a couple of weeks.

I already read that a long while back. He also stated that that was probably not the place for it and made a place for that particular question. Which I feel was polite of him to not try and take over another person's thread and make someone else's tread all about him and what he believes. Ben is a nice person.

Whatever you believe, as a Christian the way is narrow and the passage to heaven is small.

A genuine Christian is not defined by "man's" terms, but by God's.  So, as entertaining as it may be, the underlying point in this whole debate (all personal attacks aside) is that the true Judgment, by the Christian faith and the word of God (as supposed to be in the Bible) comes not from Man but from God. 

Well, I think I know enough about christians not to want to join their particular cult.

Thank you allshookup, you have once again demonstrated that being a christian is not how I want to spend my life.

Do your kid a favor and send him to school.

I am just off to see what I can do about making it illegal to home school your children.

God "convicted" me to do it, so I am sure you will understand.

I wonder why I even post in this section of the forums - I hate being ignored when I'm being nice.

You sure do ask a lot of questions. But then that is the key to learning.If I say water boils at 212F. I demonstrate it with a thermometer,where everyone agrees is the method for arriving at temp. But to be scientific everyone has to be able to duplicate with similar equipment the same.
There is no scientific method to test the evidence of religous belief such as god. There is reasoning which attempt to demonstrate like the perfection of whatever,
but it is not sensory testable.

Mike - I am altering my opinion of you as we speak

lol

I have proof that the "word" exist however I have no proof that God said it.  If "Jesus" is the "word" then it exist as a "word".  Evidence that "the word" has come into existance is through those who believe in the "word", which have done those things and are sowing thier own existance. 

Similarly, by the "word" "Jesus", has also come the "anti-christ", a "word", which by the same followers have managed to bring into existance the "anti-christ", through the actions of themselves by way of the "word" "Jesus" and in utter denial of those who do not believe in the "word" "Jesus", have deemed and sown the "anti-christ" through their own actions which have coincidentally made thier own war againts themselves, which has or will bring into existence the "word" "Armegedon" or "the holy war" however you chose to call it. 

All of which and as it also applies to everything has come into existance by thier actions.  Not Gods actions, but by our own. 

Thus, it is by your actions.  Actions speak louder than words.  Our likness to God is the ability to bring things into existence by first our "thoughts", then by our "words", then by our "actions". 

Believe whatever you chose to believe as the truth, be careful of what you bring into existence.  You can chose a better love which is always kind, or you can chose one that is not love and bring into existence what is 'hate". 

If you get it, you get it, if you don't oh well. 

Mike is a good guy.

Mike; I am altering my opinion of you as I speak .

Give the nukes stuff a rest, OK? I am tired of it, and for you to keep harping against another Christian is not the right thing in my book. You did say you are a christian, right? If you want another explanation of the meaning of the comments, just read back. This subject is dead, isn't it? There was nothing wrong with it except it was brought here with half the story.

Allshookup was 100% correct in the post made on salvation, too. What is your problem with it? So you know, she never said that works are excluded per se. Your works only count AFTER (no shouting, Mark, emphasis) you give your life to jesus, right? No faith + tons of works = hell, right? You just expounded on the post, right? Salvation is actually far more complicated than that, but I do not need to expound on that with several pages of additional information here and complicate things even more. I will though if you like. Peace. Some FYI's...

Rom 3:28 For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.

Gal 2:16 Yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Rom 9:32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone...

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision carries any weight – the only thing that matters is faith working through love.

Heb 11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Paraglider;

Now that is what we are talking about, "I accept that good Christians behave well because they believe God expects it of them Will you accept that others behave just as well with no such belief?" The answer is an unequivocal "yes". Yes, shouting, Mark.

Whether Christian or not, we are compelled to good works. When will everyone just start cooperating to do good works instead oh hurling insults. I know it sure limits my good works to come here and defend that which no one should ever have the stupidity to insult. I am not using the stupidity toward you, Paraglider.

How about if we all agree to forget whether we are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or some combination and try to come up with ideas to make the world a better place?. I could sure use all the man hours you all put into arguing with me in my 501 (c) (3) for helping ex prisoners, victims of domestic violence, the unemployed and countless others. I can use you all to help me finish off those wind generated electrolyzers to hydrogen fuel cars.

Jesus came to earth as God in the form of a man. As a man, he performed miracles. Why? How? He was just a man or was He God? Well Miracles show us He was God. He could not resist the needy people's plight, and He put everything He had into it. Poof, a miracle happened. That is His lesson to us. Put all we have into helping the needy. Guess what, we are not doing that by being on here. So why am I here. Because when God, Jesus, the Bible and Christians are attacked, I fight back with a vengeance. I know you want to get rid of me. So, just quit doing that, and you will never see me again. Plus, you are all standing in the way of me helping tens of thousands of people a year every year for 14 years. Truce?

How about if we all agree right now to never argue about religion again and spend all this time helping the needy and poor?

"How about if we all agree right now to never argue about religion again and spend all this time helping the needy and poor?" How about you go help the needy and poor and I'll stay here and argue. Maybe I'm poor and needy myself.

Your arrogance is beyond belief. I thought I was the most arrogant person alive. But then there is a contender.
"Oh how generous of you. It is doubtful that you are among the elite who are poor. They are the happiest people in the world as a group." Wow I guess that explains the drugs, the alcohol, the crime the misey of
poverty with no health benifits, living day to day. Don't seem to me you ever been poor.

"You and I do not belong in the same (so christian of u) sentence, arrogance aside."

You know this will count againts me on hubpages and I am sure this thread will likely be closed because of this, but VP,

You are one very disturbed and foul human.  I don't believe you are a human.  I believe you are hurt, I believe you are sick, I believe you don't give a darn about anyone other than yourself or those who are in the exact likeness you yourself.

You are everything a Christain should not be.  You are the most hateful person I have ever heard speak, I may even believe you are Satan himself.

You disgust me.  Every single Christain I have ever met has had their problems or complaints and even bitter disputes but the stuff that comes out of your mouth is just hateful.  Pure hate. 

People like you are the reason I do not accept Jesus as my savior, and according to what I read, those who chose to preach or teach and cause those who are willing to fall from this path are the ones who will surley burn in Hell.  That is according to your book the one you read.

vp:  Yet another thread you've resorted to nastiness in.  Please stop.

Make Money:  You are absolutely right I am not Christian.  I am not, well, anything specific really.  I identify with diety as a feminine figure, because of the stereotypical nurturing, mothering Goddess I seek to be, seek to align myself with - regardless of any random forum trolling I may do at times.  That said, I've spent the last.. err.. almost 20 years reading, learning, listening, keeping my eyes open to the religions of the world as I encounter them. 

I'd like to, for a moment, ignore everything that is currently being argued about in petty fashions and go back to the question at hand -

For those of you who identify as Christian - beyond giving your devotion to Jesus Christ, and through him, G-d, what behaviors classically show a genuine adherence to the tenets of the Christian faith?  What behaviors do NOT show adherence to these tenets?

I am very confused. All several of you have done is trash what I believe. Now all of a sudden what I believe is so very important to you? How did that happen? When did you start to care about me and my beliefs? I have apparently missed some posts on here where you had a change of heart. So, what you are now saying is that you people who trash me, all of you now care about me and my beliefs? Now you all care about me?

vp: If you actually read through the posts I've made in this thread, they've been civil and nice, no insults present (even thinly veiled) so please, I ask again, stop spreading negativity.

Make Money:  In answer to your question about the miracle - Honestly, I can't really say that being a witness to such a miracle would change my faith - I, as always and forever, attribute my faith to something personal, and would most likely interpret such an event in my own way.  I believe in a higher power, whom I define as feminine because my primitive mind requires some sort of substantial definition to that which I give my spiritual praise.  So, to answer your question in short - if you already believe, and I mean truly believe in something, the miracle you mention would not sway my belief.  That is, however, merely my outlook on the presented scenario.

allshookup:  Sorry to hear you're so confused.  There may be a bit of trolling going on in your direction.    Try and have a good day, and pray for peace - inside and outside yourself.

A Christian is like a lump of clay ready to go onto the potter;s wheel. The potter shapes and molds the clay at just the right speed until the finished product is perfect. As he goes along the potter will remove any pebbles or impurities that he finds in the clay.

He is constantly working the clay as he goes, adding water when it is too dry, letting it dry if it gets too wet. Carefully putting his hands with just the right pressure in just the right places.

Yes, this is what  real Christian is. It takes time and effort on the part of the potter, to turn the clay into a masterpiece.

Beautiful metaphor SirDent.

I bet it refers not only to Christians, though, all of our souls probably are like that

"on the very day that the Blessed Virgin had previously said a miracle would happen would you believe in God?"
Co - insidence. Mark Twain wrote a book called 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court', where the Yankee from New England goes back in time and he is
able to predict an eclipse of the sun, because he knows the date, and so they treat him like a god. Actually I have
experience over many years of what I consider proof absolute of something, although I don't call it god. Not sure what to call it, but of one thing I am sure and that is
you can't prove it, nor would I want to.

How I hate religion.

Just another excuse for people to bully each other...

And that's not what a Christian is all about.

With due apologies to the Bard:

Some are born religious, some achieve it, some have religion thrust upon them and some thrust it down others’ throats!

Why can’t we Christians be more Christ-like?

Wow, this one got out of hand pretty quickly.

So, rather than try and respond to everything, I would just like to say something as this thread was originally directed at me.

vd - you have proven yourself incapable of rational discussion and I have no wish to get into another slanging match with you. I am "turning the other cheek."

pt - Yes, I understand that the christian definition of love bears no relation to my own definition of the word. You guys seem to prefer the "tough love." approach. Worrying about our souls in case we go to hell and trying to persuade us that yours is the right way. That is how you show love. Even to the extent of using force if necessary. "For your own good," kind of love.

You don't seem to realize that this sort of love is seen as an attack if you do not believe. I also understand that you do not care, as it is for our own good.

asu - I am surprised you still have not explained your statement. Even when other christians have shown you why this is an offensive thing to say. Any time.

ben - Sorry, we seem to have lost the thread of our conversation - suffice to say, "evidence" that is not actual evidence is not going to cut it as proof.

What is a genuine christian?

Reading all through this thread, there seems to be two definitions.

1. According to the self-professed christians, a genuine christian is one who has accepted Jesus christ as their personal savior and this is the most important aspect of being a genuine christian.

2. According to the non-christians, a genuine christian is one who demonstrates by their behavior the traits that we believe Jesus Christ showed. Compassion, love tolerance etc.

These two appear to be incompatible.

Ben - I have yet to meet a genuine christian.

And I cannot use your definition of the word. Mostly because it seems to me that the christian definition of the word is all about getting yourself into heaven rather than doing any good, or making the world we live in a better place.I am not interested in being that selfish. Therefore I must use my own "authority," in determining what constitutes a genuine christian.

Pax