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ASPIRING AUTHORS: BE AWARE OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING!

Updated on February 4, 2012

Please note:

While I welcome any and all emails and any further questions that you may have, I politely ask that you read this summary first before asking your questions. I realize we're all very busy and this is a VERY long story though - so I will summarize this long complicated story. If after reading this summary you still have questions I’ll try to help. Just contact me.I realize to many – this warning I’m about to chronicle here will end up leaving some readers scratching their heads saying, “DUH! Everyone KNOWS about those types of scam publishers or agents…” So this warning isn’t for the seasoned savvy published author.

I checked this “new” publishing company out with the Better Business Bureau. Not ONE complaint! When I recently tried to make one myself, I was told I took too long between the time I was swindled out of my money, until I made the complaint. I took too long because it wasn’t until recently that I realized – I wouldn’t be sued for making the complaint! I blogged this story on MySpace – so I’m going to get dinged by Hubpages again for a repeat – but so be it. This needs to be said – spread the news – please pass this on to ANYONE you know who is looking for a publisher in particular if they found this GREAT publisher who wants to publish their manuscript for a "deposit." And always check with Predators and Editors or “The Writer’s Market” NOT “The Christian Writer’s Market” (the author admitted on a Christian newsletter I belong to she is just one person and can’t check all of her listings. I’m not making that up) – before signing ANY contract.


To my knowledge - they accept anyone who contacts them - this alone should be proof enough that this company is nothing but a scam and a fraud. I know of no exceptions to the legitimate publishing houses having to turn down far, far more manuscripts and queries than they accept. It would seem American Book Publishing has never seen a book they didn't love.

American Book Publishing is still scamming people today. I’ve tried EVERYTHING to get this woman into jail. I’ve called the Salt Lake City Attorney General, our Michigan Attorney General, the F.B.I., local Salt Lake City law enforcement. I’ve implored a local Salt Lake City “do gooder” T.V. personality who actually promised to look into my allegations but I’m up against it. The MOMENT you go local – you tend to run into members of the Mormon Church. As this T.V. personality was. Nunn is a Mormon. They just let it drop. Michigan won't touch it, and the locals won't either. Still Nunn scams unsuspecting authors as I write this.

Name an organization – I’ve tried to have this woman stopped, but have been unsuccessful. She even made up a blurb she has on her website with my “recommendation” to publish with her. It’s maddening. I never wrote it! I have asked her to take it down - she said I had to stop "slandering" her and her company. I refused to stop warning others. This is my only recourse.

For those who take the time to visit this blog and to find out about the scam of American Book Publishing (ABP) and the scam artist who runs it -- C. Lee Nunn, a.k.a. "Nathan Fitzgerel" I thank you for taking the time to visit my Hub. Here is my story, one of many authors who was scammed out of a great deal of money.

So - in the interest of helping those who are very pressed for time, yet want to know the essentials of the ABP scam here is a trimmed down (believe it or not) summary of what happened to me -----

Cheryl Nunn was a certified financial planner in California. She lost her license. http://www.cfp.net/learn/disciplineactions.asp Then she apparently decided she wanted to start her own publishing firm under the name C. Lee Nunn. She at first attempted to "borrow" off the name of the Forbes Publishing until the real Forbes Company filed a lawsuit and made her stop. http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-1069.html

Eventually she ended up with the name American Book Publishing (ABP) and that's when I came on the scene - getting attention as a new book author (I had been published in newspapers as a reporter, editorial writer, feature columnist and in periodicals. I also had a work published as a compilation in a book at the time, but this was my first attempt at trying to publish a full length book). After my initial query, I heard from C. Lee Nunn herself asking me for a "deposit" of $750.00 that would be returned to me the moment I sold 500 books. I hesitated and began to research ABP because as green an author as I was, that deposit sounded strange. Plus, she had gotten back to me sooo soon after accepting my manuscript for "consideration."

I not only went to the Better Business Bureau's web site, I called them. I Plugged "American Book Publishing" into every search engine I could find and at that time – this was don't forget when Nunn's ABP literally was first conceived back in and around fall of 2000 – I found nothing negative. One woman wrote to me that I wrote to asking about a publisher who would ask for a deposit – and she did warn me. But hers was the lone voice. I was contacted by "authors" who said they had a lovely experience with ABP (probably Nunn herself writing the letters or members of her family – who knows?) If only I had plugged HER NAME into a search engine! When I checked on the authors, I saw their books WERE being sold on Amazon (having no idea at the time ANYONE can sell ANYTHING on Amazon).

I still hesitated though – Oh that I had listened to that one woman AND MY GUT – and expressed my concern in an email to Nunn. She told me to take the plunge. She had even dropped the "deposit" down to $500.00 (now THAT should have been my very first clue right there, eh?) and that her business was new so to give them a try. It was difficult starting out in the publishing business, she wanted me to "take a chance" on her business and they would take a chance on me as a new author. I am sorry to tell you, I went for it. I actually felt like I should help her out because we'd then both gain from the experience!

I was sent many professional looking documents. My contract was good – I had a lawyer look at it and he said it was OK but he expressed that it seemed too general. As long as it seemed legitimate, I was happy with it though and my friend-lawyer said it seemed legitimate.

My contract stated that my book would be published three years from the date of my signing the contract. Three years to the date my editor (who by the way had become a friend and had confessed she wasn't paid - employees of ABP got paid off the SOLD books ONLY of the authors they worked with) bumped me up to the next step which was the "copyediting" department. This copyeditor insisted that I write an addendum to my book to define what "cult" meant (My book chronicles my experience in the religious cult The Way International). I spent May, June, July, and through August of 2003 on this addendum and presented it under the new deadline I was given. And when I say I spent those months writing the addendum, I mean, I treated that like a 9-5 job. Unlike the story I told of my involvement in the cult that definitely required some research – I wrote this addendum as if I was tackling my master's thesis. I worked so hard on it almost seven days a week that entire time.

I came in under the new deadline and then waited. September, October, November, December and January passed and I heard nothing. Finally after much whining from me and almost impossible attempts to reach ANYONE at ABP – the "head" editor promised to see to my book personally. The final product was polished and edited, reedited and ready to go February of 2004. I was told May would be the "launch" date.

In May I spent $3,000.00 – as encouraged by ABP – on copies of my own book (over priced copies I might add but what the heck did I know?) convinced that I could sell every single copy as I already had been given many advance orders and had worked and worked and gave lectures and talks to pre-promote the sale of my book and had established what I felt to be a large number of contacts in the area of PA that I lived in. Not to mention as an Army wife - I had sort of a world-wide network of friends I believed would support me in buying the book as well.

I was informed by ABP that pre-orders were being taken directly – and about 100 or so people did just that while I waited for my $3,000.00 worth of books to arrive at my home.

Suddenly, I received complaints that while friends and relatives ordered the book direct from the publisher – ABP – and their credit card was definitely charged, they didn't receive a copy of my book even though it had been weeks.

Repeated calls and emails went unanswered at ABP.

We had to move from Pennsylvania to Lansing, Michigan and on June 15th 2004 I was in a panic because the advance orders I had taken personally and promised to deliver to those who ordered weren't going to be fulfilled. My $3,000 order STILL hadn't arrived. BUT June 16th, they did. I stood there while the UPS guy took his gurney and made two trips to my door worth of boxes. I opened one box right in front of him with my husband standing by – and pulled out the first copy which I promptly gave to the UPS guy. I was giddy until I REALLY looked at the cover.

Splashed across the cover of the book it said, "Advance copy not meant for resale." This despite the FACT I sent at least three or four emails explaining I was buying these books at "cost" to sell at retail so that I could take those profits and use it for my intense publicity campaign I'd forge once we moved to Michigan. AND APB sent me an “advance” copy with a letter explaining any books I ordered myself would be exactly like the book I received. Instead, to my shock, I had boxes and boxes of my own books I quite literally could not sell. $3,000 worth of books no less!

I still however, could get no information from anyone at ABP, no answers what-so-ever – regarding the unfulfilled book orders friends and family made. But since I had gotten my personal order, I just sent or gave those stiffed, the books that finally arrived. That meant I was taking the loss on those orders of course.

Finally – upon arrival in Michigan, amid a flurry of unpacking and all it takes to move half-way across the country into a new home – it was in mid-July (as I recall), I received a response to my numerous requests for help regarding the unfulfilled orders.

ABP had moved – so sorry – now, how could they help?

A publisher with supposedly many authors, editors etc. who work for them, moves and they tell NO ONE?

I got through to Nunn – finally - she answers in an email CHEWING ME OUT because I was impatitent to receive answers. People ordered the books from ABP, their cards were charged, but they didn't receive a book and I get chewed out for trying to find out why?!

Nunn and I corresponded a few back and forths when she finally spilled the "why" of the unfulfilled book orders. My addendum "slandered" a wonderful and "respected" church (The Mormon Church) and they were in the process of deleting that entire portion of the book and then it would be "ready for publication."

Long story short – I insisted the addendum stay – Nunn – who just so happens to be a Mormon – said it could not – despite the fact she broke the contract by doing ANY edit without my prior approval – she told me – delete it and change my mind about the Mormon Church (I included it in my list of cults and documented meticulously why) or never see publication of my book.

We had at least forty or fifty probably more email back and forths – with me actually giving in and agreeing (finally) to delete that addendum because I would not break the contract. But at that point – because Nunn now knew I was an "anti" (what Mormons call anyone who says negative things about their church especially those who call the LDS Church what it is – a cult), she was digging in her heels. We both knew at this point that the professional relationship had really broken down, but I was still willing to try anyway – at going on. She was not however and told me for $1,000.00 because of "all their trouble" (yeah right – SHE DOESN'T PAY ANYONE WHO WORKS FOR HER what trouble did it cost her??) she would let me out of my contract and oh by the way, I'd never get the rights to my book.

If I DIDN'T agree – she not only intimated that she'd sue – but if I tried to promote the book and say anything publicly against the Mormon Church – she'd seek legal action as well and she warned, I should know the Mormon Church "frowns greatly upon any disparaging remarks" made against them by “vigorously defending” their church against “defamation” by any means possible to include, “legal”. Duh – that's exactly why I included them in the addendum warning people about dangerous religious cults!

It was at that point I got a lawyer. ANOTHER approximate $2,000.00 later, I received a newly signed contract that severed my relationship with ABP, had my rights to the book returned to me, and forced her to fulfill immediately any book orders she had not completed (she had already begun to fulfill the orders that hadn't been mailed out the moment my lawyer sent her the first letter demanding she do so - among other things).

Her correspondence back and forth with my lawyer was filled and I mean PACKED with lies. For example, when my lawyer asked for a portion of the $3,000.00 worth of books I could not sell commercially, she lied and said I KNEW that what they put on the cover would be there when I ordered them.

OH SURE - my ego is SO HUGE that I just wanted boxes and boxes of my own books that I could KEEP sitting in boxes in my BASEMENT so I could just KNOW they were there. Never able to SELL them. Yeah - that makes a whole pile of sense.

Lies like these were very difficult not to respond to. But I resisted because I had a very competent lawyer in Jeff Chip.

Jeff wanted me to sue her BADLY – as he felt I could get serious damages as a result of exposing her scheme – but my husband and I decided not to pursue that route.

The most important thing I did get from hiring a lawyer was that although Nunn insisted we include in the new agreement that I would not be able to say anything against ABP, I was able to get around that morally and legally. Up to this point while I received any and all copies of correspondence between Nunn and my lawyer, I was not to communicate with her at all ever. Once, by mistake in hitting reply I sent what was meant for my lawyer to Nunn which caused a stir – but my attorney was able to get things back on track and I was much more careful when I hit the reply button. I had ENORMOUS difficulty though with the gag order. SO – my attorney worded the "gag order" in such a particular way; Nunn didn't notice that it wasn't a gag order at all. As long as I tell the absolute truth about my experience – I am protected by the constitution of our great nation. I just can not say any UN true things about ABP. Which I have faithfully adhered to. I would swear to anything I’ve written here or anywhere about ABP and Nunn in any court of law – gladly.

Nunn didn't catch the wording – and she signed. So – here I am – telling the absolute truth about C. Lee Nunn and American Book Publishing. STAY AWAY FROM THE CON ARTIST C. LEE NUNN a.k.a. Nathan somebody-or-other and NEVER give them your manuscript and NEVER EVER sign any contract with her or "them."

Most unfortunate authors who have been scammed by them have signed a newer contract (that wasn't around when I initially signed) that prevents them from even discussing ABP publicly. What is essentially – a gag order. I am not hindered by such constraints and am here to warn you BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID OF THE SCAM OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING.

And I would like to conclude this by saying that due to this incredibly stressful and heartbreaking ordeal - if it had not been for my faith in Jesus Christ, I would have probably lost my mind.
My book is still not published, I still have a basement full of books I can not sell and we're out thousands of dollars. Thank the Lord it didn’t put us at any terrible hard-ship. and yet I write for Him - for the Lord -- still to this day with a full heart (currently writing a the second book in a futuristic novel series I am nearing the conclusion of ). I know all things - even this heartbreaking disappointment - works ultimately for the greater good of God’s glory. I am comforted by that.

If what I have written here can help ONE person avoid the heartbreak I went through – then honestly – it will all have been worth it!

Update January 29, 2010

If someone has ever been turned down by American Book Publishing - please send a private email to cjv123@comcast.net

I will not reveal your name - I just wish to keep a tally. So far that I know of - the number is ZERO.

UPDATE---This seems to be a photo for Cheryl Nunn - now she's going by her real name for some reason - still using various aliases for American Book Publishing though and still capable of duping people out of thousands. I recently received a private email from a soldier IN IRAQ - who was into her for over $5,000. This woman is despicable! Thanks for comments from readers of this Hub - this appears to be the woman herself!

Update again 2/4/12 -- It would appear that the link previously provided is broken. The woman has probably once again gone into hiding. But sadly, she is still duping many people out of their hard earned money.

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    • profile image

      sm 18 months ago

      Thank you for the warning

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 2 years ago from Michigan

      Recently Nunn tried to have this Hub shut down - but the Hubpages team stood by free speech and here it stands. Hopefully the word will keep getting out and she won't be able to scam anyone else ever again! Thanks for your comments.

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      John Marshall 2 years ago from glasgow

      What a informative hub,couldn't stop reading from start to finish.ive heard of the American side of publishing,and there are a lot of scam artists out there.well done for highlighting it.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Thanks Dee - you make a good point - as you usually do. On second thought it is best to stick to the subject at hand - the con artist Nunn and her scams.

    • profile image

      dee 3 years ago

      To amazed, this site covers the now defunct ABPG and C. Lee Nunn. To open it to other scams would dilute the subject. There are other scams, Tactics may be similar but it does little good to talk the subject and not point out the specific culprits. There are sites (Preditors and Editors) that handle that. And there are site specific to one, run by one individual who may not have the time or personal knowledge to reseach all others mentioned. Be grateful this site did help others avoid C. Lee Nunn's scam.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Sorry Amazed - I didn't want to post your comments until I was ready to answer. I've been pretty busy and don't get to Hubpages much at all any more.

      OK - 1. Re your dislike of me. I can't be liked by everyone and I freely accept that. I'm not here to garner attention for myself personally or to try to please everyone. And I assure you, I do not seek anyone's pity, no less yours.

      2. I think addressing your over-the-top comments here are a little bit of a waste of time. Never said anything even remotely like what you're stating I said so we'll just skip onto something else where you make a little more sense. As to my "credentials" who are you? Why should your awareness (or as you claim lack thereof) of my "credentials" be any litmus test for my credentials? I never boasted any "credentials." Nor implied I have any. Not one time. Secondly, unless you yourself are an expert in the field of cults, what do you know about my ability to make the statements I do? Because you 'never heard of me' I now am to be disqualified from any knowledge of cults? Are you aware of how ridiculous that sounds? Take these as rhetorical questions.

      3. I am not a "homophobe." That silly label would imply I fear homosexuals. SO not true and I need not defend myself about it because there is nothing anywhere in any of my published writings or writings here on Hubpages that would ever indicate I even dislike gays no less "fear" them. Never mind how I live my life even regarding gay men and women. You truly are clueless and just name-calling. Utter nonsense. Again, I honestly - and I mean this sincerely - don't care if you think I'm a homophobe. What you think of me doesn't matter to me one bit.

      4. Again, you're not making sense. First of all I am so blessed and I have helped others avoid ABP scams. That's the simple truth like it or not. Secondly, I am totally perplexed by your accusation that I do not "allow" anyone else to talk about other scams? Where is there any evidence of this??? I WANT other scams - especially if they are of the publishing kind - to be aired here. It's one of my purposes for this Hub. What are you talking about? Again - rhetorical.

      I think that about covers your numerous false and wild statements.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I don't place the ads here Laide - Hubpages does. Take it up with them because I have zero control over that.

    • profile image

      Laide Salako 3 years ago

      Pls what do you have on " united P.c publishers? They are advertised here of your page. They offer free publishing with 10 percent royalties.

    • profile image

      dee 3 years ago

      glad to see if someone is checking into C Lee Nunn of perhaps any other variations this site pops up. No matter what her newest scam people will see her history and stay clear. But then if she can't scam she can always go on welfare. She can play the victim game. Poor Chery, she can't be a financial planner, she can't be a

      publisher" she can't get people to donate to her foundation... what is she to do? I suppose getting a real job is beneath her, at least she has indicated no history of real work.

    • profile image

      Amazed 3 years ago

      I'm amazed by the fact I don't know who to dislike more, ABP or you. It seems like anyone who disagrees with you (or who you misinterpret as disagreeing with you) gets a sound freak-out response from the crazy lady. So while I feel bad that you got scammed, your own narrow minded ignorance has robbed all the pity I initially felt for you.

      1. While I don’t really doubt ABP accepts all submissions since they are after a vanity press and to turn someone down would be like MacDonalds turning down a request for a Big Mac, it does actually become your responsibility to back up a statement where you say that you know they never have turned nyone down and that no book published by ABP has ever appeared for sale in a brick and mortor store. If I could make sweeping statements and demand the reader to verify it college papers would have been much easier to write.

      2. You were in a cult. Okay, you were in “a” cult. Unless you’re the world’s most gullible person, which you may well be, you have not been a practicing member of “every” religion, or for that matter even a small fraction of the religions which exist beyond your county line. So by making statements where the only evidence you can produce is citing your own gullibility to belong in one cult I have never even heard of, you damage your credibility. Try this, instead of saying, “ Mormons are a cult and they are all out to get me!”, how about just saying “I think Mormons are a cult and they are all out to get me, based on the fact that once belonged to a goofy cult and the Mormons stop chatting with me whenever I call them stupid Satan worshipers.”

      3. Whether or not Dee was calling you out as a homophobe earlier, (and to be honest I doubt she was, but you obviously misunderstood, not that you ever do that) I want to be very clear, being an activist for gay rights does not make you gay. Oh and I think you are a homophobe.

      4. Finally, I am confused why you would feel so blessed by God to know you stopped people from being scammed but the moment someone else mentions a different scam agency (and steals your spotlight) you shut them down. Publish America got an F from the BBB. Of course they are not part of the Mormom/LDS cult conspiracy out to strike both you and monotheism down so I guess I can understand. But maybe God wants you to help people to not be scammed by any con artist and not just the one with which you have an axe to grind. Or once again maybe you just misunderstood God.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Actually, I said that to her once when she tried to bully me into stopping my public warnings about her under one of her stupid alias names. She wrote me this grammatically incorrect email - filled with various misspellings as well, demanding I "cease and disist" (sic). She wrote as "Nathan" I wrote back, "Dear Cheryl" and said there was no way I'd take down anything I had written here on Hubpages. She tried in yet another email to protest that I was confusing "him" with the "former owner" and I wrote back - Nope, don't think so. I used to be on the other end of her illiterate email threats when I was one of her "authors" and as I said I would not take down what I wrote and her threat to sue me was welcomed. I told her to "bring it." But knew she wouldn't - and I ended it with, "How does it feel to look over your shoulder all the time Cheryl?" And while she may have gotten me one time, it was all behind me and I slept like a baby every night - knowing she did not. Or words to that affect. She didn't write back ever again. She did try to go through Hubpages to get them to make me take this blog/Hub down, but to their credit, they allowed me to explain. When I did, they allowed me to keep the Hub up here. I too believe, like you anon - she's not sleeping very well at night.

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      anon 3 years ago

      Given the frequency she has moved and though she has used alias in

      Given how frequently she has moved, given how frequently she starts new businesses under assumed names, she has not been able to hide her involvement -read the SFWA list of other C Lee Nunn " publishing" ventures where Nunn tries unsuccessfully to hide behind fake names, the blog attacking her detractors identified as being hers- it would seem she might not be sleeping well. She is on the radar and anyt5hing she does, regardless of name, is being found. as long as she continues scamming, she can no longer hide from her nefarious past.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Anon - precisely - she is definitely a poster child for sociopath and EVIL. Only someone with a heart black as coal could sleep at night and do the things she has done to people. She's scum.

    • profile image

      anon 3 years ago

      cjv123, regarding your recent comment,to quote the young of today, duh . Of course she has no morals, or ethics, or compassion or empathy. She might just be the poster child of a sociopath.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Nunn is devoid of morals.

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      anon 3 years ago

      Maybe she found actually having to run a business required real, honest work, though I too really believe ,regardless of her personal belief in the cause, she was hoping more it would generate money and less the money, the cause is not worth the effort. Doesn't say much for her morals.

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      dee 3 years ago

      One must wonder Cheryl's commitment to her Foundation for reconciliation given she hasn't updated anything for over two years. One migh guess since the "donations" weren't flowing in she decided it wasn't such a noble cause after all.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Well said anon

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      anon 3 years ago

      C Lee Nunn aka Cheryl Nunn, on her twitter pages writes "Lifelong student of everything good." Now, one must wonder what she defines as good, certainly it is not in the parameters of what most would define as socially acceptable: honesty, integrity, trustworthiness. Perhaps she means she sees what is good in others and then tries to exploit this for her own gain.

    • profile image

      liz 3 years ago

      I do appreciate your advice - but have decided to go ahead and get a publisher here without contacting her. It will cost her more to sue me in SA, and as you say she'll have to reveal who she really is. Satan sure know how to pick his workers. To my ex editor at ABP, I hope you reads this page. Your family lives not very far from where I lived as a child in SA a place called Paulpietersburg. If you do read this page R, thank you for your friendship we developed during that time. May our Lord guide you, and I pray you've found an honest Publisher. I will be publishing my new books soon, and this time they will be honest Publishers here in SA. For those that found themselves in the same boat, let us thank our Lord we have this wonderful gift, and move on and continue to write. cjv123 It's going to be a pleasure to send you a copy of my first new book that will be published here in SA.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      They won't plagiarize your manuscript, they didn't really want it in the first place, they only wanted your money. Odds are Nunn never even read it no less wants to steal it. Make sure you send them written notice that you are ending your contract. She'll send back all sorts of threats that you must "buy back your rights." Ignore it. Your original contract says that the author retains rights to their own work (read it to be certain). So ignore the threats, tell them you are no longer obligated to your contract and move on. There will be threatened lawsuits with grammatically incorrect emails very likely to follow - ignore. She can't sue you. She'd have to reveal her real identity. So just sever the relationship in writing and you should be just fine. Having said all of that I am not a lawyer no less international lawyer. This is only my personal advice. If you need legal advice you need to retain a lawyer.

    • profile image

      liz 3 years ago

      Thank you for your encouragement. I did however send a second manuscript to them not long after the first, and was told it was accepted. I did not sign any contract for that one. Can I go ahead and send it to a new publisher here in South Africa, or am I still committed to them. I'm afraid they may plagiarize it, and being a pensioner I can't afford an attorney. Thank you once again, and Lord bless you for taking your time for those of us who needed your guidance. Kind regards.

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I'm so sorry Liz. I do know all too well how you feel. You are right - she'll suffer, if not in this life - I know it will be the next. The thing of it is, don't let her steal another second of your life. Forgive her and move on. Don't let her control your future by harboring hatred for it. It'll be difficult - I know. But find a way to do it and move on. At least you'll be sleeping at night. And anon - I noticed that too. No recent activity for this supposed charity of hers.

    • profile image

      Liz 3 years ago

      I know exactly what happened to you. I was another sucker who got caught. $750.00 dollars broker. Oh, I also got a reminded to ignore any slander against them, and they will know if I write anything against them. Silly me I know it's a book that would be enjoyed, but alas I cant afford to buy me own books. The exchange rate is ridiculous. God is our Judge at the end of the day, and she will be judged for her deviousness. If you do read this Nunn or what ever name you chosen now,(Pleeeese sue me Ha! Ha !) I hope you can sleep at night, God does NOT. from Cheated.

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      anon 3 years ago

      It appears, if still in "business" that Nunn's Foundation for Reconciliation has the same UPS address as did ABPG. But, It seems there are no new postings from this "foundation" since 2010.

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      anon 3 years ago

      no legitimate company would avoid publicity -nothing better than free advertising to make consumers aware, yet Nunn avoided it passionately she denied outsiders access to the ABPG writers -another example of avoiding the free spots- and she forbade ABPG writers from freely discussing their experiences. That should have been a dead giveaway as to legitimacy

    • cjv123 profile image
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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      That would be a good laugh had she not swindled SO many people. Why am I not the least bit surprised there is no physical address?? I remember back after she stole my money - (and with me that is literally what she did) I went to a local Salt Lake City do-gooder - on their local T.V. - and he said he was going to do a piece on her. Even though he told me he began to suspect she was just a box number, and that Nathan was really Nunn (she kept refusing to take a call and wouldn't give him a phone number to call) nothing ever came of it. I just don't understand why not.

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      anon 3 years ago

      if one wants a true laugh here it is. ABPG used to list numerous sites but their main headquarters in salt Lake city for all postal inquiries -note Nunn made it clear she prefers emails. Regardless, Nunn always tried to present an image of large, successful, numerous employees (acquisition department, editing, legal et al). Her physical address was 5442 SO 900 East in Salt Lake City. That address is for a UPS store, you know where one rents a mail box.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      LOL anon - she sadly uses enough legal sounding wording to scare (especially) foreign marks. I can't tell you the number of people from overseas who have written me. One was getting ready to fork over $40,000 to buy their own books and decided to do a little research. They found me and after a few back and forths they knew not to fork over the money. That was only one of two similar I received - how many more has she swindled out of money overseas for God only knows how much? I can't imagine. Then - when and if they can't come up with the $$ Nunn goes all legal on them and scares them half to death. This one individual was going to ask her wealthy family - but when she discovered this blog - was so relieved not to "lose face" and be "disgraced" in front of their family. How many ended up horribly disgraced and far less lighter in the wallet? All these questions rhetorical anyway - but Nunn's legal emails have done some untold damage unfortunately.

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      anon 3 years ago

      Ahh, yes, her emails from various departments. I recall when I was communicating with ABPG writers and received a very threatening message regarding libel but this ABPG "attorney" wrote that if I revealed the names of those with whom I had communicated he would not pursue the matter. I politely informed him that for APBG writers to discuss their experiences in a truthful manner seemed only for the best for ABPG if in fact their desire is truly to sign promising, first-time authors. This would only enhance the pages of glowing compliments from the very same authors that ABPG lists. Of course, I added that if the communications proved contrary to what ABPG listed then would libel really be appropriate. Never heard another word. As the young folks would say, dah.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Dee - I know exactly what you're saying, but unlike us, Nunn fools people into thinking she's got a schlew of lawyers at her fingertips. It's what I thought way back when. She threatens them with a) keeping their rights unless they pay her money b) to sue THEM if they go anywhere else. Until you hire your own lawyer and have many years of experience with her KNOWING she'll never sue - you don't know she won't. That's what happened to this woman whose story was told via her grieving son. Nunn - years later - tried to have Hubpages tear down this very Hub/blog we're writing on right now. Hubpages stood by me when I explained and then Nunn -- obviously forgetting who I was from the past - tried to send me a private 'cease and desist' email - threatening to sue under the name "Nathan Fitzgeral" or whatever. I wrote back, "BRING IT CHERYL. I know exactly who you are, I recognize the poor grammar. Sue me - I'd LOVE to see you in court." I of course never heard from her again. Her contracts are useless and SHE always violates them anyway - but laymen don't know this. So that's why this woman - who had ZERO money to go to a vanity press in the first place no less hire a lawyer - her medical bills were too high - never saw her book in print before passing. Nunn is the lowest form of scum.

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      dee 3 years ago

      people like Nunn are sociopaths, in my mind, have no empathy for others even their own famil. They exist only to satisfy their own wants and seldom really work or contribute to others. as such she has no conscious to be miserable in more than not making money. As to the touching story of the cancer victim add, this individual would never had seen the deposit returned. I wish this person would have just taken their work -regardless of ABPG contract- and had it printed by a vanity press. A book in print and what could Nunn do? Sue? Imagine that in a court room, her contract pulled apart and perhaps the heirs -more than insulted by such a suit- going after Nunn for, including emotional stress. I agree, more than writers were scammed but the fact is other than the new editors or artists in the market, NO ONE with any experience would ever agree to a royalty only contract unless they researched the company, and talked to other designers and artists. and most cut their losses and leave no matter.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      No, these contracts aren't old - but - the most recent haven't been with ABP, but with her other fictitious named publishing houses. Also - her "staff" she hires IS legitimate - they get conned too as was the case with the most recent email I received. His editor was stunned to find out not only that the fictitious publishing company was going to be sold - but that she had been part of a scam AND was out of a job. They had never heard of Nunn or even American Book Publishing - until it was too late. Most often actually - those who contact me contact either prior to signing or just after signing. Some do contact me once they are asked to buy their own books though - thus losing the "deposit". At least I've been able to help that process in a number of cases as well.

      The way you have gone through Nunn's con-demise sounds like it could be a strong possibility but unless she comes here and tells us just exactly what she's doing - we may never know. But your scenario does have a solid ring of logic to it and I can only seriously pray she is DONE. Given the letters I've received, the hearts she has broken - the horrible way Nunn even treated a DYING cancer patient with the dying wish to see her book in print - (Nunn held up the process because she wouldn't buy her own books and never saw her book published before she died), I hope Nunn has a miserable rest of her life full of suffering. She is despicable. Below despicable. Not because of what she did to me personally. I've long put that behind me - but because of those I continually hear from. I could write a book about the pain she's caused dozens and dozens of people who have written me. Nunn is vile. I do hope it is exactly as you've suggested Dee only much much worse for her.

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      dee 3 years ago

      If I have read your comments correctly, many of those contacting you have presented the fact ABPG is asking them to pay to get their rights returned. An indication Nunn's scam is failing and she is just trying to squeeze out what monies she can. It would be interesting if those contacting you could indicate when they signed. Recent would indicate they didn't do back ground checking or ignored all those warning sites that easily appear any time anyone keywords either C. Lee Nunn or American Book Publishing. Sadly one can not protect -for no better word- the foolish. Indeed, all who got contract did believe their works were worthy of publication and some might actually be worthy, but only fools ignore all the facts presented or prefer not to keep pushing their works to legitimate agents/publishers. It is all the more difficult when a writer signs away their rights to the likes of C. Lee Nunn. What few might actually be good might never get published. But then Nunn held release for many who did not buy the bulk orders of their own books. Does any of that sound like a real publisher who wants readers to buy, who wants the words read, who make their money on doing so?

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Still - unfortunately my blog here - my newest page about her on my new website: http://www.carolspieceofmind.com/the-cheryl-nunn-b... Victoria Strauss' website etc. have not saved enough people as I get constant dribbles of people conned by her. Those are just the people who contact me - only God knows how many others there are. I do hope though she'll close up shop. And the Attorney General's office won't take her on - I tried that back when I got conned. They sent me to a consumer agency they sent me somewhere else etc.

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      dee 3 years ago

      When ABPG/aka Forbes Publishing began Nunn did attend local writer's trade shows -she signed some writers via that venue- and she was predominant on the ABPG web page not as founder but as head executive. She did, back then try not to hide rather tried to make herself seem some authority on publishing. recall her "secret" marketing strategy, her responding to complaints on the defunct Speculations blog thought as a "lowly" employee. She used to post her comments on the publishing industry. Now, it could be argued it was part of the scam entirely or she actually felt she was some sort of authority less the experience but then egomaniacs especially con artists really do think they are smarter at least more clever. The point: as time went on with so many complaints about her and her company all she could do was hide behind ficticious names to preserve the scam and then nothing could save her since both her name and companies were being tracked and warnings existed everywhere. I have no doubts any legit Mormon groups inclusive of the gay gfroups will disavow connectio9ns to her as that connect will be detrimental to their cause. I too think if she has riled the Mormon Church they might just have their state's Attorney General check into the legitimacy of her foundation. This may occur if she tries to grow her operation. Until then most law enforcemnet agencies don't have the resources to go after "small potatoes.' Thus site like this play a major role. Anytime anyone wants information about any organization Nunn runs they will find these sites.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Just interesting - for all we know though, it isn't her - it's not really her MO - however as I said, that article in the newspaper, while not really clear - resembled that link that I posted above on that "foundation" Twitter acct.

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      dee 3 years ago

      years ago when ABPG was new as in going under the name Forbes -note the real Forbes hit her with and won their case on trademark infringement- she ties in as a guest speaker with some LDS women's writers group, some of it's members got hooked in her scam. Her photo was shown on that site. From what I recall, the photo on the Foundation for Reconciliation and that site have some similarities but given the hair styles are different it is hard to say. I could try the wayback machine but I think that site isn't included.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      This is the activist group she started and I believe this might even be an actual photo of her BTW. The reason I think this is actually her is at one time, this group made the news. She was cited as part of the group protesting the LDS Church's stance on homosexuality, and was named. There was a photo accompanying the article (can't find it right now) and that photo looked like this one. So I'm imagining she's bilked these poor souls out of their money as well. https://twitter.com/CLNunn

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      She'll try something else I'm sure of it. For awhile she had this "non-profit" organization she posted on Facebook under her real name - which surprised me. I tried to get out the word that this Cheryl Nunn was the same associated with ABP and gave links etc. to back up my claims. I'll bet though she misused any funds she may have collected. I do hope though what you say is true. Her name is "Mud" so she has to use alias which means it's a bit more difficult to perpetuate a scam - unless she has people working for her. Hard to do since it seems her social circles are primarily LDS or LDS associated (those who have left the church due to sexual orientation). Which means by and large - honest people. But she doesn't know how to earn an honest dime - so she'll have no choice but to find another scam - in my opinion.

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      anon 3 years ago

      So, American Book is "for sale" and the site to check it out is really nothing, has no details etc.. If it is any solace, shortly after it's inception all sorts of sites popped up warning writers to stay clear. Con artist put in the effort when it pays and slow or stop when it no longer pays and/or the heat is on. Looking at the title signed on the past few years and the titles listed on the defunct Publishers Direct Bookstore indicate either Nunn got real lazy - I have doubts- or the signings were declining. Re3ading posts here we se many of those who had experiences years ago a few more recently and some complaints coming to the site manager that reveal a desire to get out of their contracts or being asked to buy back rights. this seems to indicate fewer signing since warning sites were created, more checking into Nunn's scam before signing and those seeking to leave as well as Nunn trying to squeeze a few more dollars. additionally, we know the heat was on since Nunn, who initially made her name predominant, not only removed her name but worked n=under alias' she knowing both her name and company name were listed under warnings. In all the scam was declining fast over the past few years until now she closes. Not to mean she won't try something new. But then it is all too easy to track down her involvement -I refer to the SFWA list other Nunn alias' and company names, to the latter all for sale.

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      dee 3 years ago

      to former editor. I doubt what you made hit you for more than few dollars in taxes and if you made additional elsewhere likely got a refund, possible is you had income credits perhpas a refund greater than what you actually had withheld. But to the point of the recent conversation, your input does indicate Nunn made no attempt to hide from the IRS -a risk too large- but I have no doubts if she were audited she'd owe. Why? because her history is one of scamming and these types seldom don't do so when filing taxes, many doing so knowing they have the odds against an audit in their favor. But then many people working legitimate jobs do the same and not necessarily by error. Were it not true then every audit by the IRS should turn up no back taxes owed. as such were Nunn to be audited the IRS likely would make her pay penalties and interest on top of what is owed but would not pursue criminal evasion, all they want is the money.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Dear Former - Yeah, YOU have to pay taxes, but I wonder if she did. I'm sure she's not telling.

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      ABP Former Editor 3 years ago

      I know that when I worked for ABP, I received tax forms, showing my income was reported, so I HOPE that since we had to pay taxes on our ridiculously low income that SHE would have to pay taxes on everything she "earned." Since the company shut down at the end of last year, it'll be interesting to see what I get in terms of tax forms.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Again, you make good points. I'd love the IRS to come down on her though - Cheryl Nunn - or C. Lee Nunn uses alias and most likely doesn't pay taxes for her earnings no matter where she lives. I hope some bot picks this up and someone in the IRS sees this and in the least nails her for the state taxes she owes. You're right though, she has managed to spin an intricate web - that's probably what has helped her get away with what she does fudge to keep the feds off her back. We can only hope someone someday will want to go after her and put her in jail where she SO belongs.

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      anon 3 years ago

      Moving to avoid "the heat" of creditors, disgruntled writers, law suits etc. does not equate to moving to avoid federal taxes: the entity and Fed ID number remain. State taxes are another matter. I agree, Nunn likely files but I am certain finds all the loop holes to avoid, and avoiding is not criminal, evading is. But my gut tells me she likely fudges the information on both the business and personal forms for so much of her past is filled with lies: how the business was started, the refundable deposit, the implied success of her secret marketing practices, her newsletter, her publicity assistance, her staff listing, her names..... To me that type easily fabricates tax deductions. What I would be interested to learn is the status, funding and dispersal of monies from her foundation. I doubt it is legit, likely claims high expenses and minimal grants.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Good points - but don't you have to give accurate personal information to even file FOR an LLC or any other type of business? When I formed my LLC I had to swear on the statement that I was giving accurate information blah, blah. Someone has to be the officer for the company - she'd have to be very smart to know the ins and outs to be able to file for deductions for a fictitious company. I think - I hope - you're giving her too much credit. She's not that smart, just look at the way she writes. She's practically illiterate. I think the risk is high as you said, she just moves when the heat is on. I know she's moved within Utah at least twice and now she's in California. Unless she's raking in millions, the feds aren't going to go after her and lately, the IRS has enough to deal with so she's probably under the radar. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, or argumentative - I'm actually not DISagreeing with you - I'm thinking she isn't filing and the IRS hasn't caught up with her. There are a boat load of people who don't pay taxes - the IRS can only catch up with a fraction of them. Unless you have some inside information. The only thing I know for sure with regard to this discussion is - she moved twice (at least) within Utah, and her personal address now is in California - or at least it was as of December 2013.

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      dee 3 years ago

      your point was a company paying taxes and if said company had losses exceeding income they have no tax liability. Nunn and ABPG would have to file indeed but her income could be as a consultant, not an employee avoiding the withholding and FICA and unemployment insurance and she too could have a myriad of personal deductions, mortgage interest, medical et al that might place her personal income in a no tax bracket. Your point was about her company and it does not file using Soc Numbers but Federal ID numbers. My business files returns as such and I file separate individual forms. Now, there are S corps that operate as individuals with corp status. The point, I doubt she doesn't file -the risk too large- but my bet is she writes-off tons both business and personal. The issue, if legit write-offs she has broken no laws. If not-legit, it is another matter.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Yes Dee however, she'd have to use a real name and real social security number in order to do what you just stated. She can't do that for ANY of her publishing companies because she doesn't use her real name. She can't file - unless she files with the exact false name using a false social security number (a whole other federal group of illegal activities in addition to breaking IRS laws) that she "filed" the business under. She can't claim anything no less make write-offs. Right now "Cheryl Nunn" doesn't own squat and hasn't for about a decade. She can't write off things she doesn't own a business for. Therefore, I'm saying she can't possibly be filing taxes. She's breaking the law and has been - big time - for probably a decade. Ever since she used her first alias - Nathan Fitzgeral about a decade ago. Therefore, she has been continuously breaking the law all these years because she's almost certainly not filing and hasn't filed taxes for probably a decade.

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      dee 3 years ago

      using your example, if she was paid the 40k and claimed expenses of office, phone, insurance and then paid herself as a consultant the difference and then claimed losses from all the other writers who didn't buy claiming time spent to promote -she would have to prove that- and on a normal tax form all fits ABPG makes no money thus no taxes.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      You make a point -- but it is illegal to "own" a business and not pay taxes from the earnings for that company. How would she file to get the exemptions you mention? You have to be a real person with a real social security number to file in any way. For example - under one of her phoney names Elizabeth Bennet - she takes in say $40,000.00 from an overseas author (someone wrote to me and said Nunn - using one of her aliases of course = told her she had to buy 40k of her own books. The author wrote me and ended up not giving Nunn the money - but let's say she did give her the money but I'm guessing others did). So Nunn and one of her companies receives 40k say times 10 - as I know she is scamming now overseas. Someone has to pay taxes on that. If not - the IRS will go after her, but how can she pay taxes on it since her company is made-up - and she doesn't have a real SS number or real name to file under? No - I think she doesn't file, and then just keeps moving. There's no way she could without the IRS getting suspicious and digging - she's not that smart to be able to juggle all that she's juggling and know the complicated tax laws so she could get "write-offs" and how to do it with fake names, fake business names and the like.

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      dee 3 years ago

      I disagree, she is likely filing taxes -alone the fear of not and those penalties- but having a company she has all sorts of ways to write-off, take losses, etc that might make it to her benefit to file. However, if she is using other's names, her family for example, things can become dicey. Her re3sume reads consultant to publishing especially green. The only connect there is to ABPG where she has claimed for years she is not the owner/founder -read her original description way back machine archives. She may have moved money from ABPG to herself as a consultant not employee. there's all sorts of legal means. remember it is not illegal to avoid taxes but is to evade.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I have always wondered why the IRS hasn't nailed her. There is no way she's filing taxes.

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      dee 3 years ago

      I doubt the "law" has got her, she is small potatoes and deliberately has a "small" deposit. Most who did get cheated never sued her for their deposit and I suspect most who signed and discovered they had to buy bulk of their own nooks, just left, be it they got smart or didn't have the money. But I wouldn't be surprised if the IRS is or will be looking at her especially given her other venture -a foundation for gay rights- had just her as an employee and supposedly provides grants. I t would not surprise me -perhaps I will check this- if I found her "foundation" wasn't registered, never applied and never has provided a legitimate grant.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I wonder if some authority or legal entity hasn't finally caught up to her?

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      anon 3 years ago

      When ABPG started there was little information, read that as warnings. No need to mention all the sites that popped up describing the scam but needless to say any writer finding the link to ABPG would also find all the links with warnings. And too, merely see how few titles have been released in the past few years. Were writers successful in reaching readers via ABPG/Nunn's "marketing" methods and the goal is to reach readers one would find more signing, not less. If the Publishers Direct Bookstore -note virtually all titles listed were ABPG titles- was a viable source for sales, one would find few ABPG writers complaining and more non ABPG titles willing listed by other publishers. In all no ABPG writer ever sold enough books to get their deposit returned no matter what outlets were used. And fewer writers signing, and more scrutiny of Nunn means first change your name then try to sell, then close. Selling is a last ditch effort to get a few more dollars since signed writers declined.

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      dee 3 years ago

      complaints from writers stating Nunn wants them to buy out their rights. It would seem she is seeking cash and no longer pursuing her buy in bulk, hold the writer's rights "hostage" scam. It would seem then it is likely she is closing shop -not to mean she won't try to re-open under another name, one less open to the scrutiny she has garnered all these years. Indeed, I did google American Book Publishing Group ans well as her Publishers Direct Bookstore. Both are not available. I dearly love the aforementioned description of Nunn: a grifter. Reading what is available of her past it seems she has a "career" of scamming and getting caught and moving around and changing names and company names, and phoney alias' and addresses and phone numbers and all those indicators of a grifter.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Anon - the only thing the search results prove is that the whole business is for sale. What I had hoped is true and still hope is true is that it is because of the heat by SFWA etc. that Nunn is forced to close up shop. What gives you the impression that this is the reason she is selling? That was what was meant by my comment.

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      anon 3 years ago

      merely google american book publishing group

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I do hope you're right because I've been receiving a number of emails of late from scammed ABP and the scam affiliates authors. She's trying to get them to "buy out" their rights to their own books, even though her contracts gives the authors full rights to their own materials.

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      anon 3 years ago

      Recently the SFWA added some additional information regarding C. Lee Nunn: the suspected operating under both a variety of pseudonyms and company names. Shortly after it was noted the new operations were ALL up for sale. Now ABPG site says it is up for sale. A quick check does not go to a location for details. Pity, for if it did Nunn would have to open her books for any buyers and the whole scam would be revealed. as it is, sites of warnings have done their job. As previously posted here, ABPG has had a decline in signed writers and now it appears Nunn either knows there is little hope scamming more, or she is feeling the heat of what I would say is fraud charges. Remember, PA has been recently sued for such practices.

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      anon 3 years ago

      To see how few titles she is publishing merely count the titles on PDbookstore for starts. Indeed many who sign learn what is required to get their book "released" as in buying copies for publicity but given few new titles are added means most aren't buying books. Second. read the quotes in her "happy writers" section. The vast majority go back years, many are from writers who have left. Third, check amazon sales ranking for any new books listed, if you can find them. And lastly, many writers would not stumble on ABPG and not see all the warning sites that are next to it. Fourth, a good many writers, before signing would look up the company and as this site attests learn the truth. As for where she lives: make certain it is not a less desirable section of town if in fact her address is current. In my town there are homes valued at several million and some at 2ooK.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      You have no idea how heartless - I have gotten emails and even in some cases phone calls with people who have absolutely heart breaking stories. Some of the stories still haunt me to this day. If she doesn't see justice in this life - I KNOW there is a very special place in hell for her...

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      Former ABP Editor 3 years ago

      Thanks! I feel worse for all of the authors who poured their hearts and souls into their books and really got nothing in return. I know of an author who didn't have enough money to buy all of the galley copies they wanted her to buy. Because of this, ABP did not publish her book. She, in turn, decided that she no longer had the will or desire to write. That, to me, is one of the worst things that could happen. This company and its shady dealings killed her dream. When I found out about this, I sent an e-mail to the higher ups at ABP and the only response was "we'll see what we can do." Really? Heartless. Seriously heartless.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Dear Former Editor - how could you possibly research a "new" publishing firm or someone who isn't even using their real name? It's virtually impossible no matter how careful you are. And I understand Nunn is even giving "advances" to her authors now - so what would give a red flag really? You no schomo - professionals from every walk of life have been scammed by her. You're in very good company. I have never been scammed in my life - until her. I have a college degree and a masters in LIFE as a 33 year Army Officer's wife. Not before, not since have I ever been involved in any scams. I've had a judge and an PhD write to me - both women, both taken very badly by her. You truly are in very good company.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      Anon: How do you know few people are buying into her scams? She apparently lives in a very affluent section of California - and I just personally received two emails from people who just realized they were scammed. One has hired a lawyer.

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      anon 3 years ago

      like many con artists if they remain small law enforcement doesn't take the necessary time to shut them down. In my area there is a transmission shop that constantly does shoddy work, runs false ads has a list of over 80 pages of complaints with the attorney general but changes their name thus removing the connect to the web sites of warnings and continues. The attorney generals office said they just didn't have the resources to pursue. Nunn changes her names, changes her address and opens and closes web sites. BUT, if one looks at how few people are buying into her scam indicates how much sites warning of her are working.

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      Former ABP Editor 3 years ago

      I had recently graduated from a publishing program and found ABP on bookjobs. I looked them up and they seemed legit (this was in 2007 or 2008), so I applied and sent my resume - was hired almost immediately as an editor. I thought the $100 base pay and 5% royalties was kind of strange, but it wasn't going to be my main job, so I didn't really worry. I chose my first book to work on. It was a nightmare - the author wasn't even finished writing it. This was a two year project. I stayed on to work on three more books. Again, this wasn't my main job, so I didn't mind. They were very particular about how you edited books, but I did my own thing because that's how I have always worked. I think that over 4 years or so, I received maybe $60 in royalties. I did work with some really interesting authors and did what I could. Very rarely did I receive support from the Director. Some of my books were published with errors, which technically should have been caught along the line. Isn't this why more than one person works on a book? Anyway, I received a message not too long ago stating that ABP was closing down. I feel like a schmo for not having researched them as much as I could have in the early days. I am thankful, though, for the experiences working with them brought me. I hope that the authors with whom I worked don't consider me to be a part of this scam, as I was really just an editor trying to help them get their books published, never knowing until recently that they were getting the screw job.

      Thanks for allowing me to share my piece.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I was shown that article about Nunn's alias names - and numerous fake publishing houses. It's stunning how she isn't doing the perp walk. But hopefully, someday soon...

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      anon 3 years ago

      very recent "investigations" into C Lee Nunn and her ABPG reveal numerous alias', numerous other publishing houses and the continue3d "scam." As another poster commented, Nunn is a grifter, it means con artist.

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      Carol 3 years ago from Michigan

      I'm sorry to hear about your story. There are far too many of them out there I'm afraid. Thank you for sharing it with us.

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      Joel Savage 3 years ago

      Writers Beware of Dorrance and Rosedog Publisher.

      Read my story.

      Thanks to the media and the effectiveness of the internet, as a medium to convey messages and warnings to people. As an amateur writer, with an ambition to publish my work, I made a grave mistake, which cost me over $3000, without the books. After finding the right publisher, through experienced writers and those associated to publishing, I am now happy and would like to publish my story, so that no one would ever make the mistake I did.

      I saw a publisher called 'Dorrance' solliciting for manuscripts on the internet. Without much knowledge about their background as 'vanity or subsidy publisher' or 'Ghoul publisher' that is they don't feed on the dead, but the living, I gave them two manuscripts. There is no package at the website. They will tell you to make an initial payment of $500. After that comes the original package of $8.100, to be paid within a period of twenty three months.

      I wasn't happy about this. I therefore contacted a well known female expert in book publishing and she asked me to cancel the contract. She has a reason. According to her, what is stated in Dorrance contract is never done. They only used it as a bait to lure or encourage the submission of manuscripts.Moreover they don't even have shops to sell their books as vanity publishers.

      I believed her. An associate of Dorrance called Mr. Andrew Rouce, whom I made the payment to, asked me to make appointment on line to speak to me. I followed his instructions and made the appointment, but no one called me. This is evidence number one of what kind of publisher Dorrance is, which the book expert was talking about.

      My two manuscripts are already with Dorrance. After the cancellation of the contract of $8.100, Mr. Rouce introduced another publisher called 'RoseDog', to me. Both my two manuscripts were transferred to RoseDog publisher's. After making a full payment of $2.155, plus $40 additional cost for the postage of three copy of books, the six months period the book supposed to come out, as said by Mr. Rouce had expired, yet I have paid $1.133 for the second manuscript.

      They asked me to finish up the payment of the second manuscript and I said to them that it's not going to be possible, since the first book which I have finished the payment hasn't come out, therefore there is no way I will continue payment for the second script . They were infuriated by my decision and they thought the best punishment for me was to take the book that I have finished its payment hostage.

      They refused every communication with me. I was compelled to find another publisher and make another payment to on print on demand (POD) contract. Dorrance received my cancellation of the contract letter and referred part of their contract to me as a breach and forfeited all the amount I have invested in my books.

      I am not worried at all for losing this amount, because I wouldn't have got anything as a royalty from such publisher. They are simply criminals within the publishing industry. Just imagine a publisher, requesting me to provide names of two hundred friends to buy my books.

      They wanted to make money again at my expense. The most important message, I want to convey to the public is "Dorrance and RoseDog publishers' are birds of the same feathers, flocking together, "PLEASE NEVER BE TEMPTED TO GO INTO THEIR NET".

      You can read hundreds of negative comments about 'Dorrance' on the internet. If you, I and others will join hands together and campaign against such publishers, the publishing industry would be somehow better from frauds like that of Dorrance and RoseDog. Don't say that you don't care, because it didn't happen to you. It may happen to your brother, sister, neighbour or friend.

      Just keep away from them. The comments of previous writers they had published their books and posted at their websites are all false. They use them to counter attack the war against them as bad publishers. I don't have anything to lose, therefore the campaign against Dorrance and RoseDog, as criminals within the publishing industry will continue unabated.

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      dee 4 years ago

      her past seems to indicate she has always taken the easy route by scamming. Think about it, you give her money (deposit) and unwittingly your rights and if you don't do as she wants (buy hundreds of copies from her) she expects you then to pay again to get your rights returned. A real employer would see through her very quickly, but then I suspect her to be the type, if fired, to file some lawsuit, age, sex, whatever discrimination. The likes of her always look for the quick buck if not feeling they are victims due the money. The likes of her always threaten lawsuits. Read when Forbes hiy her with trade mark infringements, she triued to negociate a deal. They, of course, refused. So many scammers actually think by creating the scam they are clever and getting caught insults their image of intelligence. Thus, you offend their percieved intelligence and there is the harm they feel.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      I'll count it a victory when she's behind bars. Thanks for your thoughts Teresa - you speak the truth.

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      Teresa Nielsen Hayden 4 years ago

      Cheryl Nunn wants money without work, and she wants to be seen as a respectable entrepreneur instead of the crooked grifter she is. I'll count it as a victory the day she has to take a regular 40-hour job to make ends meet.

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      dee 4 years ago

      exactly, she threatens, and does nothing for to do so means she has to go to court and prove her case. What can she prove, that her web site explicitly says returnable deposit that she can not prove has ever been returned to a single writer? That writers sign beleiving ABPG is a real publisher relying on books sales as her site claims? She could sue, and then open herself up to witnesses comimg forth against her? She could be forced to open her books, show revenue and by source. A sorry tale of checks written to ehr by writers and not readers. She could sue and claim not liable but loss of income, but then with the evidence of revenue sources compared to her web claims the record would show what she is. So she threatens, has done so for over ten years. Who would work for one who exists on threats to gain money. What writer would sign knowing their rights are held hostage to gag orders. ONly the deparate or foolish, and the latter are fewer as ore sites exist to warn.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Nunn even has something from me - exactly as you said - DURING the editing process - and I was happy with my editor. SHE was scammed too and never paid a dime for her three years of work! Everything you said is true - except my lawyer made her resign another contract that DIDN'T prevent me from speaking out. She was too stupid to read what exactly he wrote in the new contract and she signed it - thinking I was signing a "gag order" which is what she demanded or she wouldn't give me back my book rights. He worded it in such a way that I am protected by my free speech rights - so I can continue to speak out. She's threatened me on a number of occasions with legal action but I won't stop. Not until she's in jail.

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      dee 4 years ago

      if one goes back years -the nineties- one can find writers who sighned with Nunn reporting "threatening" messages left by here on both the email and answering machines for those who didn't do as she said. These included following her marketing scheme and, as the $10,000 fine for speaking out will atttest. Running a scam assumes those taken will just go their own way and not protest or warn others. Of course, to maintain the scam means trying to siloence any who warn merely by presenting what happened to them. Speak up, and one will get a letter from her "legal" department, cease or face libel charges. Of course the letter will ask for the names of all other ABPG writers one may have contacted. If ABPG is such a great deal, then beofre you sign, inform NUnn you will ask other ABPG writers about their experiences. You will be notified they are too busy, she doesn't reveal that information, anything to prevent learning the truth. Of course she has her infamous quotes page. Read those, NONE reveal anything about sales success, only about editing and covers. Writers may offer gratitude to their editors, agents, but never shill for the publisher. Real publishers don't need some unknown touting their houese. They rely on picking salable books to build a reputation. And no real publisher would ask their writers to supply quotes touting book covers.

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      anon 4 years ago

      Never suspected anything physical would occur.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Sorry - I didn't mean to do that anon - I just don't have any more information at all. The person would not be specific so I couldn't get any clarity as to what might happen next. I don't believe the implication was any physical harm would come to her though - that much seemed clear.

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      anon 4 years ago

      Such a baiting comment: "That's all I can say for now." Does this mean you know more but are unable to say, or wait for more information?

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      anon - I have also been receiving emails that she has begun to scam overseas. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. We're going to become the newest Nigerian email scammers. Turns out she scammed the wrongly connected overseas person. That's all I can say for now.

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      anon 4 years ago

      I was interested to learn Nunn's contract included a clause that the witer is responsible is someone sues. A work plagairized instantly comes to mind. Note: Publish America "Publishing" a book containg numerous plagaized poems a few years back. It shows the manuscripts are not reviewed for one poem was very recognizable. So, does this mean Nunn doesn't review? We all are very certain that is true. But that can be excused, and it wasn't the publisher who plagarized. What else? Perhaps books sold and money recieved but never shipped? Read complaints about Nunn's ABPG. THis problem has existed. What about nonfiction, books claiming self-help from writers who have no experience, or have proven their methods. These writers seldom get published, other than self-published, for there may be liabilities that could jeopardize the publisher. I'm certain other reasons exist, but it shows a publisher who doesn't review but one who accepts just about everything -why not if it's never reviewed and the purpose of the contract is to get writer's money not selling books to the publicas a means to generate revenues. What it shows, is not a publisher but a printer, a vanity press in disguise hiding intent behind "deposits" marketing plans that require writers to pay thoushands of dollars and sell fewer than a handful of books.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Stanglegirl - thank you so much for writing. Every single letter I receive like this -here or privately I am SO thankful that I did go through what I did so I am able to help others avoid that terrible ordeal. We are so blessed - doing so well - the loss of the money is just that - it's just a loss of money. God has given us back ten fold. It's letters like this that make my day, my month, my YEAR. So very blessed to hear you avoided ABP - Nunn is a crook and I pray someday this side of heaven I will see her face justice. But no matter - as long as I can be used to help others, that's what counts! Thank you so much for taking the time to write!

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      lstangelgirl 4 years ago

      I was just offered a "contract" with American Book Publishing this morning. After reading that part of the contract where they want $880 up front I was immediately skeptical. Not to mention the fact that I would be held responsible for anyone trying to sue, I would lose the movies right etc... So I started looking up everything I could find about the company. I am truly sorry for your ordeal. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post. This just reinforced all my initial hesitation and worry that they were in fact a scam. I believe wholeheartdly in my book and even though I am a first time Author I know it will get published (with a reputable publisher). I pray your book get's published and you are able to recoop all your money and make a lot more. I also happen to agree with your stance on Mormonism. Coming from a family that has many Mormons. I have seen first hand far too much that's proves how "cultish" they are. I got an invitation to my nephews "Wedding" except you can't see a Mormon wedding at the Temple since it is closed to only the bride and groom not even the parents. So the invitation was for the reception. How sad and how bizarre they are. My own brother (my nephews father) was married in the Temple and I remember being a small child trying to understand "why" we couldn't see him get married. But this is of course the tip of the iceberg as I am sure you know. Again my prayers are with you may you be blessed as you have spared others from such a scam.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      It just warms my heart and puts a smile on my face every single time I get one of these messages. Each time, I am reminded, it was all worth what I went through - if I could save even ONE person from the nightmare I had to endure. To date, it's been a LOT more than one person and I'm grateful to God for it! Thanks for your comments MadMack!

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      TheMadMack 4 years ago

      Thank you for rescuing me! These unscrupulous publishers are getting more clever about the way they describe their "businesses" so that amateur writers like me won't realize the publishers are really scam artists. I was just about to consider this company and I'm truly grateful I found your article!

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Good observations Dee.

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      dee 4 years ago

      It would seem if gay/lesbianism is not addressed but what is acceptable for heaven then the former would be excluded, especially since lesbians do not ave husbands, thus no secret word. Nunn could than gain acceptance were she to marry or be married. As for suicides, et. al. the causes are not restricted but indicative to any society where one is curtailed from personal self-worth as self defined, where rules less questioned and freely accepted are employed, and where one's position is dicated rather than earned. Especially true where sex, race, and religion are involved. And in religion, to be taught it is our way or hell is hard to overcome.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      I'm not sure I quite follow you. I will tell you this - it is factual that Mormons are literally taught to lie if it will "further the cause" and that of course is to bring people into the Mormon fold. This is a well-kept secret but it is fact as I know a number of former LDS.

      Now - I don't think the LDS Church really addresses the issue of Lesbianism re: heaven. It's just not allowed in the LDS Church. It's so funny - it's like the polygamist sects of Mormonism (which adhere BTW to the early teachings of Joseph Smith - a polygamist and Brigham Young - also a polygamist). The Mormon Church ignore them - therefore (to the LDS Church) they simply don't exist. I think that's essentially the prevailing attitude the church has with the gay community. It's not necessarily because she's gay that Nunn won't get into heaven. It's because she won't follow the Mormon "rules" to do it. Like marrying a Mormon man, pay her 10% tithes, have that marriage in the Mormon Temple - go through the Mormon Temple Ceremony and die a married (to a man) woman. You can't - according to Mormondom - get into heaven unless you do ALL of those things. Not to mention the husband HAS to say that "secret" code word for her to get through the veil into heaven.

      Add to your observations that for years (haven't checked the stats lately) Utah - where 7 out of 10 are LDS - they broke the U.S. record for the most anti-depressant meds, the most female and teenage suicide, the most sexual crimes against children - the sickening list goes on and on.

      I hope I answered your question.

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      Dee 4 years ago

      So then you hold with some aspects of Mormonism if as a lesbian someone is excluded? Or is it a matter of deeds, than predetermination is not the issue. Perhaps your thinking is that if Nunn is a Moramon but desires the church to change its thinking on gays, she does so somehow hoping for acceptance into heaven? That could make sense if she truly believed, if so then the church does not look terribly bad on the means by which she gets money. That might if one considers Utah has one of,k if not the highest, rates of pyramid type marketing business in their state. It might then say how one makes a living is og lesser import as long as one give a tenth and of course then a tenth of a greater number is better. It too might justify less than honorable behavior as long a s those practicing think by giving they are redeemed. if not forgiven. It does sound like buying indulgences. Or, have I interpreted this in error.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      I always used to joke that if a Mormon wife had an argument with her husband and then he drops dead in the middle of it - she's screwed...

      Unless of course she married another Mormon man, paid their 10% tithes & married in the temple. BUT if you don't pay 10% of all your earnings to the LDS Church you can't marry in the temple and if you don't marry in the Mormon Temple you can't go to Mormon heaven. But IF she did all that again and DIDN'T argue with her husband - she just may have a chance to get to Mormon heaven.

      Which is NOT going to happen to Nunn because she's a lesbian.

      I take ENORMOUS comfort in that knowledge...

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      anon 4 years ago

      So if a woman, due to her husband's lack of faith, might land in some lower tier but be less her husband. Can she then date or is she alone? Of course I jest but the description seems to be explicit, each Mormon is assigned a personal eternal location. How dreadfully boring. One could say then, if heaven is as secluded then God's plan is for seclusion beyond family. If one strives for heaven on earth than one must not necessarily renounce neighbors but certainly should spend less time with and more with the spouse. Would create then a world os many small fiefdoms competing rather than cooperating. So why then tithe to support a unit that in effect says the goal removal from others? Why not just get a wife and live in the country alone?

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Oh - I assume nothing - I honestly don't. I'm completely baffled as to how she has skirted the law for so long. Your conjecture could be possible in any combination.

      Mormon hell - that is so complicated to explain - I've studied their religion - read their BOM and all holy books of the LDS Church for almost two decades. But in simple form - there is no hell for MOST LDS - only different tiers when a Mormon dies. The "top" is the best one - if you marry a Mormon of the opposite sex in The Temple Ceremony and for a woman - if your husband calls your name through the veil - you're in like Flynn at the top ruling over your own planet earth making god-babies. Yes. The best LDS heaven means you and your god husband will make spirit babies to populate your very own planet earth - why LDS have to have so many babies - to have a body to put the Mr. And Mrs. God's spirit babies into.

      If you're a Mormon and REJECT Mormonism you're in big trouble. That's when you're cast into the outer darkness/void. That's their only hell so to speak. You're toast. So I guess she keeps herself "safe" to a degree because she still buys the doctrine - however, she won't have a husband to call her through the veil PLUS she's a "Jack Mormon" plus I'm SURE she doesn't tithe 10% of all her earnings - and if you don't do that, you can't get to Mormon heaven on any top level. So she just may be in a gray area, but for a Mormon it's a bad area. So the very least she's going to be on one of the lower rungs of "Mormon heaven" - that's the best she'll do. She may be teetering on the edge of outer darkness - which is a really bad Mormon hell and not even on one of the heaven tiers - she'll be eternally in darkness. My bet - she's on a one way track to outer darkness.

      She has MUCH to keep her awake at night and I receive great comfort from that as I sleep soundly with a clear conscience.

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      dee 4 years ago

      you assume as a green consultant to the publishing industry, read consultant as how she obtains her money from ABPG she migh very well be not reporting income, she might be filtering it through someone else, she migh in fact be in pursuit by the IRS. if she is running some group as a "chairty" who knows how she might hide the money. She may be paying herslf as a consultant and failing to provide 1099s thus it is written-off at the one end but no records means no need to declare at the other. It does mean the possibilty of an audit but many risk that. Or, she might be making so little she pays no federal taxes. Or, she runs all money entering legitmatley but that doesn't mean it is earned legitemately. Remember the IRS can't go after everyone from a stand point of resources. "Mormon hell." That baits some explanation/description.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      I still don't get it though. If this were me - I would have been in jail years ago no matter how many times I would have moved. Sure it would take awhile to get caught, but we're military - we've moved 21 times in 25 years - they ALWAYS found me (not that I have ever done anything illegal, but even our mail that wasn't forwarded would find its way to us). Granted, I didn't use aliases - but she had to use at least ONE social security number if not more - and more is I think - a felony isn't it? She's obviously broken laws - it's got to be something else that keeps her out of jail - at least thus far. And what about taxes? Does she fill out a form and pay them every year? I think NOT. You'd think the IRS alone would have been on her heels. If that were me - and I had skipped paying my taxes - I'd SO be in jail. I don't get it - and maybe this side of heaven I never will but SOMEDAY she will find out - when she is "cast into the outer darkness." As a Mormon WOMAN she MUST be married IN THE TEMPLE to a Mormon MAN - who will have a secret "code" he'll utter through the "veil" upon her death. If she isn't married when she dies - and even if she was and the husband decides NOT to call her through the veil with that secret code, she goes to Mormon hell. Either way, as a Jack Mormon - she's going to hell. And she believes LDS doctrine, make no mistake. That ALONE should be keeping her up nights. I love it. I sleep like a baby.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      Oh that's exactly what I meant too. If she has lack of sleep which I know she must from time to time - she must wonder when the other shoe will drop and it WILL drop some day if there is any justice in this world. She'll slip up, make one huge mistake that's going to land her butt in jail. Someday.

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      dee 4 years ago

      C Lee Nunn's problems with sleep, if they do exist are more likely relating to getting caught rather than an concern for ethics. I might add, worrying about getting money and surviving as more learn to beware and avoid.

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      anon 4 years ago

      According to one site of warning, C Lee Nunn may be using alias; Nathan Fitzgearl, Kathleen Montgomery, and/or Abigail Woodward Wright. In addition she has gone by, C.Lee Nunn, Lee Nunn, Cheryl Nunn, L. Nunn and Nunn spelled as Nun and I assume a married name of Zylstra. Any who know of ABPG can list the number address changes in Salt Lake City over the past fews years. This in addition to her personal lsiting of resdiences, at least five or six in CA. Perhaps all that moving makes it difficult to "catch" her, perhaps the amounts she takes are not worth the effort of pursuit. Given her suspension and Forbes suit it might hold true, larger amounts or greater detriment bring actions. For certain, given the low sales volumes of ABPG books she can not make a living from sales to readers. Only leaves sales to writers and that has been covered in depth.

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      Carol 4 years ago from Michigan

      I distinctly remember that group you're talking about anon as it was the first time I actually saw what she looked like when someone led me to her gay Mormon cause. I'm sure she fleeced everyone and then simply moved on. I'm absolutely flummoxed as to why someone, somewhere doesn't catch her and put her in jail where she belongs. I remember when when as one of her alias - she threatened to sue me if I didn't take this Hub down. I told her, nope and she could stop with the "Nathan" ruse as I knew it was her. She wrote back - I must be mistaken, that's the former owner - yadda, yadda, yadda. I wrote back, nothing doing - I recognized the terrible spelling and grammatical mistakes - I still had all her emails. And as far as the lawsuit - BRING IT. Then I could take her to court and reveal she's just a con. I ended it with, "I do take comfort in the fact that while you took me for some money, we are blessed that it wasn't a hardship. And at least I could sleep at night with a clear conscience. Have never heard from her again. I take great comfort in knowing she MUST have problems with sleep, wondering when the other shoe will finally drop - living from one con to the other. That is of great comfort to me.