Val Karas ~ Understanding Poetry in Order to Appreciate It

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   Brenda Arledgeposted 23 months ago

   Val tells us how sometimes people follow others just because we know them...not because of the words they speak or write.
   
   We don't always need to understand a deeper meaning because we know what we like...just like a flower blooming takes our fancy even though others might dislike it.
   
   https://hubpages.com/literature/My-Argu … reciate-It

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      tsmogposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      An interesting article by Val. I smiled with skepticism coming upon, For starters, I find it relevant to mention how my position in any matter is never insisting to be the only one being rational.. Then later coming upon; Instead, I am simply voicing my opinion, as I am doing in all my pieces -- many of which didn't beg for any popularity, and didn't get any either.
      
      Popularity is a product of the audience, isn't it? HP is a limited audience and only the Google gods know how to make poetry popular on their search engine. Is there an opportunity for a larger audience? I know I smile if I get five views a month of my two poems on Letterpile, yet have more on my profile. Sometimes I post at Facebook my profile page and get more than those five per month. Hooray! Yet, alas, no comments good nor bad or curious. No matter the poem lives.
      
      The title of the article; My Argument Against "Understanding" Poetry -- in Order to Appreciate It I agreed with to an extent. To me that is the same as a NASCAR enthusiast who appreciates the thrill of auto racing, though knows nothing of what goes into the building of the engine or car nor the passion for it. Yet, there is that connection of driving somewhat the same as knowing how to simply be able to write anything.
      
      Reading the article it seemed to me the aim was to understand a particular poem by the poet. Did I get that wrong? A little criticism of free verse. Later it seemed to be sharing a poem may just cosmically strike a reader leading to simply liking it. Enough said, yet will add; one could say free verse is the poor person's poetry metaphorically speaking when thinking of works like Homer's Odyssey. Talk about understanding.
       
      Poetry is much more vast than free verse, though that is a popular genre since the early 20th century. Frankly, a favorite of mine both as a poet and reader of poetry is Haiku and Haiga. I like the challenge of both hitting the reader with the message using nature and doing so in the 5-7-5 line cadence. Haiga more so using an illustration or picture to embed the Haiku upon cosmically encompassing them as one.
      
      To me, when someone says to me "I am a poet" S/he is saying two things; I have a connection with my inner self and with the cosmos. Is that because I am a poet? I know when I have shared that I hear more often; "I can't write poetry"
      
      I bet my bottom dollar they can with a little help discovering inspiration with paper and pen before them and a little guidance along with encouragement. Simply saying with earnest, "Nice!" can go a long way, though not understanding the poem, although appreciate it. Then magically and mystically a poet becomes.
      
      Enough wandering for now. Forgive me . . .

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         Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

         You make very good points, Tim, especially with the NASCAR example. I love the discussion about poetry that has resulted from this post.

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2. 81

   Brenda Arledgeposted 23 months ago

   Val...
   Maybe to some there is no need to understand a piece of poetry to appreciate...but personally I like to dig deeper & find a unique meaning...if there is one.
   
   I must admit that I'm guilty of not posting my best work here on Hubpages...but that's partly because I feel like Hubpages is part of my family.
   
   I look forward to talking and sharing with other Hubbers.
   
   No matter the topic.
   
   But a beautiful piece of poetry is like that masterpiece by Michaelangelo....there's usually something the artist has hidden behind the scenes.
   
   Prose and poetry can be virtually the same as you so eloquently point out.
   
   I prefer to write with free verse, usually non-rhyming.
   
   Many of my best pieces are written this way, but they are not posted on Hubpages.
   I honestly send my best work to places for possible publication.
   
   Perhaps...I should post a few of them here, but it's hard to let them go so easily.
   
   Once in print on the internet or social media...many publishers will not look at them....so there's the dilemma.
   
   I'm glad you are my friend & I love your straightforward approach.
   
   But for my poetry...it can be insights about feelings of others, or a beautiful sunset, or what a song means to me...like somewhere over the rainbow...which I have a piece published on that theory.
   
   It's not simply feelings coming from a sad part of my heart...although I have written a few of those.
   
   It's about Life.  All phases of it...the good, the happy, the confused, the wonder..etc.
   
   But no matter...
   I am a Poet.
   
   If people like me...that's fine.
   If not, that's fine too.
   
   I will always jot down my words.
   
   Hopefully one day they'll be enough inspiration from Hubpages to post my good work one day.
   
   Take care my friend.
   
   This was an interesting read.
   
   It is all in the eye of the beholder...so to say.

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      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      If people like me...that's fine.
      If not, that's fine too.
      I will always jot down my words."
      
      That's like my strong friend. 
      
      You said it right: it's all in the eye of beholder. 
      Blessings and love as always

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   Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

   Brenda -- Art is something to experience, not something to theorize about in order to "understand" it better. Take those words like love, happiness, freedom, justice, peace... -- people have written books about them, and yet, while it seems like everybody "understands" them all, there is not much genuine love, happiness, freedom, justice and peace.
   So, whatever you are EXPERIENCING from poetry is your intimate inner event that doesn't have to be anybody else's through "understanding" of what exactly you are experiencing. It's your taste, it's the way you process poetry by your inner parameters.
   Everybody can experience beauty and harmony without calling themselves a "poet", so why make it sound like a "profession" at which you are exceling or trying to excel.
   Enjoy your writing, but the fact that some will like it and some others won't doesn't mean that some "understand" it better than others -- they just have their own emotional palette which they use to qualify everything in life, including your creations.
   How can you ever be "better" at poetizing? What will it take? Your better expressing yourself? Or another audience who may appreciate it more?
   But no matter what, it's never about "understanding" it better, and that's what my hub was all about.
   So, go on, you and other poets here, just love your poetical expressions, nothing wrong with that. But don't think that "some just need a better understanding of what poetry is". You don't conceptualize love and beauty -- they are what they are in heart, and everyone has their own ways of experiencing with no need to "understand" something about it.
   Blessings. -- Your friend Val

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      Brenda Arledgeposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Val...
      I do get the meaning behind your Hub.
      You feel others don't need to understand poetry or find that deeper meaning.
      
      I suppose it could be like love, it's all in how one perceives or feels it.
      
      I do call myself a Poet because that is truly my profession.
      
      I don't simply write for the love of it...although I must admit I do enjoy writing.
      
      Like I've said before...words are part of me just like the air I breathe.
      
      There is no need for everyone to enjoy or understand my work.
      
      But i honestly believe...that not all of my writing comes from my own experiences.
      
      I'm a very sensual person & I can put myself in the situations of others...thus my understanding or perception of how they might feel.
      
      I do that often when I write for The Writer's Club/GreyThoughts.Info
      
      I love to read poetry by other author's, but to Me....
      It is through "understanding" that the poem comes to life.
      
      Guess we just have a different perception on this one.
      
      I often enjoy your poems because there is a message hidden within the lines...
      Quite artistic actually...but I know...You say you are not a Poet.
      
      Just have fun & enjoy life.  It's way too short, ya know.
      
      Your friend
      Brenda

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   Jodahposted 23 months ago

   Hello there Brenda,
   Thank you for sharing this.
   Val’s point of view is interesting,
   I never try to analyse poetry either.
   Some analysis on famous poetry I read
   Seemed to be copies of previous opinions.
   I welcome readers attempts to analyse mine.
   I love reading what they find in my poetry,
   Not that I really want to hide anything,
   I like my message to be quite clear.
   There is a place for every form
   Rhyming or free-verse etc.
   You read what you like,
   Or choose not to.

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      Brenda Arledgeposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      John...
      That is true.
      
      You read what you like...there are often pieces of work I don't even finish reading.
      
      I suppose it's like a good book.  It either hooks me or it doesn't.
      
      I won't go into a deep analysis of a poem, but I do like understanding what the author is trying to say.

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         Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

         Yes, I am the same. I will often give a new writer a look, but if the first stanza or two doesn’t grab me or is littered with spelling mistakes etc. I won’t read further. If a poem looks promising and has a lot of feeling I may email them with some advice on how it could be improved.
         
         Also, the length of a piece of writing often determines if I read it or not. If a poem has more than say 600 words I usually won’t bother reading, and an article my limit is about 1400. I would rather read 10 x 500 word poems than 5 x 1000 word articles.

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            Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

            +1

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   Aliswellposted 23 months ago

   Once again, because I don't have the choice to comment on Val's creations...I must post links

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   Aliswellposted 23 months ago

   https://hubpages.com/health/Yanking-the … nal-Nudity
   
   Thank you my Friend! Once again, you crushed it!

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   Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

   I'm happy you liked it, my Friend.

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   Misbah786posted 23 months ago

   I agree with John and Bredz.
   
   Mr. Val, you've piqued my interest once again. Lol! I'm curious why you contributed so much to LetterPile if this is your opinion of poets and their work. I am wondering what draws you back each time?
   
   I'm guessing you have a strong love for poetry, but you're afraid to admit it. I understand your opinions, but I cannot agree with them.
   
   So, I am submitting here that there is nothing universally, absolutely, axiomatically beautiful about poetry either. Therefore, there is nothing to be "understood" about it, or a "taste to be developed" for it.
   
   ..... with all due respects, I completely disagree!
   
   Poets, I believe, are both powerful and magical. They do wonders! Poetry has meanings for those with tender hearts. I propose that a poem can convey a powerful message in four lines that a thousand word article cannot.
   
   Take care!

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      Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Well said, Misbah.

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         Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

         Thanks a lot, my friend 

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   Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

   Misbah, dear -- Your comment drew a friendly smile from me; first for that cute mind-reading attempt of saying how "I am scared to admit how I love poetry". Now, now...
   Your disagreement may, or may not stem from your having missed the point of my article. It was about "understanding" poetry (even the title is saying that), and I can only repeat how there is nothing to "understand" there -- you either respond to a poem one way or another, without any solid parameters of what "poetry should be like in order to be appreciated".
   Are you beginning to get it this time?
   Poetry, like any other aspect of art, is in the eye of the beholder.
   So, I may like something what Garcia Lorca wrote, and not like the "poem" about coronavirus that you can see if you scroll up or down on this forum.
   Again, there is nothing "absolutely" beautiful about poetry -- it depends on your taste. Art is all under the sign of relativity.
   And then you are asking me why I always come back. I am a VERY complex personality, my dear, and my having fun with something doesn't automatically mean that I am "passionate" about it.
   I may write a poem in the pause of doing my kundalini meditation, qigong, or self-hypnosis practice, and I may be satirically minded while making fun of my own ego, or someone else's and sublimating it into a form of a poem.
   It mostly doesn't even matter what I may write, as writing is not my main brain's delicacy. I often write "poetic garbage", and it doesn't bother me that I do.
   Do I "love" poetry? Again, if it strikes me as beautiful, I like it. And I am not "contributing to Letter Pile", as you are saying -- I never ask to be placed in ANY of the special sites, they put my crap there by themselves.
   So, back to "understanding" poetry -- I don't mind if you are finding something there to be "understood" -- to me it's like a beautiful woman, I don't care "why" I find her beautiful, analyzing might just spoil it. My article is basically saying the same -- there is nothing there to "understand", to go smart about, to build a criterion about it's beauty.
   Poetry is about heart, not mind.
   I hope now my article looks a little more clear. I know, English is only my second language after my native Croatian -- and I may not always deliver a clear cut point of what I mean.
   But, as a principle, I truly don't mind that you disagreed, my friend. Always feel free to disagree with anything I write, I will embrace your criticism as your own way of seeing things. It would be a sad day for me if we all started reasoning the same way.
   All the best to you. By the way, I like your new profile picture.

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      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you very much, Mr. Val. "Poetry is about the heart, not the mind," we can agree on this one.
      
      My second language is also English. So, no worries, I may make more errors in writing than you can ever make.
      
      At the very least, you agreed that you enjoy poetry when it is beautiful. I won't ask why; as you said, analyzing it might ruin it.
      
      By the way, I like how you always come back; it shows that some things are simply beyond our control, just as your love of writing is beyond your control.
      
      Your satires sometimes cause pain and sometimes cause a grin, but as we all know, it's all in the eye of the beholder.
      
      I didn't miss any of your points in your article. I remember you once said to me you don't like me being sweet and kind, so I hit you with criticism this time. Lol!​ (Just kidding)
      
      Oh, and I read the coronavirus poem in the forums. What a work of art. Haha!
      
      Thank you for your compliment on my profile photo; it is to satisfy HP's ego, at least; I guess it makes it clear to search engines that I am a human, not an AI software. Lol!
      
      Thank you for engaging. It is always a pleasure to interact with you.
      
      Stay happy and blessed!

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    Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

    Misbah dear -- Writing is not "beyond my control", querida, because we are not in a struggle at all. If I thought it was my addiction, I would get rid of it "cold turkey", like quit my 2 packs of cigarettes, my beer, coffee, sugar, and flour products. You have no idea how far goes my control. I write because it's fun, but I could stop it any time. To me, writing is in the category of doing my daily crossword puzzle. Unlike you guys, I rarely communicate, so it's not my place of socializing. Even though it's always a pleasure to exchange few words like we are doing now.
    Again, enjoy your own world, amigita. It was pleasure having this little chat with you.

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    PurvisBobbi44posted 23 months ago

    Val,
    
    Wow! You make me smile with your opinions, and sometimes I laugh. If you are from this planet, Happy Thanksgiving; if not, land your ship and visit a family that celebrates because you might enjoy the food.
    
    Bobbi Purvis

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    Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

    Bobbi -- Here came yet another cute gal to make pleasant this morning to this 78 years old fart. As you may have noticed, I am always straightforward, not much of a white-glove diplomat in me, so when I say that I deeply appreciate your comment, I am not saying it as a cliche.
    Well, the last I checked, I think I have some qualities of a human, so I must be from this planet, unless I am a shapeshifter. Just kidding. But kidding aside, so often I do feel like an alien soul reincarnated at this crazy place. I just don't know why I got punished, what I did "up there" to be sent to this planet. Oops, kidding again. I must have been a standup comedian in my space life -- turned a satirist on this planet.
    As for Thanksgiving, we had ours already here in Canada.
    I love turkey meat, it's full of l-tryptophan, the amino acid that makes you calm. Geez, why would I want to be any calmer, since I can make myself blissful at will. That's what we do on my planet-X, we don't wait for something good to happen to feel ecstatic. So I already had my morning routine of special practices which includes that bliss -- when I noticed that by the Law of Attraction I attracted generous and friendly comment from an attractive young lady. Well, life is good to me. I am not satirizing because anything could make me bitter -- at least for that I am smart enough -- bitterness is not good for my digestion.
    But O.K., before this response to your comment turns into a hub -- have a fabulous day, you sweet earthly creature, and say hello again sometime.
    And yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you and to your dear ones, enjoy the l-tryptophan bird.

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    Farah N Huqposted 23 months ago

    I couldn’t go through all the comments here but I will add my thoughts on it. “What’s there to understand in poetry?”-That’s the topic of discussion here. Every art form has its uniqueness. Let’s take dance for example. I can learn a few steps and attempt to dance (and yes anything does go here as well) but my experience and expertise will easily get noticed by someone who is an expert dancer or someone who follows it keenly. So are my body movements artistic enough to call it “dance” and not just “movements”? Will the expert eyes “understand” the art in them? Well, all dance forms involve movements of some kind but Bharat Natyam is quite different from belly dancing and an expert in one may not understand or appreciate the art in the other form of movement at all! Similarly, I see poetry in two ways. As a reader and as a poet. I love rhyming most of my pieces. I love to express my thoughts and emotions through rhythmic concealed lines. Sometimes I simply narrate my experiences through them. When I rhyme I feel confident that it is probably taking the age-old form of poetry. I am yet to master or completely understand free verse in English. However, in my native language Bangla, free verse has a totally different grace that is easily understandable. So as a reader, I can instantly identify what appeals to me as poetry and what doesn’t. Poetry appeals to me when I can relate to the lines or when I can understand what the poet meant, even when written in the form of free verse (which, as I have mentioned, I fail to attempt properly while writing my poetry forms). I read an award-winning English poem a few days back and wondered why it got selected as numero uno! I failed to see why it was considered unique either as poetry or prose. But if the experts chose it to be the best then it must’ve had something in it! So I guess I failed to understand that part.
    I do not consider all my poems “good” but I try to touch the baseline where it gets considered as “poetry” by most, if not all. Whether they are “good poems” or “bad poems” I leave it to the readers to decide...though I must say, I don’t care about the verdict much. If it soothes my heart, if even ONE person can relate to my words, if the lines can touch one soul far away in an unknown land or a distant time, I am happy to be the kind of “poet” I am.

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    Jodahposted 23 months ago

    You gave a very good explanation, Farah. “ If it soothes my heart, if even ONE person can relate to my words, if the lines can touch one soul far away in an unknown land or a distant time, I am happy to be the kind of “poet” I am.” I agree with those words totally.
    Yes, I too have read award-winning poetry, and thought to myself “How?” But then I have no formal training as a poet, so I like to think those expert judges know more than me. However, I know what I like and what I don’t.
    Your poetry is excellent by the way.

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    AliciaCposted 23 months ago

    I completely agree, Farah and John. I think the reaction to poetry is very personal. What is meaningful for one person may not be meaningful for someone else. I too have seen poems that have won awards or have been praised that haven't moved me. There is nothing "wrong" with their composition and content as far as I can tell, but they haven't appealed to me.

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       Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

       Exactly, Linda.

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    Farah N Huqposted 23 months ago

    Thank you so much, John, for the acknowledgement! Really means a lot

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    Farah N Huqposted 23 months ago

    I am happy to know we think alike on this, dear Linda...

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    Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

    Happy to see that everybody is getting the point of my hub. Indeed, imagine reading someone's poem, and -- if you had a heart to tell the author that it didn't move you at all -- they complain with: "You didn't UNDERSTAND it".
    That's all that the hub was basically saying, albeit at a great length with some other points attached. Dancing was mentioned in comments, with some solid criteria that have to exist about what is a good performance and what isn't. I agree, and yet, how many people simply don't like the whole choreography despite a great critic by experts.
    So, what is to be called true art?
    Is it what experts are calling so, or what the public FEEL about it?
    To give you a somewhat silly example -- suppose someone in my family said to me when I was young: "You should marry that woman because she looks beautiful TO ME."
    I know, the example is silly but with its extreme it applies to our question.
    A poet may say that they love poetry for its depth, which has to be understood -- but again, it's that poet who may find something deep there, not necessarily the next person.
    So again, there is nothing absolutely, undeniably, axiomatically beautiful about poetry -- simply because we cannot generalize there -- some poems we feel as poetry, and some other as a crap which only meant something to the poet. And if even two experts disagree over a beauty of poem -- where does it bring us in reasoning about what is to be "understood" in poetry?
    Anyway, I'm glad that we seem to be on the same page here.

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       Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

       I am so glad you wrote that article, Val. It has certainly highlighted how much poetry is in fact valued by people.

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    Farah N Huqposted 23 months ago

    Dear Mr. Val, there are so many things on heaven and earth that are beyond our understanding but that doesn’t make them unworthy of some exploring and appreciation. We may not understand or appreciate the substance in a particular poem but someone else might! About that award-winning poem that I didn’t understand, well, it won the first prize, didn't it? So I am sure it was my lacking of understanding of the spectacular content which did not escape the eyes of the experts. Not all award-winning movies need to be liked and understood by everyone. The same goes for novels and songs and the list is endless. There is a common question that gets asked here in my area- “which one can you relate to- the mountain or the sea?” I happen to be a “sea” person- The ones with the calm and quiet waves quietly reaching the beaches. My brother loves mountains. So I loved Bali and I love to visit Cox’s Bazaar in my country, which is the longest sea beach in the world. My brother, however, didn’t like Bali that much. He loves visiting Bhutan. Why we have that difference in our opinion is beyond our understanding but that doesn’t make any of our choices “crap”. It’s just that different people have different tastes and that is normal. If I think of something as being crap, I usually ignore commenting on it altogether because I am sure it means something to the writer for sure and probably to many other readers. I prefer not to disrespect someone’s creation. But yes, I do agree with you that sometimes people push you to say that you MUST like something to be a literary genius and I don’t agree with this. In that, yes we are on the same page as you mentioned but I will not say there is nothing to understand in their work rather I’d say my understanding of it did not match up to theirs. What is crap to me may be a beautiful piece of art to someone else who can FEEL and appreciate the content with which the artist had created it.

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       Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

       Thank you for sharing your insight, Farah. You explained your views so well with these examples.

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    Farah N Huqposted 23 months ago

    And to add to the “understanding” part....I read one of your poems where you connected mosques and militants. Tell me something, did you ever visit a mosque in person? Your understanding of it is limited to what is shown on the media. Why not visit one someday to see what it’s all about. I am not saying you have to like it but at least you will understand that mosques and militants are not synonymous.

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       Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

       Well said, Farah. Thank you for this lovely post and for spreading awareness. I greatly appreciate it. It is critical to explore the reality before passing judgments.
       
       Much love and blessings!
       
       A little self promotion here as it is about militants and mosques
       
       https://discover.hubpages.com/religion- … rty-at-all
       
       Is ISIS Islamic
       
       Islam is Peace! And no religion on earth promotes hatred and violence.  Period!

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          Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          +1000

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             Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

             

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    Vladimir - Val Karasposted 23 months ago

    Farah dear -- I write mostly satires, and oftentimes I mention stereotypes just to degrade them; so, just like they talk about Scottish folks being "cheap", I am mentioning Muslims as being "militant" -- while not believing in either characterization. It would actually be pretty shallow of me to generalize about Muslims that way, just because there are extremists who are doing it "in the name of fighting infidels".
    Now, to take this space for a comment to all who are finding something "untrue" about my position regarding "understanding" poetry" -- I have to laugh, and it's not a "defensive laughter".
    Namely, I fail to get it, why it is so hard to understand the simple message that poetry is in the eye of beholder, and what may be poetry for one may be a piece of crap for the other. Period. What is so hard to understand there?
    We cannot generalize about poetry giving ALL of it some dignified status. Is this hard to understand too?
    Back there we almost agreed that poetry is not something to be analyzed and theorized about -- or UNDERSTOOD as a result of it -- but something for heart to experience -- or not. Are we still on the same page?
    So why all these incredible efforts to put the core of the article down, picking on this or that detail? I never said that one should not enjoy poetry just because they don't understand it. That NASCAR example is even proving my point -- without the author of it being aware of it. Namely, just like you don't have to understand anything about engines and other technicalities, doesn't mean that you cannot enjoy the race. Exactly what my title says, not to go any further than that: "You don't need to 'understand' poetry in order to appreciate it."
    Come on, guys and dolls, do I have to make a drawing of it for you, so it's more obvious? LOL!
    I understand that I am far from being a "star" in the HP constallation -- and quite frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about my popularity, as long as I am saying what I think, not what is "nice" for me to say instead.

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