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Why Free will is Not Only Unscriptural But Also Impossible

Updated on May 25, 2009

Probably the most accepted of all church doctrines is the doctrine of free will. Free will is the ability to make free choices. Many people mistakenly believe that if somebody is given a list of choices for something, that person has a free will. Most christians not only believe this, they believe the bible teaches that God gave us a free will to choose everything. Well, if they interpret free will to be the ability to make choices then they are correct. The bible has hundreds of examples of where mankind has had to make choices, and has many examples of consequences for making bad choices. However, is that what freewill means and are christians consistent in defining this term? I say, absolutelly not. And I think the facts are on my side, here.

First of all, free will (or free moral agency) is the ability to make uncaused choices. Now, almost all ministers and their congregations will say that our choices are not caused. This however, is completely false. Any scientist will assert that every effect must have a cause. Our choices are no different. We may think that our choice came to us totally out of the blue, but this doesn't mean that there are not thousands of variables that lead to us making that choice (check online for an article by Michael Hanelon, "So is free will just an illusion?"). Even deciding on vanilla or chocolate requires us to make a decision. A decision is never absolutely random. You may choose vanilla because you had a good experience the last time you chose vanilla. Or, you may decide to choose the other this time to try something different. And this is just for choosing flavors of ice cream. Imagine the decisions that are the result of:

1. Who our parents are and how they raised us.

2. Where and when we were born.

3. Who we are able to interact with throughout our lives.

4. And most importantly, how our genetics work to make us who we are physically, emotionaly and intellectually.

We do not have the ability to make uncaused choices. And if you think you can choose freely by changing your mind at the last second, the cause was your wanting to go against your intitial plan of action. Let's say that you scratch your nose. I ask, why did you scratch your nose. You would probably say because it itched. So was that choice free? No. It itched. That's what caused you to decide to scratch your nose. So go ahead and let it itch if you think that will make it a free choice. It won't, though.

Now, the churches dogmatically state that we choose God with our "free will". In other words, we make an uncaused choice to choose God. This abosolutely goes against the scriptures and shows just how inconsistent the churches are in defining free will. If you remember, I stated that many feel that free will is the ability to make choices. So therefore, everybody should have the same ability to choose Christ? By this, they are saying that we have no excuse for not choosing Christ as our savior regardless of:

1. Who are parents are and how they raised us.

2. Where and when we are born.

3. Who we are able to interact with throughout our lives.

4. How our genetics work to make us who we are physically, emotionally and intellectually.

But then they may say, well everybody is given a chance.


A chance? Is a chance really enough to expect someone to turn their lives over to Who we may know is their only possible Savior, but SomeOne they rarely hear about? (By the way, there are several people alive and millions over the last two thousand years that have never heard of Jesus Christ.) And they base this assertion on some free will that we all supposedly have. Again, a will is caused by the inumerable experiences one goes through in their lives as well as what they were born with. A will is never free of cause and we never make free choices.

But then, the churches always insist that God gave mankind a free will. I'm sorry, but the scriptures say no such thing. What the scriptures assert is God's absolute sovereignty. From God hardening Pharaoh's heart to Christ choosing His elect, the scriptures are adamant that God is the cause of all. Basically, this means that God sets up situations so that people will make the choices necessarry for His plans to be carried out. But let's be clear on one thing! God does not force people to sin. They sin voluntarilly, That is why man must be judged in order to be saved.

Still the churches insist that God gave mankind a free will out of love. Now, I believe that a free will is scientifically and psychologically impossible. But just to humor the idea:

Would a loving parent give their 2 year old child the free will to choose anything? Perhaps they should be free to run out into the road. Would that parent be commended for showing so much love that he/she gave their child free will to choose?  Well, God is so superior to us that our intellectual abilities are considerably less to those of Him than a 2 year olds are less than his/her parent's. So, that is an absolutelly lame arguament,, , . . . . in my oppinion.

The most insulting assertion of the church though, is their insistence that people either choose heaven or hell. . . . . . . . . .????????

Again, what insane lunitic would choose to be tortured for eternity when they could just choose Christ and go to heaven (and why would a loving God honor such an idiotic choice)? Many people weren't ever given the option of choosing Christ. And how do I know this? Because they never believed in Christ. That's how I know. If their minds could wrap around the reality that Christ is Lord, then I'd bet the farm that they would choose Him. But the church just insists on free will. And I firmly believe that this doctrine was invented to get God off of the hook for sending people to this fabled hell. God would have to be absolutelly evil to do such a thing to His created beings. So, if man has some impossible free will, then perhaps, God's not responsible for such a dispicable act. They even invented a crazy story about how evil created itself. So there was this perfect angel named Lucifer, yadayadayada, chose to rebel, became the devil. Wrong again!!

Isa. 54:16

I created the waster to destroy.

So in other words, Satan was created to be the waster.

I tell ya, this Lucifer story is every bit as made up to fit in with the church doctrine of free will as episodes 1 2 and 3 of Star Wars were made up to try and answer how Darth Vader and the Emperor came about.

But if God created the devil, that would mean that God also created evil, right?

Isa. 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Yep. Guess God has a plan that involves us experiencing evil so that we can build character. But when all is said and done (and some very severe judgment will be done):

1 Cor. 3:15

If anyone’s work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire

God's plan is perfect for all mankind!!


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    • profile image

      Hell N0 3 years ago

      Yes bill. The fires will be at max heat for anyone who dares call the great hell no a fool. Ha ha ha!!

    • profile image

      anonymous 3 years ago

      Bill you're in danger of hellfire!

    • profile image

      Bill 5 years ago

      You all are fools!

    • profile image

      Hell N0 7 years ago

      Well, at first I thought he was about 13, but later he said that he was early college age. He didn't like how I spoofed him with my "who's smarter than a heller" hub. Yeah, it was a little mean, but it was all in fun. I think he took off from hub pages though.

      Thanx for reading tugbo.

    • profile image

      tugbo200-5 7 years ago

      HELL NO

      Great hubs keep-em going.

      Seems to me "afro's mistake " is not a kid.


    • LoveSoftly profile image

      LoveSoftly 7 years ago

      Hell NO...You've still got it! Just because you do it differently doesn't mean you don't do it!! ;)

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      lilred 7 years ago

      Wow! Very interesting pen name she chose for herself. Thanks for the link, Hell NO, it does work, and thanks for spreading the True Gospel. Keep up the great work :-)

    • profile image

      Hell N0 7 years ago

      Actually, Carrie Bradshaw is not her real name. She got that name from some writer for Sex in The City or something. She now goes by Judah's Daughter. What a laugh. Anyway, maybe the following link will work lilred. Hope you enjoy it. It was taken off of hubpages because Carrie's people complained.

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      lilred 7 years ago

      Carrie Bradshaw 16 months ago

      And as far as God being the One to make the choice of salvation for us, how can one be saved through judgment or fire? You mean to imply that God will first judge everyone and expect them to make a choice? If they can't and He can, He can choose to save before puting His children through fire! You are making God out to be cruel, not we!

      First of all Carrie, no one on here is "implying" anything about how God judges us, the scriptures clearly state that EVERYONE will be judged. It's very ironic that you make the absurd claim that the gentlemen on this hub is making God out to be cruel, when by YOUR beliefs, the fate of a mass murderer, rapist, child molester, etc., and someone who is guilty of having never accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, but who has otherwise lived a decent life and has never knowingly hurt anybody will all suffer the EXACT SAME FATE: ETERNAL TORTURE IN FIRE!!! Now who's making God out to be cruel?! My apologies to you, Hell NO, for ranting, but when I read this inane argument by Carrie, I just could not help commenting on the complete irony of her statement.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      well then in that case im proud of you

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Why would I be offended? I butched up a long time ago. And yes, God made me stop crying like a little girl those many years ago.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      lol wow you are so funny. i almost got offended and then i waz like wait a second(Im not even black) and for a second i couldnt tell if you were really joking or trying to be insulting. either way i guess i did go there. and wat do you know(you got offended) i thought we couldnt control our actions big boy? if so then wats the point of getting offended of anything i say?

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Oh no you didn't. Are you implying that white people don't have good inuendos? Boy, I gots more soul in my left foot than you have in your whole body. Thus, my imploring you to "butch up". It basically means to stop crying like a little girl. You dig?

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Oh, and P.S.

      BUTCH UP!!!

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Insensitivity to what? Someone's sacred belief in eternal hell? I'm here to rip that damn doctrine in half. I realize that perhaps the eternal hell doctrine is a long held belief in your family. But I'm here to tell you that it's a lie. No, not a lie that people usually know is a lie, but one that has been passed down through several generations. Now I'm sorry that you don't approve of my candor, but I'm not changing until and unless God changes me. Right now, His plan is for me to be a sarcastic flame thrower and to expose the evil doctrine of hell. He can deal with my short comings in His time. But rather than sit here and reprimand someone who is at least twice your age, why not read what I have written and then decide whether to dispute it. But something tells me that you have no idea of how well I have proven my points. Anyhow, get reading and read it all again. May God open your eyes to His truths.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      and you're insensitivity has been aggravating.

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      No, I'm anything but smug. I call it the way I see it. Let me assure you that it is only by the grace of God that you are not a homosexual sister killer. So, do you really believe that if there is no hell then there is no reason to be a good person? Perhaps you should read some of what I have written about judgment. It won't be a walk in the park by any means. But what judgment isn't, is some eternal torture chamber. It will set evil right. The scriptures are not as easy to understand as you might think. They are basically instruction for the elect. Now if you think I'm smug, perhaps you think that I consider myself the elect at this time. I say no such thing and nobody knows for sure. But right now, I think your super sensitivity is getting aggravating.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      once again the way you word it. i do agree with you some what(although if you constantly insult people(and im not saying you do) then it would be wrong and foolish to blame God and say he's the reason why you're so cynical) also you was not disproving me at all when you said you were sorry that i was a so called homosexuall sister killer, obviously i was using that as an example explaining why it kinda makes no sense to be good in the first place. by using those examples i in no way said that i wished to kill my sister or that i was a homosexual you simply used those anologies to your advantage to ridicul me. well i gotta say.........

      you must be smug.

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      AM, again, I don't insult people. . . . .well, maybe Carrie and Dent because they are ridiculous, but generaly, I insult the hell doctrine. And it should be insulted because it's evil. Free will is a false doctrine used to defend a false god that sends people to the eternal barbacue pit. It's neither scriptural nor scientific. I don't berate people for not understanding something as well as I do. And what results do you think I'm looking for? Really, I am not going to change the minds of those who are absoulutely indoctrinated by a life time of false teachings. What I hope to do is to witness to those who question those doctrines and are looking for answers. I may not be a real smart person or be that keen on the scriptrues. But I know what I know and I was gifted with the power of "wit". It works. It gets the attention of readers. I don't ask people to write like I do. Why do you think that I would or could change my style? It's how God made me. And we are to answer a fool according to their folly. Answering a hell teacher (heller) with foolish assumptions concerning their desires is a prime example. Now, you were insulted when I originally said that I'm sorry you want to kill your sister. But that's because you said, "I might as well kill my sister". You mean if there's no hell? Please, that's a foolish statement and I answered according to it. But I am not trying to tear you down right now. If you are searching for truth then I'd love to help in any way that I can. I have written 23 articles (one was sanctioned because it named names) on these hub pages and I believe that I have answered every argument for the evil teaching of hell that exists. Some of it is satire and a few have nothing to do with the hell doctrine. Just click on my title (Hell NO) and click "more". Read every single one and notice that every angle of the hell doctrine is covered. I wish you well in your search.

      God be with you.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      lol of course of course. but to rebuke ones teachings is one thing but to use witty comments to insult is another thing. keep in mind that regardless of where you dwell you will always meet fools so in order to treat fools act as if you respect them, yet what their teaching is totally wrong. after that explain to them why their wrong in the most loving way you can manage. im sure you'll get better results.

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      AM,I want you to go back to my reply to "nobody" and really digest what Christ had to say to the blind theologians of that day. And then, why don't you take a strong look at what it is that I'm insulting. These people teach the most disgusting doctrine ever invented. And by the way, Carrie has no idea of what she's talking about. You may consider me rude, but my intentions are to destroy a false doctrine and not any individual person. Believe me, if God opens your eyes during this life time, you may very well see why I write this way. You may still not agree with my style as many don't, who know these truths. But once you know the truth about hell and the doctrines used to support it, you will surely look at my style from a different perspective as you will no doubt, hate the hell teaching as much as I hate it.

    • afro's mistake profile image

      afro's mistake 8 years ago from dorothys kansas

      you know hell no, a while ago somebody named nobody commented on this and said if you disagree with her u should just stop talking to carrie and refrain from using the hurtful words, to be honest whether your right or she's right(i do think she has the right idea although i agree with you when she obviously sometimes contradict herself) but i do think you have a bit of a problem when it comes to dealing with ppl who dont believe what you say, non-hurtfully. but you know i just wanted to let you know that mabye it would be alright to lay it down a little with the insults.....

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      thad 8 years ago

      Does Carrie unstand that if she chooses Jesus of her own free will, that it makes Christ' sacrifice for all of none of none effect. Like the priests in the old testiment, which made a physical sacrifice for all of the Jewish people, Christ laid down His life once for sin. To believe in Christ is to believe who He said He was. The faith that you are saved through, is knowing without seeing salvation, that you Will be raised from death to life! The penalty for sin has been paid for all, Which is death! That is why ALL are resurected in the end! His elect first, then the rest of the dead Will be ressurected. All mens works will be tried by the consuming fire of God! Some shall receive there reward, others works will be burned up. The creature itself shall not be burned up, but shall be saved so as by fire! Some people don't understand this. Jesus is the foundation that was laid be fore the world began! That is the only thing that will be left of some. What a grand thing to build on after that. Has Carrie ever thought who the kings and priest of God will rule over in the kingdom. Great hub by the way hell-no. I'm not alone anymore! Thaddeus Cole

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      thad  8 years ago

      Carrie is wrong on another point. Just to say that a sinner will stay in HELL for eternity is in itself judging all sinners! Jesus already died for sin and ascended to the Father! He is in the Holiest of Holies! He is now the propiation for our sins,and not only mine but the whole world! Carrie acts like Jesus is still dying for sin! He died once for all to be testified in due time! That means it wil happen in due time and you will see it!

    • profile image

      thad 8 years ago

      One more time. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God! Is the KJV the word of god? Or is jesus the word of god? Lets check scripture; John 1:14 And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of only the begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. So you see, if jesus does not make known His mysteries to us, we will not or cone not understand. Thaddeus Cole

    • profile image

      thad 8 years ago

      One more time. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God! Is the KJV the word of god? Or is jesus the word of god? Lets check scripture; John 1:14 And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of only the begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. So you see, if jesus does not make known His mysteries to us, we will not or cone not understand. Thaddeus Cole

    • profile image

      thad 8 years ago

      Also about 3:00 this morning I had to go to the hospital, I had a choice whether to go or not, but my chioce had a cause beyond my control! Can you believe that!

    • profile image

      thad 8 years ago

      Toan earlier comment of carrie's. Jesus is the judge of the world! Jesus is also the savior of the world! If Jesus died for the sins of the world why would He then pronouce eternal torture on close to 90% of the world! We badly need to pray for Carrie, she still is a sister in Christ.

    • profile image

      Ast  8 years ago

      Alrighty-o, Carrie! I followed this little discussion long enough and I darn near tore my entire head off in the face of such dense denseness. JL and Hell NO presented dozens of scripture to you to prove your doctrine wrong. And how did you respond?

      "...I've come to find out you guys are actually of Armstrongism and is it any miracle that I first read Armstrong's book first, stating that he and Armstrong are God's two final witnesses? Why isn't Armstrong still alive if he's to be killed by the antichrist, left in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days and raised from the dead before our eyes? You guys are following Satan himself and seem to be proud of your mission to destroy Christians."

      WHAT?! What the hell does that have ANYTHING to do with the scripture Hell NO just posted? Do you have any idea how dense you sounded, even to a similarly clueless lunkhead like myself? In fact, I've never heard of that Armstrong guy before that post, and from what others have commented, he sounds like a looney and I'm not about to read up on him.

      Oh, and your other equally dense-a-licious comment:

      "JL, I cannot minister or reason with you any longer. As I stated, your heart is hardened and your eyes blinded."

      Since WHEN did you try to reason with him? As far as I can see, every point you bring up has been completely crushed to powder by the oh-so-awesome Scripture quotes... AND THEN, you say it's too long winded, and implied that you didn't even read the whole thing. Who's reasoning with who?

      "I am not your Savior; Jesus is."

      We said as much.

      "Perhaps wepjr is ready to take you guys on, but if it's God's will to let you remain in your mire, so it is."

      You just denied free will. Excellent! Finally some light, then.

      "I'm not led to continue with you anymore. The battle may appear to be "won" by you, but the war is not over"

      We have no desire to "war" with you and your silly christian Kinnnnnnnnniggits, our only purpose is to expose ridiculous false doctrines and, naturally, ridicule them because they are so ridiculous.

      I'm not angry, just in disbelief, and amusement. Surely it takes a miracle for your house of sand to still be standing. Praise the Lord indeed.

      In conclusion, I fart/laugh/headdesk in your general direction.

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      God uses the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. that means God thinks preaching is foolishness but He uses it to save those He calls His own.

      I will continue until God calls me to not respond.  Sometimes God commands me to keep quiet, other times He commands me to Expose Those Who Contradict. All is of and up to God. God creates vessels of dishonor and honor. 

      God gives people over to their carnal mind.  God directs EVERY man's steps.  This very conversation is directed by God, just as every other conversation in the entire world is directed by God.  He controls all things at all times.

      God creates people who murder, God creates people who rape, kill, steal etc.  If you are not one of these people then you can give thanks to God that He did not call upon you to live that life.

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      t rafeiro 8 years ago

      JL if you believe that God is sovereign and controls all things,why do you continue with this debate.Remember Jesus Christ paid a ransom for all to be testified in DUE time,she will see when God decides. God bless

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Where did Carrie get the idea that she was ministering to me?  But yet she steals what I have presented to her from the Holy Scriptures, that Jesus is the SAVIOR of ALL, which she previously claimed was a lie. Carrie I have never met someone who contradicted herself so many times in the same sentence and even moreso claims to be ignorant of doing so.  Your a real piece of work Carrie.  You have a serious Faith problem... as in you have none.

      I will continue to pray for God to give you understanding Carrie, IF it is HIS WILL.  NOT yours since you have stated many times in previous posts that you can do as you please without God's involvement or control.  Heck you say God isn't even able to control His own creation.  You claim God isn't able to and doesn't want to save all of His children. 

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, are you not capable of coming up with your own original thoughts?

      Why do you take what I have already stated to you & try to make it your own?  Clearly, you’ve shown.. YET AGAIN that you are unable to think for yourself.

      You constantly take what others have presented and steal it and recycle it as your own words.  I don’t think you even know the most basic of God’s truths.

      I would suggest you read my hubs and ask God for His guidance and wisdom.  You clearly are lacking in both.

      Carrie, your prayers fall on deaf ears since you do not ask God to do HIS Will but your own. A clear sign of a heretic and blasphemer. I imagine you entire church is filled with such like minded individuals.

      I will pray earnestly for you Carrie

      FATHER, I humbly ask you, IF IT BE YOUR WILL, to guide Carrie to YOUR truths. If IT BE YOUR WILL, open her eyes and ears to YOUR TRUTHS. if it be YOUR WILL FATHER, Help her to know YOU Father and NOT the god that her church worships in vain. We know that YOU FATHER, are CAPABLE OF ALL THINGS, THAT NO ONE CAN GO AGAINST your WILL FATHER. IF IT BE YOUR WILL FATHER, give her accurate KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR HOLY SCRIPTURES FATHER and not the man-made doctrines you have desired her to know thus far. AS YOUR WILL IS DONE IN HEAVEN FATHER, LET IT ALWAYS BE DONE ON EARTH THROUGH US YOUR FAITHFUL as we reach for that Highest Calling. Though JESUS CHRIST'S NAME, I Pray FATHER. AMEN!

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      I'll help you out Carrie. Michael Jackson sang "just b--- it".

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      JL, I cannot minister or reason with you any longer. As I stated, your heart is hardened and your eyes blinded. I am not your Savior; Jesus is. Perhaps wepjr is ready to take you guys on, but if it's God's will to let you remain in your mire, so it is. I'm not led to continue with you anymore. The battle may appear to be "won" by you, but the war is not over. I lift you and those of your false teachings up to the Lord, for the battle is HIS, not mine. AMEN.

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      v. 16  For if the Firstfruit be holy… A little leaven leavens the whole lump.  So who are the branches?  Israel is the branches.  Now the Firstfruit is Christ and He is holy.

      v. 16 …the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. But they are cast off.  They were broken off.

      v. 17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree (Romans, Gentiles, us), we’re grafted in among them, and with them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

      v. 18  Boast not against the branches... Why not?  Why not say, ‘we’re saved and to hell with all those people in hell.’

      v. 18 …But if you boast, you bears not the root, but the root you.

      v. 19  You wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

      v. 20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith (you’re grafted in). Be not highminded, but fear: Oh really?  How many theologians “fear” when they talk about them being saved and the rest of the world going to hell in a hand basket for all eternity.  ‘And it’s fair,’ Dr. Kennedy says, ‘and it’s justice,’ says Mr. Hagee and many many more give there amen to such utter nonsense.

      v. 21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not you.

      v. 22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off. But we are not at the end yet.  Is it conceivable that some of them that He was talking to were cut off? 

      Yes I think so, you go to the book of Hebrews and it says if you sin willfully, willingly, knowingly, wantingly after you have come to the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for you (Heb. 10:26).

      Is that the end though?  Remember God declares the end, the total end from the beginning, when death is swallowed up in victory?  Is that the end?  No if you read further back in Hebrews, there is no more sacrifice for you, BUT!  But what?  JUDGMENT! What did we learn in Isaiah where the declarations of God is.  When God’s judgments are on you the nations “shall beat their swords into plowshares” and the unrighteous “will learn righteousness.”  That’s what will happen.

      v. 23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in…Well why would they not stay grafted in in unbelief?  Because they are going to be judged and when you are judged you learn righteousness

      v. 23 … for God is able to graft them in again. Now there it is.  You have just read where God blinded a whole nations and they were cut off and they died in there sins and He says I can bring them back and graft them in.  Who you going to believe?  The Scriptures or these filthy minded heretics.  You can die in your sins and you can be brought back to life from the dead and you can be grafted in, you just read it.  God is able!

      v. 24  For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? So the Gentiles can be grafted on and the Israelites can be grafted back in.

      v. 25  For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery…The whole church is ignorant of this mystery.  Even if they read it, even if the people are sitting down in the afternoon after church, reading this Scripture, they won’t see it, they won’t get it.  Their ears can’t contain it, their eyes won’t perceive it.

      v. 25 …lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL (it’s like that little word ‘if,’ if means something else to follow.  “Until” something else has to follow, until what?…) until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

      v. 26  And so ALL Israel shall be saved...There it is!

      v. 26 …as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: That’s judgment.

      v. 27  For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Remember when we read though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as wool, (Isa. 1:18)

      v. 28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

      v. 29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. That means that whatever He says, whatever will be good gifts, it will happen, it will be done.  “I will do all my pleasure… I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass” (Isa. 46:10 -11)  “So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void” (Isa. 55:11) so it’s going to be done, “declaring the end from the beginning” (Isa. 46:10) therefore it has to be.

      v. 30  For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: We read in Psalms 136 that in every single verse in the whole chapter ends in, For His mercy endures forever… For His mercy endures forever… For His mercy endures forever… For His mercy endures forever… etc.  There is not a Christian theologian on earth that believes that.  It is repeated over and over and over in every single verse of the whole chapter and there is not a orthodox theologian on earth that believes that His mercy endures forever.  If you die in your sins, they say, ‘mercy is over.’   Well what about endures forever?  They say, ‘forget it, it‘s just talk, it’s just a song.’

      v. 31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through Your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

      v. 32  For God has concluded them ALL in unbelief…Who is the all?  All of the Jews, all of the Israelites, all of the Gentiles, ALL.  He has concluded all in unbelief to what end?… 

      v. 32 …that He might have mercy upon ALL. Then we have this great section here of four verses.

      v. 33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!

      v. 34  For who has known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counselor?

      v. 35  Or who has first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto Him again?

      v. 36  For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen. I hope that I made that intense enough so that you will understand how utterly corrupt and evil and vile and despicable these teaching are and it is in the whole church.  The whole church has swallowed all of this pagan filth.  It’s a marvelous thing and it takes a miracle, a miracle to be that stubborn to the word of God.  It takes an absolute miracle.

      Carrie, no miracles are being done in you, otherwise you would not contradict the Word of God every time you post. you would not claim you have a free will independent of God, you would not claim people go to heaven and hell. You do not have God's truth Carrie. you have man-made inventions called religion. You parrot what you have been taught instead of actually studying and showing yourself approved. You complain about the burdens and the length of content. Why? Because you don't like to study. You like to claim you studied but you just copy what you have already been taught. Tsk Tsk Carrie. Jesus spits out those who are lukewarm and call Him Lord but do not do the things which He asks. You are a worker of iniquity Carrie.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Jews have lived and died by the millions before Jesus and after Jesus and they were not saved.  The were in fact as a nation “cast away.”  What is their final destiny?

      Destruction?  Annihilation?  Eternal torment?  Is death the doom that seals men’s fate?  For all dead in sin, is it TOO LATE?

      Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

      v. 2  God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew…When did He “foreknew” that?  From the beginning! 

      Well what did He declare from the beginning?  The end!  Well now we are going to come to the end.  The end of what?  The end of His people that He foreknew from the beginning.  Are you following me?

      v. 2  …do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah? how he makes intercession to God against Israel, saying,

      v. 3  Lord, they have killed Your prophets, and digged down Your altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

      v. 4  But what says the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

      v. 5  Even so then (in like manner) at this present time (this was about 50-60 years AD, Paul is writing this to the Romans) also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. There was a remnant that are coming under God’s grace now, just like the seven thousand.  Not all of Israel, no.  Just a remnant just a few, maybe some thousands, we don’t know how many.  But they are going to come under God’s grace, just like that.

      v. 6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

      v. 7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election (the remnant, the group God called out) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Well who blinded them?  God did, God blinded them, they couldn’t see if they wanted to.

      Then when Christ came to teach them He could open their eyes.  But no, He says I’m going to teach them in parables.  Why?  So they will be blind, so they won’t see, so they won’t understand, so that He won’t heal them (Isa. 6:10) or save them, that’s what heal means health and life.

      So God said no I don’t want to teach them openly plainly, they might repent and then I would have to heal them and save them.  ‘Oh you mean He wanted them to die, not being saved?’  That’s right, that’s what He said.

      Well then they all went to hell?  That is the Christian theology, if you die in your sins you go to hell.  So all these people are in hell, that’s what theology says. 

      Now let’s look at what the Word of God says.

      v. 8  [According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see…Who gave them those eyes?  God! Have you ever heard a sermon in your life that taught that God takes whole nations of people and blinds them so that they can’t see spiritual truth, have you ever heard that?  No you haven’t.  Why?  They despises the Word of God, that’s why.  They loath it, every last one of them.

      v. 8 …and ears that they should not hear;] unto this day. Who did that?  God did that.

      v. 9  And David says, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them:

      v. 10  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

      v. 11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? In other words are they now total failures?  Is it all over?  Are they now in hell?  Is it too late, as they say, is it too late for them?  What does Paul say…

      v. 11 …God forbid: but rather through their fall…Did they fall?  Yes.  How long and how far did they fall?  Well we will read it and we will see it.

      v. 11 …salvation is come unto the Gentiles (that’s a good thing), for to provoke them to jealousy. Oh well that is fine, He is going to burn them in hell for all eternity and make them jealous?

      v. 12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? What is he talking about “fullness”?  They fall, they are burning in hell, it’s too late for them?

      v. 13  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

      v. 14  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

      v. 15  For if the casting away of them… “The casting away,” blinding, clouding their understanding, deceiving them so that they die in their sins.  Jesus Himself came down and preached to Israel, so that they would be blind and not repent and not be saved.

      That’s what “the casting away of them” was, blinding and deceiving, so they can’t be saved.

      Notice it…

      v. 15 …be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be…What does it mean “receiving“?  He cast them away, that’s in that direction and now He is going to “receive” them and that’s coming back, right?  You know the difference, right?  Casting away… receiving.

      Receiving them from where?

      v. 15 …but life from the dead? ‘I thought they were alive in hell suffering?’  No, Paul said they were dead and they are going to be brought back to life, they are going to be received.  It isn’t that they are going to be made alive, so that they can be tortured in hell.  They are going to be received!  You got to know what that word means, when God receives you, He’s not rejecting you anymore.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie actually despises the Word of God. If she didn't she would not be posting lies about the Holy Scriptures and saying that she has done an honest study. An honest study does not contradict the Scriptures Carrie.

      1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Carrie says this isn't trueGod commissioned Jesus Christ “TO BE” the Savior of the world. Theologians say, ‘it will never happen.’ If that is not spitting in the face of God I don’t know what is. He said I commission My Son to be Savior of the world and Christ said I have come to do My Father’s work. He said I have done My Father’s work, “it is finished” (John 19:30). And the church teaches it will never happen. Carrie says, ‘I don’t care who said it, I don’t care if God said it or if Christ said it, it will never happen.’ So imagine it, you go to this Christian fantasy of heaven and God says, ‘finally you are here, you are going to get the blessings that I told Abraham, that all the families of the earth would be blessed.

      Harry your blessing, look over here your mother, your Father, your grandmother and your great grandmother and grandfather and great grandfather, just look at them writhing in pain like bacon in a pan. Isn’t it wonderful. How do you feel? Isn’t it good to be in heaven. It’s good to be in the kingdom of God, isn’t it. Don’t you feel blessed? Carrie says yes it's great to be in heaven while my other loved ones suffer in a fictional hell

      It’s evil! Words can not describe the evil of this doctrine of the Christian church. It is evil beyond human comprehension. Carrie says, ‘even those who are saved or saved by their own free will.’ Carrie doesn’t even give God total credit for being saved, because she has done it by her own free will. But then most of the people on the planet are not going to make it, they are going to burn in hell for all eternity according to Carrie and her church.Oh I know that there is a couple of denominations that say they don’t really believe in literal fire. But they say we are just going to be separated and miserable, in pain and suffering in mental and emotional anguish for all eternity, that’s all. That’s all? Oh okay, well that’s not so bad, is it?? Wow this is just amazing stuff, you can’t make this up. Who would think that the church of Jesus Christ would be teaching the world for two thousand years that God is going to torture most of their grandmothers in hell for all eternity? Who could believe such a thing? It’s over the top, it’s beyond comprehension. Isa 26:9 … when Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Judgments bring godliness and overcoming.Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches; To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. The thief on the cross will be with Jesus in this judgment/paradise.Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shall you be with Me in paradise. Carrie's "honest" study says that Christ is saying that today, right after they both die, they will be in heaven together. Your statement is not scriptural Carrie.Now let’s look what it says in the book of Revelation, we’re going to the last book. This is like end time stuff. When you get to the last chapter of the book of Revelation you’re getting close to the end. And when you get to the end of this last chapter of the last book, then you are really getting close to the end. What does it say there? Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. Who? Anybody that hears. If people go to hell and then they are deaf and they can’t hear anymore? If you can hear, here is the Word… “Come.” v. 17 ... And let him that is athirst come. Well if you are in hell like the rich man and you are thirsty and you want Lazarus to put a drop on your tongue… if you are thirsty can you come? No, you can’t come. Carrie says, ‘this verse doesn’t mean what it says, you can’t come.’ It says, “come!” Who? Whosoever. Whosoever “is athirst” let him come. v. 17 …And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Carrie teaches free will, free will, free will and now you have an opportunity to take of the water freely and carrie and her church say, ‘oops, no more free will, you only have free will when we say you do.’ Those evil and damnable teachings.So when you die in your sins, then that’s it, right? I mean that’s what the Bible says, right? I mean some where in the Bible it says if you die in your sins that you are going to burn in hell forever? There must be a verse that says that, because all the theologians of the world say that. So there must be a verse that says that, that if you die in your sins, when you die, you will go to hell. You go to hell before you are judged and you go to hell after you are judged. You just go to hell that’s all, go to hell, okay. Oh really?

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie has done NO honest study of the Holy Scriptures. If she did and if She was led by God's spirit, then she would not contradict the Scriptures every time she posts.

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      One must be judged to be saved. That is the only way anybody will repent. And all will, eventually. Was that too deep for ya?

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      wepjr 8 years ago

      Hell No, you said that your salvation is "a sure thing". What, exactly, does one need to be "saved"? Please clarify in a short paragraph. I am just trying to understand where you are coming from. You can give me just the basics if you choose or you can get a little deeper. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Agent Smith, I am a born again believer, and I assume you were and are throughout your leading into the teachings of L. Ray Smith.  I do not following the interpretations of any man, but I study thoroughly the Bible, using the original Hebrew and Greek words, cross reference other scriptures, and of course, all by the leading of the Holy Spirit in me.  I'm not saying I'm absolutely right about everything, but I can say with confidence that I've done my homework and do not subject myself to the guidance of anyone or anything that blatantly goes against what I study.

      Even I have published a hub about the Identity of Lucifer that was not taught by traditional "Christian" churches.  Many many cults (and that is the English word) call themselves Christian and it is appauling.

      I don't follow doctrines of any particular church (as is my political view as well), but I do follow the teachings of the prophets of old, Jesus Christ my Lord and the apostles.  No if's and's or but's.

      I'm not here to boast about what I know or to dispute and argue with this group.  My heart is truly concerned for them.  Those who are saved are merely in error which will be revealed.  Those who feel they are not yet saved or will be saved after death are the ones I am most protective of.  I truly care and have love in my heart.

      My goal is to do my best and fight the good fight until He comes again!  AMEN.

    • profile image

      Agent Smith 8 years ago


      Is it possible that you could be deceived? I'm not asking if you think you are deceived. I'm asking if it's possible.

      The JWs all think they know the only truth. The Mormons think they know the only truth. I could name many others who think they have the only truth and many of them use scripture to prove it.

      Deceived people don't know they are deceived. That is the whole meaning of deception.

      Matthew 24:23-25 (New International Version)

      23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

      I was once in the very place you are Carrie and it dawned on me that I could be one of the deceived. I didn't believe it for a minute, but I started praying and asking God to show me the truth if I was possibly deceived. To my great surprise I WAS DECEIVED. I couldn't believe it. God started showing me the truth way before I found others who believed the same as I do.

      If you can do nothing else right now at least pray that God show you the truth if you are possibly deceived. He is the only one who has the power to protect us from deception and open our eyes.

      2 Peter 1:19-21 (New International Version)

      19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

      Is it possible for the many to be wrong and the few have found truth through God opening their eyes.

      Matthew 7:13-15 (New International Version)The Narrow and Wide Gates 13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. A Tree and Its Fruit 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      The twelve tribes are symbolic of the elect. Why do you quote scriptures that deny free will when you believe we have a free will? Better yet, don't bother answering.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      One more message for you and yours, my friend:

      John 15:16 John is quoting Jesus saying, "Ye have NOT CHOSEN me, but I have CHOSEN you, and ORDAINED you" IN CONTEXT, you MUST read the exact quote of Jesus in John 6:70 (which is before John 15) and I quote, "Jesus answered them, 'Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?' Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him."  Having twelve apostles was a must, so Judas was replaced by Matthius in Acts 1:12-26.

      Please know that the CHOSEN of God are of the twelve TRIBES of Israel shown in Revelation 7:5-8 as follows: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. I would recommend reading my hub, "Who Are God's ELECT".

      In His genuine love ~ Carrie

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I challenge you to read my hub, "Who are God's Elect", and "Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church". If you're not ready for meat, then don't read.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Nobody's found salvation yet. There hasn't been a resurection of the saints. And knowing the truths of God doesn't automatically take away one's sinful nature. Being given the spiritual fruits will change a person while they are led to these truths. But knowing the milk of the word with a little meat is only the beginning. You can't even chew on milk yet. That's because babylon is feeding you sour milk and you drink it down with a smile. But we are not deceived by the rank cheese forming at sides of your baby sour milk sippy cup. Your milk's lumpy. . . .and hard. . . . . .unchewable. Got it?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Well, if you didn't find salvation, your truth is not guided by the Holy Spirit.  The whole purpose of the Word of God is that we find the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, which is JESUS CHRIST, who saved the day He died on the cross (the thief) and has been saving souls ever since.  You don't know when you'll be saved?

      If you are not saved, you cannot have the Holy Spirit or the fruit & gifts OR Leading Into All Truth! Behold, He stands at the door of your heart and knocks. If you hear His voice, open the door and He will come in and dine with you and you with Him. It's FREE and you just have to open the GIFT, Hell-No.


    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Modest, are we? Let me just say that my salvation is a sure thing. It's all a matter of when. I begged for the truth almost four years ago. That same night I found it. But I can smell the aroma of blind deception from your posts. So I think it's time you ask for truth.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I already claim salvation, but have yet to "read" you state that you claim it as well. All the doctrines of men divide, but the doctrine of Jesus Christ and salvation are the ONLY thing that matters! AMEN.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      So what r u waiting for?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I told you why; I am burdened for you and I don't do my own will, but the will of the Father.  The swine themselves were not guilty, but the spirits sent into them were.  There is one unforgivable sin, Hell-No and it is defined in Mark 3:29-30 "but whoseover blasphemes against the Holy spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an [eternal, yes eternal] sin'-because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."  I never said you stated you wished you had the Spirit of Christ, but rather a gift or gifts of the Spirit of Christ.  Just so we're clear on that. If you want the understanding which comes only from the Spirit of God, the Word says to "ask for it!" (Luke 11:13).  Again, TODAY is the Day of Salvation, Hell-No.  God loves you!

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Well Carrie, they're doing a pretty good job at rubbing your nose in the sand that you've built your spiritual house on. They are showing how little you really know the scriptures, and it's blatently obvious that you are clueless as to what is implied by spiritual things. But on to what you just falsely quoted from me. I never said that I wish that I had a spirit of Christ. What I was implying and actually said concerning this spirit, "I wish I had it". That means the whole thing. In other words, having complete understanding (or at least 80% of it) of the word of God. Perhaps even you in your carnal miss applications of scripture, have a spirit of Christ. But I guarentee you, it aint much. You believe that the savior is jesus and he died on a cross for some people. You have no idea what the scriptures are and what they are for. The scriptures are instructions for the elect. All will be judged by the scriptures but only those given the fruits of the spirit will understand them. I am very carefull to remain modest in stating my spiritual gifts but you are so delusional that you fail to realize that you are just parroting most of the false doctrines of institutionalized churchianity. And you claim that you have the real spiritual gifts? Get ready to be smacked up side the head by God. Because you are way off. And I thought you said that you didn't want to cast your "pearls" (snicker) at us swine. So why can't you leave? You are a different animal of hypocrassy. Let's just call you a "hippocritamus".

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      First of all, imagine you're talking to a mirror, JL. Just a question to all of you: Do you consider yourselves the Elect?  I challenge you to read my hub "Who are God's Elect", then answer that question.  Do you call yourselves saved?  Or are you still waiting for God to save you?  I would appreciate answers to the above two questions. Yes or No will do just fine.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, I could write and write and write.  God has blessed me with the love of writing and the love of research.  Those are two of my favorite things.  But why waste my time?  If God wills for me to write a thousand page rebuttals to your claims of following man-made pagan traditions, then so be it but if it is not his intention for me to continue, then I accept that as well.  Frankly, your claims are tiring because you are SO spiritually blinded that you eat away at the energy of others because it’s like talking to a spoiled child who has no understanding of what her parents expect of her. 

      You make excuses to continue to practice pagan traditions.  You hold on to them dearly and think the Scriptures advocate your behavior and those that follow similarly.  You are wrong.  You are so wrong on so many levels and your insults saying you now know we are followers of Armstong and others who are disgusting characters show your true nature.  You make-up lies and call yourself a Christian.  You lie because you can’t fight the truth in our statements which reflect true honest scholarship of the Holy Scriptures, so you must distract others from that fact and make up stories about us personally and the truth that God has granted us the eyes and ears to see and hear and understand.

      You lie and call us a cult and say we can’t rely on God’s word but must copy others work.  We rejoice in such persecutions.

      You lie in an effort to take away attention from the fact that your presentations are not truthful/honest study of our Holy Scriptures.  Yet you call yourself a Christian. We rejoice again in such persecutions.

      Revelation 21:8 that, " ... all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."  Yet, you and those like you who claim to know and love God, routinely tell lies as if you are exempt from the above penalty recorded by the Apostle John.  Again, you call yourself a Christian?  Do you see the problem with your behavior and statements? You claim to have the Spirit of Christ in you but you lie consistently when attempting to refute truthful study of the Holy Scriptures.  I think it is pretty self evident whose spirit you do have.

      Fear not, you have company.  There are multitudes of religions and other so called Christians who claim to have God’s spirit but routinely lie, cheat and steal and show God’s true Elect that they do not have a love for God’s truths but they do love their carnal heart. Their carnal nature refuses to hear god's truths, they despise God's word and hate being told that their behavior is UNGodly.

      you can't even understand that everything written in the holy Scriptures is true, but most is not literally true.

      The fact is there are many many truths in the Bible that are not literally true. That wonderful bit of knowledge is beyond your comprehension.

      Jesus said that the words that he spoke were SPIRIT (John 6:63). Jesus Christ changes not. His words are STILL spirit and they certainly were spirit when John wrote the words of Christ regarding His unveiling or revelation. Just as we physically feed on physical bread for PHYSICAL LIFE, thus also we spiritually feed on Jesus Christ’s spiritual body for SPIRITUAL LIFE.

      Christ told us that there will be those who hear but understand NOT.

      You think that by accepting the Scriptures as they are given (in the case of Revelation that means AS SYMBOLS), that somehow this "spiritualizes away" the teaching. What?

      It is the "spiritual" aspect of these symbols that IS THE REAL THING; THE REAL UNDERSTANDING!

      Physical things "pass away" whereas spiritual things are eternal! The very FACT that the book of Revelations for example, is written in "symbols" is proof positive that the understanding of them is SPIRITUAL and not physical or literal. Yet you continue to promote a belief in physical manifestations such as tongue speaking, water baptism and I can bet you also promote actual physical circumcision as a way to show that someone is a member of God's people/Israel.

      Plain and simple, you are not mature in the knowledge that is Jesus Christ. Anyone else who believes the same as you and follows the belief of practicing physical rituals as a way of worshiping God is also likewise not mature in Christ. If that makes you mad, then take it up with God as it is His words that condemn you. Not mine. you make-up your own god to serve your own desires and traditions. you have no faith in the true God the Father and Creator. You have no true faith in Jesus Christ who died for the sins of ALL mankind. You try to put limitations on both God and Christ... how utterly silly of you.

      your trinity doctrine is also unscriptural and False.

      Hastings Dictionary of the Bible can help us.

      Page 1015: TRINITY--The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons and one Substance IS NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC or SCRIPTURAL PROOF..." (Emphasis mine).

      When will you understand that you cannot fight god's word. your trinity theory is a false doctrine and blasphemy to God. Yet you call yourself a christian? you claim to have the spirit of Christ in you? Where? There is NO trinity. there is no secret rapture. These have been consistently proven to be FALSE doctrines made up by rouge people with NO understanding of God and Christ. the reason why they are popular is because people like to make up stories and promote them as truths. Satan truly is good at his job of deceiving people and transforming himself like an angel of light. you don't even understand what that means. It means the devil tricks people by being disguised as something godly when actually it is UNGODLY, like your trinity doctrine and tongue speaking, etc.

      Wake up.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      To better understand this meaning, cross reference as follows:

      John 9:39 = John 3:17-20; John 5:22-24

      John 9:41 = John 15:22-27

      This is GOOD - using the Bible instead of pre-printed answers from any doctrinal material outside that of the Word!

    • profile image

      t rafeiro 8 years ago

      John 9 :39,40,41

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I'm so sorry you feel that people must first be physically blinded in order to see. What makes you feel any less important than Saul was to Jesus? You were so important, Jesus died for you! If He didn't need to die until after the tribulation and if indeed purification by spiritual fire saves, it makes His crucifiction of no value. Don't you see? Hopefully, like with Saul, someone will restore your sight.

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      t rafeiro 8 years ago

      and Saul yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the lord,went unto the high preist.And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues that if he found any of this way ,whether they were men or women he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.And as he journeyed,he came near Damascus and suddenly round about there shined him a light from heaven.And he fell to the earth and heard a voice saying unto him Saul Saul why persecutest thou me?And he said Who art thou Lord ?And the Lord said.I am Jesus whom thou persecutest it is hard to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said Lord what wilt thou have me do?And the Lord said unto him Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do.i dont think Paul had much of a choice here .

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      At least you are a man of few words to make your opinion heard. I do respect you for that. Salvation is for you TODAY. If you will only HEAR the Word, then receive FAITH which comes by HEARING, then by His grace are you SAVED through FAITH! (Eph 2:8), not of works nor trial of works (Eph 2:9)! I am not going to give up on this group because God is not going to give up on you. You all are truly seeking and willing to fight for what you believe, just as Saul who killed Christians! He became Paul after he got saved on the road to Damascus, having a list of names of the Christians he was to kill! Indeed, forgiveness is GREAT, and Paul wrote 2/3 of the New Testament! Praise God, SALVATION IS FOR TODAY and it is available to ALL who will believe! AMEN.

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      t rafeiro  8 years ago

      of course you will Carrie,please forgive me .

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      If you read my hub, "Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church", you'll know that I won't be here, but will be with saints that return with Christ on the true white horse, and know the victory is OURS. AMEN.

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      t rafeiro  8 years ago

      that,s right Carrie ,at judgement every one will receive and every knee shall bow even YOU God bless

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Jesus spoke these words in a prophetic nature about the "Great Tribulation", the Last Day of the Lord, in context (Matthew 10 and 24). There will be people saved during this time and must endure a great deal of persecution, even death. Endurance is not what SAVES us, but the belief in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior since the very moment he died on the cross. Salvation is for ALL who will receive HIM, to him gave He the right to become children of God, even to those who believe on His name (John 1:12).

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      t rafeiro 8 years ago

      those who endure to the end shall be saved

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I think you are insinuating that I do not have the Holy Spirit of God in me? Of course, you would say that. It's no surprise I felt moved this morning to write a hub about BAPTISM: Water and Spirit. I indeed have the Spirit of the Lord in me and the fruit and gifts are evidence of this. Hell-No even said he wished he had a gift of the Spirit? You guys are missing out on a lot of promises that are available to those who ARE saved. You claim you are, now show me some evidence based on the fruit and the gifts, please. Thank you.

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      You call us long winded? You just don’t like being overwhelmed with truthful scripture from honest scholars. You only know a few scriptures and can’t handle being presented with truths about Scriptures you don’t have a clue about. You have done no honest study Carrie and that is plainly obvious! You can get mad all you want. You don’t know your Scriptures Carrie. If you did, we would not be having this conversation. You refuse to believe God and His promises.

      In John 16:4 we read

      "But these things have I told you, that WHEN THE TIME SHALL COME, ye may remember that I told you of them."

      Verses 12-15,

      "I have yet MANY THINGS to say unto you, but ye CANNOT bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for He shall not speak of Himself [Jesus IS this Spirit of Truth]; but whatsoever He shall hear [from His Father], that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you."

      Carrie, it is clear to everyone that you cannot bear Christ’s truths now. The only way you can ever understand these deep symbolic mysteries of God is to have the spirit of Christ in you.

      "But God has revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searches ALL things, yea, the DEEP things of God"

      (I Cor. 2:10)

      "But we have the MIND of Christ" (Verse 16).

      Proverbs 25:2 – “It is the glory of God to CONCEAL a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH OUT a matter."

      These evil and unscriptural doctrines you have presented and argued in favor of are idols in the hearts of millions of people Christian and non-christian! And until they repent and get rid of these "idols of the heart" (Ezek. 14:4), they cannot be Christ’s disciples or apostles.

      They may say that they are "apostles," but they are not. The very church of God where Jesus Christ "walks" in their midst and "holds the seven angels of the seven churches in His hand," nonetheless, has in its midst, "…them which say they are apostles, and ARE NOT … but LIARS." They say that they are circumcised in heart Jews, but they are NOT,

      "I know the BLASPHEMY of them which say they are [circumcised in heart] Jews, and are NOT, but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN." (Rev. 2:1, 2, 9).

      Is that strong enough for you? While I’m at it, let me give you a little more, seeing how paramount this knowledge is to our understanding of God’s plan.

      It is God Who has created this universe as we see it. God has determined the best path in bringing about His purpose. Sharks, weeds, spiders, and poison mushrooms are all part of God’s master plan. As are hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, droughts, earthquakes, and disease. We may not always understand it, but we cannot deny its existence.

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie you claimed in another post of yours that you were burdened w/God's Spirit. Carrie, you can't be burdened with something that God has stated and proved you don't have.

      Now let me speak slowly so you can understand... IF YOU  DO  NOT  HAVE  THE MIND  OF  CHRIST IN YOU, THEN YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND.

      "For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, ARE CALLED" (I Cor. 1:26).

      Christ is speaking directly to his Disciples.  THEIR CALLING Carrie.  Christ’s disciples have a calling.  That calling includes understanding Christ’s words of spirit.  Do you understand that truth Carrie?  It’s not debatable.

      Carrie, it is you who do not even know the Scriptures that you quote.  It’s like a 2nd grader trying to educate a person on microbiology.  You are a child.  You need to put away childish things.

      Christ’s words are NOT for the MANY (2 million "Christians" and counting) and since we are on the topic of Christian, calling yourself a Christian comes with some responsibility, mainly rightly dividing the Word of God properly.  I have yet to see you rightly dividing God’s Word.  If you contradict ANY Scripture you are deceived.  EVERY Scripture we have presented to you is HARMONIOUS throughout the entire Holy Scriptures.  Do you know what harmonious means Carrie?  It means NO Scripture contradicts another.  Can you even comprehend that?  Can you comprehend that God wills that ALL men as saved.  God’s will is always done, Christ is the savior of the world, therefore ALL will be saved.

      Do you understand that first comes the physical and then the spiritual?  Do you understand that you must experience the physical first in order to understand the spiritual?  Do you understand that God wants sons and daughters?  He has given us an experience of evil in which to humble us by.  God has not just created mankind in His image; God is CREATING mankind in His image.  It’s a continual process that is ongoing from Adam to when Christ returns.  God gives us examples.  You can not appreciate good unless you experience evil.  You cannot understand light unless you experience darkness.  Everything is in contrast.  There is a reason why the Tree of life contained a knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL.  It was necessary to build Godly character. 

      You call us of the devil because you’re frustrated that you can’t understand.   You try to say we are followers of false prophets when it is YOU who is following false doctrines. 

      By the way, the idea of an "inerrant" or flawless translation is not even possible. It just isn’t possible to translate one language into another language PERFECTLY. It cannot humanly be done! There are many words, idioms, and colloquial sayings in many languages that simply HAVE NO EXACT EQUIVALENT in other languages. But that’s okay. It is possible to understand God’s Word even with these difficulties, differences, and imperfect translations. That is because the real understanding is in the SPIRIT and not in the LETTER. Certainly God uses both, but the emphasis is on the former and not the latter.

      God knows that understanding His Word is not a casual task that can be accomplished without great effort. Paul told Timothy to "STUDY," rather than just casually read the Scriptures. Even with the aid of God Spirit, we must study, God does not miraculously cause His saints to memorize and understand all Scripture.

      Do you really think that your casual study of the Scriptures helps you?  You claim the bible is inerrant!  It’s impossible and it’s been proven countless times that the KJV is FULL of errors! 

      There have been over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND changes in the King James Bible. Most of them are relatively minor changes such as spelling, grammar, etc. Nonetheless, I think all should agree that any translation requiring a hundred thousand corrections hardly could be called perfect and inerrant. In the front of my 1611 Edition of the King James there is an eleven-page dissertation entitled: "THE TRANSLATORS To The Reader."   And in it the translators freely confess their inability to translate the Scriptures flawlessly.

      Many modern English translations are dropping the word "hell," more and more from their translations. Why? Because it should have never been used in the first place, and HONEST SCHOLARS are beginning to see that clearly.

      Those who claim that the KJV is inerrant are not aware of the fact that one edition of the King James left out the word "not" in the seventh commandment. There were, in fact, three different corrections and revisions of the KJV in its very first year of publication.  And there are still obvious errors remaining in the KJV after four hundred years of corrections, revisions, and editing.

      How many times do you have to be shown that you err before you realize we have presented you with the TRUTH!

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Listen to Jesus (with your SPIRIT):

      "WHY do ye [all of us] NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD. Ye are of your father THE DEVIL … He that is of God HEARS God’s words [words of SPIRIT, WITH HIS SPIRIT]: ye therefore hear them not, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF GOD" (John 8:43-44 & 47).

      "But the natural [soulish] man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned" (I Cor. 2:14).

      Interpreting ancient symbols in a book written in ancient Hebrew and Greek." I know, it sounds foolish to the carnal mind. That God should die on a wooden cross might also sound foolish, but nonetheless:

      "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish FOOLISHNESS; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God … For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew NOT God, it PLEASED God by the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to SAVE them that believe" (I Cor. 18 & 21).

      It’s just God’s way. And it is a grand way.  God is speaking to you Carrie.  In the wisdom of God, the world knew not God.  You don’t know God Carrie.  The doctrines you preach are lies and God says so.

      Carrie, Christ tells us that those who do not hear His words.. THEY are the ones who are of the Devil.  He that hears God’s words/spirit are of God.  You are NOT of God is you can’t understand His truths.

      Carrie, no one hates Christians as you try to claim.  These Christian or otherwise churches that personify in symbol all of God’s church for the past two thousand years, are in fact, the training ground and the proving ground for The Elect. Coming out of this carnal system puts one among the called and the chosen and the VERY elect. Paul called it "the HIGH CALLING."

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Being proud of your root or church is not insinuation the "sin of pride", but rather that of "boasting in the LORD"! Regardless of having a church denominational name or not, you are a dividing and anti-Christain doctrine and we know of whom the ROOT is; it's NOT that of the Tree of Life.

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      babylon_is_fallen 8 years ago

      Carrie: "You should proudly state the name of your roots, or the name of your universalist church and who its founder is. None of us are hiding or ashamed!"


      There's no pride here... only humility and servtitude toward God.

      We are not 'universalist', nor are we a part of any 'denomination'.

      Our Founder is JESUS CHRIST, the Son of the Living God, and "Savior of the World"--that's a quote from the Bible, not my own doctrine.

      II Corinthians 4:4 In whom, the god of this age, hath BLINDED the minds of the UNBELIEVING, to the end they MAY NOT DISCERN the radiance of the glad-message of the glory of the Christ—who is the image of God.

      Why don't many people "believe", because they "choose" not to?

      No, because they are "blinded"--that's why! If you are "blind" you CANNOT SEE [Period]!!!

      Simple enough?????

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      JL, you are claiming "And here you are promoting physical, earthly rituals."  I have not stated anything about earthly rituals.  The baptism into Christ is not of water!  Don't call me a works-related believer stuck in the traditions of men.  And as far as the Bible being literal or spiritual, you claim I am the one taking it "literally" in every case?  Who is taking the literal words "WORLD" and "ALL" and making them into an entire doctrine?

      "All those who believe will be saved" means "All those who BELIEVE!"  There's no if's, and's or but's about it.  You guys will take this and say ALL will be SAVED (you leave out "who believe").

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      This is addressed to Truth Only:

      You stated, "I should know, as I used to teach and preach before God pulled my head out of the sand and had me to consider His word on my own, rather than the doctrines of man I had known."

      Hebrews 6:4-6 "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."

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      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Like the majority of people who listen to your babble; that's what it is, BABBLE. You guys are LONG WINDED and can't just answer a simple question and leave it at that. People shouldn't have to research and "guess" as to what root of denomination you guys come from. You should proudly state the name of your roots, or the name of your universalist church and who its founder is. None of us are hiding or ashamed!

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      babylon_is_fallen 8 years ago

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      babylon_is_fallen 8 years ago

      Oh Carrie,

      First, I've never even heard of this "Armstrong" guy until I read your post. He sounds like a dillusional moron.

      Second, My purpose is NOT to "destroy Christians". My purpose is to lead them BACK to "their first love"--Jesus Christ, the "Savior of the world", and His Father--GOD. My purpose is to RELEASE people from the bonds of man-made CORRUPTED Religion--of course, I myself cannot do this--only God can! I am simply a Messenger.

      Say, did you ever notice that during His ministry, Jesus Christ NEVER once rebuked a 'murderer' or a 'thief' or an 'adultress'? Does that mean that He approved of their actions? No, but Jesus also knew the REAL ISSUES with society--the Corrupted leaders of the Church of God, in Jerusalem. Thus, whenever Jesus spoke out in anger and disapproval, it was always toward the Pharisees, the Scribes, the Sadduccees, the Priests, even the High Priest himself!

      And who was it that had Jesus arrested and then killed? Who was it that motivated the crowd to cry out "crucify him! crucify him!"?

      That's right! The LEADERS OF GOD'S CHURCH, THAT'S WHO!


      Third, you say we are followers of Satan??? YOU BETTER CHOOSE YOUR WORDS MORE WISELY NEXT TIME!!

      I read GOD'S WORD, and I praise and worship Jesus Christ and His Father.

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      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Once again, Carrie speaks about things she knows nothing about. Someone probably told Carrie that what we were telling her sounded like Armstrong, so Carrie deduced with that simple brain of her's that we must be followers of Armstrong. Clearly this is a lie. Possibly Carrie tried to search for anything she could find to try and prove to others that we are false so she took a false prophet and tried to link us to him as a way to discredit us and the truth of Christ. She fails once again to realize that we know all is of God and all works according to the counsel of His will. Thy Will be Done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

      When a "christian" is shown the truth, the beast that resides in them resists and hates the truth!

      The beast will lie and cheat and do anything to not have to accept the truth of God's Word. We know because we all had to experience the same thing in order to come to an accurate understanding of God's Word. It is a process Carrie... not one that requires being dunked in water in front of an audience. Your physical rituals are of no use to God.

      Carrie what was it that you said about being of your father, the devil who abode not in the truth? It appears that you spend a great deal of time not abiding in the truth but reveling in lies and deceit. It's a shame that you don't see God in all this. You see your own free will. You think all that you have obtained is by your own hands.

      You don't give any credit to God because you think God is powerless and that Satan has challenged God and He is or at some time was unable to control the devil.

      You speak as a fool.

      "Now what have you which you did not OBTAIN? Now if you OBTAINED it also [from GOD] why are you boasting as though [you are] not obtaining [it from God]?" (I Cor. 4:7 Concordant Literal New Testament).

      I think "Christians" as Carrie likes to call herself and others like her are more than capable of destroying themselves with their false doctrines.  The fact that Carrie defends a man-made religion in the flesh, along with all her other physical rituals of the flesh, clearly show to those with the mind of Christ, that she does not have the spirit of Christ in her.

      You can't serve two masters is something Carrie likes to say.  Yet, she doesn't realize who those two masters are.  She thinks it's God and Satan.  No, Carrie, it's you can't serve materialism/physical lusts of the heart and serve Christ in the spirit as we are commanded to do.  Assembly in the spirit, not a building, the words Christ spoke were spirit, spirit spirit spirit... not physical physical physical.  Since god created language to begin with, Carrie doesn't think that God is able or even capable of using foreshadowing or irony or symbolism in His Word thru the hands of Christ's disciples.

      Carrie is stuck serving her god of the physical world.  We are told who has been given dominion of this world for a time and we know that the devil tried to offer his kingdoms on earth to Christ.  you can't offer what has not been given to you Carrie and God tells us that the nations have been given to the devil.  And her you are promoting physical, earthly rituals.  I think it's more than clear to those who have an ear to hear who we serve in the spirit.  God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

      Your insults don't bother us.  You can keep saying we are of the devil if that makes you feel better about yourself.  I understand that a person with your background who has not learned to forgive and who has so much hate in their heart for what they have experienced in their young years, has to believe in a god who will torture people who you deem unacceptable.  In order for you to feel good about yourself, you have to believe in a god who favors you and curses those not like you.  Fortunately for all of us, the true God & Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ is nothing like what you have created.  For those who have been called to have the eyes and ears, we have His Word and promise.  It is indeed the Good News for a reason, a reason that you and 2 million other anti-christs are unable to understand.  Ye, Carrie you are an anti-christ.  We all have the spirit of the beast in us.  You can not come to an accurate knowledge of our Lord until you recognize this truth and your house upon the sand falls and the beast rises up.  You will NEVER understand God's truths until this happens.  Sure you can claim you do, I'm sure that makes you feel good but your claim is false and the Scriptures testify to this fact.

      One minute you speak of behaving like kindergardeners, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" yet you can't even follow your own admonishments.  Do you think Christ spoke in low hushed voices?  Do you think Christ said don't say anything at all if you can't say anything nice?  NO.  Christ upbraided the scribes and pharisees of His day.  Christ called them vipers and snakes and hypocrites because they spoke of the laws much in the same manner that you do.  Christ said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matt. 5:17.  Jesus fulfilled the LAW and now there is a NEW Covenant.  The new Covenant is spiritual NOT physical Carrie.

      You consistently claim incorrectly that Christ is NOT the Savior of All men even though God himself states that it is His Will that all Men are saved.   that NONE perish and God's Will is always done, so None will perish, ALL will be saved.  I know that makes you mad because you haven't learned to forgive those that hurt you as a child but maybe if you did, God might open your eyes and ears to His truths instead of having you sound like a parrot repeating false doctrines of the churches.

      Yet another Scripture that speaks of ALL.

      "Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).

      Every man Carrie.  Do you think people go to heaven or hell without being judged?  That they go to each place and then on judgment day they are pulled from their cozy comfortable paradise and THEN judged?  Or they are pulled from the fiery pits of hell and THEN judged?  No one has ascended to heaven except for the Son of God who came down from Heaven.  Do you not understand this?  Clearly you don't take the Word of God seriously.

      No one said it's a easy road.  You must repent but it is God that calls those He wishes to call to repent.  you can't repent of your own free will because you have none.  You refuse to accept the Scriptures which God himself states that you/I/all do NOT direct our own steps.  God directs each man's steps.  God chooses us, we CANNOT Choose Him.  You refuse to believe these truths.  God has hardened your heart for a time, like He did Pharaoh's.  He doesn't change and operates in the very same way He always has.

      Doesn't it feel wonderful to know that God is in control of ALL things at ALL times?  Isn't it wonderful to know the truth that Satan is always under God's thumb, to be used by God to test mankind as God see's fit?!  Isn't it wonderful to know that Jesus Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind!  That Christ is the Savior of the Entire World! Because God loves each and every one of us and is a respecter of NO ONE.  God's will is that none perish!  None will Thank God!

      ALL will claim with their tongue that Christ is LORD.  ALL Carrie, no just some.  ALL.  EVERY knee Carrie, not just some knees will bend and praise Christ!  EVERY knee Carrie, even yours!

      "For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

      "And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead... and the dead were JUDGED... according to their WORKS... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).

      You can lie and say we are of the devil.  you can lie and say we are followers of some false prophet and make up whatever name you choose... it doesn't matter to us.  We know that God is in control of all things and all things work in accord with His Counsel.  WE WANT to be tried in this lifetime.  We don't think it strange to

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      Truth Only 8 years ago


      You are dilusional and you like to dodge scripture. I don't have anything to do with Armstrong and think he was a disgusting individual. I also think you don't have a clue about scripture, you do not respond to any scripture you have been given directly. You only respond with the man-made doctrine you have learned, and you have not really learned it all that well. I should know, as I used to teach and preach before God pulled my head out of the sand and had me to consider His word on my own, rather than the doctrines of man I had known.

      I also noticed you pulled your hubpage about the sounds recorded in hell. What the matter? Did you find out your preacher was misguided on that? Wonder what else he is wrong about? You should really wake up.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Remember, you don't HAVE to approve my comments, Hell-No.  I don't stay away, but am very involved against your movement.  I've come to find out you guys are actually of Armstrongism and is it any miracle that I first read Armstrong's book first, stating that he and Armstrong are God's two final witnesses?  Why isn't Armstrong still alive if he's to be killed by the antichrist, left in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days and raised from the dead before our eyes?  You guys are following Satan himself and seem to be proud of your mission to destroy Christians.

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      Hell N0 8 years ago

      It took Carrie a whole seven hours to return. Told ya she couldn't stay away.

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      babylon_is_fallen 8 years ago


      Way to dodge my comments...

      Actually, I'd prefer you come over to my hubs, where I expose and destroy your "damnable heresies" along with every other "false prophet", and shed some GODLY LIGHT on the Evil Darkness that lurks inside the Hallowed Halls of Christendom.

      Rev 18:2  And he called out with a mighty voice, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! It has become a dwelling place of demons, a haunt of every foul spirit, a haunt of every foul and hateful bird;

      Rev 18:10  they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come."

      Rev 18:21  Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more;


      2Co 11:12  And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.

      2Co 11:13  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

      2Co 11:14  And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

      2Co 11:15  So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

      2Co 11:16  I repeat, let no one think me foolish; but even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little.



    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 8 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      God is GREAT!

      Why would anyone want to read unscriptural doctrines when they can be blessed from reading God's truths right here.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      I'm sorry, but Hell-No has asked that I not comment on his hubs anymore. Please feel free to read mine, as I address most of these main issues. God be with us all. AMEN.

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      babylon_is_fallen 8 years ago

      Carrie: "And as far as God being the One to make the choice of salvation for us, how can one be saved through judgment or fire?"

      I Corinthians 3:12  Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- 

      1Co 3:13  each one's WORK will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be REVEALED BY FIRE, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 

      1Co 3:14  If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 

      1Co 3:15  If anyone's WORK is BURNED up, he will suffer loss, though he himself WILL BE SAVED, but ONLY as THROUGH FIRE.


      Carrie, in order to answer your question, you first need Spiritual Knowledge. God's Word is NOT a Literal book.. IT'S A SPIRITUAL BOOK. The "fire" is not a literal fire, but a SPIRITUAL FIRE.


      John 4:24 God IS Spirit


      Heb 12:29  for our God IS a consuming FIRE


      You have much to learn. But ONLY when God is ready, will He show it to you. 

      Matthew 13:10 And, approaching, the disciples say to Him, "Wherefore art Thou speaking in parables to them?

      11 Now, answering, He said to them that "To you has it been GIVEN to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of the heavens, yet to THOSE it has NOT been given.


      It never ceases to amaze me whenever a Christian says they "chose" by there own free will to come to Christ, then I ask them the question,

      "Okay, Why did you accept Christ as your LORD?"

      And their response, "Oh, because I didn't wanna go to Hell!"

      ME: "Wait, what? What happened to your free will? I thought you chose freely?

      Christian: "Well, yeah I did."

      Me: "You mean to tell me that the FEAR you felt when you heard the terrifying threats of being a living barbecue for all eternity, had NOTHING to do with your choice? Perhaps, that FEAR you felt CAUSED you to come to Christ?"

      Silly Christian, God gave you a brain.. USE IT.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago


      There are many examples of Jesus upbraiding the Church leaders for their gross sins [selections from Matthew 23]:


      …THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… you DEVOUR WIDOW’S HOUSES… you shall receive the greater damnation.

      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES…

      WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES…



      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You… have omitted… JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH…

      You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.


      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…

      WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES!… you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

      You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES… you KILL AND CRUCIFY… you SCOURGE in your synagogues… Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE"!!

      A little sarcastic maybe. Maybe slightly abusive. But angry? Of course not. I know that hell believers are the way they are to fullfill God's purpose for them right now. But look at what Jesus said to those pharesies. And they never taught anything as blasphamist as eternal hell. So pardon my candor. But I don't know of words abusive enough to use against such heresy.

    • no body profile image

      Robert E Smith 8 years ago from Rochester, New York

      Why are you guys so angry if all eventually will be saved? Why are you so intollerant and abusive with words. Just tell her you don't want to talk anymore instead of calling names. Reasoning together is the method the Bible teaches. If that becomes too hard then don't participate in the debate but there's no need to be hurtful, is there? Carrie there are so many who read what you write and realize the truth of what you say.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      What a ridiculous lieing hypocrate you are. I'm sure you'll be back. Because you're obsessed. You just cited an error on my part that I never made. It is you that is grasping. You will be screaming "Hell No" in your dreams. You can't leave for five minutes. I'm calling your bluff you obsessed hypocrate. And just so we're clear, I don't want you to comment on my hubs again. That includes if your are trying to set another person straight in their comments. I'll see you after the reconciliation of all man kind.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      Those who say they have no sin, the truth is not in them. We consistently need to repent of our sin and receive His forgiveness. Yet another error in your teaching. I will leave, as you've requested. May GOD BLESS THE READERS. AMEN.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Blind Cave Fish Carrie just contradicted herself above, again.  Ha.  She says those in Christ have no sin and then she speaks of one in Christ having to repent of his what??????  That's right.  His sin. 

      Carrie, would you get out of here before I reach through cyberspace and through your computer to choke you?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan


      1 Cor 5:5 is in regard to those sinning in the church only. In this case, a son was having sex with his father's wife. God would use Satan to discipline this believer to repent of his sin, not earn salvation. Salvation is not by works, lest any man should boast.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Continuing for Blind Cave Fish Carrie:


      Matt. 10:34-36

      “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:  I came not to send peace, but a sword.  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.  And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household”



      Rom. 8:19-22

      For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God.  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope.  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.


      II Sam. 12:11

      . . . I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. . .


      Isa. 54:16

      I created the waster to destroy


      Prov. 16:4

      The Lord has made . . . the wicked for the day of evil.


      Lam. 3:38

      Out of the mouth of the Most High proceeds not evil and good?


      Jer. 4:6

      . . . I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.


      Jer. 6:19

      . . . Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people. . .


      Psalm 105:25

      He turned their heart to hate His people . . .


      Jer. 18:11

      Behold I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you. . .


      Rom. 11:32

      For God locks up all together in stubbornness.


      Isa. 63:17

      O Lord, why have You made us to err from Your ways. . .


      Josh. 23:15

      . . . so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things. . .


      Amos 3:6

      . . . shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it?


      Heb. 12:5

      Yet He is scourging every son to whom He is receiving.


      Job 2:10

      What?  Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?


      I Sam. 15:2-3

      Thus saith the Lord of hosts . . . go and smite Amalek. . .Destroy. . .slay both man and woman, infant and suckling. . .


      II Thes. 2:11

      . . . God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.


      Cor. 5:5

      To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh. . .


      Oh, but let me guess Carri.  Following each of those scriptures above is a contradiction telling us that we really have a free will?  Let me guess as an example:

      Rom. 311

      Not one is seeking out God. . . . .unless as Carrie says, you want to go to heaven, then you damn well better.


      Jer. 13:23

      Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?  Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil?

      Of course you can because as Carrie and the churchaholics insist, we have a free will to be good or evil.

      how bout:

      Rom. 12:4

      God parts to each the measure of faith.

      But the rest is determined by how one uses his/her free will.

      Let's not forget:

      Job 32:8

      But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

      and going to church every Sunday to learn about how deserving of hell we are.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 8 years ago

      Carrie, get your lieing, self righteous mug off of my hubs. You are obviously intimidated by the truths given here. You must be obsessed with me and Jaccobsladder. But you haven't learned anything. God will slap the false idols out of you heart when He's ready. I can do no such thing. It is trully a mirricle that one can be so blind to the truths here. You want to see what the scripture say about our "free will"? Do ya? Well here it is.

      Jer 10:23

      . . . . . I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

      Jer. 13:23

      Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil?

      Rom. 3:11

      Not one is seeking out God

      Rom. 2:4

      “the goodness of God leads you to repentance”

      John 15:16

      Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

      John 6:44

      No one can come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be drawing (dragging) him.

      Eph. 1:4

      He (God) chooses us in Him (Christ)

      Rom. 11:7

      What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused.

      Rom 11:8

      God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day.

      Psa. 76:10

      Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee, the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

      Phil. 2:13

      For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Rom. 12:4

      God parts to each the measure of faith.

      James 1:17

      Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


      He has made every thing beautiful in His time: also He set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to end.(KJ)

      He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put concealment (obscurity mystery) in their heart so that the man may not find out his work, that which God does. (Concordant)

      Rom. 9:19-24

      You will be protesting to me, then, Why, then, is He still blaming? For who has withstood His intention? (everyone has withstood His will, but nobody has withstood His intention) . . . . Why do you make me thus? Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor? . . . . . . the vessels of indignation, adapted for destruction, it is that He should also be making known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, . . . (Concordant Literal Translation)

      Acts 13:47-48

      For this is what the Lord has commanded us: I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth. When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal (eionian) life believed.

      Pro 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps. (We have plans, not God. He already knows.)

      Ecc 1:15

      If something is crooked, it can’t be made straight: if something isn’t there, it can’t be counted.

      Ecc 6:10

      Whatever exists has already been named, and what man is has been known; no man can contend with one who is stronger than he.

      Isa 55:11

      So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

      Pr. 20:24 Man’s steps are ordained by the Lord; how then can man understand his way?

      Job 14:16

      For now thou numberest my steps dost thou not watch over my sin?

      Job 32:8

      But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

      “Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of the mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto you, Chorazin! Who unto you, Bethsaide! For if the mighty works (not some free will), which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

      But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, (Judgment, not hell) than for you And you, Capernaum, which art exalted into heaven, shall be brought down to hell (hades). (Similar to the Lucifer hoax where he is thrown out of heaven. Again, church theology fails.)

      For if the mighty works, which have been done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.

      Rom. 8:2

      For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus have made me free from the law of sin and death.

      1 Cor. 2:14

      But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

      It takes the works of Christ for one to repent, not some phantom free will.

      And who is responsible for the deception of man?

      Ezek. 14:9

      And if the prophet be deceived when he has spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

      John 12:38

      That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

      V39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

      V40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

      God Created Both Good and Evil For a Grand Purpose.

      Gen. 50:18-20

      And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. And Joseph said unto them, Fear not, for am I in the place of God? But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

      Ecc 7:13

      Think of what God has done! If God makes something crooked, can you make it straight?

      Rom. 9:18, 21

      Therefore hath He mercy on whom he will hath mercy, and who he will he hardeneth. . . . . . .Hath not the Potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

      Ex. 4:11

      And the Lord said unto him, who hath made man’s mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?

      Isa. 45:7

      I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

      Ecc 1:13

      . . .an experience of evil has God given to the sons of man. . .

      Matt. 10:34-36

      “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter agai

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      And as far as God being the One to make the choice of salvation for us, how can one be saved through judgment or fire? You mean to imply that God will first judge everyone and expect them to make a choice? If they can't and He can, He can choose to save before puting His children through fire! You are making God out to be cruel, not we!

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan

      "In Whom we also have obtained an inheritance being predestined ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE OF HIM Who works all things after the counsel of His own will." (Eph. 1:11). Again twisted, you are saying the PERSON is PREDESTINED. This passage is saying that the INHERITANCE is PREDESTINED (according to the PURPOSE of Him). That PURPOSE is JESUS CHRIST.

      You quote Isaiah 46:10 as though His purpose is to bring judgment to the earth, but again in the VERY NEXT VERSE 11 that PURPOSE is "The man of My purpose" and in verse 13 "I bring near My righteousness (Jesus) and My salvation will not delay." What is more important than the purpose of salvation through Jesus Christ?

      You guys are more focused on salvation coming through judgments on the earth or after death than on Jesus Christ, who did not come to judge, but to save (John 3:17)!

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 8 years ago from Manhattan





      It's when we HEAR the WORD, we are CONVICTED and DRAWN by GOD, receiving then the FAITH BY HEARING THE WORD, to receive SALVATION.  AMEN.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      "Where is the wise? Where is the Scribe? Where is the disputer [debater] of this world? Has not God made foolish [Gk: ‘stupid’] the wisdom of this world?" (I Cor. 1:20).

      Notice that it is not the "foolishness" of this world that God says is stupid, but rather it is the "wisdom" of this world that is stupidity to God! And one of the most profound philosophical and theological pieces of wisdom that is universally agreed upon in this world is the belief that man possesses free will or free moral agency. Virtually everyone in all ages have believed this teaching of free will, and yet not one of them has ever seen it proved either Scientifically or Scripturally.

      "choose v 1. To select from a number of possible alternatives" (The American Heritage College Dictionary).

      Carrie has no proof.  She can't even follow the scriptures that she tries to quote.  We are specifically told not to judge, yet Carrie thinks she is allowed to under the guise of "I'm a sinner, I will just ask God to forgive me"  Carrie calls the Word of God Satanic when clearly there is scripture that says we are never to say that which is of God is of the Devil.  Yet Carrie thinks she is allowed to throw curses around like candy, then cry how she is a sinner and just can't help herself.  She CHOOSES to be a sinner by her own definitions.  She can't accept that God is control of ALL things even when the scriptures are under her nose.  WHY?  Because she enjoys sinning. 

      "…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure" to bring about His intentions (Phil. 2:13).

      "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Matt. 6:9-10).

      Carrie do you actually understand this prayer?  Do you think God's will can't be done?  Yes you do according to the unscriptual trash you post.

      "For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion" (Rom. 9:15).

      Carrie actually hates that God would be in control of her and all things.  She wants to rule her own life and casually state that God has to fight the devil for control of mankind.

      Just who is in control in this statement, puny man or God? Man’s will is not free to contradict what God says He WILL DO.

      "So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but OF GOD that shows mercy" (Ver. 16).

      What puny man "wills" has absolutely nothing to do with what God WILL DO.

      "For the Scripture says unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My powers in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens" (Vers. 17-18).

      "And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken unto Moses" (Ver. 12).

      Did the Pharaoh harden his own heart or did God do it against Pharaoh's supposed free will?  God does not change.  He is the same today as he was yesterday.

      "For I am the Lord, I CHANGE NOT…" (Mal. 3:6).

      "Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, and today, and for ever" (Heb. 13:8).

      So guess what Carrie, He still causes peoples hearts to harden.  He is causing yours to be harden as we write.

      "You will say then unto me, Why does He [God] yet find fault? For who has resisted His will [Greek: boulema—‘resolve, purpose, a deliberate intention’]?" (Rom. 9:19).

      You cannot resist the Will of God Carrie.  The above is an amazing Scripture. This Scripture shows the difference in attitude between those who understand God’s plan and will and those who do not.

      She thinks God had to crush the devil at the cross as if the devil was ever a threat to God.  Carrie can't think of God as Supreme.  She has to lower him into terms she can understand, God as weak as man.  God is NOT a man Carrie.  God is in control of ALL things.  God has declared the beginning from the end.  The Elect were Chosen/Predestined.  How can you be predestined to be anything if you have free will?

      How can God declare the beginning from the end if you can change what God has declared?  Truly you think yourself a god in control of your own self. 

      "…oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God [‘as a god’] sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God [‘is a god’]" (II Thes. 2:4)

      As long as this phantom god rules one’s heart, Jesus may only be "with us," but not really "IN us." For Jesus our King to sit in the heart of our temple, the man of sin must be put out, seeing that, "no man can serve two masters," and "what fellowship has light with darkness?"

      It is not I or anyone else in the grasp of the devil.  God is truly doing some mighty work here.

      Carrie can't point to one scripture that has been presented to her that is wrong.  She sidesteps the issues under blanket statement of your wrong and I'm right ... yet she has no proof.  She can barely make sense in her writings.  Carrie flip flops between lucid understanding and ineligible writing.  I doubt she even knows what she is saying herself.

      "In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained [‘obtained’ not ‘earned’] an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God, not us] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, OF US!] Who WORKS ALL THINGS [EVERYthing] AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL [not OUR OWN WILL]" (Eph. 1:11).

      Again, God is in control of ALL things Carrie.  That includes you.  you do not have free will to choose to do what you want.  ALL is of God.  It is HE who directs your steps.  NOT You.

      And for all who do have confidence in the Scriptures, let me say equally dogmatically that there is absolutely no Scriptural proof for man having a "free will" or the ability to make "uncaused choices." In every case Scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance. This law of "cause and effect" is stated and demonstrated time and again in Scripture. Ignorance of these behind the scenes causes does not disprove the fact that they are the actual and literal cause of our choices

      Carrie enjoys the attention she gets from calling others of The Devil.  She thinks it makes her look knowledgeable.  She quotes Matthew 7:6 yet doesn't realize that she is the swine spoken of in the scripture.  Carrie's ego and vanity won't let her stop posting as if she knows what she is speaking about.

      "For the creature [Gk: ‘creation’] was made [put under, subordinate to, to obey] subject to vanity [Gk: ‘futility’], not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope."

      Carrie, I know that God is in control of ALL things despite what you want to believe, none of what you have posted is truthful study.  But, I know that GOD has also given us hope and... 

      I hope God will allow you to see and hear His Word.  It really is the good news for a reason!  I pray God shows you the compassionate you are unable to show or give towards others that you claim to be better than, since they are sinners consigned to a mythical Hell and you apparently are not. You have a VERY limited understanding of what God is, what He expects from us and what His plans for us are.

      I know 6 & 7 yr old's who have a better understanding of God & His love than you do.

    • profile image

      Ast 9 years ago

      Look, Carrie, I like you and all, but I've been following the debates around here and I can clearly see that you have no more argument, especially if you're even using Scripture to try to make us "Satanian".

      "The doctrine of no accountability to God (in that there will be no Hell and ALL are saved) is a LIE..." And yet I can't see you proving your stand at all.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 9 years ago from Manhattan

      Jacobsladder: You said, "those that wish to hold onto their carnal desires and belief that they are their own god in charge of their own destiny are the ones who Hate this truth." And what is the fate of those "Christians"? If you are not "Christian" are you ~ Satanian? There are only two masters and God says you cannot serve two masters (Matthew 6:24) ~ to CHOOSE (Joshua 24:15). You're right about debate. We must STAND in what we believe to be the truth. The doctrine of no accountability to God (in that there will be no Hell and ALL are saved) is a LIE and the father of all lies is SATAN (John 8:44).

    • jacobbsladdr profile image

      jacobbsladdr 9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Don't worry Hell NO, we have comfort in knowing that...

      "None of the wicked shall understand; but the Wise shall understand" (Daniel 12:10)

      I think the problem in understand that there is no Free Will is that people understand that they make choices. We do make choices everyday, all day BUT these choices are not uncaused and therefore NOT free from outside influence and therefore also NOT free will. People do not like the idea of being controlled, those that have no problem with God's truth about Free Will welcome this news. those that wish to hold onto their carnal desires and belief that they are their own god in charge of their own destiny are the ones who Hate this truth.

      I find it rather funny.

      You can show a "Christian" all the truthful scripture you want that refute their unscriptural beliefs and they will fight you tooth and nail. They want to think that only they are deserving of Heaven and let all those other sinners who CHOOSE to go to Hell burn forever. It's fair to them, it makes sense to them to have others suffer while they float around in Heaven. The Carnal mind truly is enmity towards God. It's such a hypercritical attitude, not to mention completely UNscriptural.

      We CAN take comfort in knowing that their belief system is in accord with God's will. They are exactly where God wants them to be. It is NOT our job to provide them with assurances of salvation. Let the JW's and Mormon's go door to door.

      We are not commanded to witness or change others understandings. We can't. All is in God's control and to everything there is a time and season. This is why we are told to answer a fool according to a fool. We only need to expose those who contradict. The likes of which, such has Ms. Bradshaw and the others who promote the belief in outright lies regarding the Scriptures & don't even know the difference between unscriptural additions vs. scriptural and truthful passages within the Bible. Just a quick glance at her postings will tell you how entrenched she is into Babylon. Like so many others, she is just parroting what she has heard in church and not from her own truthful search as we are told to do. Her belief system is tainted and will remain so only until and/or IF God chooses to unblind her.

      It is NOT for her to know right now.

      AND, it really does no good to debate, only God can change a person's heart. The person can't do it of themselves. All we can do it provide them with the TRUTHFUL scripture, God will determine if they will have the eyes and ears to see and hear, not us.

    • profile image

      Hell N0 9 years ago

      You refute scripture and common sense with your insistence on free will.


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