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Flaws in Feminism (A Woman's Perspective)

Updated on June 19, 2013

Thank you feminists

There is a lot to thank the feminists for. Generations ago, women begun to have a choice to work...or not, have access to activities and jobs once exclusively for men, ability to do more things outside of the home, including voting and gaining property rights. Some things they continue to do today is fight for ending sexual assault and domestic violence, which I am thankful for as well.

Overall though, somewhere around the 70's and forward, feminism took a wrong turn. Some of it was effects of our new "freedoms" and they inadvertently caused a landslide of other issues. Feminism has gotten ugly today because it has increasingly become more about making political statements and taking narrow minded to a new low. It has become a political platform, a platform for hatred of men, even a trend for some women.

This was once an exclusive group of people who originally stood against that type of hypocrisy. Some of the issues they've chosen in recent years are petty and idle, a disgrace to serious issues that face women as a whole. Many generations ago feminism stood for dignity in being a woman. They were not trying to get or take anything from any other group, but now much of feminist thoughts and agendas focus on taking from other groups to achieve their goals.

Femasculine

The old goals of fighting for all women alike, having choices and better lives has taken a backseat to personal agendas such as politics and sexual orientation groups.For instance, feminists are focusing on political correctness, such as using the "she" form within written text rather than the generic "he". Also making some women feel as though they have been violated when they actually haven't- this stems from a sue-happy society. Political correctness is a waste of time in general- it's like potato or potata. It is politics because only politics focus on the minuscule issues, spinning their wheels while bigger things need attention.

Femasculine, by my definition, means that society (feminists included) have prematurely and dishonestly celebrated the uprising of women. It is actually an uprising of a more masculine woman. In short, women have to be like men in this society. Feminists reiterate the fact that we don't need men. No, we don't because we have become more like them. I can tell you now that if we play their game and compete to be like men, against men, we will never win. This is no solution at all and yet here we are on this track.

We are not valued as women. Of course it is still pleasing for women to be attractive (which is also geared toward men), but we truly haven't gained anything in society by utilizing our feminine qualities and assets (other than looks, which seems to be the most notable quality). Our strength that men claim we have over them is using our looks to persuade, but this is also an inherent weakness in that it tempts men and strikes fire in some to do pretty awful things to women as well. Not even looks are our strength.

Pant Suits and Princess Gowns

Is being a princess a disgrace to women? Does that mean we are still focusing on looks. Yes and no. The problem is celebrity interpretation of princess is a spoiled brat that gets what she wants because, and only because, she wants it.

I am raising a 4 yr old girl so I have had my fair exposure to Disney princesses and a gamut of movies. What's wrong with wanting to be like a princess? Women should expect a man to treat her good. Are there princes likely to be lined up for every girl. No way, but like I said, a man should treat a woman good. Problem is, women are caught between thinking they must be with the perfect man or not get married because a prince doesn't exist, or settle.

Feminists have taught us if we want something, we do it ourselves. We don't need to be pampered by him because we'll power play for his job and pay for the pampering at a spa. This isn't the solution.

Let's talk about the princesses in the Disney movies. They embrace the traits of a woman.In many Disney movies the princess is hard-working (Tiana in The Frog Princess), adventurous (Ariel in Little Mermaid), kind to the less fortunate (Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs), resourceful (Rapunzel in Tangled). I could easily name a 100 traits that are wonderful to embody as a princess, as a woman and none of them are spoiled like the celebrity version. There is nothing wrong with being a princess.

Stay-at-home Loser

No pants suits or power suits here. What is the least respected job in the U.S? Stay-at-home mom and housewife; least paid, least appreciated, and least recognized and legitimized in U.S culture. We do not value the mothers that stay home to raise our future generations. I believe my mom staying at home with me for the first ten years of my life gave me a wonderful start. She knew me better than anyone and knew if my course in life was trailing and if I was lying. I never dabbled in drugs, smoking, sex as a teen. My mom knew me so well she'd pick up on those warning signs before anything happened. She was involved. However, not every mom can stay home.

I see women who work outside the home struggle with their children because they basically have only the weekends to get to know their child. They have to get information and tips from the daycare providers on what to do with their kids. Those people know their kids better than them. This, of course, is only my opinion, but don't get me wrong I am very much for women having a choice to stay at home or work. For some women, they would not choose to stay at home and that's OK as long as it's a choice. Unfortunately most dual income households and single women do not have that choice.

Women choose to go to work to not only provide for their family, but to have more stuff that they really don't need. They also go to work because it makes them feel important and useful to society. It's a respectable status.

I initially went to work after my daughter was born because I felt good telling people my respected position title. I laughed in the faces of sloppy housewives. This false notion was fed to me by a society that took it's cue from feminists who believed they were empowering us. My husband and I wanted to make a comfortable living. It really wasn't for survival, it was to afford more things. It amazed me how easy my job was compared to the days I stayed at home with my baby. I'd sit at my desk and look at my baby's picture and think 'this is working, it's so easy'.

Just because it's easy, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Staying at home is tough, not glamorous at all. How many jobs do you get crapped on and not be able to jump in the shower when you want to and even if you did, it wouldn't matter cause you'll just get crapped on again five minutes later. I made this choice to stay home when my daughter was 5 months old. It literally cut our income in half.

But, let's take into account the single mothers who have to work. This is obviously not a choice they are given and to me, that's proof we aren't addressing a big issue. So many single moms out there and most are not given resources or know their options, but most will never have a chance to stay at home with their children if they wanted to. How can society be failing so blatantly in this- where are the feminists on this one? Yes, women can now work outside the home, but there is no financial support for single women who want to stay at home. Trust me, staying at home is not the lazy way out of working.

78% of single moms hold a job and 45% have more than one. This is a lot of time away from kids, kids who probably live in bad neighborhoods who need the most attention. Over half are at or near the poverty level. One in four babies are born to single moms. But these statistics are not only referring to poor class, but to older moms. Feminists have eased the stigma of sleeping around and having a child outside of marriage.

Feminism have encouraged women to go ahead and conceive outside of marriage, don't feel like you "need" a man to have a child, easing the stigma of women sleeping around behaving like men at their worst. The focus is on individualism and not needing a partner to raise a child or not having to "put up with" irreconcilable differences is a feminist pursuit.

Long ago feminists groups fought for women having a choice to work outside the home. They fought for women to be individuals and have a voice. Women felt devalued and unappreciated as a stay-at-home mom so of course working outside the home made them feel worthy and better about themselves. I know, I was one of those. Suppose feminists fought to make stay-at-home a more respected position so some of the women looking for validation wouldn't have to go outside the home seeking it. Feminists gave women the choice, but also confirmed that staying at home is a lesser pursuit.

Work and Family: Feminists failed the balancing act

I see the family unit as the glue in our society and I don't see feminists fighting to keep that intact. It's just more focus on politics and individualism. The fact that feminists pushed for women to thrive as men do in our society was ill-conceived. The notion of a balance has never come to fruition. A more substantial gain in the feminist corner would have been to have women thrive as women in society. For women to be seen as valuable because of the unique feminine qualities and talents that women have to offer (besides looks).

While there are feminist topics of importance such as discovering yourself as a woman and embracing those traits, these are highly individual, somewhat New Age or metaphysical, rather than benefiting women on a whole in society. A woman may find her 'inner woman' at home, but once she is at work, she is in a man's world. This is a struggle I see in women nowadays who almost seem to live different lives, too many different roles. At work they perform as a man, at home they need to be mommy, on their own they are trying to rediscover what it means to be a woman, but it is lost once they set foot outside the door into society.

When will I be happy?

Probably never. Hey, I'm honest. As long as we try to beat men at being like men, we'll lose the battle. Hell, we don't even fight battles the same way to begin with. Most of the issues surrounding women's rights could be resolved if women were as physically powerful as men and men decided to be subordinate to women. This isn't going to happen- we're different and should be celebrated as such.

For either man or woman, one must respect the other as they are and for their specific traits just to tolerate them and live happily together. Men have a deeper inherent need to be dominant than women so the focus should still be on not overtaking one sex, but respecting the other. I know dominant women and they are endlessly exhausted because it isn't truly what a woman is. I think feminists today believe in female superiority when neither sex should ultimately be regarded as superior.

I believe many men, especially the abusive and mentally ill, will always disrespect a woman because they have in the back of their mind the realization that they are physically stronger. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out and usually the dumbest will in fact use it. It's like kicking the dog- man will always have woman to vent frustrations and feelings of powerlessness onto. I have so many examples of this randomly taking place in my own life just within society, it would blow your mind.

We will always have these issues because of man's ability to overpower a woman physically. If physical strength is seen as the ultimate strength to be measured by then that's not the battle we should be fighting. Instead of beating men at their own game, let's make our own rules and measure strength in our own way.

Of course women are not the only victims. Women are filing for divorce as often if not more than men. Women are becoming increasingly educated as they outnumber men who graduate college. Women have certainly found a step up in society. So should feminists want total equality and to be treated the same as men? This is such an impossible notion for me to wrap my head around because we are simply...different. So when will feminists be happy is the true question.

While there are feminist topics of importance such as discovering yourself as a woman and embracing those traits, these are highly individual, somewhat New Age or metaphysical, rather than effecting women on a whole in society. A woman may find her 'inner woman' in the privacy of her home, but once she is at work, she is in a man's world. This is a struggle I see in women nowadays who almost seem to live different lives. At work they perform as a man, at home they need to be mommy, on their own they are trying to rediscover what it means to be a woman sans various outside roles, but this is where is see the imbalance in society. I don't believe it is right to expect a woman to be ten different people to fit into various aspects of her life. As a strong woman, that's my fight.

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    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 16 months ago from London England

      I think i've met more women who never discuss Feminism (don't need it?) than an occassional 'point scoring' remark. The woman that are into Feminism i've managed to keep my distance from.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 16 months ago from London England

      Happened to me again. Ignored my presence at first, then when i looked elsewhere she began to make loud banging noises in order for me to notice her again.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 17 months ago from London England

      Sometimes when interacting with the opposite gender for purpose of amity there is the danger of one or two things. Firstly for reasons known only to herself, she may wish to hurt thence being able to 'get off' on the male baiting syndrome. There is also the rapport starting to look like a relationship and she has to distance herself due to reputation issues.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 21 months ago from London England

      Re visiting this site again and 'going over' my own postings, i still stand by my comments however i have decided to become a recluse and distance myself from mainstream society. I still have to be polite to every one and assist those in need of help. But one thing than is very difficult to get used to is not having a rapport with women. Okay! It is easy to avoid girls and younger women, they don't want to be accosted by older males in public which i accept is their right. Without being able to interact with a Lady, then a man is a loser. So i maintain a very small circle of feminine aquaintenses who i can talk to, tell them my hopes and aspirations. In return i try to make them laugh and this boosts my self esteem.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 2 years ago from The Great Northwest

      limpet,

      yes everybody suing everybody now. I've written on the Demise of Guys. It will all be an unbalanced society if we keep giving precedence to minority groups. We need to take the focus off human rights for a minute and put it on bigger issues that face the whole country. Security and national debt is bigger than same-sex marriage for instance.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 2 years ago from London England

      In this morning's press there was a one paragraph article detailing a woman taking a man to court on a sex discrimination case citing her firing from his firm and eviction from an apartment he owned. She was awarded by a New York court a staggering $2.7 million despite him cheating on his wife, she was cheating on her boyfriend at the same time.

    • profile image

      SanXuary 2 years ago

      If I had it to do all over again I would have convinced myself that I do not need women. I could have saved a ton of money, never been divorced. Would have never been screwed by a criminal court system that hates men worst then any feminist. Men have no rights in this country and every man would be better off if they stayed a way from women. I do not think its women but a system in need of a huge correction. I do not think that any thing is going to make it better so I cheer on the apocalypse. I hope it comes today.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      Actually, Germaine Greer is a retired lecturer in English Literature specialising in the Shakespearian works. Among Professor Greer's other skills are being an author, social commentator and women's advocate. Professor Greer did report on the aftermath of the Bangla Desh civil war in 1971 from within that country.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      Profound apologies for the spelling errors in my previous posting as i am very hard on myself over such silly mistakes. I shouldn't have described Germaine Greer as a journalist although Doctor Greer has a weekly column in a London tabloid. In her varied career Ms Greer has achieved many remarkable milestones in several categories most notably Women's Liberation. Hurrah for Germaine Greer, good on you Gal!!!

    • FirstStepsFitness profile image

      FirstStepsFitness 3 years ago

      Great Hub , very well written Izettl . In my opinion men and women are equal , our differences should be celebrated not combined somehow . Women shouldn't strive to be just like men , we should strive to be the best version of ourselves .

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      Maybe if we made the term 'Feminist' obsolent and replaced such with 'Gender issues' as the stages to equality have deveoped from emancipation, franchisement, women in the war effort, women's liberation and the various new waves of Feminism up to now. Jouralist Germaine Greer in one of her more recent articles asserts that we still have sexual objectification and tokenism to beat yet.

    • profile image

      Sanxuary 3 years ago

      I think equality was meant to always exist. Even reading the Bible I did not find anything but equality, it even said that they were one in the same and equal in the creation story. People created their own social norms and used the words in whatever context they wanted it to mean. Still I believe that doubling the work force only lowered wages and now we are even more dependent on having everyone work to make ends meet. This has nothing to do with equality and has everything to do with keeping a large percentage of the people as poor as possible. If they raised the cost of living things would simply cost more. We are locked into a financial Ponzi scheme and the game of life is simply rigged. Give as much money as possible to the wealthy and take from everyone else by any means. Job or no job, less then two hundred years ago just about everyone worked or they starved to death. Most of that time had something to do with agriculture and it took the whole family to get most of it done.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I think it boils down to choices. Feminists fought for one choice and that seems backwards to me. Because now there are working women who don't feel they have a choice. Both choices should have been celebrated. It seems more geared toward being like men or being able to do what they do. I don't see men fighting to be able to have babies or rear children. It's not natural for most.

      Yes, women have more career choices, but usually end up with the children most of the time after a divorce and struggle no matter what field they are in because short on time and most of the financial burden still lies upon them. Since they have the children, they have limited ability to put in the extra effort needed and sacrifice needed to be promoted. We have to face we can't do it all and shouldn't be expected to do it all. I think feminists put more upon us and to whom more responsibility is given, more is expected from them.

      I haven't read Gone Girl but have heard about it.

      Bottom line is what men do is valued in this society, nothing a feminist did changed that so our only choice was to compete or be like men instead of valuing what women do. Raising children has never been glamorous yet being a CEO of a fortune 500 company, now that's deemed glamorous.

    • Elefanza profile image

      Elefanza 4 years ago from Somewhere in My Brain

      Excellent article! I think like all ideas/philosophies, there are many flaws in feminism just as there are flaws in people. I do think that the push to get women into the work force and the deep disrespect for stay at home moms is ridiculous. How can shaping and instilling the future of the next generation be bad? Yet I do remember the conversation swinging the other way. My mom would tell me story after story of how she was looked down on because she worked. And when my dad died, she never had the choice to not work. So I saw first hand how hard it is for single parents. She did everything.

      I've been delving into history lately and noted that when we started moving to a more industrial society and men started bringing more of the bacon home, it was associated with more respect and prestige. I think initially feminism tried to correct that imbalance by telling women they were worthy of respect and capable of entering the work force. I just think that respect became synonymous with work and doing things that men do. Yet I've noticed that whenever women enter a certain profession in numbers, men start to leave or find the profession disrespectful. And though I disagree with feminist's push to be a certain way because I don't think it addresses the whole enchilada, it's hard not to see that there is still work to be done.

      Don't know if you've read Gillian Flynn's Gone Girl, but there is this really interesting passage in which the main character talks about what society said should be the cool girl: basically, the girl who isn't needy, into whatever the guy is into, is a size six and yet eats manly foods and all this other stuff. And I do feel that that is the societal message that the character sees is one I've definitely felt time after time. Whenever I'm with my husband's friends, if I want to go against him in any way, it's like i''m branded a bitch or the party pooper. But it's not that way if he disagrees with me.

      Sometimes, I wish feminism would teach girls how to handle inequality in relationships because it seems that men always have the upper hand. And while I do see myself staying at home when I have kids, I hate the thought that this means I'm in a more vulnerable state financially. And that's what scares me: the dependency. Should anything happen, what them? I wonder if the over thrust of this message feminist tells comes from observing a narrative of women being unable to fight back against the helpless states that they found themselves in over and over again. At least now, as self-absorbed as this society is, women have more fields they can enter than in the 1960s when jobs were limited to being a secretary and a teacher.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Thanks needing-advice.

    • needing-advice profile image

      Jennifer VerMaas 4 years ago

      Thank you for writing this - whenever I hear the word feminist I think of an angry woman who either wishes she was a man or hates men in general. Women should be women but that doesn't mean women should live within predetermined formats. As the roles of women in society are diversifying from being CEO's, entrepreneurs, mommies and breadwinners, I have to ask myself if females in general haven't already attained an equal status level. I agree with you that we should thank feminists to get women at the level they are now.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      aliasis,

      One more note on this...women, even the original feminists, which I have respect for, have grown to believe that what makes a man feel good and accomplished is what makes us feel good too. There was nothing wrong for a woman to feel accomplished for having raised happy and healthy children. But we bought into the man's world logic of having accomplished a career and good earning potential. This is OK for men- it's what makes many feel good...and feel like a man. It is important to them. Women have now sacrificed raising their own children to have a career and feel accomplished so they can have it all. Having it all is impossible- there is a sacrifice to raising children- I gave up my career because you can't do both- even if you wait until your 30's. I did it all according to feminist notions and it failed. However, this would biolifcally work out because they are not able to have children so raising an happy and healthy family at home isn't necessarily what they're cut out for. Of course there are exceptions- like the woman who is meant for a career life or the man who is best to raise the kids, but this isn't meant for all so when feminists mention they want equality for all women, they are actually grouping ALL women into their agenda or their preferences.

      Also- in real life, not media, I don't know one feminist who didn't vote for Obama. So yes feminism is all about a political agenda even to the detriment of our country. Obama is not the best person to lead our country out of economical ruin, terrorism or unemployment, but he is a good human rights leader and that's seem to be most important to feminists- screw the country as a whole, let's just push our small agenda. And it is small compared to other threats to our country.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      aliasis,

      Well then the women who claim to be feminists that I've met just happen to be extremists. I acknowledge that many other countries have a long way to go and yes, they do need a feminist movement because their situations are extreme. However, I don't think America is in this predicament. Yes racism exists, sexism exists, but these people and circumstances will not change- these are the outliers who are not the typical and will not change for any feminist movement. There will always be these type of people. The typical every day feminist I know wants equality (as you stated) and wants to prove to be able to anything a man can. Well, this is illogical. Women are not men and we've gone in the direction (aside from media's portrayal of feminists) of perhaps not hating men but acting like them instead. I'm not sure why we have to act more like men to be acknowledged as women. And that is typical. It seems to closer feminists work to equality, the more women act like men- so yes, I suppose we will be equal one day. What a shame and the lovely and feminine typical woman will be something of the past.

      I;m going to guess you are young because I thought this way when I was in my teens and 20's- it wasn't' until I had kids and got married that I realized men are beautiful as men and women are so much better at typical female roles (if you think of the past). We are better nurturers but we aren't nurturing that talent anymore- we are trying to be more like men. It's too bad.

      Many fmeinists were in an uproar about Gabrielle Reece's book -My Foot is too Big for The Glass Slipper. Great book and I couldn't agree with her more. We can still be strong and successful women but serving our family and making a marriage work with a man is also something we are good at. Our society no longer values those things, but they are intrinsically valuable for a woman.

      As long as men are bigger or physically stronger than women, women will get beat up. But I've known many more small men to get beat up by larger men than I've known a woman to get beat up...in general. Also, I've known more women who beat their men than men who've beaten their women. Just sayin...personally.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      samowhamo- sounds like another extremist. I breast fed my daughter and son and nothing like that ever happened. Not to say it can't but psychologically for women, orgasm largely includes the brain so if this gives the mother pleasure to that extreme, then I suppose it's possible. Why it would give her that type of pleasure, I don't know. One thing I learned in psychology is that there are an infinite amount of personalities and mental illness and you can't possibly fit all strange things into a mental illness category. My question would be if the mother was trying to have an orgasm or if it just randomly happened. If it's purposeful or desirable..that's a little strange.

    • aliasis profile image

      aliasis 4 years ago from United States

      I honestly think you are dead wrong about feminism, with all due respect. The problem is not feminism or feminists, it's the media perception of feminists that portrays feminism as man-hating extremists. Those people don't exist in real life, or if they do, they don't represent the average woman. Feminism means that we recognize that women still face a lot of sexism today, and strict gender roles harm both men and women, and that we need to work together to make a positive change. I think it's often men who get defensive and claim that women hate them and are trying to "beat" them, when in reality, we just want equality and safety, and we simply do not have that today, not even in America.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl just out of curiosity your hompage says you have a degree in psychology well I was wondering if you can answer me this. There was this lesbian feminist who said that when a mother breast feeds a female baby she has an orgasmic reaction. Personally I think that's disgusting but even if that were true wouldn't a mother also react the same way to a male baby breast feeding. What is your answer.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Thank you izettl oh if you are interested there are some new hubs that I have written and published if you are interested.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      samowhampo~ separatist is a word others call them mostly. They probably are blind to it perhaps. That's why they're radicals. They have one strong/extreme viewpoint. I would guess they have this viewpoint so strong in them that they would not recognize it as irrational. It's like a cult following.

      Thanks Walt Kienia!

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl out of curiosity those separatist feminists I have mentioned before there was this one who said feminists don't understand separatism not even other radicals. Would you say that's just manipulation they are using to try to lend credability to what they say some of them even say boys are indoctrined at birth and their mothers influence will never be greater then their peers which I think is not true I mean there their mothers whos influence could possibly be greater.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      lavender holly~ I think you're missing my point. This isn't a man versus woman issue. It's really about the kids. I hear no mention of what is best for the kids. It isn't my choice- after having kids, it was their choice. Even as a baby, I knew putting my child in daycare wasn't the best for her- it was no longer about ME after I had kids.

      You gave me all political examples of feminist progress- I told you they are only making waves politically. the economy is suffering and you guys vote democrat for human rights issues. First things first, lets take care of the economy and our ratings in innovation and education before we take on gay marriage. Women have kids right? Well kids go to school and our schools and education ranking suck! There's a good feminist cause, but you won't see them getting involved there- those are republican concerns.

      I don't want to be equal to men- I want to celebrate being a woman. I hated feeling like a man in the workforce. Until I stayed home I never realized how masculine I got while being a career woman.

      My other point is I'm not persecuting women who chose to go back to work- I'm just going from experience that it felt expected. Just going with society...to go back to work. Society puts pressure on us to maintain a lifestyle above our means and we get into the trap of feeling like we have to work- it is simply a choice of your kids or work. I don't disrespect the women who choose work, I just think they're misguided by the "if we have the right then we should" mentality. I don't know one single feminist who fights for stay-at-home women- it's all for working women. They perpetuate the myth of having it all. One day if you have children, you will know how hard and unnatural it is to leave them with strangers at a daycare. It just shouldn't be like that. I believe we need to trust our gut and realize the right to go back to work blocks out our instinct to want to stay home. Staying at home is a non-legit profession. We work so hard with little respect. I'm glad you respect your mom, but not many others in general will.

      I knew you were young- I read your profile and you are very smart, but experience will make you wiser one day. Pay attention and learn from others who have experience that you don't. There is nothing natural in a woman's biology to leave her baby. The working moms I know joke about how they're not that good of a mother or they didn't like the way motherhood turned out. They should be at work but I can't respect them as mothers.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Thanks so much Walt!

    • lavenderholly profile image

      Victoria Raquel 4 years ago from Tejas

      " That's super for women to have a choice, but honestly it means less for the child when the woman goes back to work." You cannot criticize other women criticizing YOUR choice when you do exactly the same thing to them, which is indeed what you are doing.

      "Write me when feminists have made progress recently...since the 60's." They have. We're fighting for the LGBTQ* community as well as keeping birth control and abortion safe and legal. We're also making sure that women aren't being subjected to other insane laws that Republicans are trying to push.

      True, I am only fifteen so I have thankfully not had to make these choices. I'm not claiming that I have, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of some of your claims.

      I'm sorry if you'd had any disrespect for your choice, but feminists are fighting so that you don't have to go through that. Feminists fight for the right for abortion, for pay equality, and for gender equality overall. We're not acting like men by insisting that we are treated with equal respect. What on earth is so outlandish about that? If you want women to be respected for either choice then maybe you should respect women who didn't choose the same thing you did.

      And if it means anything to you, my mother is a stay-at-home mom and I respect and love her more than anybody else.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      lavender holly~

      "the entire premise of the feminist movement is that women should be respected in the choices that dictate their lives: A.K.A., if they want to stay at home, they can."

      Do you have kids? It's pretty much expected that women go back to work. We've made our lifestyles in this superficial society to require two incomes. I don't understand this women's choice...did children's needs change in the last 50 years. That's super for women to have a choice, but honestly it means less for the child when the woman goes back to work. And as far as I know children do not need less than they did back in the 50's. If women have kids, there shouldn't be much choice- it should be mostly about them at least the first few years when they have an excess of emotional, non material, needs.

      More here: https://hubpages.com/family/Dear-Daughter-Heres-Wh...

      I try to talk to feminists but they usually have ill words towards me cause i'm not jumping on their bandwagon. I don't know one woman who didn't "make a list" of their desirable/ideal man. Even Oprah and some other self help gurus promoted that. I waited a while to get married- into my 30's. I know many women my age (late 30's) still looking for Mr. Right. Another problem is that women today are man enough for themselves. I think I did settle at first, but he's turned out great- it wasn't that way in the beginning. I just said, 'what the heck' and got married.

      Write me when feminists have made progress recently...since the 60's. As a country we are so behind in the amount of time off we get with kids before going back to work- we have a small amount of family friendly work places, and work life expects women to put work first if she has kids. It's already known that women receive less pay and increases/promotions when she has kids. And me, being a stay-at-home, no there is a huge lack of respect for my choice. So if I want to go back to work, I need to act like a man. Again...no women are not respected (as women) either choice. I'm getting the feeling you haven't had to make these choices. You're just preaching.

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      Victoria Raquel 4 years ago from Tejas

      "Also making some women feel as though they have been violated when they actually haven't- this stems from a sue-happy society" I would ask for an example of this, please.

      "Problem is, women are caught between thinking they must be with the perfect man or not get married because a prince doesn't exist, or settle." You are a married woman, correct? Did you take this stance when you were single? I have never met a woman who actually thought this way, if I'm being perfectly honest with you.

      And hey, maybe you should actually start talking to some feminists because the entire premise of the feminist movement is that women should be respected in the choices that dictate their lives: A.K.A., if they want to stay at home, they can.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      There are also some feminist (and some men) who don't believe men can be raped by a woman they say you can't rape the willing and they say what man dosent want to get raped by a woman. Well just because they are men that dosent men they can't be raped or want to be raped that's another reason why I don't much care for femi-nazi's and with feminism the way it is today I think femi-nazi is a very appropriate name for feminists like this.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      All these people can do is preach and hate. Not unlike KKK- it's seen the last of slave days- they may preach about it or take small time matters into their own hands but diminishing or eliminating blacks will never happen on a large scale so you'll find them ranting and preaching looking like big timers on the Internet or in their groups of comrades.

      Then I guess that includes feminist the ones that want to exterminate men can talk about it all they want but they will never do it. There was this guy on here called XXXDude who said feminism has more power then the president well I doubt they have that much power but whether they do or not makes no real difference do you know how much power you would have to have these days to even attempt something like that probably more then Hitler had back in those days it was easier to do something like that but today its a lot harder nearly impossible.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Its interesting how feminsts always focus on bad things men do and never on bad things that women do. Paxton Quigley I think her name is said on an interview once about her book Armed and Female that we never hear about women commiting a massacre well that's not entirely true yes in this country women never have but in some European countries in the early 1900s there were they were syndicates runned by women who would marry men and then kill them they killed enough to count as a massacre. And also there was this boy who was sexually and physically tortured and abused by his own mother she even got his sister in on it. He nearly beat his mother to death and little to no relationship with his sister. These women did all this and radical feminists dare say that women are always victims and men are always oppressors these women were not victims these women were monsters that deserved to be locked up the men were the real victims.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I totally agree Sam. I don't like extreme anything. In fact guys need more support than ever. I want to write something soon about that.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Some feminists even want to reduce the male population to 10 or 20 percent. There was this woman who won Miss America or something like that and she said that she wants to reduce the male population to 20 percent saying that her supporters have had some success in the early stages. She is probably just saying that people like her are all just talk. I am so sick of these radical feminists thinking they can say and do whatever they want without consequence they think they are above the law, rules, morals, ethics, and accountability.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Women, not violent? I've been in more altercations with women than men and threatened more often by women as well. I prefer to stay away and have most of my friends be men because you never know what ticks off a woman. I can see men's anger coming a mile away...but women...they can be kind of evil in passive aggressive ways as well.

      I agree absolutely you have more chance of convincing me that the world is going to end in 7 days then you have of convincing me that women are non-violent.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sounds like those feminists need to take a basic biology class...or write a science fiction book. They get attention by using extremes and sadly gullible followers.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Parthenogenesis will never become possible in humans no matter what major evolutionary change in fact the further you evolve the more complex you become (making it more impossible) humans are just to complex to reproduce by parthenogenesis in spite of what some feminists say.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      A lesbian feminist named Mary Dally who was a theologist who compared patriarchy to a death-preaching force that most women were trapped in and spoke against equality and said women ought to govern men she even believed that women would evolve to reproduce almost entirely without men if life is to survive on this planet (which is impossible parthenogenesis is impossible in most vertebrates and for those animals that can reproduce through parthenogenesis its always the result of a mutation only found in a few fish, amphibians, and reptiles and is completely impossible in mammals). Feminist are horrible at science and they say that these women are not real feminist and are only a minority well they may very well be a minority but if they are not real feminists then why is Mary Dally one of the most famous lesbian feminists some feminists have issues.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Some feminists even lable all men oppressors even though not all men harm women or even have power to oppress that just shows that men and boys are not human to feminists. After every example of misandry that I have talked about from feminists I can't even pity them anymore I often think that pity on them is a waste of time I try not to let my anger blur my judgment on them but a person can only take so much before they just stop caring about those that bother them.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ you've got women trying on the man's pants for the first time and they definitely are taking on some of that ego too. Back in early days of our history, man, especially white man thought everyone was beneath them. Now women are getting the notion that they can do everything themselves and don't need a man, it seems they've forgotten that history and want to act like men of many years ago. It seems strange but xtreme groups puzzle me anyway.

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      Sam 4 years ago

      You know what that proves to me you said that women are becoming more like men well that proves to me that women are becoming more like men in ego as well.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Well this is so highly unlikely and probably the reason these feminists talk about it because action is not likely. Society has a way of making extreme things coexist in our culture though. I think this lesbian utopia can exist within extreme groups in our society, but never possible on the large scope. As you explain the biological ramifications of this kind of society, it makes it even more impossible. All these people can do is preach and hate. Not unlike KKK- it's seen the last of slave days- they may preach about it or take small time matters into their own hands but diminishing or eliminating blacks will never happen on a large scale so you'll find them ranting and preaching looking like big timers on the Internet or in their groups of comrades.

      Women, not violent? I've been in more altercations with women than men and threatened more often by women as well. I prefer to stay away and have most of my friends be men because you never know what ticks off a woman. I can see men's anger coming a mile away...but women...they can be kind of evil in passive aggressive ways as well.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      About the lesbian utopia for more info on it click here.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_utopia

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Feminists now are fighters and they must create an enemy to fight against instead of men being an ally. In reality, they should be fighting FOR things, not against them. Fight for something constructive or good, not fight against men.

      Some feminists want to establish what they call a lesbian utopia. Here are a couple of quotes from those women.

      (I personally subscribe to the idea of a lesbian utopia for lesbian/feminist women with little patriarchal male influence.) She said this in response to a book about lesbian domestic violence then she said (I didn't think I could get abused unlike some of my sisters in heterosexual relationships.)

      There was this other woman who said lesbian domestic violence does not mean the end of a lesbian utopia we have all grown up in a homophobic society and to establish it we need everyone's help.

      I agree that we live in a homophobic society but we don't live in times where homo sexuality is criminalized or treated as a mental illness anymore. And I am not sure a lesbian utopia would work or is even ethical for two reasons one its a biased idea that has been talked about in feminists fiction where men are either wiped out or separated (but in most stories wiped out) and women dominate everything women are free from patriarchy yes but not equal with men because there is no men and two because you would need to come up with a way to reproduce without men that idea has also been talked about by feminists called parthenogenesis where women reproduce without men. The interesting thing about that is that research into that has been done before on both men and women on women feminists were outraged because they feared that the research could make women redundant but with men feminists did not react in any way. In spite of all the hype from feminists its virtually impossible for men and women to reproduce without each other and even if women could reproduce without men it would have to be done genetically and even then it still would be one hundred percent foolproof because if they did reproduce without men the human genome would become dangerously homogenous and women would been wiped out literally from disease (because there immune system would be greatly damaged if not destroyed completely) and from stupidity (intelligence would literally decrease). And that one feminist I mentioned earlier (Au Fait) says most women are none violent and most feminists are not like that well I am sorry to disagree with her but her word is not enough to convince me and I have very good reasons to think that after all of the misandry from feminists these days and that female violence is skyrocketing in some parts of the world based on real reports and study's I have seen.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Thank you izettl if you are interested I just wrote an article about the first woman paleontologist.

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Mary-Anning-The-...

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam, the first lesson my parents tried teaching me was life isn't fair, but I didn't learn that lesson until I had my own experiences as an adult. Life isn't fair because none of are the same so its impossible that everyone be treated the same. we all are different and have different opinions. the catch is, no matter what those opinions are, we all deserve to be treated as human beings. slavery wasn't right, but so many other classes of people were mistreated early in our history as well. For that time period, general human rights wasn't even a second thought. Those with mental health illness are still mistreated and not given much of a second thought yet not many advocate for them. its too bad.

      As a leader, you must find everyone's strengths and build on those. Why? Because not everyone is equal. I think that's true with men and women. Having a boy and girl, I see immediate differences in what they are good at, practically from birth. I encourage them in those strong points. I think men and women should do this, but feminists think women should and can do everything. I'm a mom of two kids...do I love one more than the other? No way! Seriously...impossible! I love them the same, but because of their differences. It's the differences that make them special to me in unique ways.

      Feminists now are fighters and they must create an enemy to fight against instead of men being an ally. In reality, they should be fighting FOR things, not against them. Fight for something constructive or good, not fight against men.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Izettl I remember you saying that you don't believe men and women are or should be equal. That reminds of a comment that I read on another article about feminism from a woman that maybe you have heard of her screen name is Au Fait. She is a feminist and has a degree in psychology in her comment she said that he talked to men and women around and they all had a negative view on feminism she said saying that they didn't believe men and women are equal. Then she said something about how its a shame how some women are so controlled by men they don't even realize it.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey Izettl you should really read this.

      http://www.avoiceformen.com/updates/news-updates/r...

      Here's a brief description of it.

      The Radfems have finally found themselves a conference facility desperate enough for some quick cash that they will even do business with a group of ideologues that want to kill children, practice eugenics and develop plans for mass murder against anyone who happens to be male. MRA London objects.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      In those link that I posted there was this woman who said that she blames this rise in domestic violence in the distorted and stereotypical portrayls of women as mothers or sex objects which I agree with to an extent but I agree with you more that it's changing roles and pressure from society.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam,

      Thanks Sam! I respect you too. I probably have felt like an outcast often in my life. I don't mind being viewed as such. Other peoples' opinions of me don't bother me much. I know how to fit into society and be the popular one, but I don't like to only because that's not me- and in real life I have few close good friends and I like it that way. I don't like to be fake or lie to be accepted. I have always enjoyed being a bit different.

      Thanks for sticking by me too. I was going to write a hub today but I think I'll do some reading. I haven't read others' hubs in a while.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Don't I respect you have I ever given you reason not to respect you, you have very helpful to me and a good friend to me and I respect you for that. :)

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam, the violence toward women si probably more overt than ever because men are not totally in control and they are throwing a tantrum to exert their control. It also concerns women being more forceful and "taking over" in some ways. Men are happiest being head of household- they make more money and have better health. However, women becoming more independent think they can leave a man at any time and its perfectly acceptable. Society has changed because men are now needed to fill women's roles as they are working outside the home more. Some men are backlashing at the changes. This shift in society is happening and will happen as long as the traditional roles are devalued as stay-at-home moms are (I should know- nobody respects us!).

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl when you have the time could you please read this here at the bottom and tell me how accurate it is I am thinking about writing a hub about violence towards men and women but I am not an expert and I thought you might be a good person to ask.

      http://www.womensviewsonnews.org/2013/02/the-kille...

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/17/m...

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hi Izettl in addition to my last comment could you please read this article and the one comment in it and tell me what you think i'm not really an expert at this.

      http://www.womensviewsonnews.org/2013/02/the-kille...

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl usually I would ask one of my other followers this but his comments are disabled at the moment. Have you ever heard of Allan Johnson and his book The Gender Knot in it he says that we all contribute to patriarchy in some way and that individual choices we make have more of an effect then we know. This is his definition of patriarchy.

      1. Male dominated--which doesn't mean that all men are powerful or all women are powerless--only that the most powerful roles in most sectors of society are held predominantly by men, and the least powerful roles are held predominantly by women

      2. Organized around an obsession with control, with men elevated in the social structure because of their presumed ability to exert control (whether rationally or through violence or the threat of violence) and women devalued for their supposed lack of control--women are assumed to need men's supervision, protection, or control

      3. Male identified: aspects of society and personal attributes that are highly valued are associated with men, while devalued attributes and social activities are associated with women. There is a sense of threat to the social structure of patriarchies when these gendered associations are destabilized--and the response in patriarchy is to increase the level of control, often by exerting control over women (as well as groups who are devalued by virtue of race, ethnicity, sexuality, or class).

      4. Male centered: It is taken for granted that the center of attention is the natural place for men and boys, and that women should occupy the margins. Public attention is focused on men. (To test this, take a look at any daily newspaper; what do you find on the front page about men? about women?)

      And also there was this one feminist who proposed that heterosexuals and bisexuals remain celibate until they are less sexually assertive or aggressive or something like that.

      How much of this do you think is true

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Interesting Dark Proxy. It's not a far stretch from other countries with killing of girls or female babies. HUman nature can be sick which mostly resides in extreme groups or regimes.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey Izettl I have written an article that you might want to see.

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Radical-Feminism...

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      That is one of the sick things about humans some of us humans draw pleasure from death.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      It is sick but gendercide as entertainment for feminist is a rather long list of work I last checked it was like 15 or so books.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Dark proxy,

      Feminist gendercide against man is probably something I would consider sadist or just sick. Especially if they consider it entertaining.

      I don't doubt it doesn't exist I just attribute our society as gone wrong both male and female. Equally disturbing is the young men who got on YouTube to post something about raping a young girl at a party. There are some screwed up things on both sides of the spectrum but I fight for young men in the fact that they are losing their way...in a big way.

      Sam,

      I absolutely believe people can pick their own path even after really bad things happen to them. my husband was molested by a male babysitter and has since been an incredible father to our two kids and a great husband. If a woman has been raped and therefore hates men she has picked the wrong path. But I know so many women like this.

      It is a majority of men are those that go to war and a majority of men in society that are being degraded but the type of person the least likely to get help for any problems or issues is men. The old joke about men not asking for directions also applies to men not asking for help even as young boys this begins.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      Well I do wonder why feminist love gendercide against men as entertainment.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      All it takes, understandably is a woman who got raped to hate men.

      Well fortunately my aunt didn't end up like that she was raped when she was a teenager but she dosent hate men she married my uncle and they are still married today and their love is just as strong as ever. :)

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Well whenever there is war it's almost always the men who are expected to risk their lives that's how its always been and many of those men were killed in mass numbers.

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Dark proxy,

      Well from what I know on gendercide it's usually killing of females. Men still rule in other countries. Lol. I know plenty of feminists who have had male babies so not sure if we'll get to a point where males will be killed off in any form.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam, I think they feed off of each other and its what field of psychology would refer to as groupthink. This in the past has caused deaths and tragedy within many groups. I'm not sure whether some of these women are being raised like this or they get around a feminist group and get sucked in. Here's the deal, and I'm working on a hub right now about this, some men have behaved badly and all it takes, understandably is a woman who got raped to hate men. We've gone from a society where men typically got what they wanted...society was in their favor and now tables have turned and where does that leave them, we'll some behaving badly. Now...you got feminists who see the only way to keep the pendulum swung in their favor is to keep men down. And I say of course...why can't we all just get along and see that men and women have something to offer each other and society. Minorities, women included, feed off hate. It wouldn't be any better to hate feminists though, hey, they're not ideal but it would be best to counterattack with information that's why I like writing these hubs that get people thinking.

      I've seen it before...I used to work in a bar and a group of feminist gay women would frequent. Some women would come in and happen to be talking about their boss(a man) they hate or their boyfriend who cheated and suddenly the feminists are chiming in to the other group of women about how all men are like this, blah blah blah. And then they've converted other s to their feminist group.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Well if you want my opinion darkproxy I say those feminists are crazy. They have been driven so mad with hate they are willing to stoop down to the level of Nazi's to ge what they want. I also think they are cowards because they don't have the courage to accept the fact that women can be just as evil as a man can be.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      Izettl what is your opinion on feminist gendercide?

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Agreed Darkproxy

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      common sense is lost in the Sea of PC bullshit

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Many people find an enemy and attack. Also society has made it politically incorrect to attack any other protected group. Well (white)men are not a protected group. Men are acting in character- they have a drive and hormones that women don't so they go after things that women sit back and see as rude or demoralizing.

      Women are also stuck back in the 50's where women didn't have choices just like (I hate to say this) blacks are stuck back in days of slavery. Neither group will ever forgive or take personal responsibility.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Darkproxy-I think I may have the answer to that. They want to exterminate men because they genuinely believe the world would be more peacefull without men.

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 4 years ago from Ohio

      Why are feminists so obsessed on exterminating men

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ many of the older women who turned lesbian later in life were men haters. High school and the young ones prbably simply prefer girls, but I what the heck do they know being that young. I couldn't make up my mind about anything at that age! I think some of it is experimental too.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Well hopefully there are a ot more who don't hate men one can hope. I know not all feel that way some of my best friends in high school were lesbian and from my experience most don't hate them they just don't prefer them.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Hi Sam,

      These people sound strange or extremists perhaps. I don't even think that joking around about this is a good idea. I've been there Sam, seriously. I thought women ruled the world and men were no longer needed. It's a lie. Women are growing up like this and being told they don't need a man. It probably began as women who were abused by a man and told their daughters to stay away from men or that men only want one thing (sex) or men were bad. They may have wanted their girls to be safe but it bred a whole lot of damaging lies. Now this is the norm. There are a lot of late life (30+) lesbians and I think a lot of it has to do with hate for men. Sad.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl what do you think of gender studies because there was this woman on the internet who asked were all past men abusive oppressors and one woman said yes and another who was a man aso said yes and he said gender studies. The woman who said yes also came up an idea she said feminists I have an idea that could end most rape cases all males will be jailed until they turn 70 they will be escorted by armed guards to have sex with women to continue the human race I think we might have a shot at world peace. The man from earlier agreed with her and said gender studies again and a couple of commentors said why bother letting them have sex with the women just make them masturbate (on a side note her page had a quote on it I don't remember the whole thing or if she was talking about men and women but it said something about the foolish and wicked) and oh no don't let them have sex because the women may not like it and it would still count as rape. I don't know if these women were joking or not I swear I really wish something horrible would happen to these women these women (and the men who agree with them) have no humanity to assign humanity to these people is to give them something they don't deserve.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hi Izettl would you like to read my new article.

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Feminism-And-Vic...

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I absolutely agree. Usually the family fails to do anything for abused little ones. They either ignore it or don't pick up on the signs. Our family shouldn't fail us in the first place

    • Darkproxy profile image

      Darkproxy 5 years ago from Ohio

      The marines saved me but abused children shouldn't have to survive long enough to be saved they should be rescued immediately

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ well you could always do what I do and either focus on the good ro if you have thoughts you can't ge trid of then write it down. I do that on hubpages. It's my outlet.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      Hi izettl

      I know I can't judge them all I don't like judging people by groups I trully do not. Although I am not reading that stuff anymore the memories still stick with me. Well I am going to get a job soon so maybe that will help me take my mind off of it or maybe I just need to think more about what I enjoy rather than what I dislike. As my parents use to tell me you are your own worst enemy the one who can do the most damage to you is yourself.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Darkproxy~ men's best hope is the military and women's tends to be the sex industry. At least there is honor in the military, can't say the same for stripper or porn star.

      The Marines saved my husband's life I believe. It gave him confidence and a reason for being as well as substituted honor for shame- he was molested as a boy.

      Jeanine ~ Sam~ Defintely can't judge groups by their extreme members. I am proud to be white, but you won't see me joining the KKK any time soon. I don't have THAT kind of white pride that is based on hate for "others". .

      Like I've said before, we should not define ourselves by what we hate...rather we should define ourselves by what we love.

      I am a strong woman and in no way need to apologize for my gender in general. Men and women equally place hate upon each other and for various reasons- nobody is right nobody is wrong, I am just glad I do not live like that.

      As many men as I've been friends with who "play" women for the hell of it, I should hate men, but i know better. I do not judge all men because of them.

      I used to have a mentality of "not needing a man" because I fell subject to society's feminist lies. I thought men and relationships were just a distraction to my goals. I did not hate men, I just didn't need them. And when you think about it, not too much of a difference. The latter is just a more socially acceptable version and many women are raised to believe that by boosting ourselves up, we must step on the men to get there. Not true. I have realized that men and women each have value as who they are and yes we do need each other. We were meant to need each other. Together we are stronger.

      Like I've said before, feminism today is a political and/or personal agenda. It is more aggressive and has no direction.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 5 years ago

      @jeanine

      I will admit that I have met a couple of good feminists but unfortunately I have met more bad ones than good ones. I don't like to judge people as groups but I have not encountered many good feminists and the only side of feminism I have been exposed to is the ugly side. :(

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      you seem to be the fringe guys... there are a lot of feminist out here that are not far left but are moderate and they love men... so you have had a bad run... so don't judge all by a few bad apples...

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      Darkproxy 5 years ago from Ohio

      @shamowhamo I read about women trying eugenics afgainst men and boys it just proves how calis the feminist movment has become.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      Hi izettl

      Just curious there was this article I found here on the hubpage about patriarchl religions and one of the commentors said this.

      I think the underlying course of perpuating partriachy lies with socialization we get from birth starting with agencies such as family,religion,school and state.therefore this must change inorder to achiev da gender equality.

      What does that mean I am not really sure do you know.

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      Darkproxy 5 years ago from Ohio

      @Izettl I know a few porn stars by name that are molestation victims, mostly women namely since most molestation victims who are male tend to commit suicide, I don't know how many times I slit my wrists and made a nuse for myself. Do you think that feminism is worht saving as long as it focuses on men? Like why the hell is the military a man's best hope at making a different better life for himself

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Darkproxy~ there are so many reasons. People repeat things that are familiar. An abused person psychologically is attracted to abuse in one form or another. Some people don't know what "normal" is or looks like or acts like. It's not retarded it's just the way the mind works. I will bet you every single one of the girls you (may or may not) have watched on a porn have been sexually abused or molested. The mind has not formed yet for kids who have beend abused and they do not know how to properly deal with certain things that have happened to them. If a man molests his daughter for example them the girl has every right to blame him for as long as she wants.

      problem is men expect women to think like them and women expect the same for the man to think like them- it's a constant struggle until the hate goes away.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      @Darkproxy

      I really don't know but in case you are interested in knowing the was this one feminist who wrote an article about (as if talking about exterminating men was not enough) genetically modifying mens androgen to cure them of their imaginary aillment at the end of her article she just says we can do it with corn so why not with them (men) OH I DON'T KNOW MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE CORN IS A VEGATABLE AND MEN ARE HUMANS!!!! FOR GOD SAKE I SWEAR SOMETIMES I REALLY HATE FEMINISTS.

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      Darkproxy 5 years ago from Ohio

      Why is it women blame men for their mistakes I mean they choose to be with men who beat them and yet they keep falling for the same type of men. In one case this is utterly retarded I mean they whine about no good men to all the guys stuck in the friend zone.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      Thank you izettl. I do feel sorry for the ones who have been abused but some feminists are so extreme (such as separatist feminists) that I feel no sympathy for them at all. I read somewhere that there was this picture of a sailor kissing a nurse and appearently some feminists called the sailor rapist (I don't know if they were joking or serious) and you know what makes it even more stupid the sailor and nurse were not even real THEY WERE DARN STATUES FOR HEAVENS SAKE. Well anyway my aunt, uncle and dad say I am just wasting my intelligence on these women and that I am smarter then that so I need to settle down before I get to mad.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ there are certain generalizations that can be applied to both sexes. I think men are a little intimidated by strong women and some men are physically driven by their sexual appetite which can give them a bad name, but honestly it is their nature...in their hormones. I think my role in my husband's life is to keep him balanced- blending the physical with the spiritual and emotional and nurturing, etc. Like I've said before, men and women are good to balance each other out.

      I think many feminists and even lesbians have been victims...by men. In abuse or mind games. But I hate to sound offensive, I think sometimes women have let themselves fall prey. In an example of my husband's mom, she has been with several married men and she hates men yet she falls victim to the same guys who are bad people.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      Some feminists say that men hate feminism because they want submissive women well maybe some do but it's been my experience that men who hate feminism hate it because they genuinely do believe that it discriminates men which seems to be exactly the case these days. They keep saying things like all men are misogynist suspects and that all men are the same and that we all want the same thing (sex) AGAIN they are making generalisations about men they don't even know they dare say there is no sexism towards men and yet every day they say and do things that if it were about women it would immediately be labeled sexist. That just shows how ignorant women like them are.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      sam~ your quote is correct. Others shouldn't have to suffer for one's agenda no matter what its based on- sexism, ageism, racism. even blacks sometimes automatically hate white people, but hate is just repeating their own wounds ot their ancestors. Feminists are also not fighting a real fight. They have illusions that everyone is out to get them as with all extremists. I view them as bullies.

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      samowhamo 5 years ago

      @ izettl

      I have seen the really ugly side of feminism and so I don't have a very high opinion of feminists. Feminists are always saying oh no we don't hate men and we don't discriminate men well I would like to believe that but I can't not after all I have heard of them. Even if there really is no sexism towards men as feminists claim that does not make it any less offensive. I have heard feminists talk about exterminating all or most men and as a man that use to scare me almost to the point of suicide (I don't feel that way anymore now thankfully) if that is what feminism has come to maybe feminism is not worth it.

      Equality is not worth dehumanizing other people. (A quote from myself)

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ you've probably seen the really extreme/bad side of feminism. I think any agenda based on the foundation of hate...is wrong. You should be proud to be a man...never apologize for that. It is a duty and responsibility and hopefully you will become or are a gentleman. i see nothing wrong with you trying to understand this topic rather than automatically hate women in general. I am glad you have a questioning mind.

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      Sam 5 years ago

      @ jeanine

      I am not against women having opinions or powere or anything that men have I just sometimes find some of the things they talk about hard to understand but maybe that is because I have Asperger's Syndrome so it is sometimes a little hard for me catch on to things but I really mean no harm. I have heard feminists say and do some hateful things that really scare me and sometimes even make me hate myself just for being male. I do want equality for men and women what I don't want is what women don't want to be hated for my gender.

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      Jeanine 5 years ago

      Actually all politics go to the lowest common ground... so in the end you have no one of integrity running the movement... or parties as in congress... you have a lower value being propagated to the masses... I was there many generations ago... that sounds so funny to me... actually it would be more human for the woman Sam... if we didn't have to be expected to give it up... maybe we could be more giving in our creative ideas to help you solve the problems of war and famine... How we might feel so little pressure from the male that we would put forth our ideas of peace and the ability to teach love... as we taught you... and although I definitely see the worth in a beautiful mans opinion from a beautiful man like yourself... you words are very comforting to say the least when my Alpha flower is in bloom.... mmmmm .... and although your words stir that inner most sensual feelings that every red blooded American girl has felt, I can see where the feminist thought comes from... you can see it also , right dear... 2 Lesbiens love children just as you do sweet heart... they just don't love them the same way as you... for example they don't put judgements on them for their creative behavior... and that includes sensual behaviors as well.... not quite so purtian... I'm sure you don't have a bias either except when it comes to behavior you are not comfortable with.... which is normal for most men... like you don't kiss guys even when you are little, but women have a different take on that, we kiss each other and are very much more socially liberal than men are... it's what you guys think is so sexy about girl on girl...lol... it's illy to us because we have been kissing each other since we were two...lol...

      I think that's what women will do when they begin to run things...there will be a lot more laughter and a lots more calling BS just BS... I think they will want trophy husbands just as some of you guys... not you Sam, you sound like a great guy, but some guys still have that trophy wife thing...lol...but I really think women will do a better job when they can be themselves... 3. again the male part of eroticism is penatration.... these girls are just women who have decided that they don't want to be f&*ked any more... All women come to this opinion, it's just when it the question... most older women do not give it up as easily as when they were younger... these women that are causing you distress are just younger women who came to the same conclusion, only earlier in their lives... understand... I'm sure you do... you are a smart one and you'll do well when things continue to change for the better for women in these coming years... a lot of these women just want to live their lives with out leaning on a man... they want to stand on their own two feet...

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      Sam 5 years ago

      This was once an exclusive group of people who originally stood against that type of hypocrisy. Some of the issues they've chosen in recent years are petty and idle, a disgrace to serious issues that face women as a whole. Many generations ago feminism stood for dignity in being a woman. They were not trying to get or take anything from any other group, but now much of feminist thoughts and agendas focus on taking from other groups to achieve their goals.

      A few issues that some feminists focus on that I find somewhat pathetic are 1 some radical feminists want to change the way people have sex because they think that penatration is dominating and unequal and they want to make it more humane they call it 2 some lesbian feminists may oppose pro-creation because they think that motherhood roles are a social construct supposedly to give women gender roles and 3 some lesbian feminists say that eroticism (although I am not sure in what sense they mean) is male identified (they call it a more cleansed version of lesbianism or something like that). How are these serious problems for women how can sex get any more humane then it is now (when consensual) how is pro-creation a problem when nature has designed us and almost every living creature on earth to do that and how exactly is eroticism male identified don't women feel that to. How exactly are these problems we see other living things do these things all the time isn't it only natural for humans to do those things if we were not then why did nature design us to do these things nature does not make mistakes.

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Firsthand, I know that women desperately wanted in the workforce, got there, and now many ccompanies do not know how to accommodate working mothers without sacrifcing something to do with the business operations. The success in women working would be for businesses truly accpeting mothers, which they typically don't. So when it comes to the workforce, it is still a man's world (maybe this means wome nare second-class) and it leads to women acting like men at work and sacrificing their families. The work-family life balance does not exist in the U.S- other countries have a better understanding of this than we do in U.S.

      I don't believe in equality- bottom line, people are not all equal. Men and women are not equal nor should be. But they are equally needed and beneficial. They both have inherant qualities that make them different yet beneficial to each other. However, we have women trying more than ever to be like men and I think it will push us back in society because men are now put in a position of fighting for being themselves without feeling women want to take over or dominate.

      Personally, I get a lot of backlash from men in general. I was driving in my car one day with my daughter and I let a man driving cut in front of me but later down the road he comes to a complete stop and I have no idea why but it looks like I might be rear ended from someone else so I honk at him. He proceeds to turn around look in my car and notice (I'm a woman by myself with a child) and gets out of his car to come threaten me...in the middle of the street. No way he would have done that had my husband been with me. I noticed couple of guys walking in middle of parking lot and they noticed a car coming (mine) they turned around and looked right at me and proceeded to walk down the middle of the road so I couldn't drive. This happens all the time and I know some blacks would have the same complaints too, but honestly I believe it would happen less if blacks didn't push the notion of racism in whites faces (for example) or women/feminists push their agenda in men's faces.

      If women lose their other abilities and things to offer as women, then we will increasingly become objectified as only having one use to men...sex. The very thing feminists don't want to happen will be what will happen... because of them.