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Should Democrats Move Far Left and Mirror the Far Right Republican Party?

Updated on August 17, 2018

Should Democrats Move Far Left and Mirror the Far Right Republican Party?

The Republican party steadily moved much farther to the Right after the 2008 presidential election of Barack Obama. The Democrats then passed several significant pieces of legislation in the first two years of the Obama administration. The 2010 Affordable Health Care act was the most prominent piece of legislation enacted during this period.

The far Right elements of the Republican party were furious over the passage of that Act and created the Tea Party faction in response to it. Their political energy was immense and the establishment leaders of the Republicans rode this wave to political landslides in the 2010 and 2014 mid-term elections.

The 2012 election saw President Obama hold on to power but by a significantly smaller margin. The surge of this Tea Party element culminated with the election of Donald Trump as President in 2016.

Democrats have been scrambling to find answers and new policies in response to that election debacle. They have been winning many special elections in the past year and a half but poll numbers have been narrowing lately. It seems that their political fortunes have been rising or falling only in conjunction with President Trump's poll numbers and public antics.

Recent Democratic primaries have revealed a new trend though not yet a wave within the party. Some candidates have been running as Democratic Socialists and have been faring quite well. Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez's victory in New York over a House of Representatives establishment leader was the most notable development in this regard.

Will this nascent trend within the Democratic party continue and grow? If so, what will a new Democratic party look like? I will try to answer these questions and more within this Hub.

Finally I will also give you my take on how I feel this drama should unfold as well as what messages the Democratic party should be giving to the American people. It is high time that the Democrats begin acting and not just reacting on the political stage.

Let me begin by stating that this trend of far Left leaning candidates winning Democratic primaries has only barely begun. More often than not these candidates have lost their primaries. The second prominent victory for this group beyond Ms. Ocasio-Cortez was former NAACP president Ben Jealous winning the Democratic gubernatorial primary in Maryland.

It is also important to note that most political movements start small, suffer losses, persevere, and then break out into victories. The likelihood that this movement will grow and succeed is bolstered by the stark absence of any institutional Democratic message beyond opposing President Trump at every turn.

Another factor that could help to strengthen this Democratic socialist movement is its direct contrast to the Tea Party movement and its messaging. The primary Tea Party messages during the Obama administration were its anti-spending and anti-budget deficits platform.

Anti-immigration stances developed later on for the Tea Party. Evil enemies, perceived or real, became like catnip to this group. Donald Trump fueled this anger with his endorsement and magnification of the "birther" movement that questioned President Obama's citizenship.

Trump recognized that this Tea Party group had built President Obama into a huge enemy for them. He ran with this and became their hero and champion. They actually had no idea what his political views or policies were but that did not matter. The Tea Party now had a leader who was unabashedly loud and abrasive as well as willing to pander to their fears.

I have just written this brief history of the relationship between the Tea Party and Donald Trump to highlight both the positives and the negatives of these political movements and viewpoints. This is especially true of the more extreme movements or those based on personalities.

My belief is that this Democratic socialist movement will grow within the Democratic party. Its energy and efforts to include all groups while not demonizing others will attract a wide array of voters and this is a welcome message.

The historic amount of female candidates with the vast majority running as Democrats will help to fuel the Democratic socialist movement while also bolstering voter turnout. Minority groups have also greatly increased their ranks of candidates this election cycle. All of this is very encouraging for Democratic prospects. That is as long as their message remains a positive one.

It appears to me that this new wave of Democratic socialists primarily concentrate on tax and spending policies that will help to aid all economic groups but primarily the lower and middle classes. These policies include rescinding the latest tax cuts and even raising them on the wealthy and corporations.

Universal healthcare via medicare expansion for all and student debt relief are among their primary policy goals. These economic platforms mirror the Tea Party of 2010 though they move spending in exactly the opposite direction.

They also attempt to address many Trump administration policies that they consider to be especially disturbing. One area that they are most seriously focused on is the Trump administration policy of vigorously detaining and deporting immigrants who are seeking asylum from their despotic countries.

Many of these asylum seekers have had their families separated as well as their young children removed and isolated from them. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez and other Democratic socialists have been calling for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to be abolished because of these actions.

They are advocating this position because ICE has been the primary federal agency that has enforced this Trump administration immigration policy. I believe this stance is a symbol of their opposition to this Trump administration policy. I will deal with this subject later but I believe they are targeting the weapon not the perpetrators who are the President and Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

The main themes of these new Democratic socialists aim at spreading the wealth and benefits of American society while also protecting everyone from the excesses of capitalism. Many of these protections involve implementing stronger regulations on business to protect Americans from fraud as well as the harming of our environment.

Let me turn now to the critical question that Democrats face this year and beyond. Should the Democratic party as a whole turn their platforms much more liberal as the Democratic socialists want or should should they retain their current policy stances?

This is not an easy question to answer. As is often the case, my answer lies between these two paths. Upholding the positive goals of both groups while placing a much lower emphasis on negative ones is my guiding solution to this dilemma.

The Democratic party currently is having a difficult time projecting a clear and positive set of policy goals. They know that they vehemently oppose most of the Trump administration policies but they fail to voice positive messages in response to them.

A clear and potent opposition platform is needed to maximize Democratic electoral gains in the November mid-term elections. The Democratic socialists offer this type of positive message but some of their points of emphasis are problematic for many parts of the American electorate.

My take on how the Democrats can synthesize the two messages is to adopt most of the Democratic socialist goals and then advocating for sensible and less extreme steps to begin our way to those goals. This political path makes more sense in my view because many people in this country are still quite susceptible to the traditional Republican charges of socialism or even communism.

One clear illustration of this political path that I am advising for is to reduce the age for Medicare eligibility to 55 from 65. This was a serious proposal made during the Affordable Healthcare negotiations in 2009. It was dismissed at the time because it was deemed too extreme and expensive but its time may have finally arrived.

Medicare is a widely admired social program that successfully covers an ever increasing swath of our population due to the aging of the "baby boom" generation. Why not experiment by extending this program and see if it fares as successfully as it historically has succeeded? Most of America will not see this as socialism and will welcome this increased coverage for many of their aging family members.

This same incremental compromise of action could occur in regards to the immigration issue. The Democratic socialists have been urging for the disbanding of ICE because of the odious Trump administration policies implemented to arrest and deport those seeking asylum here.

It is true that this unit has has been enforcing these laws in draconian and heartless ways. Unfortunately they are only the weapon that Attorney General Sessions uses to carry out his heartless edicts. The Trump administration will most likely only create a new weapon or agency if ICE is abolished.

I believe a more effective and less polarizing policy would be to promise the creation of legislation to outlaw Trump administration policies that separate families and deport asylum seekers without due process.

One other extreme and premature goal is the impeachment of President Trump. No one has been more alarmed and disgusted by his policies than I. His hateful rhetoric has appalled me even more. Impeachment is usually a last resort political action. It cannot and should not be taken lightly.

The Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller has been conducting a thorough and wide ranging investigation into Trump administration and campaign collusion with Russia over 2016 election interference. He is also investigating any illegal actions that may have been conducted ancillary to this incident.

Democrats would be well advised to hold up on any impeachment talks or actions until Mueller is finished with his investigation and submits a report and or files charges. They will then have all the pertinent evidence and a much more compelling case to show to the American people.

A premature impeachment would also hamstring the Mueller investigation. The political fallout from the President Bill Clinton impeachment should give the Democrats considerable "food for thought". The American people deemed this impeachment unwarranted by dealing the Republicans serious 1998 mid-term election losses. Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich paid for this political misstep by being forced out as Speaker.

President Donald Trump and his administration have dealt the Democrats a very strong hand heading into the November elections. This is true both on the national scene and in local elections. Mid-term elections are historically good ones for the party out of power and the President has accentuated this trend. His policies and especially his rhetoric have turned off much of the electorate including a large percentage of independents.

The Democrats should not get over confident and over play their electoral hand. The economy is strong which is a head wind that could and should buoy Republican election prospects.

The Democrats need to offer positive policies to the public that will uplift all classes of people. Not just for the wealthy and corporations. They also need to reply to the President's unhinged personal Twitter attacks with positive replies thus portraying themselves in a much brighter light in stark contrast to him.

I believe that Democrats should not advocate for extreme policies in this election cycle but rather for strong steps to much better conditions for all Americans. The president and other Republicans will portray them as dangerous liberals or socialists. This is a tried and true tactic used by Republicans effectively since the President Richard Nixon administration. President Trump will relish going into a frenzy attacking them for these positions.

The vast majority of Americans are getting tired of the petty antics and nasty rhetoric from the President and his spokespeople. They are looking for positive messages that they can clearly see benefiting them but not scaring them. Smaller concrete proposals at this time will show benefits that all can believe in. This will open up the path for wider and deeper proposals that Democratic socialists and even rank and file Democrats will believe in and champion.

Sensible campaigning and then governing will be a clear contrast to this dysfunctional administration. Republicans who bought in to these policies or simply ignored his antics will be shown in sharp contrast to this positive Democratic message. This is the Democratic party that I want to see this election cycle and beyond.

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    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      You are very welcome, Leslie. I enjoy and seek civil discourses.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Leslie McCowen 

      2 weeks ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Thank you for a civil discourse!

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I do not think the Dems have to nominate an older white man. They need to nominate the candidate with the most solid policy views who appeals to all. I like what Nike and Levis are doing. Companies need to stop fearing backlash and do the right thing. I do not think Trump or the Republicans are done yet. Unfortunately they are far from it.They have the Court, Senate, and many state legislatures. Democrats must all come out and vote this November and EVERY election. This way they retain power especially over redistricting. Thank you again for your comments, Leslie.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Leslie McCowen 

      2 weeks ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yeah, my mom thinks dems will have to nominate an older white man for prez....i like Kennedy, but its too soon for that. Still too much ptsd i think.

      Btw, after Kapernak became face of Nike (female goddess), Levis jeans just cut ties with the NRA.

      Just as clearly, i think Trump is done. Along with the Evangelicals and all these hate disguised as love movements.

      We as humans know love when we feel it.

      Its been sorely missing.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Thank you for your comments, Leslie. It certainly does look like the year of women and minorities. It's about time. They are giving the Democrats a lot of energy and new ideas. I would not write off men entirely though. They will probably still have their share of power. Hopefully this election cycle will keep them honest.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Leslie McCowen 

      2 weeks ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Women and people of color are the new power generation. I love Capuano, but its time for white men to go. I only hope the new generation will be just and decent.....not get punch drunk with power and $$ like what usually happens.

      White guys will be the minority..... should be interesting to see how they deal w it. So far, its not been stellar. (threatening with guns)

      Age of Aquarius.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Yes, Eric, I saw that. Ayanna Bradley defeated Michael Capuano, a 10 term congressman. It does show the left turn Democrats are taking continues but she probably is not much different ideologically from Capuano. This upset may show more that this year will be the year for women and minorities especially among Democrats. You are also correct that her district will probably suffer in the short term due to her lack of influence due to no seniority. That is unless Pelosi likes her and wants to give her more power than usual. I do believe that the Democrats will regain power in the House but not the Senate. Thank you for your comments.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      2 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Howard I think we are seeing your answer in Mass. Michael Capuano ousted by a new socialist. (I do not mean socialist in a bad way - just a description. Aren't we already a bunch socialist, personally I like my benefits therefrom)

      And here is this problem and argument about term limits.

      My rep. who I have voted for every time is a dem. Susan Davis. She does not vote or act in my conservative leaning way usually. But has power and uses it yet doing so in a reserved respectful way. I don't want her to leave our district because of her it is in great shape - mainly due to length of service.

      This Ayanna Pressly gal will not have Michael Capuano's sway.

      Move further left and lose seniority rights and power.

      Unless redistricting moves blue up a notch it will take a have a decade, to regain power.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, I am not pestering you. You are commenting on my Hub and I am responding. I do not swoop into your Hubs and bombard you with my opinions. I commented on one of your Hubs and have yet to hear back. It is interesting to me that when I try to respond to you calmly and with reason you attack me with voluminous opinions that you portray as facts. When I change the way I respond to you, and become a bit more confrontational, you complain of my pestering and wish me to stop. That is the classic portrayal of a true bully. I expected better from you. I am disappointed.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Please read your latest comments, T. You have gone completely off the rails. I recognize that when someone asks you to speak respectfully and treat others with respect, you consider that an attack. Also, do not presume what I believe in regards to God and religion. You have expressed views that are totally dogmatic and close minded. You do not know me and you read my Hubs and only try to read into them what you think I believe. Open your mind, T. I am not saying you need to agree with me. Simply listen to myself and others who espouse different views.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      Stop pestering me, I am not going to comment on your articles anymore. Don't beg, it is a sign of weakness.

      Walk through that Valley everyone keeps talking about.

      Stop threatening us, we won't comment no matter what you do!

      And please take that medication for the acute case of TDS. If you can't afford it we will start a gofund for you.

      NO means NO!

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      Or the truth, which you wouldn’t recognize if God gave it to you himself (oh that’s right, his name isn’t worthy of recognition by your party according to you), our looney hub isn’t even interesting to your fellow loons.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, You have completely lost your mind. No one else wants to comment here except for you and T. That is because you both come on to Hubs and attempt to terrorize us with your constant litany of ideological spam that is meaningless. You rigorously bombard me with so called facts that are merely opinions. I have brought up the point that we simply have differing opinions and you insist yours are facts. You are a true Trumpian. Now you are going to turn and run away with your tail between your legs. I expected better. I shouldn't have. Shame on you.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      You have explained nothing to me in any detail of your views, T, except for your hatred of anyone that opposes your views. You ask why any sane individual would spend any time stating your views on my Hub. I guess, according to your logic, you are insane. Furthermore, I have and never will delete anyone. You see, T, I am a fervent proponent of freedom of speech and a freedom of a vigorous exchange of ideas. Unfortunately you always immediately discount my ideas or anyone who disagrees with you. My civility is real and your tone is barbaric. Anyone with an open mind would readily recognize that fact. Good day to you, sir.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      TSAD

      Howard has gone full TDS and until he takes his medication I would leave him alone.

      NO one else cares to comment on his article. So when we don't comment this article will fade away faster than Hillary lost the election.

      The End!

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      I have already explained every point I have made and in every case you have misstated what i have said to mean nothing i said, you accuse me of doing what you do, and any objective person can see if they read the comments here that you are a twisted illogical and brain washed left wing liberal who uses despicable liberal tactics in discussion, will never admit you are wrong or that you behave in this manner and refuse to answer simple questions. It is obvious as i and brad have demonstrated that you are not capable of a fruitful debate. So why would any sane person waste any more time here, except for that you don't delete comments that reveal your worst qualities which I actually think for the sake of your feigned civility you should be deleting them.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, Obviously you have become unhinged. Or is that more unhinged. For the umpteenth time, the crux of my Hub is that I do believe, and proudly, that the Democratic party should move Left but in a politically expedient way. Your communistic reply to me means you have nothing left except name calling. It is unfortunate because I admire your energy and attempt to be detailed. Unfortunately you have retreated into an area where you will not truly listen to others and will then bombard them with supposed facts that are nothing more than personal bigoted beliefs. I truly believe you have the capability to be better than this but alas I do not not think you will ever try. Take care. Thank you for your comments.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Welcome back, T. Let me ask you what is your political platforms. I have never read anything from you beyond your hatred for others and dismissing those you consider wrong. Please try to give me your most important beliefs within the categories of economics, foreign policy, and social issues. Try, if you can, to not resort to name calling and hatred of others. I will be happy then to conduct a fruitful debate between yourself and I. Please feel free to do this in my comments section or in a Hub. I will be happy to engage with you on that basis. Have a wonderful day and I look forward to your ideas and policies.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      To answer the question of your hub.

      Move farther to the left? and then move left again.

      Don't give me that crap, all I did was ask you to give an argument to your position and all I got was red herrings, and condescension.

      Calling you an anti Trumper, and an UnAmerican is not name calling it is naming your political position.

      Go left man go left and there is no end to how far left we can go.

      Right comrade Howard.

      A vote for the democrat party is a vote for illegal Aliens. The democrats the virtual Mexican political party.

      :) :) :)

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      And Howard never resorts to name calling, he just specializes in character assasination.

      Howard~ “I dealt with those such of yourself during my high school days but obviously you never progressed beyond that. I actually pity you. You are a small man with no ideas. Just hatred. I have dealt with ignorance my whole life that you portray and have dispatched your type easily because you are no challenge. So please, struggle to move that rock in front of your cave, and crawl back in. That is where you and your ilk belong.”

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Take care, Brad. You always revert to name-calling and bullying. I hope you can find a way to become better than that. Thank you for your comments.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      You call this answering my questions.

      You will die in retail because you champion mediocrity.

      bye comrade

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, Your comments regarding socialism and possible degrees of it shows yourself to be totally doctrinaire in your economic views. Saying all socialism is socialism with no variants proves your myopia. There are degrees of socialism in our country and all others. We are vastly different than Venezuela and Cuba in our degrees of socialistic aspects in our economies. Not even close including in my aspirations for our economy. I find your refusal to even attempt to see this and close yourself off from anything other than your pure capitalism view is quite sad. Also my policies are not taking taxes from the American people and giving it to illegal immigrants. You are so obsessed with this problem that it borders on psychosis. Finally you wanted example of successes in countries with socialistic components, well since I consider all countries having these components then the list is long. Therefore the U.S. is a success as well as Canada, most European countries, as well as many others.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      You are the one in circles as you choose to cherry pick and not answer my comments.

      Socialism is socialism there is no variant.

      There you go when you run out of argument you resort to condescension.

      How does your socialism differ from Venezuelan, or Cuban socialism?

      What truth is that?

      How does taking from the American paycheck to pay taxes to give free things to illegal aliens benefit America or Americans?

      America is not a commune? Where is your model to show that socialism at any degree is successful?

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      That is quite alright, Brad. We are going around in circles and not covering new ground. That bores me. Your cherry picking view is my redundancy view. My views are moderating socialistic elements added to our capitalist system to protect the American people. Your socialism accusation proves your ignorance on the matter. With you it is all black and white. The truth is that all economies have a balance of the two. It just depends on what combo. Thank you for your comments.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      Until you respond to my comments and stop cherry picking them, I will imitate you in ignoring your deflections of my comments.

      BTW

      Your comment is blah blah, and the democrats want socialism to be American's solution.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, Firstly I will respond to the parts of your comments that deserve responses not the ones that are repetition or attacks. As for what positive platform policies, I addressed this in my Hub. Reinforce and expand the Affordable Healthcare Act, repeal the Trump tax cuts that bolster the wealthy, reinstall all the Scott Pruitt deregulations, reaffirm our committments to NAFTA, TPP, and NATO. Read my Hub again for more. Trump is not his own man. He continually Tweets out FOX News stories and claims them as his own. As to what regulations, I do not have to list them. You are not the referee of my Hubs or comments. An example is his stripping of regulations on the coal industry which pollutes our air and must be phased out. It is an existential threat to our survival. The gutting of Dodd-Frank which is setting up another big recession or worse. Eliminating Obama's higher fuel standards. Is that enough for you right now? As for his personal attacks, they are on Sessions for recusal, on Schumer, Waters, Pelosi, Harley Davidson or on anyone who defies him. As for what countries hate us or at least him, all of Europe, Canada, and most of the Far East. You are right, we do not have to be liked but we do need to be respected and now we are not. Finally Trump is not a centrist and is not trying to pull the parties together. Trump wants everyone to agree with him and praise him. This narcissistic man wants to be the absolute ruler of America. That is why he admires despots like Putin and North Korea's Kim.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      T, When I attempt to conduct a civil dialogue with you, you immediately dismiss me as a Liberal and I have only Democratic talking points. That shows to me that you are totally close minded and have no interest in dialogue. As for the Democratic going Far Left, they certainly have not. They are moving that way, which I state in my Hub, and I also say they should move in moderation for now. As for the Cuomo comment, you make an observation and use it as an attack.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Eric, I will and have given it my best shot in replying to Brad's voluminous comments. I suspect Black Friday is the biggest sales day but Labor Day is fairly big. Finally, I like to stress the positive even when negativity heads my way. Thank you for your comments.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      So Brad, what did I say? no substance, his best comment is yes he responds in talking points because they are grrrrreat!

      He is grrreat at ignoring what we say and turning his attention to a made up tactic that he is being attacked personally. The only thing I said was “if you think your party isn’t on the left and going farther to the left you really need not your hearing but your brain examined - not an attack just an observation.”

      I said that wasn’t an attack just an observation, so why is it he can say Cuomo’s comment that America was never great was out of context because HE says it was inartful but when I say my comment was an observation not an attack he won’t accept that - he is nothing but a hypocrite.

      But I’ll tell you why, so that he can crawl into the gutter and say this to me.

      Howard~ “I dealt with those such of yourself during my high school days but obviously you never progressed beyond that. I actually pity you. You are a small man with no ideas. Just hatred. I have dealt with ignorance my whole life that you portray and have dispatched your type easily because you are no challenge. So please, struggle to move that rock in front of your cave, and crawl back in. That is where you and your ilk belong.”

      That’s taking a high road? Nope just an excuse to not reply to comments or questions with substance.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      2 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Howard I have no idea how you can respond to Brad's Article sized comments and I have no idea how he has the time to write them with a consciousness.

      Is it Labor day or Black Friday that has the most actual in person sales?

      And speaking of that retail are we buying all the hate? I guess we vote against and not for. I just cannot do that.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      "Brad and T, I am glad you two can have such an outstanding lovefest on my Hub. Or is that hatefest? I can't tell. As for talking points, they are not just Democratic, they are well thought over and studied. Why do you two have to dismiss anyone out of hand who does not agree with you? I am going to bed now but I am earnestly waiting for your answers to my comments tomorrow. Or is it just vitriol? Probably is. Thank you for your comments and increased Hub traffic."

      B:

      What have you provided here in your comment here?

      ------------------------------------------

      Howard Schneider

      Welcome back to you also, T. Howard did not respond until now because he was at work. Unfortunately, retail does not believe in holidays. So do not assume anything until answers come back. Oh, I forgot, you do not listen to anyone unless they agree with you.

      B:

      I made a comment that translate to wait and see what Howard says.

      It is not agreement that is important, it is a lack of an argument made by you that would give anyone a reason to agree with you.

      --------------------------------------

      Howard Schneider

      I so missed you, Brad. I could not stop crying. Firstly, I don't think you actually read my Hubs or comments

      B:

      Is this relevant. I took your entire article and commented on each and every part. I read your comments but I don't find anything that is meaningful

      ---------------------

      . I wrote that the Democrats need to provide a positive platform and not just bash Trump

      B:

      You didn't read my comment, where I asked what positive platform and gave examples.

      --------------------------

      . As for you limiting campaigns to just 6 months, I would be all for it. I think the Supreme Court would consider it limiting speech

      B:

      What does the time have to do with free speech? It has to do with how the government is run. The government stops when campaigns go on and on. Look what happened in 2007 and 2008 when the entire congress was campaigning. No one was running the country, and the economy collapsed. The people campaigning didn't think that the economy was an important issue.

      ---------------------------------------

      . Trump is dysfunctional because anyone who disagrees with him is then met with a sophomoric Tweet from the narcissistic Trump

      B:

      Why do you call that dysfunctional? It is not anyone that disagrees with him, it is also those that attack him with their words. What you have strung together in words is itself sophomoric. But you are not the president. It takes minutes for president Trump to Tweet, and then he spends the rest of the time running the country and accomplishing things.

      ------------------------

      . He only listens to those who agree with him. Are you 2 related?

      B:

      He is the president and he makes his own decisions, what is the problem. And another sophomoric from you. Is that supposed to make a point?

      -------------------

      His policies such as the tax cuts and regulation eliminations benefit only the wealthy and corporations.

      B:

      The tax cut benefited all taxpayers, and who do you think employs people in the country if not the wealthy and the corporations. If they don't prosper you don't have your job.

      As for regulations, you need to discuss them with references as to what they were and why eliminating was bad.

      ----------------------------

      He is only duping his supporters.

      B:

      What is there to comment here. You not only dis president Trump, you dis half the voters in the country. Did this constitute a valid point?

      --------------------------

      His personal attacks

      B:

      What personal attacks, on who and when?

      Without that reference this is just a rant.

      --------------------------

      have also made us a hated country in the world and also a laughingstock.

      B:

      Hated by what countries, and what did president Trump do that made them go from liking us to hating us? Did they like us before? and if they did, why did they like us?

      BTW, we don't need countries to like us. We need countries to be fair with us and not just use us. Whether we are liked or hated, we are now for the first time in decades being respected, because of president Trump.

      -------------------------

      Yes, you are right that Democrats in Congress can only oppose Trump but that is because they have no power to do anything else.

      B:

      The job of congress is to honor the oath they took when they got into office. And by resisting president Trump and doing nothing for the people and the country they are not doing their sworn job.

      You say they have no power but they have focused all the power they have to fight for illegal aliens. How does that help the people that voted for them, and how does that help America and Americans? This is not the first time I asked you this question.

      --------------------------

      On the campaign trail they need to have a positive message. I agree that the 2 parties have swung a lot in their respective ideological directions. But as far as Trump being a centrist. The only thing he agrees with is that he is right and that He is the Center of the universe. Anyone who disagrees is attacked. Thank you for returning with further comments."

      B:

      I keep making comments and asking questions, but when are you going to be serious and provide some answers.

      Your comments are all in the form as this last one.

      "The only thing he agrees with is that he is right and that He is the Center of the universe. Anyone who disagrees is attacked. "

      B:

      You provide only a generic opinion without even referencing how that statement is factual, much less true. Making categorical statements like this are never true, because categorical statements are exaggerations.

      --------------------------------------------

      For example when I say something like Trump is a centrist. I can say that he was not a politician when all of these current issues were allowed to become problems. It is many of the current nested members in congress that were responsible for that.

      He is a centrist because he is not liked by democrats and republicans because they want to protect their establishment. President Trump wants to normalize government so that it can work for the people and the country.

      They don't want him to ruin their power games, and that is because we have let them nest in congress til they die. Normally, you would allow the voter to perform term limits, but the voters, especially the loyal party voters are just sheep and they follow the party line. And the dems and republicans have divergent party lines and that creates gridlock.

      President Trump has tried to bring the two closer together, but all of the democrats just want to impeach him. They wanted impeach him from even before the election, and they have tried dozens of ways since then to impeach him.

      Their problem is that they can't impeach him for their reason, they have to impeach him according to the constitution. And they haven't found any constitutional basis to do it. Their reason to impeach him is simply because he trounced Hillary Clinton in the election. She spent $1.2 billion while he spent $600 million and they need to have something face saving, and that is having Trump impeached.

      Hillary Clinton is a two time presidential candidate loser and that is an undeniable fact. She lost the democrat primary in 2008 to a virtual unknown unaccomplished senator, and they she barely beat Bernie Sanders for the democrat primary. The she loses to a non politicians in his first try for the presidency.

      Be honest, that is what this whole anti Trump is about.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad and T, I am glad you two can have such an outstanding lovefest on my Hub. Or is that hatefest? I can't tell. As for talking points, they are not just Democratic, they are well thought over and studied. Why do you two have to dismiss anyone out of hand who does not agree with you? I am going to bed now but I am earnestly waiting for your answers to my comments tomorrow. Or is it just vitriol? Probably is. Thank you for your comments and increased Hub traffic.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Welcome back to you also, T. Howard did not respond until now because he was at work. Unfortunately, retail does not believe in holidays. So do not assume anything until answers come back. Oh, I forgot, you do not listen to anyone unless they agree with you.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I so missed you, Brad. I could not stop crying. Firstly, I don't think you actually read my Hubs or comments. I wrote that the Democrats need to provide a positive platform and not just bash Trump. As for you limiting campaigns to just 6 months, I would be all for it. I think the Supreme Court would consider it limiting speech. Trump is dysfunctional because anyone who disagrees with him is then met with a sophomoric Tweet from the narcissistic Trump. He only listens to those who agree with him. Are you 2 related? His policies such as the tax cuts and regulation eliminations benefit only the wealthy and corporations. He is only duping his supporters. His personal attacks have also made us a hated country in the world and also a laughingstock. Yes, you are right that Democrats in Congress can only oppose Trump but that is because they have no power to do anything else. On the campaign trail they need to have a positive message. I agree that the 2 parties have swung a lot in their respective ideological directions. But as far as Trump being a centrist. The only thing he agrees with is that he is right and that He is the Center of the universe. Anyone who disagrees is attacked. Thank you for returning with further comments.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Thank you, Jack. I welcome a vigorous discussion of ideas. It is needed in this time where all sides are attacking each other. More listening is needed also.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      Why wait Brad, you know he speaks in Democrat talking points that say and do nothing, I quote what he thinks are “policies”

      “My policies for the Democratic party and for our country, yes our country not just yours, is a government that serves all. Not just the wealthy corporations.” Wow that’s a policy? That’s a talking point! How to do it is a policy.

      “A government that will reinforce our social safety net and not destroy it.”

      Again a talking point not how to do it”

      “A government that will embrace all peoples and not one, such as this Trump administration, that preys on those that seek a yesteryear of hate and bigotry.”

      Another talking point which is a lie and certainly not a policy!

      I honestly don’t think Howard knows what a policy is. All he had to do is look at Trumps accomplishments, policies that are working for every citizen in America and that is why, just as he does with me, he has to personally attack Trump because he has TDS and just can’t help himself. He is more concerned about how Trump looks to the rest of the world (thanks mostly to fake news media) which envies America to start with than the multitude of good things he is accomplishing for the country

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Tsadjatko

      Unfortunately, Howard isn't saying anything right now.

      Let us wait and see how he answers the questions that I posed to him in my last comment.

      Thanks

    • profile image

      Tsadjatko 

      2 weeks ago

      Brad, What Howard and the Democrats, the media don’t understand, because they are so blinded by hate, is that all the Trump bashing is already hurting them, even more sane Democrat strategists have said so, and Howard wants to keep it up, step it up when if they really want to win they need to stop it altogether and put first policies that will work which they don’t have. Higher taxes, impeaching Trump, trying to undo what Trump has and is doing is not anything that will get them elected and all the TDS simply strengthens the resolve of the 63 million who voted for him. So they are left with bashing a president who is delivering on every campaign promise he made - that isn’t going to get any democrat elected and will continue to turn off voters to the democrats, they already can’t stand the lying media. Howard is going to say polls disagree, not a good argument when their previous polls all said Hiliary would win in a landslide. How did that go?

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      2 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      Immmmmmmmmmm back

      Sensible campaigning and then governing will be a clear contrast to this dysfunctional administration. "

      B:

      What is sensible campaigning? Is we hate Trump even a campaign? Is focusing a campaign on illegal aliens, eliminating ICE, and having democrat candidates tell Immigration Officers to watch out for their safety is that a sensible campaign. How does that campaign tell Americans and America that the democrat party will benefit them?

      As far as sensible campaigning, wouldn't it be better to limit the two year campaigning down to six months before the election. It is only a four year term and that only leaves the first two years to get something done before the election campaign stops any progress.

      And what is dysfunctional with the Trump administration? For two years now the entire democrat congress including the Obama congress, and now this congress have done nothing but resist, and resistance makes the democrats dysfunctional, not president Trump as he is accomplishing things. What have the democrats accomplished?

      ------------------------------

      Republicans who bought in to these policies or simply ignored his antics will be shown in sharp contrast to this positive Democratic message.

      B:

      When is resistance to the US government a positive democrat message, or the ones that I listed above. Tell me again what is this positive message?

      ----------------------------------------

      This is the Democratic party that I want to see this election cycle and beyond."

      B:

      First of all neither the democrat nor the republican party has provided solutions or worthwhile goals. Look back even to the 1970s and find where either party has done anything positive. In 50 years, you may have a handful.

      But both parties have given us more problems, like congressional gridlock. This is only normal when the goal of each party is diametrically opposite. How can anything but gridlock result?

      Trump is a center and both parties are an extreme. Shouldn't both parties try to come to the center and join forces? There is one congress and whatever it does either generates a failure or a win. The goal should be to make a win. When it fails, it doesn't matter which party was at fault because it is a fail, and there is only one congress. Sometimes, I think that loyal party voters think of congress as two sports team and their team must win. When it actually is only a win when both teams work in the same direction.

      ---------------------------------

      I am not discounting what you say, I am questioning it, and giving some other paths.

      del if u wish

    • jackclee lm profile image

      Jack Lee 

      2 weeks ago from Yorktown NY

      Eric, Howard, I agree. We need to have honest discussion in the arena if ideas.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Eric, It certainly is a good and essential discussion to have. My other discussions in this Hub with others have been more like monologue rants. I have no Marxist thoughts at all. Almost all economies now are some combination of capitalism and socialism. I wrote a whole Hub about this a few years back. The excesses of pure capitalism have been infringed upon over the years by socialistic components to save capitalism from itself. America was under threat from Fascism, Communism, and opportunistic populists during the Great Depression. Who knows what direction the U.S. would have taken if FDR had not been elected and started programs to get the country back on its feet and working. The bottom line is that we have been fluctuating and arguing the balance between capitalism and socialism ever since. These are important debates to update every election cycle. Capitalism creates losers who suffer mightily. These losers are both the unemployed and all of us who suffer from corporate negligence. I prefer just enough socialistic components to protect our citizens. Unfortunately the world and our country have become much more complicated which has exasperated the pain. Hopefully this has given you some more insight into my economic, political, and social views. Thank you as always for your comments.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      2 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I am a conservative fellow but have worked in the strange worlds of Mexico and Vietnam-socialist. I have even cooked "American" in the nuts place of France.

      Howard this is a good discussion it is right to have. Perhaps maybe dems. Need to dig in.

      My wife was born under a communism but she is more radical right than I.

      Do not treat me wrong but political battle is fantastic.

      Bring on your Marxist and Ho Chi Man child of thought.

      I need your thoughts.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I hope the Democrats run on the old political maxim which states that "all politics are local". Talk to voters about issues that affect them and offer policies that help the lives of all. Will they? We will see. Thank you for your comments, Eric.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      2 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Howard I sadly think that you are right about the bashing. But I see a platform of bashing more mainstream. Socialism more leftist. Probably it will have much to do with where the DNC spends the money and local politics -- visa vie district targeting. I am thinking far east and far west is where to maintain and gain. The problem is Dems already own that. Mid America is tough not matter but easier to build platforms of moderation. Take one car out of Detroit or one coal job over there and it is a looser.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I have in no way dismissed you from my conversations. You offer nothing. When you begin, which will be your first time, to discuss issues with me and not just dismiss me, as you dismiss others, I will have a conversation with you. You instead attack and name call. My policies for the Democratic party and for our country, yes our country not just yours, is a government that serves all. Not just the wealthy and corporations. A government that will reinforce our social safety net and not destroy it. A government that will embrace all peoples and not one, such as this Trump administration, that preys on those that seek a yesteryear of hate and bigotry. Trump is the ultimate demagogue and you and his worshipers hate whatever he hates. I feel sorry for you and for the direction our country has taken into the darkness. I hope the majority of our citizens will come back to their senses and dismiss this crap. Yes, crap. This country was once admired. Now Trump is the face of it and this country is hated. I hope you and he are proud of yourselves.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      Odd, you didn’t give that a second thought in your comment expressing how you think the Democrats should take the election which just goes to show hatred of Trump is what fuels and blinds you to what is really necessary to win. But of course, when I point that out you have to attack me personally, which is predictable, always the tactic of last resort with liberals - now that you’ve established that I am a cave dweller you will be justified in deleting me from further participation. I know your “ilk” very well.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I wrote an entire Hub of policies that I agree with other Democrats but wish they would moderate. I have written 52 Hubs mostly which address real policies. I try to portray both sides and then tell which I advocate for. You sir, ambush hubs such as mine and spew hateful rhetoric and name calling. I dealt with those such of yourself during my high school days but obviously you never progressed beyond that. I actually pity you. You are a small man with no ideas. Just hatred. I have dealt with ignorance my whole life that you portray and have dispatched your type easily because you are no challenge. So please, struggle to move that rock in front of your cave, and crawl back in. That is where you and your ilk belong.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      2 weeks ago from now on

      Lol, that’s your plan for winning? Bash Trump? Lol No mention of offering policies or solutions to problems (of course Trump is doing that).

      Go with that, it is really too hard for you to come up with any credible policies the Democrats could run on so I understand why you left that minor meaningless thing out. You are quite the brain trust Howard, wish you could be running the Democrats campaign.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      The Democrats should take nothing for granted. They also should not only conduct a campaign that bashes the President. They should explain what they feel he and his administration are doing wrong and then offer their own detailed positive policy platform. We will see how it all turns out. Thank you again for your comments, Eric.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      2 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I am still mulling this one over. Should they just assume that POTUS will screw up by 2020 and kind of take it easy in these midterms? I understand Holders redistricting plans are doing ok. Don't look up my last name there. Maybe the decade concept would work better.

      I think you suggest this Howard in a way.

      But now we know for sure, they can't just be reactionary - they have to plot regardless.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      2 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I know I was. Big time. Thank you for your comments, Doris.

    • MizBejabbers profile image

      Doris James-MizBejabbers 

      2 weeks ago

      Howard, yup, you are a victim of Gish Gallop all right.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      We will see, Eric. These new Democratic socialists have had very mixed results in the Democratic primaries. I believe they will add energy to the party and take it further Left. But I agree that Pelosi and Schumer will keep their influence within acceptable bounds for a more widespread electorate. Thank you for your comments.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      My concept there was Bernie Sanders. Without so declaring he was creating a split platform.

      I still really like your actual question.

      So in light of the above semi-research we may want to conclude that if everyone gets on board that is best for the DNC. And that is just not going to happen with folks espousing communism or socialism - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez style. Pelosi would not allow such a platform.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Yes Eric, that was Teddy and President Taft splitting in 1912. Good example of the GOP infighting. Same can be said for the 1968 George Wallace splitting with the Democrats. Both incidents ended with their party losing.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I was referring to Taft and the Bull Moose Party - "progressives". The then also crooked major party got a good scare. I forget all the history.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Thank you Brad and T for showing up on my Hub to give each other both a nice big ignorant hug. I enjoyed our give and takes but I guess I was talking to closed eyes and ears. Too bad. I guess you will go on to other Hubs to bully others. You are true Trumpsters.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Yes Eric, that little guy was Stephen Douglas. I don't know what you mean by Teddy making it happen. Thank you again.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Yes, Jack, impeachment is a political action. I believe the opposite. Clinton performed terrible sexual dalliances in the White House and lied about it, but I don't think it rises to an impeachable offense. We will see what comes of the Mueller report. If it is as bad as it sounds like it will be, he may be impeached. But the Senate Republicans will never vote for it. Thank you for your comments.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      MAGA It was always that great!

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      3 weeks ago from Orange County California

      T

      I should have listened to you earlier

      MAGA

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      Brad! LOL

      Have I just entered the Twilight Zone?

      I remember saying the same thing to you on PP’s article, or was it ME’s...no matter, probably both. Oh yeah, Joc the crock.

      Thank you for bringing me down to earth. See YOU around.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      3 weeks ago from Orange County California

      TSAD

      Don't waste your time here.

      These are the same people that chose illegal aliens over America and Americans.

      They support people that have instead of fixing the US homeless people have hired an official poop patrol to literally cleanup the homeless poop.

      They want to give all illegals the free run of the border, and when they come into America they will now offer them Free Medical, that even real American don't have today. They will also protect them from being deported thereby rewarding them for breaking our laws and our sovereignty.

      They don't even know the answer to my JFK phrase.

      I am just suggesting that these are the horses that won't drink the water.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      Impeach Clinton Vrs trump - oranges and apples - see you continue to make false comparisons. Clinton was impeached for lying under oath to a federal judge for which he was disbarred - President Trump has not lied to a federal judge under oath and has not even committed an impeachable offense yet your comparison assumes he has. Your tactics of debate are deplorable and dispicable leading to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to have any discussion with you. See you after November when instead of riding the blue wave you will be singing the blues.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Right on Howard yes the civil war who was that tiny guy who opposed Lincoln. Such a great study in that era.

      Did Teddy make it happen also?

    • jackclee lm profile image

      Jack Lee 

      3 weeks ago from Yorktown NY

      Impeachment is a political action. Clinton deserved to be impeached but he survived. He is more popular today among Democrats. Trump does not deserve to be impeached. If they try, he will win and come out ahead just like everything else they throw at him. They just can’t help themselves. Sad...

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I think Schumer is doing the best he can and he is keeping the shift in check to some extent. Most members of the Democratic party in Congress are not calling for impeachment. Secondly, T, I will not be going anywhere either way. I will be here to rebut the name callers and bullies such as yourself. As far as liars, the Senators and Congressmen of the GOP have completely lied about their views. Especially concerning grounds for impeachment. Impeaching Clinton was essential and correct for all of them. But not for Trump. Thank you for your comments.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      I agree with you, Eric, they should move a little more Left. That was part of my point to the Hub. It is important to move Left to begin to solve the problems all the people. But not so far that the electorate abandons us. As for today's divisions, I would have to investigate to see when we were so divided. But off hand, I would go back to the Civil War era. Thank you for your comments.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      Desperately? That doesn’t sound like it’s working now does it. Besides he is such a liar how can you believe he really feels that way, maybe he just wants to keep his power. Yeah, and what will you be saying when there is no blue wave? I’ll bet you won’t even be around to say you guys were right will you? No like Hiliary writing a book your kind will be blaming it on everything under the sun but the fact that the electorate rejected your looniness like Russia and made up dossiers and criminal activities of all kinds.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Howard I would like to get your take now on your fundamental question. I pretty much think they should scoot on over a little more left.

      Good or bad, I cannot remember when within parties there is such division.

      Maybe Agnew and Nixon days - but no not really.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Thank you, T. Your latest comments prove what I have said. Accuse, name call, deny, and then flee. Minority leader Schumer has been desperately trying to have the Sanders wing to go slower on their demands. Many others have been helping him. The important signs of their success will be in the November elections. The people will have their say.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      What you just said shows you are the one who thinks anyone who doesn’t share your political views is far right, and you said that about me when nothing I said supports that statement about me - it’s your left wing tactic to paint what I said as something I never even implied so as soon as you started down that road I knew how this was going to end. Have fun Howard cavorting with the likes of Cuomo, Obama, pocohontas, Ocasio-Cortez, crooked Hiliary, McCauliffe, Jerry Brown, Maxine Waters, Bernie Sanders, pelosi, Schumer and the rest of the loons your party loves so much. There is no Republican in leadership or the ranks who can be considered a mirror image of your party’s left wing loons. Tell me who in the democrat party is standing against theses leaders taking your party even further left? Never mind, I’m through here.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      We obviously are never going to agree, T. You claim I am just reciting Left wing talking points but have you listened to yourself? You are so Far Right that it is scary/ Especially if you think the GOP leadership in Congress is moderate or even Left. I try to debate issues here on Hub but you want to just name call and then recede back into your ideological world. Go back and be comfortable. Thank you for your comments.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      The only reason Obama didn’t take the country further left is because Republicans and citizens through the courts were actively trying to stop him. If he had a democrat congress like he did the first two years you would be looking at a much different America and you know it. Besides that you sight democrat leaders who want to take the party left? Wake up, they are your leadership, if the party is going anywhere it is left and the only reason the country isn’t going left is because the citizens are overwhelmingly electing Republicans to office, governorships, state legislatures, congress and now the president - thank Obama’s 8 years for that!

      i’d go on but all you are doing is spouting left wing talking points -“inartful”? This is the same nutcase who declared conservatives are not welcome in his state! Is he the governor of the people of his state or just the left wing people? You will believe anything the left says while claiming the Democrats aren’t left, I prefer to debate with someone who isn’t brainwashed.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      As I wrote to you earlier, Eric, I believe this sudden increased economic uptick will be short lived and followed by a deep recession. The wealth of this nation is so skewed with these latest tax cuts that a recession is inevitable and probably deep. I hope I am wrong but I do not think so. Thank you for your comments.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      How is that not an attack, T. My view, and the view of many, was that the Obama administration took our policies Left but not that far at all. Senators Sanders and Warren and others want to go much further Left. I actually don't mind that but it would be politically expedient to go in increments. My view is that the Republican party is almost all very Right with a significant wing being Far Right. Governor Cuomo's quote has been taken out of context because he stated it inartfully. Also, I do not believe that God should be mentioned in politics. Remember the biblical saying, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Besides, politicians speak about God in their speeches to pander for votes and then turn around and do the most unGodly things. I hope new faces emerge in 2020 for the Democratic nomination and we sweep both the 2018 and 2020 elections. The Republicans are corrupt and they only do the bidding of the wealthy and corporations. Wow, I wrote all of that without a personal attack on you. Remarkable. Thank you for your comments.

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      3 weeks ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Call me crazy but our life is doing great.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      Well you need to get your hearing checked. “anyone who does not share your political, economic, and social views is Far Left” is no where near what I said but after 8 years of Obama, a party that doesn’t want God mentioned in their platform and thinks Hiliary was their best shot at taking the White House, a governor of NY who thinks America was never that great and socialist Bernie thinking about running again if you think your party isn’t on the left and going farther to the left you really need not your hearing but your brain examined - not an attack just an observation.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Its sounds to me that anyone who does not share your political, economic, and social views is Far Left. Especially if you consider the establishment wing of the GOP to be closer to the Democrats. If you consider all of us Democrats to be Far Left, I will wear that crown proudly. Yes, Trump does not hold conventional conservative policies but that is because he is only about himself. What advances his polls and satisfies his base will be his positions of the day. He is a total narcissist. He only listens to those who shower praise on him. His hateful rhetoric is also going to divide this country further. I consider this to be the most dangerous aspect to him of all. Obviously we see today's political landscape quite differently. Thank you for your comments.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      3 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Thank you for your comments, Jack. It is true that the congressional leadership is still more to the moderate wing of the party. But it appears to me that more of the party's candidates are winning due to their base's enthusiasm. It is the same now for the Democrats. This is certainly not across the board. But the trends on both sides are moving rapidly that way. A sharp example of this is yesterday's Florida gubernatorial primaries. Both winners were from the extreme part of their party and turnouts were high for both of them. Maybe it is due to moderate apathy. I do not know. Also, yes, the stock market skyrocketed after Trump's election and continues. I believe this was due to the anticipation of tax cuts and regulation easing. Both of which have come to fruition. I believe these policy moves were wrong headed and have given our economy a temporary boost. I also fear these huge deficits and they are going to come home to bite us soon. It must be dealt with but not by sacking our social safety net programs. That will drain money from people who need it and spend it immediately because of need. Finally, how do you know the Mueller investigation is a dead end? There is no report yet. Just because the President tweets and yells Fake News and Witch Hunt does not make it so. We will see.

    • tsadjatko profile image

      3 weeks ago from now on

      Couldn’t have said it better Jack!

      While the Democrats have already moved to the far left the Republicans elected Trump whom it is questionable that he even has an ideology - his world view Is pragmatism, get the job done with whatever works (it just happens conservatism, capitalism, free markets, IS what works) and most of all get rid of whatever interferes with what works.

      There is no such thing as a far right Republican, the Republican Party before Trump was more similar to the Democrat Party than mirroring it and it will never mirror the Democrat party given the direction in which it is heading.

      Conservatives in the Republican Party are a minority and even they can never be considered far right. As a matter of fact, if you watched interviews of Dnesh desouza or his movie “the death of America you’d know that he has demonstrated emphatically how the alt right and “far” right groups actually emulate Democrat political positions, there really isn’t a far right that mirrors the far left no matter how hard you may try to believe that.

    • jackclee lm profile image

      Jack Lee 

      3 weeks ago from Yorktown NY

      The premise of your question is wrong. The Republicans did not move far right as you claimed. If they did, we would not have Ryan as speaker and McConnell as Senate Majority leader and Ted Cruz would be president.

      The democrats are moving left and far left with talk of socialism...

      The anti-Trump sentiment led by the media is getting old. The TDS is afflicting and ruining themselves rather than hurting Trump. The Mueller investigation is a dead end.

      Trump will be reelected President in 2020 because the economy is on fire.

      The S&P just rose 38% since the election of Trump.

      The Democrats have no message. "It is the economy stupid..." as a famous democrat once said.

      From my point, the only message the Democrats could run on to get my vote is to reduce the debt. Trump has not been able to reduce our debt in his first 2 years. Obama doubled it from 10 Trillion to 20 Trillion in 8 years. Trump have added to that and now sits at 21.5 Trillion...

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, You are right. They eliminated the individual mandate in that abominable tax cut and the ACA will now implode. The idea like any insurance plan, like auto insurance, is to insure everyone. Bigger risks pay more but everyone is covered. The reason for Medicare is that the elderly, as a group, are very poor risks because of their age. Therefore they cannot obtain reasonably priced insurance on the open market. Also, do you feel that people with pre-existing conditions should be heavily penalized? Do you feel those who lose their jobs should go without insurance? I was there. It is no fun and unfair. Worked hard my whole life and got cast aside by both my company and government. The ACA brought compassion and fairness into the system. Yes, it is flawed. But compromise was needed to pass it. The best system would be universal healthcare and I hope we eventually get there.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, Reducing the Medicare eligibility age to 55 from 65 is here because President Trump's policies to gut the Affordable Healthcare Act and throw millions off any plan will do so. We can pay for it by repealing his ridiculous tax cut. I wrote about that in this Hub.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, Your slavery analogy is wrong because the slaves before 1865 could not leave the plantation. They had no choice. They could attempt to escape but they would likely be re-captured or killed. How do you not get this? Yes, the low wages compared to back home are enticing but they can and often do go back home. Why do I have to explain that to you? As for the burning of the American flag in protest at one occasion, you demonize all. Typical Bradmaster. You are calling me rude. Are you serious? You may be the rudest commenter I have engaged on HubPages. Still I try to address you when others give up. I also am dubious to what you actually see on the border. But I am not there so I will not press the point. I never said that convicted felons should not be deported. I believe they should be locked up and then throw away the key. I said we should offer a legal path to employed law-abiding immigrants. Do you read what I write or just react? Finally the name calling Brad is back. I have never written about gun control. I do believe in sensible controls but I have no illusion of any substantial legislation in this country while Congress is beholden to the NRA. That is the leaders of the NRA and not the majority of sensible gun owners. I do not dwell on Charlottesville. I do dwell on white supremacists and any groups that preach hate against others. If undocumented start demonstrating against Americans, not against the federal government, then I will condemn them.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      Obamacare was failing before Trump was president. And it relied on forcing people to get insurance through the individual mandate.

      A tax for not getting insurance, where the Obamacare was to get insurance for those that couldn't get insurance. Surely going in two different directions.

      We have 328 people how many have Obamacare?

      "Instead, the Affordable Care Act, which Trump has pronounced "dead," "finished," "gone," and, as he put it earlier this month, "essentially repealed," continues to chug along.

      About 8.8 million people have signed up for 2018 coverage through HealthCare.gov, only a modest decline from the previous year despite a 90 percent cut in advertising by the administration and an enrollment period that was half as long. Insurer profits improved, suggesting companies have learned to price plans better. Millions more continue to get care through the law's Medicaid expansion.

      "The ACA is living and breathing right now, which was hardly the expectation a year ago when Republicans took control of the federal government," Larry Levitt, senior vice president for special initiatives at the Kaiser Family Foundation, said in an e-mail.

      But the law's insurance exchanges are also fragile and face big changes next year.

      The new tax bill eliminates the individual mandate, a key pillar of the ACA. Trump's White House is pursuing new regulations that could undermine Obamacare plans with cut-rate alternatives. Some states are struggling to attract insurers, a problem that's carried over from the Obama era. Republicans are still debating whether to give the ACA a bipartisan tune-up or purposefully "let Obamacare fail," as the president has put it. And nobody is sure what surprises the year might bring.

      "The individual insurance market is one big question mark right now," Levitt said.

      End of the mandate

      While they fell short of full repeal, Republicans did manage to make a major change to Obamacare by passing a tax bill that eliminates the individual mandate, a penalty for people who go without insurance that was created by the Affordable Care Act.

      At the time it was passed, the mandate was considered a critical part of the law's protections for people with preexisting conditions. The goal was to push more young and healthy customers into the system to offset the cost of sicker patients insurers would now have to take on. Without the mandate, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that 4 million more people will go without insurance in 2019 and 13 million after a decade, while insurance premiums shoot up 10 percent annually."

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      "One clear illustration of this political path that I am advising for is to reduce the age for Medicare eligibility to 55 from 65. This was a serious proposal made during the Affordable Healthcare negotiations in 2009. It was dismissed at the time because it was deemed too extreme and expensive but its time may have finally arrived."

      B:

      Who is going to pay for this?

      And why is its time arrived? What event do you cite to support this statement.

      ---------------

      --------------------------------------

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      " Yes, the undocumented shouldn't come but the ones that have been here and leading positive lives for years should be given a path.

      B:

      They are still illegal and you want to reward them. Why should they get a path when they chose to break the law. Let them stay in the country, but not get citizenship. And how do we know who is good and who is bad. In Los Angeles during one of their protests they burned the American Flag while flying the flag of Mexico, they have no allegiance to America. And as you said before they send their money earned here back to Mexico.

      ------------------------------

      We disagree. Get over it.

      B:

      That is the reason to discuss it. I don't believe in agree to disagree.

      --------------------------

      Your slavery analogy is bogus and I explained that.

      B:

      No you didn't explain why my explanation was wrong.

      ----------------------------

      Are you listening? Many people who are older and have families are working for minimum wage

      B:

      Don't be rude, you take one point and think it solves the whole slavery issue. There was more than one element to my slavery point. Use them all.

      --------------------------

      . Not the majority but a decent number. Are they also slaves? So you live in California, that makes you an expert on the border?

      B:

      I see these people everyday, I have been to the border. I don't to rely on CNN to tell me what is going on. I have been to the hospitals and know for a fact they are not charged for medical services. What do you know about it?

      ------------------------

      Sounds to me like Sarah Palin and Russia.

      B:

      WTF?

      -------------------------

      We are both stating our opinions based on what we perceive and read. I admit it and you lie to yourself.

      B:

      ON what?

      ----------------

      Hillary has not threatened anyone. Are you a Info Wars devotee?

      B:

      How do you know?

      And I don't like Alex Jones, but I like him better than you.

      ----------------

      Your final comments on immigration are just a re-hash of what we have argued. You are repeating yourself, I understood you the first time and you are beginning to lose my interest. We disagree. I get it. Please come up with something new."

      b:

      Howard stop with this bullsh, you haven't answered my comments, and then you make this crap statement. I am repeating myself because you never gave an answer. You have avoided answering a lot of my comments.

      One more time, why do prefer Illegal Aliens over Americans and America? What is your grievance. What have the democrats done for America and Americans in the last several decades. Nothing. Obamacare is still in force, and it is still bad. You didn't answer my comments on them.

      ---------

      Brad, The immigration problem effects these local problems only nominally and they are certainly not the cause. The murder of Mollie Tibbetts was horrible but it is not proof that undocumented immigrants are murdering or committing crimes rampantly. Charlottesville is relevant as long as hate groups such as white supremacists demonstrate and spew their ignorant hate among the masses. They have the right to do so but we have the duty to answer them. I would also add we need to answer them with positive and inclusive messages.

      B:

      This comment is sickening. Charlottesville is relevant as long as hate groups, as if Mollie was the first and only American killed by an illegal alien. And you never answered why we shouldn't deport convicted illegal alien felons.

      With gun control, a single person dies and you want to vet anyone with a gun, or wants to own a gun, but you don't want to vet illegal aliens to find the criminals or potential criminals.

      Why are the two so different? And that goes for Charlottesiville and Iowa?

      You are truly the poster boy for anti America, Anti Trump, and TDS.

      :)

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, We have agreed that both parties have failed. Move on. Every budget has analysis of each states revenues into the federal budget and outflows to them. They accompany the budgets each year. Smaller population states almost always have positive inflows. I am not indicting this system it is just the way it is. Yes, the undocumented shouldn't come but the ones that have been here and leading positive lives for years should be given a path. We disagree. Get over it. Your slavery analogy is bogus and I explained that. Are you listening? Many people who are older and have families are working for minimum wage. Not the majority but a decent number. Are they also slaves? So you live in California, that makes you an expert on the border? Sounds to me like Sarah Palin and Russia. We are both stating our opinions based on what we perceive and read. I admit it and you lie to yourself. Hillary has not threatened anyone. Are you a Info Wars devotee? Your final comments on immigration are just a re-hash of what we have argued. You are repeating yourself, I understood you the first time and you are beginning to lose my interest. We disagree. I get it. Please come up with something new.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      B:

      You are not addressing all my comments.

      -----------------------------------------------

      "Brad, I know DACA is on hold as is the wall funding. I agree that Congress needs to address this but they didn't even when it was less divided during the Bush administration.

      B:

      Congress has two parties, and both parties failed, and continue to fail

      ---------------------------

      In all studies, both NY and NJ contribute much more in revenues to the federal government than what they receive back in expenditures or benefits. So that argument is wrong.

      B:

      What studies, ALL studies??

      ------------------------------------

      never said to let them all immigrants in. We need a better system. I was just saying that the undocumented are not given priority over legal immigrants.

      B:

      They didn't go through the legal process, which takes time, money and an attorney. The illegals make their own priority by just crossing the border.

      ----------------------

      It is still not slavery. It is terrible and they send that back their wages to their families in countries where that money goes a longer way. I am not using that as an excuse just to say it is not slavery.

      B:

      I explained how it is slavery.

      --------------------------------------

      By your logic, everyone in our country that works for minimum wage is a slave.

      B:

      Most minimum wages are made by young people who are just starting out. The minimum and low wages are paid to illegals because their masters get the benefit. Just like the 1860 slaves. These illegals are not anymore free than the 1860 slaves, they could be deported back to where they came.

      Because these minimum wages won't give them a living wage, their other master the government does the rest.

      -----------------

      There is no proof that terrorists come over the border in Mexico.

      B:

      Answered already.

      ------------------------

      The only excuse you honestly use for the wall is undocumented aliens and even that is poor policy in my mind.

      B:

      These are not excuses they are reasons, I find your opinions to be really non responsive.

      ------------------------

      Also you were the one that linked the drug problem to the border and immigration issue. I say demand and the health care industry is the issue and not the border.

      B:

      What the hell do you know about the border?

      Where is the border in NJ

      I gave my answer and you deflected it rather than argued against it.

      I already gave my reasons.

      -------------------------------

      Finally Bradmaster, you are the one who flings a plethora of dubious so-called facts at myself and others waiting for a few to stick. As I have said in the past, we have our own experiences, media readings, and opinions.

      B:

      Your opinions cannot be supported, and by deflecting my opinions doesn't really prove them wrong. I already answered the wall, and you didn't really disprove it.

      ------------------------------

      Hillary is not looking to take anyone down. Where did you get that? I was never a Hillary fan but at least she wouldn't run the country through Twitter.

      B:

      No she isn't looking, did you read what I said. If she is indicted.

      ------------------------

      President Obama at least took the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and helped to build the coalition to defeat ISIL.

      B:

      ISIL was created because he took the troops out.

      Trump is the one that got ISIL under control.

      -----------------------------

      He also tried to deal with the immigration problem sensibly in the face of a Congress that would oppose anything he proposed. Kicking all undocumented immigrants out throws out good people with the bad. That is why he initiated DACA."

      B:

      They are not undocumented, they are illegals and they can get out of the country the same way they got in across the border.

      With all of the things that are going on in the US, the democrats choose to champion ILLegals. Not Americans, and not America. And the anti Trumpers are anti Americans. They are against everything that the president does, thinks about doing and accomplices. They are against him to the point they want to have him killed under the laws of Treason. They want to impeach him even though he did nothing wrong. They don't care that it the same thing that the terrorists want to accomplish.

      The democrats have done nothing for America or Americans in the last several decades. The republicans didn't do a lot either, but they don't want to take down the president or the country.

      Once again, why do you care more for illegals, than Americans or America?

      You and the democrats, and anti Trumpers have a focus on these illegals while resisting the president. The American way is to do it at the voting booth. Insurrection against the president is not the American Way.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, The immigration problem effects these local problems only nominally and they are certainly not the cause. The murder of Mollie Tibbetts was horrible but it is not proof that undocumented immigrants are murdering or committing crimes rampantly. Charlottesville is relevant as long as hate groups such as white supremacists demonstrate and spew their ignorant hate among the masses. They have the right to do so but we have the duty to answer them. I would also add we need to answer them with positive and inclusive messages.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, I know DACA is on hold as is the wall funding. I agree that Congress needs to address this but they didn't even when it was less divided during the Bush administration. In all studies, both NY and NJ contribute much more in revenues to the federal government than what they receive back in expenditures or benefits. So that argument is wrong. I never said to let them all immigrants in. We need a better system. I was just saying that the undocumented are not given priority over legal immigrants. It is still not slavery. It is terrible and they send that back their wages to their families in countries where that money goes a longer way. I am not using that as an excuse just to say it is not slavery. By your logic, everyone in our country that works for minimum wage is a slave. There is no proof that terrorists come over the border in Mexico. The only excuse you honestly use for the wall is undocumented aliens and even that is poor policy in my mind. Also you were the one that linked the drug problem to the border and immigration issue. I say demand and the health care industry is the issue and not the border. Finally Bradmaster, you are the one who flings a plethora of dubious so-called facts at myself and others waiting for a few to stick. As I have said in the past, we have our own experiences, media readings, and opinions. Hillary is not looking to take anyone down. Where did you get that? I was never a Hillary fan but at least she wouldn't run the country through Twitter. President Obama at least took the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and helped to build the coalition to defeat ISIL. He also tried to deal with the immigration problem sensibly in the face of a Congress that would oppose anything he proposed. Kicking all undocumented immigrants out throws out good people with the bad. That is why he initiated DACA.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      I answered most of this in my previous comment.

      -------------------

      "Brad, I agree that immigration is principally a congressional problem but the executive branch has a say because it enforces the laws. The wall is far too expensive to build compared to any national security, drug, illegal aliens, or child trafficking problems. Besides, a wall would only minutely effect those situations.

      B:

      And you don't like the way they enforce the laws, so it is back to congress to make any changes.

      -----------------------------------

      But I'm sure it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. I believe it is a false panacea and would further tarnish our reputation on the world stage.

      B:

      You mean are reputation of being a patsy!

      ------------------------------------

      I agree we need to elect better people and I agree Congress needs to deal with the immigration problem in a better and more substantive way. Finally I do worry about the local problems you enumerated. But they were not part of my Hub and they have little to no connection with the immigration issue."

      B:

      Seriously Howard, what local problem doesn't involve the immigration issue. Illegal aliens create a local burden on education, especially with their large families. They create a burden on healthcare, as they get free medical. and they create a burden on the welfare system. They also create a burden on the local jails and police. Our prisons and jails have more than 2 million people in it. Any number of illegal alien criminal has an impact. Also, the round up of illegal aliens burdens the local police.

      These are all impacted with immigration failing to deal with the illegal aliens. Do you feel the same about the death in Charlottsville as the one in Iowa? We are still hearing about Charlottsville a year later, but the Iowa death has faded away. How does that work?

      ------------------------------------------

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      "Brad, I just noticed that I missed your comments on my comments from the second part of my Hub. Again we are going to go around in circles regarding immigration

      B:

      I addressed it in my last comment.

      --------------------------------------------

      . Democrats gave funding for the wall in exchange for DACA legislation. They agreed to it through gritted teeth.

      B:

      Howard, that is not even close to being true. DACA is still on hold, no legislation. Read the last budget report. $5 billion was allowed, but only to repair existing fences.

      -------------------------

      Whether it was for maintenance or building, I do not know or care. It was compromise that was killed by the Far Right in Congress.

      b:

      You should care, and as long as you and others keep playing the other guy did it, then we stay where we have been for many decades, gridlock in congress, and EO becomes the legislature.

      Left or Right there is only one congress, and they need to make decisions for the center, neither left or right.

      Voting row A or row B doesn't take much intelligence, and like the saying East is East and West is West and they will never come together. These are supposed to be the UNITED states, not Red or Blue but red, white, and blue.

      ----------------------------------

      Comparing funding of the wall to tunnels in NY and NJ is comparing apples to oranges. The tunnels were a long term plan and much needed for this metropolitan area.

      B:

      These two states are the only ones getting this money, what did the other 48 states get? These are also two very Blue states. The Wall on the other hand protects the country, and the congress couldn't spend $30 billion on it?

      ----------------------

      Besides it is an inclusionary project not an exclusionary one. I will go with inclusion every time.

      B:

      Answered above.

      ------------------------

      The proposed immigration bills do not give priority to the undocumented over legal immigrants. It gives them a long path to citizenship.We also are not bringing these immigrants into the country. They are lured by jobs.

      B:

      Howard, so there is no other solutions but to let them just come in, along with everyone else. That is not the way the Europeans came into the country. They came in through Ellis Island and they were vetted, and allowed to enter the country. They were no given anything else.

      Why does the US give aid to their countries, when we are supporting them?

      ----------------------------------

      Blame the business community. Blame poor management of the Mexican economy. As for your slavery comparison, that is just hyperbolic nonsense.

      B:

      I am blaming you, and others that think like you.

      Why isn't it involuntary servitude to work for wages that don't support them, and then the master (us gov) has to take care of these slaves. Like the slaves they can't vote, they are not free.

      Hyperbolic nonsense, that isn't an answer. That is why I wrote a 9 article on Do Anti Trumpers make claims they can't prove.

      That is not a proof, it is a deflection so you think you don't need to answer it.

      ------------------------------

      There is no proof that terrorists are coming over the Mexican border.

      B:

      With 11 million plus illegal aliens in the country, how do you know. You only know about who was caught. And there aren't 11 million terrorists, yet. it only took 19 on 911, how many are you willing to let in the open border. It only took two for Boston, and only two for Riverside CA, and they were in the country legally? It says how we need to beef up the vetting process.

      ---------------------------

      But it sure was used as a primary excuse for a wall and deportations after 9/11. It is a straw man.

      B:

      Straw men can't kill. What is your justification for not caring who comes into the country through the open border?

      Do we have straw men guarding the border?

      If we put the border wall, and it was already up, what is your objection then?

      --------------------------

      I thoroughly admit we have a major drug problem but open Mexican borders is not the cause.

      B:

      $20 billion of illegal drugs coming into the country is not a drug problem? Yes, much of it comes through the ports of entry, but the people that manage it, distribute it, and protect it comes across the open border.

      -----------------------------------

      It is the high demand for them in this country combined with the over prescriptions of painkillers in this country.

      B:

      Two separate problems. One is the border, the other is healthcare.

      -----------------------------------

      Finally Democrats are against most of Trump's policies because they are anathema to them but not all.

      B:

      You know that is not true, they were against him when he was running for the presidency, and still when he won the republican primary, and again, when he won the election. And they have stopped since then. At the same time, they have done nothing but resist him. Continually try to impeach him but he hasn't done anything wrong. But the democrats believe that he stole the election from their queen Hillary.

      BTW, Hillary says that if she gets indicted, she will take down half of DC with her.

      ----------------------------------

      They do agree occasionally on some points but it is his rhetoric that sets them and I off. Senator Schumer did call for increased enforcement of the undocumented before Trump's rise but never a wall and in combination with serious immigration legislation."

      B:

      President Obama and Clinton were for a war, and believed that illegal aliens don't belong in the country. But the democrats changed that just to oppose president Trump.

      Serious immigration shouldn't have a path to citizenship. By breaking the laws of the US to get into the country, they shouldn't be rewarded with citizenship. According to the democrats, especially Hillary we are a nation of laws.

      Instead of blowing off my comments with two words, that are vague,ambiguous, irrelevant and have no meaning themselves, how about detailing the logic why you don't like my comment!

      ---------------------------------

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, I agree that immigration is principally a congressional problem but the executive branch has a say because it enforces the laws. The wall is far too expensive to build compared to any national security, drug, illegal aliens, or child trafficking problems. Besides, a wall would only minutely effect those situations. But I'm sure it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. I believe it is a false panacea and would further tarnish our reputation on the world stage. I agree we need to elect better people and I agree Congress needs to deal with the immigration problem in a better and more substantive way. Finally I do worry about the local problems you enumerated. But they were not part of my Hub and they have little to no connection with the immigration issue.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      bradmasterOCcal 

      4 weeks ago from Orange County California

      Howard

      "Brad, Firstly, and I know we are going around in circles,

      B:

      I am not making any turns!

      ----------------------------------

      I believe we can address the immigration issue in much less draconian ways than building a wall and just exporting everyone back

      B:

      Seriously, Draconian.

      The immigration issue is a congressional issue, otherwise we only have two branches of government when the Legislature doesn't do their job.

      The Wall is for defense as well as immigration. It is not immigration when anyone can get into the country. And ridiculous to then reward them as if they are psuedo American Citizens. But keeping aliens out is 3rd or 4th on the list to build a wall.

      1. National security, we don't want criminals from other countries coming across an open border. And we certainly don't want any terrorists. How many terrorist are you will to let cross the open border?

      2. We have illegal drugs coming across the border to the tune of about $20 billion a year. And while there are domestic sources for illegal drugs which we have lost control of here, that doesn't mean that we should give up and say it doesn't matter.

      Along with those illegal drugs, there are also the drug cartel criminals coming across the border to manage their products. The drug cartel outguns, out finances, and has infiltrated many of the government agencies to allow them to get warnings of the border defenses.

      3. There is a major child trafficking business that comes across the border. It is akin to slavery, and prostitution.

      4. Illegal aliens. They break the immigration laws, and get into the country where the democrats in government protect them. And they protect them from deportation after they have been convicted and served their sentences for Felonies.

      And the illegal aliens should be caught and returned, but that isn't in the current immigration laws. It isn't fair to the other immigrants that try to enter the country legally.

      There is no real benefit to not have a border wall?

      We are putting our country at risk as well as the people that belong here. For example, how can you justify not deporting a Convicted Illegal Alien Felon?

      ---------------------------------

      . I wrote a Hub about it several years back and I am sticking with those views. Secondly, I certainly agree that all protests and demonstrations can turn violent. I believe that white supremacist demonstrations have a much higher chance for this because of the proclivity of violent references in their literature.

      B:

      It would be nice if you belief fit reality but it doesn't. We have had riots in Los Angeles when the Lakers won. We have riots when conservatives try to speak at universities. Any protest in these days have a propensity to turn violent.

      The better solution as I have said is to elect the people that can actually solve the issue. And if they don't do it, then don't reelect them.

      ----------------------------------

      Finally the immigration bills that have come up in the past ten years have given these undocumented immigrants a vigorous road to legalization with monetary penalties. And this is for only long time residents with clean records and proof of employment."

      B:

      Even president Obama said not too long ago, these are not undocumented immigrants, they are illegal Aliens.

      Congress of both parties failed to do their job, and now you want to blame president Trump who had no part in the existing immigration laws. And now he is vigorously enforcing the law, you want to blame him. Blame your congressmen, put pressure on the congress.

      And what do you care whether illegal aliens are stopped by a border wall. They shouldn't be in the country in the first place, but they have been able to get easy access without the wall?

      With the wall, they don't belong in the country, and when they can't get past the wall they are no worse off then before.

      Why aren't you worrying about why the state and local government are not dealing with the Homeless problem, or the Drug problem, and the number of people with mental illness. Many of them take illegal drugs, and many are homeless.and these problems are running rampant

      across the country. Charity starts at home.

      -------------------------------------

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Brad, I just noticed that I missed your comments on my comments from the second part of my Hub. Again we are going to go around in circles regarding immigration. Democrats gave funding for the wall in exchange for DACA legislation. They agreed to it through gritted teeth. Whether it was for maintenance or building, I do not know or care. It was compromise that was killed by the Far Right in Congress. Comparing funding of the wall to tunnels in NY and NJ is comparing apples to oranges. The tunnels were a long term plan and much needed for this metropolitan area. Besides it is an inclusionary project not an exclusionary one. I will go with inclusion every time. The proposed immigration bills do not give priority to the undocumented over legal immigrants. It gives them a long path to citizenship.We also are not bringing these immigrants into the country. They are lured by jobs. Blame the business community. Blame poor management of the Mexican economy. As for your slavery comparison, that is just hyperbolic nonsense. There is no proof that terrorists are coming over the Mexican border. But it sure was used as a primary excuse for a wall and deportations after 9/11. It is a straw man. I thoroughly admit we have a major drug problem but open Mexican borders is not the cause. It is the high demand for them in this country combined with the over prescriptions of painkillers in this country. Finally Democrats are against most of Trump's policies because they are anathema to them but not all. They do agree occasionally on some points but it is his rhetoric that sets them and I off. Senator Schumer did call for increased enforcement of the undocumented before Trump's rise but never a wall and in combination with serious immigration legislation.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Leslie McCowen 

      4 weeks ago from Cape Cod, USA

      “Is there and excuse for vitriolic discussion”

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukwtBzhcd8A&feat...

      You tell me. Tell me, when Trump’s daily tirade includes “Crooked Hillary”, what do you suggest?

      In my mind, why don’t you deal with the problem: Trump?, Instead of supporting him. You support him, you support his unprincipled behavior.

      At the same time, demand civility from others!

      This position lacks honesty and lacks integrity.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Howard Schneider 

      4 weeks ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

      Eric, I do attempt to keep all of my articles and comments civil but you are right that I sometimes can get riled up. I have to work on that. In regards to President Trump, I have to say I truly find his rhetoric to be abhorrent. His policies I find to be a mixed bag at best. But his stirring up his base and demeaning of others is terrible. Thank you for your comments.

    working

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