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The War Trump May Lose

Updated on May 13, 2019

Trump loves tariffs. These are additional taxes on imported products just for spite and to try to even the economic tables. Most economists will tell you that a "tariff war" is a real gamble to try to get your way with a beast like China. American subsidies on American farmers is $10 billion, last years soybean crops China has not bought, so they are rotting. China buys millions of American farm products. Many Republican states are farming states and it will be interesting to watch as the war develops, if those farmers support Trump as they once did.

Trump is gambling that China would not retaliate. They did in the first round with over $60 billion in tariffs on American products. China has hinted it will stop all purchases of American farm products- soybeans, wheat, corn etc. If the trade war worsens, China's ultimate weapon is dumping the U.S. Treasury notes of US debt, which China owns most of. Trump has imposed and additional 10% tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese products last year. Trump now has said this will increase to 25% on June 1.

Here is China's tariffs just announced to occur on June 1:

Here’s the details:

  • 25% tariffs on 2,493 items
  • 20% tariffs on 1,078 items
  • 10% tariffs on 974 items
  • 5% tariffs to continue on 595 items

This trade war is about saving face within each countries political realm. China's leader is equally as tough as Trump, Trump is hoping a win here will tell his voters that he keeps his campaign promises by America first. The Chinese would never change their economic system now despite Trump 's demands. That is such a naive thing to demand. Would the U.S. change their economic system to one like China? So that demand was "pie in the sky".

Since we are in just the early stages of a trade war, it is hard to tell what options each side has for leverage over the other. But, in the end, it will be the consumers of both countries that will suffer when the tariffs hit. Americans will be paying more for most Chinese made items (which is nearly all things) and the Chinese will be paying more for American made items, which are much less prevalent because China restricts American imports to protect their own market. So, the Chinese will be able to handle the bad effects longer because American farmers rely on Chinese purchases of their crops now, even before the tariff war. Now, they will be hurt further.

Trump has suggested that the U.S. government should buy the farmer's crops normally sold to China, well, this is simply another way to buy their vote and devotion in 2020, and the trade war could last that long if one of the giants in this face off does not give ground.

Trump warned the Chinese not to retaliate. Stupid. China is doing that already in the South China Sea. There, they have basically stolen atolls they claim as theirs and created military bases armed with anti-ship missiles. America basically looked the other way but now challenge them by sailing through the area, as if, that will change anything. One can only see this area as a military flash point when China desires. This is another concern for the USA.

Trump's cause is noble, even out the trade arena between the world's two giants. On paper it sounds great, but most will tell you tariffs and trade wars usually end bad for BOTH belligerents. If Trump stands fast, so will China, and in the long run into 2020, Trump may revise his position when American voters start to complain about the tariffs for all the Chinese products entering into America.

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    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike

      Can you translate this into something that changes the facts that the democrats intentionally put DACA in the first budget where it didn't belong, causing the shutdown.

      Or in the second shutdown, that the democrats intentionally caused the shutdown over a $5.7 billion item on a $4.4 Trillion budget?

      Why was it necessary for the democrats to put DACA in the budget negotiation?

      Why couldn't the democrats give Trump a mere $5.7 Billion for the wall?

      Trump was elected by the people that voted for him because in part for his promise to build the wall. The democrats from the day Trump won the election have boasted they will resist the president at any cost.

      The executive branch of government is an equal branch to the congress, and the SCOTUS. He had no option but to call the shutdown, but it is planned by the democrats.

      The democrats did it when they weren't in control, and now that they have the house they are still doing it. That is working for the country, where people want the wall, and elected Trump.

      Also

      Your comment below is biased. The DACA shouldn't have been an issue at all, and Trump gave them a better option with more than the original number as by the democrats. They are the ones that rejected it.

      The Border Wall is an important item for the country, DACA and Illegal immigration is not.

      "There are many forces at work here. It was done because Trump is an A Hole."

      Of course Pelosi wasn't going to shutdown the government because she and the democrats got what they wanted, and by not giving Trump what he wanted for the 3rd year they used it to their advantage.

      And the wall is not the wall that we wanted, it was the old wall, more like a fence.

      You really act like the enemy of the country not wanting the wall, and doing more for the illegal aliens than Americans and Legal Immigrants.

      What do we have to lose to spend $35 Billion to put up a new wall that Trump and his supporters want to protect the country?

      That is less than we spend to support illegal aliens with the direct and indirect costs in one year. This is a one off, but the illegal aliens is a continuing issue that keeps bleeding money from the taxpayers.

      Why, and you never answered my repeated queries, on why we need sanctuary cites and states for illegal aliens so they won't be deported. And especially for Convicted Illegal Alien Felons?

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: From your article:

      Prospects for a quick agreement brightened briefly in September after Trump appeared to sign off on a framework with Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer; that plan would have traded the Dream Act for additional security at the border. But under pressure from immigration hard-liners, Trump backed away and added a whole new set of demands for a DACA deal, including funding for his border wall and significant changes to the legal immigration system.

      Pelosi promised immigration activists that Democrats would not leave for the year without addressing DACA, but Senate Democrats agreed just before Christmas to punt the fight to January. With Friday’s funding deadline approaching and no immigration agreement in sight, Democrats in both the House and Senate this week decided to make a stand.

      “The caps deal is very, very close and I think Dems are holding out on the caps deal because of these DACA negotiations,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said earlier this week.

      M: The key operative, here is Ryan thinks. He doesn't know. That does not make it a fact.

      Trump

      If there’s one thing Democrats and Republicans (some publicly, many others privately) agree on, it’s that the president’s negotiating style has made it much harder for the two sides to reach a deal. Trump has veered wildly from one extreme to the other—telling lawmakers in one meeting that he’d sign any DACA bill Congress sent him, then issuing a list of hard-line demands in the next. His vulgar reference to African nations, among others, as “shithole countries” while rejecting a bipartisan DACA proposal blew up the negotiations at a critical juncture.

      There are many forces at work here. It was done because Trump is an A Hole. He didn't have to shut the government down. He had a choice. You are a democrat hater and I can see it in your articles and comments.. You solely try to blame this on the democrats and that is not the case.

      Trump is in the drivers seat. Did Pelosi shut down the government...no Trump did...He didn't get his 5.7 B for his fake national emergency that has turned out to be a long term emergency. So he throws a temper tantrum and shuts the government down.

      It's his wall that already exists. He is the one that wanted to build it and he is the one that said Mexico would pay for it. He is the one that said he would own the shutdown and you want to blame it on the democrats by playing with semantics between who caused the shutdown and why there was a shutdown. Why There was a shutdown is because Trump is the one who flipped the switch. He turned the lights off because he didn't get his way.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike

      This is a link to the 2019 shutdown that substantiates my claim that it was the democrats because they wouldn't give Trump $5.7 Billion for the wall, not his wall the wall for the country.

      -------

      1st shutdown

      https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/...

      illegal immigration?

      Anti Trumper stumper

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: Here is why the government was shutdown and there is nothing about DACA in this article. You can twist it and spin it anyway you want as to who or why there was a shutdown, but the fact is Trump ordered it. He could have negotiated, but instead he threw a temper tantrum.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2019/01/...

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: This article is not about who caused the shutdown. It's about the trade war. If we start debating about who caused the shutdown, it is going to take this article off on a tangent and I don't think Perrya will be too happy with that.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike

      You are being obtuse, The reason for the shutdown was the fact that the democrats put the DACA on a budget it didn't belong. And they refused a $5 Billion item on a $4.4 Trillion budget.

      Why did they do that?

      Do you think that president Trump should have just rolled over.

      These are facts, and not opinions.

      Be the old adult that you are and refute these facts.

      Once again, it doesn't matter who called the shutdown, it matters why the shutdown was called.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: I gave you facts. You don't accept them. You give me opinion and you want me to refute your opinion. I'm not playing your game. Go find someone else to pester.

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      Ken,

      I agree with you. Do you agree with the article I previously included with a post about China letting up on sanctions on the US, would be front page news should it have occurred when the last president was in office?

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Readmikenow "This story would be so different if we had an objective media instead of one serving the interests of the Democrat party."

      To be fair, the media doesn't specifically serve the Democrat Party.

      The media serves the interests of billionaires who want to alter the course of the country (Soros, Steyer), and International Corporations and Foreign nations with their own agendas that control various media outlets, and you have the 'establishment' or Global/NWO/Agenda 2030 initiatives that direct almost all media outlets.

      There is no specific serving or service to the Democrats, because the Democrats and many Republicans serve more powerful interests, not the other way around.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike Russo

      Can you refute my assertion about the democrats causing the 2 shutdowns?

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Readmikenow: Can you please explain how Trump's plan to decrease the trade deficit with China is working?

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      Mike Russo,

      The issue is not the reporting, the issue is that President Donald Trump's plan to decrease the trade deficit with China is working. The mainstream media isn't reporting it.

      His method is slowly working. THAT is a story that should be all over the news.

      He has a solution and nobody else does. His IS working.

      That is the issue.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Mike: "Ken: Are we moving in the right direction? We have a country that is deeply divided politically; we have a dysfunctional congress"

      Yes the country is deeply divided, but this is a division that is being fostered upon the American people by design or by happenstance of a new age of information (internet, cell phone, etc.)?

      Is Congress truly dysfunctional, or is it serving interests that are not what is best for the American people, and the Nation of America?

      Mike: "we are at the brink of war with Iran; we have a 22 T and climbing national debt."

      We have been at the 'brink of war' with Iran since the late 1970s and our involvement in endless wars in the Middle East began long before Trump.

      We have a '22 Trillion dollar debt'.... we had over a 20 Trillion dollar debt when Obama left office, exactly what was done to address this issue for the positive during the years the Democrats had control?

      Mike: "The economy is growing, but there are still a lot of people who are out of work who are not reporting it."

      This is true, but there are millions less now than before Trump, considering the 'Global Economy' we live in today, that alone is a monumental feat. In an age where China and Mexico and Vietnam, etc. can make things cheaper, with less regulations, pay requirements, etc. for America to be regaining any ground in job creation and enticing companies to come back to America is huge.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike

      But for the democrats and the issues that I mentioned, the shutdown wouldn't have happened.

      Don't you see the difference?

      DACA didn't belong on the first budget.

      Not allowing $5 billion for the was on $4.4 Trillion.

      Was the reason that democrats caused the shutdown.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Readmikenow:

      "This story would be so different if we had an objective media instead of one serving the interests of the Democrat party."

      I beg to differ with you.

      I watch both TCN (The Trump News Channel) and CNN. They are worlds apart. While CNN was showing the effects of a tornado, Tucker Carlson had a show called The Liberal Sherpa, where he has a clip of AOC talking about crop rotation of plants and he turns it into a racist issue by using a liberal guest as a shill.

      He also has another spot called What Will Democrats Ban Next. Below are the links to both of those shows. You tell me which program is more biased towards dems. If I were a Trump supporter, I would probably go through life believing both of these shows and hate democrats. TNC is nothing but pure propaganda.

      https://video.foxnews.com/v/6040923194001/

      https://youtu.be/WItsU5NNmO8

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      This story would be so different if we had an objective media instead of one serving the interests of the Democrat party.

      Slowly, President Donald Trump is winning in the trade war with China.

      “Dropping crude oil from the final tariff list on $16 billion in U.S. goods announced late on Wednesday underscores the growing importance of the United States as a key global producer and critical alternative supply source for top importer China, which is seeking to diversify its oil purchases.”

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china...

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: Who actually issued the order to shutdown the government? It wasn't the democrats. Trump announced on TV that he would "Own the Shutdown."

      Trump had a choice. He could either include DACA or not. The Senate passed a stop gap measure for the wall funding. Pelosi offered Trump 1.6 M for border security, but it was killed by Trump because of ridicules from Ann Coulter and Fox News pundit Laura Ingram and some Freedom Caucasus members .

      Therefore, he shut the government down. Again another Trump temper tantrum from your beloved leader.

      I have news for you, "The Wall" already exists in many forms. It just needs to be upgraded including border security personnel and technology. But that is another story that has nothing to do with this topic.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Ken and Mike both have solid points about the trade war. I still think both will have to compromise to walk away and claim victory to their political parties.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      pp

      "And it is almost certain that Trump will shutdown the government again "

      I can't let you get away with this statement.

      Both times that the government was shutdown, it was because of the democrats.

      The first one was because the democrats put DACA in the budget, but that wasn't a real budget item.

      The second time was because the democrats on a $4.4 Trillion budget wouldn't even give president Trump $5 Billion for our Border Wall.

      That is all democrat, they did OK a $70 Billion new subway tunnel for NY NJ.

      So, I challenge you to refute that it was both times the democrats.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Ken: Are we moving in the right direction? We have a country that is deeply divided politically; we have a dysfunctional congress; our infrastructure is old and crumbling; we are at the brink of war with Iran; we have a 22 T and climbing national debt.

      And it is almost certain that Trump will shutdown the government again when it is time to raise the debt ceiling either because he will use it as a bargaining chip, to end the investigation and/or to build his wall, that already exists, or God only knows what.

      The economy is growing, but there are still a lot of people who are out of work who are not reporting it. I watch CNN and Fox news and they are in two separate universes. Fox news is Trump's news channel and it has a much larger viewership than CNN. That is troubling to me on many levels that I won't go into on this comment.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Trying to defend what Trump says would be a exercise in futility.

      That however does not change the facts regarding China, and what has been discussed here.

      I ignore what Trump says just like I ignore CNN. All I care about is results... who Trump has behind the scenes making things work doesn't matter to me, so long as it continues to move things in the right direction and America and Americans are better off for it.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Trump says China is going to pay for the 28 B farm subsidies, just like he said that Mexico would pay for the wall. He lies on both counts. He is putting the burden on our importers with tariffs to pay for the subsidies.

      In other words to pay for 28 B, our importers have to import that amount in goods and services from China. However he wants to curtail imports from China.

      His plan is at cross-purposes with his agenda. Ultimately, we are going to pay for the subsides and it will be added to the national debt of which China holds a large part of the Treasuries for that debt. He is going to bankrupt this country, just like he did his businesses, only there won't be a tax write off.

      Please tell me if I'm wrong and missing something, because that is how I see it.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Mike: "China has a hybrid form of government. They are Communist with some form of [capitalism], but their important projects are planned and funded by their government. They have a continuity of leadership that our form of government does not have which gives them the edge in coming to market with [new technology]"

      This is exactly right.

      The difference between China and the U.S.S.R. is America and Europe conduct business with China, and we did not with the U.S.S.R.

      If America (North America), Europe, Australia, wants to be able to ensure their continued existence as independent nations and free societies, they will soon have to treat China as they treated the U.S.S.R.

      Or they will have to bow to the will and wants of China and accept China as their ultimate master, because sooner rather than later, China will have the upperhand economically and technologically.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      It is possible that there is NO solution to appease both because of a variety of things, compromise might be the best we can do. Let Trump try, so far, it has not worked.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      O.K, I don't have a solution to the problem, but I know how we got here. It is because of corporations and their bottom line. They either farmed everything off shore or they imported to keep their profits high. We are now paying the price for that with China.

      Trump wants to bring back made in the U.S.A. He thinks he is going to accomplish it with his tariffs. However, U.S.A. labor is much more expensive than offshore labor. Therefore, in order for corporations to keep their bottom line high, they have to increase prices to the consumer in the short term and possibly the long term.

      It's like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. It is too late. Today, almost all products that are made have some form of offshore influence either in parts, or labor, or both. According to the Census Bureau our trade deficit last year with China was 419 B. We exported 120 B and imported 539 B. From January. to March of this year, we exported 26 B and imported 106 B. That is a deficit of 80 B.

      In order to balance the trade deficit from last year we either have to export 419 B of goods and services or make up the difference with 419 B of our own goods and services that our consumers would buy in a year.

      Trump just announced that he is subsidizing the farmers with a 14 B bailout. That added to last years bailout comes to 28 B. He plans on paying for it with the tariffs that are earned by our own importers. To me, he is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

      The elephant in the room with China is 5G. They are going full force with this technology that promises internet speeds and connectivity up to a 100 times faster than 4G. That means he who controls the information has the upper hand in the global space. We are also developing 5G, but at a much slower pace than China. Whether we like it or not, technology will push us and the world to a global market place.

      China has a hybrid form of government. They are Communist with some form of democracy, but their important projects are planned and funded by their government. They have a continuity of leadership that our form of government does not have which gives them the edge in coming to market with 5G.

      Some people think I want China to win the trade war. I'm just stating the problem as I see it. I'm sure what I have covered is just the tip of the iceberg.

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      I'm sure we can agree the trade imbalance with China is a serious concern.

      I would like those who oppose President Donald Trump's approach to provide their own solution. What would you do to change the trade imbalance?

      President Trump will win this situation with China, because the American economy is in a position of strength to win the situation with China. A booming economy give you a lot of leverage in trade negotiations.

      So, what else can be done to end the trade imbalance with China. It's easy to complain, it's more difficult to come with a successful solution.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Ken's points on China are spot on and Trump's strategy is going to fail because Trump feels he can win when the best that will ever happen is compromise, that he will spin as win.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Mike,

      "They are a way of a country protecting what used to be, not adapting to change. That is what MAGA is about. I also believe of survival of the fittest and if you can't adapt to change the system will eventually take you out. Do I want China to win? I don't think it is matter of winning and losing. I think it is about economic prosperity in the world market place.

      It is really the difference between economic nationalism and economic globalization and which force will prevail in the long run. I believe it will be globalization because technology promotes more globalization, not more nationalism. It is the natural order of things. Perhaps, it will be a mix of both of them, I don't know.

      We won the cold war because of Soviet containment, We were able to stop Russia from expanding and trading on the world market place and their economy failed. I believe that treaties and multi-lateral consensus are a good thing. Trump wants to go it alone, except for Israel and Saudi Arabia. But that is another story."

      I can understand anyone having this outlook on MAGA and the Trade War. Even highly intelligent people can succumb to the constant barrage of false narrative propagated by our news media sources.

      But you are overlooking one very real point I have been trying to hit home. China has its own goals in mind, and it doesn't care about the world marketplace, other than how they can serve its needs, it is not interested in the betterment of other nations.

      China has built a wall around itself with its own tariffs, so that America cannot compete there easily. China works very hard to steal technology and software from all other sources, not just America.

      China plays by the rules only so long as they benefit China, and they ignore or change the rules if not.

      America is in a struggle for economic relevance, and maintenance of its national 'wealth'... this includes its standard of living, the ability of next generations to be able to have as good or better life as their parents, the ability to maintain its societal norms.

      When our politicians passed laws and trade agreements like NAFTA, and allowed China to have a 'favored nation' status of no tariffs. We were allowing other nations to come up to our standards... at the expense of the jobs and wages of the American people.

      Don't expect China, or any other nation, to return the favor.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: I find it very insulting that you call me unAmerican and question my patriotism and yet you want me to support someone who faked bone spurs to get out of serving his country. It doesn't seem to affect his golf game does it? Your president spent 177 days playing golf while in office and the cost to the tax payer is over 100 million dollars. Here is what he said: "I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to go play golf." --Donald J. Trump, August, 2016."

      You don't set the rules in comments. If I want to make yes and no comments that is my prerogative. Again we are back at the same place. It takes time for me to answer your questions by parsing every statement. In the final analysis, it is an exercise in futility.

      I am one person with an opinion. How much influence do you think I have on Trump and his supporters? The answer is none. You are playing the game by pretending to be a lawyer asking cross-examination type questions. You are through and so am I. Go find someone else to insult.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      pp

      This is an essay not a true or false test.

      II have written a hub on it, couldn't you at least explain why?

      Brad:

      1. While you are thinking about my last comment, here is a question about America and your patriotism.

      2. Based on what we know today, were the 5 investigations on Trump and his organization, including a year-long spying on them, was it used as a political advantage of the left.

      M: No

      B1:

      5 Investigations and No Collusion and No Russians.

      The investigation never stopped and never slowed down.

      All you say is NO.

      Do you even know why the investigation started in the first place?

      I wrote several articles detailing the investigation, the obstruction issue, feel free to read them.

      My opinion is based on the details and issues, and your 'NO' is just a baseless opinion. Going after obstruction when the collusion is not found is just political advantage. And the Obstruction charges don't have any evidence, just a bunch of hearsay.

      The Russian were indicted by not found guilty of anything, so until Mueller gets a verdict of guilty in a court of law, the indictment is just his opinion.

      Mueller didn't find any new evidence from the summer through March of this year, and you don't think that influenced the 2018 election, and now the obstruction without any evidence or any way to indict Trump is not going to influence the 2020 election.

      These are the kinds of questions you didn't answer with your 'No'.

      ---------------------------------------------------

      3. And did the left refuse to admit that Trump was exonerated to continue the political advantage.

      M: Trump was only exonerated of collusion by Barr, not obstruction of justice. It is still on going.

      B1:

      And as I mentioned above, why?

      -----------------------------------------------------

      4. This political advantage influenced the 2018 midterm election, and continuing the cloud forward is influencing the 2020 election.

      Do you in hindsight believe that there was any real basis for the investigations on Trump?

      M: Yes

      B1:

      Your answer should be to tell me what is that real basis.

      ---------------------------------------------------

      How does any of this prove or disprove my patriotism? The definition of patriotism as defined by Merriam Webster, is defined as “love for or devotion to one’s country”.not necessarily the devotion to the president.

      B:

      How is working against the president, the democrat resistance which you support make you patriotic. You and the left didn't like Trump from the moment he ran for the presidency.

      ------------------------------------------

      You are again playing lawyer and I’m not going to play this game on someone else’s article. It should be on a forum.

      B:

      That is the problem, this isn't my game it is your game. And once again I don't do forums.

      The name of the website is Hubpages,not Forum pages.

      It doesn't take any writing skill to do the forums.

      Probably why you like it.

      Were done, UnAmerican because that is what you do.

      del if u wish

      This is a waste of time.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      Once again, you don't have to do anything here, but it also means you didn't refute my opinions.

      --------------

      This is an example of why I said your last comment wasn't an answer.

      "What have you said that would make anyone believe you support America, its president or its congress? Nothing. Yes, I answered the question. It is now up to you to refute it. that was always the way it worked."

      Based on what we know today, were the 5 investigations on Trump and his organization, including a year long spying on them,

      1. was it used as a political advantage of the left.

      2. And did the left refuse to admit that Trump was exonerated to continue the political advantage.

      3. This political advantage influenced the 2018 midterm election, and continuing the cloud forward is influencing the 2020 election.

      4.Do you in hindsight believe that there was any real basis for the investigations on Trump?

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad:

      1. While you are thinking about my last comment, here is a question about America and your patriotism.

      2. Based on what we know today, were the 5 investigations on Trump and his organization, including a year-long spying on them, was it used as a political advantage of the left.

      M: No

      3. And did the left refuse to admit that Trump was exonerated to continue the political advantage.

      M: Trump was only exonerated of collusion by Barr, not obstruction of justice. It is still on going.

      4. This political advantage influenced the 2018 midterm election, and continuing the cloud forward is influencing the 2020 election.

      Do you in hindsight believe that there was any real basis for the investigations on Trump?

      M: Yes

      How does any of this prove or disprove my patriotism? The definition of patriotism as defined by Merriam Webster, is defined as “love for or devotion to one’s country”.not necessarily the devotion to the president. You are again playing lawyer and I’m not going to play this game on someone else’s article. It should be on a forum.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      I am sorry, but that is no answer.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      1. President Obama was judged on 8 years of little to no accomplishments.

      M: Your opinion

      2a: You don't support the constitution if you resist the president.

      M: I support the constitution, but I don’t support the president. It’s called the 1st amendment.

      2b: He and not you is the decision maker.

      M: Tell me what else is new?

      2c: You put your party ahead of the US, and that is not love of the country.

      M: That’s your opinion.

      2. Why is the EU a false equivalence? You are vague and ambiguous.

      M: Let’s get one thing straight. I don’t like the EU. It has taken separate countries with their own currency and languages and tried to combine them into one union with one currency. They are not the same as the U.S. The U.S. has separate states and its own currency and a common spoken language. How am I diluting the U.S. Like the EU?

      4a. Once again you are diverting. The Cold War is not over because the left has from 2016 pitched Russia as if it was the USSR.

      M: Putin is trying to bring back Russia before as it was before the cold war, not our political left. Look at what he is trying to do in the Ukraine.

      4b: And they demanded that president Trump engage Russia as if it was a clear and present danger, while wanting Trump to leave Iran alone.

      M: Putin is a clear and present danger. He wants world domination at the expense of the U.S. Yesterday our F22’s intercepted Russian TU22 bombers and fighter escorts off the coast of Alaska. Does that mean anything to you?

      5. Your answer on consensus deviates from your use of it.

      "Multilateral consensus? Consensus is just a group agreeing about something, and that is not the same as facts and truths."

      M: You are right I never said consensus was the same as facts and truth.

      6. PP, I am calling you an Un American based not that you don't like Trump, but you want to take America and change it for the worse.

      M: No, I don’t. Again, it is your opinion. My opinion is that is what you and Trump are doing is for the worst.

      I didn't call you a communist, just an UnAmerican.

      M: I am not a communist and I am not unAmerican. It is your opinion.

      What have you said that would make anyone believe you support America, its president or its congress? Nothing. Yes, I answered the question. It is now up to you to refute it. In that was always the way it worked.

      M: Again, just because I don’t support Trump does not make me un American. Your logic is people who don’t support Trump are unAmerican. You and many others didn’t support Obama; therefore, you were unAmerican. You are using a propaganda technique called either/or fallacy. You are given two choices, you either support something or you are against it. That’s why you answered with “nothing” and then you want me to refute your answer. That is not how it works. It only works that way when you are trying to accuse someone of something by controlling the narrative.

      When Obama was president, what did you say that would make anyone believe you supported America, its president or its congress? Nothing. Yes, I answered the question. It is now up to you to refute it. In that was always the way it worked. Do you get the picture?

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PerryA

      What about the congress when they try to block him.

      Like shutting down the government over a $5 Billion wall budget item, on a $4,4 Trillion budget?

      Congress because of the democrat resistance since the day he became president has done nothing for America, Americans or Legal Immigrants, and you are complaining about the president. He is at least doing his job, while the congress does BS investigations because that is their political platform. How is congress doing their job. What have they done?

      Maybe you might want to answer the question I asked PP. On America and Patriotism?

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Of course, the more he tries to block whatever Congress is entitled to, the more he appears to be hiding something. It may not be an impeachable offense, but it could be criminal or with civic liability. How can republicans not have a scintilla of this same view? Is he just doing it because he is an asshole? He loves to fight? he loves to say FU to congress?

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      While you are thinking about my last comment, here is a question about America and your patriotism.

      Based on what we know today, were the 5 investigations on Trump and his organization, including a year long spying on them, was it used as a political advantage of the left. And did the left refuse to admit that Trump was exonerated to continue the political advantage.

      This political advantage influenced the 2018 midterm election, and continuing the cloud forward is influencing the 2020 election.

      Do you in hindsight believe that there was any real basis for the investigations on Trump?

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      1. President Obama was judged on 8 years of little to no accomplishments.

      2. You don't support the constitution if you resist the president. He and not you is the decision maker. You put your party ahead of the US, and that is not love of the country.

      3. Why is the EU a false equivalence? You are vague and ambiguous.

      4. Once again you are diverting. The Cold War is not over because the left has from 2016 pitched Russia as if it was the USSR. And they demanded that president Trump engage Russia as if it was a clear and present danger, while wanting Trump to leave Iran alon.

      5. Your answer on consensus deviates from your use of it.

      "Multilateral consensus? Consensus is just a group agreeing about something, and that is not the same as facts and truths."

      6. PP, I am calling you an Un American based not that you don't like Trump, but you want to take America and change it for the worse.

      I didn't call you a communist, just an UnAmerican.

      What have you said that would make anyone believe you support America, its president or its congress? Nothing. Yes, I answered the question. It is now up to you to refute it. In that was always the way it worked.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: Yes it is short enough and it is all your opinion. You didn't support Obama as president. According to you, he was a failure. According to your logic, you are responsible for his failure. And so is Mitch McConnell because he wanted to make him a one term president.

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      "Your whole viewpoint is against the US." That is your opinion. I never said that. I said I want economic prosperity. Why are you trying to make me look like I'm against the US? I love my country and I support the Constitution, unlike Trump who doesn't play by the rules and laws.

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Comparing America with Europe is a false equivalence. They have a union made up of separate countries with a common currency. They were once separate countries with their own currency We have a union of separate states that have never been separate countries and always have had the same monetary system.

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      I stated as a fact, that Soviet containment worked. I said nothing about applying it to Iran and other countries. Once again you are asking the question and then answering and wanting me to defend your answer.

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Consensus is very important and it is fact and truth, that is how people get elected. Everything in politics is based on consensus. Countries are formed and destroyed by consensus. Treaties keep the peace and when they are broken, they can cause wars.

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Just grow up. And quit trying to make me look like I'm un-American because I don't support Trump, his agenda, and I don't agree with you. I'm one person who has an opinion based on my observations and my values and belief system. You sound like a McCarthy era witch hunter trying to accuse me of being un-American.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      Your whole viewpoint is against the US.

      You want it to change from Nationalism to Globalism.

      You want to dilute America, like the EU has diluted Europe.

      The people that are diluting other countries don't want to become part of those countries, they want to be parasites and bleed those countries dry, and then control them.

      Soviet containment, but you don't think it is applicable to Iran, and other countries?

      Treaties?

      Multilateral consensus? Consensus is just a group agreeing about something, and that is not the same as facts and truths.

      Short enough for you!

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Ken: I agree with you. The country is going through a change and so is the rest of the world's economics. I also believe like you do that technology is the biggest driving force of that change.

      I also believe that technology is changing and improving at an exponential rate. However, these changes affect many world wide including are country, where many people are afraid of rapid change. They want to go back to the way things were at an earlier time and that is what tariffs are about.

      They are a way of a country protecting what used to be, not adapting to change. That is what MAGA is about. I also believe of survival of the fittest and if you can't adapt to change the system will eventually take you out. Do I want China to win? I don't think it is matter of winning and losing. I think it is about economic prosperity in the world market place.

      It is really the difference between economic nationalism and economic globalization and which force will prevail in the long run. I believe it will be globalization because technology promotes more globalization, not more nationalism. It is the natural order of things. Perhaps, it will be a mix of both of them, I don't know.

      We won the cold war because of Soviet containment, We were able to stop Russia from expanding and trading on the world market place and their economy failed. I believe that treaties and multi-lateral consensus are a good thing. Trump wants to go it alone, except for Israel and Saudi Arabia. But that is another story.

    • abwilliams profile image

      A B Williams 

      2 years ago from Central Florida

      I haven't been following this article but happened to catch Ken's comment and I completely agree....just had this same discussion around our kitchen table.

      As much as I appreciate the convenience of Amazon (on occasion), I will never stop supporting local business, Mom and Pop operations and I'll continue to search out American-made products.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Mike: " Ford is laying off 7,000 workers, when farmers have to be subsidized by transferring money from import tariffs to the farmers. It's sad when Kohl’s, Sears, Target and Wal-Mart, have sent a letter to President Donald Trump to express their concerns about the impact of the president’s proposed tariffs.

      The letter, signed by retailers that represent $1.5 trillion in annual sales and tens of million of American jobs, said the industry is concerned that any benefits from reform for retailers and families will be wiped out by broadly applied tariffs on every day consumer products."

      These changes are happening not because of a 'Trade War' but because our society is changing. People buy from Amazon.com and a variety of other online options, shopping at stores is going away.

      This is an evolution similar to when Walmart and Costco and all these other super stores put the small town stores out of business.

      A similar thing is going on with Ford, this transition has been planned for years, I know this because I once owned stock in Ford and paid attention to what their plans were, they are investing 11 Billion dollars into this transition, and the Auto-industry in total is going through an evolution... in ten years there may be driverless cars, and the majority of people may not even own cars twenty years from now.

      In the bigger picture of things, retail jobs are not 'real' jobs. Jobs that impact an economy and a Nation's future today and in the future deal with technology, industry, software... in addition to natural resources and farming.

      30 years ago America didn't have much competition in the realm of technology, industry and software... Europe to a degree... today it is American companies that are relying on Chinese made items.

      America's position is clear to those who have a modicum of understanding the basic truth that the country that makes the components, the parts, the phones and the engines, is the country can control the International stage, and the politics of other nations.

      America was able to do that for 75 years, it is abdicating that position to China, and if a course correction is not made now, immediately and definitively, it will be irreversible.

      In 30 years, China went from a country that wasn't even a thought on the International stage GDP/Trade wise, to the leading nation in the world (ahead of America).

      If America does not immediately do everything within its power to reverse direction, and return technology and industry to its shores, its remaining economic structure will be hollowed out within a decade and this will either lead to a massive global conflict or America suffering a economic downturn of unthinkable scale.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PerryA

      Thanks for the reply.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      I have already stated, I hope Trump prevails in real terms, but i suspect in the end he will claim a victory when it is really a compromise in order for both sides to save face for their political parties in each country.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PerryA

      "Why are Trump supporters so blind to the reality when it comes to this trade war. Is it unpatriotic to see things as they are not what you wish them to be?

      B:

      It is when you want China to win the trade war.

      Without the tariffs, you are OK with the trade imbalance?

      ----------------------------------

      China is like the US was just after WW2, a optimistic and productive country. Trump is just trying to make things fair, which is fine, and I hope it works. But I still do not think this is a war that Trump will win, unless he will claim compromise as a win."

      B:

      Then, let me ask you, Who do you want to win the trade war? China or the US?

      China may for economics be like the US after WW2, but they want to own the world, and that was never the goal of the US. Was it?

      My problem with the left is they just want to micro manage the president. They haven't left him alone since he ran for the presidency.

      The last five presidents didn't do much for the US, and Trump has already done more for the country than they did, in the same time period. But they didn't have the democrat resistance.

      Do you care that a failure for president Trump is also a failure for the US?

      What has the democrat resistance that is going on 3 years done for America, Americans, and Legal Immigrants?

      Thanks

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Why are Trump supporters so blind to the reality when it comes to this trade war. Is it unpatriotic to see things as they are not what you wish them to be? China is like the US was just after WW2, a optimistic and productive country. Trump is just trying to make things fair, which is fine, and I hope it works. But I still do not think this is a war that Trump will win, unless he will claim compromise as a win.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PPBrad: You know what is really sad is that you think we want China to win. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you were an adult, you would understand, it is not a matter of winning and losing, it is matter of what is best for the country.

      B:

      What would be best for the country would be to have a full functioning congress where Democrats work together with the Republicans instead of working on illegal aliens, sanctuary states, and other distractions.

      What is OK about the trade imbalance?

      --------------------------------------------------

      You think tariffs are best for the country, when Ford is laying off 7,000 workers,

      B:

      Once again, you blame president Trump, but this is obviously something that preceded tariffs. It looks like the reorganization is making it more competitive in the world market.

      "According to a statement sent to Fast Company, this organizational shift is mostly finished in the U.S. Now, the downsizing will expand to the rest of the world. As a result, 10% of the company’s global workforce–which represents 7,000 people–will be let go by August.

      “We understand this is a challenging time for our team, but these steps are necessary to position Ford for success today and yet preparing to thrive in the future,” the statement said.

      This comes a few months after General Motors announced sweeping layoffs. As part of its own restructuring, the company told employees it was eliminating 14,000 jobs in North America alone."

      --------------------------------------------------

      when farmers have to be subsidized by transferring money from import tariffs to the farmers.

      B:

      Farmers have always been subsidized in the US

      -------------------------------------------------

      It's sad when Kohl’s, Sears, Target and Wal-Mart, have sent a letter to President Donald Trump to express their concerns about the impact of the president’s proposed tariffs.

      B:

      That is because these companies sell all of the China exports.

      -------------------------------------------------

      The letter, signed by retailers that represent $1.5 trillion in annual sales and tens of million of American jobs, said the industry is concerned that any benefits from reform for retailers and families will be wiped out by broadly applied tariffs on every day consumer products.

      B:

      These are minimum wage companies, and they are selling these Chinese products, and not ours. China is a true enemy of the US, and they also make resources like batteries, and providing rare magnets that we don't have here. That makes them capable of threatening our military by depriving us of necessary parts. The solution is to get them ourselves, and not be reliant on China.

      --------------------------------------------------

      It's sad when you and Mitch McConnell didn't support Obama and he was a success in spite of what you believed.

      B:

      A success at what? Libya, Iraq, Iran, Russia etc.

      -------------------------------------------------

      It's sad when you think supporting Trump is being a patriot for this country when he is ruining this country with his agenda of economic nationalism.

      B:

      No you and others like you are working against the country, and Nationalism is America, not globalism.

      You are everything that I said you and the others like you not only by what you say, but what you do.

      It is not patriotic to do nothing but resist the president in his first term. Then you blame him for everything, not that is not patriotic.

      These articles are not patriotic, and I submit they are supporting the enemies of the US.

      What are you doing for the US today?

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Brad: You know what is really sad is that you think we want China to win. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you were an adult, you would understand, it is not a matter of winning and losing, it is matter of what is best for the country. You think tariffs are best for the country, when Ford is laying off 7,000 workers, when farmers have to be subsidized by transferring money from import tariffs to the farmers. It's sad when Kohl’s, Sears, Target and Wal-Mart, have sent a letter to President Donald Trump to express their concerns about the impact of the president’s proposed tariffs.

      The letter, signed by retailers that represent $1.5 trillion in annual sales and tens of million of American jobs, said the industry is concerned that any benefits from reform for retailers and families will be wiped out by broadly applied tariffs on every day consumer products.

      It's sad when you and Mitch McConnell didn't support Obama and he was a success in spite of what you believed. It's sad when you think supporting Trump is being a patriot for this country when he is ruining this country with his agenda of economic nationalism.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Perry A and PP

      It is sad, when "Americans" Hate the president that they are will to hope and wish that China and not the US wins.

      And what is patriotic about that? Nothing.

      You might as well be illegal aliens here, spending the entire 1st term of Trump hoping to get him impeached, or failing so much that he loses his reelection. Democrat resistance is working against the country, not just Trump. And then the democrats are going to blame Trump because he didn't do everything that he promised, Throwing away 8 years of prosperity just because Trump WON the presidency.

      And when Trump win reelection it will be another 4 years of democrat resistance.

      You are betting on the enemies of the US to take down the president of the US and aiding them.

      Sad.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Nice commentary, Ken. Agree 100%, which makes one worry about the current face off on the trade issue. We will see who blinks first. The Chinese might be able to wait for 2020, Trump not so much.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Just making a reasonable deduction, projecting into the future.

      The leadership of China, and its focus first and always on what is in its own best interests, gives it the advantage.

      They only respect international law, and foreign sovereignty, when they feel they have to... either because of economic or military repercussions.

      We can see this mindset playing out, in similar ways to how America spread out its domination throughout North America in the 1800s.

      China does not respect Japan's claims, Vietnam's claims, etc. to ocean waterways or islands.

      China accepts no immigration or refugees from anywhere, regardless of circumstances.

      China and all it does, is for China, and the Chinese.

      America on the other hand, has come to the point in its existence where it worries about 'being fair', making 'fair trade deals', which is to say its politicians answer to the International Corporations and banking interests, rather than its citizens. Our governing body does what is in their best interests, not the people, and not the Nation.

      That is why the ultimate victor in the battle for political and economical control on the international stage will be won by China, eventually. China is focused on what is best for China, America is not.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Scary thoughts from Ken, yet it will come to pass unless God intervenes with End Times.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Perrya,

      China is run by a Party Dictatorship that has the collective goal to put itself in the position to dominate the globe economically, and then militarily as needed to maintain that domination.

      [And by dominate, I mean, control the world's resources for its needs and its goals]

      Ultimately China is likely to win this battle, the initial timeline for their plans had gone relatively unchecked until Trump's Administration, they have effectively been stalled in their efforts as the American economy has revived, and their economy is slowing.

      But once Trump is out of the way, and China is again allowed to flood the American market with their products unhindered, they will again be on track to become the dominant industrial, technological, and economical force on the planet. And from that point on, America's decline will be a rapid one.

      It took China 30 years to become our equals. It will take them 10 to make America irrelevant and remove the dollar as the International Reserve... 10 years from when Trump leaves office, and the next Globalist puppet is put in the Presidency and bows to the whims of the UN and China.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      If Trump can bring China to more even trading terms, great! We will all benefit, however, China is really a 2nd superpower even with Russia, they hold leverage, as does US. As I said, it will face off until both sides can claim victory.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Ken

      Excellent points and their is also some problems with our technology being reverse engineered in other countries and then their products come back cheaper to us because they didn't have to do the R&D on it.

      It seems that too many people in the US don't look at the trade deficit that existed causing our exports to be so lopsided they are complaining as if they were in China.

      When there is a 3 to 1 trade balance in favor of the Chinese, then it seems that they are more susceptible to tariffs than the US. imo

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      Mike,

      Lets consider Shenzhen China, which is the world's new 'Silicon Valley'.

      A large portion of America's electronics (IE - Computers, Phones) and their components are manufactured there.

      As the situation had stood, American made could not compete with China made, because there had been no tariffs (no taxes) on Chinese made electronics.

      The cost of shipping Chinese made electronics was cheaper than having it made in America, and paying Federal, State, local taxes, and complying with work, environment, etc. regulations/laws.

      The goal of the tariffs is to level the playing field, so that it is more cost effective for companies to make those products in America, rather than making them in China and shipping them here.

      If a company chooses to still import, the Federal government is at least collecting a tax on the product, to help offset the costs of supporting the American people.

      The goal is to make it more attractive to corporations to build in America, and less attractive to build in China and ship to America.

      China, has always levied heavy tariffs (taxes) on American made products, making it prohibitive for American Made to be affordable to the Chinese.

      What has been occurring for more than 3 decades was a hollowing out of American industry and technology. It first was textiles and other low skill products... today it is cutting edge technology and software.

      China today can compete with America on any level of technological advance and industry, and if the 'playing field' is not leveled so that we continue to develop new technologies & biologies here in America, within another decade those corporations and the scientists and engineers they employ would shift to China and other competing nations where their leadership is smart enough to protect their national interests.

      Think about that, 30 years ago, China couldn't make anything better than America... today they make almost everything Americans use.

      30 years ago, the city of Hong Kong had a higher GDP than all of China. Today China is filled with dozens of cities that produce as much as Hong Kong.

      https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/tech/china-tech-inn...

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      Ken and Mike present solid, valid points. Like I said, it is a game of chicken between world powers.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Ken: As I understand trade imbalance, it occurs when more goods and services are imported than exported. In order to have a balance of trade, we have to either export more or slow down our importing. The other thing that is part of the trade imbalance is how much credit we have with borrowing money from the Chinese to pay our bills. They have already sold some of our Treasury bills they were holding as part of their trade war tactics.

    • Ken Burgess profile image

      Ken Burgess 

      2 years ago from Florida

      What Mike says below is accurate,

      I would add that over the LONG term (years not months) that 'extra cost to consumers' is negated by the fact that more is produced in country, putting more people to work, and strengthening the overall economy.

      To PerryA's point about the tariffs China is putting on products going to China, this too is a short-term pain that will be felt, food products can find other markets (everyone in the world needs to eat, not just the Chinese) and other than food items, there really is little that the Chinese hadn't already been taxing/tariffing to the point where it couldn't compete with Chinese made items.

      When you are running a 1/2 Trillion dollar a year trade imbalance with a country, you can't do worse. Trump by doing anything to try and counter the imbalance will almost by default improve the situation for America.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      I see, stating a fact that Trump has met his match is not supporting him? China is not going to bow to Trump's desires, it is a game of chicken and who will blink first. Meanwhile, farmers and consumers will pay as the CEO of Walmart has states.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PerryA

      The truth is that you don't think that Trump is doing anything to your standards. That makes your bias of Trump into your country being subservient to China. When people don't stand behind their president to do good for the country, they and not the president are the fault.

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      I just think trump has met his match when it comes to China for a variety of economic and political reasons. Citing how great the US economy now is fine, lets see how it is if the trade war remains or worsens. this is a face off economically. Trump's tactics may work or not but China is not going to cow tow to US easily. National interests in both countries are at stake.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      PP

      We already raised the minimum wage, what now?

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      I'm sure a quick view of current business trends will show how significantly manufacturing jobs have increased under the President Donald Trump administration.

      "In the first 21 months of the Trump presidency, nonfarm employment grew by a seasonally adjusted 2.6%. In the same period, manufacturing employment grew by 3.1%, reversing the trend under Obama when overall employment grew faster than employment in the manufacturing sector.

      Comparing the last 21 months of the Obama administration with the first 21 months of Trump’s, shows that under Trump’s watch, more than 10 times the number of manufacturing jobs were added."

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/10/1...

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Perrya: The reason American companies send their materials over seas to be assembled and manufactured is because of cheaper labor cost in those countries. Corporations are all about increasing their bottom line.

      Trump thinks it is simple thing to do to bring back manufacturing here. But because the labor cost will be higher it will increase the cost to consumers.

      They could raise the minimum wage, but that affects the companies bottom line as well. Raw materials like steel that are used to make millions of other products will have a ripple effect throughout the economy and ultimately the consumer will have to pay higher prices for goods and services.

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Mike

      Well said, they want us to fold while we have the better hand.

      If president Trump had left it status quo, China would still be getting more than their fair share of the trade.

      PerryA and the left don't care about America. They say it would affect the US importers who are making money thanks to China, but do nothing for the American exporters.

      Trump's Tariffs are a way to equalize the trade.

    • Readmikenow profile image

      Readmikenow 

      2 years ago

      Interesting article from USA Today.

      The United States is in a much better position to negotiate trade than China.

      “First off, by the numbers alone, China exports four times more goods to America than America does to China, so there is greater vulnerability on the Chinese side. The U.S. economy is strong, the next election is 18 months away, and Trump has told his base that he is going to play hardball on trade, so why not stand strong? “

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/13/...

    • bradmasterOCcal profile image

      Brad 

      2 years ago

      Guys

      Seems like you want China to win?

      And you want Trump to lose at any cost to America?

    • perrya profile imageAUTHOR

      perrya 

      2 years ago

      I think the Chinese will stand their ground even if Trump increases the tariffs.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 

      2 years ago from Placentia California

      Perrya: Good article. Trump doesn't realize or maybe doesn't care that China's government is not like ours. They are a single Communist Party government.

      Tariffs put the burden of paying for them on the importers and the consumers. The Chinese government can handle that burden quickly with subsidies to it's importers. Our government does not function the same way. Our importers will be paying the 25% on 250 billion of goods to our government via our Customs and Border Protection Agency. Trump in his tweets makes it sound like that money is going to our importers. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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