We Meddle Too
Ant Antoine
Antoine is at the Stove
Good Morning Breakfastpoppers. Today is Sunday, July 22, 2018. Our industrious friend, Ant Antoine, Is busy in the kitchen preparing Eggs au Gratin for our taste buds. I am hard at work mixing up French lattes to add to the fun. Antoine is fed up with the constant chatter about Russian interference in our election. The Russians meddle in elections. That's what they do, but we meddle too. It's time to move on and attend to more important matters. Please join us for breakfast this morning. Your input on this subject would be greatly appreciated. We hope to see you soon.
Games Nations Play
Thanks so much for coming to the breakfast table this morning. If I hear one more word about Russian meddling, I think I may totally lose my cool. Yes, the Russians tried to interfere in our last election. This point is not up for debate. They did it, they usually do it, we know it and there is no surprise in any of this. What is not being discussed is the fact that our nation meddles in foreign elections all the time. Of course, if government officials would be pressed on the issue, and if they admitted anything, they would say it is done in the interests of democracy. Be that as it may, it is still meddling.
Checkmate
Thirteen Russians and and three Russian groups have been indicted for trying to influence our 2016 presidential election. This isn't the first time the Russians tried this and it probably won't be the last. The good news is that their interference didn't affect the outcome of the election. Donald Trump became president and the left lost their collective minds. It is actually quite comical listening to lawmakers rant and rave about the Russians. The indictments came out at a very curious time. President Trump was about to meet with Putin and boom, Mueller's team indicts some Russians. In any case, the toothless indictments served to bring pressure on President Trump to call Putin out. The indictments also gave the left a new dead horse to beat in their unrelenting efforts to bring down President Trump. Why does the subject of our meddling never come up when the left rants and raves about Russia. Meddling is old hat. Our nation and other Western nations are knee deep in meddling in the elections of other countries. We support military coups, we spread political propaganda and we funnel money to insure that events in other countries go the way we want them to. It's a chess game where strategy is everything. I guess talking about it would make Congress cringe, so instead we persist in focusing all our attention on Russia. They say the truth will set us free, so let's get to the truth.
Gotcha!
The United States has intervened in the business of independent countries for years and years. Some of our meddling was very public, in that we made it known that we supported one candidate over another. Most, however, were done in secret. Unlike the Russian meddling, our interventions may have actually affected the outcome of elections. Research from the Institute for Politics and Strategy at Carnegie Mellon University has revealed that our country interfered in elections in Brazil, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Israel, Iran, Lebanon, Italy, Malta, Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, Japan, South Vietnam, the Philippines, and Sri Lanka.
While we were poking around trying to influence elections, Russia was also hard at work in France, Denmark, Greece, Italy, Japan, India, West Germany, Pakistan, Bangladesh Venezuela, Chile, Costa Rica, the Congo and the United States.
Just imagine the full scope of all this meddling. There must be hundreds of other instances that are so covert that we know nothing about them. This is what nations do. All the over the top outrage about Russia, is just that, over the top. Of course, we should do everything possible to make sure foreign entities stay out of our business, but we really have bigger fish to fry right now. If only our nation could address and solve our immigration problem. We could if the left really had any interest in doing so, but if it was solved what would they have to scream about? Instead, it's the big bad wolf, Putin. They love the subject because it gives them a chance to slam President Trump for being too nice to the leader of Russia. They call his meeting treason. I call their assertions idiotic.
The Bottom Line
Our nation has a long history of interfering in the workings of other governments. In Italy's 1948 election, the CIA helped the Christian Democrats defeat the Communist Party. We did it by handing over loads of money to certain politicians to help with their expenses. This is what we do. This is what other nations do. This is what the Russians do. We need to defend ourselves as best we can against these kinds of intrusions, as do other nations. This kind of trouble is just par for the course. The left would have us all believe that the world is coming to an end, and that President Trump is the cause of it.
The reverse is true. President Trump is trying to get us back on course. He is trying to solve long neglected problems, and he is succeeding. Can you imagine what wonderful things would happen if Congress loved America as much as President Trump and his supporters do? It is time to get realistic about how the world works. The naysayers on the left are proud to say that America was never great. They are wearing out their welcome in our nation. The Russia story has to die. Mueller's witch hunt has to end. The empty violent rhetoric of the left has to stop. It is time to get back to the business of making America great again.
Antoine's Song
Let's go children of the homeland
The day of reckoning is upon us
Against you tyranny's ugly flag is raised...
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Comments
AUTHORDear brad,
You are quite welcome!!
Pop
I hope he does!
I will say that Don is one of the few that crossed the right home territory. So many just stay in their protected friend zone.
Thanks for the dinner and drinks.
- AUTHOR
Dear brad,
I hope Don answers you, but I have to jump in here and commend and thank you for this fabulous, on point comment. See you at the Inn, drinks and dinner on me.
Don
So what. I'm American
B:
What does that mean to you being an American?
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..when Russians mess with our democracy,
B:
How did the Russians mess with our democracy? Who are these Russians?
And this whole thing started because the Democrats lost the presidency and started the Russia Trump Collusion that continues today. What is missing is that after 5 investigations including the never ending Mueller investigation, one thing is crystal clear Trump didn't collude with anyone, especially Russia.
Another thing that is clear, if there was Russian meddling in our election, it had zero affect on the outcome of the election, and NO Americans were involved with them. This is not my opinion, it is the statement made by Rosenstein.
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as a patriot, it's my duty to support actions that make it less likely for this to happen in the future
B:
Now you are a self proclaimed patriot. What did you do when Obama was president and he chided candidate Trump that there was no way that the election could be rigged. And even after when he had to concede that someone was tampering with the election, without any proof verified by the US intelligence agencies it was deemed to be Russia. Then tell us what steps Obama did to prevent it from happening in the 2016 election?
Now, you the patriot are going to do what, that president Obama should have done in 2016?
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. A few short years ago, right-wingers were being courted by lobbyists taking advantage over their fears of Russia and Obama being too weak on Putin. I know, I was part of some of those lobbying efforts. Right wingers hated Russia. Now that Trump says Putin's Ok, Russia is ok now. Odd how things work like that.
B:
Don that isn't the story! You are probably one of the many on the left that says that Russia is our enemy, and you can't trust anything said by Putin. But, why then did president Obama and sec of state Clinton Allow the Uranium One deal to go through.
Isn't that aiding and abetting the sworn enemy giving them the tools for WMD?
President Trump is keeping Putin in check by not lifting any of the sanctions. He has negotiated with Putin that Russia won't back Iran in Syria. If that happened then Israel would attack Iran. Trump has reduced that action by his intervention with Putin. Trump also took away the Nuclear program in Iran that Obama gave them. That plan only deferred, not stopped the Iran nuclear development.
Sorry Don but I not only don't see you as a patriotic, I have a hard time believing you are an American?
And no one is saying the Putin is OK, but using diplomacy as president Trump has done with Putin is a very good thing. The patriots on the left want us to get into yet another war. A war with the only country that can make nuclear war bad for both countries and the world. And that is what the left is constantly shooting for by saying that president Trump needs to have a showdown with Putin.
We have lost every war since 1898, and you want another one, Why?
Tell me why I am wrong here!
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- AUTHOR
Good Morning Don,
I don't think anyone is saying that meddling is okay. We should do everything we can, unlike Obama, to stop Russia and others from meddling. The point is that the meddling is always going on. The left is acting like morons. Trump is very strong against Russia. In fact, he is stronger than any other president ever was. What did you think when you saw and heard Obama give a message to Putin on a hot mike? What did you think when Obama was told about meddling and he told the intelligence agencies to stand down? The bottom line for me and others is that it is smart to talk to our enemies and Trump is one smart guy.
- AUTHOR
Good Morning Leslie,
I wish I could get inside your mind and the minds of others like you to understand why you think the way you do. Meddling is old news. Even the FBI concluded that it did not effect the outcome of the election. Trump won because Americans were fed up with liars like Hillary. She did nothing to get elected because she believed it was a given that she would be elected. Hillary is responsible for handing over 20 percent of our uranium supply. That is a fact. As far as the pedophile accusation is concerned, the only thing I wonder about is her and Bills's association with Epstein. Look it up and keep an open mind. I know it hurts to hear this, but Trump is a fabulous president. Just talk to people who honestly feel their lives are better.
Don,
Trump has not stated that Putin is okay or that Russia is okay. He is in discussions with them, as he should be, as President, but I am sure that he and his team are cautiously alert in all things Russia.
As for this "Right Winger", I don't trust Putin any further than I could throw him.
So what. I'm American..when Russians mess with our democracy, as a patriot, it's my duty to support actions that make it less likely for this to happen in the future. A few short years ago, right-wingers were being courted by lobbyists taking advantage over their fears of Russia and Obama being too weak on Putin. I know, I was part of some of those lobbying efforts. Right wingers hated Russia. Now that Trump says Putin's Ok, Russia is ok now. Odd how things work like that.
Pop
That is a deal.
First of all,it is cyber war. 2nd of all, of course it influenced the election!
You had people actually believing Hillary ran a paedophile ring from a pizza parlor.
You had people believing SHE personally sold Uranium to Russia, murdered Ambassador Stevens, and sold Haitian children.
How about the one that claimed the Pope supported Trump. You dont think that influences Church-goers?
I will ask again, had Iran hacked the rnc, released the information in timely fashion, and found out Hillary’s team had been meeting with them all along......you would say no problem?
I think she would have been impeached by now for conspiring with an enemy.
And magas would call me an anti American America hater.
- AUTHOR
Dear brad,
Let's face it, the real colluders, conspirators and liars are not being prosecuted. Trump is the target, but Hillary and her crew are the guilty parties. I am losing patience with all of this. Mueller should be under investigation. See you at the Inn. I'll bring the latkes, you bring the sour cream.
Pop
All True.
I would like to add that none of the alleged Russia interference changed the outcome of the election.
Additionally, the big difference here is that US Intelligence agencies were actually trying to prevent Donald Trump from being president, and failing that they tried to get him impeached by any means. They have been doing this since before the election. They also used false and unverified information gathered from the Russians to be used to prevent Trump from being elected using Hillary Clintons paid for Russian opposition paper.
That is far worse than just influencing the election. It went far beyond just influence, it went to fix the election and also spy on Americans during the campaign for the purpose of helping Hillary Clinton.
Also, by allowing Hillary Clinton to not be properly investigated the FBI and DOJ were involved in illegal acts to corrupt the election.
Latkes and sour cream, it is amazing how soothing sour cream is whether by itself or along with other soothing foods.
Hot here, political chaos doesn't make the weather here any cooler.
:)
- AUTHOR
Good Morning VNorth,
The Dems have nothing left to talk about so they invent garbage that slows down true governing, and ultimately hurts us all. I agree, Mueller's probe is a witch hunt, and the docs released to Congress make that point. There was nothing there to investigate, so they used the phony dossier as evidence. That should be investigated!
I am happy you came to the breakfast table this morning. I think you are going to like it here.
Good Morning Pop and Antoine,
The topic of hearing Russia, Russia, Russia is so up front on every news media. Turning if off is now my norm. I call it spying. America has done it for years and we all know this. I remember 1979 and the overthrow of the Shaw of Iran....we, backed the Shaw and his democratic government.
There are several things that have not been fully addressed to any satisfaction. The continued waste of public tax money when no evidence was found by Mueller's group of ???, old Hil's connection and why hasn't someone demanded some real answers...gotten them...and many more.
This is my first voyage into a Hub Page. A fantastic place to be on your own soap box and just vent.
- AUTHOR
Good Morning Pino,
If we don't move on soon, I may lose my mind. This morning I heard that Clapper appeared on CNN and admitted that Obama started this Russian mess with regard to our president. I also heard that the documents released to Congress show that Comey is a mega liar. The Fisa warrants were based on the phony Clinton created dossier. The wrong people are under investigation. We need Clinton and the investigators under a microscope. See you at the Inn.
- AUTHOR
Good Morning Tom,
I remember that quite vividly. Unfortunately, the left wing controlled media stays mum on the subject as do the fools in Congress. See you at the Inn, Tom.
POP: We need to move on. The Russian meddling did not affect the result of our election in 2016. We are spending too much time and tax dollars to prove what is not there, and I am sick of this. I believe that president Trump should put an end to this by demanding the paperwork that the FBI won't turn over, and release it to the American people to end this. I am off to the Bar. Need the Eggs Au Gratin and a glass of wine....... see you there...
Pop and Antoine,
Obama's outright hostility towards Bibi Netanyahu led to obvious U. S. meddling in the last Israeli election to the extent of absurdity.
- AUTHOR
Dear Leslie,
Meddling is a bad thing, but it is not unique. Thus far meddling has not altered the outcome of our elections.
- AUTHOR
Dear Paula,
I have to say I' m worried about the next generation. Many of them have been brainwashed. Many of them are uninformed and not the least bot interested in anything going on in our country. My fear is that we will turn into a socialist country and my very bright grands will suffer. I am heading for the Inn.
- AUTHOR
Mr. Happy,
This is what happens, like it or not. It is not exclusive to the US.
- AUTHOR
Dear billy,
You are quite welcome. See you at the Inn.
- AUTHOR
Dear AB,
If only the left would remember what we do. Sometimes I feel Like I am losing my mind. How stupid can these people be?
- AUTHOR
Dear Pamela,
Redacting mounts to lying.
So if Iran had meddled to help Hillary win, all the Trumpers would be just fine?
Somehow I doubt it.
Hey! Antoine burnt my Eggs Au gratin! I tell ya, pop. ya just can't hire good help anymore! That 8-legged little pest better watch where I walk today!
As always, you are 100% correct. Meddling, just like a whole lot of nefarious activities, has been done and re-done since the Stone Age.
No shocking news there.
Just as nearly ALL that has been brought up, highlighted, reported & made an enormous deal of, has been going on by human beings since forever. I might add, this goes for as much as we can mention in life.....not just political competition and battles! As the world turns, it's a fight to the finish. On a personal note, we may not understand this tendency caused by human nature and sure as hell don't like it, but like even Forrest Gump realizes, "--It happens." Quite obviously when it does, the forces that be, will always feel the need to run-with-it and charge the opponent. It's simply not shocking......but definitely very very annoying & time-consuming...(In addition to futile)
We have no idea when this will end. Please let me ask the obvious...Do we American tax-payers actually have any idea when anything will occur? How? by whom? for what purpose? Hasn't this always been? In 2018 why does any of this crap surprise or shock us? Has the government we elect, PAY for, depend upon,~ ever, EVER cared a stinkin minute about what we want? think? expect? need? Besides, discussing it all, objecting, complaining, writing, marching & feeling the pain....what shall we do? What CAN we do and who, how many of us are willing to do whatever it is? and when? Do many of us ever ask ourselves these questions? Why don't we have the answers?
OK fine! I'll shut up. But understand, shutting up and sitting down is WHY we've been here for centuries and will be for the next several.
When we have gone, the following generations will be here in our place. And then what? IF there's anything left of this world, the next generations better be more alert, smarter, stronger, braver, more aggressive, more moral and determined than anything we've ever even imagined. On that note, my good friends, I'm spending the remainder of my time on this earth, praying for a miracle.
Whew. I feel better. (had to say it)....Peace People, P
"What is not being discussed is the fact that our nation meddles in foreign elections all the time." - Finally, common people are talking about it now. I did mention in a past comment to You that I focused my studies in History in highschool and university on American history because I thought and still think it is important to know the history of the Empire of the day. So, I've been talking about such issues for close to two decades.
Nobody can argue that the United States is not the Empire of the day. An article from "The Nation" describes this quite well. Here's an excerpt:
"Seventy years after World War II and 62 years after the Korean War, there are still 174 US “base sites” in Germany, 113 in Japan, and 83 in South Korea, according to the Pentagon. Hundreds more dot the planet in around 80 countries, including Aruba and Australia, Bahrain and Bulgaria, Colombia, Kenya, and Qatar, among many other places. Although few Americans realize it, the United States likely has more bases in foreign lands than any other people, nation, or empire in history." https://www.thenation.com/article/the-united-state...
To become the EMpire that it is, the United States has been meddling in the internal affairs of other countries ever since the end of WWII, when it became the world's super-power.
In Guatemala, in 1954 with the help of the CIA, the United States managed to put-in a hand-picked dictator: Carlos Castillo Armas.
In 1960 the United States tried to get rid of Castro in Cuba through covert operations, which ultimately failed.
Also in 1960, the United States sent warships and thousands of Marines to the coast of Guatemala to make sure that an uprising by people there against the dictatorship would fail.
In 1963 a CIA orchestrated coup, overthrew elected social democrat Juan Bosch in the Dominican Republic.
In 1965 the United States invaded the Dominican Republic under the pretext of stopping a "Communist rebelion".
In 1973 the United States supported a military coup that killed democratically elected Allende and brought-in Augusto Pinochet's dictatorship .
Also in 1973 the military in Uruguay took control of the country's power with the United States support.
In 1980 the United States supported the military of El Salvador which ended-up with death squads and massive killings.
In 1983 the United States took over Grenada, under the pretext that Cuba was helping them to build a new airport.
Okay, this is getting too long and I have not even gotten to Asia, or Europe, or the Middle East ... but hey, we're talking about these things which is good, in my opinion. This should not stop us from talking about what other dictators are doing world-wide, be they Chinese, North Korean, Russian, or any others. Dictators are not good for world peace just like empires are not good for world peace.
Thank You for your piece of writing. All the best!
Yeah Bill, like when Obama gave tax money to oust Netanyahu
I have not written one word of outrage about Russian meddling simply because the U.S. has a rich history of doing the same. Thank you for mentioning that fact, Pop!
I think what I find most humorous (yes we must look for the humor in all of this...for sannity's sake)
The Dems behave as if Trump dug up Putin, revived him and began a new relationship, AS IF, the Dems had ended him and buried him, but the problem (the humor) is that there are multiple pictures; from Schumer to Clinton, Kerry to Obama, all smiles in the company of you know who.....
Of course we will never forget Hillary's reset button or Obama in a private...Not So Private ...'moment' with Medvedev, as his personal little message to Putin went viral, on an open mic. LOL....yes I did just laugh out loud.
Hi Pop,
I also thing Trump needs to put pressure on the DOJ to remove a great deal of the redaction on the just released papers to do with what appears to be the illegal, very heavily redacted Fisa warrant (40 pages with few words). I also need a rest - the Mueller probe is so old!
- AUTHOR
Good Morning Pamela,
This insanity just has to stop. I think Trump will have to take some measures that he has been reluctant to do. For instance, Mueller should be fired. Page told Congress behind close doors that there was no basis for the Mueller probe. This thing with Russia is taking up too much time. It's an old tired story and it is time to move on. See you at the Inn. I need a rest.
Antoine is not the only one fed up. We know Obama knew about the Russians, but he was really soft. The Dems did nothing at that time. Now they have gone nuts! I was aware we meddled in the elections for other countries, but that list is long!
The Dems also now want to look at a million documents that Judge Kavanaugh is connected with, and that is ludicrous.
Thanks for a wonderful breakfast, and I will meet you at the inn later today.
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