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What A Stark Contrast...

Updated on September 5, 2012

Last night this election should have come into sharp focus for the average American citizen. The Democratic Party, under progressive President Barack Hussein Obama, showed its true colors and the path it wants to lead us all down. Me? I'm not buying it one bit. As a member of the armed forces I labored through many eras from Viet Nam to Desert Storm and I can tell you that I never belonged to the government, nor does our military. It's the other way around.

The very Constitution that I swore to uphold and defend, and still do, begins with the words "We, the People..." and not "We, the Government..." or "They, Themselves..." or any other way they try to rewrite it. I took that oath back when many times and it was a lifetime oath, not a fleeting "if I feel like it" moment. Still haven't figured out what I'm talking about yet?

Here's a short clip with words that should worry anyone of either political party and those in between. I use this particular clip with Clint Eastwood to emphasize the starkness of the way our servants are seen. Or maybe I should say the way they should be both seen and treated. Obviously our Democratic servants see thems not as servants but as rulers. You don't "lead by ruling." At least it has never been that way up until this juncture.

Go Ahead...Make My Day

My theme is what Clint said and Obama fails to understand: "You, We own this country." The whole political climate on Capitol Hill is centered around their egos "thinking" that the very servants we send to the nation's Capitol to do "our" will belongs to them. "We, the People..." own everything in our nation's Capitol down to the cushions they put their lazy butts down on when they bother to go to work. That attitude has so permeated the nation's Capitol, especially the Democratic Party in view of that video clip, that every last pompous ass up there needs to be run out on a rail. Talk like this does not sit well with me.

Being a public servant seems to be a thing of the past. Now it's more kin to becoming a public sleazeball.

We all don't "belong to the government" as we are not subjects, nor are they Kings, Monarchs or Dictators . We are citizens and the government belongs to us. You don''t owe any allegiance to a federal government, it's the other way around. Our Founding Fathers had to be flip flopping like flounders in their graves when they heard the words in that clip. What is interesting is that Team Obama immediately came out denying any part of the video saying the Obama campaign was "unaffiliated" with it. Is what I'm hearing is that neither the Obama campaign nor the DNC had any knowledge of the contents of that video before it was shown? Really?

Ask yourself who serves who? The attitude, and it is plainly seen on display by the typical career politican, is once they are elected they don't want to hear from us again. Why? Because they then know better than we do because we were stupid enough to send them there in the first place. Then we compound their atttiudes by continuing to send them back decade after decade? They lose sight about the concept of being a "public servant." We suddenly have become the "servant and the subject." Something is wrong with that picture and needs to be immediately corrected this election cycle beginning with the firing of the Big Government Guru himself - Barack Huseein Obama.

This sort of theme reaffirms the fact that "You didn't build that. Somebody else did." was not taken out of context at all. Obama believes that the government is the creator of all and the answer to our problems. We all belong to the government? It's the only thing we all belong to? Go back up and read what President Lincoln said about government. Obama likens himself to Lincoln but there really are few, if any, similarities.

We just whistled by $16 trillion of national debt. Now that the citizens of this nation own thanks to the continued efforts of a large federal govenrment to spend our money, money we don't have. Not a word, not even a peep, was heard last night on that convention floor concerning that remarkable Obama achievement. One third of that debt belongs to Obama and he made history by overspending that much in less than four years.

With one sentence the Democratic Party has now stood the US Constitution on its head. All of what they are presently about should now be in sharp focus for the electorate. So you want to be a subject like the colonists were to King George III? You need to be beholdened to the government you see? They create the prosperity that we are experiencing all around us? If you believe that, just how stupid are you?

That one sentence personifies the attitude of too many of the elected officials that park their butts in political careers their whole life. Get this straight. We do not belong to the government. The government belongs to us. Abraham Lincoln had it right. Barack Obama has it wrong as usual.

Yes my fellow Americans, the Democratic Party has been thoroughly hijacked by the Progressives. People keep trying to intertwine the words "progressive" and ";iberal." If you aren't aware of the difference you had better open your eyes.

Lets Close With A Video About "It's Always Someone Else's Fault..."

God bless America. We need it at this point and the Creator of all is not mentioned once in the DNC platform. The word "God" has been stricken from the record.

As Always,

The Frog Prince

Remember In November!

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    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Sir Frog - You made my day :)! Ooo, project. Can't you just see my jumping up and down in glee. This is going to take a bit. But, man, talk about something that could get juicy. THANK YOU!

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      I too saw 2016, and all of a sudden, all of Obama's weird decisions make sense if he is truly living his father's dream, which was to cripple countries like the US, Israel, and the UK. It also explains why the POTUS is now bowing to royalty.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      poetvix - You have my permission to use an literary license you find necessary in performing your civic duty :)

      34th - We'e known each other for a long time. I keep advising every citizen of this nation to go and see 2016, Obama's America to gain an understanding of his dislike of this nation and our institutions. They owe it to themselves and their children and future generations.

      The Frog

    • 34th Bomb Group profile image

      34th Bomb Group 5 years ago from Western New York State

      WAY back up this thread I read a young woman commend Obama on his straightening out our place in the World. Apparently, everyone who has gone before the Anointed One f'd it up and only HE our SAVIOR has made peace with the world.

      I want to gag. NO AMERICAN bows to foreign despots and NO ONE TOUCHES the Queen of England. In those two instances the clear line is drawn between those who know how to do things and those who do not.

      One other point - RETURNING WINSTON CHURCHILL??? What a kick in the teeth to the British.

      You need to wrap your head around world affairs darlin' before you state your opinions as truth and treat the rest of us like a bunch of bozos.

      And I don't give a shit about your drug addled husband.

      Finally, clean up your grammar and learn how to spell.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Sir Frog - Thanks for writing this wonderful article that for me, on top of being ten kinds of cool and correct, has also been fascinating from a behavioral science perspective. I feel the comments here illustrate the basic components that make up the psychological mind set, the fundamental differences between the left and the right. I have become so enamored with this little theory of mine that I would like your permission to quote them in a hub I would like to write illustrating further and with great detail and specificity exactly what I am contending.

      Can I have your permission to quote extensively from this fine piece, more specifically from the coments? Can I, can I, pleaseeeeeeeeee???? :)

      Oh, and I just had to share it on Facebook with all my other friends who are also very interested such such ideas.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      A little truth, disguised as humor, is sometimes good medicine :)

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      That was funny, Jim!

    • TexasLadyJuanita profile image

      Juanita Holloway-Walters 5 years ago from Kemah, TX

      Frog Prince: BUhahahahahahahahahahahaha, Seriously, LOL!

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "I did notice something . . . or did I? . . . does it seem that the dark powers that be have pulled the plug from under Obama? So many liberals badmouthing him and calling him a liar for example. OR did they decide to just not spend the $$ on Obama because they have something more sinister in mind?"

      Obama has committed the ultimate political sin...he has become boring. Gone are the Greek columns and leg thrills. Gone are the fainting women. He is yesterday's rock star, and unless I miss my guess, he will lose in November.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      Will - Here's a great video to explain the liberal brain :)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SsftsZD6Vg&fea...

      The Frog

    • TexasLadyJuanita profile image

      Juanita Holloway-Walters 5 years ago from Kemah, TX

      WillStarr, my son is 33. He and his wife are conservative. We are in the Houston burbs. Most of their friends are liberal and in their 30's. My son talks to them and they, like children, want what they want, and they want it now. I don't think that rule that once they get on in life they turn Conservative is working any more. But hope springs eternal . . . My blood pressure is not raging like day before yesterday on this hub. Today, my heart is heavy with the weight of what is to be so up in the air.

      I did notice something . . . or did I? . . . does it seem that the dark powers that be have pulled the plug from under Obama? So many liberals badmouthing him and calling him a liar for example. OR did they decide to just not spend the $$ on Obama because they have something more sinister in mind?

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      poetvix - It is often obvious to me that people like AYM have never read the US Constitution as they go along spouting off about the ills of the nation. Many of our present ills stem from allowing our politicians to stray so far away from the guiding principles of the law of our land. A good example is the military. Many yound people, or older people for that matter, have no clue that the primary role of the federal government outlined in the US Consitution revolves around the military and our defense.

      You're right though. Rather than study history the younger generation and uneducated in the masses want to be spoon fed information. They then become a propagandist's dream. The likes of Obama and his type are thrilled. They are like putty in his hands. Just say it and it becomes so.

      The Frog

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      In defense of smart, young liberals, let it be noted that most mature to the point that they can see that their liberalism was based on emotion and not logic. That's why most smart, young liberals become conservatives with age and wisdom, so give them time.

      The stupid liberals, on the other hand, never wise up and never mature either, so don't bother with them. You're wasting your time.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      An AYM –

      “They waste our money because we want everything… because we froth at the mouth for the military like it's important.”

      In your comments to another, Will, I think, you talk about such wastes as police and fire. OK. So, by your own logic the fire department is a waste. Be sure to send them a memo that when where you live catches on fire not to come. Be sure to tell the cops when you are held up, or God forbid whatever crime happens to you, (see they are on the upswing too) that you don’t want them to be there for you, that their sacrifice to Americans is but a waste. Be sure to tell all those underpaid, hard working Americans that they are a waste.

      Next time an American soldier, (you know the ones that tend to be very young men that are giving up the American party lifestyle so they can misguidedly, according to you, protect the ideal of freedom and the free Americans they love), dies protecting freedom, be sure you sent him or her a memo letting them know your feelings on it. You see they still die to this day so you can come on web sites like this one and use your right to the freedom of speech they died protecting. My relatives, my ancestors, served and some died so that you could enjoy that right. On behalf of them all, thanks for the respect you show those who fought and died for you.

      You bring up the Native Americans, of which I am one. My great grandmother came straight off the reservation. You see she thought America was a great place. She knew her history and she knew her ancestors were slaughtered by white Europeans. She also knew they were all dead and buried long before she was born. She knew that this was a country where a dirt poor reservation girl could work hard and achieve a higher standard of living, could be free to make the world around her a better place. She knew because she did it. She knew she was able to do it because this had become a true land of freedom where women could succeed. Did she ever experience discrimination in her life in the backwoods of MS as a red woman married to white man? You bet she did. She didn’t whine about it. She overcame it. That is the spirit of America. An America that included her just as it includes me now and you.

      I think she would be offended by your comments as am I. You bring up old history to prove that America now is evil. There are bad things in the history of our nation. Guess what. There are bad things in the history of all nations. Long before the “white man” put the Choctaw on a reservation the Chickasaw had raided, slaughtered and taken their women as slaves. If you want to use history as a lame argument to support the whinny, leftist, anti-America mess you are spouting, LEARN IT.

      You state to multiple hubbers in this thread that you will not read the Affordable Health Care Act. You wrote something to the effect that it’s too long and full of legalese. As a teacher, I’m here to tell you, do your homework. Someone old enough to go to college and have a job where he works on a computer all day should not have to be told that. It’s a primary source by the way. You keep driveling things from secondary sources which is considerd inferior form, as it were. You should know that by now. You see, most of the people on this thread have read it. They are very well educated. They worked hard over years studying the things they are talking about. In fact, I suspect, they are paying now for thousands to go to college so like you¸ they can not read one of the most important pieces of legislation affecting our nation. College in California is expensive. If you have ever taken a single dime of financial aid to get that computer job you have, you are benefiting off the exact same systems that you are complaining about and the hard work of the loyal Americans who paid into the system so you could, including those found here.

      In conclusion, you state “I think the shame is that they don't teach us this, and that you have to go looking through books yourself.” Welcome to higher education and being a responsible American citizen. It’s called learning. The goal of education is not to dump information into your brain but rather to teach you to research and find information for yourself, to be able to evaluate said information and form a reasonably correct determination of its validity or lack thereof, and then, critically analyze it to use it as a tool to form your own opinions. If nothing else, your arguments here have proven that the American educational system has grossly failed you in that regard by your own admission that you are not willing to put in the effort but rather expect it all to just be spoon fed to you as it was back in Kindergarten.

      You keep going off about the hypocrisy of the American system, yet you are part of it. You benefit from it just as do all the rest of us. Guess what. It goes on in all nations and has since the dawn of time. People are not perfect but rather than harping on all the problems of the past in an effort to divide a free people it makes much for sense to suck it up and work to solve the real problems facing the nation such as the very real assaults on the Constitution, that little document that guarantees you are free to speak and we are free to own guns contrary to your statement that, “We think we have a right to guns because we have access to them.” Again, I say…READ. LEARN YOUR HISTORY AND THE DOCUMENT THAT ENSURES YOU CAN CONTINUE TO RANT, not just the parts that support your arguments.

    • TexasLadyJuanita profile image

      Juanita Holloway-Walters 5 years ago from Kemah, TX

      Sorry for the bad typing. I think you know the words that are typed wrong.

    • TexasLadyJuanita profile image

      Juanita Holloway-Walters 5 years ago from Kemah, TX

      Wow! My eyes are much better today - a lot written here since I added a small comment. Yes Frog Prince, you are right - they can't stand for me to disagree with their policies, and they call me racist so the dummies will call me racist.

      I too ended the conversation day before yesterday, but after reading have a comment in general: The Ideal of Utopia is very Christian, and we are promised that in eternity. The distinction is this, Utopia on eing arth is impossible because all men have a sin nature. When countries go through violent civil wars (except us), as in the Middle East, the citizens who wanted their ideal of "democracy" were sincere, but unorganized. The organized thugocracy was in the wings - very organized - the Muslim Brotherhood is in charge, and not those that were desperately doing an Arab Spring moment. Thanks to Obama's meddling, there will be Sharia Law Enforced within the month. This happens because people have a sin nature, and the nature of goodness is possible for those of us who wake up every day and choose goodness.

      Even today, our Republic is the best thing on the planet, but it is eroding before our very eyes because the bad guys are pushing "democracy." We are a Constitutional Republic. If you actually read current events and compare them to the Constitution, you will see how far off course the current administration is taking us. In the Healthcare Bill is most of the government re-structure. Democracy is by definition, Mob Rule - and that leads to Marxism. Why? The Mob gets violent, and good people like you and I historically beg the government to take over and solve our problems for us - - - we are being pushed to our limits because those in power are trying as hard as they can to force us to violence. Why it isn't working? Because we are free minded. Those of us who are over 50 know our freedom, and are not the ignorant masses who will fall into the violence trap. These thugs in government are sooooo pissed, because they thought that we would turn violent already. We are not behaving the way the rest of the world behaves, and they just don't know what to do. The rumors of a False Flag to stop the elections may or may not be true, but the fact that the left is so determined to turn us into a socialist state, and due to what we have already caught them doing, makes that False Flag idea believable. I suggest you pray and convince everyone you know to not fall for violence or a False Flag event.

      Romney is not perfect but a conservative Senate will be able to keep him on the good road. This is our only chance to keep the free Republic that you have taken for granted.

      The enemies hold on you is one of "guilt." As long as they can let all the liberty ignorant across the border, and as long as they can keep poor people dumb and on the dole, AND AS LONG AS THEY CAN MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING FREE when the rest of the world is falling apart - they will win this, and if they do, the world will fall into a depressing darkness. They don't call The Dark Ages, The Dark Ages for nothing. Read your history. What makes it all so different this time? There is nowhere for those of us who understand our freedom to go. There is no Galt's Gulch that I would give my right arm to find on earth. This is where I am different from the other Galt's Gulchers - I would live it here on earth if I could, but because of that sin nature, there is no paradise or Utopia on earth - it is not possible with so much sin nature uncontrolled with our Judeo-Christian values stomped in the ground - AND YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE IT INTO EXISTENCE (OR EVEN with an EXECUTIVE ORDER).

      No, I will not arrive there until I am with the Lord. I can try to talk you out of your "democracy" that is socialism and has been proven for centuries that it doesn't work - but you are lost and do not want to be found. Unlike my good friend Dagny, I understand people better than she did. I have watched the decline of honor and goodness for so many years now, I just don't know why I can still barely believe that people will willfully choose the bad road. At least half of America do not cherish life, they are anti-life for sure.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "That Police and fire protection - while lovely - are another expense that you don't ask for that also dictates some portion of your life, denotes it as also contrary to the notion of "Freedom"."

      But we do ask for both and willingly pay for them both, as necessary protections.

      Obamacare is none of the above, and is clearly unconstitutional despite the shockingly wrong judgment of the SCOTUS.

      In any case, it's a huge new tax burden on all of us, making Obama a liar.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      "When the majority of people don't want fire and police protection, you might have a point. The majority of Americans do despise Obamacare and want it repealed." is quite literally out of your mouth/fingers.

      That Police and fire protection - while lovely - are another expense that you don't ask for that also dictates some portion of your life, denotes it as also contrary to the notion of "Freedom". Therefore it's not a big jump to point out that you just said that they're okay because the majority opinion favors it. Hence the Freedom and Popular-Opinion parallel.

      I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm connecting the dots that came out of your mouth and pointing out the frustrating nature of them.

      I just want you to be honest that it isn't an issue of freedom but that it's your personal opinion. I, extremely consistently, see people either hate or praise an issue based on a fictituous backbone of "Freedom" without seeing the incredibly obvious fact that a lot of good things in America aren't necessarily supportive of freedom.

      But I suppose that's how it goes because we perceive freedom as just whatever poses the most benefit to us as an individual.

      I have to go off to work, but I have enjoyed arguing and for that I thank you.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "You just quite literally paralleled Freedom as equaling Popular-Opinion."

      And you have developed quite a knack of putting words in your opponent's mouth.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      If you had managed to read to the end of that post you would have seen that I said I am already doing that. I work full time and go to school full time for that exact reason.

      How do you keep missing the point so hard? The point is freedom as a concept! You acted like this is an issue of freedom - that THAT'S the problem, yet right here you say the problem is that most American's don't like Obamacare. You just quite literally paralleled Freedom as equaling Popular-Opinion.

      The only one thing I want is for you to admit that this isn't an issue of freedom. You just don't like it for whatever your personal reasons are - and that's cool, we all have opinions - just stop acting like it's some noble quest for the heart of america. Justice, freedom, yay slogans!

      And yeah, I'm with you on education.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      When the majority of people don't want fire and police protection, you might have a point. The majority of Americans do despise Obamacare and want it repealed.

      BTW, yes, the feds ought to get clear out of education, because ever since they got in, it has gone downhill. When education worked in America, it was run by moms and dads at a local level, not by faceless bureaucrats.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "And yes, people are stopping me Starr because all land is owned by someone, and that only changes hands with money."

      We are free to pursue happiness, but we have no right to be happy. If you want that cave, save your money and buy it like everyone else, and stop whining about ownership.

      We are never going to be the society of your dreams because it's not human nature, so make your choices and learn to live with it.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      I am going to read about things, and I try to read both sides of it. But I'm not going to read 2,700 pages of legal jargon.

      That's the atrocious detriment it has dealt to your life - you think it might be expensive in the future? Do you think this will be somehow harmful to literally everyone? Or do you think it stands to sincerely benefit some individuals?

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      Read the bill and get a grasp on what is about to occur as more of the steps in Obamacare are implemented. Read a bit, research a lot and answer your own question. I do not want the federal government in between me and my health care providers. It is an intrusion. The cost of Obamacare is 3 times what Obama said they will be. If you don't think as those taxes are implemented that your bottom line is going to go down and health care costs will rise then you are living in a fairy tale.

      The Frog

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Then please tell me how Obamacare has had a giant horrific impact on your life, and that it's the majority?

      I had an HMO before, I still do. My world has remained exactly the same - but if I didn't have insurance I would be pretty damn excited to have access to it.

      How does this monstrously affect your lives?

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Honestly - yes Frog Prince, that does sound good. But it wasn't happening? I'm happy either way because movement in one direction means movement, and if people get angry enough that'll probably change. That makes me hopeful that it can change well. I just can't understand why everyone takes to the world with pitchforks and torches in their mind because someone actually did something. When something doesn't work, change is good.

      And yes, people are stopping me Starr because all land is owned by someone, and that only changes hands with money. So at least you can rest easy knowing that the one thing I strive for with work and school is to make my happy exit.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      AYM - There is a distinct difference in "a minor inconvenience" and an intrusion into your personal life. Your strawmen seem to be becoming more ridiculous as you create them. We're talking about the law of the land, the US Constitution, being applied by an over reaching federal government. Again the powers of the federal government are enumerated in that document.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Costs also soared when patients started looking up more for themselves, which is a good thing, but also a bad thing. This resulted in a lot of people saying "I need this" which was a big part of prices soaring.

      Starr, the reason I wanted to use one particular example in terms of relating it to freedom is to point out the "Minor inconvenience issue". You have a world of things forced on you. If you didn't want anything forced on you, you would be an anarchist and not pay taxes. Your concept of freedom is based in convenience.

      Example - Police, Public Education, and Firefighters are also technically forced on you without your consent, but we like them so it's not such a big deal. If your big deal was the concept of "Freedom" as a whole you WOULD probably want to live in the wilderness. If your issue was that someone is somehow minorly inconveniencing you would probably just jibe about what you individually don't like while ignoring the rest.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      AYM - I know what doctors say about the drivers behind the high cost and neither of the primary two were addressed in Obamacare. Again, during the health care summit Obama said one thing and we saw another. The first driver is tort reform. That needs to be done and everyone recognizes it. The opposition to that is the trail attorney's lobby. Powerful lobby when you have attorneys dealing with attorneys or former attroneys. The second driver is not allowing the free market to operate by allowing insurance companies to market and sell across state lines. Factual drivers that physicians have explained and politicians like to ignore. It is all based upon money and the onus doesn't lie solely upon ionsurance companies.

      The Frog

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      ". You want my view than yes, I think we should be living in an intelligently organized Agrarian society."

      Then go for it. No one is stopping you. The rest of us are free to live the way we want.

      Problem solved. That was easy.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      As always, when government gets involved, costs soar. When did medical costs suddenly rise? Right after the introduction of Medicare. Check it out.

      The majority of Americans despise Obamacare and want it repealed, but the Dems shove it down out throats anyway. They are forcing it on us.

      That is not freedom.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      I'm not denying that I haven't read the whole bill. If you have then really, many kudos to you Frog Prince, you're part of a very very very small percentage.

      I'm not saying this is our grand fix-all but I am curious what you think the right choice would have been. Doing nothing was clearly not a good solution. You're all so angry as though the system wasn't crappy. We're not tearing down a work of art and replacing it with a turd sandwich, it was a turd sandwich to start and we're trying to do something different.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      Sassy - The bill was crafted behind closed doors, contrary to what Obama said was to occur. It wasn't posted for 5 days on line before the vote. Again, something Obama stated was going to happen. It was the most non-transparent legislation ever written in our nation. 2,700+ pages of crap is exactly what it is.

      Obama said many things, made many promises and the majority of them have not happened. The lists are out there and will be used in the upcoming debates I would hope.

      The Frog

    • profile image

      SassySue1963 5 years ago

      @AYM smh They did not skip it, they were denied the opportunity. Not the same thing. Pelosi arrogantly stated "you'll have to pass it to see what's in it".

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      No need to memorize AYM but I do have a knowledge of what is in the bill and how much of it has nothing to do with health care. Again, read it. You are using a straw man argument. You asked what is wrong with it and I gave you the basic essentials.

      The Frog

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Hmm, I'm sure you have the whole 2,700+ memorized. Politicians from both sides skip out on reading what they should, which IS ridiculous, but it happens.

      What do you propose should have been the solution? A big part of the unrealistically high healthcare costs is our own irresponsibility in over-using care. What are we to do to try and make things reasonable when we can't act responsibly?

    • The Frog Prince profile image
      Author

      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      It's over 2,700 pages AYM. Start reading. The Democrats rammed it through withpout any of them having read the bill. Or is that acceptable now too? Pass legislation withpout giving people a chance to read what they are voting on. What a novel idea.

      The Frog

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      I would sincerely like your thought on the final part of that question WillStarr, why do you personally dislike it?

      I am not a guilty liberal - I loathe both sides of American politics. You want my view than yes, I think we should be living in an intelligently organized Agrarian society.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      I had intended to when it came around, and unless I had the wrong papers, that document comes in at just under 1000 pages. I'm not going to read it all myself, and I have my sincere doubts that you have too. We are all relying on talking points to an extent. Do you believe the system was good before? Was healthcare anything but a joke beforehand? I would rather we take steps to do anything, even if it isn't the best at first, than flounder in ineffectual senate debate. That way things can be directed and improved over time.

      Admittedly I am more interested in philosophically jabbing WillStarr, and if you don't want in your comments section I will certainly oblige and ignore that.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      You are fee to live in a cave gnawing on bones, if you think your standard of living needs to be diminished to that of third world countries!

      That's freedom, so go do it!

      You can go the sackcloth and ashes route if you wish, but don't whine about it when others don't buy in to your silly liberal guilt! Just as you are free to be a guilty liberal, the rest of us are free to strive for a better life.

      Sheesh.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      AYM - Time for me to chime back in too. If you are a believer of the US Constitution, which I don't know, then it is easy to answer your question about Obamacare. The role of the federal government according to that document is 1) limited and 2) enumerated. In otherwords it has its limits using specific guidelines found in our founding documents. If you haven't read the Constitution before, and many have not, you need to do so as a citizen of this nation.

      The role of the federal government is not to get between you and your physician. That is extremely personal. Obamacare does exactly that. Obamacare is going to have a detrimental effect on the younger people of this nation whether they realize it or not. Taking it a step further, way back in this thread it was pointed out a lot of people talking about the bill itself have not read the bill. They are using talking points. The bill is not about health care at all. It is about government control of 1/6th of our economy. I suggest that you actually read the bill if you have not.

      Then you will see why a majority of people still oppose Obamacare and want it repealed. It's a matter of educating yourself and not relying on some one to do that for you via talking points.

      The Frog

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      An AYM 5 years ago

      Jeebus you're shallow. Yes, I am the real hypocrite. I only ride a bike even though I own a car, I try to only buy from within my community when possible, I try to make a consistent effort to be as responsible and good as I can, but because my job quite literally only involves working at a computer I am a terrible hypocrite. Please, tell me more about myself because you're clearly the expert here.

      The standard of living IS absurd. If it's not sustainable then it's absurd.

      Humor me. Why does the thought of "Obamacare" make you upset? Why do you feel that your freedom is being restricted? Implicate your definition of freedom into this situation so we can come to a clear understanding.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Because freedom as I see everyone interpret it here is "The privilege to do whatever you want, whenever you want"."

      Ah! No wonder your view is so skewed.

      Freedom and liberty have nothing to do with exploiting others. Look up the definitions and get back to us.

      Seeking a better life and standard of living is not absurd at all. In fact, the fact that you are whining about it on the hi-tech internet using your hi-tech electronic device exposes you as the real hypocrite!

      Think about it.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      The big hypocrisy that it's built on that frustrates me is that anything that might slightly lessen our own freedom provides us a valid enough excuse to take the freedoms of others.

      What makes me angry is that we love to shoot our guns in the air and hoot about freedom even though we believe our freedom is more important than other freedom. We care about never having to be told what to do. All I want is honesty - we don't care about "Freedom", we care about getting to live like spoiled children.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Because freedom as I see everyone interpret it here is "The privilege to do whatever you want, whenever you want".

      Exploiting others gave us our absurd standard of living which we now somehow interpret as a right. In our world we're unable to make decisions or move things without money and that is in high circulation because of our actions. Exploiting others made us free because exploiting others gave us access.

      We think we have a right to guns because we have access to them.

      We think everyone has a right to a giant home because we have access to them.

      We think we have a right to deny a policy which could benefit a larger number at only the most minor of inconveniences to us, simply because we think it's our right to never have inconvenience.

      We think we have a right to live however we please - which simply doesn't work from a realistic perspective - because we have everything already.

      Exploitation provides money. Money provides access and 'things'. Access and things provide freedom because access and things provide options and leisure.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "You seem to think I'm wrong in saying that our freedoms were built by exploiting others. "

      Explain how exploiting others makes us free.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      You're still just completely ignoring the point.

      You seem to think I'm wrong in saying that our freedoms were built by exploiting others. You've said nothing to the contrary of that, just half-hearted justification.

      I'm not mixing unhomogenous fruit, I'm giving you specific examples that support my point of us hurting and ruining other people for our own benefit, and then acting like high-fiving ourselves over loving "Freedom" isn't hypocritical.

      Freedom was not a new idea when the Founding Fathers wrote it in. And I feel it reasonable to point out that at the time that freedom did not extend to say, slaves or women.

      I know we don't agree with eachother on how things should be, I just want you to recognize and admit the hypocrisy we sell.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Our freedom is founded on a new idea that our Founding Fathers had, not on anything you are crying about, and that freedom extends to all people.

      Neither does our freedom depend on what dictators or religious fanatics think of us.

      You are mixing apples and oranges.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Then at least that means you admit that our freedom is hypocritically founded on taking it from others? The reason that it's okay to conquer land and kill others for it is because "At least we weren't the first"?

      I'm aware slavery has been around for centuries and that LOTS of people have been enslaved. Once again - just pointing out that it was an important foundation to giving our country its economic heft. Just because our end to slavery was so violent doesn't make it specifically more noble than countries that did it without violence. I don't see any points from you that we didn't build our freedom by exploiting others, just attempts at justifying it because "We're not the only ones who did".

      I admittedly don't know the story of every middle eastern country, but I will let you know that the reason Iran is so pissed off at us is because they weren't happy to do so. They were invaded by the allied forces when they were neutral in World War 2. When they tried to nationalize their resources so the benefit could actually go back to the people, we ousted the politician responsible for spearheading that change. There's a difference between world trade and twisting someone's arm till they give you something.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Most Indians had no concept of land ownership. They were nomads who moved with the food supply and claimed no land as their own. In any case, all land, everywhere on Earth had been taken by conquerors several times over, so who does it really belong to?

      Slavery has been around for centuries, and more whites have been enslaved over the years than blacks. In any case, the country that gives you the right to spout off, is also the country that fought a bloody war to end slavery, once and for all. Where's the credit for doing that?

      Those who sell us their resources are only too happy to do so! Do you expect the Arabs to drink their oil? It's called world trade!

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Good Morning, Okay let's see I really have no idea where to start. The truth is everything I have written, is what I believe from the bottom of my soul. I tried to talk to everyone personally because I believe that is proper etiquette when having a conversation. I did not dodge issues, I have spoken from the heart. It is strange how anything I say, that comes from my brain, my fears, my thoughts, as a human, as a mother, as a wife, as a woman, that ALL of you have some lude comment to make. The R's have always talked in catch phrases, so every arguement I make, every worry I have, they have beat me to the punch and gave it a title, lile "the race card" No matter how you people spin it, the reality does not change. I could type a book here, I could personally take on each comment, break it down, give facts figures solid answers, but I am not wasting anymore time here. I can tell that no matter what I prove to you, you will have math from an alternate universe or some catch phrase for an answer. OR I could even use the R method and just anihilate your guy Romney. But, instead, I am going to spend the weekend with my family. My 4 yr little one is about to start a dance class so we are going shopping in about 5 min's for tutus, My oldest daughters fiance has a big game tonight, and tomorow as always, our family gathers for a meal and time to catch up. These are my priorties, this is my value system, I support and believe in everything we have spoken about here and I am just so sad that not even one person HEARD me. I have been insulted and practically cussed out at every corner, I have had a woman in my own age group and generation accuse me of using my beliefs in women's rights and my fears about women's health issues as some sort of political tool. I have been the punching bag in this comment section and stood on my own and kept my cool and tried hard not to go as low as some of you. I have not condemned you for your beliefs only told facts about my own. I can say that I am proud of myself for handling myself with dignity and pride while trying to convey a message but everyone has their minds made up, Obama can be the scapegoat for all that has been. Well, as from the beginning, the country is divided in half, so who ever wins this election will be close, so if my guy wins I pray your fears are not true(chains, socialism, etc.)If your guy wins, I hope my fears are not true(same broken economic model making the rich richer and the poor poorer, losing my rights beginning with my healthcare,and a road to a country where the poor live in tent cities outside the walls and gated communities of the wealthy.God Bless each and everyone of you:)

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      SassySue I realize we aren't the only ones bad to the environment, but the fact is that we are completely awful to it and describing us as making every attempt to preserve it is heartbreakingly wrong. There isn't a lot of competition in terms of doing it worse.

      Nearly everyone I've known (And I've only ever lived in America) has believed meat is the main part of every meal. I am not a vegetarian but I keep it to maybe once a month because the amount of resources that has to go into sustaining that is mind boggling. How many millions of cars do we have on the road? How many of them are giant SUVs and Hummers so we can preserve some shallow sense of American machismo? How many people actually ride a bike or bus? How many people actually try to focus on consuming products that don't have to fly around the world to get to them? Just because we have environmental legislation (Which gets put in place because we ream it too hard) doesn't mean we're environmentally conscious.

      And yes I do think the military is pointless. And no they didn't preserve my freedom of speech because the last military engagements which actually threatened America were the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.

      A big part of the terrorist threats that face us is because of our regrettable behavior. And terrorists are small groups - they're not whole countries. I don't believe you need hundreds of billions of dollars and however many millions go into military service to deal with small groups.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Where do I get such trash?

      From the get-go we started out by taking the land from Native Americans and killing them. We got great economic clout from slavery. We spent the better part of each world war as war profiteers staying out of it while selling arms. We exploited the resources/people from South American and Middle Eastern countries for more economic gain. We still have American companies in foreign countries paying crap wages to make the most money possible off of others.

      I think the shame is that they don't teach us this, and that you have to go looking through books yourself.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Our freedoms have always been built on the backs of the exploitable. "

      Where do you get such trash?

      Good Lord! What are they teaching our children?

    • profile image

      SassySue1963 5 years ago

      @AYM No one wants to take any rights away from LEGAL immigrants. It is a question of ILLEGAL immigrants receiving benefits born of the tax dollars of working Americans. And they do. Make no mistake about it. Some even abuse it, like the tax credit for children, claiming children out of country and even making children up that don't exist.

      As for the environment side, you speak as if every nation of the rest of the world lives in perfect harmony with nature. You do realize how untrue that is correct? As a nation, we make every attempt to preserve nature while using the resources we need. We even have laws about it and what condition the land must be left in after use, but sometimes, the two will be at odds. No one can deny that. We cannot have zero impact on the environment, it is a fairy tale. The goal is to have as little impact as possible and we do attempt to meet that goal. If you were specifically referring to Global Warming, you should do a little more reading. It is a natural cycle of the Earth itself and while we most surely have sped the process up, we are not its cause. Even the most devout scientists of Global Warming say we cannot stop it no matter what we do.

      You don't think the military is important? Why is it do you think that you can say such things? Do you think it just happened and voila! it is forevermore? It is the military that has protected your free speech. Do you understand that in a time when we are facing terrorist threats all around the world, Obama is cutting our military to the bone? Who do you think is going to protect us then?

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      Holy cow. That's a lot of text that comes up quickly.

      To PoetVix:

      The president doesn't determine the actions of the people. When I talk about America acting atrociously that role is very heavily shared. I come from an environmentalist perspective. The U.S. has a childishly high standard of living which we all seem to feel we're somehow entitled to. We get the world handed to us on a plate and live like royalty, yet the moment someone might even slightly infringe on that entitlement there's hell to be had.

      I have little interest in issues of the economy when all I see around me is the practiced skill of purchasing pointless things and spending beyond our means. "They waste our money" because we want everything. They waste our mouth because we froth at the mouth for the military like it's important.

      The spirit of freedom as a concept to the nation is littered in hypocrisy. Our freedoms have always been built on the backs of the exploitable. How can you be angry about less freedoms and leniency to immigrants in the same thought? Am I so off-center as to believe that the point of "Freedom" as a cornerstone is that it should apply to more than whoever was there first?

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      SassySue1963 5 years ago

      See, now I have to chime in yet again.

      Tammy you say "I remember why it's so bad do you" when referring to the economy. Do you, really? For instance, are you aware that Democrats held both Houses of Congress from 2006-2010? Do you realize who does what in this country? Are you aware that the bubbles that burst under Bush had their fruition under Clinton? Are you aware, that one of the major contributors to our debt is the trade deficit and it turned on its head under Clinton? The GOP has their share of the blame as well, not giving them a free ride, but the blame Bush game doesn't work for those of us who've been around any length of time. Somewhere up there you speak of 4 million jobs created. Eh, not exactly hon. Sorry. It is a net of only 300,000 and a large percentage of those are Government jobs. Not public sector jobs like policemen, firemen and teachers but actual Government jobs like his Czars, IRS enforcers (we need them you see, for that mandate tax) and the like. Government is the only area that has seen an increase in jobs under Obama.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy – You state “What is this whole rant on christians paying for abortion? I completely agree, I even capitalized, abortion should not be covered. But yes, annual gyno visits, apprpriate testing, yes this stuff needs to be covered, pregnancy, ultra sounds,ETC. Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights, and if you want to sit down and let that ride that will be on your conscience.”

      HELLO. You’re the one championing your lord Obama and his saving of the poor, his helping of you all. The only piece of legislation he has ever passed that was evenly loosely veiled to resemble something fitting that description was Obamacare. You have been singing his and its praises. It calls for the mandatory participation of all, including churches, in insurance premiums some of which will be used to pay for abortions. You state you have researched the issues. If that is true, then you know those are undeniable facts. If you don’t know they are, then you have not researched.

      You state that you are only trying to “share your beliefs” yet you repeatedly have dodged major points in rebuttal to go straight to the same old cards of racist, champion of the poor, and fictitious assaults on the rights of women. You say ultra sounds, gyno visits and other stuff should be covered as if it never has been. Oh yea, been covered for a long time. You can easily obtain a policy for women’s health. It costs more but it’s way less than Obamacare is going to cost us all. Women have never been denied any of these services. They just had to pay for them. It’s called a free market economy. We have also had hospitals that do all of this for free or reduced sliding scale payments and pay outs over time all along. Now, granted the prices have gone insane and the medical system having become a corporation has to be fixed, but Obamacare does not do that. It exacerbates the problem. Again, research, primary sources, undeniable fact, dear.

      You keep talking about the needs of women, the needs of single mothers and the poor, obviously trying to garner support from females on female issues. I’m female. I don’t want to be sucking on Obama’s tit. I’m not going to sit back and silently watch you or any other women make a mockery of the freedom women have sacrificed so much blood for over the generations. We fought and bled to be able to think for ourselves, to be able to stand up and take care of ourselves. You would have us subservient and dependent upon “the man” just as we were and still are for some dependent upon a man. We can afford ten to twenty bucks a month at Wal-Mart for birth control pills and fifty once a year for the clinic to get pills if we want them. We can’t afford to make a mockery of the very real abuse against women that still continues to this day in an effort to elicit a feeling of camaraderie from our own gender at the expense of our independence.

      When approaching me and others in comments you have been very good at singularizing your arguments to the individual. It’s a great tactic. It’s used in sales all the time. You were so quick to call me young and then backtrack. You were so quick to assert I came from wealthy parents or even had parents making said assumption based on the face I went to college alone. You were so quick to assume Will is a bigot even going so far as to call him an “Archie Bunker.” I’ve followed him for I guess over a year now. He’s anything but. That man understands more about the rights, problems of and issues facing women than you ever will. All you have to do is but to read his western fiction to see the themes of justice for all that run through his soul.

      You do this because in your attempt to sidle up to him, just as in your attempts to sidle up to me your mistake was in misjudging who we were to start with so you aimed your side ways arguments incorrectly thinking to hit on issues that would pull at our hearts. You did the same thing to Texas.

      You apologize for this and say you respect that, yet keep pushing for an administration that is doing the things you are supposedly sorry for and destroying respect for everything America was built to stand for. These are things such as destroying the economy by exponentially exploding debt while purposefully strangling small business, the backbone of the American economy, and instigating class war fare as defined as those making over 250k a year as compared to the rest of us which we all know is chump change in the overall scheme of the money running this country and being robbed to be wasted and sucked up. Purposefully instigating racial, gender, and perceived economic status psychological and sociological warfare upon the people would have to be included in that list too. You have to see it considering your earlier comments about division and racism.

      And further, I’m going to tell you, I almost never take these comments on hubs personally but you have truly pissed me off. You state, “Vix, aren't you worried about your rights? What is forceable rape? Does that mean if your date raped but the guy doesn't beat the hell out of you then you will have to have his baby?Do you believe insurance should cover your birth control?

      Why would anyone want to start tearing at our rights?Hmmm:(“

      Your divisionary comments about women being raped and tying that into political arguments in support of Obamacare and the left are so much more offensive coming from you than a man. You see, I don’t take the comments men make about the subject near as seriously as the ones women make. The sexes are different and they can never truly understand how a woman feels to be physically dominated by a man. Granted, men have been raped too but mostly by other men. It’s not the same. But you can. You’re grown. You should and I believe do know better.

      You’re an Obamabot willing to sell out your gender, every woman that has ever sacrificed for us girls, every one of us girls that still is being abused, all of us, for a few pills and a ultra sound picture in exchange for our independence and right to decide. I pray to be able to believe you are blind and ask for wisdom for you over calling you out for the oppositional, freedom sucking things you are spouting. So far, I’m just ticked off about the hypocrisy, mockery and whininess of it all.

    • profile image

      bobspunkin 5 years ago

      Frog Prince, another great post, hub or whatever this is. I am new at this so bear with me (you notice that I use "bear" correctly?) I skimmed over the comments and one thing I wanted to say to Tammy was this (someone may have said it already but it's my turn now): when my son was in middle school, one of his classes was "health". He came home to tell me he learned all about birth control and one of the methods was abortion. We are a born-again Christian family and we agreed that we didn't agree. Anyway, as middle school progressed when both kids were there, a young member of our extended family became pregnant. It was a wake-up call for me. Just because I had instilled Christian values in my children didn't mean they would necessarily make the choices I'd want them to make. I sat them both down and said that even though I hoped and prayed that they would wait until marriage, that ultimately it was their personal choice when the time came. I told them BOTH that I considered having sex was an adult decision and as such, they needed to bear adult responsibility for their choices. I told them that if they didn't want to end up pregnant (or the girl pregnant), I expected them to take measures to help prevent that from happening. Please be aware that sexually transmitted infections were not what they are today. When my son made his decision, he was responsible. He bought his own condoms. When my daughter made her decision, she went to Planned Parenthood and got birth control pills. They are very reasonable at PP and it includes an exam. Now I know there is a lot of hate thrown at PP but they DO offer real birth control, pap smears, mammos, etc. as well as abortions. That is an argument for another day. As someone else commented above, even today you can go to PP and get them at a reasonable price and I don't understand why I have to pay for your choice to have sex! I expected my kids to take responsibility for their own bodies and now I have to pay for yours? Why? It has nothing to do with hate or racism....it is about being responsible. Birth control is not an illness; it is a pro-active step we take to prevent pregnancy. I should not have to pay for your decision to prevent pregnancy. Thanks for reading.

      Frog Prince, I didn't address the points you made but you were spot on!

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      tammy - The users here have ya pegged to a "T." Not liking Obama's socialist policies is racist you see Juanita.

    • TexasLadyJuanita profile image

      Juanita Holloway-Walters 5 years ago from Kemah, TX

      Just popping in for a moment. The race card is the biggest lie anyone can not only swallow, but by pushing the idea to others is proof that ideas are not thought through to completion. 3/4 of the U.S. is white 13% is black. White people decide who will be president, and they voted for a black man with a silver tongue when his teleprompter works (he even took it to an elementary school room) who promised hope, change, TRANSPARENCY LOL!! among other things.

      When he loses it will be by a mandate of white people who regret voting for his kind of Socialistic, Marxist change.

      You can't have it both ways :) White people don't give a flip about his 1/2 blackness. White people want a good president, and they will rally around the best candidate. Period. Nothing to do with race 4 years ago, and nothing about race this time.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - Dear, freak out? LOL. Calling you out is a far cry from freaking out. I'm barely awake. Tell ya what. Let me grab a cup of Joe and let's dance. You seem to like endless debate based in trash and rhetoric. I bore of it typically, but I have nothing else to do right now more pressing so feel free to continue throwing up purposefully misleading, evidence lacking, distractionary, emotive arguments and I'll have some fun poking holes in them.

      I'll even give you a head start. Why don't you name just one thing Obama promised to do and actually did. Just one.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Vix why are you freaking out. I guess typed words do not come across as the way they were intended. I can not imagine the pain of having my father taken from me, or my husband. That is unimaginable pain, there are no words. You should be proud, of them and yourself. I have only been trying to share my beliefs with you, I'm not sure about the chains part, but I can see us living in a place that looks and smells and is trashed like India, that's my deepest fear. I have meant no disrespect and apologize from the bottom of my heart if you thought otherwise. Goodnight

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - Thanks but no thanks. Save your kudos, proud of's and I'm sorry for someone else. I'm proud of them and I'm proud of me. They taught me to tell the truth. The truth is your guy is burying us all. I don't believe you don't see it. You argue too well. I hope when you sleep, if you can sleep, you continue to dwell within your dreamland, if you really believe this swill you spout, for when and if you ever wake up and realize it was you, people just like you spouting this mess, that landed America in chains you will know who you have to blame. It will be the first time a leftist took responsibility. The crack in the Liberty bell will look miniscule compared to the one in the mirror. Feel free not to speak to me again.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Will, I pay for mine, I'm sur your family does as well, we are not po folks, thanks to the good lord above, let us not forget that, WE didn't build anything that was not comissioned by Him. Those with much should give much, we should not expect that the building we call church could possibly clean up this mess. Good greif, I'm exhausted, it's late. I will pray for you all as well as our country. I really just wish the people would see....

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Will, insurance is not free stuff, we pay for it?"

      Then why is government telling us that 'access' now a 'right'?

      'Access' in liberal jargon means 'free'!

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Will, insurance is not free stuff, we pay for it?

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      College day care, well we don't have an inexpensive college daycare here, no it was going to cost about $250 a week, and I actually wanted to see them and do homework with them and you know raise them, myself. I am proud of your mom, I had a single mother as well. I am very sorry about your father, can't even imagine.It is fantastic that your father sent your mother to school, wow, that is awesome, like a true love story. What you are doing for a living is awesome. You are making a differnce in people's lives and my hat is off to you for that. Vix, Obama did't dig the hole. He could have done more for recovery if they would have approved a tax on the top, just a fair one, like we pay. Vix, the economy will not work without ALL of us working, full employment in economic terms. It can't be all cuts, it has to be taxes and I know you guys know this. I am so proud for you and your mother, let me say the hardest job I have ever had is being a mother, and it pays absolutley nothing.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights..."

      We have a God-given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

      We do not have a right to free-stuff, including our medical costs.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - If my parents had money, I wouldn't have had to work three jobs. My single mother raised me after my father was murdered and never took a dime. She worked her ass off nights so we could eat. She drilled in my head to work my ass off and then help others for she felt that the fact my father worked his ass off to send her to nursing school meant she should spend her life repaying it by helping others. I learned that lesson. It's why I have worked with the disabled for so long first on a behavior modification level in group homes and a brief stint in a nursing home where I saw up close and personal just how much the government cared about them. I now work teaching disabled children. They want to work. I help them get jobs among other things. I also connect them and their families to things like medical care and other support services. You would not believe the abuses of the system I have seen over the years. Do you have any idea how many kids have to turn down jobs because mommy is not about to give up that government check she had herself set up as payee on before the kid turned 18. The kid now has to go along and often stay in school til they are 22 to stay w/ mommy so she can still suck up her check though I have a job offer on the table and they want to take it. Granted, there are many children who need those checks. I want them to have them and fight on behalf of them to get them. It's getting to be a harder fight every day. It's only been recently, under this President that I have seen this population being cut off more and more. HCS services are virtually non-existant now. Families with no transportation are doing without medical care because the specialist they need have gone out of business in their town or are no longer accepting Medicare. This administration made those cuts and spawned Obamacare which is fueling this.

      No, I don't have two kids. But, I know what I would have done. I would have done what one of my best friends did with her three kids. She put them in the college day care and worked two jobs while she went to school and did without. God love her. I know. I helped babysit them when I wasn't in class. She's now supporting six kids and still working her tail off. She's never taken a government dime.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Wow, I am the one USING this arguement, okay, OBAMA is the guy who broke everything . I am happy for you for looking so young, do you have kids? See kids cost some money, hun. I give you loads od cudous for feeding a child, and especially working in a horrifyingly sad and harsh field. I worked in that field for awhile myself. Yes I know our econmoy is bad and I remember why, do you?

      What is this whole rant on christians paying for abortion? I completely agree, I even capitalized, abortion should not be covered. But yes, annual gyno visits, apprpriate testing, yes this stuff needs to be covered, pregnancy, ultra sounds,ETC. Women's health is a huge issue this season, and hun, I will fight for my rights, and if you want to sit down and let that ride that will be on your conscience.(wow, and I did't have to call you names or anything)

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - Mammograms? Really? You want to go there. OK. They are covered under most insurance programs now. Further, if you look around, you can get one for free, thank you Breast Cancer Awareness Program. You see there are huge buses that go around and do them right there in your local community. They are really neat. It was too cool to take the tour when they, for several years in a row, came to the school I work at to offer them, for free. Funny, they haven't been around since Obama took over. I heard something about their funding got cut.

      Thanks bunches for the compliment. I'm 45. Mother nature kicked in some time back weather it shows in the face yet or not. Save the alarmist mess in relation to old age to someone that didn't watch the elderly drop like flies. They are dropping now. They can't afford AC or groceries. I know a kid whose dad is a disabled vet. He got three various monthly benefit checks from the government. NO ONE IS MORE ENTITLED AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. The kid came to see me recently because he was hungry. He knew I would take care of him and no one would know. You see under your glorious President, the kind and compassionate savior of you comatose drones, his Dad's three checks were all cut. Mom is working full time for minimum wage and Dad is cutting yards where he can though it's going to kill him. Of the three kids one is working and giving every penny to help pay the rent. The one that came to me is hunting a job like a fish hunts water. The oldest is slaving to feed his own family and sharing the food stamps his wife gets for their four kids. The illusion that this administration is helping the poor is nothing more than that. The truly poor hardworking Americans are the ones suffering most while parasites that could work but won't for minimum wage suck up tax dollars.

      As for forcable rape remark. Rape is rape, hon. No is no. This too is just another form of distractionary mess. It matters not if the guy leaves you bleeding and broken on the floor or just holds you down or drugs you and you wake up pregnant. The horror, the violation, the humiliation, the assertion of dominance for no reason other than sadistic pleasure, it's all the same and the real pain lives inside long after the bruises fade. Again, it doesn't have anything to do with Christians being forced to pay for all abortions and you know it. There are only three ways to ever deal with rape. Repress it and hide within, be a victim all your life. Stand up for yourself, fight as hard as you can, drop or die, or get knocked out and then go after the SOB when you come to, or prosecute and be mind raped by the left dominated legal system. Still, its all ugly but it not a hill of beans to do with paying for an abortion. You mix issues to blend a wretched brew. You are a disgrace to real, honest, moral American women with your loose tossing about of a truly evil plague upon women to further a political argument. You make me sick.

      Read the constitution if you are able. No where in it does it say you have the right to health care. Ask a woman who stands up for herself and she will tell you that you don't have the right to use a issue that is very personal to so many as a weak weapon to shoot off at the mouth with zero evidence to back up your claims. Oh, but while I'm thinking of it. Thanks bunches for seeing this hub got so many hits. I love the Frog and seeing this take off it ten kinds of cool in my book.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Vix, when you were doing school and working 3 jobs, did you have two kids? Did you have the load of work that comes from being a mom. I have always said there should be tight regulations onthese programs just like all other businesses. There should be time limits, and job training available. See when you actually have to build yourself from nothing then you are going to need some help. Have you seen prices of daycare? All I can assume is you had parents with money, if not I apologize. What would you have done Vix, if you were me? How would you have worked those three jobs and raised two children, well I might add, Would you leave them with your parent's? Regulations, I say it all the time, without them foodstamps rise and wall street drives our country into a BIG ditch!

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - one more thing. College takes years. I know. I have multiple degrees. I worked three jobs to pay my way as I went working full time and going to school as I could. I never took a dime and did without many a night. That's one of the undeniable differences between left and right. Right breaks their asses to do it for themselves. It's called pride. I could so I did. I'm all for short term assistance to any who really need it, God knows I am. It has been proven time and time again our support systems such as Welfare and Food stamps have become generational. You got off. Good for you. Most don't. There are studies going back over three generations to prove this. It's a form of economic slavery designed to keep the poor poor. If you really want to help, you give a hand up, not a monthly hand out. Do you have any idea how many Pell grant recipients take the money and drop out before the end of the semester? How many only get the money as a scam with no intentions of being educated? Vast numbers. Somehow, I find it hard to believe you don't know all of this. Yet, you love to stir the pot by calling for sympathy when what is needed is direction, guidance and a return to the traditional values of self reliance, community and excellence rather than settling for letting the nanny state be your Daddy. If you really cared about freedom for women you would see that. No one is more enslaved to the system than single, impoverished mothers. I know many who took temporary help and fought their way out of poverty to continue working their tails off. I know many more who are very content to just suck up the monthly check because that is what they have been conditioned to do.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Vix, what man are you speaking of? WOW, okay let's see, how about mammograms, should insurance cover that, do you have the kind of money to stay healthy hun, cause I think you look pretty young, let me tell you after forty your body is going to start kicking your ass.I like the way you skirted forceable rape there , but that is some wild language, don't you think? And come on people, I have never said , let me be clear, NEVER thought abortion should be covered by insurance, come on, really. By the way, do mormons believe in birth control? Not sure, just wondering, I know catholics do not.And yes honey healthcare is by goodness a right! I live in the wealthiest land in the world where the best doctors on earth live, their oath should be enough or is that just for show?They shouldn't be out there driving around in porches and paying no taxes when your tax bill is smaller than that of their mid income client! Not only the rich should be able to afford to live.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      And it still comes down to free-stuff or free-dom.

      You can't have both.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Kudos to poetvix!

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - No, I do not believe insurance should pay for my birth control. Further, I'm sick to death of this BS mess about the war on women in relation to health care. I had an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured and I almost bled out before they could get me on the operating table. I was only one year married and very young. I had no health insurance. It wasn’t that aweful long ago. I went, or should I state more accurately was rushed to one of the best hospitals in the state and there was no question at all that they saved my life. My husband gave them a very small down payment as they were wheeling me into emergency surgery while he was running to keep up and sign the documents. We paid out the bill over time. When younger I went to clinics many times and always got treated and paid a fair amount. Birth control is cheaper than beer or cigs, condoms are less than a soda.

      As to forceable rape? Remember, you are talking to a woman here, not some innocent little girl speaking only from theory and what TV says. Let’s look at the Muslim groups Obama throws millions at. Even you can't deny all the honor killing of young girls, the rapes, the forced marriages of children.

      I have worked with disabled individuals for over 20 years. I have never, ever, in all that time not been able to hook them up with medical care until this last year! Good luck finding a decent doctor that's still taking the government pittance. Thank you Obama care and all you little drones that sing its praises.

      Laws regulating abortion can and will do nothing other than insure 12 year old girls die on bathroom floors. It's been going on since the dawn of time. There are laws to prosecute rapist and the President forcing the rest of America to pay for abortions doesn't stop the rape that already happened. It only infringes upon the rights of those who don't want to support it due to religion which is their Constitutionally guaranteed right to be able to practice freely. Abortions are not that expensive and very few who use them out of the total are actual rape victims. Why should anyone be paying for the others?

      Health care is not a right. It's a service. Rape is not a political tool and hearing that kind of divisional crap from a grown woman is down right shameful. To be totally blunt, speaking from experience, the answer to it is to do your best to drop the SOB or die trying! Save your instigational remarks for someone that does NOT see through them and someone who does not really care about the rights of women for I am not the one to buy it.

      Too many women use abortion as a means of birth control. Too many women, such as yourself, are screaming for the “man” to take care of us. You insult every women that has ever been raped, every woman that ever took a beating so some whiny girl could have the right to vote, could have the right to speak up to a man, could have the right to a job. GROW UP. WAKE UP. DON’T WASTE MY TIME WITH THIS PACK OF LIES!

      It is exactly this type of purely emotional, devoid of logic diatribe you have driveled that generated the gender biased stereotype that woman were intellectually inferior to men. THANKS BUNCHES FOR GIVING FUEL TO THAT ARGUMENT!

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Who, let's see, I was working in a photography studio when I fell head over heals in love with this very charming young man who sold real estate...OH yea man, string me up, I am a harlot! I got married and had two children with the love of my life and at no fault of mine or my beautiful daughters my husband became a crazy drug addict. Have I tried to put him in jail, no. The man owes me $60,000 on the books, I always took the stance that as long as he had some connection in their lives they would be healthier women phsychologically. This is just who I am, I have enough, I am blessed, I want to do something amazing that makes my life worth living, and building this country into a new competitive modern day place that makes China look small, sounds like history in the making and I want that! I am happy to be successful and I want others to feel that way. Constant struggling makes people cold and bitter and nonproductive.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "The ones who used to be me frog? I made $6 an hour at a sandwich shop while raising two kids with no help from the father, no family money I'm afraid. My rent was $500 a month, I brought home $650, yes God was there with me, but pell grants put me thru college and food stamps fed my kids."

      And who made the bad choices that got you into that situation?

      Society used to have moral standards that prevented such situations. It used to be that having a baby out of wedlock was frowned upon, and a father who abandoned his children either married and supported the mother or he went jail until he did!

      I believe in compassion, and we have helped those who have made mistakes, but they have to take responsibility too. Society needs to go back to the days when there were consequences for getting pregnant out of wedlock. It is devastating to all, but especially to the children.

      BTW, the abandonment of those moral standards is the work of Godless liberals.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Tammy,

      Obviously, you need to understand the terminology. Playing the race card is done by claiming that opposition to Obama is only because he is black. The race of the accuser doesn't matter at all!

      In the end, it all comes down to this:

      Do you want free-stuff or free-dom?

      You can't have both!

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Here, okay let's see, you are born and your a crack baby who has been left in the dumpster, you are found and taken to the proper facilities(are those places still being funded under Romney) Did this baby need to get off his ass and get a job?Frog I can tell you stories that will curl your hair, people not born into loving or wealthy families do not get a shot man. Without some steps out of the ditch, the ones that could be tomorrows scientist and inventors do not get that opportunity. The ones who want to sit on their tale will seal their own fate frog...what about the rest? The ones who used to be me frog? I made $6 an hour at a sandwich shop while raising two kids with no help from the father, no family money I'm afraid. My rent was $500 a month, I brought home $650, yes God was there with me, but pell grants put me thru college and food stamps fed my kids.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      All one has to do to "have their shot" is get off their ass and take it. What a crock of shit tammy. Oh woe is me is what I hear. Like I said the conversation is over. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

      The Frog

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Thanks for calling me a loon frog, my family IS responsible and we love helping others. I want to live in America that everyone has a shot at the American dream, sorry you guys find helping people repulsive. I can tell how intelligent all of you are, I just wish Mitt was as smart as you guys because Obama does not have the campaign funds this time, I believe Romneys outspent him like 3-1. and since half this country really only wants to protect themselves and screw everyone else. It's sad man

      Vix, aren't you worried about your rights? What is forceable rape? Does that mean if your date raped but the guy doesn't beat the hell out of you then you will have to have his baby?Do you believe insurance should cover your birth control?

      Why would anyone want to start tearing at our rights?Hmmm:(

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      Angry? Hardly. I think the left wing loons in life more than likely outgrow that fate. Not all do but many do. It's called being responsible for yourself, your family and your actions. Anger isn't in my forte. I just am amazed at the stupidity I see around me as an idiot like Obama cons people. That's your gig, not mine.

      Bye tammy. The conversation is over.

      The Frog

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Frog, be angry all you want dear, I have had my history lessons I assure you and I want you to research the totla amount of jobs created by the presidents, you will see for yourself my friend. I was around and yes very young, sitting on my papaws knee, he was hard core republican, lord he worshipped that man, but now we all know that Iran got all those weapons from him so he could be the hero that retrieved the hostages that poor ole Jimmie couldn't. You think you know everything Frog, you all need to turn your remarks on yourselves, do some research that doesn't support your rhetoric, I already do that man, I make up my own mind, I said earlier, I live in TN, you know, blood red state, my WHOLE family have been republicans their whole lives, and the ones befor them and on and on, I am a self thinker my fried. Obama has handled our foriegn affairs like a pro, Obama found Bin Laden and gave the order, he brought home the troops, as he promised by the way, and he has created 4.5 million jobs without a working congress. Stop being a degrading jerk frog and just listen to me, why would I try to hurt you? Have you read anything I have written, can't you see what kind of person I am. You may be older frog but your not smarter and I don't like being talked down too sir, and I will respect your opinions and you need to respect mine, and we all need to find the middle and quit this crap and grow up and fix the country instead of playing freeze out with Obama, his jobs packaged would have created 2mill new jobs, but no they shut him down! It is the republican party and congress to blame for our slow recovery and you know it! Not one penney for new taxes, misers!!!!!

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - "Obama has the philosophy that WILL work. It is the perfect prescription. No, it will not be fast enough for this mcdonalds, I want mine, generation of people, BUT, that does not change it from being right. " Really, can you please define the exact specifics of that plan? Are you currently connected to a crack pipe?

      "So, if we have a president that evens the field this is when we the people can do stuff! We can get our kids out of the mall in college in jobs, prepared, mentally, physically, spiritually, we can build a country that we are proud of to be sure, but also a safer place for us Americans, US the people." God Lord! You sound like a flipping TV ad. HOW? None of that is happening. Fewer are going to college under this President. They can't afford it. Tuition rates are up by leaps and bounds across the nation. "Can have jobs.". Seriously? Hello, unemployment up not down. Way more up than is statistically skewed numbers show and we all know it.

      Sorry, I tried. Your either so far in stoned out la la rainbow kubaya hippyville to see through the haze of propaganda or your a mouth piece. Either way, I'm out.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      tammy - You obviously weren't around when Ronald Reagan became our President. If you were you were hiding under your mama's skirt. You make some really outlandish statements without any back up. Your creation of jobs remark is a prime example. Tammy, I actually know some of the people on this thread. They are much older than you are as I am. We lived through what you want to spin without basis. Study history and talk to the people who lived through some of the idiots you idolize.

      Obama is unqualified and inexperienced. Biden and Hillary Clinton both stated he wasn't qualified to be the POTUS. He isn't, wasn't and we see him for who he is. Take a look and stop trying to convince people that you know what you are talking about. You nned to start researtching and above all thinking. Try it.

      The Frog

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Vix, I was truly trying to talk to you like a girlfriend. Okay, It was meant to be funny that Bill got in because of his looks, and he does remind me of a Kennedy, however, No I am not some hickory nut that adores Obama. He ticked me off right away when he let those tax breaks ride, AGAIN. I have no rock star fantasies I assure you. I do believe this is about race, the people with the money, you know the ones who get really wealthy when there taxes are nill and regulations aren't in check, they own what used to be your party. Bush was a boob, an obvious talking ahead, and when he won, not once but twice, I became afraid for the country, and guess what, low and behold I was right! Now, Obama has the philosophy that WILL work. It is the perfect prescription. No, it will not be fast enough for this mcdonalds, I want mine, generation of people, BUT, that does not change it from being right. When people work together it is amazing what can happen, it also creates a goodwill amoung Americans that can spread and help our name in the global community, but we still have to be ready to stand up for ourselevs. Don't you see that the money makers running the show, who have spread filth all over the tvs and radios and internets, every evil imaginable can be found, learned and accomplished, every sin in the bible, all the traps have been laid. So, if we have a president that evens the field this is when we the people can do stuff! We can get our kids out of the mall in college in jobs, prepared, mentally, physically, spiritually, we can build a country that we are proud of to be sure, but also a safer place for us Americans, US the people. If another talking head like Romney, who his own party don't even want this man, can be pushed thru then all the taxes can be cut for the top, who don't create jobs by the way, little fact, did you know that D's have created more jobs than R's, it's a fact, look it up, then deregulate so the air and water is unsafe, all for the mighty greed of MORE for them and less for everyone else.

    • The Frog Prince profile image
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      The Frog Prince 5 years ago from Arlington, TX

      PV - I will associate one name with Barack Hussein Obama though there are many - Georoge Soros. The left wing loons can ignore that one connection al they want but I recommend they research George Soros. I have. It isn't pretty.

      Then there is the race card. I have opined about the left's use of the race card many times before. The bottom line is that when they are losing the debate, based upon facts mind you, that card will come out as the card of last resort. That tells the whole world that they have lost the deabte.

      The Frog

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy – OK, the crux of your argument as to why the vast majority of Americans that are vehemently opposed to the actions, policies and direction of President Barack Hussein Obama, or Barry Sotoro, or who knows what other name, is for no reason other than he is black. There exists no other possible answer and all of these people must fall into this box of racism. What red neck cracker fools they must all be. Hm? That logic leaves out those who are not white and feel that way. It’s not an insignificant number of Americans.

      Tammy, the assertion that that many people are all operating off the same premise is statistically a mathematical impossibility. Clumping huge groups of people into a predefined category, or box, such as racist, is the exact same thing as doing it to any other group. It is the essence of discrimination. It is what allows for stereotypes. The very ideology of acceptance you so obviously embrace IS NOT what the Democratic Party leaders and those who automatically relegate anyone who disagrees with them into a labeled box is about. It is the antithesis of tolerance.

      You mention in a much earlier comment not addressed to me being “pumped” and in the comment addressed to me you talk about how “amazing” the President was, how “oh, he’s just so handsome” in regards to Bill. By the way, he kind of is. This too is part of the deception, the subtle brilliance that is misleading millions. Look at those comments in isolation for a minute. With all due respect, for you seem a really kind hearted person who cares, you sound like a twelve year old girl talking about a rock star. I’m not saying that to be mean or insulting, honestly. I’m saying it to point out that you are right. These are very charismatic men. He is powerful. He is smart. He does have balls. He does know what he’s doing. He’s destroying this nation.

      You talk about him being the champion of us against the global elite. Who do you think is the major money behind him? What has he done with the money of the people? He gave it to businesses owned by his biggest supporters, worse businesses that he and everyone else knew would fail so they in turn could give back huge chunks of money to his campaign, yet again. He gave millions of our dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood. Do you have any idea what they have done to women and female children throughout the world?

      Tammy, if you truly care about people, don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to anyone, especially the people you are so enamored of. Try an experiment. Research not the things from your own side but go to the other just for the purposes of critical analysis. Try your dead level best to disprove it using only documented facts from primary sources. Look to voting records, primary sources, not news reports. Look to reports outside the USA. If you really look, the evidence is overwhelming that this President does not want America to succeed.

      It has long been said that Satan is beautiful and the road to hell is wide and millions shall pass through its gates walking upon a pavement of good intentions. Be wise. Do not be deceived.

      Sir Frog - I apologize for taking up so much space here. I could not resist the pull to speak out!

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Will, haha man, you make me laugh. I am not a black woman dear so I'm not sure exactly how I can place the race card, how funny that you think it's okay to say that, you really are Archie aren't you. Look, I'm a very comfortable middle class citizen. When I divorced my first husband and me and my two kids had nowhere to go I first used savings and credit cards till I found work, but I eventually had to rely on food stamps for a time period to feed my kids. Then, because of pell grants for single mothers I went and got my degree, I have one in business and one in accounting, now,listen to this part, I am doing very well, remarried, new baby, paying taxes to help others have that same shot from the bottom up! I am a walking testimony of my beliefs! What you got for me now...What part you gonna pull out and retype,LOL

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      An AYM - Since you said, "behind us" and "we should try" I assume you are American and therefore did personally 'slash and burn... abuse." No? I thought not. See, WE THE PEOPLE ARE AMERICA. Yes, the leaders of our past and present have done and continue to do horrible things but the spirit of a land of freedom for all is nothing to be ashamed of. Things that happened in our past that we are not responsible for are for us to fix not use as weapons to defend those that are currently ripping us all off, attacking the very foundations of freedom, pitting us at each others throats, shoving legislation down our throats that the vast majority of the nation has said over and over they don't want, making access to healthcare now a tax on all, allowing masses upon masses of illegal aliens to drain social networks, local law enforcement, education, healthcare and on into infinity, the list just goes on and on. They have purposefully devalued our currency by printing it like it's invitations to a Rave. They continue to waste our money as inflation grows like a specter of deprivation upon grocery registers nation wide. This list goes on and on. Guess what. All nations have done things they regret later. America was the shining ideal of freedom for the world. The left is purposefully pissing it down the toilet while laughing all the way to the bank with our money. The very acts you are justifiably complaining about the democrats are now perpetrating upon WE THE PEOPLE.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "The way I see this , I believe the fact that Obama is black is the real reason why the rage.'

      When all else fails, play the race card. Any criticism of Obama must be racist.

      (sigh)

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Vix, thank you:) at last, a grown up conversation. I can actually understand your fears now that I understand your point of view. I would like to share with you my fear. The way I see this , I believe the fact that Obama is black is the real reason why the rage. D and R's have always battled but not like this. They HATE him. I believe they hate that he beats them at their own game. I don't know if you watched him speak last night but he was amazing! and get this, reminded me of a Republican president. Democrats have been weeniesfor a long time until Bill and ooohhh, hes just as handsome and smooth as a kennedy,lol. But Obama, that man has balls, he has courage, and he is smart, and had enough money to beat them at their own game campaigning! Poor Bahner looks like he is having a nervous breakdown. This is probably why, the elite powers that be, you know the ones who own the media are actually disguising themselves as the Republican party. Bahner(can't spell worth a darn) is probably this really smart man and wanted to make simpson boles happen but his hands were tied. We have to change in this country. We have to help one another so as a country we can kick the you no what out of all the rest. To be the big now in this time in history, you have to have smart, healthy fit prepared citizens. Not this slacker entitled generation with their phones in their face and their skinny jeans. We need to honor human rights, level the playing field, and build from the ground up! God grows everything from the ground up, why shouldn't we.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "The economic actions which put America "At the top" are the ones which slash and burn the environment behind us and abuse weaker nations."

      Unsubstantiated, ignorant, America-hating, liberal hogwash.

    • profile image

      An AYM 5 years ago

      PoetVix if you want America to not require apology than we should try and break convention by not acting horribly for once. The economic actions which put America "At the top" are the ones which slash and burn the environment behind us and abuse weaker nations.

      I would like it America didn't require apology too, but I think our nation is embarassing. Maybe America should get to the top by just trying to act and live well instead of behaving like international politics is some giant stupid highschool popularity contest.

    • poetvix profile image

      poetvix 5 years ago from Gone from Texas but still in the south. Surrounded by God's country.

      Tammy - Thank you for responding. I'm really glad you did. I see you a little differently now. It may surprise you to find out that I agree with much of what you said. We are divided. I don't know you and you don't know me. I have written many a hub on exactly that subject. Further, I agree both parties are to blame. You see, I voted democrat in every election since I could vote until the last one. I don't care what color the President is. I don't care what sexual orientation he/she is. Frankly a female president appeals to me in certain ways as we think differently. The problem I have with the current leaders of the democratic party is that are the ones causing the division at the present time.

      They are continually assaulting the Constitution, freedom! So many think that document is no big deal. Without it, without the checks and balances that were put in place within its wise framing we become but slaves to our own government. Not being a slave to government is what America is about. Do I agree with everything the right wants? No ma'am. But, without fixing the economy America falls and we become but part of a global government. No matter what this President says, he has driven up debt at alarming levels. Obamacare is nothing if not guaranteed to compound not only financial woes but also social ones. He says he wants to help children and God knows I'm for that but I can not see how a panel determining care based on societal contribution will ever rank a disabled child high on that list.

      The President should be a shining example to the people. This man has had multiple identities. He was never vetted. He has repeatedly apologized for our nation when he should be modeling to us all how to be proud of it. He is not a leader. He wants to realign us in the world rankings by his own words written in his own hand in his own book. I liked the idea of America ranking at the top. I'm not about to back anyone that doesn't.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 5 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      We are middle class, but we have all that and we earned it on our own. So can anyone else who has the ambition, and without government.

      Gas is high because the Democrats oppose any new drilling on government land. Healthcare costs began to soar right after Medicare became law.

      Democrats always look to government for answers, while conservatives do it on their own.

      If Democrats wanted to care for the 40 million uninsured, then why didn't they just do it themselves? Why did they have to make it a law that most Americans despise?

      In fact, why don't Democrats do all this stuff on their own and leave the rest of us alone? Get out of our lives and out of our pockets!

      If you'll notice, all those leeches who are on the government dole always vote for Democrats.

    • tammybarnette profile image

      Tammy Barnette 5 years ago

      Well thank you for that Will, that is exactly why I love President Obama. He supports Americans, that way you don't have to a millionaire in order to send your kids to preschool or college, even playing field, that's his promise. Why would you want a nation of poor people living in tents rather than having hard working tax paying citizens? We are only as strong as our weakest link Will. I want people working and paying taxes, not sitting uneducated and starving under a bridge somewhere. I don't know your age or your generation but in case you haven't noticed food and gas are high, college tuition ridiculous, healthcare costs ridiculous, Regular people are trying to put food on the table, gas in their cars to make it to work, regular folks need a shot, need a job, need to have that pride that comes from taking care of your family. I don't understand why you find that so disgusting.