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Worth A Thousand Shells?

Updated on March 16, 2013

A Leak in The Blue Wall?

It has been said a picture is worth a thousand words; as a self-taught photographer, I can attest to the power of an image. Michael Moore, in a recent piece in the Huffington Post, alluded to this power in mentioning the case of Emmett Till, the marchers at Selma, Alabama, and My Lai. I am surprised he made no mention of the role the pictures from Abu Ghraib probably played in turning public opinion against the war in Iraq.

But what he was wondering about was what the effect would be if the pictures of the 20 children from the Newtown school shooting were to be made public? The pictures would have to be either leaked, as Moore suggests, but another scenario could involve someone hacking into the Newton Police Department's system.

From Moore's research, the pictures would be gruesome. One of the parents did request an open casket funeral and the Governor of Connecticut was moved to tears?

But would people be that affected? The "Bloody Fetus" is a common picture used by opponents of women's reproductive rights, and many people have likely grown used to seeing images of bodies shot with automatic weapons from movies and video games.

The NRA would surely have some response to rationalize this. Most likely they would dismiss this as another attempt to turn public opinion against the 2nd Amendment. But that rhetoric may just be sounding more and more shrill as people see through the NRA.

Would I look at the pictures. Probably not, I don't take well to such images. But as has been proven time and time again, sometimes a picture can lead to a million voices.


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    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Read this if you haven't already:

      All of their concerns must be met of course, or Obama is a bad bad man.

      http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15241-iraq-sandy...

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      LMC:

      Folks like Mike and Jack can't see past the crosshairs, IMO.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Right back atcha bro.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      You are beyond reasoning with. You have utterly failed to comprehend the perspectives of others. You fail to consider any arguments and then attempt to bring completely unrelated issues into the topic. I'm through arguing with you.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Basically Mike, all you have said is the kid deserved to die, and the man had the right to kill him.

      It IS as simple as that!

      And it IS about gun culture.

      Because, had that kid come in my window, my old man would have belted him--but he would be still alive.

      The price for your gun freedom is that people die.

      Deserving/undeserving.

      It's not all good. It's black and white.

      I think the answer to your question is corruption and money. And I posted an article recently where Obama didn't even try and fill the ATF post because there was no one who would take it and go up against the NRA.

      http://educationclearinghouse.wordpress.com/2012/1...

      one of many examples.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "I don't think getting drunk and going in the wrong house deserves the death penalty."

      You are over-simplifying it again. He broke into a man's home through a window at 2 Am setting off the burglar alarm. He was then confronted while coming up the stairs and was told to leave. He then proceeded up the stairs and was shot. Stop making it sound like he walked in the wrong house, said "damn wrong house," and was shot.

      "You suppose the man was old enough to have seen a drunk person before...and a kid, at that? It's a dereliction of a life as far as I'm concerned, and without a gun, the kid would most likely just have passed out drunk."

      The young man was illegally under the influence of a substance and broke into a home. Again, put yourself in the homeowner's shoes. Also stop calling the young man a kid. He looks to be over six feet tall and there is a picture online of him palming a basketball. Anyway, a 16 year old is more of a threat than a 26 or 36 year old. They are way more unpredicatable and are less likely to think things through.

      "But, that is only my opinion, and it has no bearing on anything. The kid is dead, the man is not charged, and he will have to live w it for the rest of his life."

      I feel sorry for the man. He probably feels horrible and didn't have all the information you are arguing with when he pulled the trigger.

      "I'm just telling you I hate this gun culture, and I am forced to endure it, while you all tell me how you stand for freedom."

      The young man was not shot because of a "gun culture." The young man was shot because a homeowner defended his home after the young man broke into it and came at him.

      "And I hate to tell you, but all those regs you mention are hampered due to the NRA. ImKarn wrote a couple of hubs on it. Or you can google it."

      I don't think the NRA is interfering with the enforcement of gun laws. Even those of us who are pro-gun often ask why some laws are not enforced. My main question is why those who lie on background check paperwork are merely told that they can't purchase the firearm. Why aren't they criminally prosecuted?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      People need to pay for their actions.

      I don't think getting drunk and going in the wrong house deserves the death penalty.

      You suppose the man was old enough to have seen a drunk person before...and a kid, at that? It's a dereliction of a life as far as I'm concerned, and without a gun, the kid would most likely just have passed out drunk.

      But, that is only my opinion, and it has no bearing on anything. The kid is dead, the man is not charged, and he will have to live w it for the rest of his life.

      I'm just telling you I hate this gun culture, and I am forced to endure it, while you all tell me how you stand for freedom.

      And I hate to tell you, but all those regs you mention are hampered due to the NRA. ImKarn wrote a couple of hubs on it. Or you can google it.

      Laws aren't enforced, or they are watered down, or ignored due to their influence. Them, and ALEC.

      *****

      I can't call for immunity on anything. And forgiveness depends on the situation at hand.

      I have been raped, and I have forgiven. But it took a long time, so there is no easy answer. I just know this: once you are dead, it's ovah.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "do you think the kid deserved to die?"

      Based on the information so far, the young man's actions caused his shooting. It was justified. If I had been in the homeowner's shoes I likely would have fired also.

      You're not looking at it from the homeowner's point of view. The article I read earlier didn't mention his health or whether he had a family. Did he think he was physically capable of stopping the intruder without shooting? Did he have a wife and children he wanted to protect? I am divorced and have no children. I can tell you without a doubt that my response would be more severe in that kind of situation if I thought harm would come to those I cared about if I failed to stop an intruder. It's one thing to except a risk of losing at you own safety, it's another to risk the safety of those looking to you to protect them.

      "...you need to say yes, to be an honest broker. This is the whole credo of what the 2nd is: you have the right to kill.

      Yet, you keep denying it."

      You picked a bad example to try to prove the 2nd amendment is about killing. This man was protecting his home from an intruder. You have stated in your previous posts that people should be allowed to protect their home.

      "and you need to stop thinking I am beneath you, and my answers aren't up to your standards."

      Then put yourself in the homeowner's shoes. Think about what he observed at the time.

      "I support the Feinstein bill.--that leaves 2,000 something choice of guns.

      Passing that would have sent a message that "no, you don't have free reign to have any type of weapon you want...we get to set limits." 2nd amendment: well-regulated."

      We don't have free reign to any firearm we want. Firearms are heavily restricted. Many of just don't believe in her regulations. The 1994-2004 ban did absolutely nothing to stop violence or even gun related violence.

      A couple of other scenarios if you believe his actions shoud be excused because he was drunk:

      Would you call for immunity for a person with no criminal background getting drunk and causing a car accident that killed a husband and two small children?

      Would you ask for forgiveness for a person without a history of violence deciding to use drugs which influenced their reasoning and played a role in them raping a woman?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      3rd try:

      do you think the kid deserved to die?

      ...you need to say yes, to be an honest broker. This is the whole credo of what the 2nd is: you have the right to kill.

      Yet, you keep denying it.

      and you need to stop thinking I am beneath you, and my answers aren't up to your standards.

      I support the Feinstein bill.--that leaves 2,000 something choice of guns.

      Passing that would have sent a message that "no, you don't have free reign to have any type of weapon you want...we get to set limits." 2nd amendment: well-regulated.

      That is how it relates to these 2 stories. People in Ameria think they have the right to do anything they want regarding guns.

      Passing Feinstein's bill would have sent a message, that no you don't.

      Change of mind-set.

      What is the message we have now?

      There is no prohibition on what type of guns or ammo you own: go for it: free-for-all.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "A gun is a gun is a gun....they all kill."

      I'll take that to mean that your argument has progressed from opposition of "assault rifles" and high capacity magazine to an all out ban on firearms.

      "You don't like my answer, that's not my problem."

      Your answer is similar to me asking you what color the sky is and you telling me that rocks are hard.

      "And so I can take you to mean that: Yes, that kid deserved to die because he was drunk and went in the wrong house."

      The "kid" was a large male who broke into someone's home at 2 AM setting off his burglar alarm. He then proceeded up the homeowner's stairs and continued to advance after being warned. The fact that he was drunk not only caused him enter the wrong home, but I'm sure it also made the confrontation much more confusing. I'm not happy the young man is dead, but I certainly do not fault the actions of the homeowner for his death.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, you didn't answer my question, but I did answer yours. Twice.

      You don't like my answer, that's not my problem.

      A gun is a gun is a gun....they all kill.

      All shootings are related to all guns. You have to take responsibilty for what you are doing to the rest of us.

      And so I can take you to mean that: Yes, that kid deserved to die because he was drunk and went in the wrong house.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "Lived 2 houses down: honest mistake, but kid is dead, due to the media-driven paranoia we all live in today.

      You really think the kid deserved to die?"

      Honest mistake? Paranoia? What is wrong with you?

      The man was awoken by his burglar alarm going off and found a large male coming up his stairs. He fired a warning shot and told the large male to leave his home. The large male then proceeded to come towards him and was shot. What the hell was he supposed to do?

      "You really think the kid deserved to die?"

      I think the homeowner had the right to defend himself from an intruder coming through his window at 2 AM.

      "********in case you missed it, my answer:

      "A ban on those rifles and high-capacity mags would have sent a good message: we aren't taking it anymore!""

      My question, in case you missed it is: What does this shooting have to do with "those rifles" and high capacity magazines?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "They have the exact same staircase as us, the exact same carpet. Caleb clearly thought he was in his own house,” said his father, Shawn Gordley, who provided the account of his son’s night. “He probably stumbled around and was just trying to go to his room.”

      Lived 2 houses down: honest mistake, but kid is dead, due to the media-driven paranoia we all live in today.

      You really think the kid deserved to die?

      Once my drunk husband came at me, and I clocked him a good one. He's 6'4, I'm 5'5. It worked.

      Guess now--if I shot him instead, you'd be cool w it? BUT.....a woman is scared to death of an ex, and she can't get the law to take his gun?

      We need a ban on gun culture, period. This is not the wild wild west, and everyone here is held hostage to your supposed freedom.

      A ban on those rifles and high-capacity mags would have sent a good message: we aren't taking it anymore!

      As it is, we'll just sit back as people are shot down day after day after day after day......

      And people can't vote, and women can't get abortions, and gays can't marry.

      But hey--send me the stats on murder by hammer and fist, that'll make it all even.

      ********in case you missed it, my answer:

      "A ban on those rifles and high-capacity mags would have sent a good message: we aren't taking it anymore!"

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "Homeowner shoots, kills teenager who mistakenly entered the wrong house ---he was 16."

      Did you read the article. This kid was a big athlete who came through the guys window drunk at 2 AM with the help of his friends and wouldn't stop when warned.

      Here is the story folks:

      "When he left the party about 2 a.m., Caleb needed to sneak home. His friends dropped him off and helped hoist him through a back window. But Caleb had been drinking and had gone to the wrong house. The brick homes on his street are similar, and Caleb was two doors down from his own.

      The homeowner heard his burglar alarm sound, grabbed his gun and went to investigate. When the two met on the stairs inside the house, the man said he told the teen to leave and fired a warning shot, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation.

      Caleb didn’t stop, and the home-owner fired again, striking and killing the teen, the official said."

      Your second article:

      "March 20, 2013 Colorado Prison Chief Shot Dead Hours Before Governor to Sign Landmark Gun Laws"

      This individual was clearly targeted and now there is speculation it may been a professional hit.

      Please explain how either of these shooting highlights the need for a ban on "assault rifles," high capacity magazines, or anything else for that matter.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      2 headlines:

      Tuesday, Mar 19, 2013 7:16 PM UTC

      Homeowner shoots, kills teenager who mistakenly entered the wrong house ---he was 16.

      March 20, 2013 Colorado Prison Chief Shot Dead Hours Before Governor to Sign Landmark Gun Laws

      *******

      This is what caught me cold:

      "The National Rifle Association’s local affiliate fought hard against the measures, arguing that the laws aimed at protecting human life will harm the state’s economy."

      ---there is nothing more to say.

      And I'm done being nice.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "Shortly after the 2006 law took effect, President Bush nominated U.S. Attorney Michael Sullivan to head the ATF, but even a Republican president’s choice proved unacceptable to pro-gun lobbyists. The NRA, in particular, accused Sullivan of “overly restrictive legal interpretations” and “overly zealous enforcement activities” because, while Sullivan served as Acting Director of ATF, the agency revoked several gun dealers licenses to sell firearms. Sens. David Vitter (R-LA), Larry Craig (R-ID) and Mike Crapo (R-ID) quickly took up the gun lobby’s cause, placing a hold on Sullivan’s nomination until he agreed to comply with the NRA’s demands. Sullivan was never confirmed.

      The problem only got worse once President Obama took office. Obama did not nominate an ATF Director until Nov. 2010, in no small part because the administration “had a tough time even finding a candidate interested in the ATF job because of likely gun-lobby resistance.” When Obama finally did nominate Andrew Traver, a 23 year veteran of the ATF and the head of its Chicago office, the gun lobby did not disappoint. Within 24 hours of the Traver nomination, the NRA officially announced its opposition."

      *******

      "Freedom"

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Mike..I've heard all the justifications. I get it.

      Just own it next time it happens. That is your responsibilty. You defend it: own the consequences.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes...most def. The sales of guns and ammo would be my bet. Otherwise, they could not possibly defend allowing people to own friggin military-style weapons in the friggin neighborhoods of America....

      And they diss Obama for drones?

      HA!....right up the same GD ally.

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      LMC:

      Google "The Rick Smith Show" or "Equal Time Radio".

      And if you're wondering why the comments regarding the Ban have been denied, I plan to do a whole hub on that, we can discuss that then--K.

      I also think the American "Culture of violence" is a factor, and one that the NRA, etc count on.

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      Nor are guns

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      I've been using the term "gun safety" myself.

      Or "gun sanity"

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "People like me are citizens here too. Seems to me what you are saying is we have to put up with whatever people like you want!

      And trust me, I do it plenty already."

      I agree with you in your right as a citizen to express your views. In this case it seems that representatives could not support the assault weapons ban based on the will of their constituents. Any Democrat is certainly taking a risk by going against Obama.

      "I happen to live in a place where speech is bought. Those with the most money: speak!

      I don't listen to radio anymore, because there are no people like me on it. People like you bought up all the airwaves."

      I haven't found a radio or television station that has folks on that I totally agree with or even mostly agree with. That is why I like the internet so much. If I think an article or story sucks I can just move on to the next. I see the the internet as having the greatest potential to bring people together right now. Never has there been an opportunity to search such a large amount of information at will and communicate with people around the world.

      "And yes, those Dems live in Red states, and they fear going up against the NRA. Lot o money there for adds, smear-campaigns etc."

      That's just not true. Democrats can also be voted out of office by their constituents for another Democrat representative.

      "Hell, even threats maybe! You heard Nugent....he was pretty violent towards Obama , Pelosi and Clinton. Have gun, will bully.

      Or--they are gun owners too, and just agree with the NRA."

      Ted Nugent is a little extreme, but he is entertaining. The Secret Servie investigated his supposed threats and interviewed him. Their conclusion was that he is not a threat. If Uncle Ted hurts anyone unnecessarily or for the sake of cruelty, please let me know. That will be enough to change my opinion of him immediately. I don't totally agree with his hunting views, but he does eat much of what he kills and also brings disabled veterans to his ranch. Overall, I think he is a plus at the moment.

      "People kill w guns: the gun is the weapon of choice.

      Y'all are just making it easier for everybody to do."

      If someone could wave a magic wand and make all the firearms in the world disappear, there would be another weapon of choice.

      "In the name of your freedom.

      How many more next times will it take?"

      Hopefully there will never be another shooting massacre, but we both know there will be regardless of additional laws. The Columbine Massacre happened in the middle of the last "Assault Weapons Ban." It had absolutely no effect on crime.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      People like me are citizens here too. Seems to me what you are saying is we have to put up with whatever people like you want!

      And trust me, I do it plenty already.

      I happen to live in a place where speech is bought. Those with the most money: speak!

      I don't listen to radio anymore, because there are no people like me on it. People like you bought up all the airwaves.

      ******

      And yes, those Dems live in Red states, and they fear going up against the NRA. Lot o money there for adds, smear-campaigns etc.

      Hell, even threats maybe! You heard Nugent....he was pretty violent towards Obama , Pelosi and Clinton. Have gun, will bully.

      Or--they are gun owners too, and just agree with the NRA.

      ****

      I'm just saying.....next time: you all take the blame, and own it. No more cop outs: blaming video games and drugs.

      People kill w guns: the gun is the weapon of choice.

      Y'all are just making it easier for everybody to do.

      In the name of your freedom.

      How many more next times will it take?

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "That's right....I said so already....most people own guns themselves, so they are not anti-gun people. They just want some common sense...and they lost."

      Common sense is not universally the same. Your idea of common sense and mine are two different things. You've said before that I should be allowed to have firearms, but only those that people like you approve of.

      "But now you guys really can't call the Dems Obama shills either: as he was pushing for this assault weapons ban and universal background check."

      Any Democrat voting against Obama's initiatives must be worried about their constituents voting them out of office next election. That means the people they are representing do not agree with some of Obama's intiatives. This is how representation works.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "I'm assuming every R voted against it....

      Now I's done. So angry and pizzzzed off about all kinds of things: better go let off steam."

      No Republican ever had a chance to vote on it. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid voluntarily dropped her plan.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Just in case anyone interested:

      “The five Democratic senators from traditionally pro-gun states who have expressed skepticism about the bill are Max Baucus and Jon Tester of Montana, Mark Begich of Alaska, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, who caucuses with Democrats, also said he opposes a ban.”

      *******

      I'm assuming every R voted against it....

      Now I's done. So angry and pizzzzed off about all kinds of things: better go let off steam.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      That's right....I said so already....most people own guns themselves, so they are not anti-gun people. They just want some common sense...and they lost.

      There are plenty of blue dog Dems that I have a problem with just as much as the Baggers. They are greedy and anti-abortion and use money and religion to make decisions just as much.

      But now you guys really can't call the Dems Obama shills either: as he was pushing for this assault weapons ban and universal background check.

      And don't worry--most doctors have quit the abortion game, as it leads to terrorism, stalking and death. They do take it seriously, and it's not worth their while to do it.

      But hey!....we can still blast 20 kids away in minutes! USA USA USA

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "Abortion is legal."--try getting one.

      I'm a guy. I don't think the doctor would take me seriously.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "Welp...just heard: no assault weapons ban. Didn't have the votes in the Senate."

      And the Senate is run by the Democrats. Go figure.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Welp...just heard: no assault weapons ban. Didn't have the votes in the Senate.

      US Senators: When a mass murder happens again: do me a favor and look in the mirror.

      "Abortion is legal."--try getting one.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "No one is challenging ownership!!!

      They are trying to restrict some semi-automatic rifles and high-capacity magazines, and are trying to get universal background checks."

      That is challenging ownership. You think I should be able to own only what you and others like you approve of.

      "And abortion IS a factor here: Gun-Owners demand the choice to kill if need be.

      ....And No one better take that away!"

      Humans have the choice to kill "if need be" whether there are fireams in the world or not. The problem is when and why some people feel that need.

      "Women demand the same CHOICE to abort a fetus should they need it.

      Gun owners are saying THEY have the right to kill, but not women-- in their own property: their body.

      They are saying their choice is sacrosanct, but IGNORE the SC ruling in favor of women's choice."

      I haven't brought my personal views on abortion up in this argument. They are irrelevant. There are pro-gun and anti-gun folks on both sides of the abortion argument.

      "and y'all had better look around you.....your rights are not going anywhere.....mine are already gone."

      You have lost me on this one. If you gauge your freedom by the ability to have an abortion then it sounds like your good to go. Abortion is legal.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "What would you prefer?"

      anti military-style, mass-murdering instruments of war.

      what, pray-tell is michael moore's agenda?

      He is or was a member of the NRA you know.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "How pitiful. But the best that lmc can do, eh."

      just can't help yourself, can you?

      Like I said: I know you like the back of my hand.

      Cheers, and pip pip

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      No one is challenging ownership!!!

      They are trying to restrict some semi-automatic rifles and high-capacity magazines, and are trying to get universal background checks.

      The fact that this seems to be too much for the NRA is very telling!

      And abortion IS a factor here: Gun-Owners demand the choice to kill if need be.

      ....And No one better take that away!

      Women demand the same CHOICE to abort a fetus should they need it.

      Gun owners are saying THEY have the right to kill, but not women-- in their own property: their body.

      They are saying their choice is sacrosanct, but IGNORE the SC ruling in favor of women's choice.

      and y'all had better look around you.....your rights are not going anywhere.....mine are already gone.

      Spare me the 2nd amendment hoohaahaa...you don't get to pick and choose the Constitution.

      OR you'd respect the 14th as well!

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      Also @love

      Abortion is not a factor in all of the world's arguments.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @love

      "I remember Obama doing that...and how he stood there giving the military salute when they came off the plane...."

      I'm hoping he did that because he felt it was the right thing for him to do. I'm not going to question his motives. Again though, they showed the coffins. I wasn't implying there were not dead Americans in those coffins. Michael Moore wants pictures of dead children, hopefully at the crime scene with lots of blood, to be distributed to the public to further his agenda.

      "I am def anti-gun: but they label all of them that to smear....."

      What would you prefer? Firearm ownership challenged? Pro restrictive laws that do nothing person? It honestly wasn't meant as a smear. It was meant to identify those on the other side. I have no problem being labeled pro-gun.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      knc sez: I remember Obama doing that...and how he stood there giving the military salute when they came off the plane....

      Jack replies: Yes he did... but the motives that phonix ascribed to the acting parties had nothing to do with it.

      BTW... do you believe the phonix was right or wrong in his statement about the ban on semi-auto guns? Yes or no? I am really interested in your answer.

      lmc sez: is there one gun advocate who can debate without using the term anti-gun? Far as I know.......most people around here own them.

      jack replies: That's like the KKK member who typically says, "Of course I have a Negro friend."

      lmc sez: I am def anti-gun: but they label all of them that to smear.....

      Jack replies: So I am confused. It's now a "smear" to label you with the truth? And yes, one can own a gun and still be "anti gun." It's quite easy. Feinstein owns guns but do you think she is "pro gun"?

      lmc sez: and take our egg for a walk in the stroller....

      Jack replies: How pitiful. But the best that lmc can do, eh.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      mom, when I grow up I'm going to marry a corporation and take our egg for a walk in the stroller....

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      is there one gun advocate who can debate without using the term anti-gun?

      Far as I know.......most people around here own them.

      I am def anti-gun: but they label all of them that to smear.....

      Stop it. IF you are honest intent that is.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      I remember Obama doing that...and how he stood there giving the military salute when they came off the plane....

      Nice. That's what a Commander in Chief does.

      As well as not jump into the PNAC plans at the drop of a hat.

      *****

      Gosh....I guess it was all a dream that we all watched that on tv.

      My C-Span....*love*

      Yep: it was a fact.

      But it makes Cons Feeeeel Gooood to ignore facts.

      Hey egg: need a baba?

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      @phoenix

      "Short ... and absolutely on point. I think the pictures should be released. Just seeing the coffins come home from the Vietnam War got the protests going... that is why Bush wouldn't allow photographs of our Soldiers bodies coming back from Iraq etc... Obama reinstated the custom of pictures of them returning home... thus giving them honor and allowing us to see what the price of war actually was."

      They were never showing the bodies coming back from Iraq. They were showing the coffins the bodies were coming back in. The problem was that these troops' sacrifices were being disrespected by those seeking to use them for political gain. Michael Moore is hoping to do the same with these dead children and take it to the next level. Showing a funeral or a coffin is not enough for him. He is hoping for grusesome pictures of dead children. The more grotesque they are, the happier he would be.

      "after all many of them were in Congress when the last Ban on Semi-Automatic weapons and multi clip ammo was allowed to expire. They are as guilty as the shooter."

      Is there one anti-gun person anywhere that knows anything about firearms or the law?

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: 100 ++++Phoenix. Nothing left to say.

      jack replies: Nothing left to say except that phonix was 100 percent wrong in his facts. But his post makes people ffffeeeellll gggggoooddd and that is what is important.

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      I was respond to your references to Martial Arts.

      And to me that means that there should be a limit to the potential to commit horrible acts.

      But that would be bad for the Gun Manufacturers that the NRA has become an de facto lobby for.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      100 ++++Phoenix.

      Nothing left to say.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      hl sez: when the last Ban on Semi-Automatic weapons and multi clip ammo was allowed to expire. They are as guilty as the shooter.

      Jack replies: HL doesn't know that there was NEVER a "ban on semi-automatic weapons and multi-clip ammo" but yet he blames Congress for allowing a non-existent something or other to "expire."

      This is a prime example of what I mean when I post about people who just have no clue as to what they are posting about but they feel compelled to post anyway. Honestly, I just don't understand it.

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      Short ... and absolutely on point. I think the pictures should be released. Just seeing the coffins come home from the Vietnam War got the protests going... that is why Bush wouldn't allow photographs of our Soldiers bodies coming back from Iraq etc... Obama reinstated the custom of pictures of them returning home... thus giving them honor and allowing us to see what the price of war actually was.

      I wouldn't want to look at the pictures of the children BUT our Congresspeople should Have to do so before they vote. They are all for us seeing aborted fetuses... let them look at their handiwork... after all many of them were in Congress when the last Ban on Semi-Automatic weapons and multi clip ammo was allowed to expire. They are as guilty as the shooter.

      Thanks for the Hub... a very different 'eye' view of the topic.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Im sez: i do not have the strength at the moment to deal with the heartless morons - who probably have never even read the 2nd amendment - and give no thought to the bloody swiss cheese that used to be live children!

      Jack replies: This is a typical rant of someone who really has nothing of value to add to a dialogue. Because we disagree with her than obviously, to her way of thinking, we have given “no thought” to the harm that happens to children. This is the best she can do. No logic… no rational discourse… no reason… just pure hyper-emotionalism.

      Im sez: 'Hammers and fist, cars and bicycles' - all pure crap - nobody loads, aims - and SHOOTS a hammer - you can't murder 20 children in 30 seconds with your fists...etc...etc...

      Jack replies: But, as noted in the statistics from the FBI, you can kill many more people a year with hammers and fists than you can with all the kinds of rifles put together. IM must only care about dead children when they are killed in large numbers at one time, eh. Those thousands of people killed by hammers and fists in just a few years must be meaningless to her.

      Im sez: Distraction, distortion, and delusion..

      Jack replies: Notice that she really can’t answer anything?

      Im sez: in other words - the ignorant kool-aid drinkers that the piranha of the NRA ADORE!

      Jack replies: Im is the one who is willing to avoid the awful, painful reality of thousands of dead people and she calls others “kool aid drinkers” eh.

    • ImKarn23 profile image

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      i do not have the strength at the moment to deal with the heartless morons - who probably have never even read the 2nd amendment - and give no thought to the bloody swiss cheese that used to be live children!

      'Hammers and fist, cars and bicycles' - all pure crap - nobody loads, aims - and SHOOTS a hammer - you can't murder 20 children in 30 seconds with your fists...etc...etc...

      Distraction, distortion, and delusion..

      in other words - the ignorant kool-aid drinkers that the piranha of the NRA ADORE!

      well done lmc..

      up and sharing

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: If you'll notice: not on topic, smug slur on my person.

      jack replies: Errrr.... it was YOU who want to ban things that people use to hurt other people. YOU stated that if we cared about life we would NEVER allow these things.

      Hammers and fists kill far more people each year than rifles do. Thanks for giving me a chance to remind readers of that since you can't explain away your inconsistency on this.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "btw, conscientious and conservative don't mix. Not in this day and age."

      I could debate that, but this is supposed to be a thread about gun control. It definitely doesn't seem to be that any longer.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Nope: you took it off course in your 1st post:

      "BTW... it's a real shame that lovemychris wants to ban such things as hammers and fists. We would NEVER allow these things in public arena if we cared about lives."

      ******

      If you'll notice: not on topic, smug slur on my person.

      Grow Up lady.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc is getting far, far away from the topic of guns. Not that I blame her, of course.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      btw, conscientious and conservative don't mix. Not in this day and age.

      The word is CON.

      "You’re really fixated on this, eh."

      Yup...it's a thorn in my side. I don't kin to backing down when treated badly.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Heres' another example of their integrity:

      "Daily Caller's smear campaign implodes as more Dominican women recant their stories on Senator Menendez"....I know, I know.... "they both do it"

      So, where's the liberal website that paid prostitutes to lie, and say they were molested by a Republican Senator?

      **********

      12? I raised a grandson til he was 12....working on #2....pulleeeeze.

      I will say though, I never saw such tantrums and disgusting behavior from them like I see from grown people here.

      They have manners.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: My daughter...

      Jack replies: Daughter? I thought you were 12. I am sooooo confused now.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Lmc sez: ---Sure, as soon as I see these people calling others suck, loser, filthy,trash, etc banned for 3 mo's, like I always was.--and I never called any names like that.

      Jack replies: Again, hubpages is a commercial business. They have the “right” run it EXACTLY the way they choose in regard to how they accept certain things and how they don’t. Do you disagree with this?

      Lmc sez: And sure----when you let me know just how many times these people get to come back after their bans.....seems like they get light-weight treatment for heavy duty attacks.

      Jack replies: You’re really fixated on this, eh.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Lmc sez: No--I think you were right the 1st time.

      Jack replies: Poor lmc… even when I give her an example of how a conscientious poster corrects a mistake she still misses the point. :-)

      Lmc sez: That is how you have always addressed me: as a second class rat who deserves no respect. No need to stop now.

      Jack replies: But even second class rats deserve accurate information. Otherwise how can they work their way up to first class rats?

      Lmc sez: You forget: I've put up with this righty-faux-patriot-religio crap for 12 yrs.

      Jack replies: I have always thought that there was something a little immature about your posting but I didn’t realize you had not yet hit puberty. But you’re hanging in there pretty good for a 7th grader.

      Lmc sez: And if Rush had a dime, he'd have more than he's worth.

      Jack replies: Jealous much?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      My daughter and gs live here, so I'm glad. And her father's family are tru-blue Colarady redneck.

      http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_XGR_GUN_...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "Good.. now will we finally see an end to the complaints about the 1st Amendment not being “respected”?

      ---Sure, as soon as I see these people calling others suck, loser, filthy,trash, etc banned for 3 mo's, like I always was.--and I never called any names like that.

      And sure----when you let me know just how many times these people get to come back after their bans.....seems like they get light-weight treatment for heavy duty attacks.

      so yes.....when this happens, let me know. I'll stop questioning.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      No--I think you were right the 1st time.

      That is how you have always addressed me: as a second class rat who deserves no respect. No need to stop now.

      And anyway, I'm born in the year of the rat, good enough.

      You forget: I've put up with this righty-faux-patriot-religio crap for 12 yrs.

      I know it like the back of my hand.

      And if Rush had a dime, he'd have more than he's worth.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      I misspoke and need to correct myself. I previously posted…

      "You don't have a right to be respected, lmc, or even a right to demand that you be heard.”

      This is wrong in a way. Yes, lmc has every right to demand that she be heard. What she doesn’t have is the right to enforce her demand by any means at all. There’s a subtle but big difference in the two concepts.

      Lmc sez: No, I hear you loud and clear.

      Jack replies: Good.. now will we finally see an end to the complaints about the 1st Amendment not being “respected”?

      Lmc sez: In fact, I see this attitude every day, directed at the President of the United State...why should I, as a citizen, expect any better?

      Jack replies: The better question is why should the president expect anything better than any other citizen. He’s President Obama, not King Obama.

      Lmc sez: Just you know: I'm onto you.

      Jack requests: Errr…. Could you please not use phrases such as that? My wife reads these and might think you are coming on to me or something. It’ll be embarrassing explaining to her.

      Lmc sez: Here's more of the clique at work...and this is how you know them:

      Jack replies, while scratching his head: I have no idea what lmc is posting about, Dear Readers. It appears to be random sentences perhaps from another hub, or some other site. Just dunno about that.

      But her emotional investment in it certainly comes through, eh.

      Lmc sez: Keep it up quackers and yappers. Fish rots from the head. And ole Rushbo is looking a little grey at the gills.

      Jack replies: Errrr….. the “head” of the country is Obama. And if Rush had a dime for everyone who said he was on the way out he’d be worth twice the couple hundred million he already has.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "You don't have a right to be respected, lmc, or even a right to demand that you be heard.

      Is this really too hard to understand?"

      *********

      No, I hear you loud and clear.

      In fact, I see this attitude every day, directed at the President of the United State...why should I, as a citizen, expect any better?

      Just you know: I'm onto you.

      *******

      Here's more of the clique at work...and this is how you know them:

      "squeeknomoreposted 2 days ago" 1.......silly name

      Marquis wrote:

      "Jandee, you know you suck, right?" 2....not discussion of issue: personal attack

      "Be careful, Marquis, I know someone who got kicked off for three days in responding to all this. We need you here... but don't kill yourself over it!"

      3.....Who is this We?

      Keep it up quackers and yappers. Fish rots from the head. And ole Rushbo is looking a little grey at the gills.

    • profile image

      Mike 4 years ago

      "I did Aikido for a few years if that counts."

      No, what does that have to do with additional regulations on firearms.

      "But that still, IMO means the goal should be to limit damage"

      So do I. That is why evil or crazy people committing horrible acts should be dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible.

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      I did Aikido for a few years if that counts.

      But that still, IMO means the goal should be to limit damage

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: Am I or am I not a citizen of USA? Or do we have able to speak vs stfu now?

      Jack replies: As typical, confusing her right to speak with the rights of others to laugh at her misstatements, wrong facts, and general lack of ability to put reason and logic in the same paragraph.

      You don't have a right to be respected, lmc, or even a right to demand that you be heard.

      Is this really too hard to understand?

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Lmc sez: *sigh*...so, you think a fertilized egg is a baby? Nothing more to say.

      Jack replies: How odd. The aborted baby has nothing to say also.

      Lmc sez: slur: "Pejorative, any term of disparagement" You know all about it Jack. Don't pretend otherwise. All you need do is read your own responses.

      Jack replied: Never said I didn’t slur you. I just said that the slurs you said I said are not what I said or actual slurs.

      Lmc sez: You say that I post rank nonsense. Slur.

      Jack relies: But you don’t label it as a lie, eh.

      Lmc sez: And a complete dismissal of me.

      Jack replies: No more so than what a flat-earther would experience at a meeting of NASA scientists.

      Lmc sez: So be it....just don't have your crew gang up and report ME.

      Jack replies: So paranoid…

      Lmc sez: It is a fact that Reagan's WH were running guns and crack cocaine through US ghetto's to get $$ to fund their illegal war.

      Jack replies: Unfortunately for YOU, this has absolutely nothing to do with what you posted earlier. You said, speaking about the AR style rifle, and I quote…

      “It was brought into civilian life by the Iran/Contra black-ops, and of course, allowed to stay by the same gang.”

      And, as I pointed out, this has no more truth to it than a flat earther has on geology. If you want to argue the merits and deficiencies of the Iran Contra scandal that is a good, different thread. But attempting to change the subject that you botched so poorly is indicative of why you get laughed at here on hubpages.

      I suggested that you spend some time learning actual facts. It appears that you have doubled-down on defending ignorance. So be it.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "And you really expect people to treat you as competent? As an equal in a discussion about firearms?"

      Am I or am I not a citizen of USA? Or do we have able to speak vs stfu now?

      And you say this about me:

      "He really, in his heart, believes that the behavior of the weakest amoung us, the social deviants, those obey no law, should set the amount of freedom that the rest of us get to have."

      And I'm supposed to take YOU serious?

      ehhhhhhh. Why the slurs, Lady?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      *sigh*...so, you think a fertilized egg is a baby? Nothing more to say.

      slur: "Pejorative, any term of disparagement" You know all about it Jack. Don't pretend otherwise. All you need do is read your own responses.

      "am not slurring you. I am just pointing out the truth. You have the choice. You can study up and actually learn something. {and that doesn't mean agreeing with me and my positions. It means learning basic facts.}

      Or you can continue to post rank nonsense"

      *****

      You say that I post rank nonsense.

      Slur.

      And a complete dismissal of me.

      So be it....just don't have your crew gang up and report ME.

      It is a fact that Reagan's WH were running guns and crack cocaine through US ghetto's to get $$ to fund their illegal war.

      Freeway Ricky Ross went to prison for it....ask him.

      Reagan claimed he knew nothing about it, but Oliver North sure did, and so did HW Bush.

      This is historical fact: You can look it up for yourself.

      So--you can stop blaming Obama for the guns: It was Uncle Ronnie that started the whole ugly thing.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: If you need a gun: why the need for more than one bullet?

      Why the need for military-style weapons on OUR streets?

      jack replies: Perfect example of what I mean when I state lmc posts in willful and knowing ignorance.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: If you support forced birth, you are anti-freedom, just so know.

      Jack replies: The baby is unavailable for comment about his freedom.

      lmc sez: You can't respond to me without a slur on my character. Either as stupid, lazy, ignorant, or hysterical.

      Jack replies: I have never once called or labeled you stupid or lazy. The other two labels have nothing to do with your "character."

      I am ignorant about knitting. I don't feel a compulsion to go onto a knitting site and tell them that pearls come from an endangered species and they should quit routinely using them in their knitting.

      I use a reasoned, logical style of posting. You use a different style of posting. Pointing that out is no different than pointing out the style that I use.

      lmc sez: Using the term "complain", for stating a fact, is an attempt to lesson the fact to-- "oh, it's just sour grapes". I don't say it to complain---it's a legitimate wrongdoing!

      jack replies: Unfortunately for you, there is no "fact" to any statement that hubpages is suppressing free speech. Unless, as noted previously and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to repeat it, you actually believe that you have the right to demand the use of other people's property for your "free speech."

      Hubpages doesn't belong to you. You can start a blog that belongs to you and say anything you want. You know both these "facts."

      lmc sez: You come out of the box throwin slurs. How come?

      Jack replies: Oh... .let's just say that I am naturally prejudiced against ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about freedom and who express strong opinions based on no fact but just hyper-emotionalism desiring to deny others that freedom.

      You've yet to establish one single piece of knowledge that you actually know as true about firearms. You've made statements about firearms that even the least educated person about them know to be false.

      And you really expect people to treat you as competent? As an equal in a discussion about firearms?

      I am not slurring you. I am just pointing out the truth. You have the choice. You can study up and actually learn something. {and that doesn't mean agreeing with me and my positions. It means learning basic facts.}

      Or you can continue to post rank nonsense such as ARs and Iran-Contra. You believe in choice. Well, it's your choice.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      People who study martial arts do it for the purpose of learning the art....the fact that they can kill is the reason they don't! IMO

      A person who wants to set up and execute a mass murder has only to go buy a gun.

      The deadlier, the better. Didn't one of them buy bullets over the internet?

      If you need a gun: why the need for more than one bullet?

      Why the need for military-style weapons on OUR streets?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      If you support forced birth, you are anti-freedom, just so know.

      It's you, Jack.

      You can't respond to me without a slur on my character. Either as stupid, lazy, ignorant, or hysterical.

      Using the term "complain", for stating a fact, is an attempt to lesson the fact to-- "oh, it's just sour grapes".

      I don't say it to complain---it's a legitimate wrongdoing!

      Check yourself....every single answer to me is couched in insult and character slurs.

      You come out of the box throwin slurs. How come?

    • Alberic O profile image

      Alberic O 4 years ago from Any Clime, Any Place

      If you study martial arts, you will know what 'One Mind, Any Weapon' means. Anything can be used to kill (parts of the body, or tools) and if you do the technique correctly, you can dispatch someone in seconds. If you think I'm BS'ing, ask those who study the following: LINE, Hapkido, Aikido, Ninjitsu, Jujitsu, Wushu, Krav Maga, Combatives, MCMAP, Systema and other combat systems.The will to commit violent lies in the person alone and their desire to use violence to achieve an outcome.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      and anti-freedom folk call gun owners "paranoid." :-)

      BTW... just what are "gang stalking terms"? Now's your chance to educate me on a subject that apparently you actually know.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Nope: just defending myself for the inevitable lmc ban, while youze guyz are free to bash me at will.

      History....learn from it or die repeating it: oh yeah....that's the Republican way

      :-)

      :-)

      *****

      "complain"

      "whine"

      are gang-stalking terms used to defame or flame a person.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      ...and lmc was actually complaining about the "lack of free speech" on hubpages, eh.

      That calls for two smilies...

      :-)

      :-)

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "lmc is fixated on his nose. Must be a Honker."

      "You’ll know more in five minutes than lmc has learned in a lifetime."

      "Lmc is just too ignorant to know "

      ---oh wait: here's my saving grace!!!!

      "millions of children in the uterus can be wantonly slaughter and you don’t blink an eye"--Jack

      If they want to ban me for "butcher the 4th and 14th to suit your religion"...."not caring for the wanton slaughther of children" must be worse.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: I don't have a clique to come here an report him: but he does. He has no grounds.

      Jack replies: :-)

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Good articles... but let's take a look at what they actually say, eh

      http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/drug-

      "Smith claimed self-defense in both cases and prosecutors agreed"

      [What? The PROSECUTOR agreed? And ~this~ is supposed to be a black mark against the stand your ground law?]

      http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-28/news

      "Michael Dunn, 45, is being held without bail on charges of second-degree murder for the Friday night shooting of Jordan Davi"

      [So someone who shoots someone else is being held without bail on murder charges and ~this~ is supposed to be a black mark against sand your ground laws?]

      http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item

      "There are some questions in the case that slightly cloud Alexander's defense"

      [So a woman DOESN'T get away with murder since there are questions about her defense and ~this~ is supposed to be a black mark against the stand your ground law?]

      http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/23/us-usa-f

      "Exactly what happened that day in Clearwater, Florida, is still open to dispute"

      [A case that is "open to dispute" is the one that lmc wants to stake a claim on as a black mark against the stand your ground law?]

      lmc thrives on emotionalism. She revels in it. It is her standard operating posting style. So much so that I bet she didn't even read this articles. She just ffffeeeelllltttt that they were going to "show something."

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      hmmm, I feel a ban coming on, and I would like to point this out:

      "20 million murdered babies over the past few decades and lmc thinks this is find and dandy... "

      Jack said this about me, remember that.

      and this:

      "just don't murder innocent babies"

      and this:

      "Okay, lmc, time to put up or shut up."

      and:

      "But with your inability to even know the history of the AR going back just a few decades I don’t hold out much hope for your understanding of history a few centuries old."

      ---I don't have a clique to come here an report him: but he does.

      He has no grounds.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: Well, it's uterus envy. They can't give life, so they want to take it, using a de-facto penis to do it.

      Jack replies: This ~really~ is the best that lmc can do, eh.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Yes, I read it.... and let me quote from noted attorney, Dave Kopel...

      "The assertion that Florida law allows shooting whenever someone believes it to be necessary is a flat-out lie."

      You can read Kopel's works about the Castle Doctrine here

      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/2/deb...

      and

      http://www.volokh.com/2012/03/27/floridas-self-def...

      YOu can also read Attorney Peter Ferrara thoughts here

      http://theacru.org/acru/stand_your_ground_america/

      or Attorney John Corson here

      http://www.corson.org/archives/legal/L2012_09.htm

      I do thank you for providing the opportunity to set the Dear Readers straight with legal advice and knowledge from nationally known and respected attorneys as opposed to nothing but emotions over the net.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, it's uterus envy. They can't give life, so they want to take it, using a de-facto penis to do it.

      "Happiness is a warm gun, Mama"

      "Happiness is a warm, yes it i-i-s, GU-U-U-AH-UN"

      ********

      I have a real worry for our country, when it's inhabited by people who think an egg is more important than a full grown woman.

      Perhaps, they need to start picketing vasectomy clinics, where life is being sown up and prevented.

      "20 million murdered babies"...now THAT is hyper-emotional!

      How about the real, live babies that must die or be made parentless, so you can play John Wayne?

      Oh My GOD.......Harry--they are Killing babies in the vasectomy clinic!!!

      "Don't worry Dear.....it's men doing it, so it's fine."

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      Also, ever read my hub "License To Kill"?

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      Jack:

      Advocating a sort of "Mutually Assured Destruction", as LMC alluded to :P

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: "Early last year, after a series of frightening encounters with her former husband, Stephanie Holten went to court in Spokane, Wash., to obtain a temporary order for protection.

      Jack replies: Thank you, lmc, for pointing out to the world that a protection order is a worthless piece of paper. But lmc really thinks that the ONLY way this thug could have harmed this woman was with a gun. The idea of using a knife, baseball bat or even his fists just never would have occurred to him.

      In the meantime, we can enjoy these dozens of stories from just that past few weeks where ordinary citizens save their lives with firearms.

      http://www.examiner.com/article/30-days-of-guns-sa...

      lmc sez: This country has taken the 2nd amendment as the right to kill-- wherever, whenever and whoever you like:

      Jack replies: There ya go, Dear Readers.... can you say "hyper-emotionalism"? I knew you could.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: I think the goal of the NRA and such is to make sure every person is armed : the more deadly the weapon, the better...that way we will all kill each other off, and save their Masters the trouble.

      jack replies: This is really the best that lmc can do, eh. Over the decades I've seen people equal her rank hyper-emotionalism but none exceed it.

      lmc sez: One mind...any weapon would not have worked with a hammer or a fist in Aurora, Sandy-Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.

      Jack replies: But a hammer and fist worked with the thousands of dead people over just the past few years, which far exceed the number of people who were killed in the incidents you mentioned. But you don't care about that, do you. Their deaths are meaningless to you, eh. Totally insignificant.

      lmc sez: That took a gun. Massively loaded, locked and ready.

      Jack replies: What gun was responsible for the murders of 100 people at Happy Land night club?

      What gun was responsible for the 400 deaths in Oklahoma City?

      What gun was responsible for the deaths of thousands on 9/11?

      Oh... what's that you say? There were no guns involved in any of these and many other incidents?

      lmc sez: asy to get: easy to use: easy to kill.

      Jack replies: Again, when you figure out a way to stop evil in people's hearts then get back to us.

      lmc sez: But go ahead...it's your right.

      Jack replies: lmc still can't explain how and why a bad guy doing evil actions affects my rights.

      lmc sez: Just keep your dam paws off women then will ya?(not you personally, ok?)

      Jack replies: Okay... just don't murder innocent babies and I will never put a paw on you.

      lmc sez: Don't people like this ever tell me how much they value life.

      Jack replies: 20 million murdered babies over the past few decades and lmc thinks this is find and dandy... and she "values life."

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      tpc sez: So the goal should be to make sure that weapons are capable of killing the least number of people possible,

      Jack replies: How about a goal of a society where people don't run wild, thinking they have the right to "kill as many people as possible"?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "Early last year, after a series of frightening encounters with her former husband, Stephanie Holten went to court in Spokane, Wash., to obtain a temporary order for protection.

      Her former husband, Corey Holten, threatened to put a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger, she wrote in her petition. He also said he would “put a cap” in her if her new boyfriend “gets near my kids.” In neat block letters she wrote, “He owns guns, I am scared.”

      The judge’s order prohibited Mr. Holten from going within two blocks of his former wife’s home and imposed a number of other restrictions. What it did not require him to do was surrender his guns."

      Well--you can guess what happened: he shot her and she died.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/facing-protec...

      You can also guess this:

      "Advocates for domestic violence victims have long called for stricter laws governing firearms and protective orders. Their argument is rooted in a grim statistic: when women die at the hand of an intimate partner, that hand is more often than not holding a gun.

      In these most volatile of human dramas, they contend, the right to bear arms must give ground to the need to protect a woman’s life.

      In statehouses across the country, though, the N.R.A. and other gun-rights groups have beaten back legislation mandating the surrender of firearms in domestic violence situations. They argue that gun ownership, as a fundamental constitutional right, should not be stripped away for anything less serious than a felony conviction — and certainly not, as an N.R.A. lobbyist in Washington State put it to legislators, for the “mere issuance of court orders.”

      ******

      This country has taken the 2nd amendment as the right to kill-- wherever, whenever and whoever you like: "Stand your ground" is basically carte blanche! After they're dead....who can dispute you?

      ---Congratulations.....fear and bullying are alive and well...sanctioned by law.

      But let's make sure those women who remove an egg are criminalized. Congrats---you did it.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, TPC...you would think that wouldn't you?

      I think the goal of the NRA and such is to make sure every person is armed : the more deadly the weapon, the better...that way we will all kill each other off, and save their Masters the trouble.

      ******

      One mind...any weapon would not have worked with a hammer or a fist in Aurora, Sandy-Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.

      That took a gun. Massively loaded, locked and ready.

      Easy to get: easy to use: easy to kill.

      But go ahead...it's your right.

      Just keep your dam paws off women then will ya?(not you personally, ok?)

      Don't people like this ever tell me how much they value life.

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image
      Author

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      So the goal should be to make sure that weapons are capable of killing the least number of people possible,

    • Alberic O profile image

      Alberic O 4 years ago from Any Clime, Any Place

      IMC- People who are somewhat knowledgeable in firearms (regardless of their position in gun control) know this. 2,226 or so guns that are not included is irrelevant to the validity of the law. The law doesn't make sense, and if passed, it's not gonna limit crime. What makes a pistol grip on a semi automatic rifle more dangerous than a semi automatic rifle without one? Nothing. If you want to address crime, do something to address repeated felons who cause 90% of the violent crime. Universal background checks make more sense than this law. And quite frankly, I agree with them.

      I'm not saying all gun laws are bad, but many laws addressing guns that do not make sense come from people that have little understanding of firearms and violence. Violence is caused by people, hence the quote, 'One Mind, Any Weapon.'

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: Good--I know nothing about guns except they are made to kill.

      jack replies: Okay, lmc, time to put up or shut up. I've begged you in the past to help me with the gun dealers who won't give me back my money for my guns that I've had for decades that have not killed anyone.

      Obviously they sold me defective guns. If you would only let me have your phone number I am sure you can persuade these dealers to a more reasonable position. They only laugh at me when I tell them they sold me guns that are only made to kill something and they have never, ever, once killed anything.

      I am sure they will respect your argument.

      lmc sez: But I personally think it's the height of foolish to compare a gun with a fist or a hammer: different strokes I guess.

      Jack sez: How bloody cold minded of you to so easily dismiss these thousands of innocents who have been killed over the past few years with hammers and fist. That is a "different stroke" indeed.

      lmc sez: Perhaps then, you know something about this list of 2,226 or so guns that are not included in the assault weapons ban?

      Jack replies: lmc is perfectly fine with the government telling libraries that they can have 2,226 books on their shelves, but only the ones the government approves.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Mike sez: Your turn. I'm not sure I am going to be able to convince her that a .40 calibre Glock is not an assault rifle or even a rifle.

      Jack replies: the .40 caliber Glock? You mean the handgun that shoots 100 rounds with one pull of the trigger, turns invisible so that metal detectors won't pick it up, and shoots down tanks a mile away and airplanes cruising at 30,000 feet.

      No wonder she wants it banned.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      Lmc sez: "high-capacity magazines, .40-caliber Glock, AR-15 assault rifle, .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic assault rifle" ...from above. These I want banned. And those bullets that go through police vests.

      Jack replies: As noted above several times, lmc still doesn’t actually know what any of these firearms are. But they sound ssscccaaaarrryyyy and that is sufficient enough for her.

      Lmc sez: Do you know anything about the 2,236 guns that will be allowed should this bill pass?

      Jack replies: lmc believes that it is acceptable to ban 42 versions of the Bible because that still leaves 23 different versions that people can choose from. And that it’s okay to ban Fox News because that leaves four other cable news channels to choose from. And that it’s okay to ban conservative columnists because that still leaves liberal ones to choose from.

      Lmc sez: There was a story about a man pulling a gun on the woman ahead of him in line because she had too many items....

      Jack replies: Lets’ match stories from the past few weeks….

      • Man shot while trying to break into house, police say (LA)

      • Resident fires at 2 suspected of break-in (PA)

      • Homeowner: Illegal entry was more than that (MI)

      • Drive-Through Shooting Leaves Would Be Robber Dead (CA)

      • Mobile home intruder met by gunfire (AK)

      • Robbery victim shoots attacker (South Africa)

      • Gun shop owner apprehends suspect during armed robbery (TX)

      • Prowler prompts man to fire gun (IN)

      • Fatal double shooting in Jacksonville ruled justifiable homicide (FL)

      • Jeweler gets best of robbers in gun fight (LA)

      • Gunman Shot By Store Clerks During Acampo Robbery (CA)

      • Robbery suspect killed at diner (TN)

      • Man kills burglar, police say (LA)

      • Police: Armed burglar killed by homeowner (TX)

      • Early Morning [Self-Defense] Shooting (FL)

      • Homeowner, 79, Not Charged For Shooting Intruders (KY)

      • Police say man was killed in self-defense (WI)

      • Intruder Shot To Death After Breaking Into Home (FL)

      • East Side Shooting Involved Earlier Assault, Vandalism (TX)

      • 79-Year-Old Shoots Two Intruders, Police Say (KY)

      • Merchant ends holdup, shoots robber (IN)

      • Suspect shot in head by liquor store owner (CO)

      • No charges for wife who shot and killed her husband (NY)

      • District attorney's office rules shooting was self-defense (NC)

      • Woman won't face charges in husband's death (SC)

      • Police: Burlington store owner shoots would-be burglar (NC)

      • Convenience store owner fatally shoots would-be armed robber (TX)

      • Police: Store Clerk Shoots Back At Robbers (NC)

      • Alleged Burglar Shot in East Montgomery (AL)

      • Teen Intruder Shot By Neighbor, Police Say (MS)

      • Mother Fights Back Against Intruder (TX)

      • Grand jury no-bills woman in shooting (TX)

      • 2 try to rob jewelry store; 1 suspect shot, still at large (AZ)

      • Jewelry Store Owner Grabs Gun, Chases Robber (MI)

      • Police: Homeowner shoots, kills intruder (TN)

      • One Man Dead, Another Arrested After Attempted Robbery (NC)

      • No indictment in fatal [self-defense] shooting (KY)

      Lmc sez: No: but free speech is regulated

      Jack replies: You simply have no concept of prior restraint, eh… but you think that speech is “regulated.”

      Lmc sez: If you are safe and reasonable, you are in the majority: however, the minority is a deadly one....

      Jack replies: she would have us regulate our freedoms by the unlawful actions of .0001 percent of those who have a gun. The 99.9999 percent who do no harm only have as much freedom as the actions of those social deviants allow us. And this is her “common sense” approach to gun control.

      Lmc sez: And if guns are so highly regulated, how do these mass murders keep happening?

      Jack replies: When you find a cure for the evil in men’s hearts then get back to us.

      Lmc sez: Something is not working, and something must be done.

      Jack replies: lmc doesn’t even know what the problem is, and she expects us to believe that she knows what “must be done.”

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: I want to ban military style assault rifles. You say no...why?

      Jack replies: Generally, if someone wants to "ban" something the obligation is on them to make the case for it. You cannot make any case except "I don't like them."

      That's it. And that's why we don't have to explain "why not."

      lmc sez: I don't want guns in bars and grocery stores...how come we can't regulate that?

      Jack replies: Some people say they don't like black people and Jews in bars and grocery stores. I suppose you have sympathy for their point of view and want to know why that cannot be regulated.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: And speech is most definately regulated. Check HP for the prime example. I can't speak in forums. Where is my 1st amendment right to free speech?

      Jack replies: When you learn the difference between actions of the government and actions of private parties then get back to us, eh.

      Do you really think you can go into someone's home and have a "right to free speech"? Or someone's business?

      lmc sez: 1st amendment is not pure: neither is 2nd. 4th is gone: so stop acting like 2nd is sacrosanct. It isn't.

      Jack replies: When you learn what "prior restraint" is then get back to us, eh. We can discuss the issue on an adult, rational level with facts and reason or we can discuss it purely on emotions with no real understanding of the legal issues involved. The choice is yours.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 4 years ago from The Midwest

      lmc sez: Why is your right to have a gun superior than my right to be free from it?

      Jack replies: Basically, because you have NO right to be "free from it."

      None. Nada. Zippo.

      And you don't understand that.

      You see, even the lowest animal has a right to self defense... and there are no animals that have a right to be free from any danger, in all places, at all times.

      I and everyone else have a right to defend ourselves. Our carrying a firearm for the expression of that right impacts you in no way. You don't have to carry it for us... you don't have to shoot it for us. We require absolutly NOTHING from you in order to exercise our right.

      But you? You want the "right" to make everyone take action according to YOUR sense of what you want. You demand that other's actually change their behavior... that your "right" demands that they actually "do" something.

      Where as our right to defend ourselves requires nothing from you. And that is why you don't have such a "right" as you think. You have no right to demand any action from us.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Good--I know nothing about guns except they are made to kill.

      But I personally think it's the height of foolish to compare a gun with a fist or a hammer: different strokes I guess.

      Perhaps then, you know something about this list of 2,226 or so guns that are not included in the assault weapons ban?