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LoneStar - Obviously you disagree with PC and history. Do you really believe that the plantation owners wouldn't be putting the lash to the back of their slaves in the South today if it weren't for the federal gov't?
Lonestar, you HAVE to be kidding! Everything Pcunix wrote is as true as it gets! Yeah, I totally see your point that killing millions of jews (and we fags and other brokens) is the same as mandating obedience to decency. You prefer whipping posts?
Entitlements and regulations are not the same thing as 'interference'. Entitlements breed dependence on handouts rather than self sufficiency. Your 'interference' is simply the government doing its job by protecting and defending its citizens.
KK, entitlements and regulations are interference in the the market place and usually push prices up and do the opposite as intended. This also eliminates competition and quality services.
Government interference is very much like satan's interference in the Garden of Eden. The promise of real freedom to be like God was a lie that enslaved us to sin with the intent to control mankind for satan's benefit. Slavery's beginning
It was also based on the premis and with the knowledge that it "would only work if, and only if" the People prove themselves to be Ethical. Well, the People have shown themselves incapable of that. So, the rest of the Constitution kicks in.
Better read that document again. How 'bout I choose to stick one of NRA's precious guns in yours or any one else's back, and take your money so that I can fill my belly for the first time in 3 days. And...who polices the police? Themselves? HA!
So what you are saying is you don't believe in #3: Conditions for quarters of soldiers or #6:Right to a speedy trial, witnesses, read them here http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/BillOfRights.h... If you still don't believe, then I'm sorry.
My Esoteric, the government isn't ethical, despite what you think, government writes laws to benefit the corporations. Listen to Thomas Jefferson my friend
I wasn't talking about gov't, I was talking about the People. John Adams, et al, made it clear that the Constitution would only work if the People of America, as a group,and hopefully as individuals, acted ethically. Otherwise,this experiment fails
I like the way you think and write.
You do realize that corporations write those regulations, and pay off government to pass them.
I think, Sportsbetter, that is what my second para said. During the EPA period, however, that didn't happen so much; that is why our air and lakes got cleaner. Nevertheless, I personally watched what you are talking about during my time with DoD.
*Not* a fan of your politics, but you either have a natural and admirable command of America's political history, or you sure did due diligence to the research. I'm voting you up, and kinda hope you have car issues or something on super Tuesday! ;)
Your position is well stated and thought out. Thank you for contributing to this discussion.
What is the connection between corporations and entitlements? Can you give me some examples?
Government has become insurance for big business. They are able to write regulations and pay off politicians to pass them.
... and the pols are delighted to peddle the influence.
Recent examples include the funding of solar energy in the billions as an alternative to current energy. Why, they donated millions to campaigns of those who approve their cause at the expense of those they represent. Think of Enron........
Medicare might sound good, but it actually pushed medical costs up because govt had to inflate to pay for it.This is why so many ppl can't afford healthcare.Before ppl were able to afford costs because prices were low.It causes more harm than good.
Medicare may be essential to survival now because it is what government wants us to believe. Laws enslave and the more entitlements or laws are in effect the more beholden we are to government and less to what is real, freedom of choice
If you dump Medicare, what happens to people who use it? If it hadn't started, what would the lives of those it was designed to help be like?
My Esoteric, you can't cut off the people who are dependent on Medicare. You end all the wars and save the money that way to pay for those people. To get off of Medicare we stop having people put money in and transition out of it.
and the answer to my second question is?
Esoteric, there wasn't a need for it. There were many churches that gave free healthcare. Also the cost was very low because the government didn't inflate the cost yet.
The way I remember it, many elderly were having a very rough time of it because the communities were not supporting them.
Also, health costs were low then because most healthcare was non-profit then; their focus was helping people, not making money.
Au contraire, the founders went to great lengths to assure that there could be no strong governing body of the United States. They built checks and balances six ways from Sunday. Their system has been largely dismantled, and that is a problem for us.
Actually those changes that are 'mandated' by Congress are precisely its job as laid out in the Constitution. We may not always agree with them, but those are our elected reps and we have to take responsibility for our votes.
KK, we might vote for these people, but they are chosen by the elite ruling class, and don't really have much of a choice. They are friends behind the scenes.
The purpose of the founders was to reduce the power of government enslaving its citizens with taxes and rules to enrich those in power, The king of England. Many died to provide us the understanding of what freedom is and a way to protect it
SportsBetter, I bet all of those Tea Partyers in Congress will disgree with your implication of them being simple puppets of the elite ruling class.
Silly, unconstitutional, bettor or better? Talk about loaded ...
Yes you would have the right to get married with contract laws. Anyone would be allowed to make a contract with anyone. So if a gay person wanted to get married they would write a marriage contract. Abortion would be dealt with by the state.
You're a keen observer, Attikos.
Does freedom of choice include freedom from religion?
I agree, the question poses false equivalences. You either choose freedom or government entitlements and regulations. Why can't you have both? You can have social security, medicare and still regulate financial markets and still be free.
Social Security may be helping people, but younger generations won't receive anything because the fund is bankrupt they stole the money. Medicare pushed prices up and less and less people are able to receive healthcare.
LWN sez: "Does freedom of choice include freedom from religion?"
From it? In your own personal life, sure. You can believe whatever you like, though government is working to bring back sedition law, so enjoy it while you can.
...and Shura's law triggers: when desperate, those trapped in an argument's corner will cite THE most extreme (often inapt) nonexample of an alleged apocalyptic consequence of his opponent's position, and monger said position as THE catalyst.
Freedom of choice allows for individuals to make their own decisions within the context of preserving humanity and the continuation of our right to worship God who gave us the ability to know what is right and wrong not dictate it as government does
And small government can do that quite nicely. Municipal, county, state governments doing the heavy lifting while a nimble national government sets the stage for our liberty. Too bad America has lost that.
No 'freakin' way. When the cat's away, the mice will slay. Willie Francis? Rodney King? No Mayberry "nimby" "old-fashioned values" are gonna be forced down THIS throat by some local bully in blue who breaks the rules he decides with gung ho smug.
Hey Stan, You'd rather have the federal bully come down on you?
Yes, because at least he's consistent, has MUCH more directly and formally articulated rules, and Joe asshole with a badge can't go trippin' off of his blue collar power and choose his targets. Damned RIGHT fed beats rule by whimsy and prejudice!!!
There is a fine balance between freedom and rights. When rights become the law of the land, freedoms are forgotten as the rights dictate and enslave. Protecting freedom yes, not man made rights
Rights are () but freedom *spoken*. The flipside of law's coin is the ()GL's code of restrictions/prohibitions - which, if not specifically and Oxford's Unabridged-level ARTICULATED!, are Void for Vagueness *at* *least*, and morally reprehensible.
If the government wasn't involved in healthcare, as they have been for the last 40yrs, prices wouldn't be so high and there would be more competition.Obamacare will raise costs more, and Govt won't have enough money to pay for it. Then inflate.
Actually, prices are so high for healthcare in the United States because, for one reason, for example, unlike the governments of every other advanced industrialized nation, the U.S. federal goverment not allowed to negotiate drug prices.
There's a reason. The lower price negotiated by a big purchaser with extramarket leverage, e.g. government, isn't applied in a vacuum. A higher price to unprivileged buyers, e.g. consumers, is the result. This policy is meant to protect them.
The Constitution isn't dead. It is the people who have become complacent in their understanding of freedom which now has a cost of enslavement and eventual death of a free people.
Not even close. The purpose of the Constitution is to provide for the People Life/Liberty/Happiness/etc; of govt it is to carry out the mandate of the Constitution; of Supreme Court it is to make sure Congress stays in line. It hase worked well.
That's the broadest possible reading of the US Constitution as a living document. It is an opinion, not a fact. Every state has a constitution; it is constituted as it is. The US has a Constitution; the nation-state is not Constitutional.
Come again? When the 9, then 13 States ratified the Constitution in 1787-8, and agreed to live in federation with the federal government governed by the provisions of the Constitution. Where do you get your American history, Rush Limbaugh?
So, here come the smears, along with a cutoff of further discussion. Ain't that always the way when talking with an establishmentarian? Good job, ME.
Et tu, Brute?
The free market offers viable solutions, not government. No one asked you to answer the question.
Does it? For absolutely *every* citizen??? It's a little difficult for a quadraplegic to pull him/herself up by the (gag! hurl! puking out my intestines for the arrogance of the finger-wagging utterance of...) bootstraps.
Subversive rhetoric isn't what this is. It is the freedom of citizens to discuss the role of government in our lives and help all of us make choices so we truly are a free people who make decision and suffer the consequences, important to freedom
I wanted it to be vague.
I don't find it vague at all. The 2 sides of the "either-or" are not opposites and that is the seductive lie being sold us. Tyranny is wrapped in a sweet package.
The separation of white house and Christianity can only happen when government doesnt dictate morals. When governments make laws contrary to Christianity, they define religion for all of us meaning we are no longer free.
I wonder why so many rich reds (not saying you're rich or accusing you of being conservative) never remember "..and FOR the people". There it is in black and white/ those on the left are in the right!
Where you and I differ is that I don't think Government knows what is best FOR their people. Just ask China. The right is for the rights of the individual. The left believes the individual is unable to make it without HELP from the Government.
Help from the government is the reason we have so many problems.
All governments claim to be "FOR the people." They justify all sorts of tyrannical conduct that way. SOME of the people always buy it, or at least think it's to their advantage, so they go along never stopping to think their turn may come next.
Bewre th logical fallacy! H'ler drnk H2O. Dsn't mke it wrong. Our foundng arc/tects knw ths vry wll. "Bad" cntries/l'drs may have prpagndzed "4 the p'ple". Dsn't nullify th real m'ning. I hold our gov to that. Req law+ordr = dty to srve ALL.
... and Godwin's Law triggers ...
Government is very good at persuading the people that they are needed. Most people forget our founders were against government, that is why they started a revolution and wrote a constitution.
Really, Attikos?! How petty. Ya play snarky grammar cop, too? Fine. Bin Laden drank water. Wrong? No. As does Charles Manson, Romney, & did "Pontius Pilate ". The point's the same: false analogy. "For the people": good. Past misuse? In
You know, Stan, they sell Valium right down the street.
SportsBetter, not quite right. the Founders who voted AGAINST ratification of the Constitution were AGAINST a federal govt, just as you say, BUT, those Founders who voted FOR it, were obviously FOR a stronger federal govt than they had a the time.
That's why the Federalists got Jefferson out of the way by sending him to France, hijacked the Constitutional Convention, ignored the limits of its charter, and did what they wanted.
Attikos, you apparently don't think very highly of George Washington and Benjamin Franklin then, do you, two main principals of the Constitutional Convention who kept it on track. BTW, do you know who was in France with Thomas Jefferson and why?
The US government was being hijacked since our founding. Look up the Bavarian Illuminati
I'm not especially fond of their ideas, but the Federalists were pikers compared to today's nationalists. As for who was with Jefferson in France, at the time of the Convention, Martha and Sally. Do you know who returned for it while he stayed there?
Darn, I was going to say John Adams, but I was off by a couple of years for he was ambassodor to England in 1787, while Jefferson performed the same duties in France. Franklin had come back from France in 1785.
Alas appears the tactic of last resort, when you cannot account for the oops of a non sequitur or other logical fallacy, you make the cheap joke to divert so you don't lose face to your barfly buddies. Your citing of past "for" misuse *still* inapt.
Government is encroaching on our freedoms daily as leaders work to pass laws to keep themselves in power not empower people who with freedom find more power in themselves from the decisions they make good or bad.
I hear if you make over 120,000 a year you don't have to pay into social security.
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