If as humans all we need is food&water, shelter, love, work and belief shouldn't we be cutting down on our material luxuries? Is corporate greed to blame for the current recession and financial anxiety? Are tax havens for the rich immoral?
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Yes, OK, greed seems to outbox responsibility every time. The capitialist ethos has run amok. Tax havens legally set up where trillions of dollars lay gathering interest! Whilst children die of sickness an starvation? New Global Vision please.....
So you have how many greedy wall streeters? 100? 5000? How many people live in this country? Millions have wealth, are they all greedy? I think not! The poor dont' give out jobs!
Neither do the wealthy. Jobs are created by consumer demand. When demand is down, so are jobs. Gutting the biggest economic segment of this country to help the wealthy few is what's keeping the economy from recovering.
True, there'll always be poorer people around and true we all need incentives- the free market allows us to accumulate non stop. But when is enough too much? I'd start at the top and regulate tax havens for the mighty and corporate fat cats.
So, the privileged are greedy and of course the rich is what is keeping people down I suppose. Hell if I could I would setup a tax haven myself.
Chef, "enough" is whatever an individual decides to do w/ their OWN $. As to your 2nd point, the more regulations & costs associated w/ business, the higher the price of goods & services. The answer is a flat/fair tax...not a punitive tax for
Brainwashed. How many times does this government and the people who own it have to spit in your face before you realize that it's not the player or his or her hard work or integrity. It's the game. It's rigged. It always has been. Wake up.
Mitch, I totally agree. Why all this animus against the rich and/or successful among us! If you got it, use, flaunt, and enjoy. Poverty is not a chic lifestyle. People need money to live well. Thank you kindly and the more, the better!
@GMWilliams..Is that what you plan on telling the Father when your time comes? Golden!! AWESOME... You win the prize today.
Take away government powers and they can not auction them to corporations. Get rid of government power by eliminating the Federal Reserve. The Fed perpetuates the system of debt. They are insurance for Govt and Corps so they don't have to compete.
You make this sound like the weather! We need a new vision for the banking system and the free market regulated in certain areas. Accumulation of wealth in tax havens is immoral but made legal by people in power and propaganda.
You are brainwashed. The business cycle is just an educated way of describing currency and material manipulation. It's all controlled by the bank in order to ensure that you and I never achieve ownership, which means sovereignty, or better freedom.
Religious element? Interesting. If we worship the dollar -and we do - we should democratically make it work for everyone as much as possible for the good. That should mean banning tax havens/loopholes and distribution to dying children. Why not?
This comment comes from YOU? If that is your real picture.............well they say a picture is worth a thousand words...................
Thanks, ok, perhaps if I say- trillions of corporate dollars are locked away in tax haven accounts gathering interest whilst children are starving.......is that too narrow and simple?
No I do not mean that at all. Money is a means, that is all. We cannot go into the motives of men..at least I will not..because then we go into lots of complications..I can only say greed is not necessarily the motive of some who accumulate wealth.
HalleluYah sis. Well said. I don't feel so alone anymore!
chef, who ever said it is up to corporations to feed the world? Did you ever wonder why children starve in countries with jungles and plenty of rain? THEY have to change their future, farming etc.
Who said it? That would be YHWY Most High. The message was repeated by his Son, Yahoshua Ha Masciach, that's who. It's in the scriptures. Leviticus & Deuteronomy.
That's a powerful image( man eating to explosion point), one Monty Python used in a movie of theirs (Meaning of Life?). The crux seems to be whether accumulation of wealth - tax havens etc- remains amoral...children starve..make another documentary?
I think wealth is immoral. Of course people will define wealth differently. For some, 5 houses are just basic necessities. I think when you start filling your pool with imported spring water, you have gone too far.
Junk, "wealth is immoral"?...So, a person works hard and accumulates "wealth" and this is bad? Where do jobs and most charity come from? the poor or the rich? Wealth is nuetral, neither good nor bad...it is the use that makes it one or the other.
So the Master collects the world's bounty at his table and I'm supposed to say thank you for the scraps he sweeps on the floor? His collection isn't a result of hard work or talent. It is a result of greed. He has taken my bounty and I want it back.
Junk, if you mean the over burdensome tax that businesses and the top 20-50% pay, then I agree...if you mean businesses that took the risk and gained profit for it, then no...what have you been denied because someone else prospered?
Here is the real problem. The explanation should only have gone as far as the "and". In a sane world, we would look for the sin that caused us to err and not rationalize it any further than finding it. After finding it, we fix it and it is no more
@Mitch - Denied? A future, world peace, equality, freedom.
@Elder - Actually that sounds like a Biblical world. In a SANE world, we examine systems and alter them to achieve better outcomes.
Junk, instead of gereralities without substance, be specific. What future, equality, freedoms have you lost? and, how was it the success of someone else that caused it?
Mitch, you've presented a reasonable disagreement and I appreciate that, but I was purposefully being a bit flippant. There's just no way to turn this 250 character-at-a-time forum into a critique of the whole of Capitalism.
Sure there is...one topic at a time; 250 character at a pop... :)
What you call greed, I call ambition, work ethic, energy, movers, shakers, doers..................ever got a job from a poor person?
Ever enslaved a bunch of "poor" people? The system you love so much goes back to the tower of Babel and like that tower, the Most High brought it down and scattered the pagan who worshiped idols there. 1st world is no different.
People - bravo- the debate has to close here-great work. Perhaps the need for a total review of the banking system is due along with transparency, a new moral financial code and fairer distribution of wealth based on saving young life world wide.
Greed? The words ambition, success, work ethic, thinkers, etc. were the words used to describe what liberals today call greed. Ever got a job from a poor person? Stop listening to Obama
No, the word is greed. A better two words is "Reprobate Minds" Obama is more of a corporatist than you. You need to raise your consciousness above the same old liberal/conservative childishness.
AR, liberals are just as familliar with Webster's (or dictionary.com) as re/cons. Greed's def. has not one of those words you cited. And you mock our "intellectualism"?? Methinks there is not a shred of nobility in being willfully wrong!
You're right. With corruption rife in the banking system we need a thorough overhaul. But who can do this? Judges can jail fraudsters but the buck stops with politicians. Democracy wherefore art thou?
"Democracy" isn't the answer- PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is.
The politicians will always cater to the banks. The only way it will work is to remove government power. Without power the government can't give out benefits to corporations. The people also need to understand this to put pressure on politicians.
How does one transfer zero wealth to the wealthy? How do you take money from someone that doesn't have any?.............this comment makes no sense.
Well they have money just not much. Through taxes, through inflation. Poor pay higher prices and that money is transferred to the wealthy corps because the poor buy their products to survive. If they had money of value they could buy more spend les
AR, SB did not allege or even *IMPLY* zero wealth. Taken literally (the only correct interpretation of verbal communication), those of/with zero wealth would die of starvation, assuming the "3-3-3" theory is fact, not fable, in less than a month!
The banking system is corrupt, rates are being manipulated and tax havens exist, storing trillions of dollars- that's a start. This isn't about envy, it's about trickery,legal skulduggery and Swiss Banks and Islands= greed. Politicians lack will.
Chef, What is the "fair share" that a person should "give" in confiscatory taxes to be given to someone else who DID NOT EARN it? Give me a number...
OK Mitch, I'd start with the tax dodgers who hire legal advisors and stash huge amounts away. I'd stop this. I'd make it a global mission to build a fund for children who die unnecessarily, anywhere. Not a charity. A fair percentage - untaxed wealth.
American Romance, There seems to be envy against those more affluent among us who worked smart and hard to be where they are today. What this young man is proposing is a totally socialistic philosophy. Being poor is simply not chic!
I saw an awesome story on Yahoo news about the CEO of Lenovo giving his bonus to the employees, dividing his bonus up and giving it willingly to the people under him that helped make him successful. He is not what I would consider greedy.
@AR...Still the Romantic I see. The expansion model is what "Should" happen, but you aren't so silly as to think that it actually does anymore. What's it going to take to open your eyes kid? Starvation, Slavery a FEMA camp? That's what's up soon.
How is zero percent interest rates trickery? Back in the Carter era we had 21% interest rates, study history before you make silly judgements
21% is too low. Things ran better at 90%.
Elder, you want 90% interest rates? or, did you rush read that and thought she said 90% tax rate? Do you pay 90% tax rate? If not, why? You can give more to the government if you choose. If you meant interest rates, I'd like to lend you some money.
Speed reading! 90% was a tax rate suggestion, not an interest rate. ;-) I have no problem with a justly levied tax rate this high IF the dollars are directed at curing the nations problems (not bailouts and invasions). Taxes R supposed 2 B temp.
What "Robber Barons" are you referring to specifically? What do you see as the "inpunity" that is practiced...and be specific.
Maybe here you're talking about tax and whether those with loads of money and influence (your RB's)can pay legal advisors to help them channel cash into Swiss Banks and so forth, denying the economy the flow necessary for more needful distribution?
Google "Robber Barons". Derivatives. I live in Florida. Thousands lost billions. Some dude in NY made billions on derivatives, that were made illegal after the depression. I could go on - limited here. Search "Can You Bank on It" WD Curry 111 for mo
WD Curry, I meant current RB types...but, will look up your Hub when i get a chance.
The "Robber Barons" have outsmarted themselves. With all of the manipulations and new laws, they forgot one basic law. Equilibrium. It works a lot like gravity, but you can't tell that to the greedy.
It would be great if we could stop the world, let everyone see the trillions of dollars hidden away doing nothing but gain interest, overhaul the banking system, stick inspectors on Wall ST, and aim to stop child starvation by 2020. A dream?
What is dominating about a person having wealth? How do the rich dominate you? This is nothing but a mere mindset you have. You live in America my friend and have the same opportunities they did. Ever got a job from a poor person?
With guns and all of those jobs as private paid thugs to guard what your rich folks stole...kind of like you. Did you ever take labor from from a poor person?
Ding. There it is, very neatly wrapped up with a pretty little bow.
Today we have instant communication, global interaction as never before so the social conscience will begin to change, outmoded concepts of elite wealth fade away, I hope. The mechanisms are appearing, the political will not yet caught up.
The middle class came to be BECAUSE of the wealthy! You guys really don't understand America.
The debate is whether enough is too much and too much=greed. Corporate ambition is naturally greedy,monopolies etc. But in this watershed century the moral aspect of wealth needs reviewing and fast. Tax break charity should also be looked at.
Yes, hard work should be rewarded on a fair and sustainable basis. Money earned should be put in to ethical banking systems that use cash generated to benefit those needing immediate help,like starving children anywhere in the world.
Thank you a multillion times!
chef, there you go again? It is not the responsibility of business to sustain life for others? Where do you get this? They create jobs so parents and family can feed their kids.
It actually comes from the scriptures. YHWY blesses and the blessed give back. Year of Jubilee, investment and gleening are the biblical concepts. You worship at the Church of Babylon with Nimrod on your dollar.
Yes, I see. Choice is important but who decides how many choices we have? Is that through customer demand or business principles of expansion at all costs. So you have 5 choices of deodorant for example, why not 15? From seven different companies.
Your logic is flawed. Corporations don't cause greed. They supply product, the greed or lack thereof is a choice on the part of the person.
I disagree, lets look at your electric company, gas company, trash company etc... You do not have any choices there. If you want the service you have to go with them. And they are the only choice.
Dark, we do have choices with those things...and we'd have more choices if people would speak up, vote and hold politicians accountable...leS's government and more free market.
Brainwashed. We have so much that we don't look at those things that are needful. Food, Water & Shelter/Land. Man made none of it, but we buy it from other men who stole control of it. That didn't come from the population, it came from the ri
Disagree with someone on the right and he is likely to think you obtuse, wrong, foolish, a dope. Disagree with someone on the left and he will think you selfish, a sell-out, insensitive, possibly evil, greedy, or brainwashed.
chef..........you answered your own question as to Americas greatness! Come up with a better deodorant and you too live the American dream my friend!
Haha, Romance. If greatness was measured in deodorant choice! I like it. Better still if greatness was measured in generosity, humanity and clarity, especially when it comes to stored (stagnant) wealth- the deprived perish. We should try and stop it.
Chef, how do you share your time and money to fight your fight? I hope you give as much as you demand of others.
You may be right. Creeping greed steals up 'like the proverbial thief'. But the banking system needs overhauling, a moral factor should be brought in. Personal wealth is fine but tax havens/dodges should be totally illegal!! Buying privilege? No.
Remember that those that can afford luxuries are the ones feeding those who can't..........jobs to build those luxuries keep us fed.
If these people are so busy feeding people, why are so man people starving? Do you not read the bible and understand Levitical law? Year of jubilee, corporate investment, usery law, gleening, all opposite concepts of what you describe.
Greed plus corruption - we've always had corruption but moral climates can change jut like the weather. Wouldn't it be fair to take some of the safe trillions of dollars greedily stashed away to distribute to starving/sick children?
Don't rationalize it. That's the problem. We do so much in explaining how long we've been afflicted with the condition and why that we do nothing to change it. It's not to be rationalized but eradicated. That's what the Father has wanted always.
Why do all of you want ambition punished? Without the ambitios we wouldn't have the middle class nor jobs..........come on people! We use to celebrate success and now Obama has you punishing it! Go get a job from a poor person
What these people have done has nothing to do with ambition, but you have to have some kind of moral compass to understand that. You'll never see evil in creating $$ if that's what you worship. 24 empty houses to 1 homeless citizen..Ambition?
What will our future message be? We created so much we lost ourselves.... or we found ourselves? Or the question doesn't exist? Pile up trillions of dollars, send them off to a Swiss Bank. Surely some sort of regulation needs to be introduced?
Chef, the problem in with a federal government that is no longer constrained by the enumerated powers of the Constitution...private citizens should be able to grow their wealth and spend it as they see fit (legally).
There hasn't been any real wealth in this country since the greedy sold it and its citizens into slavery back in 1913.
Domestic programs like Meidcaid and food stamps aren't the cause of our massive deficit. Take a look at our military spending, and how much that has increased. Furthermore, deficit spending isn't responsible for this recession. Personal greed is.
I know! Bugs me how with all these educated Harvard&Oxbridge economy experts nobody can sort the accounts out! You see, propaganda helps us pinpoint the poor as demons but what about the big rich boys and girls at the top. What are they up to now
She gave you the best answer so far! She is right! Blame government not those who create jobs and grow the economy. They outsource because of govt also!
We need to find a new order of moral priorities now that we're truly global. It's a shift in mindset. Yes earned money is 'owned' until taxed. Money is never neutral, it makes or it breaks people. Starving children are last in line -that's wrong.
It's high time the banking system was taken apart, and tax havens/dodges stopped. There are trillions of dollars greedily kept out of circulation. Why? Democracy has allowed it. How? Is this a form of stealing?
Brainwashed. It has to be of concern when those who have the reigns have no sense of satisfaction. A cell in your body with no sense of its own limits is called a cancer. It's no different with the "Privileged".
Actually, apparently, you aren't even intelligent enough to ask why such "tax havens" exist in the first place. All you are concerned about is what other people are doing with their money and figuring out how to steal that wealth.
Is it even possible to steal what has been stolen? At what point did the "Wealth" stop being stolen? The land came from the native americans, the labor and infrastructure..the African Americans... What "Wealth" are you even talking about?
It will be beautiful to actually see the collapse of society today as know it,I wonder how many will cry Foul when Survival of the Fittest is truly the rule of the land and they have their throats slit and raped by those they pander towards.
@Keith-What you are talking about is about 6 months away. It's unfortunate that you don't recognize the seed that would crave hell on the earth, quick to blood so to speak. You get my drift on "Stolen" because you just described the "How". Thanks..
The vision of the anointed, got to love it. I suppose I should feel "guilty" then for what was done centuries ago and apologize. Progressives, bringing up crap that is long dead to make others "feel guilty" for some "perceived" wrong in the past.
Is that what progressives do? Too bad I'm not a progressive. The hate that would covet rape and death damns you. The guilt doesn't come from me, the Messiah is truth and He convicts you. When "your" world comes, don't expect it to favor U.
Excellent answer Keith! Others money does NOT belong to you! I am so glad you get it!
AR would say "Excellent Answer". Even about wanting to get back to some good old fashioned terror, murder, rape and intimidation. It's in his blood being his folks were slave owners. He understands "Business"..."Work Ethic"..."Morality" ;-)
Figuring the beginnings of my family immigrated into America during the early 1900s, I fail to see how it's in my blood and my folks being "slave owners". @AR, of course I get it, anyway, I am done with this, can't argue with blind faith.
"and they have their throats slit and raped" Says what's in your blood. Know them by their "Fruit" is what the scriptures say. I may be blind, but I can read. Slavery is in AR's blood. It seems that violence is in yours.
True, profit margin is king,even to the detriment of US workers. Capitalism at its best, or worst! Tax havens are the creation of pure Greed, capital G. It needn't be this way. Balance has to be restored, not through socialism but by morality.
GM, GE, Boeing, all on the presidents job council...........all outsource to other countries and all get billions in tax dollars!...............Did I mention they are on OBAMAS job council?
Yep. All of them are corrupt just like the office of the President. There is no distinction between the corporate elitists or the politicians that they buy, to keep you in your place. But you know that and would rather play the left/right game.
Darwin, great addition. I think if we can however leave him, religion, cycles, history to one side and concentrate on a conscious decision to ban tax havens simply because legal advisors paid tonnes can easily set them up that would be a sane start.
You have no idea how deep what you just said actually is. That's the Adamic curse of toil all the days of life on this planet. Rejected knowledge is the idea that a curse is actually not a curse and should be accepted