What do you think about this subject? Should we fear major classified leakage or dishonesty from our governments? Which is worse and why?
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That is the way the government wants us to act, like we just can't make it without them and that is how this administration bought most of their votes. They may be surprised to find out many of us still have a backbone!
Polly - You appear to be mentally disabled - or at the very least severely confused.
What in the world does helping the poor as Jesus repeatedly taught have to do w Bush's Patriot Act surveillance-state & Obama's continuance/justification in kind
Amen to both of these comments!
There is secrecy in schools, airports, police departments, small businesses, big corporations, etc. Do you want every detail about you that the government might have posted on the internet. Do you want foreign nations to know our defense strategy etc
If so normal why wouldn't we have been told instead of pretending and even saying nothing like this would happen like it did under Bush, when in fact it is way over the top of anything any administration has done? Lies after claiming transparency?
This has been going on since before the 60s. Anyone who is familiar with J. Edgar Hoover knows wire taps have been on everyone from JFK, Martin Luther King, and countless other citizens. The CIA is covert, No president ever (controlled) them.
There is much going on here, not just one thing but numerous things and anyone with eyesight can see America going down the tubes and it is not from our doing except we have allowed it. Gradually America is disappearing. Very sad.
To paraphrase Leno: A majority of the voters wanted a president who listens to all Americans. They got one.
It's not true this level of pervasive surveillance has been going on all along. The extent of it is something new. Not even W. Bush did this.
The effort began as part of the Bush administration’s post-Sept. 11 programs of surveillance without court approval, which has continued since 2006 with the blessing of a national security court. The court has secretly ruled that bulk surveillance is
We all know Obama is up to something just not exactly what but I think many of us have a pretty good idea. It is not pretty. I can't wait to hear more from this guy.
Polly - Are you capable of separating issues at all?
You seem to jump on any bandwagon that is anti-Obama - "up to something just not exactly what "
Again, this all was started by Bush bc of 9/11 - only W didn't bother with the faux oversight.
OK- then why did he lie? He said he wasn't having any of that and he was transparent. All lies. Now he says we can't have it both ways. Anyone who lies is up to no good. End of story. He fooled me for awhile.He has turned me against the dem party.
Attikos, Do you honestly believe this spying just began 4.5 years ago? The infrastructure for such a system was initiated (long before) that!
Pollyannalana, Anytime it rains you blame Obama! lol! No one man has as much power as you think he has!
I neither think nor wrote that it did. What is new is the extent of it. Nothing as massive as the Obama administration's secret surveillance program has ever been seen before, not in America, not anywhere.
Attikos, Please accept my apologies. I overlooked the word extent. Needless to say both the president & congress are in on this. The national security committee is made up of people from both parties! This issue is bigger than one person or admin
He has as much power as people will give him and look the other way every time he gets caught up. If he doesn't destroy us in what time he has left which he is trying hard to do, we might survive. Yes sir I am against him, audit me and see.
Pollyannalana, It's one thing to (disagree) with a president or political party and another to claim either one is out to "destroy" their own country. People are so emotionally invested in disliking a person that all they can or want to see is bad.
Another reason I dislike Boehner... As for Edward, it's possible he is in China and (erroneously) singing their praises because he believes that's where the US can't spy on him via (some) electronic means. I don't consider him a traitor.
If Obama had lost the election and Mitt Romney won, with the Secret Court and the Post 9-11 laws in place, would those of you who are concerned really feel any better, or if Hilliary Clinton had been elected, would you be happier.
I find it odd they are not spying on potential terrorist? Why waste all that time and energy on innocent law abiding citizens, then give Miranda rights to a terrorist who has been caught? How many are they really fooling if "they" told truth?
You'd think all this surveillance would actually help accomplish something like preventing the Tsarnaev brothers from bombing a foot race, wouldn't you? After all, there was no dearth of information they were up to something.
Polly - Because in our court system, a defendant has certain rights before the court. You are labelling a person as a terrorist before they even have a trial - aren't people innocent till proven guilty in this country?
Well I am not going to be on the jury so I guess it is OK to say I saw the tapes of him and his brother and besides that he has admitted guilt. I am not too good on political correctness you might say. That is going to be the death of America.
Polly - Now you're saying that innocent-till-proven-guilty is simple political correctness - which is going to be the death of America?
Innocent-till-proven-guilty is a founding principle of our nation, not just PC BS.
I hope you don't vote.
No, it's not that. It's a rule of procedure in courts, a principle of the common law of England. It is not a founding principle of the United States. It does not apply in public opinion or discourse.
I am waiting now for Obama to prove he is innocent after having two different stories about this and promising he would NOT be doing this. Who can trust a liar? Oh I voted for him once and I rue that day. He wants all our information and our guns!
It would be impossible for anyone to process all the secret information that has been gathered. Some of those secrets make it possible for you to keep the right to make the claims you make. The constitution does not require all things be public.
We were saying the same thing in the 1960s during the campus riots, Watts, Democratic convention and assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King. It was also during Vietnam, the development of real Civil Rights and a lot more.
Well I cannot believe that not even the republicans are getting to the bottom of things this administration is doing to very fast. They are all in on something it looks to me. But we are not living in the 60s so why go there? Today is what matters.
Great comment that I don't see who with a clear conscience could argue with. I had no idea America was for sale but yes, this administration has shown me what some will put up with for a free phone. Whistle blowers may have saved us. We will see.
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Sorry I haven't been back in awhile. I am glad to see you think that way even being in the position you were. Clearly this man has opened a can of worms that we had a right to know about. I think he is very brave and did it for his country.
Yes it seems all the governments are playing a power game. Strange that ours is now at these critical time being so deathly quiet.
You make some excellent points and I wish some of our government members give this some consideration before they call for a lynching party! There will no doubt be much more revealed in the next few days. This house of cards is going to tumble.
Good to hear those words and my thoughts exactly. I think the man really is doing something that could cost him his life and he knows it. Look how long scandal has been spilling out of the White House and no one punished or even answering anything!
The institutionalization of America is progressively (so to speak) criminalizing those who step out of line. Individualism is under assault. I would hope the reaction to these revelations will encourage more resistance, but I hear a lot of bleating.
We do need to be heard, sign petitions, call our representatives and make some noise, it is the only thing to let them know we mean business and plan to keep making decisions for this country, by the people.