society? The USA society has been constantly in a degrading mode since the first decision to remove religious artifacts from the schools. This has led to huge increase in immoral activities by many youth as they have been denied spiritual moral training. The constant decline in the educational achievement of the graduating youth is a direct result of this action. How do you feel about this damaging decline?
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JT, I do have to disagree on this one, my friend. This country was founded on religious FREEDOM and the separation of church and state to ensure that it remained free in that respect. Most of our founding fathers were NOT Christian, either. Research.
The Constitution states that the government shall make no law regarding religion. This does not mean that schools cannot permit prayer. Silent prayer is an individual right - it should not be denied by the government.
Laura..... Agree to disagree. God bless you!
Agreed to disagree, JT! :-) Bless you as well!
taburkett--Agreed! Silent prayer is a whole different thing than teaching religion in school. I'm in favor of allowing individuals to pray silently, in school and elsewhere, or not per their beliefs!
Except that's a lie. This country was founded by Theists (not necessarily Christians) who made the decision to NOT make a Christian country. They actively decided to separate religion and state, which was phenomenal at that time.
The reason behind this decision was to give people the freedom to worship without there being any interference from the government. Giving of this freedom was what made this country flourish with God's blessings. And now most turn their backs on him.
Agreed, Aliasis!!! Many would-be US citizens (pilgrims, founding fathers, etc.) had fled religious persecution in their homelands, hence they knew separation of church and state was absolutely VITAL to a stable USA that was truly free!
Isn't that basically how I described it Laura?
Actually, the country was founded on genocide and the appropriation of land from the native people, the extermination of their livelihoods and all the usual exploitations of colonialism. In the name of Jesus.
and today the genocide comes from the politicians bearing fairness and equality while placing more families on the slavery rolls of welfare.
Sorry, JT, I hadn't refreshed to see your post when I was responding to the previous one. But, most people worldwide NEVER worshipped "God"/"Jesus". It's just one path. Christianity has numerous factions. God/Jesus wasn't allowed in my schools.
We had prayer and Bible study in our schools until I reached High school. Then the atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair sued to have prayer taken out of our schools.
We have prayer day here. It's once a year for anyone freely to participate at the flag pole.
one day of prayer and 364 days of gang war.
seems a little one-sided don't you think?
youth that are influenced by evil more than by righteousness breed more evil.
yet many wish to deny such is the case.....
where will the evil rise next?
on the weak
I'm just saying, because a lot of people are saying prayer is forbidden completely. That's not true here. It is only one day, but it isn't completely forbidden.
when you do not confront evil, you permit it to flourish.
my example of one day prayer and 364 days of evil is meant to indicate little support for confronting evil.
many youth today are weak and willing to follow the evil that is spreading. they have learned this from family and schools. bullies continue to hound the weak unless they learn how to confront their oppressors. United weak is power. awake? - you bet.
Right on, Stuff4Kids. Seems like many of these old fashioned types,going out on a limb and guessing they're pretty old, decided to hate today's youth culture without any actual consideration of it. Exhibit A: Taburkett - PS, bullies aren't new, dude.
evil abounds when not confronted.
weak youth are created by eliminating moral instruction.
you are correct bullies aren't new, but they are gaining the upper hand.
united weak through moral instruction will overcome the bully.
faith, integrity, honor
Citation needed, taburkett, don't just ramble. Well, it's good you're concerned about bullies though - some of the most targeted students are gay or transgender kids, many who end up taking their own lives. Get involved and help teach tolerance!
taburkett, having read your comments here I can see that you are probably certifiably insane and there's just no point participating any further in this. I'm gone.
stuff4kids ....... this type of behavior can get you banned. I would select not calling anyone insane on HP.
Right. So you can say that the "youth are following evil" and that's okay but if you suggest that the person who says that is nuts, you're out? Ok. Then let them boot me out. I wouldn't want any longer to be part of anything that thought that was ok.
So, someone is insane for believing differently than you?
*Yawn* Look, I shoulda known better than to think that a sensible discussion might have arisen from this ludicrous question. It's all yours, have the last word. Enjoy. x
I think HP will have the last word.
I agree. Too many lazy parents for sure. Morals are certainly not limited to Christianity.
Agree with you ChristinS, parents today are becoming more irresponsible. They are abdicating their parental role.They believe that everyone should raise their kids,except for them.MANY kids are raising themselves these days,with deleterious results.
60% of all violent crime in the USA is done by individuals 16-25. Of these, 98% come from a single parent home. Of these, 99% were taught in public schools. Of these, none were exposed to Jesus because complacent adults believe Jesus is a school need
Proof for your statistics please. Many people go to church so I don't buy it sorry.
How many school shootings were there when prayer and Bible study were in schools? The writing is on the wall. No one has to buy anything. Christians aren't selling it, society is.
It is the parents who need to choose between a school with or without a certain religious teaching. There are such things as houses of worship with classes. For example, I used to attend Sunday School at my church to learn its teachings.
as a child I also attended Sunday school. this was then reinforced through objects of affection within the public school as a reminder of such teachings. additionally, religious artifacts were not restricted and not viewed as sponsored by government.
FF, Christin, & gm are right. Private schools, parents, private places of worship are for teaching private matters like religion. Else kids will not have their parents values, but those of dozens of weird teachers. Parents need to decide and enfo
C, EXACTLY RIGHT! My mother and father lived in an apartment all their lives, never owned a house, never were able to travel to Ireland where my mother dreamed to go, died without a penny, but they paid tuition for me to go to Catholic school!
you are correct about private school. however, you failed to answer the question whether removing Jesus has aided or damaged. violent crime among young adults 16-25 has tripled in the last 30 years. many believe this is due to the removal of Jesus.
It's far more complex than that taburkett. not every issue is black and white and we have separation of church and state for good reason.
I agree with ChristinS, taburkett. And, separation of church and state does not mean that morals shouldn't be taught/upheld in schools regardless of one's religion. Very complex issue indeed, as ChristinS said: there's good reason for separation.
as usual, opposing individuals wish to deny the small steps that must be taken to restore morality. it is definitely black and white - more children are dying under the current immoral teachings. those who deny this, live in a fantasy world.
Thanks, gmwilliams! ;-)
Laura, I work & observe many youth in my current environment. Many have lost all hope of a fruitful future due to the nature of immoral divisiveness introduced into their education environment. Moral tolerance is being overtaken by evil destructi
The pledge of allegiance was not taken out of my children's schools completely. It was one teacher. But, I don't think that has a direct correlation with religion. For me, it's about the citizenship and America.
taburkett, I agree--immorality is rampant throughout the US (if not the world). We need to teach right from wrong as PARENTS and enforce it in schools: cheating, stealing, hurting others, etc. I just see that as separate from a particular religion.
it takes a village to raise a child.
when the village is immoral, the child becomes immoral.
when the village denies prayer, artifacts, and moral religion the path to immoral is paved.
The moral fiber of youth is greatly impeded by immoral education.
Despite disagreeing with my post, I will agree to your statement that you say not all Christians want that. Because religion is so diverse, I don't want my children taught what others think are correct based on their own beliefs.
Very well said, aliasis, and very open-minded of you, CraftytotheCore! I agree with you both!
Crafty - sorry, I'm not sure what post I disagreed with (I answer a lot of these) but even for Christians, I agree. Christianity is so diverse, whose version of Christianity gets to be taught? Which denomination? That's problematic on its own!
Yes, that's my point exactly! :D
I agree, the situation is much more complex than a simple lack of religion. Bad parenting, negative media influences, declining social skills ...lots of factors present.
Thank you, there are myriad factors as to the decline and demoralization of youth in current society. There is negligent parenting, the deification of thug culture, and many other factors which has NOTHING to do with religion.
Jesus was in the school system for many years before anti-Christianity spawned a volley of evil sentiment bent on removing morals from the curriculum. Morality has declined because of it and society continues to be damaged daily. Simple is truth.
Jesus and Christianity are not the only source of morality, if you want to live in a theocracy there are many far worse countries than us who practice that.
T, Morality has not declined! I just can't see it that way! If you keep thinking that, your feelings will be based on unsubstantiated thought and your conclusions thus will be the result. I really can't live that way. I see goodness all around.
Billie, I too believe there is far much more good in the world than bad - probably because I turn of the TV/Media and go out and experience actual people and society and like you choose to see the good in people.
You and the other ladies said it so well! I
It is not the rise of goodness that is the problem, but the rise of badness. This badness rise begins at an early age for youth who live in a godless world. USA courts have made sure that the godless world exists. Thus, the society has lost morals.
This analysis is typical of the despondent spirit that renders a disheartened enthusiasm for the wreckage within society. This leads to complacency that expands immoral destruction to society. Living through righteousness, I do boycott anti-Christian
You say 'wreckage' I say 'progress'. You say 'truth' I say 'opinion'. You say 'righteous' I say 'dangerous'. Round and round we go. All I ask is that you don't hurt anyone in your crusade against the non believers.
You are hooked on the concept of evil, Taburkett. You will never see beauty and love unless you simply allow it into your life.
the righteous are filled with love as they follow the path that Jesus has shown. The non-believers continue to cower under the path of immoral tolerance that derails the teachings of Christ. This despondent wreckage causes more destruction to society
good people come in all sizes with many reflectors. evil explodes when challenged by good people. Christian teachings follow a simple righteous path to love, honor, and glory. The removal from school has led to corruptive chaos and greater evil.
Nicely said . . . the mission of Jesus was not to create a new religion that everyone would be obligated to follow - instead, he preached universal truths.
The universal "Truth."
Some other Jesusian teachings I like:
* Don't judge lest you be judged.
* The measure by which you judge others will be applied to you.
* If you don't forgive, then you won't be forgiven.
* Before telling your brother about the speck in his eye...
Very well said, amynluv!
no law for separation of church and state exists.
what exists is a Constitutional Amendment as "...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...."
complacency has led immoral youth
It's part of the 1st ammendment to the constitution, upheld by the Supreme Court, so yes, it IS law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_...
if it were law, it would be unconstitutional, therefore, it is a decision - not a law.
Selectively invoking this decision is not unconstitutional.
However, the morals of youth has been reduced through use of this court ruling that damages society.
miss peepers you have described the very essence of the danger generated by the ever growing immoral society. others will disagree but then they are not concerned with the growing society destruction. We must work hard to restore the moral society.
your rendition of Jesus is not far off. For it is the spirit within the individual student that is at risk. The society is filled with incomplete individuals who walk a path of destruction while those who could speak up to correct it remain silent.
righteousness & personal responsibility must be in the classroom if we are to restore the moral society. immoral individuals continue to convince others that it is discrimination against their anti-Christian beliefs. this must end for healing aga
taburkett, if I understand you correctly, I totally agree that "righteousness & personal responsibility must be in the classroom if we are to restore the moral society". I just think that specific religions, like group-led prayer, should not.
Thankfully, both of my children have teachers now that recite the pledge daily! I just have fond memories of that as a child. I was so happy to hear that their teachers participate.
Sorry Laura, but you continue to deny the personal responsibility. Society cannot deny the individual the right to prayer if it is to consider itself moral. Prayer does not injure the individual, but the lack of it has spawned much distress&kil
Agree to disagree, please? I think our hearts are ultimately in the same place: "personal responsibility" sums it up nicely, along with "morality" and the current lack thereof throughout society. Peace and blessings!
I would cut the Pledge, too. It IS a waste of time, and doesn't make kids more moral or more American. Patriotism should be chosen freely out of love for America, not shoved down throats. Most other countries don't do such pledges.
Most countries have more pride for their country than Americans do today.
Today children are overburdened through technical media that portrays evil as good. This causes many children to lean towards immoral activity as they grow. Institutional denial of the danger has led to more burden. Moral restoration must begin soon.
RachelJ1031 you are very correct that children and young adults today are more influenced by the modern immoral culture. This is easily viewed by turning on the TV & schools where teachers expound on immoral experiences rather than moral ones.
from this point of view, one believe no fix for the current trend because you could not fix it during junior & high school. Society is overly filled with such pessimism. That is why it is on a path to destruction. Improvement begins with I.......
:-) I agree with 90% of everything you said! But with 7--they need exposure to all music, not just current-um-stuff. And replace "if the bible" & '10 Command.' with "religion" was introduced at home. Christ. isn't majority belief system worldwide
I don't think my children need to listen to music with "f" words and music that promotes vile things. So that's what I mean by bad music.
LOL TOTALLY agree with you! Also, I think the vehemence of this discussion highlights why religion must not be in public school: it's against the law therefore immoral. Nothing to do with WHICH religion vs atheists vs politics. Just way too complex!
BuffaloGal1960, you are so correct in your society depiction. Busy parents have permitted political government to remove moral instruction in so many ways. The foundation built at home and in school directs the morals of youth. Currently it fails.
10 Commandments also says you can't have any other gods but the Christian god, which is a slap in the face to other religions that make up the US. And Muslim students say their prayers quietly on their own time - not as a class activity.
Consider that the majority of gang members come from deeply religious homes, for Hispanics its Catholic or Christian and for blacks its Baptist or Christian. Virtually every cartel member has a cross on the wall.
No proof gang members are religious but they are evil. Approximately 1.4 million gang members in 33,000 gangs are criminally active within the USA. This is a 40 percent increase since 2009. Do you attribute this to the current corrupt government?
Posting the Ten Commandments? Should gov't tell us to observe the Sabbath? And to have no other gods before me? To not take the name of the Lord in vain? To make no graven images? Really???
I completely agree with you. Everyone always wants to shift blame instead of accept accountability.
It's time for the individuals to stop demanding that we remove teachers who wear Christian Crosses, photos or paintings that depict Jesus, and prayers that Children wish to enjoy. The violence has escalated continually since these actions occurred.
I completely agree with ChristinS and sheilamyers.
taburkett, why did teachers--who should know better--bring their religions with them into the schools, thereby creating the problem? Their removal again is not the source of the violence.
when does the rights of one person overrule the rights of the other? a religious individual has the same right of self-expression as those who are anti-Christian. so where is fairness. it has been removed in favor of those who are anti-Christian.
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