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I'm with you on this one. We've had Marriage equality in NZ for about 2.5yrs - nothing that was fortold would happen if we got equality has happened, other than happy gay couples (like myself) getting married.
How did Canada and New Zealand arrive at "marriage equality?" Was it the dictate of the judicial oligarchy or was it through the democratic vote? There is a significant difference between enacting the will of the people through elections and Decrees.
reteif...HUH?? Makes no sense. "Domestic abuse," is but ONE small percentage of reasons for divorce!! Also, by what means do you get your statistics? Must we start out by wishing people marital strife??
There was no election. It was based on court rulings and then a bill passed by the House of Commons and senate.
We're all still okay.
And yet, 40 conservatives died today because their heads just simply EXPLODED! LOL!
The legislature passed a bill, that is part of the democratic-republican process. The elected representatives of the people passed a law - that is how a democratic republic is supposed to work.
I have a hub on it Retief but in short - it was democratic. Not a nationwide vote, elected MPs were allowed a conscience vote (did not have to vote along party lines) on a private members bill -, three readings/votes + Royal Assent.
Then NZ followed the course of a democratic society. I may not agree with the out come but the people of NZ - through their elected representatives - spoke. The American people have been denied that opportunity by this court decision.
Reteif, would you please remove yourself to the country that better suits your philosophy. Our people have been given freedom, you do not seem to want that.
So, Austinstar, you have appointed yourself arbiter of the First Amendment Freedoms."America love it or leave it." How tolerant of you.Apparently the new flag of hate is rainbow hued.It will be interesting how the recent SCOTUS decisions affect 2016
No I am not dictating to you. I want you to live in a country that suits you. Don't you want to be with people that like you and have like minded ideas such as yourself? Or do you just want to hate on people that think differently and complain a lot.
Where is the hate?2016 will address whether I am alone in my objection to judicial over reach and the court assault on democracy.Point to one thing I have written that is hateful toward anyone.I disagree with an idea you hold as true, is that hate?
It is an hateful act to want to deny marriage and it's benefits based on an outdated definition of marriage. You are judging certain "types" of people to be inferior or not deserving of human happiness. Discrimination is hate by any other name.
Austinstar is right. Discrimination is another form of hatred. To deny gay & lesbian people the right to marriage is pure hatred. Gays & lesbians are human beings & have human rights.
"I disagree with an idea you hold as true, is that hate?" Your answer is "Yes, hater!" Which arm will you tattoo with my death camp identification number?
Absolutely correct! I don't understand these people who think its ok to stick their noses into other people's lives.
Since domestic abuse rates among homosexual couples is roughly the same, I suspect the divorce rate will be similar. After all, people are people.
retief, do you have a source for that information? I sincerely doubt that that statement is true.
Study more, react less.
Or did you want a reference for the statement that "people are people." I thought that one was a tautology.
According to your reference "the statistics on abusive relationships are confusing". Probably not well reported and are, of course, about power and control just like any other couple. I also suspect the divorce rate will be high for LGBTs. Equally
Oh BOY, now I have heard EVERYTHING. Please explain your logic, Mr. Harper as to how same sex marriage in America is the harbinger of doom as you portend.
Just out of curiosity...but you arent one of those people that think the fall of say the greeks/romans was because of homosexuality are you Agua...?
Grace (good name that) ssm is outside of Gods remit for marriage, so when the SUPREME court vote for legalising something which God views as error, in effect the SUPREME court is stating clearly that God is wrong. Bad decision.
Aquasilver - you are so totally wrong! The Supreme Court is saying that the US CONSTITUTION is correct and everyone is equal under the law. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your "god".
" It has nothing whatsoever to do with your "god"." is a valid opinion, just expressed by your country.
I feel great sorrow for the judgement that will come to America for this.
Canada hasn't dropped off the face of the planet yet and they beat us by 10 years...oddly enough they don't seem worse for wear either.
Then again I don't live there, they're probably demon infested for all I know. Or not..
God does not think in years Link, and how far Canada may have already fallen depends on how you view things spiritually against secular thinking.
Just be prepared for BIG changes in September, worldwide, not just North America.
I guess September is another armageddon date?
A step towards love and acceptance for everyone is a step closer to the end of the world... huh. You're right, maybe it is a good thing, because I don't want to live in a world where tolerance and love is a BAD thing.
Harper, I agree with you and all, but why do you think September will be a pivotal month? Reasons? Are you psychic?
Nah, he's just another "end times" enthusiast trying to scare people. Ooooh, I'm quaking in my atheist boots here.
I don't get it - why doesn't this God do something about those kidnapped girls in Nigeria, rather than mess around with harmless gays wanting to marry?
Those poor Nigerian girls aren't REAL Christians! Obviously. Neither is any gay person, or anyone who wants gun control, or any anti- war profiteers. We're just worthless heathens and god doesn't love us.
Mr. Harper, please "enlighten" us as to what "will happen" in September. Now, I am going to get my gourmet popcorn now and listen to this "scenario" you "feel" will "happen". America is progressing and evolving, GET WITH THE PROGRAM.
Harold Camping, here we come!!!
Not predicting Armageddon, not trying to frighten people, but god will not be mocked, and this decision (and others) mocks God, so we can expect some form of judgement to follow, when is up to God, not us.
That's all I'm saying folks.
Boy oh boy oh BOY......
Always surprising to me that among all the things to be considered "evil", homosexual sex between consenting adults is close to #1. That = mocking god...but Not all the other shit we do to each other thats completely non consensual. What a joke...
John Harper speaks the truth. I don't know when, where, or how, but God WILL exact justice onto this nation! It's only a matter of time. I would say we will have no more of His blessings!
It is a pretty sad day when people fear their God because people feel the need to live the way they feel in their hearts. If you believe in such a great God, He will understand that each individual person has their own beliefs and won't damn the worl
Link, all that other stuff matters also, but homosexuality runs contrary to Gods creation plans, more specifically pro creation plans, and is a direct affront to His will for our lives.
Folk can do what they wish, as will God, His will or ours.
Agua - Glad to see you are putting the responsibility for taking care of the "gay sex" thing back into HIS hands. You say he's god, so I'm assuming he can take care of it himself. No need for humans to worry about it.
So god created something that is contrary to something else he created and is annoyed about it?
No brownies for him then...
That god guy, he just doesn't seem to know what he's doing most of the time. He created humans and then destroyed them. Funny, he still didn't get it right even on the second try. Can't seem to get the creation thing right.
Mr. Harper, WOW, simply wow, now how is America going to "suffer". Please enlighten us. Wait, let me get some gourmet cheese popcorn. I'll WAIT.... I am quite fascinated by your surmising on this. Let us hear more.....I simply CAN'T believe this!
Apparently, God is far more offended by homosexuality than the atrocities done to the Native Americans. What's wrong with this picture???
Yes, because god forgives Americas slavery and genocide, and nuking the Japanese, but gay marriage is where he draws the line. It's funny, you claim god is love yet he rewards hate, yet punish es those who love wrong. Nice god!
Oh wait, I wasn't aware that the government was forcing you to do anything, Oh that's right, because they aren't. Why should basic rights need a vote unless the people plan on deliberately discriminating? You aren't be forced to do anything.
The beauty of our constitution and the high court is that it protects citizens and guarantees equality under the law. Try reading up on your 14th amendment for an example of how this works. People need to mind their own business. live and let live
Equal rights isn't something that should ever have been put to a vote. The Constitution says all are equal, and does not allow for one law for you, and another for your neighbor.
Oh, how did I know he'd be here and that he'd be opposed to yet another basic human right? You're getting so predictable, retief2000.
No one was barred from marriage because they were homosexual. All people were barred from marrying someone of the same sex, regardless of what sex is the object of their sexual desires. Equality already existed.
What? If you have stated that people are barred from marrying those of the same gender, then people of the LBGT community weren't allowed to marry each other. What you have stated in your first statement is totally amiss by its very premise.
Hardly, they were never barred from marrying someone of the opposite sex. The same as everyone. Marriage was clearly and objectively defined. Now, less so. It is not a matter of equality but one of un-defining an institution on which society rests
A decision reached through democratic means is un-democratic...
A democratically reached decision that is supposedly backed by half the country is un-democratic...
Apparently I now need to go find a dictionary...
So, Retief, if it had been that SS marriage was the ONLY way things were done, would you as a straight person feel that you had equality having to marry someone of the same sex as that was all you were allowed?
My Irish ancestors were denied education-they started hedge schools - denied their faith-they practiced in secret.I don't give a crap what the Public world accepts-I follow my course and all else be damned.SS marriage will not endure-never has
Well then, move back to Ireland! Oh right, they legalized same sex marriage a long time ago. Guess you'll have to move to the Middle East then.
There have been decades and decades of legal battles to get where we are now at all levels of the judicial system. This fight is over and the barbarians have lost. Go polish your clubs.
Won't endure? How many str8 couples u know who manage 50+yrs? Some couples marrying in last few days are already there. There has been equality in some countries since 2001 - marriages still endure. I'm sure the same was said about inter-racial....
retief, you don't seem to understand the concept of equality in our society. Our laws are NOT for the FEW, Our laws are for the ALL. Any kind of segregation regarding sex, religion, creed, race, is illegal! It's called freedom from discrimination.
By endure, I mean as an institution.Once miscegenation laws were gone,there was marriage equality.After all, marriage was between a man and a woman, not a homosexual man and a homosexual woman.Love was NEVER in the legal definition.
Retief, people in the LBGT community have a right to marriage. Marriage is/should be between TWO consenting adults who love/respect each other regardless of sexual orientation. The idea that marriage is/should be between men/women is OUTDATED.
Marriage is a legal contract between two people. It should not matter to you or anyone else the race, creed, religion, beliefs or sexual orientation of those two people. People come in all shapes and colors, etc. Who are you to dictate which 2 peopl
Outdated, such a strong argument.It was a legal contract between a man and a woman-regardless of race,creed,national origin or sexual orientation - until SCOTUS rewrote that legal definition with no regard to the existing definition's equality
Rules are made based upon the societal consensus at the time. As humankind progresses, rules & definitions CHANGE.
How outdated of you. Haven't we concluded, on several occasions, that many wrong headed things were progress? The only reality is things change, they do not necessarily progress with each change.
I'm hearing you say that you are the one resistant to change reteif. All the legal battles are going to do is clog the judicial system and create more problems than they will ever solve snafus galore.
So you no longer believe that Americans have the right to pursue solutions to problems they see in society through the courts? Wow, freedom dried up fast.
Oh, they have the right to do so, but they can't seem to know the difference between worthwhile things and waste of time things.
Personally, I have no problem with it. But the government does need to make it a legal issue. When it comes to insurance , retirement and other matters, there has to be a legality to it. I really don't believe that they should have had all the
actually, the states banning Gay marriage is the government getting into peoples private life. Gay people getting married is their private life, not your's. Was DOMA not getting into people's private life?
And what do all the other "holy" books of the world say? And what translation are you referring to? Can you be just a bit more specific?
And translation of the Christian bible will do. Sorry I was not specific before.
Romans 1:24 probably doesn't mean the same thing to me as it does to you. I see it as giving permission to do as we choose. Is that what you think it means?
I think you are right. People are going to do as they wish. And some will pay for that decision. Living by your rules and not under God's rule will bring some consequences.
Mostly, we have to listen to conservative, backwards, fundamentalists, gripe and grouse about everything they imagine to be against "God's will". And they waste time trying to impose that will on other people.
Austin, it's truly amazing that there ARE still people LIKE THIS. WOW, this is unbelievable to say the very least.
where exactly does god say this? You do realize marriage existed llong before that god was ever dreamed up.
Read your bible please and reflect.
It is only the end of America when people don't let other people live their lives their way. What does it hurt anyone if someone of the same sex gets married. I am not gay but I sure get tired of hearing people trying to make live their way.
Unfortunately there's no cure for being crass and judgmental yet, either. :(
trying to prove the Bible is right by referencing the Bible doesn't actually prove anything! It's like if Say I'm not a liar and my proof is that I said I wasn't a liar. Using such a strategy will not succeed in making people take you seriously