Was CA taken by the US from the indigenous people of the region, or

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   bradmasterOCcalposted 6 years ago

   Was CA taken by the US from the indigenous people of the region, or
   
   didn't we just take it away from the Spanish? The Spanish took CA from the indigenous Indians, not the US. BTW, the British, and other countries took the 13 colonies from the indigenous Indians, and then we took it away from the British.
   Do you agree or disagree with that recount of history?

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   Ericdierkerposted 6 years ago

   Again Brad your phrasing takes me to language that I do not hear elsewhere. I have never heard a native North American speak of the "U.S." taking away there land. It is either "the White Man" or "Europeans" or out west here sometimes "the Catholics".
   It is also a strange notion of taking land from our Southwestern Native Americans. As ownership was not had at all so how could you take that which is not owned. New York State is 54,555 square miles, Vermont is  9,614 square miles. The Navajo Nation is 27,425 square miles. "We" gave Ethan Allen and the boys less land than the Navajos by 3x's.
   Most reservations around here have far less than 30% population of my community's population and have rights to about twice the land.
   
   It is so Apples to Oranges one has to dig much deeper. Our Catholic Mission Church being the first in the Northern Californias (now California State) was established in 1769. About 248 years. Now to my understanding the native Americans here at the time had only taken the land from other Native Americans about 50 years before that. (here is San Diego county area) And we have no idea about inter tribal peace, integration, wars and territories going back with any recognizable "nation" or "specific tribe" before that. Territory is not at all the same as European style boundaries.
   I refuse to accept a Sioux as being the same as a Piute. I do not accept a Norwegian as the same as an Italian either. Peruvians are different than Canadians and bordering Hopis are vastly different than neighboring Navajos.
   Most US people think of Mexicans as the rather short dark skinned Native Mexicans they see working here in fields or what have you. Well Mexico's population is only about 20% less percentage Europeans as the US.
   I know of no Native American Nation that can trace back specific roots in an area for a specific tribe going back anywhere near 550 years prior to 1492.
   
   So the land is an issue but a strange one. It is the genocide and cultural destruction of the Native Americans that we should be looking at, not the land mass. And now we should be looking at our destruction of the land that we agreed by numerous treaties to set aside as theirs. That and the "taking back" of lands is horrendous and wrong. And so back to the U.S. doing it. Yes indeed our government is dead wrong and horrible in how we honor our obligations to sovereign nations. That speaking with forked tongue notion is so right on. https://www.ecowatch.com/native-american-land-gra

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Erid. You don't seem to read the questions as written. And you always try to make it personal. Spain had control of what is now CA, and they took it from the indigenous people. That is kind of what the question was asking your to agree or disagree.

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   Hxprofposted 6 years ago

   Looking at it strictly from a historical who was where and when, no, we didn't.  What little I know about the Indians on the whole, is that they typically didn't claim ownership of land, and agree with what Eric said about the tribes "territory" not having European style boundaries.
   
   And again I agree with Eric, that the primary issue with how the US dealt with the Indians is in violating treaties.  If we owe them reparations for anything, and I believe we do, it's there.  We cheated them many times after promising that certain lands, European style boundaries, were theirs.
   
   Regards illegal immigration, any notion that America has no right to object to people coming across our borders, in violation of our laws, because we stole the land from them to begin with is silly, to say the least.

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Hxprof, I agree with your last paragraph. Several European countries did most of the stealing before the US existed. In fact, Spain, France, Portugal and England have at one time divided the whole world for their country.

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