Wikileaks founder and activist Julian Assange has turned to partisan politics, arguing that the movement behind Ron and Rand Paul's rise to prominence in the GOP is the 'only hope' for reform in American politics.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2 … pe-in-u-s/
I'm inclined to agree with him, even if we are only talking about civil liberties, privacy and curtailing aggressive US foreign policy. The democrats have proven themselves, at best, cowardly and ineffective when it comes to reversing the trend towards imperialism and police-statism.
What do you think?
Taken all in all, I would prefer the libertarians over the right wing on the current conservative movement.
But would you take them over the Democrats? That's the big question.
No, probably not, I don't want too much toying with the social contract that is currently part of government.
What is this 'social contract' and when did you sign it? More importantly, what's so special about it that you'd take imperialism and police-statism over it changing?
As for my take on the contract, I was all for the New Deal as the only way the American economy could hope to continue beyond the recklessness of the previous era. What do you propose we go back to? There is not one example of a successful libertarian society on Earth, it is all just theoretical. And if you want to refer to the American economy prior to 1932, as a remote example, it is not a good one.
I do not trust the private sector with the ultimate scenario of a handful of people screwing everybody else. All this talk of statetism and police states are a gross exaggeration
But I am for toning down the military and our foregn policy expenditures abroad.
This article, responding to a critique of libertarianism, does a good job of summarising the libertarian position on pre-1930s America and FDR.
http://www.libertyclassroom.com/the-que … r-part-ii/
So my personal proposition would be to have an economic environment closer to the 19th century, but of course with our current technology and culture.
"I do not trust the private sector with the ultimate scenario of a handful of people screwing everybody else."
I don't know what this means.
"All this talk of statetism and police states are a gross exaggeration "
If you're just talking about 'statism', look away now, because the US has the largest government that has ever existed in the history of man-kind. There is not a single aspect of American life that is not fettered with, taxed or regulated. Libertarians see this as a bad thing.
And the recent NSA revelations must give you pause for thought when considering police-statism, as well as expansions in the patriot act and NDAA, "See something, say something" monitors straight out of Orwell, entire cities being put on military lock-down for one person. It may be hard to appreciate when you're not personally affected by it (of course, no government wants to let people know that they are living in a police state), but in the last 15 years or so of regulation, the US has met the requirements of a police state.
"But I am for toning down the military and our foregn policy expenditures abroad."
Then the Democrats must be offering something akin to the Holy Grail for you to support them over the Libertarians, seeing as the Dems are not interested in cutting military expenditure to any great degree.
Fabulous, Innersmith, the links were excellent and I received quite an education reading the articles that you cited and the comments that followed. I even read Mr. Dionne's piece. While, I tend to agree with Dionne more, the wealth of information provided is appreciated.
"So my personal proposition would be to have an economic environment closer to the 19th century, but of course with our current technology and culture."
I don't think that we could have a 19th century mindset in the face of current technology and culture. The lack of those things certainly contributed to making the 19th century what it was. A 19th century economic model may well not be possible with 21st century tools. It could only prosper based on what we did not know. You speak of a century dominated by slavery and exploitation of Native Americans resources on a vast scale, so how do the so called free-market advocates use the labor and resources of others to benifit themselves? What is it the liberatarian ideal? People should profit based only upon their own work and effort? Do we bring back debtors prisons, elderly and orphans abandoned to want and poverty? What about child labor, I mean the so called capitalist free market had no limits to what it would do to extract a profit, that is 19th century.Yet, that was never a level playing field, but according to libertarianism, that is not a factor. But, I am afraid that if one wants a successful and cohesive society for the greatest number, it has to be.
Yes, there are encrusted areas of power that will resist and the libertarian creed makes it clear that an overbearing private sector/corporate culture is just as oppressive as an overreaching government.
There are far too many people living from their entitlements, that would not dare put these at risk. People are enriching themselves through the militarism and foreign entanglements. They would not dislodge from all of this because of an ideal. If the movement is to be successful, it is as it was suggested, start with the young who have not been involved and can take the risk. But unless we are talking about a 'Soylent Green' or 'Logan Run' scenario, it is not going to happen soon. The power and the wealth belong to the older people and they are not giving it up. Libertarianism is science-fiction, much like the ideas of 'utopia'. That is the reason there is no example of it anywhere on the planet. Short of revolution, it can never happen. If we reduce the size and scope of government power and the reach of the corporate robber barons, it would be a dream.
After reading both articles, I remain of the opinion that a successful libertarianism in practice is contrary to the way people will behave.
I just don't see libertarianism working in the way that you say it would. People living on the virtue of their own industry, that has never happened, really, not even in the 19th century. The system is never perfect, it is just that the Dems, in my opinion, are the lessor of the two evils, if political parties can be described as such.
A most interesting study, I learned a great deal more than I expected...thanks
by Don W 14 years ago
Would a free market have prevented this from happening?I'm guessing the libertarian argument would be that the failings of state regulation was a contributing factor. Those failings stemming from the fact that the regulators were in bed (figuratively and literally) with those regulated. Whereas...
by Gary Anderson 12 years ago
Hey Even, Mises said big business was not evil. To be fair, he did not live to see the TBTF banks, but I am waiting for his libertarian followers duped by this stuff to say the TBTF banks ARE evil. Say it Evan!Here is my post to your off the wall review of my ebook on Amazon. It will show that your...
by James Smith 11 years ago
The modern left/right dichotomy is essentially a scam - an identification as either one is incoherent, and to say that cherry-picking from each 'side' is somehow 'moderate' is patently absurd. Every 'moderate' I've ever known is moderately awful.In the real world, the true dichotomy is: how far are...
by Doug Robinson 13 years ago
http://georgedonnelly.com/libertarian/t … sm-america
by Tony Lawrence 12 years ago
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/2 … oesnt-WorkTruth. Why are so many of our young people so enthralled by this very dangerous idea?
by Credence2 11 years ago
So what about the future of the conservatives as currently represented by the GOP?I see three factions from among the conservatives right now, Can they coalesce around one standard bearer by 2016?1. The pragmatists, represented by people like Governor Christie of New Jersey.2. The social...
Copyright © 2024 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2024 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |