2 tornado planes collided in Italy

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  1. maxoxam41 profile image66
    maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

    Those same planes that attacked Iraq when the US invaded it. It is also said that those planes were in training. What is worrisome is their training base stores between 70 to 90 B-61 US nuclear bombs. The source infers that there's a high probability for airplanes to strike with nuclear bombs. And given that Obama just announced a couple of weeks ago that he would strike Iraq again is the info relevant or no? Keep in mind that we bombed Nagazaki and Hiroshima, that we used uranium bullets and uranium-tipped missiles in Libya... Your opinions?

    1. Writer Fox profile image43
      Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There is no credible information that those specific Italian planes ever attacked Iraq.  And U.S. nuclear bombs are not stored in Italy. What source are you citing?  Nowhere is it mentioned that anyone, other than Iran, is planning a nuclear attack.

      Here's what happened in the accident:
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … untry.html

      1. maxoxam41 profile image66
        maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

        My source is an Italian article translated in French. And, why would the media focus in divulging the truth? Since when does the media expose the truth? What I mean is why are we focusing
        I guess I should have been more specific in my statement by adding same type of planes that will prelude to an attack. Why are they training? What are they preparing for? It doesn't bother you that in the area are hidden 70, 90 nuclear bombs? Those bombs are not Italian but NATO's. It means that their function won't be defensive but offensive.

        1. Writer Fox profile image43
          Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Please post the link to that source.  I would like to read it.

          Air Forces train every day for every eventuality.  This is true in all countries which have an Air Force. Nothing unusual there.

          1. maxoxam41 profile image66
            maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            La collision des deux Tornado qui a eu lieu mardi 19 août en Italie (quatre morts, équipages des deux avions) est passée très discrètement ou a été totalement ignorée dans la presse (radios et télés) française. L’exécution du journaliste états-unien James Foley venant aussi permettre à nos médias de focaliser l’attention ailleurs ; on avait été plus discret quand ces mêmes exécutions (également mises en scène et diffusées par vidéos) étaient faites sur des soldats, conscrits, de l’Armée arabe syrienne.
            Manlio Dinucci souligne ici les raisons de la discrétion « de règle » à propos de l’accident des chasseurs italiens.

            Réseau Voltaire | Rome (Italie) | 30 août 2014 
            italiano  Español 

            + -





            JPEG - 16 ko
            La collision [mardi matin, 19 août, province d’Ascoli Piceno dans les Marches] entre deux chasseurs Tornado, qui a provoqué la mort des quatre membres d’équipage et aurait pu avoir des conséquences encore plus graves, nous met devant une réalité que la politique officielle se garde bien d’appeler par son vrai nom : guerre. Dans une uniformisation avec cette « règle », l’Armée de l’air informe que les Tornado, avions de combat acquis à partir de 1982, se trouvent aujourd’hui utilisés essentiellement pour les « opérations de riposte aux crises avec des objectifs conformes à la vocation pacifique de notre pays ».

            Ces chasseurs-bombardiers —rappelle l’Armée de l’air— furent utilisés dans le Golfe Persique en 1990-91 (c’est-à-dire dans la première guerre contre l’Irak). Puis à partir de 1993 dans les Balkans, c’est-à-dire dans la série d’opérations de l’Otan qui ont culminé dans la guerre contre la Yougoslavie, dans laquelle les Tornado effectuèrent avec d’autres avions 1 440 missions d’attaque. Ils ont ensuite été utilisés en Afghanistan, où à partir de novembre 2009 ils ont relayés par les chasseurs AMX. Enfin, en 2011, ils ont été utilisés dans la guerre contre la Libye, où pendant plus de sept mois ils ont conduit plus de 1 900 missions d’attaque, en lançant des centaines de bombes et missiles. Au cours de ces opérations —nous dit l’Armée de l’air— « l’efficacité des Tornado a été accrue par l’acquisition de systèmes d’arme d’avant-garde ». Parmi les plus récents, deux nouveaux armements US de précision, l’Advanced Anti Radiation Guided Missile (Aargm) et la Small Diameter Bomb (Sdb), qui permettent aux chasseurs-bombardiers de supprimer les défenses aériennes ennemies et d’atteindre les objectifs terrestres. Ce n’est pas par hasard que les deux Tornado touchés volaient à très basse altitude, technique employée pour ce type d’attaque conduite en profondeur en territoire ennemi.

            Les deux chasseurs —engagés dans une mission d’entraînement propédeutique de préparation à une manœuvre de l’Otan programmée pour l’automne prochain— avaient décollé de Ghedi (Brescia), base du 6ème Stormo (Groupe d’aviation). D’après le communiqué de l’Armée de l’air. Qui ne dit pas par contre que Ghedi-Torre est, avec Aviano (province de Pordenone), le site où sont déposées 70-90 bombes nucléaires étasuniennes B-61. Ceci ressort du rapport Les armes nucléaires non-stratégiques des États-Unis en Europe : un débat fondamental pour l’Otan, présenté à l’Assemblée parlementaire de l’Otan. Les bombes nucléaires sont gardées dans des hangars spéciaux, avec des chasseurs-bombardiers étasuniens F-15 et F-16 et des Tornado italiens, prêts pour l’attaque nucléaire.

            Le déploiement des armes nucléaires états-uniennes en Europe est réglementé par des accords secrets, que les gouvernements n’ont jamais soumis à leurs parlements respectifs. L’accord qui réglemente le déploiement des armes nucléaires en Italie établit le principe de la « double clé » : c’est-à-dire qu’il prévoit qu’une partie de ces armes puisse être utilisée par l’Al’airrmée de italienne sous commandement états-unien. À cette fin —indique le rapport— des pilotes italiens sont entraînés à l’utilisation des bombes nucléaires. Ce qu’on sait officiellement c’est que les B-61 seront transformées de bombes à chute libre en bombes « intelligentes », qui pourront être larguées à grande distance de l’objectif. Les nouvelles bombes nucléaires B61-12 à guidage de précision, qui auront une puissance moyenne de 50 kilotonnes (environ quatre fois la bombe de Hiroshima), « seront intégrées avec le chasseur F-35 Joint Strike Fighter ». Les pilotes italiens —qui sont aujourd’hui entraînés à l’utilisation des B-61 avec les chasseurs Tornado— seront donc sous peu préparés à l’attaque nucléaire avec les F-35 armés de B61-12. Ce faisant l’Italie continuera à violer le Traité de non-prolifération, qui interdit aux États en possession d’armes nucléaires de les transférer à d’autres (Art. 1) et aux États non-nucléaires de les recevoir de qui que ce soit (Art. 2).

            Le désastreux accident des deux Tornado aux environs d’Ascoli Piceno devrait donc tirer la sonnette d’alarme, non seulement en regard de la sécurité des habitants sur la tête desquels les avions s’entraînent à la guerre, mais sur la guerre qui nous menace tous.

            Manlio Dinucci

            1. Writer Fox profile image43
              Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

              http://goo.gl/AIxwrO

              The planes were not carrying nuclear bombs.  And, yes, nuclear bombs are always stored near delivery systems (planes or ICBM facilities) by the countries which possess them.  It's called deterrence. Nobody, nobody but Iran, is actually planning a nuclear attack on any other country.

              1. maxoxam41 profile image66
                maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                Who did Obama say he would attack a week and a half ago? Iran or Iraq? So, let's not be confused here. How many countries did Iran attack with a nuclear weapon that it doesn't even possess?
                Deterrence against who? We are the ones fomenting color "revolutions", "Arab springs", aren't we?

                1. Writer Fox profile image43
                  Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, Obama said that and planes did attack, which freed 15,000 Kurds and Arabs from the clutches of Islamic terrorists.
                  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29001357

                  Of course, he didn't use nuclear weapons.  The point of the mission, which will continue, is to rescue people. 

                  The US is not going to nuke Iraq!

                  1. maxoxam41 profile image66
                    maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                    Which religion were those Arabs? Shiite? That is to say, originally from Iran? It is the world upside down! Are we pro or against Sunni Islam? Are we pro or against Shiite Islam? Which one are we supporting? Who said that we "liberated" Kurds and Arabs? Did we free them the same way, the Syrians who reelected Al Assad, wanted to be free? Or was it the same way that the Crimeans, fearful of our input on their land, reconnected to Russia (its former land) with a referendum that blasted a 93% yes.
                    Few hours ago, I read an article that stated that Saudi officials, aware of a plot fomented by the Muslim brotherhood (our friends) to destabilize the monarchy called upon the eradication of the Islamic Emirate. It explains why it is the debacle within the oval office. Are we pointing a finger at ISIS or not will the problem to solve. The Saudis fearing one of our "Autumn Spring" reacted quick to our surprise.

                    The US used depleted uranium weapons against Basrah and Faroudja but, we won't use bombs. Check our curriculum vitae!

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What do Uranium tipped missiles or bullets have to do with atomic bombs?  That both have a steel shell?  That both travel through air?  That a variety of nations have them?  That they are weapons of war (although the bombs have only been used twice in all history)?  That the raw materials come from the ground?

      What is the connection that so frightens you?

      1. Writer Fox profile image43
        Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        (Sometimes the elevator doesn't travel to the top floor.)

      2. maxoxam41 profile image66
        maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I thought the correlation was obvious but since you need me to hash words, uranium.
        Why don't you ask people from Faroudja and Basrah in Iraq? Why don't you check if yes or no depleted uranium contaminated the land and the future generations of Iraqis? Or are you going to deny it too?
        Only twice, but we were the only ones, weren't we?
        The connection is obvious, maybe we don't want history to repeat itself, to see Iraqis fight for their country at the image of Syria. We don't want them to succeed. Why not pulverizing them? After all, we are powerful. No other force will oppose to our hegemony.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          No, the connection between the near-raw uranium used in bullets and the highly refined and separated Uranium used in bombs is not clear.  Except that they both have the same atomic number if not atomic weight. 

          I understand that you are trying to insinuate that there is no difference between a bullet and a bomb if they both contain uranium; you might ask the survivors (what few there were) within a few miles of the  Hiroshima bomb and those a mile from the uranium bullet to verify that unsupported and ridiculous concept just to see what the answer is.

          But just in case you don't, a bullet might contain uranium because of it's density and hardness.  A bomb containing it does so because it is used to convert mass into energy.  To create a small star on earth, in other words, and the difference is a person dying and a million people dying from just the one weapon.

          1. maxoxam41 profile image66
            maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Firstly I am not insinuating but stating. As the result of a thermonuclear reaction, or the waste of enriched uranium, it contaminates and kills, it is my concern. It is obvious that you are still at the primate level of adulthood reasoning (since you insulted me to make an unfounded point) but what can one expect at your level.

 
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