Would our Founding Fathers agree with the direction our Government has been taki

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   Ken Burgessposted 11 years ago

   Would our Founding Fathers agree with the direction our Government has been taking?
   
   "The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits." ~ Thomas Jefferson
   "I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." ~ Thomas Jefferson
   “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence – it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and fearful master.”  ~ George Washington

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   Conservative Ladyposted 11 years ago

   Our Founding Fathers were doing their best to prevent our country from going in the direction we are currently headed. Big Government does no good for the citizens - it causes big paychecks for those in Government at the expense of the working men and women. It leads to redistribution of funds - which is not good for any group - the makers or the takers. I would say our Founding Fathers would not at all agree with the direction we are headed.

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   LandmarkWealthposted 11 years ago

   Not by a long shot.  The Principles layed out in the founding and governing documents were of limited gov't.  The essence of what they strived for was a society in which the gov't largely left the states to decide locally what was best for it's citizens.  This country doesn't resemble any of these principles anymore.  But it is somewhat inevitable.  As Benjamin Franklin said...
   
   "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic"

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   Lisa HWposted 11 years ago

   The following quote is from the end of the HBO mini-series on John Adams.  The words were written by Adams near the end of his life:
   
   "No,  posterity.    You will never know how much it cost us to preserve your freedom.  I hope that you will make a good use of it.  If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it."
   
   I don't think the Founding Fathers would be happy if they saw what is going on today.  I'm not sure, though, that counting the numbers of "takers" is seeing the real root of the problem any more than ignoring those "takers" is.  I won't elaborate on my own beliefs about SOME of the real roots of the problem here.  That wasn't the question.
   
   I will say, though (as someone who has the dubious distinction of having had a messed up divorce (messed up, by the way, at a court in none other than Concord, Massachusetts), and finding myself in the position of showing up at the "taker department", it didn't take me long to see that the people and policies of the "taker department" don't have a clue about what real families and decent, hard-working, Americans need.  It didn't take me long, either, to discover that the only way not to be screened out of even the disgusting amount of misguided but available help, was to agree to do things the government's way (not the way real families and real Americans do things).  And, "the government's way" (the way/policies that will be approved of by "ordinary" citizens who vote) is to a) assume that "no money" equals "no intelligence", "lack of education/training", "being irresponsible", and/or "lacking in character; and b) then screening out, and abandoning, anyone who refuses to go with the (government's) program because, after all, when one "has his hand out" he has no right to expect to be seen as an equally capable, decent, person of character as "everyone else".  (and that was sarcasm, in any case anyone didn't realize it).  And, why are "taker programs" based on such an underestimation of what people in need are capable of?    The people who live on modest wages are angry because they're so taxed, and they resent all those "takers".
   
   It sure looks to me like "all signs point to" the government (Federal and state), itself, pretty much playing a huge role at the root of a lot of problems.
   
   Mr. Adams, if, by any chance, you can see what I write, some "posterity" tries to make good use of your work.  It's just that these days a lot of "takers" call that "hate".

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   JThomp42posted 11 years ago

   Absolutely not. They would be rolling over in their graves if they knew the direction in which our Country has gone, and is going. I know I will ruffle a lot of feathers by saying this, but this Country was not founded as a secular nation. Many, many of our early Presidents were Ministers, preachers, evangelist, etc. and preached in the Capitol building that was converted into churches on Sundays. Yes, they were believers and that is why this Country prospered like no other. Because "In God we trusted". Now look at the shape we are in. How many have turned their backs on God? The writing is on the wall my friends.

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   Justsilvieposted 11 years ago

   We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
   
   They men who put this together were modern and adventures men, and to try to ascertain which direction those particular men now would move is not possible. That they would somehow think the same now as they did then would say they would not have progressed in their thinking and we would still be a nation where the only citizens where white Anglo Saxon Protestant Males. The constitution was starting point and I am sure they know like any that it would grow and shift and change as you add in new factors.

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      Ken Burgessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My reply to this is below, it was too long to fit here.

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   junksellerposted 11 years ago

   I think they would be a bit freaked out by how huge the government has become, but they were also pretty smart men who would recognize that, given the drastic changes in our modern world, they aren't really in a position to judge one way or another.
   
   What they would have a serious problem with is (1) corporations having so much control over the political process and (2) the poor education and participation of the populace regarding civic matters.
   
   I think they would say that if you are driving a carriage and let go of the reins and close your eyes, you can't really complain about where you are taken.

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      Ken Burgessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You thin corporations had an effect on this election?  Boeing, Westinghouse, Hawker Beechcraft, Husqvarna, Darden Restaurants, Rockwell Collins, Rocketdyne, Cummins, Zynga, Bristol Myers, Corning. Dow Chemical all lost and are laying off accordingly

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      LandmarkWealthposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thats the obamacare implementation.  Companies like darden restaurants just went to part time for their restaurants workers.  Now their workers still have no ins, no overtime, less pay and have to pay a fine on top of it to the govt.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I said political process, not election. Even so, they did try to buy an election result. They just did a poor job of it. At some point, a turd is a turd, no matter how much you spend to dress it up.

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      LandmarkWealthposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I guess when indivduals contribute to a candidate, they're not buying an election.  In a free country we all get to support vocally and financially who we wish.  There is nothing wrong with that.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In a free country I wouldn't be bombarded with millions of dollars of lies and misinformation on a daily basis.

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      LandmarkWealthposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Truth is a matter of perception. I just listened to 18 months of campaining about the war on women.  When all I see is a war on successfull people.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And that hyperbole so saturates our public space that it is nearly impossible to have an actual discussion. Access to healthcare/contraception is a legitimate conv. we should be able to have without calling it a war on women or calling anyone a slut.

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      LandmarkWealthposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree that it's worth a discussion.  There is no law in existence or proposed that bans access to contraception or healthcare. The debate is whether or not someone else should pay for you. But I agree we could do without the name calling.

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      Ken Burgessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is, to put it mildly, there are more ignorant and idiotic people in America than well informed ones.  Just last night I watched people interviewed say that Obama spent LESS than any President in history... its sad how misinformed some are

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       LandmarkWealthposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Agreed

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   Ken Burgessposted 11 years ago

   To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. ~ Thomas Jefferson
   
   I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ~ Thomas Jefferson
   
   The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. ~ Thomas Jefferson
   
   A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. ~ Thomas Jefferson
   
   “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”  ~ John Adams
   
   “Fear is the foundation of most governments.”  ~ John Adams
   
   “When the People once surrendered their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it.”  ~ John Adams
   
   “Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”  ~ John Adams
   
   @ Justsilvie ... in reply to your answer, you could not be more wrong.  The Founding Fathers would today be known as Conservatives, or the 'Far Right' by the extreme liberal left that infects our Nation like a disease, slowly eating away at the Nation's health and killing it like a cancer.
   
   They would want to do away with most of our Federal Government and its programs, and leave it up to the States as to how they would handle things... they would not want a heavy handed invasive Central Government like we have today.
   
   People had a right to "Live Free or Die" ... not to have the government take from those who do, and give to those who don't.  Let the people care for their own, not have government tell them how to do it, or force it to be done.  Today's America would be their nightmare

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