NO SHOES NO SHIRTS NO CONSERVATIVES!
This past week Maxine Waters asked her flock to harass our presidents Cabinet and those that support Trump. Some of the media has followed up on her discriminatory words and pushed the concept of harassing American citizens for their political views. It's amazing that this form of pure violent propaganda is being accepted by some. I am over it... Time to proclaim, the left have now gone too far! NO JEWS ALLOWED! NO BLACKS SERVED HERE! NO SHOES NO SHIRTS NO CONSERVATIVES!
The acceptance of this kind of pure hate rhetoric is not only hateful it's dangerous.
I would appreciate your opinion on the subject. No deflecting, just an opinion on the questions.
Is this kind of rhetoric acceptable to you? Where do you think this form of rhetoric lead?Could you link to a transcript or quote of her calling for people to harass the cabinet and those that support Trump. The internet is such an echo chamber, I think it's important to cite reliable sources wherever possible..Thanks.
This article from Time has a quote(1), which is taken from a public appearance(2).
(1) http://time.com/5320865/maxine-waters-c … on-policy/
(2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Fu3g1MGHYHere is a video where Maxine made the statement to harass Trumps "cabinet members I am sorry for using the word "those" that support Trump. I was referring to president Trumps cabinet. Here is a video where Representative Maxine Waters asked her audience to harass Trups cabinet. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … _side.html
I already provided a link to the same video, but thanks anyway. It's useful for people to be able to review such source material directly if they have the time or inclination to.
I think my point still stands though. It's a bit rich to hear people who support Trump complain about uncivil rhetoric, or rhetoric that encourages violence.
Personally, I think the approach Waters suggests is misguided, but it does not go nearly as far as some of the comments Trump had made during his candidacy and presidency.
I'm struggling to understand why you were not concerned about Trump's comments, which do invite violence, but you are concerned about Waters' comments, which don't.Don, You will never find me defending Trump's derogatory comments. Not sure why you assumed I would? I voted for Trump due to his progressive agenda. I well knew in advance of voting for him that he has a rather 'strong outspoken personality". It was also well documented he was a womanizer and did not have the ability to give a riveting speech.
Not sure I can think of any examples of Republican's that support Trump promoting violence in the manner many Democrats have? Yes, the president has made inflammatory statements but in regards to right-wingers, no I can't come up with an example to compare to some of the antics that Dem's have committed. I could give a long list of examples. I won't because it serves no purpose, and I am sure you are aware of anything I would list.
Now on the other hand... I would appreciate some examples of Trump supporters advocating violence or actually causing violence. I am sure you are aware that a lot of violence occurred at Trump rallies due to left protestors showing up in masks and ready to physically fight outside campaign events. There are no reports of such violence at Hillary's rallies? I would appreciate you not list president Trump's quotes. As I have confirmed I am very aware of Trump's derogatory inflaming comments, he has been very transparent. And I truly condemn any statements that he made that promoted violence. I do hope to learn of how you came to your conclusion that Trump supports as a whole have used uncivil rhetoric to promote harassment or violence."And I truly condemn any statements that he made that promoted violence."
The problem is that every word out of his mouth is "promoting violence"...in the minds of people that are existing on their own hatred of him. He could say he had eggs for breakfast and some whacko will determine that is a reason to attack chicken farmers.I agree with you 100%. But that's another subject altogether. If I were to go through president Trumps statements one by one, I think I could prove many were taken out of context, and very few would have promoted violence. I think if h found a cure for Cancer, some would condemn him for upsetting the delicate balance of nature...
You're right - nearly all of them have been taken out of context. But that's just one of the methods used to show how those comments have promoted violence...and people actually believe the claim as a result.
I may be wrong but I have not been able to come up with an incident where Trump supporters showed up in masks or actually even showed up to protest a Clinton rallies? I have found videos of scuffles with leftist protestors at Trump rallies when provoked. Actually, there are many youtubes showing Trump supporters attack and hurt badly by thugs wearing masks, and carrying sticks. They were also well-known to destroy cars. I don't think there is any evidence of violence on the right that was not strongly provoked?
I believe Waters' approach is misguided, but I watched her entire speech and she didn't advocate violence at all, not once (that's why I find it useful to review sources!)
In contrast Trump literally said "I would like to punch [that protester] in the face"(1), and on multiple occasions encouraged members of the public to be violent, and even offered to pay their legal fees!
And while you may not have defended Trump's comments at the time, you're doing it now by suggesting they were taken "out of context", when they very clearly weren't.
Even if you aren't defending Trump's comments, you have certainly overlooked them, with your continued support. That is a form of acceptance.
So if you're willing to overlook Trump's comments, which called for violence, why are you "amazed" that some people would overlook Waters' comments, which didn't? Isn't that holding other people to a higher standard than you hold yourself to?
You asked for examples of right-wing or far-right violence. It would be impractical to list them all. Do a search on right-wing violence, or far-right violence.
You'll find that right-wing extremists killed more people in 2017 than any other type of extremists in the country(2). I don't know if all those were Trump supporters. We do know Trump has a large following among neo nazis though. Hearing pond-life nazis shouting "Hail Trump" gives it away(3)(4).
(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUpphTuTKL4
(2) https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa … s-in-2017/
(3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk
(4) https://twitter.com/tomperriello/status … 1837936642Don, Please read my post more carefully. I clearly stated I have not defended Trump's derogatory statements. I have the opinion that some of his statements were taken out of context, but I am not ready to go through lengthy conversations to prove that point.
When I said I could list "antics that Dem's have committed." I was clearly talking about some of the things that were done by persons that belong to the democratic party. Actions that could clearly provoke violence. Kathy Griffen, Madonna, Johnny Depp. Robert Denaro, the list goes on and on... Could you list a Republican that made any statements that would advocate violence? Did Republicans show up at Clinton rallies and burn cars through bottles eggs, and beat down people that came to her rallies? These are the examples I am looking for. There are none... I realize this may be hard to face, but there are none...
I requested you give examples of Trump supporter or Republican that promoting or causing violence in the manner Democrats have. In regard to beating up people destroying property, burning cars... I asked you not to give examples of Trump's derogatory statements, and a video of Trump is your first example? . As I stated I could find nothing online in regards to Trump supporters showing up at Clinton rallies causing problems? Your videos offer the KKK and neo-nazis? These groups are well known to cause violence, and also well known not to adopt any specific political party. Yes, I noted that in one of the videos a neo-nazi praising president Trump. I don't think you could find many Republicans that would condone the KKK or Neo-nazis? I would also question your statement that "white supremacist have killed more people in 2017 than any other extremist? Please supply a reference on fatalities caused by neo-nazi and white supremacist. I could not locate any numbers in regards to deaths caused by either group.
I would appreciate some examples of Trump supporters or Republicans advocating violence or actually causing violence. It is very unfair to associate Republicans with the KKK or the neo-nazis. I venture you will not be able to find any incidents of conservatives or Trump supporters inciting violence.I have read your post, I just disagree with much of what you are saying. By dismissing Trumps remarks as "taken out of context" you are essentially saying his comments didn't mean what people said they mean. That is defending them.
But as I said, whether you agree with that or not, you have certainly overlooked Trump's comments with your continued support for him.
Again, if you are willing to overlook Trump's comments, why are you "amazed" that some people would overlook Waters' comments? Why is that not a double standard?
The views of those people you mentioned are not representative of the Democratic party. I'm not sure why you think they are. The party has a leadership team who communicate official policy positions. As far as I'm aware "Kathy Griffen, Madonna, Johnny Depp. Robert De Nero" are not on that team.
It's a shame you were not able to find examples of the "antics Dems have committed". Like the time Representative Michelle Bachman wanted people "armed and dangerous" on the the issue of energy tax(1).
Or the time Representative Steve King said "Let’s beat that other side to a pulp! Let’s take them out. Let’s chase them down"(2)
Or the time House Speaker John Boener said Steve Driehaus "may be a dead man" and "can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati" because "the Catholics will run him out of town."(3)
Or the time Representative Louise Slaughter received a phone call threatening to "kill the children of the members who voted yes" to healthcare reform(4).
Or the time Representative Bart Stupak had messages left saying, “You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you"(5). Want to hear them? Here they are (warning: you may find the language offensive).
Or the time Gabrielle Giffords' office in Tucson was vandalized (6).
Or the time authorities in Virginia had to investigate a cut propane line at the home of a brother of Representative Tom Perriello, after his address was listed on a Tea Party web site(7).
Or the time Representative James E. Clyburn (who is black) received an anonymous fax showing the image of a noose(8).
Or the time Maxine Waters received death threats for suggesting that people should oppose Trump's policies by personally protesting individual members of the cabinet(9).
In terms of "beating up people destroying property, burning cars" please provide evidence that most people who do those things are specifically Democrats, as that seems to be the measure you are set on using, though I'm not sure how you can determine that.
And I agree, neo nazis and the KKK are well known for causing violence. That's exactly why I used them as an example. I didn't associate them with Republicans though, they associated themselves by chanting "Hail Trump".
I don't think those groups are representative of the official Republican party, any more than the views of Madonna or Johnny Depp are representative of the Democratic party. But it says something that nazis and the KKK would associate themselves with Trump. Do you have any examples of nazis chanting "hail Obama" or "hail Clinton"?
And how do you know how many of those nazis are Republicans? Perhaps none of them are. Perhaps all of them are.
In terms of white supremacists killing more people in 2017, I provided the reference in the previous comment. That's what the numbers at the end of the sentences are for. The number corresponds to the relevant reference below (10).
(1) https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ … p_n_178156
(2) https://www.huffingtonpost.com/caroline … 16467.html
(3) http://content.time.com/time/politics/a … 08,00.html
(4) https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/ … nal-034907
(5) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bart-stupa … te-listen/
(6) https://tucson.com/news/local/crime/rep … 03286.html
(7) https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/ … hcare-bill
(8) https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cl … 09365.html
(9) https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 … aight.html
(10) https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa … s-in-2017/"By dismissing Trumps remarks as "taken out of context" you are essentially saying his comments didn't mean what people said they mean. That is defending them. "
Is it defending the comments or attacking a liar for saying things that are untrue?It's clear you are as passionate about your opinion as am I. I have found it futile to go back and forth when it's very clear we have very different opinions. I appreciate all your research. But after reading your comment, and checking out the links, it's clear we disagree.
I must add... All of your references are from well known left-leaning sites, that do not report anything positive in regards to the President. 100% negative ... I m going, to be honest, I don't have any respect for any site that shows such visible bias. Do you not find it odd that the majority of your resources only report negative stories on Trump? Never a word of his accomplishments? However, thank you for responding to my comment.I'm not interested in trying to "convert" you to my view, so to speak. I'm simply telling you that the right criticizing rhetoric from the left, is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
You, and others, seem to have forgotten all the vitriolic, violent rhetoric the Tea-Party spewed during Obama's presidency, especially over the issue of Obamacare.
At the time that rhetoric was largely dismissed by those on the right as a legitimate expression of people's anger about Obama's healthcare policy.
Strangely, people on the right today don't see Maxine Waters' comments as a legitimate expression of anger about Trump's immigration policy. Instead her comments are described as "pure violent propaganda" (your words).
That's a double standard that reinforces my view that some people apply principles selectively based on when it's politically convenient.
You mention that "destroying property, burning cars" etc. is something done more by "persons that belong to the democratic party" (I assume you mean people who likely voted Democrat). I have no problem talking about that, and I acknowledge some people with left-leaning views are willing to commit violence in the name of those views.
But to have a sensible discussion about violence and hate rhetoric in politics, you do need to talk about, and acknowledge, the number of Nazis and KKK members that likely voted Republican (multiple videos of Nazis shouting "hail Trump" is a clue as to who they voted for).
You'd also need to talk about the 20 murders committed by White supremacists and other right-wing extremists in 2017. Who do you think they likely voted for? Hillary Clinton? Jill Stein?
And you need to ask yourself how many murders were committed by left-wing extremists in the country last year? How many domestic terror attacks have been committed by people who subscribe to left-wing ideologies? Is there any comparison between burning cars and 20 deaths?
And I reject your claim of bias. Nazis did cheer Donald Trump en masse. KKK leader David Duke did endorse Trump. 20 people were killed by right-wing extremists. That's not bias, it's reality.
Calling Maxine Waters' comments "pure violent propaganda", while ignoring all the violence and hateful rhetoric coming from extremists who likely voted Republican (including literal Nazis) is a distortion of reality. That distortion may suite the narrative you want to be true, but it's still a distortion.
Unless you're willing to acknowledge and address examples of real violent rhetoric, or violence from both left and right, your complaints amount to no more than faux outrage, and yet another partisan, cheer-leading exercise.I think you are misunderstanding my point. First, my question addressed Representative Maxine Waters comment, and the media picking up on it and many pundits justifying her words.
My question - "Is this kind of rhetoric acceptable to you? Where do you think this form of rhetoric lead?"
As the thread progressed it became a discussion about far left and far right agitators. I pointed out that Trump supporters did not show up and cause trouble at Clinton rallies. Compared to the left group that did show up at Trump rallies, causing violence, and destruction of property. My point, Trump supporters were in no fashion trying cause problems at rallies. You responded posting links to Neo-nazi, and KKK meetings where some were shouting Trumps name. Yes, some of these groups members could be Republican. However, they do not in any respect reflect the beliefs of the Republican party. In fact, they have been shunned by the party. The KKK or Neo-Nazis did not show up at Trump Rallies, to fight and support Trump now did they? They did not show up at Clinton rallies now did they? Please consider where the leftist showed up. and violence took place, at Trump rallies. The evidence is clear, need I post a few of the horrendous youtubes that prove my point? Republicans in most part have handled all the name calling and violence with good common sense. It's very easy to see we take the high road.One minute you are talking about protesters at Trump rallies, the next about rioters "beating up people, destroying property, burning cars". Those are not the same thing, so which is it?
Yes, I do think it would be useful for you to provide links to examples of what you are talking about.
There's a really simple choice here:
If, in your view, rioters who vote Democrat represent the Democratic party, then by the same standard, Nazis and KKK members who vote Republican represent the Republican party.
On the other hand, if you are maintaining that Nazis and KKK members who vote Republican don't represent the Republican party, then by the same standard, rioters who vote Democrat don't represent the Democratic party.
What you're doing is trying to apply one standard to the left, and another to the right. That is, by definition, a double standard.
"You, and others, seem to have forgotten all the vitriolic, violent rhetoric the Tea-Party spewed during Obama's presidency, especially over the issue of Obamacare."
Actually 75% of Americans when polled prior to its passing did not want it, did not trust Congress to do them right, and that is why we have had waves of Republicans voted in ever since.
For many millions of Americans, the ACA has been a disaster. Insurance plans used to cover expenses, minus some reasonable copays, but after just a couple years of the ACA being in place, many insurance plans became nothing more than a rip-off that covered nothing.
The ACA helped the Insurance and Pharma companies rake in billions of dollars in ways they could have never done without the complicit support of our government.
Asking proof of the more than obvious IS but a deflection from reality , Don , what is the major problem that you cannot understand plain english , of course .........other than the political deflection that normally seems to excite you ?
I like to make my own mind up about what someone has said, rather than take someone else's word for it, because the internet is like an echo chamber, and one misquote or misinterpretation, can be repeated ad nauseum.
I have not seen a direct quote from Waters calling for harassment, so wanted a source to read/ hear it for myself. I found a source, and posted it here in case someone else wanted a direct source too.
If that bothers you in some way, then I can't really help you with that.Asking for proof is common sense and essential to forming informed opinions about things. It’s how you weed out that “fake news” you all like to complain about.
1. The suggestion that "the left have now gone too far" implies all people on the left of the political spectrum share Maxine Waters' view on this, or it's official policy. That's untrue.
A more accurate depiction of this would be that some people on the left are advocating or supporting this, but they have received criticism from both the left (including the Democratic leadership) and the right(1)(2).
2. None of Waters' comments calls for violence, but she has received death threats(3). The House GOP chairman (rightly) saw fit to criticize those threats as "intolerable"(4). I'd expect anyone critical of divisive rhetoric to be even more critical of violent rhetoric, regardless of where it comes from. Like this from a couple of years ago:
"So I got a little notice. We have wonderful security guys. It said, ‘Mr. Trump, there may be somebody with tomatoes in the audience.’ So if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell .... I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise."
(Donald Trump, 2016)(5)
Do you agree, such rhetoric is totally unacceptable and should be condemned?
3. While I don't agree with Waters' view on this, I hesitate to call it "hate" rhetoric. The transcript of her comments show she called for people to personally express their opposition specifically in reference to the current policy of separating immigrant children from their families(6). That's not the same as calling for people to be discriminated against someone because of their sex, age, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc or other protected characteristics.
4. Lots of people on "the right" in the HubPages forums criticizing Water's comments, amid concerns about politics becoming "uncivil". It's a bit rich that Trump supporters would complain about incivility. I would post a list of everything uncivil thing Trump has said or done, but it would be too long.
The fact that those people only use examples from "the left" to illustrate their points, and don't seem concerned at all when Trump is uncivil, suggests they may be paying lips service to the issue and just using it as a way of scoring some team points against "the left".
For example, in what way is this civil? (look out for the veiled threat at the end)
"Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person, has become, together with Nancy Pelosi, the Face of the Democrat Party. She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many, of the Make America Great Again movement. Be careful what you wish for Max!
Again, do you condemn rhetoric of this type?
(1) https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … rican.html
(2) https://twitter.com/nancypelosi/status/ … lang=en-gb
(3) https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/poli … index.html
(4) http://thehill.com/policy/finance/39491 … ntolerable
(5)https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ … 5c91815913
(6) https://docs.google.com/document/d/14vr … SaH58/edit"A more accurate depiction of this would be that some people on the left are advocating or supporting this, but they have received criticism from both the left (including the Democratic leadership) and the right".
Can anyone come up with this kind of unprovoked assaults that a Trump supporter perpetrated on a Democrat in public? And why CNN did not see fit to cover these harassment reports. Looks like some are doing the work hat Maxine called for. Disgusting, and CNN just did not find it necessary to report?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgX-pQlYeW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRluCJl5zU
It’s never acceptable for anyone to call for harassment or discrimination. I don’t think it needs to be a left vs right thing, it just needs to be a human thing.
“The left” has not gone too far as we are not one single entity. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to grasp. The more you generalize and give millions of people negative attributes that a majority don’t actually possess the more you contribute to the division.Aime, I agree with your short and wonderful beat down. Made me stop and think. I think you knocked the nail right on the head and did it in a way that promote thought. I agree with you, right and left need to realize it' never good to generalize a group of people and insinuate negative attributes. It certainly furthers division.
I think a fair minded (balanced) individual can conclude from watching MSM, listening to Democrat politicians, or even from reading the majority of political rants here on HubPages that we have entered a time in America's history where facts are only factual if they fit the narrative, and literal truth can get you fired or even killed if it is deemed unacceptable.
What we have is a somewhat collusional effort between the MSM, Life Long Politicians and FedGov Cronies, and a large number of institutions and universities to push their agenda, beliefs, and 'truths' onto the American people... in short, a George Orwellian propaganda brainwashing. An effort to re-write our history, remove the Constitution, discard patriotism and nationalism in all forms, so that the country can progress forward into a 'One-World' or 'New-World' order.
I wouldn't even say there are two sides to this fight, this crisis that is growing like a terminal cancer in our society (and many European nations as well)... what I would say we have instead is more and more people waking up, and finding they can no longer swallow the BS they are being fed.
Its not exactly that they may disagree with it, but its the constant, never-ending affront on any values they may have, on their religion, or their race, or their patriotism, or their work-ethic, or that they are a man, whatever, there is no escaping it... it is no longer one group that is targeted, it is all groups.
However, take note of who is publicly screaming for the White House to be blown up, or the President to be assassinated, or all supporters to be assaulted, or thrown out of a restaurant. As they are the ones screaming for violence, and rioting on the streets, in the colleges, and are on the attack, with the support of the media, and the career politicians that have been in DC 30 or 40 years, it is likely they will win, eventually.
The end game for those that dwell under the umbrella of the Democratic Party is not to change the nation, but to eradicate the nation, and all it has stood for (good or bad) so that a new age, a global age without borders, can be ushered in. When you understand the ultimate goal of these groups, you will realize no matter how much you acquiesce, no matter how much you are willing to compromise, it will never be enough.No Ken, a "fair minded (balanced) individual" would not falsely describe Waters' comments as "pure violent rhetoric" and "pure hate rhetoric" as in the opening comment.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would acknowledge that Waters' has received criticism from people on the right and left of the political spectrum, including the Democratic Party leadership.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would acknowledge the violent protests by those on the far-left, and the resurgence of Nazism and white supremacy on the far-right, and condemn them.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would acknowledge the fact that right-wing extremists were responsible for more deaths in the country last year than any other extremist group. Not as a way of scoring points, but in order to see what can be done about it.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would strongly condemn the death threats Waters' has received in response to her comments.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would not engage in special pleading to suggest that violent rhetoric from the Tea-Party was acceptable.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would not ignore the role Donald Trump has played in advocating violence. Not to score points, but to understand that having someone who advocates violence in the White House leads will inevitably lead to the norms of political discourse being eroded. That is the price of having someone like Trump int the White House.
A "fair minded (balanced) individual" would not imply they are a "fair minded (balanced) individual" then proceed to express a view that is neither fair minded nor balanced.And that right there is why the #walkaway movement is growing by tens of thousands in this country, and the 'surprise win' of Trump will turn in to a 'landslide' of support for him (and many 'conservatives') across most of America outside of CA and NY.
After four years of listening to the propaganda and rhetoric of the left, when people realize the economy hasn't collapsed its only improved, WWIII hasn't been started in fact our war efforts have downsized, salaries are on the rise, they no longer have to pay taxes for NOT being able to afford insurance, etc. etc. those without blinders on, or hate in their hearts, will be lining up to re-elect him.If Trump can:
1. Start showing respect for our allies
2. Stop cutting taxes for the rich when we have a huge deficit
3. Stop increasing national debt in violation of Republican principles
4. Stop using the White House to enrich himself
5. Stop coddling dictators
6. Stop Russian interference in our elections
7. Stop undermining the Constitution
8. Stop attacking the FBI, CIA, NSA that are protecting our country
I might vote for him myself. Then he will be acting like a Republican.I just have to ask... Do you really believe all of the things you listed about Trump? Each and every one can be defended just with simple facts. Not one is close to being factual? Not one... So very odd that you could believe any one of the things you listed?
1. Our allies have taken advantage of our stupidity for man years. Trump is pointing out the way and means of how we have been taken advantage of. Yes, it is unpleasant, but needed doing.
2. Trumps Tax reform is bringing the country back financially. We have many companies repatriating funds back to our shores. This year it is predicted we will see 3.4 trillion repatriated taxable funds.
3. It is very early in Trumps presidency to predict what kind of debt he may leave?
4. This statement is blatantly not true. he actually has donated his salary to charity for the duration of his time in office. His business ventures are being run by his sons. And any funds that his Hotel in Washington has also been donated to charity. Many of our presidents were wealthy, and their business ventures prospered while they were in office.
5. This is actually ridiculous? He has at times been overly strong in most dealings with Dictators.
6. Russia has been interfering in our elections as well as many other countries elections for a very long time. In our last election, it has been reported Obama knew that Russia was making every attempt to interfere in the election. Why didn't he warn the Trump campaign? Or better yet whatever it is you feel Trump can do about Russia interfering in elections maybe Obama should have done. Laughable
7. There has never been a president that respects our constitution and is making sure with his Supreme Court picks to make sure it remains intact.
8. The FBI, CIA, and I might add the DOJ all need to be scrutinized after the corrupt things that were perpetrated in the last election. It is very clear that some were not doing the job they were hired to do, and bringing partisan politics into their decision making.
No Trump is certainly not a typical Republican, but he is on the right track...This sounds like the mutterings of somebody on Fox and Friends.
1. Trump says our allies have taken advantage of us. Right wing media probably says this. Nobody else says this. It's an opinion. It's not a fact.
2. The country had been "coming back" for 8 years. Trump gave a huge tax windfall mostly to the rich and corporations. Corporations are using that windfall for what? Mostly to buyback their own stock. Wages are stagnant.
3. Agreed. But current practice predicts a massive increase in the debt.
4. I'm not sure this matters much, but avoiding impropriety would seem like a good goal.
5. He seems to prefer dictatorships over democracies. A little scary. I could provide quote, but you'd say he's just playing rhetorical games.
6. Why didn't Obama warn the Trump campaign? Oh, I don't know, because people in Trump's campaign were colluding with Russia or getting millions of dollars in loans and might have been tipped off? You usually don't inform those who are being investigated about the investigation.
7. Remember, corporations are people and women need to stay in the kitchen and let men grab them at will.
8. When you have elaborate business dealings with Russia and you're having secret meetings with Russia and then it's discovered that Russia meddled in our elections, it seems to me that that should be something our intelligence agencies would investigate.Your "facts" come from Fox News, which even its own commentators admit is propaganda.
Mine come from multiple, credible sources of information that follow standards for confirming their accuracy.I have stated several times I do not watch Talk Jock news... Just don't.
I did give my opinion on each point you found derogatory in regard to Trump... Your list was very one-sided and in the most part not true. We certainly have different opinions, and I find no need to argue the two. I am very secure in mine, as I assume you are with yours.
You are referring to semantics and etiquette, I'm talking about the vast majority that only care about one thing. The bottom line.
Are they better or worse off, is the economy better or worse off, etc.
As for what is transpiring in the country right now, this gentlemen gives a great example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZgDtYxTdFsPoint well taken about the bottom line.
To my points, the 40% who currently approve of Trump will not like him when the massive debt spikes interest rates, trade wars push up prices and the two together trigger a recession.These are the exact same people who were head-over-heels in love with the George W. Bush economy until massive debt and deregulation caused a recession, which Obama's administration then fixed. Now that Trump has taken over, it's like Obama's successes didn't even exist.
Now Trump is behaving exactly like Bush in many ways (raising the debt, deregulating) and apparently people expect a different result. I'm not for having it all one way or the other, but there has to be balance and when that balance is ignored, the economy and the people suffer.Ben Bernanke was widely quoted a few weeks ago as saying the massive tax cut will give a decent boost to the economy this year, a small boost next year and "Wiley E. Coyote" will arrive in 2020.
I don't know how old you are, but Wiley E. Coyote was a looney cartoon character. Bernanke (and others) are saying that debt, inflation and interest rates will get very ugly by 2020.
Well I can honestly say I have many friends that have
Walked Away... And they did not know about the Walk Away movement. They just got sick of belonging to a party that daily make fools of themselves. You see, one thing about some on the left, they don't like to be beaten down day after day with crazy ideology. Plus, they realize trump is so doing well. Let's face it, who does not want the country to do better."Walked Away" is a Fox News myth.
Since 2004, the number of people who identify as Republican has declined from 32% to 27%. The number of people who identify as Democrat has increased from 28% to 29%.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/part … ation.aspxWell that myth has spread all over YouTube, and radio.
As for polls, I believe them to be as reliable and factual as CNN itself.Rush Limbaugh is a good example of how radio spreads a myth. Sean Hannity does it on TV. "CommyBlaster" does it on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vji48Hejgzg
I find that some people reject polls only when they don't like what the polls say.
For example, Trump supporters on HP often tout the numbers from Rasmussen, the Republican polling firm, but reject any other poll that doesn't have the same sky-high numbers.
I reject polls because they are worthless, and have been proven worthless over and over again.
As to the other reply, you are correct, if the country is in a recession and people are being laid off, it would definitely impact the support people have for Trump.
So, if that happens, he loses (unless the Dems have a horrible candidate), but if the economy is doing great, he's in for 8 years. Only the delusional would argue otherwise.
Its all about jobs and the economy, all the noise from the MSM, all the rhetoric from politicians will mean nothing if the economy is chugging along.The final polling average had Clinton winning 3.2% of the popular vote. She ended up winning by 2.1%. That's well within the margin of error for polling.
Otherwise, I agree with you that Trump loses if the economy tanks and he wins if the Dems have another bad candidate.
Your numbers are no surprise. It's well been proven that there are more registered Democratic voters than there are registered Republican voters. Hence Hillary winning by popular vote... As a rule, there is about a 5 point average of more Democrats than Republicans. This has been true for many years. I Think by looking at the more up to date stats say more than comparing stats that date as far back as 2004? Many people prefer to stay on the fence and when polled just are more comfortable answering independent.
What is more interesting in regards to the chart you offered.
When Obama took office Dem's were at 36%. When Obama left office the numbers were dismal at 25%.
2009 Jan 9-11 - 36%
2017 Jan 4-8- 25%
In regards to Trump's numbers.
When he came into office his numbers were steady at 28% His numbers have been very stable with little fluctuation. Trump is certainly holding his own.
2017 Jan 4-8 28%
2018 Jun 1-13 27%
WalkAway is a new group that has been gaining a bit of steam on facebook as well as Twitter. Not sure about the group only that it is compiled of citizens that have walked away from the Democratic party. They tell their stories on the groups Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OFFICIA … ign/about/And in August 2011 it was 26%, and in January 2012 it was 38%. Trends matter more than anomalies.
You are evading my point. You are claiming that somehow there is a massive new movement to quit the Democratic Party. Actual facts from credible sources don't back up that claim.
It's more likely that "WalkAway" is yet another propaganda campaign from Sean Hannity, Donald Trump and the National Enquirer.
You believe Facebook? Really? Vladamir Putin's favorite propaganda tool?"You are evading my point. You are claiming that somehow there is a massive new movement to quit the Democratic Party. Actual facts from credible sources don't back up that claim.'.
No, I did not make any claim that Dems are fleeing the party? Other than saying many of my liberal friends are pleased with the job Trump is doing, and that they felt the Dems look foolish with their resist at all costs. We all have to follow our own path.
"And in August 2011 it was 26%, and in January 2012 it was 38%. Trends matter more than anomalies."
The link you offered in regard to the percentage of Dems versus Reps is a helpful tool and reads very well for Trump. It also showed Obama years as the Dems starting out at 36, falling to low 30's an staying somewhat stable, but by the time he left office, the numbers were dim... At 25. You quote in your comment " January 2012 it was 38%". I found the these stats on the chart for the time you stated?( 012 Jan 5-8 27 42 30 ?)
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/part … ation.aspx
Wake Away - I don't think Facebook or Twitter would fudge the posts or numbers that have joined the group. I just found it an interesting group. My entire adult life was a Dem until it swung so far left. I m a capitalist at heart and the new Ideologies the Dems are following go against my better judgement, and are detrimental to the country. Time will tell, and from here on I will vote for the person, not the party.
Update --- Going back to the subject of my post. Can anyone come up with this kind of unprovoked assaults that a Trump supporter perpetrated on a Democrat in public? And why CNN did not see fit to cover these harassment reports. Looks like some are doing the work hat Maxine called for. Disgusting, and CNN just did not find it necessary to report?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgX-pQlYeW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRluCJl5zUAgain, Maxine Waters did not call for vaiolence. Here is a transcript of her comments.
I have told you the same thing several times in this forum, and even linked to this video of her speech so you can hear her words for yourself.
So you know Waters did not advocate violence. You also know that Waters has repeatedly, explicitly stated that she does not advocate or support violence.
Yet you persist in suggesting she "called for" violent harassment even though you know she hasn't.
I hate to be blunt, but that's just lying, and I don't understand why you feel the need to degrade yourself in that way.
If you believe I'm wrong, please point out where in her comments Maxine Waters calls for people to commit violence.Did you happen to have a look at the two videos I offered you to show just what hateful rhetoric such as Waters statement
"Push back" can be incited?
And again you deflect!!! ??? Still waiting on your proof that white supremest groups killed 25 people last year? All your fluffy words just don't offer proof of anything. Now does it? Oh here is another video where " Mad Max" claims " I will take Trump out"! Not pretty, this woman clearly does support violence. There are plenty more where his one came from.
Don't appreciate being called a liar. "Degrade" is a big word, and I imagine a good friend of yours. You constantly make statements you can't back up, you give off the wall admonishments, that are for lack of a better word, crazy. How about you do a bit of research on Maxine Waters crazy violence inciting statements. There are lots of youtubes showing her brand of crazy. But before you check out Mad Max, get back to me with that white suprematist resource. You know the one where it claims they were responsible for 25 deaths last year. You are living up to a perfect example of a left-wing supporter, deflect, say anything, even without a bit of proof to back it up. Oh, and if all fails stamp your feet, and call names. Your soapbox is teetering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKzSJzqnsuUAll of your videos were produced by a team paid for by Sheldon Adelson that included professional actors.
Really, WEll here is another video where Jessie Waters is interviewing the lad's hat was attacked? And the leftist's perpetrator is identified, along with his prior rap sheet? The other gentleman that was dragged by a car, has been all over also been all over various Florida local news networks? Actually not sure these nightly news jocks would be a part of a "Sheldon Adelson mock crime? I don't post any resource I can't trust. Oh, and my other video is a clip from CNN? Why comment just to be belligerent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leTcRWUhS2U
RESIST it's good for you! ???
You said Maxine Waters "called for" incidents like the ones you keep referring to. She did not.
The most you can say is that her comments have been interpreted by others in that way.
Waters herself has explicitly said, several times, that she is calling for peaceful protest in relation to her comments:
"I believe in peaceful, very peaceful protests"(1)
"Protest is about peaceful resistance to the kind of actions that we are experiencing from this president"(3)
"I believe in peaceful protest. It is guaranteed to you in a democracy"(4)
Which aspect of the word "peaceful" is not clear to you? Do you believe "peaceful" means throwing your drink over someone or being violent towards someone? If you do, then I suggest you check the definition of the word.
And in relation to "take Trump out", Waters has explicitly said what she means by that too:
"The only harm I might be doing to the President is I want him impeached"(5)
Which aspect of the word "impeached" is not clear to you? Do you believe "impeach" and "assassinate" are the same thing? Again, if so I suggest you check the definition of the word.
But of course you know all this, because I've already referred you to Waters' clarifying comments. So your statements that she has called for violence is intentionally false.
"lie
noun
1. an intentionally false statement.
I'm sorry you don't like the fact that your statements meet the definition of "lie", but I don't have any control over that.
And this is now the third time you have asked for references to the fact that right-wing extremists killed more people in the country last year than any other extremist group, and the third time I have provided them(6)(7). The thing with source material is that you need to read it to know what it says.
Note: in case you're not sure, (6)(7) means see link number (6) and (7) in the list of references below, which I have labelled "References".
I await your inevitable accusation that the information is biased because it contains information you don't like, but do feel free to prove me wrong.
References
(1) https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/25/poli … index.html
(2) http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … onald-tru/
(3) http://thehill.com/homenews/house/39408 … r-violence
(4) http://thehill.com/homenews/house/39405 … est-is-the
(5) https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/24/poli … index.html
(6) https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa … s-in-2017/
(7) https://www.adl.org/media/10827/download
I don't see how one obnoxious member of Congress equals 60% of America.
And her stupid comment is not nearly as inflammatory as the comments that have streamed out of Trump.Once again the left send out a hateful "dog Whistle' with this cover of the New Yorker... Once again I ask the question - Is this kind of rhetoric acceptable to you? Where do you think this form of rhetoric lead? Very simple question.
It only takes one person to take up the call of the left, and try to kill the president. Only one... This kind of rhetoric is dangerous.
Cmon, Sharlee, it is just a cartoon for pete's sake. Do you just want to censor all anti-Trump political cartoons, or does your concern apply generally to all forms of political commentary and harpooning regardless of source?
This is what "free press" means, I am not willing to give it up regardless of the target or ideology.Here we go again. Where is your complaint thread about this?
This is from a video(1) tweeted by Donald Trump while he was president(2). Were you not outraged and concerned about it? If not, why is that?
And if it's OK for the president to post this video, why isn't it OK for the New Yorker to post that cartoon?
(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHvLtn2BhOk
(2) https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald … nn-n779031Still can't just answer the simple question.
Actually, I think he does answer the question. He is pointing out a double standard.
Your post basically demands a higher standard for anyone who opposes Trump and a lower one for anyone who supports him.No, he is completely deflecting assuming I had no opinion on the video he posted. Actually, I felt the same outrage when Trump tweeted the violent video. It seems very unfair that Don makes such a judgment. It seems he has a chip on his shoulder and tends to want to play "I got ya"... And still, no one wants to delve into my question. However, I ultimately got my answer, just by observing all the responses.
Don, You once again deflect, and I can see you actually don't even realize it? You seem to feel you can just assume what my feelings were about the video Trump tweeted. .Actually, I felt the same outrage when Trump tweeted that dog whistle video that ultimately could promote violence. It seems very unfair for you to make such a judgment. No need to answer my question. I got my answer reading your many frenzied responses. You may not even realize it but you constantly make comparisons to make an attempt to share your opinion. Your opinion is totally lost in playing the silly game of "I got ya. In the end, your opinion is lost. Drowned it out with your bitter sentiment --- "Well he did this". You don't stop to understand what is being said.
Actions speak louder than words. If you're equally concerned and "outraged" by violent rhetoric from the right and the left, then post examples from the right and the left.
All you've done is post examples of (what you consider to be) violent rhetoric from the left. That's peddling a false narrative.
The New Yorker cover is a case in point. It depicts a metaphor for Trump's performance this week (he's fallen flat on his face - get it?) with no violence at all. In contrast, the video tweeted by the president showing him violently attacking someone with the CNN logo on their face, is a clear depiction of violence. Still, in your mind the New Yorker cartoon deserves being posted as an example of violent rhetoric, while the Trump video is ignored by you. That's a double standard.
By focusing only on the left, and mentioning examples from the right only when prompted, you've chosen partisanship over serious discussion. That's your prerogative, but if that causes people not to take you seriously on the issue, that's on you. Rather than accusing them of being "unfair" to you, take responsibility for your choices.
If you don't like the way people have judged how you've chosen to discuss this issue, make better choices about how you discuss the issue. Stop trying to make it a partisan matter for a start. That's insulting to sensible people's intelligence. There are lots of sensible people on the HubPages forums, and you need sensible people to have a sensible discussion, so insulting their intelligence is a good example of a poor choice.
In short, don't pedal false narratives, don't apply double standards, and don't insult sensible people's intelligence. It's really that simple."Then post examples from the right and left ........"
You can keep asking for the proof that's shown every day in America all over the media and still you refuse to remove the blindfold , so why ask for "proof."to begin with ?Don,
"All you've done is post examples of (what you consider to be) violent rhetoric from the left. That's peddling a false narrative."
Actually, there have been no examples of right-wing dog whistles as of late. Now if something pops up I will post it. I try to keep up with the here the now... In regards to false narratives, that's your opinion. I have no respect for your opinion. You dribble on and on say nothing of consequence.
Oh and not sure you are the one that should be fully representing the "sensible people of Hubpages"... I will say you do a great job at representing some that lean to the left. However, I very much doubt if many cares to have you speak for them?Yes, strange that there are no political cartoons about a Democratic president in the "here and now". It's almost as if there isn't a Democratic president any more. Go figure.
But don't worry, we can still compare anti-Trump cartoons with anti-Obama cartoons. Here's an anti-Obama cartoon that appeared in the New York Post:
Let me guess. This isn't an example of violent (and racist) political rhetoric because [insert excuses here].
I'm not surprised you have to resort to derogatory comments. Your argument is so devoid of merit what else is there for you to do.
But I'm not the one who started a thread about the issue of violent and hateful rhetoric, then had to hide one of my own comments because it contained a persona attack. That was you:
https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4016193
And yet you would have us believe you're not being hypocritical and applying double standards. As I said before, actions speak louder than words.
As a minimum I try to apply my principles (such as they are) consistently and honestly across each topic of discussion, but some people can't even be bothered to do that. Instead they offer false narratives and misinformation. Then when they are challenged, all they can offer are personal insults. I'm certainly not the most sensible person on the forums, but I'm glad to say I have more sense than that.Not sure why I am responding... However, many of the examples of the lefts harassment had nothing to do with "a president"? Examples - Steve Scalise; Sarah Sanders; Rand Paul, Stephen Miller; Mitch McConnell; Kirstjen Nielsen; Mike Pence; Ivanka Trump; Lara Trump' Barron Trump. Plus need I list American citizens that have been harassed?
And you know what, I can't come up with anyone that received personal harassment due to supporting Obama. Republicans in general just don't lower themselves. In regards to resorting to derogatory comments. I was so worn down from your dribble, just had to do it... I backed up my point throughout this thread with facts that you did not acknowledge. You deflect and go climb onto a soapbox. But you just don't make any sense. Sorry, that's the way I see it.Sharlee , I once had respect in these forums for the voices of moderation that I THOUGHT some people had ; It has since become easy to group the left all together when it comes to the abject failure of those here who deny the scale of violent rhetoric between right and the left in America .
The left has manifested violent rhetoric into a daily movement in the streets causing for one , the killing of cops at a rate of one a day lately , occupying ICE offices , promoting anarchy in general all the while denying any responsibility for any of it or suggesting there is an equal amount from the right ?
Now , we are watching as alinskyism hijacks democratic platforms as centrist democrats remain silent , I am reminded of that old saying from WWII,;
So now they are calling Trump treason esque ?So well said. It is becoming very scary for those of us that see the push for socialism. We will speak up... Very loudly, as we did by putting Trump in office. Is it not odd that this kind of far left socialist ideology can be excepted by some? Much of the media put out nothing but skewed propaganda, the last administration was openly corrupt, and seemingly got away with it. Obama was nothing but an empty prop to push socialist ideas. The writing was on the wall. I for one am so pleased Trump was elected. It gives me the hope that the far left's BS will be smothered.
Treason, yes to them it is treason if one promotes common sense. Common sense is their Achilles heel...And hypocrisy is their crutch . We have to believe at this point that Obama was not the leader in that movement , but simply a convenient figurehead . That socialist agenda of which liberals totally denied for decades is the ultimate goal--- NOW openly embraced by their candidates .
While every nordic country's Socialism that Sanders and crew hold forth as examples , Are merely utter failures in societies as homogeneous as could ever be. They enjoy single source and very rich resources of oil for instance , don't have to have a military defence because we in the US provide and supplement . Can afford things like free healthcare for all . Yet are suffering absolute economic meltdowns because of ultra -high taxations.
Perhaps it's the giants of leftist academia and it's evil twin the news media that are the real culprits , Which ,as you say , .......Will Be Smothered ......."
"Many examples". How about focusing on the exact example you posted. That was a picture of Donald Trump falling flat on his face (do you get it yet?) Your commentary on that image is: "Once again the left send out a hateful 'dog Whistle'".
It's been pointed out by multiple people that the cartoon doesn't depict violence, and the cartoonist himself said the cartoon comments on Trump's performance with Putin(1).
So why are you posting a picture that doesn't depict violence, as an example of violent rhetoric?
And if you're only interested in examples of violent rhetoric that are "nothing to do with 'a president"', why are you posting (supposed) examples that are to do with a president?
Helpful fella that I am, I have posted an example of a cartoon referencing a Democratic president which actually does depict violence (and racism).
So was this cartoon an example of "the right" sending out a hateful 'dog Whistle'"? If so, why didn't you include this as an example of the issue you are so concerned about, as it's a much stronger one?
If you think it's not an example of a right-wing dog whistle, then why isn't it?
(1) https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cover … 2018-07-30"So why are you posting a picture that doesn't depict violence, as an example of violent rhetoric?" I have given my opinion on the cartoon. I see it as violent. You once again seem to feel you have the right to speak for others, and it seems you need to feel more comfortable when others agree with you? That is where we differ, I don't need a crowd behind me, I think for myself, and I respect others opinions.
It is very clear a few have left comments that do not agree with my take on the cover photo.
I posted the new York cover on my Facebook , I had to take it down due to friends arguing over its meaning. The final opinion that made me realize I needed to remove it when a friend said she felt it was Trump appearing to be crucified on a cross... She was very insulted and mad that I posted it. You see everyone seems to see something different in the cartoon. That is why I called the cartoon a Dog Whistle. Just because you don't find it violent, there are those that do...
In regards to the cartoon that depicts an ape being shot. I did not see it before you posted it. I see it as a dog whistle and feel the cartoonist hope to stir up not only violence but racism. I was just as incensed by your post as the New Yorker cover...There is a difference between expressing an opinion, and pushing a false narrative.
Your focus throughout this thread has been to try to push the false narrative that violence is exclusively, or mostly, an issue stemming from "the left". Your comments on this cartoon is another example of that.
Case in point: your comment about a cartoon that depicts violence and racism against Obama was, "I see it as a dog whistle and feel the cartoonist hope to stir up not only violence but racism" (my emphasis).
Your comment about a cartoon that you believe depicts violence against Trump: "Once again the left send out a hateful 'dog Whistle'" (my emphasis).
So when faced with a cartoon that depicts violence against Obama, you attribute it to the individual responsible - "the cartoonist". When faced with a cartoon that (supposedly) depicts violence against Trump, you attribute it to "the left".
That is pushing a false narrative.
Violence and violent rhetoric are not exclusively, or mostly, an issue stemming from "the left". Cherry-picking examples that fit your narrative, while excluding examples that do not, doesn't make that narrative true. It only highlights the falsehood of it.
And I think your hostility may stem from the fact that your narrative has been challenged and you don't like it. Perhaps examining that hostility will give you answers about why people engage in violent or hateful rhetoric. Maybe the feelings that gave rise to your personal attack on me in this thread, are the same as feelings that give rise to more violent actions in other people. I don't know.
As I suggested before, you can make better choices in how you discuss things, but that starts with taking responsibility for your current choices. Pushing the narrative that violent rhetoric etc. is mainly an issue for the left, is a poor choice.
You mentioned that you did not get an answer to your question.
I am fine with political cartooning and lampooning, and as far as Trump is concerned, the depiction that you provide is quite mild in comparison with what others are creating. The cartoon gives us a chuckle and perhaps make us think seriously about the issue that is its object. So, IT does not lead anywhere that we otherwise would not need to go.
The "rhetoric" is only dangerous to the right who has an innate fear of free expression, in a way similar to the vast number of tyrants ruling around the globe as a popular threat to their remaining in power.
The only thing killed would be the ratings of the late night comics losing one of the greatest sources of comic material in years...
IMHO, of course.
The saying goes if you can't stand the heat.....
Every President had to endure being the subject on the easel of the political cartoon artist. Mr. Trump and his supporters need to evolve thicker skins, because this is the way things work in reality.I believe Trump looks at his mindless obstruction as just exactly what it is . MINDLESS .
Do you think that it bothers him .From Trump's point of view, anyone not kissing his arse IS a source of obstruction....
Obama -------you kissed his why ? Skin Color ? Yes absolutely !
Obama was working along with my principles. He was already doing what I thought best so I did not need to have my nose knee deep into his 'crack' like you obviously are doing in regards to Trump, defending his every stupidity without shame?
Really? Your principles include a President choosing which of the laws congress enacted to enforce and which not to based on a very personal sense of right and wrong? It includes forcing people to purchase products they don't want and cannot afford? It includes forcing young people just starting out in life to subsidize older people? It includes padding private business pockets in order to provide "insurance" to the poor that they cannot afford to use?
You have strange principles. IMHO."You have strange principles. IMHO."
Yes, from the perspective of any rightwinger, I suppose that I would......
Your response is almost the du----t thing I've ever read here .
"Your response is almost the du----t thing I've ever read here ."
But not the du-----t thing ever written, that is acknowledged as this:
"Obama -------you kissed his why ? Skin Color ? Yes absolutely !"Clarification ;
Some peoples love for one candidate and hate for another is most obvious the more you read about what they say and just how they say it . I find on both sides of an aisle that racism is a , very large , very wide, two way street , Not much discussed in today's very P.C. media but very evident the more one reads into these and many other posts .Cmon, Horse, how many times do I have to explain this? Black folks vote democratic simply because we do not trust the Republican party and its recent track record. I will vote for the white democrat over the black republican any day of the week. And I will enthusiastically support Elizabeth Warren for President in 2020 and she is neither black or male.
Yes, racism, unfortunately, is a fundamental part of America in a way that I did not find in Europe, for example, at least at the time I interacted with them. I am going to have to question if we can ever get over it, you can change the laws but there are still too many people here with resistant attitudes
Damn. When I first saw that cartoon - before I read Sharelee01's comment, I thought it was a jab at Pres.Trump, as in "... so clumsy he couldn't even negotiate an escalator.
How was i to know it was supposed to infer a violent attack on Pres. Trump? Geesh, maybe a caption would have helped dense folks likme me.
GAEvening, GA, the cartoon seem to remind me of one having been steam rollered, trampled. Given the events of the past few days, it is easy to see how Mr. Trump would fit the bill. I did not find the cartoon violent at all. If you want to see some "nasty ones", do an image search on Google referencing Cartoon, Helsinki, Trump and Putin......
Yes, now that you mention it, I can see the "steamrollered" effect. Still the same thought for me - I didn't get a "kill Trump" impression as its meaning.
GA
IT's been a busy week for the far left radicals...
Federal authorities arrested an upstate New York man accused of leaving menacing voicemails on the office phones of House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, R-Jefferson, and another congressman. The police found several weapons and bomb-making supplies in this home.
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge … 6d9a1.html
Brandon Ziobrowski, 33, of Cambridge, Massachusetts, was arrested Thursday morning after posting on Twitter in July that he would give $500 to anyone who would kill an ICE agent. And asked for more to contribute to the fund.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-cour … er-n899146
Conservative activists having a meal were driven from a restaurant by Antifa group. Police had to step in to protect them...
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/06/politics … index.htmlI only have this to say. There is just a whole lot of hate that blinds a lot of people. People want to be heard, and want to be right. The ears made for listening are no longer listening. They have become narcissistically trained to listen to things they want to hear. From what I gather, the lady on the right asks a lot of questions that are left unanswered by the persons being asked, and are answered in good eloquence with what I like to term as deflection. It is very unsatisfying to present a topic and have answers that deflect from the true form of the question. Call me old fashioned but growing up I was taught that anyone who does not pontificate on the question being asked simply has no real answer, and is not willing to delve into the other side of the spectrum and strike a good learning conversation. It’s called immaturity, pompous, and rude. These people are not willing to learn or really think differently even for a moment to indulge in humane conversation, but merely want to dominate. It’s no sensible to indulge in their responses.
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago
0I love it when those from the left say "No , we have not gone too far , we're just exercising our first amendment rights "
And yes , AT THAT POINT , it is a left or right thing . To want a civil discussion from the right ," can't get the right to listen to reason ", "the right is causing all the problems " "The right is taking the country backwards ....." ? All the while it is the left that has raised their battle flag high , busing their political activism right into a civil disturbances downtown , So someone tell us all please ,Who it is that always throws the first and most bricks in virtually every civil disturbance in America ?
Whats happening today is that the traditional democrat has let their party be hijacked by the alt-left......and the alt-left news media , period . So now what happens ?
The traditional democrat doubles down on defending the very tactics of this activist alt-left and expects the right to politically "turn the other cheek "? ..........AgainWhy should anyone take your supposed concern about violent rhetoric seriously, when it only seems to apply to people on the left?
Where were your complaints about such rhetoric when Trump called for protesters to be roughed up, punched in the face etc?(1) Why didn't you complain about any of those comments?
When someone on HubPages creates a forum condemning violent rhetoric from across the political spectrum (including the president) and not just the left, their complaints may be taken seriously.
Until then these complaints come across as hypocritical and phoney.
(1) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donal … -violence/This is exactly the kind of gaslighting that occurs on sites like Fox News, Breitbart, and Alex Jones. You watch these news outlets regularly and you become the kind of hateful, vile person you see on them day in and day out.
If your skin is too dark, your skirt is too short, or your accent is too thick, you get what you deserve (that's the right-wing answer to most of "those" people).
Since 100% of political violence comes from the left, you must wonder why that is. Here are some guesses: if you're a citizen and your voting rights are restricted or you're simply prevented from voting, I imagine that makes you mad. If you're a woman, and your pu**y gets grabbed, I imagine that makes you mad. If you're a citizen and the police stop you for no reason or shoot you for no reason, that probably makes you mad. When those things happen over and over again to you, your choices are between just accepting "what you deserve" and violence.
I can see where some might choose violence.
I have to agree "some on the left have pretty well drawn a line, and find it acceptable to defend the line of resistance, and have no problem inciting violence. Then have the defense " it's for the good of all". Dem's in office can not only turn the table quickly to blame those on the right for any violence, they are quick to deflect off a subject they can't defend. In my opinion, the far left is killing the center Dem's. In the end, it has hurt their party and made them look foolish to many not only on the right but left. In my lifetime I have never witnessed this kind of division. So, makes it hard to predict the outcome. Can't I even imagine the next presidential election...
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
DonW , Because only someone locked in a storeroom for the last fifty years wouldn't know full well that ALL politically motivated violence in the USA is perpetrated by leftist inspired causes and leftist people. Fact
One would have to be a mental midget to assume that the political right is in the streets , burning cruisers , tearing down statues , occupying campus headquarters ................but I don't have to prove that out , it's more than obvious .
Next ?Ok you got me. For a minute I thought you were serious.
Then I realized no sensible person would seriously suggest that "ALL politically motivated violence in the USA is perpetrated by leftist inspired causes and leftist people".
No one would make such an obviously and demonstrably false statement and expect to be taken seriously.
So well done, very funny.
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Biblical , Is the best way to describe the hypocritical hate game from the left , They use people like this to convey a message of hate and propel their party into the future ?
And yet Trump is the hater ?
I must have missed when the left gathered together and appointed Kathy Griffin and Samantha Bee as representatives? Weird, that seems like it would be big news...
As for Waters, plenty of Democrats have condemned and disagreed with her statements. She’s still an individual with her own thoughts and mind and just because she says something doesn’t mean everyone automatically agrees with it. Do you agree with every single thing that Republican representatives have ever said?You obviously miss the volume and categorical imbalance of hate , obstruction , resistance and the leadership role of those with the microphone choke hold these pundits have over their people .But go ahead , play down that importance of this mass communication .
And then wonder why mainstream America is getting angry.
Indeed, Spanky is simply misunderstood by the left. He's actually a very honest and humble individual who would never cause any sort of political scandal, a real saint....
It is not acceptable to me. I am not a fan of President Trump. I did not like him before his election and I have not changed my opinion of his character since. I do not believe in his tactics and I do not believe in the Left's tactics either. As a conservative, I would not be getting served! I am not Republican, but I lean Republican. Discrimination against people for political views is mean a least, unconstitutional at worst. I am not going to say all discrimination is wrong. I don't believe that. I will not serve a naked person in my establishment. I will serve a Jew, Gay person, Muslim, ETC. I don't do crazy, much.
Who wouldn't want such a man as a role model for their children? "Yes Daddy, but the president doesn't have to tell the truth, so why should I? Because honey, no one expects him to. See the difference? If you inherit lots of money you can cheat, lie, and insult whoever you like. " The new American way...
If it's true he learned that in NYC your great liberal enclave of the east .
Randy,
Children learn quickly there are all kinds of people, some not as virtuous as others. I would more worry about leaving my children a country that has no opportunity. The opportunity to be self-sufficient, to work and prosper in a safe country. I would tell my child I made a choice between two candidates. One offered an agenda of change, jobs, safety, immigration reform, reform NAFTA, and more... One that I knew well due to living through all of her scandals., and early on made it apparent that she felt she did not even need to campaign. She gave the appearance that she was owed the presidency. She was haughty and insulting to those that opposed her. She was "careless" due to using an unsecured server in her home while Secretary Of State.
I guess if one has a problem explaining president Trump's personality to their children they might consider saying this - Human beings are complex. President Trump at times gets caught up in mistruths, but he also keeps promises and is doing a good job as president. Many presidents while campaigning make promises, but just don't keep them. So dear child of mine, you must learn that a human being can make mistakes, and even lie. However, can also have wonderful qualities, such as keeping their word. Human beings are complex, and one should not sit in judgment unless perfect "...Sharlee , Have you perhaps forgotten that liberals have a history of lies from Obamas and Clintons ,
And yet seek to hold Trump to a completely new set of rules for his presidency than theirs ?
And still claim they know a lie from a cardboard box?No, I have not forgotten the lies of previous presidents a well as most politicians. I was trying to just address Randy's post. Making an attempt to stay on point. I am not willing to waste to much time on a comment that will most likely not be understood due to differences in ideology.
I did point out Trump is building a reputation for keeping his promises. Which I find personally a wonderful attribute. If one were to read the list of lies that Trump has been accused of by media, they would see most are statements taken out of context and him misquoting someone else's information. Now if one were to takes a look a some of the lies of Clinton and Obama, that were purposeful lies. It's easy to see the difference in severity and intent.Randy is just one hypocrite in the party , Why ? Because he has worked for people much like Trump and enjoyed the benefit of that employment , not liking the boss is a very natural thing , is the boss efficient , successful , a true leader ? Yes. I guess liberals can only emote their way through politics , they HAVE to like the leader to follow them and recognize their accomplishments .
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
There is a fine line between the antics of "almost " calling for violence , Waters etc..... and a rhetorical Trump speech about "punching him in the face ..." So tell us all please what's acceptable rhetoric ,almost ?..... 3/4ths ?, ......7/8ths ?
Truth is , everybody here knows which party actually engages in the vast majority of violence , no questions asked , no proof needed . - ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Capital Police today arrest a man threatening to kill Rand Paul's entire family and dismember them with an axe . Does this count as a democratic minor crime ?
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Don.W , I've seen enough political BS for two lifetimes in the last two pages here ! Anyone who suggests that there is more than ten percent of responsibility of the activist and violent rhetoric coming from the right is just plain politically delusional . Seriously , you want forum readers here to believe that the KKK and Nazi's first are associated with the right , and are making one quarter of the noise that the microphones and megaphones of the left are making? Pure hogwash . What I do believe is that a couple of people here don't watch any of our daily news media or scan the net news though .
Riots , campus marches and protests , media and leftist justified and driven cop killings , boycotting of right wing businesses , racial hate speech and activism , politically inspired and directed street activism ......... Say nothing about the incredible amount of media bias AGAINST Trump .You're obviously having a mole hill or mountain vision loss issue , better make an appointment .I'm applying the same standard to the right as Sharlee01 is to the left.
In her view, left-wing rioters should be associated with the Democratic party, because they likely voted Democrat. By the same standard Nazis should be associated with the Republican party, because they likely voted Republican.
If you think that standard is unreasonable, take it up with Sharlee01.
Also, I don't think campus demonstrations etc. really compare to 20 people killed in 2017 by right-wing extremists.
Still, I can acknowledge some people on the left commit violence in the name of their political views.
Can you acknowledge that since Trump became a presidential candidate, Nazis, the KKK and white nationalists have become emboldened and more prominent on the national stage?If they have they are nowhere near the numbers of and the normalcy of active extremists from the left , Sure I'll acknowledge there's extremism on the right , BUT by scale --actually miniscule to the amount on the left ; For instance ,we can attribute every cop killed to leftism activism Don , can you say that about the right , 95 % of riots =left . , right ?
"we can attribute every cop killed to leftism activism Don"
Is that truly is the statement you intended to make? If it is, it's a very interesting claim and I'd love to see your evidence for it.
In terms of Nazis and the KKK, I don't think it matters how many people are involved. What matters is the amount of harm they cause. 20 deaths are attributed to right-wing extremists in 2017 (more than any other extremist group) yet you are fixated on campus protests and democratic politicians who make misguided remarks but don't actually call for violence.
I think you, and others complaining about Waters' comments,need to get some perspective, and get your priorities straight. What are you doing about right-wing extremism?
Meanwhile, hopefully Sharlee01 will provide links to the type of violence she has been talking about, so we can be clear about what she means when she talks about violence by people "that belong to the democrats".Don, I did not realize you wanted the videos of Trump Rallis where the left provoked violence? I have provided just a few below.
I must ask you to provide a resource to back up your claim that "white supremest were responsible for 20 deaths in 2017? Have I not been able to find any information in regard to your claim? AS I posted in earlier post-Trump supporters did not show at the few rallies Clintons had. No violence, no problems. This is just the fact. The left protesters showed up at most Trump rallies and were violence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NImsjJ … verified=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWIMt9J … verified=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6NcjaBYrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuOVDAUuyWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw4QOPnvl78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9g1uuI62m0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_UURfMIHYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be7qg1SOjZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBx41mOwVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRZhWQ71qdU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6NcjaBYrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timVG06KX8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsUHllK01d8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxoL8tHSa7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb8OwFafRkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWVua_CRfkOf course protesters show up at Trump rallies, they're protesting a mentally unstable elderly megalomaniac who fails to condemn and in some instances embraces Nazis, White Nationalists and the KKK, what else do you expect from Americans?
Do you expect Americans to just remain idle while one bozo looking madman tries to radicalize the USA, destroying our economy, the constitution and our institutions while doing so?
My ancestors fought mightily in WW2 to eradicate the fascist trump's of the world, I suppose your relatives were passive at that time?Jake that's your opinion. However, Trump won, and we that voted for him expected civility. The Dem's have shown they know little about civility or common sense. However the Dem's have helped our cause, and we did not have to put on masks or little pink hats and take to the streets. All we needed to do is give them more rope... LOL
No opinion, it's fact Sharlee01 but it's your prerogative to accept said facts: Mr. Trump has been LOSING conservative red districts in special elections across the country and with his approval rating at an abysmal 41% if you discount conservative heavy Rasmussen polls, below Jimmy Carter's 42% rating at the same time during his tenure, republicans are in serious trouble for very good reason:
No worries. Easy to miss comments.
Thanks for the links, which make it easier to understand what you are referring to. I hope it goes without saying that I condemn the actions by some of the people in those videos.
As I said though, if you believe violent protesters who vote Democrat, represent the Democratic party, then by the same standard Nazis and KKK members who vote Republican, represent the Republican party.
On the other hand, if you maintain that Nazis and KKK members who vote Republican don't represent the Republican party, then by the same standard, violent protesters who vote Democrat, don't represent the Democratic party.
Either way, you have to apply the same standard to both.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that violent protesters don't represent Democrats, and Nazis don't represent Republicans. I think it's up to the people who do represent Democrats, Republicans and independents to be united in our condemnation of violence in politics.
Maxine Waters doesn't speak of violence in her speech, and in case there is any doubt, has repeated the message that she is against violence. So although I think the approach she suggests is misguided, I don't think it's reasonable to say her comments were "pure violent propaganda" and "pure hate rhetoric". They certainly can't be seen as comparable to anything in those videos.
When someone on the right critcizes Waters' comments, but fails to criticize the death threats she has received in response, or Trump's uncivil comments about her, it sends the message that violent and uncivil rhetoric is only wrong when you can accuse the the "other side" of doing it. I think that's the wrong message.
As Aime F rightly said at the beginning, this should not be a "left vs right thing, it just needs to be a human thing".
Everyone who has the capacity to care about people should be against Nazis, the KKK, and protesters who harm others. It should be the one thing left and right can agree on.
I've provided that reference before, but here it is again(1). And here is the report the article references(2).
(1) https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa … s-in-2017/
(2) https://www.adl.org/media/10827/downloadOnce again, those videos are of professional actors paid for by Sheldon Adelson. All of them are fake.
I suggest you actually check the videos out, I don't use off the wall resources. Many of these are from CNN, Fox, Frist Edition, MSNBC ... Do you really think by not accepting these truths they just did not happen? LOL These flicks are in the various networks archives. You sound ridiculous, even thinking these horrendous violent incidents were staged. Each has been well covered by several networks as they occurred.
I'm sorry, but this is the same reasoning the right always uses - somebody is an actor paid for by George Soros.
Anne Coulter recently went so far as to claim the immigrant families separated at the border were actors.
This idea of fake news to the point of being staged is an invention of the right that has made reasonable dialogue impossible because many on the right - those who watch Fox and read Breitbart and listen to Alex Jones - are incapable of discerning facts from fiction.
So I will just continue to use the same reasoning that the Right uses. Your videos are actors and, if they're not, they're getting what they deserve. If they didn't wear such short skirts, they wouldn't be harassed.
Nazis are Republican because they vote for Republicans? Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you have any idea about Nazi Germany? I suggest you read a book called "The German Dictatorship" by Karl Dietrich Bracher. It is a fascinating book. If anything, Nazis were far more like Democrats. They wanted to control every aspect of the German life and economy. Nazis believe in free education, free health care, everyone be given a job...they were very much like Democrats. Republicans are now and always have been for a free market economy, individual responsibility and more. Wow.
Not sure where you get this false info but I guess it's expected by now from Trump fans:
Here's the truth: nazis "Hail Trump":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxkI'm applying the same standard to the right as Sharlee01 is to the left.
In her view, left-wing rioters should be associated with the Democratic party, because they likely voted Democrat. Well, by the same standard, Nazis and the KKK should be associated with the Republican party, because they likely voted Republican.
If you think that standard is unreasonable, raise it with Sharlee01.
If Nazis are more like Democrats, then show me the videos of a room full of Nazis shouting "Hail Obama", or "Hail Clinton" the way they shouted "Hail Trump"(1).
Show me an example of a KKK newspaper endorsing Obama or Clinton the way Trump was endorsed(2).
Show me an example of David Duke (former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan) saying he will "fulfill the promises" of Obama, or Clinton, like he did with Donald Trump.
(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk
(2) https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016- … ng-n676686
(3) https://twitter.com/mykalmphoto/status/ … 3157974018
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Don W , Almost that entire rift { I won't call it a rant }was false biased simply upon the scale of party rhetoric , since when does a small fringe of "nazi's" or even KKK speaking out around an election the voice OF the right , the voice OF any candidate or the voice OF a party ?
Where the rhetoric of the democratic hate factory is complete from it's inception in the classrooms , through the doors of media front entrance and back exit , right to the street sanctioned parades , protests and violence against society .
You haven't yet spoken to the scale of rhetorical difference , The "Tea Party " really ? The most non violent entity created since the the inception of the boy scouts of America , You cannot begin to seriously compare the miniscule acts attributed to causes of the right as compared to the mass activism on the left , Try as you might to equalize overall blame , from the position on the right ; It just ain't working Don .Try as you might to be the moderate and spread the blame It simply leads me to believe that the best of us all too often have turned off their tellies and are just ignoring the "real " reality . - ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
While I'm not surprised , the ignoring of the very scale or evidence is your problem Don and also a very self-identifying characteristic of belonging to the left , so be it , No one is very surprised . My evidence is a lifetime of being very observant of human nature , of being informed by an near addiction to not just the wording of all media but the thoughts behind the words , the direction and the agendas of the message , the lifelong evolution of the agenda's of both parties , of all the parties anywhere near important in US politics .
That's my evidence.
Jees' Don , turn your TV on for a day , I'll neither ask nor provide "evidence " more than that . The party of the left and by silent and passive inclusion -ALL of the left , holds all the responsibility in their {your ] hands right now in America for the vast majority of that listed below ;
+Political message
+Political platform
+Ideological rhetoric
+Demonstrable activism
+Media inclusivity
+Resulting Political Violence
The habit of plausible deniability is a party habit , it has been evident in about every thread of politics I've ever seen here . It should be remembered that, that is a battle strategy of leftism not only in America but all over the world . We read of it in the words of the Koran too , Hitler used the strategy quite effectively with his youth corp, , teach it all to the innocents all the while denying that agenda exists .
The Left , the alt-left should remember this long into the future , These political activist habits and agenda's have a very proven history , Your party and by inclusion - you, will own the responsibility for the end results of violence in America , beginning this November , in the next elections , the next administration .
Who will be the judge ? The vast , the silent and the moral majority exists in America , it remains strong and powerful in it's vigilance . That's no in any way a threat , it is simply a truth .
Evidence ; We held their noses all through Obama's disastrous leadership , and then willfully elected Trump still holding our noses knowing all about him . Now the left should perhaps follow that lead , hold their noses and let him serve.
But , they won't.It's simple. You're claiming: "we can attribute every cop killed to leftism activism". If that's true it should be very easy for you to provide evidence that proves your claim. If you can't find any, why do you think that is?
Alternatively, if you believe I have to accept your statement just because you it's based on your "lifetime of being very observant", fine, I will apply the same standard:
It' a fact that we can attribute every cop killed to right-wing activism.
I know this because of a lifetime of being very observant.
By your standard you now have to accept that as true. Do you?
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Don,
Comparing "...........by my standard .....", I'd then have to believe one of two things . You were either born yesterday and know no better in asking or you chose ,because of your bias , to attempt to equalize the blame game for all the leftist violence and the very little conservative violence . I DO know which it is .
Even supposedly intelligent leftist lie to protect their own .
So just who DO you think leftist violence and all of the cop killings represents if not the left ! You'd have to show me an example of the "equal" violence from the right and you cannot do that ,not today and not tomorrow. Almost all of the cop killings represent a motivation during Obama's very racially sensitive terms .
I love liberals , they demand evidence from the right , but rely totally upon bias innuendo and fake media for their own ideological purposes.
Proof ? Trumps as----- rhetoric amounts to a whole lot of as----- rhetoric , You cannot however compare that to the action in the streets that your party's been promoting and perpetrating for years. Well , You Can ; But no one's listening .
You don't have to answer , I know enough now of your bias.You said: "we can attribute every cop killed to leftism activism . . ."(1)
So go ahead and prove it. Share all the reliable sources that support your claim. It's such a serious issue, I'm there must be many. So what's the difficulty?
(1) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4014845He simply makes claims he cannot back up, Don. He's a waste of time...
He detests questions and would rather make false claims than back them up, as usual.
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Don , Randy, anyone would have to have been born on Jupiter and just crossed the space travel lines yesterday to NOT know cop killings were all created by activists during Obama's era , his Bolshevik professor buddies started all that with the "beer garden" and Obama's silence at the phony race protests and his race baiting administration's agenda , and then the uptic in cop killings caused by it all .
Ignore it all you want ,Obama's silence and our history proves me right .Why do you make statements you know are not true, then get defensive when someone challenges you on them?
You said "we can attribute every cop killed to leftism activism . . ."(1)
You know you can't prove that's true, because it's not.
So why bother? Do you get pleasure from saying silly things?
(1) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4014845He simply spouts horseshit with no basis in fact, Don.
Randy, it's because he's been brainwashed by Breitbart, Fox News, and Alex Jones. Look at his statements and how they're made. It's a classic case of brainwashing - just repeating ad naseum the statements he hears on propagandist, fascist, right-wing media.
How about we talk not just words, but actions. This includes a man in his 30s taking a MAGA hat from a 16 year old and throwing a drink in his face. Trump staff being harassed in public places as well as outside their home and more. The left is quickly becoming nothing less than political thungs.
"Every day brings new examples of the supposedly open-minded, inclusive, tolerant, peace-loving left threatening or attacking Trump administration officials or Trump supporters."
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit … edia-bias/
Here is a short list of incidences of violence and threats from the left.
July 10, 2018: Fox News Reporter Harassed, Threatened And Forced To Leave Supreme Court By Leftist Mob
July 9, 2018: Far-left blog Talking Points Memo mocks Stephen Miller over report of confrontation with bartender.
July 9, 2018: Trump senior aide Stephen Miller harassed on street by angry bartender.
July 9, 2018: Motorists scream curse words at Sean Spicer in his yard.
July 9, 2018: Trump senior aide Kellyanne Conway harassed in grocery store
July 9, 2018: Anti-Trump activists vandalize New York DHS office
July 8, 2018: LISTEN: Idaho GOP Rep. Receives Threatening Voicemails, Emails Because of This Facebook Post
July 8, 2018: Longtime Hillary Clinton aide publishes contact information about bookstore owner who stopped the harassment of Steve Bannon, Reines’s obvious goal is to see the bookstore owner harassed.
July 8, 2018: Far-left Daily Beast writer defends public harassment of Steve Bannon
July 7, 2018: Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) menaced outside restaurant. We know where you live!
July 7, 2018: Steve Bannon harassed at bookstore; police called
July 7, 2018: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists attack peaceful Tommy Robinson supporters in San Francisco
July 7, 2018: New York Times editorial calls for Dems to “take a page from The Godfather” to “go to the mattresses” to stop Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.
July 6, 2018: CNN analyst justifies violence against Trump supporters
July 6, 2018: Long Island Man Threatened to Kill Supporters of Republican Congressman, Trump: Police
July 6, 2018: Florida man attacked over Trump flag in yard.
July 6, 2018: Woman threatens to stab Alan Dershowitz in heart.
July 5, 2018: Founder of #WalkAway campaign refused service at camera store.
July 5, 2018: Trump supporter wearing Make America Great Again hat allegedly assaulted in burger joint (video at link).
July 3, 2018: Left-wing Catholic calls for sending Trump supporters to the guillotine
July 3, 2018: Nebraska GOP office vandalized.
July 3, 2018: EPA head Scott Pruitt harassed at restaurant.
July 2, 2018: MAGA hat wearer harassed at seafood restaurant
July 2, 2018: Mother of cancer survivor harassed online for thanking Eric Trump for $16 million in St. Jude support
July 2, 2018: Cher accuses ICE of “Gestapo tactics.”
July 2, 2018: Man accused of threatening to kill Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and his family.
July 1, 2018: Washington Post reporter publicly calls on mobs to give Trump officials a “life sentence” of harassment.
July 1, 2018: Man wearing MAGA hat refused service in restaurant.
July 1, 2018: AntiFa terrorists attack Patriot Prayer rally in Portland.
June 29, 2018: Media falsely blame Trump for murder of five journalists in Maryland.
June 28, 2018: Journalist lies about Maryland mass-shooter being a Trump supporter.
June 29, 2018: Hollywood actor calls on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) to be harassed at “every meal.”
June 29, 2018: California man accused of threatening to kill FCC Chairman Ajit Pai’s children.
June 28, 2018: Reuters editor says Trump has blood on his hands for murder of five journalists in Maryland. He still has a job.
June 28, 2018: Singer John Legend praises and agrees with Rep. Maxine Waters for calling on mobs to publicly harass Trump officials out of public spaces like restaurants.
June 28, 2018: Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) calls on “angry” Latinos to oust Trump.
June 27, 2018: Media defend and champion Virginia restaurant owner who kicked White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders and her family out, and then reportedly harassed them as they ate at a nearby restaurant.
June 26, 2018: Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao harassed at home by protesters.
June 26, 2018: Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) blames President Trump for her intern yelling “Fuck you!” at him through the halls of the U.S. Capitol. The intern was not fired.
June 26, 2018: Comedienne Kathy Griffin attacks the Trump administration as “pro-Nazi.” Obviously, once you describe someone as a Nazi, you are calling for violence against them.
June 26, 2018: Chicago bar refuses to serve Trump supporters.
June 26, 2018: Singer John Legend calls on Trump officials to be harassed until our immigration policies are weakened.
June 26, 2018: Late night comedians celebrate the harassment of Sarah Sanders and her family.
June 25, 2018: Burned animal carcass left on Trump staffer’s porch.
June 25, 2018: After refusing to serve Sarah Sanders and the family, we learn a restaurant owner then organized a mob to harass Sanders’ family at a nearby restaurant.
June 25, 2018: Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) calls on mobs to confront Trump officials over immigration policies.
June 25, 2018: CNN contributor attacks those on the right calling for civility.
June 25, 2018: CNN’s Jake Tapper dismisses harassment of Sarah Sanders as a political ploy on Sander’s part.
June 24, 2018: Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) publicly calls on mobs to “turn on” Trump officials, to “harass” them, ensure they “they won’t be able to go to a restaurant, they won’t be able to stop at a gas station, they’re not going to be able to shop at a department store.”
June 23, 2018: Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi harassed, menaced, and reportedly spit at by left-wing protesters at movie theater.
June 22, 2018: Sarah Sanders and her family booted out of restaurant by left-wing owner.
June 22, 2016: Kirstjen Nielsen harassed by protesters outside her private home.
June 22, 2018: Rep. Jackie Sperier (D-CA), compares border enforcement to Auschwitz.
June 22, 2018: Left-wing activists vandalize billboard.
June 22, 2018: On Morning Joe, Donny Deutsch smears Trump and his supporters as “Nazis.”
June 21, 2018: Democrat state legislator in Pennsylvania greets Vice President Mike Pence with a “middle finger salute.”
June 21, 2018: White House Senior Adviser Stephen Miller heckled and harassed at restaurant.
June 21, 2018: Actor Adam Scott compares Tucker Carlson to a Nazi.
June 20, 2018: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists publish list of ICE agents for harassment purposes.
Jun 20, 2018: Florida man accused of threatening to kill Rep. Brian Mast (R-FL), a U.S. combat veteran, and his children in a series of nearly 500 calls to his office.
June 20, 2018: Actor Peter Fonda calls for a mob to kidnap President Trump’s 11-year-old son and throw him in a cage with pedophiles.
June 20, 2018: Actor Peter Fonda calls for a mob to sexually humiliate and abuse Sarah Sanders and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen.
June 20, 2018: Nancy Sinatra praises Peter Fonda for his tweets.
June 20, 2018: Documentary filmmaker Josh Fox praises Peter Fonda for his tweets.
June 20, 2018: Arnold Schwarzenegger calls for politicians in favor of border security to be put in cages.
June 19, 2018: Kirstjen Nielsen harassed out of restaurant.
June 19, 2018: Democrat interns screams “Fuck you!” at Trump through the halls of the U.S. Capitol. She was not fired.
June 19, 2018: New Yorker fact checker publicly (and falsely) accuses a disabled war veteran who works for ICE of being a Nazi.
June 16, 2018: Jewish Trump Supporter Attacked Outside Kathy Griffin Show In San Francisco
June 15, 2018: Man has MAGA flag stolen at rally.
June 15, 2018: CNN analyst heckles and screams at Sarah Sanders.
June 14, 2018: Nancy Pelosi wonders why there ‘aren’t uprisings’ across nation: ‘Maybe there will be’
May 30, 2018: Anti-Trump Band NOFX Tells Vegas Audience ‘At Least It Was Country Fans’ Killed in Oct. Shooting
May 24, 2018: Anti-Trump forces threaten lawmakers’ lives in name of #Resistance
May 23, 2018: Tomi Lahren has water thrown at her at Minnesota restaurant
May 22, 2018: Trump supporter suspended from school over border wall t-shirt.
May 21, 2018: 14 threats reported against EPA chief Scott Pruitt.
May 16, 2018: CNN’s Chris Cillizza puts Trump in crosshairs.
May 14, 2018: Black man in MAGA hat harassed, threatened, called “nigger” at Cheesecake Factory.
May 12, 2018: MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace asks “How do you resist the temptation to run up and wring [Sarah Sanders’] neck?”
April 23, 2018: Trump supporter shouted out of bar in New York.
April 8, 2018: David Crosby celebrates fatal Trump Tower fire: ‘oh boy … burn baby burn’
April 7, 2018: Mental Health Expert who hates POTUS cheers Fire at Trump Tower-Jeffrey Guterman
April 4, 2018: Councilwoman accused of yelling obscenities at teen wearing Trump shirt
April 3, 2018: Woman brutally attacked in restaurant over support for Trump.
April 1, 2018: Trump golf course sign vandalized.
May 22, 2018: CNN guest on Trump: “If you’re going to shoot him, you have to shoot to kill.”
March 19, 2018: Democratic Congressman Hints at Armed Rebellion Against Trump
March 19, 2018: Trump supporters attacked for protesting anti-police coffee shop.
March 16, 2018: Capitol police arrest male democrat operative over assault of Trump official
March 15, 2018: Student with ‘Trump’ flag assaulted by mob during National School Walkout
March 4, 2018: WATCH: MSNBC Joy Reid Panel Hopes Conservatives ‘Die Off’
February 27, 2018: Trump supporter threatened with knife.
February 23, 2018: Spanish teachers have students hit Trump piñata in Laguna Hills
February 22, 2018: Guardian, HuffPost Contributor Karen Geier: ‘Hopefully’ Kim Jong Un ‘Can Drop a Bomb on CPAC’
February 21, 2018: CNN publicly smears elderly Trump supporter as Russian plant, death threats follow
February 8, 2018: Northeastern University wishes death on Trump during lecture
February 8, 2018: Journalist calls for profs to drown conservative students
February 7, 2018: Democrat attested for sending white powder to Donald Trump Jr.
February 2, 2018: CNN Writer Thanks God for Fatal GOP Train Wreck
January 31, 2018: Party thrown to hurl stuff at television image of Trump.
January 29, 2018: Saginaw, MI businessman’s Trump sign vandalized.
January 22, 2018: AntiFa calls for “riot porn” against Trump supporter Tom, Brady
December 20, 2017: AntiFa terrorists assault Trump supporter outside bookstore
December 18, 2017: Eminem song ‘Framed’ plots assassination of Ivanka Trump
December 9, 2017: Students wearing MAGA hats booted from ‘safe space’ coffee shop
December 3, 2017: Trump supporter’ home and vehicle vandalized for second time.
November 27, 2017: Singer Morrissey: I would kill Trump ‘for the safety of humanity’
November 22, 2017: Trump-hater snatches, steals student’s MAGA hat.
November 22, 2017: Man mistaken for Trump supporter attacked
November 20, 2017: University of IL instructor assault Trump supporters
November 13, 2017: Trump supporter assaulted for wearing MAGA hat.
October 26, 2017: SF Gate columnist says death threats against EPA chief Scott Pruitt make sense
October 24, 2017: MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace: Trump Administration Does ‘Not Appear to Be Human Beings’
October 19, 2017: Left-wing thugs arrested for disrupting College Republican meeting, shouting “fascists,” “racists” and “white supremacists”
September 28, 2017: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos heckled as “white supremacist” during speech.
September 26, 2017: Professor Doubles Down on Tweet Saying ‘Trump Must Hang’
September 17, 2017: Trump supporter physically assault in Roosevelt High School gym.
September 15, 2017: CNN host “jokes” about killing Trump with hemlock in his food.
September 10, 2017: Portland police arrest seven in latest antifa violence aimed at Patriot Prayer
August 28, 2017: Car with Trump bumper sticker vandalized in San Francisco.
August 28, 2017: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists attack peaceful Trump supporters at Berkeley.
August 28, 2017: GOP headquarters in Fayetteville, KY vandalized. “Die Nazi Scum” spray painted on windows.
August 24, 2017: PA AntiFa Cell Calls for Violence Against Police, All-out Revolutio
August 24, 2017: Black Trump supporter spit at for wearing MAGA hat.
August 23, 2017: Black Trump supporter sucker punched in Laguna Beach.
August 23, 2017: Black Trump supporter punched multiple times while leaving Trump’s Arizona rally
August 19, 2017: WATCH: Older Woman Holding American Flag Hit, Dragged in Boston
August 18. 2017: Top Missouri Democrat calls for Trump to be “assassinated.”
August 17, 2017: ‘Nazis’ spray painted on New Hampshire GOP headquarters
August 16, 2017: Anti-Donald Trump campaigner ‘shoots Republican neighbour twice in the head’
August 14, 2017: After Branding Trump a Fascist, Never Trumper Calls for Lynching of Fascists
August 14, 2017: Conservative student attacked for “YAF” hat at vigil for Charlottesville victims.
July 31, 2017: Women’s studies professor wants Trump shot
July 19, 2017: Rosie O’Donnell sparks outrage with Trump-killing game
July 7, 2017: Student threatened for supporting Trump.
July 7, 2017: Man attacked for wearing MAGA hat in New York bar.
July 5, 2017: CNN threatens to expose Trump supporter to online mob over parody video.
July 3, 2017: Philadelphia Trump supporter jumped by three men after rallies
June 28, 2018: Co-Chair of Women for Trump Receives Death Threats After CNN Appearance
June 22, 2017: Rep. Jason Chaffetz Death Threat: ‘Prepare for the Battle, Motherf***er’
June 22, 2017: Ohio Man Charged With Threatening GOP Congressman
June 22, 2017: WATCH – Pulitzer-Winning Novelist Michael Chabon Expresses ‘Hope’ that Trump Has ‘Massive Stroke
June 22, 2017: Actor Johnny Depp “jokes” about assassinating Trump.
June 20, 2018: Manhunt Underway For Central Pa. Man Accused Of Threatening To Kill President Trump, Other Officials
June 19, 2017: University of Georgia Socialist Group Under Police Investigation After Calling for Beheading Republican
June 17, 2017: Dem Strategist James Devine Launches Hashtag #HuntRepublicanCongressmen After Steve Scalise Shooting
June 17, 2017: Rep. Ann Wagner (R-MO) reports five death threats to Capitol Police
June 15, 2017: Powder-Filled Letters With Threatening Notes Shut Down Georgia Republican’s Neighborhood
June 15, 2017: Several shots fired at truck flying ‘Make America Great Again’ flag on I-465 in Indiana
June 14, 2017: HuffPo publishes article calling for “execution” of Trump.
June 14, 2017: Republican receives threat after shooting, warning “one down, 216 to go…”
June 14, 2017: Bernie Sanders supporter opens fire on a group of Republican congressman. Rep. Steve Scalise is shot and nearly dies.
June 12, 2017: Wire creator David Simon calls on mobs to pick up a “brick” if Trump fires special counsel Robert Mueller.
June 10, 2017: Trump supporter beaten with ‘Queers for Muslims’ sign in Seattle.
June 10, 2017: Left-wing terrorists with AntiFa hurl urine at woman protesting against Sharia
June 7, 2017: HuffPo: ‘Inherent Value’ and ‘Logic’ in Violence Against Trump Supporters
June 7, 2017: Veteran’s wife violently beaten for voting for Trump
June 6, 2017: “Trump” is stabbed to death in front of cheering audience in Central Park
June 3, 2017: Anti-Trump band decapitates Trump statue on stage
May 30, 2017: Kathy Griffin beheads Trump.
May 10, 2017: VA Republican Congressman and His Family Receive Death Threats
May 21, 2017: Rep. Ted Yoho (R-FL.) office vandalized, staff threatened
May 19, 2017: Man arrested for multiple acts of anti-Trump vandalism.
May 15, 2017: Tucson school district employee arrested over threats to U.S. Rep. Martha McSally
May 13, 2017: Woman attempts to drive GOP congressman off road over health-care vote, police say
May 12, 2017: GETS PHYSICAL WITH GOP CONGRESSMAN AT TOWN HALL [VIDEO]
May 10, 2017: Police investigate death threats Rep. Tom Garrett received prior to town hall
May 8, 2017: TN Woman Arrested for Trying to Run GOP Congressman’s Car Off Road
May 4, 2017: Leaked Screenshots Reveal BuzzFeed Director Wishing for Trump Assassination
April 29, 2016: WATCH: Women, Children, Elderly Trump Supporters Pepper Sprayed in CA
April 27, 2017: Oregon Parade Canceled Due to Violent Threats By ‘Anti-Fascists’ Against Republican Participants
April 23, 2017: Left-wing AntiFa arrested for assault in DC.
April 20, 2017: University of Alaska is displaying a painting of a decapitated Trump in its gallery
April 19. 2017: MSNBC ‘Counter-Terrorism Analyst’ Calls for ISIS Bombing of Trump Property
April 15, 2017: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists start riot in Berkeley.
April 15, 2017: Left-wing terrorists with AntiFa assault Trump supporter with bike lock.
April 14, 2017: Two arrested for burning Trump sign in Maryland
April 6, 2018: During Ellen appearance, Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) “jokes” about killing Trump, Pence, Sessions on elevator.
April 5, 2018: Orange Park, FL Trump supporter spends two hours in surgery after attack.
April 3, 2017: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists disrupt pro-Trump rally in Vancouver
March 27, 2017: Pro-Trump march organizer pepper-sprayed by protester
March 20, 2017: Violent kids hit Trump supporter in face with skateboard
March 19, 2017: MAGA hat wearer kicked out of bar
March 19, 2017: ‘Murder Trump ASAP’ graffiti found on freeway wall in San Diego
March 17, 2017: ‘Making History’ Star Adam Pally Says He Wants To ‘Kill Trump’
March 16, 2016: Rapper Bow Wow threatens to “pimp” first lady Melania
March 15, 2017: University of Michigan student detained after damaging Trump supporter’s flag
March 16, 2017: Pro-Trump Michael Savage assaulted.
March 14, 2017: Young Trump supporters harassed online as Nazis
March 12, 2017: Snoop Dogg “shoots” Trump in the head.
March 9, 2017: Florida man punched in face after road rage incident sparked by Trump bumper sticker
March 7, 2017: Hillary VP pick and Sen. Tim Kaine’s (D-VA) son arrested for hurling smoke bomb in the Minnesota Capitol rotund
March 7, 2017: CNN points what looks like a sniper scope at the Oval Office.
March 6, 2017: Berkeley man arrested for destroying College Republican sign
March 5, 2017: Leftist rioters crash peaceful pro-Trump rally with tasers
March 4, 2017: Left-wing rioters attack peaceful pro-Trump rally at Berkeley
March 1, 2017: Trump supporter’s car vandalized in Oregon
February 26, 2017: Trump supporter’s house egged three times in New York
February 26, 2017: Female Trump supporter assaulted in Hollywood
February 25, 2017: Ohio man assaulted by anti-Trump mob
February 27, 2017: LEAKED AUDIO REVEALS ANTI-TRUMP FORCES MANUFACTURING HOSTILE TOWN HALL
February 27, 2017: Flier in North Carolina calls on mobs to assault Trump supporters
February 22, 2017: Tires slashed at Congressman’s town hall meeting in Mariposa
February 17, 2017: Professor tweets ‘Trump must hang,’ gets paid leave:
February 16, 2017: Kansas City man with AR-15 taunts Trump supporter, rips down Trump flag
February 15, 2017: Hateful messages found on Trump supporter’s historic Denver home
February 15, 2017: Mob knocks district director for Dana Rohrbacher (R-CA) unconscious
February 14, 2017: Stephen Colbert puts White House adviser Stephen Miller’s head on a pike.
February 13, 2017: Black Trump supporter’s home vandalized with “KKK’ spray paint – hoax hate crime
February 11, 2017: University of Central Florida Club Incites Young Kids To “Kill Donald Trump”
February 10, 2017: Black Lives Matter bully threatens to smash woman’s laptop over Trump sticker.
February 10, 2017: Protesters block Education secretary Betsy DeVos from entering school.
February 9, 2017: Man arrested for attacking Trump supporter in California
February 9, 2017: AntiFa middle school teacher Yvette Felarca arrested for starting riot in Berkeley
February 8, 2017: Police investigating multiple incidents of anti-Trump graffiti in North Carolina.
February 8, 2017: CSUF instructor suspended for striking pro-Trump student
February 7, 2018: Trump supporters’ home vandalized in Oceanside CA
February 7, 2017: Girl in MAGA hat pepper sprayed
February 5, 2017: Rapper Big Sean Threatens to Kill Donald Trump in New Freestyle
February 4, 2017: School suspends victim after he is beaten for wearing MAGA
February 3, 2017: More than 12,000 tweets have called for Trump’s assassination since the inauguration
February 2, 2017: Comedienne Sarah Silverman calls on military to overthrow Trump.
February 2, 2017: Ex-Obama Official Rosa Brooks Suggests ‘Military Coup’ Against Trump
February 2, 2017: Arrests at NYU after left-wing thugs disrupt conservative speaker
February 2, 2017: Trump supporter attacked in street in Berkeley
February 1, 2017: Seahawks Quarterback Russell Wilson Hints at Trump Assassination
February 1, 2017: Left-wing terrorist group AntiFa assaults Trump supporters at Berkeley.
January 31, 2017: Portland Trump Supporter Beaten Unconscious After Being Hit by Airport Protesters
January 31, 2017: Former VP candidate, Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA), calls on Democrats to “fight in the streets” against Trump.
January 29, 2017: Times Journo Calls for Assassination of President Trump
January 26, 2017: Texas Teacher Pretends to Shoot Trump in Class
January 23, 2017: WATCH woman harass Trump supporter on flight
January 23, 2017: Protesters Throw Water at Trump Inaugural Ball Attendees
January 22, 2017: Trump supporter Scott Baio was roughed up by protesters in DC
January 21, 2017: Madonna fantasizes about blowing up the White House.
January 20, 2017: Reporter falsely accuses 10-year-old Barron Trump of killing 100 small animals
January 20, 2017: Comedian Limmy tells Donald Trump assassination joke
January 20, 2017: Anti-Trump protester lights Trump supporter’s hair on fire.
January 20, 2017: Left-wing terrorist group Antifa riots over Trump’s inauguration.
January 19, 2017: CNN fantasizes about Obama staying in power if Trump is assassinated.
January 17, 2017: German journalist: Assassination of Trump would end ‘tragedy’
January 5, 2017: Left-wing thugs kidnap, beat, and torture an 18-year-old with schizophrenia while shouting “fuck Trump” and “fuck white people.”
December 29, 2016: Charlie Sheen Wishes Death Upon Trump
December 22, 2016: Ivanka Trump harassed on JetBlue flight by college professor
December 15, 2016: Cornell College Republicans president assaulted, called ‘racist bitch’
December 14, 2016: Politico reporter accuses Trump of incest.
December 10, 2016: Orange Coast College prof calls Trump election “act of terrorism,” “we are in Civil War times”
November 30, 2016: CBS Boston Freelancer Tweets that ‘Trump Died Sleeping’ calms him.
November 19, 2016: Texas High School Students Perform Trump ‘Assassination’ Skit
November 18, 2016: Actor Michael Shannon: Time for Trump voters to die
November 16, 2016: PacketSled CEO resigns after threatening to kill Trump
November 16, 2016: Man gunned down outside bar after he joked about voting for Trump
November 16, 2016: Left-wing thugs assault 15-year-old Trump supporter.
November 14, 2016: Toronto Student Wants Trump To Be Assassinated
November 14, 2016: Avengers director Joss Whedon says Trump “CANNOT” be allowed to serve out his term in office.
November 14, 2016: Film Director Paul Schrader Calls for Violence to Protest Against Trump
November 12, 2016: 2 Men Attack Trump Supporter in Meriden, CT
November 12, 2016: Man in MAGA hat attacked by New York subway rider.
November 11, 2016: FL STUDENT CHARGED WITH BATTERY AFTER PUNCHING BOY HOLDING TRUMP SIGN
November 11, 2016: BLM Anti-Bullying Activist Arrested for Assaulting 74 Year-Old Trump Supporter
November 11, 2016: Mother emotionally abuses child for “voting” for Trump.
November 10, 2016: Telegraph’s columnist Monisha Rajesh expressed a desire that Donald Trump be assassinated in a tweet
November 10, 2016: Student Trump supporter attacked at Woodside High School
November 10, 2016: Anti-Trump Protester Calls For Death and Violence on CNN
November 10, 2016: Trump Supporter Beaten in Chicago Street, Recorded on Video
November 10, 2016: ‘People Have to Die’: Anti-Trump Protester Calls For Violence on CNN
November 10, 2016: Orange Is the New Black star Lea DeLaria threatens “to pick up a baseball bat and take out every f*cking Republican and independent I see.”
November 9, 2016: Stafford, TX student says he was attacked for supporting Trump in mock election
November 9, 2016: Marilyn Manson “kills” Trump in music video.
November 7, 2016: Trump volunteer assaulted, robbed for wearing MAGA hat
November 6, 2016: Trump Supporter’s Truck Torched Because of Bumper Sticker
November 3, 2016: LA Times reporter tweets: ‘I would rather see Donald Trump’s life end.’
October 29, 2016: Homeless woman guarding Trump’s Walk of Fame star assaulted in Hollywood.
October 28, 2016: Trump signs vandalized in Quincy, IL.
October 26, 2016: Trump’s Walk of Fame star vandalized.
October 16, 2016: Left-wing terrorists firebomb GOP headquarters in North Carolina.
October 16, 2016: 17 vehicles vandalized at Trump rally in Bangor, Maine.
October 7, 2016: Robert De Niro says he wants to “punch” Trump in the face.
October 3, 2016: Trump billboard defaced with swastikas.
September 18, 2016: Trump supporter beaten in El Cajon.
August 27, 2017: Vandals deface Trump supporter’s lawn signs.
August 20, 2016: PROTESTERS PUNCH, PUSH, SCREAM AT TRUMP FUNDRAISER ATTENDEES
August 19, 2016: Left-wing thugs attack Trump’s motorcade and his supporters.
August 18, 2016: 68-year-old Cancer Survivor Attacked at Garage Sale Over Support for Trump
August 9, 2016: Man’s Trump T-shirt sparked crowbar attack, cops say
August 6, 2016: Massachusetts woman vandalizes Trump sign, tries to run down owner.
July 31, 2016: WATCH: Clinton Supporter Lights Flag On Fire, Attacks Trump Supporter
July 1, 2016: Black Teenage Trump supporter in Atlanta receives death threats For Supporting Trump
June 18, 2016: Man attempts to assassinate Trump.
June 2, 2016: Left-wing thugs violently attack Trump supporters. One women was surrounded by a mob and pelted with raw eggs.
May 25, 2016: Brad Thor on Glenn Beck: ‘If Congress Won’t Remove’ Trump from White House, ‘What Patriot Will Step Up’
May 8, 2016: Trump Supporter Christopher Conway Attacked By the Tolerant Left
April 7, 2016: Actor Mickey Rourke challenges Donald Trump to a fight – with a baseball bat
March 21, 2016: Man’s homemade Trump billboard vandalized and destroyed in Michigan.
March 17, 2016: Violent protesters attack Trump supporters in Chicago.
March 15, 2016: Vandals deface Trump signs in Dayton Ohio,
March 14, 2016: CNN treats man who tried to tackle Trump as folk hero.
March 12, 2016: Trump supporter’s Virginia house vandalized
March 12, 2016: Man tries to tackle Trump at campaign rally.
March 9, 2016: Trump billboard removed due to repeated vandalism in West Town IL.
March 1, 2016: Former Daily Show contributor Larry Wilmore “jokes” about killing Trump.
February 24, 2016: NYT columnist Ross Douthat “jokes” about assassination attempt on Trump
January 5, 2016: Jewish Trump support’s Trump sign vandalized with Nazi images.
November 19, 2015: ‘Black Lives Matter’ Activist Calls for Donald Trump’s Assassination.You prove that it isn’t. I am sick of you referencing all these Sheldon Adleson paid for theatrical events as facts.
Again, you can't show it's not true. Facts, no matter who published them remain facts. Lots of information is shared in the media world. There have been times you could have seen the same facts on Foxnews as well as the New York Times. They presented them differently, but the facts didn't change.
Ha! Perfect. Breitbart is a right-wing, white nationalist, alt-right, garbage-spewing, hate-filled, junk site.
I still challenge you to try and disprove the facts displayed. The question is...can you do it?
"Facts" of course are not facts "no matter who published them". That's why we have propaganda undermining our elections and our democracy.
I'm not so obsessive compulsive that I would bother to track down every single item on that list to prove a point.
Some are probably true, some are not and some are taken out of context. Either way, Breitbart has a legendary reputation for lying and right-wing, inflammatory propaganda. It's not a credible source of "facts".
Regardless, the idea that everyone on the "left" is violent and everyone on the "right" is not violent is absurd.
Okay, so, you can't prove it's untrue. I'll accept that approach.
You've sourced your list from the leader in fake news. By definition, everything from there is false. So, you have to prove it's true. God, this is stupid. We're all being stupid and the stupider we behave, the worse it's all going to get because when one idiot debates another idiot, none of us get anywhere.
You only have opinion. You have no facts. Remember facts lead to truth and truth leads to reality. You say it is stupid because you've been proven wrong and can't comprehend or admit it. You have to use words like "idiot" because you can't back up anything you claim and expect people to blindly believe you just because you say something. If they don't, you only have name calling left. Should I make a claim of fake news, I can prove it. If I make any claim, I'm willing to prove it.
No, Mike. You're not getting me at all. I can spew all the facts I can find. You simply won't believe them and will call them fake news. Again, we can talk about climate change as an example. Why should I bother trying to convince you about climate change? It's basically a fact. Almost all of the science agrees. Yet, right-wingers just cry "fake news" and provide their useless links that they claim prove their "facts".
You see it on these boards constantly. I've seen Promisem and others give all kinds of facts. You don't care. Nobody cares. You say you have facts. What do you want to argue about? Do you want to claim that leftists are responsible for all violence? That's patently false. I will provide you with plenty of facts and you'll deny every one of them, so we'll get nowhere.
Getting nowhere is stupid. This board and all this dialogue is a fundamental waste of everyone's time.
The reason that you or I or anyone gets on this board and spews their "facts" is so they can feel self-righteous. Why else do you do it?Mike, when I have recently used the words "idiot" and "stupid", I am referring to myself as well - to all of us. Who has ever been convinced of anything in any of Hubpages political forums. I'm arguing that this is a destructive, pointless form of debate.
Really, Can you come up with any incidence where anyone on the left was strong-armed by a Trump supporter? Wake up to the fact many on the left are using violence as well as obnoxious harassment to threaten those on the right. The left has always used these tactics, so many follow groupthink because they lack the ability to think for themselves. Bah Bah.
Okay, sure. I have a list of over 1000 of such incidents. But tell me first, if I publish them all:
1. Will you read them?
2. How would it change your mind?
Here's your first link:
http://www.godhates.com/ (because I can't print this link, you'll need to add a four-letter derogatory term for homosexuals after the word hates. This is the homepage of the Westboro Baptist Church)Well, how about posting 5? I will read them, and I will be waiting. And please do not bother posting Trump telling people to punch someone. I want to see someone that is a Trump supporter punching or harassing someone in public. Really glib copout, yeah just 5 will do.
Do you ever consider your defending the wrong side? Did you even read Mikes list? It should be enough to shut you up on the subject. But you go on and on... I will say you are pretty much among your own here. However, it must disturb you to always be so wrong? Have you heard of the "Walk Away movement"? You might want to look into that group.Here you go:
https://americasvoice.org/trumphatemap/
The above contains more than 100 instances.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/16/us/t … lence.html
The above reports on a study that Trump rallies increased violence.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrul … .dk0weRAmR
The above contains 28 instance of violence by Trump supporters.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/10/violence … rters.html
The above contains 9 incidents of violence against women by Trump supporters.
So I'll just stop here. Is there a certain threshold for the the number of incidents I could reference where you would be convinced? I very much doubt it.Predicted responses:
A) These are examples of justified expressions of political anger, not violence.
B) This information makes Trump supporters look bad, therefore it is biased, therefore it doesn't count.
C) This wasn't on Fox, therefore it's fake news.
D) It was the victims' fault.
E) These people don't represent Republicans, unlike people who commit violence on the left who definitely do represent Democrats.
F) I know Trump literally told his supporters to commit violence (and offered to pay their legal fees) but that doesn't make him responsible for any of this. Stop mentioning it!
G) I know Maxine Waters didn't call for violence, but she is 110% responsible for every example of violent protest on the left!
H) A combination of all of the aboveExactly. None of it matters. Will all be excused away somehow. So, what's the point of this debate? Facts don't matter.
Did you read the links? They are laughable. But you can justify these incidents as violence, harassment if it suits your purpose. You are part of a dying breed, that has not looked around and realized how foolish it is to keep defending the ridiculous...
Did you actually read the links you posted? Some of the incidents happened at Trump rallies where leftist protesters showed up for trouble. Many of your given examples are shouting matches that one has no idea how these matches started. I can see you put time and effort into finding these examples. But they lack real information.
Patriotic Americans have the right to protest, especially when they are pushing back on a mentally unstable maniac racist like Mr. Trump who appeases Vladimir Putin, coddles white nationalists and who actually embeds them in our white house: This is a crime that must be obstructed and rectified legally ASAP:
I see. So if somebody shows up to protest they deserve to be brutally attacked. They deserve it. People have a right to protest peacefully.
I was making an attempt to make a point that many that protested at Trump rallies resorted to violence. Many wore masks carried sticks and brought along mace. And I certainly think Trump supporters should not be attacked for showing up to a rally by left protesters... I provided link after link from network news sites (CNN. MSNBC, and more) that certainly proved my point. I have no problem with protesting peacefully, the left just has not caught on to being peaceful.
I get it. No Trump supporter ever did anything wrong. They've never been violent. They've never punched peaceful protesters in the face. Never happened.
Like others, you've been brainwashed. That's what this is. If all you read is Breitbart and all you watch is Fox News and Alex Jones, this is exactly the way you would think because all you're ever exposed to is there "left is evil" mantra.It is you that have been brainwashed. Thank God you are in the minority. I think you would at some point realize it? I mean just the constant repetition of your favourite statement " If all you read is Breitbart and all you watch is Fox News and Alex Jones, " Do you realize I could accuse you with the same? If all you tune into is CNN and MSNBC... See how silly it sounds? Yeah
You are a perfect sheep. Deflect, call names, and when cornered use the statement " If all you read is Breitbart and all you watch is Fox News and Alex Jones, " Hopefully, you will check into the new movement Walk Away... I think they could help you. And you know what? There are far few incidents of violence committed by Trump supporters. Not sure why you have not recognized that fact?You call someone "a perfect sheep" then immediately crticize them for name calling.
You call Maxine Waters' comments "pure violent hate", then tell us not to mention that Trump said he wants to punch protesters in the face.
You suggest violent protesters are representative of the left, then tell us the KKK, neo Nazis, the westboro baptist church, are nothing to do with the right.
You say the left has not "caught on to being peaceful", but remain silent on the fact that domestic right-wing extremists killed more people in 2017 than any other extremist group (you've been given the reference 3 times so don't bother asking for it again).
That's not just hypocrisy, it's a denial of realty; a false narrative that the right are innocent bystanders in all this.
And it's telling that you won't address the issue of killings by right-wing extremists. The facts here don't support your narrative. How many people have been killed by domestic right-wing extremists vs left-wing extremists in the last 10 years, or 20 or 30?I returned your vague insult "Brainwashed". I certainly will give back as good as I receive. It is very obvious your a hypocrite.
"In her view, left-wing rioters should be associated with the Democratic party, because they likely voted Democrat. By the same standard Nazis should be associated with the Republican party, because they likely voted Republican."
I have asked you time and again did protestors from the right show up at Clinton rallies. The point I have been trying to make - let me make it very clear. During the 2016 election that leftist showed up at most of Trump Rallies, and not only harass Trump supporters, and on many occasions, violence broke out. And still today many on the left continue to feel they have the right to "push back" and or harass Trump supporters. We also have people like Maxcine Waters provoking, and supporting harassment of Trump supporters.
You have found it necessary to associate white supremacist with Trump supporter. It is very bias on your part. The Republican party has disavowed any and all of the ideology of white supremacist groups. You have no right to insinuate Trump supporters are in any respect connected to these groups. DID ANY WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS SHOW UP TO PROTEST CLINTON? No, they did not... Did far left supporters of Clinton show up at almost every one of Trump's rallies Yes they did. This to me shows that the far left groups did support Clinton...
The Republican party is not responsible for any white supremacist group. It is clear you are making an assumption due to your own bias. The proof of how the Republicans handled themselves during the election is clear. We did not protest Clinton Rallies, we did not cause violence and property damage. Can you say the same in regards to how the supporter of Hillary Clinton conducted themselves? It's time you stop associating longtime white supremacy groups with Trump supporters. It's insulting. I could accept your insults if there was proof of these groups actually showing up at political rallies on behalf of Trump, to support Trump in public. This did not occur. Yes, it has been documented at white supremacist meetings they voiced their support for Trump. However, they did not support him by organizing protests.
"And it's telling that you won't address the issue of killings by right-wing extremists. " I read the link you provide. And I find it plausible that these white supremacists groups have committed crimes of murder. Not sure how you in any respect find this reflects on Republican beliefs those that support the president? The leftist that showed up Rally after rally were supporting Hillary Clinton.Please point out where I called you brainwashed. I think you have me confused with someone else.
"You have found it necessary to associate white supremacist with Trump supporter."
All I have done is apply the same standard to the right that you have to the left.
If it's unreasonable to associate white supremacists with the Republican Party, then it's unreasonable to associate violent protesters with the Democratic Party.
Conversely, if it's reasonable to associate violent protesters with the Democratic Party, then it's reasonable to associate white supremacists with the Republican Party.
This is what applying a principle consistently and without bias looks like, and this is why it's clear you are applying a double standard. To demonstrate that further here's what it looks like if you apply you're arguments to both party's in an unbiased way:
"The Republican party has disavowed any and all of the ideology of white supremacist groups".
Yes, and the Democratic Party have condemned political violence.
But if it's OK for you to ignore Democrat condemnations of violence and continue to associate the party with violent protesters, then it's ok for me to ignore Republican disavowals of white supremacy and continue to associate the party with white supremacists.
"You have no right to insinuate Trump supporters are in any respect connected to these groups"
You have no right to insinuate the Democratic Party are in any respect connected to these groups.
But if it's OK for you to go ahead and insinuate the Democratic Party is connected with violent protesters anyway, then it's OK for me to insinuate the Republican party is connected with white supremacists.
"DID ANY WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS SHOW UP TO PROTEST CLINTON?
No, they did not... "
DID ANY WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS SHOUT "HAIL CLINTON"?
No, they did not...
But if it's OK for you to ignore the fact that Trump was hailed at white supremacist rallies, then it's OK for me to ignore the fact that violent protesters attended Trump rallies.
"The Republican party is not responsible for any white supremacist group"
The Democratic party is not responsible for any violent protester group.
But if it's OK for you to ignore that and associate the Democratic Party with violent protesters, then it's OK for me to ignore that too and associate white supremacists with the Republican Party.
Do I need to continue? I hope you get the picture.
All I have been doing across most of my comments is reflecting your own standard straight back at you. But because it was coming from someone you perceive as the opposition, you didn't recognize it as your own view, and have proceeded to criticize it, culminating in your comments above. Those comments are essentially you arguing against yourself.
And that's the point.
It shows the difference between the standard you are applying to the Republican Party and to the Democratic Party.
It shows how everything you say in defense of the Republican party on this issue, can equally be applied to the Democratic Party, if you are being consistent and unbiased.
It shows how any criticism you can make of the Democratic Party on this issue, can just as easily be made against the Republican Party.
The only way to avoid the issue of someone using your own argument against you is to be unbiased and consistent. If you are, then it doesn't matter if they apply the same standard.
But if you are inconsistent and biased in the standards you apply, that will be very obvious when someone starts throwing the same argument back at you, and you have to tell them they are being biased.
"It is very bias on your part"
Yes it is very biased. But all I have done is hold up a mirror so you can see what your argument looks like from this side. The fact you think it's biased, hopefully tells you something, because (aside from the right-wing extremist murders) I haven't said anything that I haven't taken straight from your own argument.Oh dear. I know it's awful when you're shown a reflection of yourself and don't like what you see, but that's no excuse for personal insults.
(FYI the correct spelling for the sentence you wrote is "you're" not "your")Guess I should use a spell check program... As I stated anyone can read the thread and make up their own mind on the subject. You sound actually silly.
The very last post I provided a huge list of Republicans protesting Obama and committing acts of violence.
Here's the answer to every question you've posed: the people protesting Trump were not Clinton supporters. Prove that they supported Clinton. They could have easily been McCain supporters or Ted Cruz supporters. How do you know they weren't outraged John McCain supporters?
If, as a Trump supporter, you disavow all hate groups, then that makes it really easy to say no Trump supporter ever committed an act of violence.
Here's what's weird: why does every white hate group vote Republican? Why does every racist vote Republican? Who do racists and White supremicists read Breitbart?
There's an old saying: you are the company you keep.
Here is where the left struggles with the concept of facts. If you have proof of Trump supporters behaving as badly as the left, please provide it. If not, what does that say?
I provided a bunch of links on the very last post.
But really, what's the point?
How many links would it take for you to change your mind? It doesn't really matter, does it? If I post 1 valid link or 1,000 valid links.
I just gave you a huge one. The Westboro Baptist Church. Go look at all the stuff they've done. They're all Trump supporting, right-wing crazies.
It's pointless to argue with right-wingers. Ph.D. scientists have proved that climate change is happening, humans are causing it, and the Earth is heating up as a result. But you call it "fake news" and provide your little links to alternate theories. This indicates that you don't know the difference between fake news and real news or between science and non-science, which means, logically, that you cannot conduct a rational, fact-based discussion.
Here's another link:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/07/1 … j-orig.cnn
The lack of intellectual processing here is astounding to me. Do you not comprehend that we're all victims of the media here, who give us a single story that's supposed to represent a trend. So you see some story about a Trump supporter being wronged and apply the behavior to all leftists. I see a story about one immigrant being beaten with a brick and apply it to all Trump supporters.
So if I find more links than you, does that make me right and you wrong?
The stupidity of this conversation (and I admit I'm participating) is astounding. The lack of intellectual complexity is astounding. We'll get nowhere thinking like this or debating like this.Maybe we should look at what the Obama supporter left wing crazy Louis Farrakhan has said and done. Guess what? There are crazies on both sides. Climate change? A little off topic wouldn't you say?
Not really. If you don't understand basic science, your debating skills and fact-based comprehension are severely undermined.
Say what you want, but I know when a topic is about the treatment of conservatives and you bring up climate change, you've lost the argument. I believe you bring up climate change as an issue because you can't support your opinion when it comes to the topic of the thread. This, in debating circles, is known as a "straw man" argument.
"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, where actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manYes, Mike. I hear you. Attacking a straw man never happens on this board -
Here's the thing. The reason that happens is that I don't feel like wasting my time trying to convince you of something you're never going to be convinced of anyway because no matter how many facts I throw at you, you will simply choose not to believe them. Climate change is my example of that, but it applies to most things.I bring up climate change because if we can't fundamentally agree on what constitutes a fact, we can't have a dialogue. Would you agree with that?
The Westboro Baptist Church? This group hates Trump? They actually frequently protested with a handful of people at some of his rallies, as well as the Republican National Convention. This bunch are n a class of heir own, they have no affiliation in regards to a political party. And certainly, hate Trump. One of the reasons they used when protesting Trump was his multiple marriages. Is this your example of Trump supporters harassing those on the left???
You're in a corner ... Time for you to deflect with some fluffy words. You have no real examples because there are very few. Te left have accepted violence as a way to get their point across. One more reason they are becoming a dying breed.So you think the the WBP is voting for Democrats? It's a right-wing hate group. Did you read any of the links. 91-year-old man beaten with a brick. Another woman verbally assaulted and harassed for wearing a shirt with a Puerto Rican flag.
Once again, whether I give you 1 link or one million links, nothing will change your mind or your opinion. Just like if I show you data on climate change, you'll find one snowball or one cold temperature and claim it's all fake.
Breitbart is a known right-wing, white nationalist web site.
Did you believe in Pizzagate? Bet you bought into that one. That's the kind of stuff you find on Breitbart - rumor. Tons of unsubstantiated rumors. That's not what a news site reports. That's the difference between news and propaganda.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat … g-campaign
http://time.com/4254801/donald-trump-pr … nce-video/
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03 … y-violence
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … mp-america
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/trump-s … -1.5455209
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35790460
https://www.thenation.com/article/trump … -violence/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ … ction.html
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m … story.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … ly/473658/
https://splinternews.com/racist-trump-s … 1793863686
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/p … -discredit
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/u … 0Yt-flKjcs
I could go on and on and on. I'm not even arguing that the left isn't responsible for violent incidents. I'm merely arguing that your assertion and the assertion of others that it is the left and only the left doing this, is pure garbage. It's intellectually dishonest. Whenever a party gets in power, the people who oppose that party are going to protest and some of those protests will inevitably involve violence.
It happened during Obama's presidency and it's happening during Trump's presidency.I checked out every link you provided. I don't see where members of Obama's administration were refused service at restaurants or had people protesting outside their home. Didn't see one where a member of the Obama administration was accosted when leaving a movie or on a plane. I didn't see in anything you provided that a member of the Obama administration was ever accosted or refused by a Republican.
Breitbart is a known right-wing, white nationalist web site...by who? I'd like to see proof of this one.
Pizzagate? Yeah, a few news stories written about President Donald Trump have been proven false. Reporters have apologized, stories have been retracted.
Here is a link to a Huffington Post story about why Westboro Baptist Church didn't support Trump. The leader is a registered Democrat.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/do … 0de405349eBeing kicked out of a restaurant must be awful, but when I checked out the videos Sharlee01 posted about left-wing violence, I didn't see the one where a left-wing extremist walked into a church and murdered 9 black people, because they were black.
I didn't see the one where a left-wing extremist walked into a school in New Mexico and murdered two students before killing himself. I Couldn't see the one where a left-wing extremist in Charlottesville deliberately rammed his vehicle into a crowd of protesters injuring 19 people and killing one.
I didn't see the one where a left-wing extremist in Portland stabbed two men to death and severely injured another for coming to the defense of two teenage girls, one African-American the other wearing a hijab who he was harassing.
I couldn't see the one where a left-wing extremist travelled to NYC to attack African-American men to stop white women from engaging in interracial relationships, and was charged with stabbing a homeless man.
All these crimes were committed by right-wing extremists. Yet you would have us believe that violence is only an issue for those on the left of the political spectrum.
The murderers who committed these crimes beg to differ.Inpervious, iron clad positions and arguments, well stated....
Does it say something to you when 2 (or more) people begin arguing that the far end of the opposite political spectrum is worse than the far end of their own, producing atrocities committed by "people" (if that's the right word) that no one would accept into either party? And claiming that they can tell, from the atrocity alone, that the criminal voted for the other party?
I'm sorry, but this whole thing is ridiculous.One person is making a connection between the violence of left-wing supporters and the Democratic Party. Another is suggesting that violence in politics is merely an issue for the left. I'm challenging both those views in different ways.
For the first, I'm just applying the person's argument about violence and the Democratic Party to Republicans and right-wing extremists, just to make a point. I refer you to the responses I gave way back on page 3:
My actual view on this can be seen on the same page:
In the first case, my comments went over the head of the person they were intended for, so I have continued to throw their argument about violence on the left back at them in relation to violence on the right. Perhaps if I'd just said from the start "the whole thing is ridiculous", that might have worked. Maybe I'll try that next time.
In the second case, readmikenow hasn't responded, so I don't know if my comments landed or not. I'm guessing not based on past experience, but you never know.
(1) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4014844
(2) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4015147Well, Wilderness, I think the issue is the level of violence compared between ideological extremes, yes. The excesses of the Right just based on the body counts are greater. If that is what is being said then I agree with it.
We disagree. When that's all we have to offer to denigrate the other political party - a sad claim that violent crimes committed by pitiful people must belong to your party but never mine - it isn't worth responding to.
To each their own.Lets put aside the violent extremes of both sides, and lets determine what the sides in general stand for today. Not what they used to stand for, not what we want them to stand for, but what they actually are as best can be determined.
Thirty years ago, the Democratic Party definitely stood for different things, it now stands for issues that didn't even exist then. So lets not mistake what was thirty, or twenty years ago with today.
When I see something like this (below) flowing freely on Facebook, and becoming mainstream thought for a particular party, I suggest everyone become real aware of what it is they are supporting.
That one is easy: both parties stand firmly behind money and political power.
I am missing your point here, Ken, could you clarify?
Apparently only Credence misses the point Ken ? And its liberals who decry conservatives for bringing a new low point to the white house with Trump after the Bill Clinton terms ?
I suspect you are Credence, primarily because you choose to see posts and positions through a prism of racial bias, or religious bias.
When you go into a debate on the defensive because you are a 'true believer' in a political party or system, then you have lost the ability to evaluate the facts put forth. Your bias makes you incapable of seeing that the Democratic Party no longer represents the ideals and positions it fought for 30, 20, years ago.
Those fights were fought, and won. The laws of the land now support full equal rights for women, for minorities, and in fact demand that biases favor them. Whether you are dealing with HUD, the SBA, or FGD essentially being a non-white-male affords you benefits you would not otherwise receive.
Are there still plenty of people with bias and racism, yes, but it is not supported by the Nation's laws, it is not supported by its institutions. There will always be ignorant people of ALL races, ALL beliefs, and that will remain the case until long after we have all passed from this world.
So what I am saying is be AWARE of the new tack that the Democratic Party is taking, what it is representing, and make sure that it is what you want to support, its what you believe in.
The Democratic Party is no longer the Party that is championing 'Black's Rights' that is a losing demographic for them, so they instead are focusing on illegal aliens. Not that they won't give lip service to those same tired race-bait issues, but the big block of votes is the more important target.
Hispanics (more than half of which are from Mexico) make up more than 30% of the voting block, more if illegals are allowed to vote, especially in states like CA and NV and TX, so if they can capture their votes they believe they can win.
Same with the new LGBTQRS movement, lumping them all in together, the Transgender, Pedophile, Lesbian, etc. groups united under one banner... can you imagine someone saying in public 25 years ago that they think their 'rights' to enjoy pedophilia should be protected?
Well guess what, that's what today's Democratic Party is supporting and championing, among a lot of other things I'd classify as illegal or destructive to society... all I'm saying is take the blinders off and see what your party truly stands for TODAY, because its not what it stood for 20 years ago.I suspect you are Credence, primarily because you choose to see posts and positions through a prism of racial bias, or religious bias.
When you go into a debate on the defensive because you are a 'true believer' in a political party or system, then you have lost the ability to evaluate the facts put forth. Your bias makes you incapable of seeing that the Democratic Party no longer represents the ideals and positions it fought for 30, 20, years ago.
OK, Ken, let me make this clear, the Democratic Party reflects EXACTLY what I am looking for in regards to direction this nation takes in the coming years, along the lines of Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders. I believe in the ideals and principles that it is fighting for now, there is no confusion. There is nothing in the Trump agenda nor Trump universe that is any real value to me right now. I am NOT a conservative on most fronts so I can understand how you can be confused. But, I am not. The Democrats were right on target 30 years ago as it is right on target today. I am almost 65 years old, I was not born yesterday, nor was I hiding under a rock while the events were taking place. So, I deserve credit for that.
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Those fights were fought, and won. The laws of the land now support full equal rights for women, for minorities, and in fact demand that biases favor them. Whether you are dealing with HUD, the SBA, or FGD essentially being a non-white-male affords you benefits you would not otherwise receive.
And we want to be sure that there is NO backsliding, Trump and his entourage is the biggest threat of that right now. We must continue to take extraordinary efforts to equal a balance that has been unequal for so long.
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Are there still plenty of people with bias and racism, yes, but it is not supported by the Nation's laws, it is not supported by its institutions. There will always be ignorant people of ALL races, ALL beliefs, and that will remain the case until long after we have all passed from this world.
The idea is that that "ignorant people" should not be in the position of power, that is the tone that the Trump administration sets.
So what I am saying is be AWARE of the new tack that the Democratic Party is taking, what it is representing, and make sure that it is what you want to support, its what you believe in.
I embrace the New Tack, as it is the better of the choices set before me.
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The Democratic Party is no longer the Party that is championing 'Black's Rights' that is a losing demographic for them, so they instead are focusing on illegal aliens. Not that they won't give lip service to those same tired race-bait issues, but the big block of votes is the more important target.
As a Black man, the Democratic Party has been more responsive than the other Party in my opinion. If I can keep out the hybrids, Democrats sucking up to the GOP and rightwing philosophies as totally inconsistent with what I think is needed.....And I am somewhat qualified to speak on this.
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Hispanics (more than half of which are from Mexico) make up more than 30% of the voting block, more if illegals are allowed to vote, especially in states like CA and NV and TX, so if they can capture their votes they believe they can win.
Ken, I can't speak to the true extent that illegal Hispanics are swaying the election. But, I will tell you that Conservatives need to recognize that most Hispanics are American citizens, and they choose not to vote Republican.
You seem a pretty knowledgeable fellow. Can you tell me why, that the only people that vote for Trump and are responsible for his election are white people? Jews, Asians, Blacks and Hispanics voted overwhelmingly against him. All minorities voted against Trump. So what is about whites verses the rest of us that have us seeing things so much differently? You say that the swamp needs to be drained, but why is this sentiment not found among other groups outside of white folks?
Ken, thanks for the interchange, nice to have you back.
Thank you, but sadly, what I find in these exchanges of the past few days is a very hard, unflinching, argumentative (probably veiled hostility) from people who are arguing the other side of the aisle.
There is no true discourse, take for instance this example. I note that its getting IMO creepy over there on the 'Left' giving an example with that capture, I can accept a lot of things, but when people start marching, and posting, and supporting pedophilia there is no support, no tolerance, no amount of law making that will make me accept that.
A guy wants to dress up as a girl, fine... not my thing, but whatever. That guy wants to shower with young girls, or have sex with them, nope... not supporting that movement, that cause, and I will oppose it vehemently.
The point I am getting at, is that it is really getting hard to remain 'middle of the road' for anyone, the 'Left' is picking up every extreme, every 'victim' that it can under its umbrella, seemingly with the goal of bringing down the entire system... our social morals, our constitution, our borders, attacks on police, etc.
So while you feel comfortable in supporting the Democratic Party, no matter what it turns into or what it represents. Hopefully those that read these comments, but don't themselves comment, get the opportunity to consider what is being said, and maybe do some research as to the truths of our statements on their own.
You make some good counter arguments, and certainly bring to light the flaws in the 'opposition', but there are some things I cannot accept, and like you, I will support one side because I see it as the lesser of two evils.A guy wants to dress up as a girl, fine... not my thing, but whatever. That guy wants to shower with young girls, or have sex with them, nope... not supporting that movement, that cause, and I will oppose it vehemently.
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Ken, I will not speak for others but if there were a moderate, more conservative strain my in nature it is over this confused gender and who uses which bathroom stuff. I find that to be deviant, but, of course, that is just me. My, otherwise, progressive pedigree was never intended to be aligned with such ideasThe issues have shifted to other things. What the parties represent are far different than what they were even two election cycles ago.
Transgender rights, the movement to legitimize pedophilia, open vs. controlled borders, rights of illegals, and Socialism vs. Capitalism.
Those are the topics at the forefront today.
People of color and women have equal representation under the law. Laws, non-profits, and government programs all work to support these various 'classes' sometimes to the exclusion of men or Caucasian peoples.
A women's right to abortions is probably the only primary/key issue to remain on the table from previous elections. And still a key component to the divide, I just think its becoming a lesser issue than it had been as more emphasis is placed on these new issues.
Twenty years ago, there was no serious debate on Socialism (in the form of rewriting American laws and government roles) vs. Capitalism, but there is today. Socialism is supported under the Democratic Party umbrella, while Capitalism (keeping the status quo) falls squarely under Conservative or Republican.
Twenty years ago there were no Sanctuary cities, today cities like San Francisco are giving illegal aliens the right to vote and registering them to do so.I'm sure that's all very interesting, but do you accept that the images you posted are fake as per the references in this comment: https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4016892
And do you have an explanation for why you are posting information that is proven to be false?Ken,
As for the parties representing different thing than what they did in the past, perhaps, but that gives me even less confidence now with what the GOP has morphed into during recent years.
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Transgender rights, the movement to legitimize pedophilia, open vs. controlled borders, rights of illegals, and Socialism vs. Capitalism.
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I am for transgender rights and the rights of all up to a certain point, where those Rights do not conflict with the rights of others. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party seeks to legitimize pedophilia. Illegals have the right to be treated in accordance with time ho ored principles of human rights, that does not give them the right to immigrate and stay without going through proper immigration channels and/or procedures. As a "lefty", this where I stand, not supporting anarchy.
I prefer socialism over a capitalism that is laissez faire and allow for abuse of labor and the environment with the capitalist class having inordinate influence with the legislators in Washington. Reversing the New Deal and its provisions has been a closet dream of Conservatives, but we won't have that. But let's just say that I am less for Socialism and more for Capitalism as practiced here being kept under a tight leash and a close watch. Capitalism is not an absolute for me, and I fear concepts of Socialism much less, as it already a part of the economy whether people acknowledge it or not.
I see rights given to women and minorities as necessary to allow for their fair participation that previously was denied. Much of the Right, too many Anglos see this inclusion, not displacement, as a threat in itself, (zero sum game) such lies behind the rationale of more than a handful of Trump voters.
You can bet with the introduction of a reactionary Supreme Court, that what protections provided within the compromise known as Roe vs Wade will be threatened by the GOP, from the federal level on down. This issue is far from being insignificant.
I explained my stand regarding the concept of Socialism previously.
Now for the rest of the story..... I oppose the concept of allowing non citizens to be allowed to vote for anything, anywhere. However, this situation is to apply on a limited basis for elections of members to the SF school board, hardly county, state or national elections.
I will wait and see how far this is to go before raising the alarm...
http://www.ktvu.com/news/san-francisco- … -electionsI am for transgender rights and the rights of all up to a certain point, where those Rights do not conflict with the rights of others. There is no evidence that the Democratic Party seeks to legitimize pedophilia.
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Hard evidence no, but there were a few very quickly hushed stories in 2016 (ie - Pizzagate), and rumblings again last year in regards to Hollywood types and politicians taking plane rides to foreign lands.
And trust me, I will be doing some major investigative work on this prior to the 2020 election, if there is even a hint of support to push this agenda by the Dem Party my involvement into politics is going to take on a whole new level of commitment.
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I prefer socialism over a capitalism that is laissez faire and allow for abuse of labor and the environment with the capitalist class having inordinate influence with the legislators in Washington. Reversing the New Deal and its provisions has been a closet dream of Conservatives, but we won't have that. But let's just say that I am less for Socialism and more for Capitalism as practiced here being kept under a tight leash and a close watch.
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I believe in a functional, rational balance. As a society we cannot take in hundreds of millions of people and support them and survive, we can not run up debt as recklessly as we have the past decade (especially not to bail out banks).
One has to balance compassion for others with the reality of what would cause systematic collapse or social upheaval.
I believe where we must focus the most attention to do the most good are the Universities. What they charge is outrageous, half of what they teach is garbage. Post education is meant to be a place to learn how to think, and in some places that remains the case, but others its an indoctrination process.
Community colleges were supposed to be affordable. They need to become free, if people want to chase a Harvard degree and pay half a million dollars for it, more power to them. Many former Community colleges have changed their names, and now are all about the $$$.
Tech schools too, need to become more available, and should start in High School. In fact, a good high school would have their students trained for a trade (and offer many options, HVAC, Scripting, Nurses Assistant, etc.) so that they can become productive as an adult and pursue more education if they want, not as a necessity.
The problem with our system is we have politicians unwilling or unable to act on behalf of the people, we have had well over a dozen years of partisan politics with one side or the other passing laws rarely intended to better the lives of Americans. The ACA, helped the Insurance and Pharma companies far more than it solved the issues facing Americans regarding health care. Repealing Glass Steagall helped make the richest far richer, while the average workers paid the price in lost retirements, lost homes, etc.
We need to hold the 'establishment' accountable for it, THIS is the real spectacle we have been seeing these past two years between Trump and the insiders in D.C., in Congress, and with the Media. I have faith that enough American people are beginning to see it, and more change is to come, I believe this because when I talk to people now, I can talk to someone who isn't my race, or my sex, and we can agree on so much of what we think is wrong with what is going on today.
It will be a very bad day for those corrupt politicians in Washington when the American people start setting aside discriminations and biases, and start coming together with the goal of taking back their government and making it serve their best interests.Hard evidence no, but there were a few very quickly hushed stories in 2016 (ie - Pizzagate), and rumblings again last year in regards to Hollywood types and politicians taking plane rides to foreign lands.
And trust me, I will be doing some major investigative work on this prior to the 2020 election, if there is even a hint of support to push this agenda by the Dem Party my involvement into politics is going to take on a whole new level of commitment.
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I, too, would double back if such an agenda can be documented and proven.
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I believe in a functional, rational balance. As a society we cannot take in hundreds of millions of people and support them and survive, we can not run up debt as recklessly as we have the past decade (especially not to bail out banks).
For the capitalist class, it is capitalized profits and socialized losses, making reference to the bank bailouts. Capitalism will always be a part of America as essential, how the profit motive spurs innovation and risk taking which is part of the American success story. It is splendid concept as long as greed of a few does not take precedence over the public benefit for the many
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One has to balance compassion for others with the reality of what would cause systematic collapse or social upheaval.
Liberals, compared to conservatives have differing points on where that balance is to be struck.
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I believe where we must focus the most attention to do the most good are the Universities. What they charge is outrageous, half of what they teach is garbage. Post education is meant to be a place to learn how to think, and in some places that remains the case, but others its an indoctrination process.
Community colleges were supposed to be affordable. They need to become free, if people want to chase a Harvard degree and pay half a million dollars for it, more power to them. Many former Community colleges have changed their names, and now are all about the $$$.
That is where some of the Socialism comes in, it is in our interests, or at least mine as part of an aging generation, to see our younger people gainfully employed in occupations that are to dominate the future, not the past. If they do well, I do well. That means an emphasis on trade schools and raising their status as being viable alternatives to the traditional 4 year degree program. From what I hear, Germany is well on the way with this sort of approach. Rather than having a society all the polarized with the have and have nots, a goal of having an educated, economically viable middle class is desirable. That means investing in people with free or low cost access to education and training.
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Tech schools too, need to become more available, and should start in High School. In fact, a good high school would have their students trained for a trade (and offer many options, HVAC, Scripting, Nurses Assistant, etc.) so that they can become productive as an adult and pursue more education if they want, not as a necessity.
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I am with you here.....
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The problem with our system is we have politicians unwilling or unable to act on behalf of the people, we have had well over a dozen years of partisan politics with one side or the other passing laws rarely intended to better the lives of Americans. The ACA, helped the Insurance and Pharma companies far more than it solved the issues facing Americans regarding health care. Repealing Glass Steagall helped make the richest far richer, while the average workers paid the price in lost retirements, lost homes, etc.
You are preaching to the choir, Ken. Our representatives are often bought and sold by special interests. Court rulings from the conservative side, like "Citizens United" encourages this tendency. I still believe that ACA was a start and better than doing nothing, not allowing a preexisting problem to continue to fester. Repealing Glass-Stengal was a mistake, that subject the nest eggs of the average American to the roulette wheel. I don't trust Wall Street and the "moneychangers" implicitly. They are more than willing to take it all, if given the opportunity.
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We need to hold the 'establishment' accountable for it, THIS is the real spectacle we have been seeing these past two years between Trump and the insiders in D.C., in Congress, and with the Media. I have faith that enough American people are beginning to see it, and more change is to come, I believe this because when I talk to people now, I can talk to someone who isn't my race, or my sex, and we can agree on so much of what we think is wrong with what is going on today.
Yes, we can agree to much of the problems, but differ on the solutions and who can best provide them.
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It will be a very bad day for those corrupt politicians in Washington when the American people start setting aside discriminations and biases, and start coming together with the goal of taking back their government and making it serve their best interests.
Understood, the problem is as I mentioned earlier, that we differ as how that is to be done. I don't agree with many conservative solutions as to how to address the problem and I see Trump as fundamentally conservative and not helpful toward the solution.
I have questions.
1. Do you have a source for the image and the original message? Links would be appreciated.
2. How do you know this was not posted by a troll?
3. If someone creates a Twitter/ Facebook account, calls themselves a conservative, and posts a message saying they'd like to reinstate slavery, does that mean we have to accept that is what the right stands for?
Ken, c'mon now. This guy is either a troll or just a sicko. But this guy is clearly fringe and should be in jail. Trying to link him to progressives as a whole is ridiculous. Please explain how mainstream progressives are supporting anything like this. Show me any mainstream group that promotes illegal child sexual abuse as a platform. Posting this as an example of all progressives should be beneath anyone with a sense of common decency.
Again, my suggestion to anyone, is to do their homework as to what their 'cause' or 'party' is truly representing today.
You just might be surprised.
What you're implying with that post is that all progressives are child molesters. So you've actually managed to lower this particular forum even more. We progressives are apparently all violent child molesters.
How am I implying that? Maybe comparing these extremes has been a futile exercise? Suffice it for me to say that in my opinion those on far ends of the political Right are proving the more disruptive and dangerous, citing the examples by Don W. I am not necessarily speaking about political parties but it is not hard to see, particularely under current administration, which political party has given the greater support and cover to the extremist Right, tacit or otherwise.
I going to naturally have a problem with racism and bigotry being the basic foundation of many of these groups since their founding. What Left based group in the last 50 years has been the source of the same notoriety?
I spite of what Ken says, basic observation makes clear to me who my real adversaries are.
PS, we must not forget that the Oklahoma City bombing was accomplished by One motivated based upon rightwing ideals. One glance at the Turner Diaries tell the whole story.
Thank you, Wilderness. Well stated. I think the intellectual energy being expended on this dialogue is an insult to everyone participating, myself included.
Yep, no gay couple has ever been refused service for like, a wedding cake or anything.
Just wondering, how many Republicans support marriage equality? Are you really trying to tell me that the WBC, with their anti-gay stance, supports Democrats?Mike, maybe we could do a little back and forth and see if we can agree on what the other believes. I'll give you one and you give me one. I'll start. Would you agree with this ideological assessment.
The left believes in equal rights for homosexuals.
The right does not believe in equal rights for homosexuals.
Is that a fair statement, generally?You have to do better than a straw man argument again. Geeeze.
I don't recall a gay couple who works for the Obama administration having a baker refused to design a wedding cake for them. The baker you mention provided all of their other services for the gay couple.
Every right-winger on here makes so many caveats to their point I can't follow anymore.
So what you want me to show you is Obama supporters being harassed for supporting Obama? Does this count?
And if you want me to admit if I have any evidence of, specifically, Obama administration officials being asked to leave establishments or harassed by Republicans, I don't specifically remember anything like that. I do remember Obama being called a liar during the State of the Union. I do remember Obama having his birth certificate constantly challenged, but I don't think that is specifically what you are talking about.
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Watch out now , The new / old liberal " Show me the evidence or I'll call you a racist " trick is being dropped on the table again .
As Aime F said:
So:
1. Do you or Ken have a source for the image and the original message? Links would be appreciated.
2. How do you know this was not posted by a troll?
3. If someone creates a Twitter/ Facebook account, calls themselves a conservative, and posts a message saying they'd like to reinstate slavery, does that mean we have to accept that is what the right stands for?
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
To be completely honest , I've said it before , One would have to have been raised in a cave and just found his way back to civilization and to the present state of extreme leftist provocation and almost daily violence and activism passing itself off AS news media --to not know that it is the alt -left that is the most ideologically violent .
Proof , One hour with observing Antifa .Anyone can make false claims on social media. Until someone confirms either way, that message could just be posted by some troll. Without evidence, it's just an anonymous message on the internet, and you're naive to take it seriously.
So I repeat:
1. Do you or Ken have a source for the image and the original message? If you do, great, share those links.
2. Was the image posted by a troll? How do you know either way?
3. If someone creates a Twitter/ Facebook account, calls themselves a conservative, and posts a message saying they'd like to reinstate slavery, should everyone just accept that as being what the right stands for?And I repeat , Tell us all Don , Which news media source is a confirmed source of honest reporting of news media ?
In fact , Does the term "confirmed sources " somehow mean more to the masses , to Hubpages , to you ?
Honestly , stop playing pretend prosecutor .Again, I've made a simple request for a source.
People post BS on the internet all the time. Why should I, or anyone else, take the image posted by Ken seriously? Unless Ken demonstrates otherwise, it's just a message posted on social media by (I assume) a completely random stranger.
Even kids these days are taught not to trust things posted online by random strangers, so why would Ken? In fact why would any sensible person treat such a thing as Gospel truth? Only a fool would do that.
And why is Ken using it as the basis for determining what the Democratic Party "stands for"? The person who posted it didn't even say they were a Democrat. And even if they did anyone can fake being a Democrat or Republican online. Was it posted by a known Democratic Party activist? A Democratic Party employee? A Democratic Party official? If so, please share that information. If not, what's it got to do with the Democratic Party?
Perhaps Ken should ask actual Democrats what the Democratic Party stands for. Would make a lot more sense that just pulling random social media messages out of his . . browser.
So Ken, do you have the links to the original message? Or is this just some random picture you picked up from the web? If so, please explain what makes it "mainstream thought for a particular party".
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Don ,Given the abysmal quality and consciousness of today's MAINSTREAM news media , it's actually a bit preposterous to ask for proof , Essentially there is no mainstream media at this point .
At least not in any traditional sense .Perhaps because there is now just too much media or too many outlets , What I've noticed in the larger sense is the quality of the writing , it's as if it's all being written up by Face -Book journalism graduates . for instance F-bombs in news articles have evolved from backyard conversations to mainstream news articles . The inclusion of viable and reliable sources has devolved to sensationalism and party agenda , All of it perfectly attuned to the twenty something year old mind , and written by first year "journalists " .
So no Don , in this newest era of 'mainstream media 'asking for sources has become a request that 's almost totally ignored by the media itself, asking for it here is simply a day too late. There is however no better a time that being capable of making up our own minds based on life experience , our age , in overall maturity of readership , and analytical ability .
And for all of us , Good luck finding "reliable sources ".You're deflecting, but to be fair, you were not the one who posted the original image.
Ken Burgess posted this:
He then implied that this message is the type of issue the Democratic Party "stands for", and that it represents "mainstream thought for a particular party", i.e. the Democratic Party.
I've asked Ken for a source to the original message. I've asked how he knows the message was not posted by a troll. I've also asked what connects this message to the Democratic Party.
Those are all perfectly reasonable questions. So far Ken has not responded.
crankalicious already said "This guy is either a troll or just a sicko. . . this guy is clearly fringe and should be in jail. Trying to link him to progressives as a whole is ridiculous"
That sums it up perfectly.
Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can post anything they want onto social media. It's irresponsible for Ken to post this type of message, and even more irresponsible to try to link it to the Democratic Party.
If you saw a message on social media from someone who says they're a conservative promoting paedophilia, or wanting to reinstate slavery, would you accept that is what the right stands for? If not, why not?"These are all perfectly reasonable questions ......"
Yet , the left groups everything on the right equally , like the examples of that which you defend , I've seen it here in political forums a million times , in fact your entire party's journey through the entire Trump obstruction has done exactly the same thing ,
"Deplorables" for one comes to mind . This entire defense you are using still shows nothing as much as the greater hypocrisy of the left , "Prove to us we are all pedophiles because some of us are"?
Isn't it the same when Peter Strzok said in an e -mail to his lover , " .... I can smell the Walmart on them.... " when his FBI was monitoring a Trump campaign rally ? Isn't it the same when you or others here accuse the right of being aligned with the KKK , with the Nazi party ? I just love it when the usual elitist 'clics' of the left attempt to take the moral high ground and then stumbles its way through their own hypocrisy.I don't think Nazis represent all Republicans. The point was to show the opening poster what would happen if Republicans were judged by the same standard she was applying to Democrats.
Strangely the same people who were happy with the idea that violent protesters represent Democrats (including you I believe) argued that it's unfair to say Nazis represent Republicans. That's the hypocrisy I was trying to highlight.
Highlighting the hypocrisy further, Ken posted an anonymous message promoting paedophilia, suggesting it's what the Democratic Party stands for. You have accepted that message, and criticised me for challenging it.
So, by the same standard, do you accept that this message shows the Republican Party now stands for Nazism?
If not, why not?Well, I would expect any person interested in 'fact checking' a statement someone made to look into it. You are correct that a mere facebook post is little to go off of. So let me add a bit more to peruse, and then you, and anyone else, can do all the research you want if you desire to know more:
Pedophiles want to be a part of the LGBT+ community, even going so far as to make a “Pride” flag for Gay Pride Month and joining them in marches. The “MAP/NOMAP community” claims that pedophiles are misunderstood marginalized people, and that as long as they get permission from the child …that they should not be villainized.
A self-appointed spokesman for the LGBT “community” named Ernst Steiner is advocating that LGBTs to add P to LGBT the quote below is from April 23, 2017 for a blog he founded called Heart Progress:
“For years, the struggle against hate and bigotry has gone on. For years, sexual minority groups of all sorts have faced persecution. Now, in the 21st century, we are finally beginning to see that bigotry begin to disappear. Homosexuals have the right to marry, minority genders are finally being recognized, transgender children are finally getting the treatment they need to be who they are, and most importantly, these groups are finally being given minority status.
But the sexual liberation movement has only just begun, and there’s still more work to be done. Yes, homosexuals have the right to marriage in some places, but there still needs to be global laws to ensure they have the right to marriage in all places. Sure, transgenders are being recognized for who they are, but discrimination against them is still rampant in today’s world. Luckily, these issues are being tackled by progressive groups across the globe, but there is still one minority group that is marginalized to the point of neglect: pedosexuals.
Since the beginning of the LGBT+ movement, pedosexuals have been there helping to achieve sexual liberation for all. Unfortunately, pedosexuals have also been the ones to stand up and take the heat to help prevent abuse toward their other sexual minority friends. This act of bravery among pedosexuals in the name of sexual equality has led to them being the ones being persecuted to this day, despite also being born with a different attraction. Now that the sexual liberation movement is succeeding, bigots have now focused all of their hate on pedosexuals, as they have already lost the war against other sexual minorities.
So the question still stands: Should the LGBTQ+ movement accept pedosexuals? I think that the answer is quite obvious: Absolutely!
I too am surprised Ken that someone who is supposedly interested in the truth should fail to actually refer to a fact-check of this story. Like this one:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lgbtp-adding-letter/
Let me quote what this fact-check says:
"This is not a genuine flyer from an LGBT group, nor has any LGBT group condoned pedophilia, let alone announced that a “P” would be added to the acronym in order to show support for pedophiles".
So this flyer is a fake. How strange that you should post it, and associate it with the Democratic Party but not mention that it is fake. Why is that Ken?
The fact-check goes on:
"This fraudulent poster seems to be the work of a 4chan misinformation campaign that began with a 23 June 2016 thread about tricking LGBT activists into supporting pedophiles. . . Several users chimed in with their ideas of how to make and promote the poster, which originally included the tagline 'Love Is Ageless'"
Again, how strange you would post that image, but not report that it is part of a disinformation campaign? Again, why would that be Ken?
And in case you want to see the thread that this disinformation campaign started in, here it is: https://4archive.org/board/b/thread/691172252
Here is a quote from that thread: "Flood twitter with #lgbtp and #loveisageless with pics like this"
Here is another thread in which people planned to post false information that the LGBT community supports pedophilia:
https://archive.is/ZtCIP
Did all this information pass you by somehow Ken? How could that be for someone as dedicated to the truth as you are?
Finally Ken, please tell me, does this message mean that we need to associate Republicans with paedophiles? By the standard of truth you are using, it does. If you don't think that's reasonable, why isn't it?
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Still ! No one on the left apparently dares to address the SCALE of the fact that Yes , violent protests are representative of the democratic party , Yes , That includes all political violence ,
The amount of activist violence from the right is miniscule by comparison . EVEN adding into the mix that which represents your preposturous comparison of KKK and Nazism to the right in America , violence from republicans can't begin to hold a candle to the almost daily inciting and perpetration from the left .
Address the scale please ? - ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
All so very interesting when one considers just how vehemently the democratic party is host to so much past justification for basically
" all of the above "---If it can be considered to be of liberal thought ideology of LGBQ , women on the front lines transgenders in the military ,paid sex change operations , underage marriages ,trans bathrooms in elementary schools , transracial , the elimination of the terms Boy or Girl Scouts , the entire wedding cake wars and resulting fiasco , ....................
It's good to know some liberals do actually" draw a line "somewhere ................
Now you all have me wondering just how many of them do ? - ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
So either Trump has essentially "Hit The Nail On The Head" with retweeting this video of CNNs stupidity , OR CNN actually took on , -----AFTER this video, ............ the fake news personna of today ?
Freekin' beautiful ! Nazis and anti-Semites slip through GOP primaries
Arthur Jones is an avowed member of the American Nazi Party, a Holocaust denier and a sympathizer of the Ku Klux Klan.
He also is the Republican candidate challenging Democratic Rep. Dan Lipinski for Illinois’ Chicago-area 3rd Congressional District.
Along with Jones, there is another outspoken Holocaust denier and anti-Semite on the Republican ballot in California.
John Fitzgerald is running against incumbent Democratic Rep. Mark DeSaulnier in California’s 11th Congressional District after finishing second with 24.8 percent of the vote in the state’s “jungle” primary. This qualified him for the general election.
Paul Nehlen is running for a chance to fill the seat of House Speaker Paul Ryan in Wisconsin’s 1st Congressional District.
A self-described “pro-White” candidate who sought Ryan’s seat in 2016, Nehlen has made headlines for suggesting the country have a discussion about not letting Muslims live in the country, and for defending white supremacist messages on social media. He also published the phone numbers and addresses of people who criticized his campaign, said that all his critics were Jewish and blasted some elected officials for allegedly being dual citizens of the U.S. and Israel.- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
Sharlee , Really ? You're expecting the left to respond to the massive offset in the scale of violence from left to right ? We've asked them for that already and they keep dodging and deflecting that issue because why ? Because they KNOW their rhetoric and actual violence far outweighs that of the right . You have to understand one idiotic editorial on the right during Obama's era equates to ALL of the hate from the left today towards trump and all of his followers. That's the liberal P,C. denial games of Don W. or anyone in this very thread and more than a few others .
Ever read Alinsky stuff Sharlee ?........Welcome to the left .I have read some of Alinsky crazy... It is very clear, not many here lean right. Makes it very hard to civil, some drive me over the edge. I have been ban twice in the past month. It's apparent some here belong to a herd. Don, for instance, brings up others opinions to bolster his own. Can't even wrap my head around this, left that tactic back in grade school. Where the he-- are we headed?
Well, as a lot of us know very well , conservatives remain quiet until far later than the parrots squawk . Yes there are many parrots on the left who're rather vocal and very provocative so keep your cool , you actually reason very well to their general angry rants . I have been banned a few times here and in truth everyone knows that THAT IS the mission of the left , silence the opposition at all costs .
They have even sacrificed themselves to that cause by taunting until they get banned too..
I try now to just point out the hypocrisies of the left , they constantly ask for sources as if their own media wasn't almost totally biased to their causes .
I would absolutely hate to be of the younger generations here that are so brainwashed and they will remain so for years to come . Why in the world do parents who should be far wiser about the systematic brainwashing of these younger generations allow such to happen today ?
Keep your cool Sharlee , you are wiser , calmer and far more informed than they are !Lefties are always the cooler heads and simply are made up from more sophisticated substance. BTW, stormy weather is coming, Horse. More great news about the GOP anticipated get to an a$$ kicking this coming November, so then what is a rightwinger to do?
An a$$ kicking be there will....,
YodaOr maybe you’ve been banned so many times because you’re actually the exact opposite of calm and cool-headed?
Maybe you should try taking responsibility for yourself rather than blaming everyone else. I know that’s kinda your schtick but you might actually learn something about yourself if you don’t always pretend it’s everyone else’s fault.
"Pushing the narrative that violent rhetoric etc. is mainly an issue for the left, is a poor choice.". That is your opinion, to me, it is a choice I am ready to defend it and have... Just to make it very clear, In my opinion, those that lean to the left have no problem promoting violence, as well as committing it.
Well, Sharlee, we say the same thing about the radical right and, then, ten cents just might get you a cup of coffee. Who is to say that your opinion is any more valid than mine or Don's?
Bingo... Well said... Boy, it certainly took a long time and lots of bitter words to finally come to a pretty good opinion. "Who is to say that your opinion is any more valid than mine or Don's? " NO one... However, I have a right to defend my an opinion if confronted. It is clear we have very different opinions on this subject. Sometimes it's just better to agree to disagree.
My original question was a simple one. It required a simple response. The thread has taken many turns and curves. I was asked for resources to back my point. I will admit I was shocked by how many incidences of left-wing violence is available online. I was really not able to find much in regards to rightwing violence. Yes the KKK or Neo-Nazi groups certainly promote violence but are less visible. And as a rule, Republicans do not associate themselves or condone the ideology of these groups.
After days of going back and forth, in my opinion, leftist appear to be more prone to dog whistles that can promote violence. There is just to much evidence that leans in that direction.We always do denounce any KKK and other "conservative" labeled and associated organizations , meaning because liberals call KKK or Nazi idiots right wingers , doesn't mean they are conservatives.
But do liberals call a halt to their Antifa , their campus riots , Seattle , Portland , Ferguson and other cities riots , their BLM violence, Berkeley riots ? Do they call for an end to the cop killings happening almost daily ? And yes , by association we can blame criminal cop killings on liberals . incited by the last administration's and their party rhetoric . No , they not only DON'T denounce leftist violence but they are more likely to defend it wholeheartedly .Blaming criminal activity on the political left is a cheap shot, Horse. I can easy say that the increased white supremacist and Aryan nations activity is due to the influence of its tacit Grand Poobah, Donald J. Trump. If you can blame Obama, then I can certainly blame Trump... these radical groups are based on just a superlative extension of Conservatives deeply regarded principles and values,
Except .................ready for it ?
Your party's violent uptic happened way before Trump was even running on a ticket ! So sorry you fail miserably on that one .Are you kidding? The left has ripped Trump up one side and down the other. "these radical groups are based on just a superlative extension of Conservatives deeply regarded principles and values," Really yet you did not find us at any of Hillary's rallies? And you certainly did not find republicans calling for violence, and encourage the assassination of the president. with comedic dog whistles or demented Government representatives calling to "Push Back" on anyone that is in the Trump WH. Congresswoman Daine Black was threatened, and a man charged for those threats yesterday... By a left-leaning nut. IT's almost hard to keep up with all the incidents. Not a cheap shot, the daily news provides plenty of truth on this subject.
https://www.wate.com/news/tennessee/man … 1326031303Your link does not establish that the threat is of a leftist nature, I need to know more about the assailant.
You made your point Sharlee, but I see things this way:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … ts/506078/
Perhaps this is just another point of the impasse. We both have problems with the behavior of the other side.
No one is talking about the assassinating the President and "Push Back" does not have a violent implication. Yes, I am against Trump and the vast majority of his policies and viewpoints and will challenge him as far as I can WITHIN the parameters of the law. Isn't that part of the job of the opposition in any circumstance? I am honest about it, at least. I am not going to trip Trump up unfairly and won't have anything to say if he does not get out of line, but if he does I am all over him like a cheap suit.In regards to Maxine Waters comment. She did call to harass anyone that works in the Trump cabinet. She advocated that they should go to their home to protest. Screaming "No peace, no sleep ". Actually, the left has hurt many people pushing back at Trump rallies in the cause of pushing back...
"[Maxine Waters:] Source: LYBIO.net
And so let’s stay the course. Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere …" "No peace, no sleep".
Yes, I agree we have come to an impasse. It's your prerogative to state your opinion. We all have one...
Horse, No as a rule liberal will not denounce the violent groups that turn up at the protest to cause trouble. Actually, they, as a rule, don't even see the problem with the vile left dog whistles. They compare, they deflect, they don't accept the reality of just how violent the far left has become. They seem to feel it's OK because they are trying to promote and an ideology that they accept as "something good". You know like no more straws, but plastic water bottles and the plastic lid's covering their coffee is OK... LOL And then there are the plastic syringes that they provide their junkies in San Fan. you know they would not want them to become ill from a germy needle. Guess it did not dawn on them a junkie is not the picture of health. If this was not so sad, I would be laughing...
Looking at the dialogue between Don and yourself and with my observations and opinions diametrically opposed to yours, perhaps it is better that we agree to disagree.....
In this thread the number of examples of violence or violent rhetoric, coming from the right, that you have raised without prompting is: 0.
That's not just expressing an opinion, it's telling a false story. These are the false stories you, and others, have tried to tell in this thread:
It's mostly people on the left who tend to be violent
The Democratic Party condones violence
The Democratic Party actively encourages violence
The Democratic Party stands for pedophilia! (see Ken Burgess' comments)
Again, these are not merely "opinions" Sharlee01. They are false narratives.
In the interests of balance though (following Credence2's example) this is not unique to the right. So here are some false narratives some people on the left try to push:
Everyone on the right is a racist
The Republican Party are all Nazis and White Supremacists
Everyone on the right is an idiot
No one on the right has a shred of decency
As a political conservative, you know those narratives about conservatives are not true. So why should you treat them as anything other than false? Likewise, why should I, or others, treat the narratives about liberals in this thread as anything other than false (I mean, pedophilia, really?!?)
Some people in prominent positions sew seeds of division in society, but they can't actually create division. It takes ordinary people to cultivate seeds of division so they bear fruit. You are cultivating seeds of division. That's what false narratives do.
The beauty of forums like this, is that they provide the opportunity to talk to people with different political views, who you may not have the opportunity to speak to otherwise. At the beginning of this thread, you asked for opinions on violent rhetoric, and you got them. And what did that show?
As far as I can see, not one single person who you might call a liberal, has said they support political violence, or violent rhetoric. Not one. Instead of allowing that to help inform your view of "the left" though, you've totally ignored it.
Remember, when you talk about "the left", you're not just talking about some abstract thing. You're talking about those of us on the forum who are on the left. If we say we don't agree with political violence, don't tell us we're wrong because that doesn't fit the story you want to tell about "the left". That only leads to the ridiculous situation where you are telling people who are part of the left, what "the left" thinks! Perhaps you could try listening instead.
There are lots of people on the forum who will give you an honest left-wing view of almost any subject. You're spoilt for choice. False narratives should have no place though.
Some people on the forums revel in those false narratives, but you don't have to be one of them. For example, you could choose to treat the forum as an opportunity to get the views of ordinary people on the left, rather than using it to push narratives about "the left" from Facebook, or YouTube, or wherever else these false narratives come from.
That's what I meant by making better choices. It doesn't necessarily mean changing your political view. You're a conservative and you have every right to be. It just means basing your opinions on something that's real, instead of something that's false.Let me remind you, you were the one that started to compare Right and left. You were the one that asked for resources. You became defensive. When confronted. I don't back down. Maybe just a simple answer to my question would have been enough. You see I have an opinion too. And will defend it. It is odd that when another's opinion differs from your own, you just will not call it a day. Let it go...
And in regard to a False narrative? Another incident occurred a couple of days ago yesterday... Congresswoman Black life was threatened, and an arrest resulted. Can't really even keep up with the lefts threats against Republicans. Sorry, but I do find the left have very violent tendencies and are just more apt to be violent when they think they have a cause. And dog whistles sometimes is all it takes to set one off.
https://www.wate.com/news/tennessee/man … 1326031303Don,
You don't seem to know the difference between opinions and a narrative? The difference is an opinion is a belief.
Don states- "That's not just expressing an opinion, it's telling a false story. These are the false stories you, and others, have tried to tell in this thread:
It's mostly people on the left who tend to be violent
The Democratic Party condones violence
The Democratic Party actively encourages violence
The Democratic Party stands for pedophilia! (see Ken Burgess' comments)"
In regard to the following statements-
It's mostly people on the left who tend to be violent
The Democratic Party condones violence
The Democratic Party actively encourages violence.
In my opinion, these statements ring of truth to me. I have a right to my personal opinion. You can call them a narrative if it suits you. However, they are my opinion. And you know what? There are millions that feel the exact same way. If It may make you uncomfortable, but that's your problem.But Sharlee, I need to remind you that there are millions that believe the way Don and I do as well. Remember, Trump won only with a slight of hand regarding the Electoral College, the popular vote certainly went my way. He may not be so lucky next time....
"Trump won only with the Slight of Hand Of the Electoral College ", Now there is a brilliant statement , That's how Trump won , trickery , a shell game , fixing an election , magic of some kind for certain ...........?
Trump won because of the absolute brilliance of a candidate who couldn't coagulate a message , couldn't visit a campaign trail , couldn't hide a corrupt past , nor contain a corrupt DNC from exposing itself like her husband would be proud to do , that couldn't buy a victory for her with raw green cash .That is very true. Although everything he touches turns to gold. Most people love gold... He is doing a wonderful job with the economy, and he makes it all look so easy. He is visibly working daily on problems that have plagued the country for years. If he wins with his foreign, he is a shoe in.
It is obvious you are an intelligent person. Just makes me wonder how you are not willing to recognize that all is going well in the country, and most likely more to come.
So, will he be lucky next time around? This is where you don't seem to understand, it was not luck. IT was an agenda, a progresses agenda. He was brave enough to point out longtime problems, and solutions to solving those problems. Yes, all politicians make promises, and we as voters have come to know they don't keep them. People with common sense saw Trump as different, and many of us at this point looked at the two candidates. Hillary bringing a long past of corruption, and scandal, a phony... A woman that many of us women would be ashamed of. Trump a businessman, with a big mouth, that will bring transparency, and would most likely shake Washington at its core. Which he has done. His agenda was very progressed, and he is delivering on it. You may not realize it, but he is making good on his promises. If he keeps solving problems and providing people with a better lifestyle, and the world becomes a safer place. There is no doubt he will win.
I have mentioned this in another comment I think it is important to repeat.
Many in my circle of friends were hardcore Dems, many have jumped the fence. Admitting Trump is doing a good job, and claim they will vote for him if he continues to solve problems. Common sense, as a rule, wins out over groupthink. As a rule, I don't make predictions. but if I had to make a prediction on the next presidential election. Trump will win without a problem. No one wants to go backward...Everything soon to be imprisoned or worse Bozo Trump touches does indeed turn to gold, FOOLS Gold that is:
"How Trump’s Casino Bankruptcies Screwed His Workers out of Millions in Retirement Savings"
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 … ankruptcy/Oh Jake, I missed you... Not sure you know the ins and outs of bankruptcy. I do know my brother-in-law worked for many years for Kmarts, and h lost all when they went bankrupt. I can't really comment on bankruptcy. Was Trump charged with breaking every bankruptcy laws? Found this article at one of the liberals trusted "Bible". sites...
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete … kruptcies/Oh believe me Sharlee01, I know everything there is to know about bankruptcy and you don't file for chapter 11 or 7 unless your ineptitude and corrupt motives drive your company(s) into the dirt and with it employees retirement savings, just like soon to be imprisoned Bozo Trump did several times over:
And now we get these phony GDP numbers from his lie prone white house and even if true, higher GDP does absolutely nothing for the common worker which he could care less about and that's a fact:
"Donald Trump's Many Business Failures, Explained"
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/don … 86091.html
Sharlee, I would say that "everything he touches" turns into something other than gold, but I will not elaborate.
You are an intelligent person, but there are a lot of intelligent people on either side of this debate. This is only going to be resolved based on which side has the greater number of people supporting their specific point of view.
I know that the states that Trump won that were critical to the Electoral College win have been traditionally Democrat strongholds, Penn, Mich, Wisc. But leave it to Hillary Clinton to ruin a free lunch. We will come back again with a better candidate in 2020, bringing those reliable democratic constituencies back into the fold.
I lean left politically and from an economic standpoint, so I am naturally going to distrust Conservatives generally, and Trump, in particular. Rather than this unorthodox, shake up the system hero, I see, basically, just another conservative having a coarse manner.
As for everything he has done and the things everybody gives him credit for, I remain skeptical with a "wait and see" attitude. I will give him credit where it is due, but it will be grudgingly and he will have definitely earned it.
"Common Sense" often times turns out not to be so common and may well not appear to be sensible, depending on which side of the looking glass you view things from. I do find conservatives irritatingly adhering to the lock step ideas and beliefs that characterize them. I consider that "groupthink".The stock market is setting new records. Unemployment is the lowest it has been in decades. The number of jobs is absolutely phenomenal. Both successful land unsuccessful illegal border crossings are down. Wages are up.
How long are you going to "wait and see" if his programs are successful? Until you can find one that fails (perhaps N Korea) and declare everything he touches fails?How long?
Until the end of his first 4 year term. I will then make my assessments of his accomplishments and failuresPromise? While everything is a total failure for now it can suddenly become a rousing success at a specific date? And will you be honest or will you use your intense dislike for anything labeled "conservative" to make the assessment with? (Better not use the "progressive" label, for he is "progressing" to a better country right now.)
Wilderness, I am using the same yardstick that you use in your assessment of progressives and progressive policies. Time will tell if what appear to be improvements now are not just a flash in the pan, will it last? "better" is also subjective...
It's simple. An opinion is a view or judgement formed about something that's not necessarily based on fact. A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. A narrative is a story.
When you express opinions as if they are facts, and use those "facts" to construct a story. Then point to individual examples that support your story, while ignoring a significant number of examples that contradict it, then you are creating a false narrative.
And I know you believe the false story that "mostly people on the left tend to be violent". That's why I highlighted it. You've tried to maintain that false narrative by doing all of the above, and have become hostile when I've pointed it out to you.
What confuses me about all this though, is how you can say this . . .
"I agree with you, right and left need to realize it' never good to generalize a group of people and insinuate negative attributes. It certainly furthers division(1)"
. . . and then say this . . .
"No as a rule liberal will not denounce the violent groups that turn up at the protest to cause trouble. Actually, they, as a rule, don't even see the problem with the vile left dog whistles. They compare, they deflect, they don't accept the reality of just how violent the far left has become. They seem to feel it's OK because they are trying to promote and an ideology that they accept as "something good". You know like no more straws, but plastic water bottles and the plastic lid's covering their coffee is OK... LOL And then there are the plastic syringes that they provide their junkies in San Fan. you know they would not want them to become ill from a germy needle. Guess it did not dawn on them a junkie is not the picture of health. If this was not so sad, I would be laughing..."(2)
If generalizing people is never good, why have you just generalized a large percentage of the population and projected negative attributes onto them? Why are you doing something you admit furthers division? Why are you making derogatory statements about me and good people that I know, as if those statements are proven true when they are not?
That comment is not merely expressing an opinion. It's a fabrication. An attempt to create a false narrative which furthers division. You have the right to do that if you choose. Likewise, I have the right to challenge such narratives where I see them. You may not like your false narratives being challenged, but that's not something I can help you with.
(1) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4014155
(2) https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4019058
Horse, could not have said it better. This president will go down as one of the very best at doing his job and doing it under great obstruction from the Democrat party. Trump makes it all look o easy too. Makes one wonder why we have put up with the previous status quo. His magic was, he was transparent, and he addressed the ugly problems we have been made to live with for some time. He promised to be a voice of the people. Yes, many politicians made the same promise. Trump is keeping it. And as a result, it is driving Dems crazy... All their politically correct BS has lost its momentum, and many saw it for what it was. BS.. Yes, there are many that still ascribe to the ideology of the Obama left, those are the herd mentality. They knew it was a popular herd to follow. However, they have not recognized the leaders of the herd have jumped the fence and left them to roam around and bump into one another.
Your president. Most of us didn't vote at all or voted for someone else. Put us together and you are a minority - and he is all yours.
" Found this article at one of the liberals trusted "Bible". sites...
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete … kruptcies/
"PolitiFact has drawn allegations of political bias from both left-leaning and right-leaning media outlets. Overall, right-leaning outlets get more negative results from fact-checkers than those on the left, including at PolitiFact, which some right-wing commentators have interpreted as evidence of bias." Wikipedia
What do you expect them to say? "Sucks. You caught us?
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