GM closes plants in several states. MAGA!

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   Randy Godwinposted 5 years ago

   Despite Trumps promises to the contrary GM announced it was closing several plants and firing thousands of employees including upper level management. This wasn't a huge surprise as GM announced last summer they were having problems selling certain models of their cars.
   
   
   So much for Trump's grandiose plans for bringing back manufacturing jobs to the US. Thoughts if any?

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      GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Sure Randy, I have a thought.
      
      Somebody better have duty watch on the president, or this Trump vs. business thing could get a lot worse. For him.
      
      GA

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      hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Most of us paying attention understand that Trump drives businesses into the ground.
      
      As stated, this wasn't a surprise due to GM restructuring, but the company has also sited big losses due to Trump tariffs. The same is true of Ford, and it looks like big layoffs may be on the horizon for that auto giant. I hope not.
      
      "Ford has already warned that President Donald Trump's auto tariffs have impacted the company to the tune of $1 billion, and the president’s trade policies threaten to play havoc with Ford’s ongoing reorganization, Shanks told NBC News.
      
      Ford will be making cuts to its 70,000-strong white-collar workforce in a move it calls a "redesign" of its staff to be leaner, have fewer layers, and offer more decision-making power to employees, the company announced.
      
      The number of jobs that will be axed is unknown at this point."
      
      https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ … it-n917756

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      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      GM announced they had a poor business plan in some of their cars - they are making cars that no one likes.  They are therefore discontinuing them and shutting down the plants producing those models.
      
      What does that have to do with Trump bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US?  Were those plants on other countries and now will never return?  Or was it just another opportunity to dig at Trump even if it makes no sense?

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         Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         GM used the tax breaks to buy back their stock as did other businesses which gained by Trump's tax cuts. Is it a dig at Trump because he lied about the new jobs coming back to the country? I suppose we shouldn't dare tell the emperor he's wearing no clothes?   
         
         
         Ford and other auto makers are hurting as well because of the tariffs, but apparently you don't know that.

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            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            "Is it a dig at Trump because he lied about the new jobs coming back to the country?"
            
            When speaking about a totally irrelevant matter and the dig comes out of nowhere, yes.  It is a dig, and one that made exactly zero sense in the context used.  The kind of crap that has caused me to pretty much avoid any mention of Trump or most political debates; to some people all that matters is to pop off about Trump, true or false, on topic or off.  Any excuse to complain about Trump, whether it makes sense or not.

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               Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               It's so good of you to be able to defend the cretin despite your dislike of mixing with us on the radical left, Dan. You are indeed quite a sacrificial lamb for the remaining Trump defenders. Why do you even lower your standards enough to comment on these forums? 
               
               You see it as "popping off" and I see it as reporting on the cretin you helped put in the WH. You got your opinion and I got mine....live with it, dude!

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                  hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  They are in melt down mode Randy. No criticism of the exalted one. They know it looks like the economy may be turning south and Obama's economy is the only win Trump could claim even among some of his own supporters. These guys are too far gone to ever admit Trump was a mistake or even does anything wrong.

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                  wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  And that's exactly why I walk away.  I did not defend anyone; I merely pointed out that your dig was irrelevant to the topic.  Whereupon you turn it into a defense of Trump; it's always - always - about demonizing the president whether that's the topic or not, and all the better when some name calling can be included.  But I don't try and converse with a 2 year old when they use the same tactics if that makes you feel better.
                  
                  You have a good one, Randy, feeding and growing your hate.

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                     promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Meanwhile, the far right is so full of love.

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                        wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Wouldn't know as I don't live there any more than you live in the far, radical left.

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                           promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                           LOL. Literally, I laughed when I read the comment.
                           
                           Some people think anyone who isn't far right is automatically a leftist.
                           
                           Hardly.

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                              wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                              Ummm...that's what I said.  Read it again, this time without an automatic bias against anyone you perceive as "defending" Trump.
                              
                              Unless you DO see yourself as radical left?

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                        Ewentposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Meanwhile, thanks to Trump's refusal to allow Tesla to enlarge it's manufacture of its vehicles, Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla has moved his company to China. How many jobs were lost by that?

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                     Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     As I've stated many times Dan, I'd have to have a smidgen of respect for the cretin before any hate entered the picture. What you don't like is my right to protest against what I believe is a criminal in the WH. You, on the other hand, helped put him there because of your hatred of HRC and Obama. See how that works?

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      promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      A relative of mine is one of the massive salaried layoffs at GM.
      
      You can thank the Trump tariffs. Car sales by U.S. manufacturers have plunged in China.
      
      https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ … rs-n940491
      
      Note Hard Sun's link about Ford as well.

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         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         If you're going to blame tariffs for the plant closures, don't you think it would be advantageous to give the number of those 6 models that were sold in China before and after the tariff war?  Or would that ruin the whole "blame Trump" thing?
         
         Or you might show that GM was NOT overloaded with white collar workers if it's only white collar workers losing employment.

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            hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I think a few of us stated that GM and Ford are restructuring and that has nothing to do with Trump..even the OP. But, both GM and Ford executives mention billion dollar tariff losses as contributing factors.
            
            The issue is that you refuse to see Trump's culpability not that others aren't acknowledging other factors play a role here.

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               "A relative of mine is one of the massive salaried layoffs at GM.
               
               You can thank the Trump tariffs."
               
               Really?  If you aren't blaming the tariffs for the salaried layoffs, how else can that statement be read?  Was the first, single, sentence a stand-alone, with the topic then changed to something else?

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                  hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  The companies are citing more than one factor for the layoffs. I am too. This isn't that difficult to understand. Why ignore one reason and not the other? Oh, because one reason comes back to Trump.
                  
                  I'm not even sure you're making an honest argument here. As Randy states, "trumping it" I guess.

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                  promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, really. I read it in the news and hear it from a GM employee.
                  
                  Where do you get your information?

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            promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not blaming tariffs. GM, Ford and Tesla are. And their sales prove it.
            
            If you're going to rationalize Trump's damaging tariffs, you might want to show how they are not triggering inflation, interest rate hikes, layoffs and other reported problems.
            
            But would that ruin the whole "defend Trump not matter what" thing? 
            
            https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/tariffs … study.html

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               "I'm not blaming tariffs. GM, Ford and Tesla are."
               
               GM, Ford and Tesla are blaming tariffs for the closing of plants that are producing GM cars no one wants to buy?  Are you sure about that?
               
               Can you provide quotes where I "rationalized Trump's damaging tariffs"?  Because I don't recall rationalizing anything, or defending anything either.  Just commenting that if tariffs are to be blamed for plant closures it might be wise to include data showing that it actually WAS the cause rather than the what GM stated; that the cars being produced there aren't selling anywhere.  Not in China, not in the US; nowhere.

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                  promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm sure that:
                  
                  - You are trying to excuse the tariffs by blaming the car companies for their own troubles.
                  
                  - They are saying like many other companies that tariffs are hurting their business.
                  
                  - They are laying off people.
                  
                  - Many prices are jumping because of the tariffs.
                  
                  - Interest rates are going up.
                  
                  - Inflation is climbing.
                  
                  Do you have information proving otherwise?

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     "You are trying to excuse the tariffs by blaming the car companies for their own troubles."
                     
                     Sorry, but GM said themselves they were shutting down car lines that they could not sell.  Not me.
                     
                     "They are saying like many other companies that tariffs are hurting their business. "
                     
                     While undoubtedly true, do you have any doubt whatsoever that VIP's of corporations in trouble will look desperately for anywhere to lay blame but on themselves?  That they will grossly exaggerate any harm in order to look clean themselves?  I hope not!
                     
                     As for the rest, can you find anywhere I have denied any of it?  No?  Then all you have to do is show that tariffs caused the shutdown of non-profitable car lines...which is what I said in the first place.  The rest of this is nothing but misdirection to change the subject from plant closures to anything you can find to ding Trump...which is also what I said.

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   You have to respect Randy and his party enlightenment for using GM as a shining example of a great American corporation under Trump , Obama handed GM a check in 2008 for 51 Billion dollars ,
   
   Thats a B $ Randy . Whats this? Impeachment # 672- 3- 4 ?

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   Hard  sun , $51 Billion [b] tax dollars swirls down the toilet with Obama's GM economy ?    As you profess Obama's involvement  in Trump's economy  you ignore the Obama {B} billions in loss ?
   
   Apparently the definition of hypocrisy was written by "libruls ".

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      hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Your number is more than a bit off. However, proving you wrong again with facts is getting boring. Obama's economy pulled us out of recession. Trumps economy, we are beginning to see the results of that. Either way, Trump is a joke

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   Good thing everyone here knows what the real joke is , the entire GM story ,  organized labor being the number one reason for GM's demise. In the real world GM would have closed their doors thirty years ago and opened a shoe factory in Vietnam.

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      hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      What happens when Ford layoffs go through? Why is Ford also losing cash and blaming it on Trump tariffs? Oh, never mind, nothing is Trump's fault. Carry on Ed.
      
      http://fortune.com/2018/10/09/ford-stoc … e-tariffs/
      
      Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs, Report Says

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   So you're suggesting that US auto company's eternal organized labor and income "loss "shenanigans is Trump's fault ?
   
   Uh huuuh .

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   All one has to do is be media fluent and you'd know that companies like Tesla , GM ,and Chrysler have had mega issues long before the left had Trump to blame for doing anything with those who took government funded growth , expansion or tax incentives .
   
   Tesla is the best example period of why our government [or any government ]should stay out of encouraging such a losing company's growth .

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      hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Whoa...hold up. How can anyone gain any real knowledge from the fake media?

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         Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         It's a typical Trump tactic, HS. You remember when DT called the economic figures under Obama fake then called them real under his admin.

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            hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Oh yeah, like unemployment numbers. Trumpin it, lol.

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               Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Exactly Don, it's indicative of the desperation Trump voters are enduring now so many scandals are piling up against their savior. It will get worse before even these few remaining DT fans slither silently away.

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   Readmikenowposted 5 years ago

   Okay, here is directly from the Associated Press reprinted in an Auto Industry blog.
   
   General Motors CEO Mary Barra
   
   The GM layoffs come amid the backdrop of a trade wars between the U.S., China and Europe that likely will lead to higher prices for imported vehicles and those exported from the U.S. Barra said the company faces challenges from tariffs but she did not directly link the layoffs to them.
   
   President Trump on Monday rejected the idea that tariffs he imposed on steel and aluminum used by automakers, or tariffs he erected against China and those with which China has retaliated, played a role in GM's decision. China is a crucial market for automakers. GM has said the tariffs have cost it $1 billion.
   
   “That's in relation to $6 billion in costs GM is trying to save in the restructuring.”
   
   https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/27/gm- … asons-why/

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      hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Nothing new here not already discussed in previous links. The company faces challenges due to tariffs is the key statement there. Plus, the trade war is one of the five factors for layoffs listed in your link.
      
      Plenty of blame has been put on Trump for that billion dollar loss for GM and Ford. Not directly linking layoffs to that due to there being other factors changes nothing. It's sort of like a baseball manager not blaming the pitcher for a 10-9 loss because they could of scored two more runs. It's a team effort.
      
      It does likely mean executives don't want to get into another Twitter war with the beloved leader. My bet is that happens anyway.

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         Readmikenowposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I disagree. I provided the only article with a response from the CEO of General Motors.  GM is being bested by its competition.  Hence, the restructuring.  THAT is the main reason for the layoffs.  It's important for a company to only blame itself for falling sales.  Playing victim to tariffs would be counter productive. Sort of like its important for a baseball manager taking responsibility for his team's poor performance and not blame other teams for being better.

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            hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            We're saying the same thing as far as why GM is not directly blaming tariffs. = It would be counter productive. There's no disagreement there. How much a role the tariffs, and their billion dollar loss plays in the layoffs is debatable.
            
            Even the OP acknowledges Trump tariffs aren't solely to blame:  "This wasn't a huge surprise as GM announced last summer they were having problems selling certain models of their cars."
            
            
            Ford is going through the same type of issues. So I'm not sure GM is being clearly bested by all its competition.
            
            As the link I shared states:
            
            "Ford is lagging behind the competition, selling an anemic 32.8 vehicles per employee. Long-time rival GM puts out 52.7 vehicles per employee."
            
            https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ … it-n917756
            
            It's not just GM and billion dollar losses don't help. I don't care what business you are in.
            
            And, Trump made a lot of promises about factory jobs and winning and such. This just doesn't look good for him and, being from the Midwest, I don't think even Trump and squirm his way out of political ramifications of this. That's true even if, legitimately, no blame should be put onto him. He set the bar.

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               Hxprofposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               "I don't think even Trump and squirm his way out of political ramifications of this. That's true even if, legitimately, no blame should be put onto him. He set the bar."
               
               Agreed. Trump has bragged about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US, so any losses in manufacturing make him look bad; if there are enough of these losses, he'll suffer politically.

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                  hard sunposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, all you have to do is mention the GM job losses to someone, and they bring Trump into the conversation. "But, Trump said..."

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   It's not tariffs  - it's just the politics of greed as General Motors , not in a positive financial state for some time , see's a clear way to receive even MORE government [tax dollar ] subsidies , tax breaks , stimulus dollars ..........where's the surprise there ?

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   Geee ,Poor GM , couldn't be anything to do with overextending could it ?
   

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    Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

    We're also obviously seeing the political weaponization of mfg companies because of their ownership  . It began with Facebook , Twitter , the  airlines in the NRA debate ,organized labor ,  If you don't think that politicization among the CEO's of these companies isn't happening , think again.................

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    Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

    You people must all have relatives who work for GM , unionized ,  tenured ,  making way too much $ per hour , too much in retirement benefits ,  and to expensive a product of poor quality in a higher quality foreign markets . GM's problems are of their own creation .

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    Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

    The reality is that ALL auto companies are retooling their entire mfg and sales towards the SUV / Truck lines as they are what the consumer demands these last couple of years ,  buyers are forgoing small and compact  for the larger more comfortable Truck and SUV lines , why ?    Fuel prices have remained under three dollars a gallon now for a few years , now nearing two dollars a gallon.
    Nobody wants a tin can for a family vehicle  , GM is just catching on to this trend , too bad for them !
    .

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