Wavering Black voters: Biden is flawed, but Trump is unacceptable

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  1. tsmog profile image84
    tsmogposted 3 months ago

    Wavering Black voters: Biden is flawed — and Trump is unacceptable by NBC News (Feb 29, 2024)

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e … rcna140786

    "Months of polling has shown a segment Black voters, a key part of President Joe Biden’s base, souring on his performance and growing more open to voting against the Democrat than in any recent presidential election.

    Yet a new focus group of undecided Black voters in North Carolina — specifically, Black voters who view both Biden and former President Donald Trump negatively at the moment — illustrates that while those voters are clearly dissatisfied with Biden, most of them also see Trump as an unacceptable choice."

    “I feel like it’s a lesser of two evils. It’s either a politician who is making attempts to do things for the entire country, or someone who’s just about themselves or their party, their particular party and their people.” — Candice D., a 44-year-old from Charlotte

    “I’m sure the numbers are statistically accurate, but they haven’t been statistically significant. If it was a significant change in those areas, then it would be obvious. We could all see it and we could feel it in our day-to-day lives.” — Michael G., a 54-year-old from Greenville

    “For a fact, I’m not voting for Trump. So if I don’t want to vote for Biden either, then my choice is to not vote.” — Shaleeya L., a 28-year-old from Gastonia

    So, what the heck is going on? Why?

    2020 saw the highest voter turnout in history. Will we see the lowest this 2024 election?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image89
      Sharlee01posted 3 months agoin reply to this

      It's true that historically, black voters have predominantly supported Democratic candidates in elections. This trend can be attributed to various factors, including the Democratic Party's advocacy for civil rights, social justice issues, and policies perceived to be beneficial to minority communities.

      In the case of the 2020 presidential election, Joe Biden, as the Democratic nominee, received significant support from black voters. This support was evident in both primary contests and the general election. Many black voters viewed Biden as a continuation of the Democratic Party's commitment to addressing their concerns and advancing policies that align with their interests. They held strong and backed Biden.

      If one can believe polls it is becoming evident that within the black American voting bloc,  some feel disenfranchised or dissatisfied with Biden's performance. Media has also recently been reporting that a segment of Black voters feel that their concerns have not been adequately addressed by Biden or his administration. Some feel his actions do not fully even align with their expectations.

      Source for my poll coment  -   "Black voter support for Trump up from 4% to 23%, poll finds President Biden secured overwhelming support from Black voters in the 2020 election, but a recent New York Times/Siena College poll shows support for former President Trump among Black voters has risen 19 points in the last four years. Puck News writer Baratunde Thurston joined CBS News to discuss why."

      https://www.cbsnews.com/video/black-vot … oll-finds/

      1. tsmog profile image84
        tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Yup, key is 'change'. Change is not static, it is dynamic.

        Just reading the headlines at the Google landing page (link next) is enough to open one's eyes.

        https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … +2024#ip=1

        One interesting video is next . . .

        Is Donald Trump Really Getting 22% of the Black Vote? YouTube (9:27 min)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSMJgsZy7yk

        1. Kathleen Cochran profile image77
          Kathleen Cochranposted 3 months agoin reply to this

          I wonder if they had higher expectations because of a black VP. When you expect a lot and only get moderate returns, disappointment can be more extreme.

          They have to ask themselves, though, what am I likely to get from the other guy?

        2. Sharlee01 profile image89
          Sharlee01posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          To be frank and concise, I don't anticipate a significant rise in black support for Trump in 2024. While he may have garnered some, I believe black voters remain predominantly aligned with the Democratic party. Instead, I foresee a shift towards more independent-leaning Republicans, as they tend to prioritize practicality and common sense, and no-nonsense folk.

    2. Credence2 profile image77
      Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

      That is the key, it is better to be disappointed by a friend than to embrace an intractable enemy. I remind them that this is not about neutrality. A Trump win and Republican policies on steroids is a guarantee to make things many times more difficult for our communities.

      We have to deliberately and in earnest select the lesser of two evils.... this is not the time to straddle the fence.

      This is a critical election, I think that there will be a record turnout.

      1. tsmog profile image84
        tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the input, Cred!

        I have my fingers crossed the turnout will be higher than 2020 especially in swing states. Your right, coming from the independent perspective, it is for me a choice between two evils, what ever that means as I reflect on a book I read; Beyond Good and Evil from the philosopher Nietzsche

        Using Wikipedia as a source, some discredit, so be it, comes;

        "In Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche accuses past philosophers of lacking critical sense and blindly accepting dogmatic premises in their consideration of morality. Specifically, he accuses them of founding grand metaphysical systems upon the faith that the good man is the opposite of the evil man, rather than just a different expression of the same basic impulses that find more direct expression in the evil man. The work moves into the realm "beyond good and evil" in the sense of leaving behind the traditional morality which Nietzsche subjects to a destructive critique in favour of what he regards as an affirmative approach that fearlessly confronts the perspectival nature of knowledge and the perilous condition of the modern individual."

        Beyond Good and Evil published at Wikipedia (Not a long read)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil

        1. Ken Burgess profile image75
          Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Hmmm... if I recall, he trashed Christian morality, and concepts of good and evil, by looking back toward early civilization that set what was to be considered good, moral, bad, evil.

          At the heart of it, he really came back to the ideals of success, the ability to provide and protect, and by extension maintain a cohesive society.

          It is not selflessness or altruism or weakness that is desirable, it is instead personal excellence.  Which I believe he referred to as Noble... or Master Morality.

          Constructive... build a better village, build a safer society... the opposite of which would be deconstructive, something that makes a village and its people less safe and prosperous.

          Consider America 2024 to America 2019... do things seem safer and more prosperous?  Are the actions of today's government making the nation, the world, a better place?

          Then again, when considering Slave Morality which he felt found its pinnacle in Christianity... one could argue that the weak, downtrodden, powerless Americans find in Trump their hero, as they oppose the powerful, the dominating ruling elites.

          One can see why the well-off and/or well-educated are vastly more supportive of today's Democratic Party and the Biden Administration over Trump.

          After all, Hillary Clinton aptly named his supporters the 'Deplorables'.

          That is who really supports Trump, the weak, the cast-off Americans that DC spends its days ignoring or trying to subjugate, creating more laws, more restrictions, more taxes to be imposed on them.

          1. tsmog profile image84
            tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Interesting! Thanks for the input. Appreciated. I am not sure if we are in agreement with what the book shared. Alas, such is life. Que sera, sera.

            Note: You realize you are the elite. Should I be wary of you?

            1. Ken Burgess profile image75
              Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

              We obviously have differing ideas of what an 'elite" is.

              However, I admit I have many flaws, one of which is not being able to turn my moral compas off.  If I had been capable of such, it is possible that I could have attained a level of success that could be considered within the realm of 'elite'ness.

              When dealing with anything related to State or Federal programs, the last thing, the very last thing that is acceptable is a person who insists funds and allocations go to where they are supposed to go.

              If you can be articulate, capable, and have a flare for putting together and understanding budgets you can go a long way in (and around) politics and make a lot of money, go to a lot of nice dinners with really well off people, live a nice life with a lot of perks.

              But you have to be willing to play the game, you have to be OK with a few million being misused here, a couple million being misspent there, cars and homes being paid for with monies meant to help those most in need, etc.

              If not... you can never be one of the 'elites' we have running the country today.

              1. tsmog profile image84
                tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                Okay . . . I was referring to the meaning of elite within the context of the social environment that has a governing agency, i.e. HubPages. In my view, the philosophy surrounding that remains the same with the meaning for 'elite'.

        2. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks, I always hold that in the world ofmsocieal,sciences there are rarely absolutes but that good and evil oftentimes could be subjective. Nietzsche seems to imply that good vs evil is not an absolute but could well be different variations of the same thing, either evil or good.

          In my subjective evaluation, the preservation of freedom and life is an absolute, but again there may be exceptions depending upon any number of varying circumstances.

          I consider those that are driving toward anti-democratic outcomes as evil. But for their standpoint, what I consider inevitable changes in any society, must be reined in or they will lose. That is their concept of what America Should be and should remain whether supported by popular sovereignty or not.

          1. tsmog profile image84
            tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the input. I think I understand what your saying and agree., perhaps, anti-democratic values may be placed in the evil bucket. I lean that direction.

            What stood out for me with the short intro from Wiki was, "Specifically, he accuses them of founding grand metaphysical [abstract] systems upon the faith that the good man is the opposite of the evil man, rather than just a different expression of the same basic impulses that find more direct expression in the evil man."

            Analogously, the impulse is to eat the meat placed before you at the dinner table. The evil man grabs the meat and devours it. The good man uses a fork and a knife. They both were ruled by the impulse, "I'm hungry". 

            Of course the book delves deeper and will  mess with your mind as it did mine having a few 'aha' moments along the way.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image75
        Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        That isn't supported by what he did his first 4 years as President.

        Trump Latinos - MAGA LOVE "Official Video"
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqkiq-MAIaM

        FREE TRUMP x Loza Alexander - (Official Music Video)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8CHMO7lZBE

        Trump Won - Natasha Owens (Official Music Video)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkA2_nijiyE

        Tom MacDonald & Adam Calhoun - "Your America"
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1uqe6GQdbU

        We'll see...

        1. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Instead of strident debate from our leaders and intellectuals, you offer me staged music videos? You will have to do better, Ken

          1. Ken Burgess profile image75
            Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Keeping it light Cred, keeping it light.

            I am pretty sure of where things are headed for Trump and his supporters.

            Not as sure as I am for other things, but confident enough.

            America is in a bad place, worse than its been in for near 50 years, when we had Carter and skyrocketing interest, the oil embargo... in some ways much worse.

            Quotes from George Washington:

            Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. When the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.

            But if the laws are to be so trampled upon with impunity, and a minority is to dictate to the majority, there is an end put at one stroke to republican government, and nothing but anarchy and confusion is to be expected thereafter.

            Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism.

            The Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government.

            All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

            The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism.

            It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

            Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.

            The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.

            Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government.

            Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

            END

            Some of what he speaks seems to refer to the very issues we see today.

            1. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

              "Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?"

              George Washington and a nascent America had the luxury of such thinking, do we really have that today?

              1. Ken Burgess profile image75
                Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                Those basic concepts would do us much better than the policies and wars funded and pushed by the Biden Administration today.

                1. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

                  Just like the concept of relegating and returning women to whale bone corsets, 2 and one half century have past and that aspect of the American past is simply irretrievable in the modern world.

                  I don't know that a behemoth like the United States can operate in splendid neutrality protected by two oceans? Sounds like the stuff of WWI, Ken. Nuclear weapons make the point that no one is really neutral nor can escape the resulting carnage of nuclear war. I think that since WWII, we have been involved in international affairs whether we like it or not.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image75
                    Ken Burgessposted 3 months agoin reply to this

                    President Biden, tear down those walls and let immigrants take jobs in high demand

                    Tyson has recently announced the closure of its facility in Perry, Iowa, which will result in the termination of employment for around 1200 American workers.

                    The company stated that while this plant closure was sad, they are looking to hire “asylum seekers" in other states like their New York location.

                    Statistics data show that there are some 63 million working-age (16 to 65) native-born Americans not working, unemployed or out of the labor market entirely. This is roughly 20 million more than in 2000.

                    The majority of those 63 million are 'less educated' workers most likely to compete with immigrants (legal and illegal).

                    There are 2.5 million fewer native-born Americans working than in November 2019, while 2 million more immigrants (legal and illegal) were working (that are being reported).

                    Those under age 29, and the less-educated, are the most likely to be in competition with immigrants.

                    A study by the economist George J. Borjas and others found that immigration reduces the employment of less-educated black men.

                    An analysis by Federal Reserve economist Christopher Smith found that immigration reduces the employment of U.S. teenagers.

                    Despite this, the Biden Administration supports giving work permits to illegal immigrants and increasing legal immigration even further.

                    Once given work authorization, illegal immigrants can compete for better-paying jobs now unavailable to them because they require background checks and valid Social Security numbers, jobs such as security guards, interstate truckers, and public sector employees.

                    This despite a record number of adults not working and wages unable to keep up with inflation.

                    "We are a nation of immigrants,” we are often told by the most affluent and educated segments of our society, who face the least competition from immigrants, "so we shouldn't restrict immigration or enforce our laws." they argue.

                    This ignores the very real harm to poorer Americans affected by current high levels of immigration.

      3. Kathleen Cochran profile image77
        Kathleen Cochranposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Credence 2: Newsweek today reported "Joe Biden Takes Stunning Lead Over Donald Trump in Two Polls" held by Reuters and Civiqs/Daily Kos. MSN said "it appears Biden might marginally beat his rival".

        Time will tell.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image66
          Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Okay.

        2. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          This is hopeful news, Kathleen.

          All my hopes for the desirable outcome.

    3. Miebakagh57 profile image66
      Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

      It's America and their America.

      1. tsmog profile image84
        tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the input!

        By 'their America' do you mean all races? Or, do you mean by 'their America' not your America?

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image66
          Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

          I mean: 1. All Americans born and bred in USA, or are living overseas, and are American citizens 2. Any person or stranger who is living in the Umited States for more than 5 years, and is familiar with the American culture or way of life, has apply for a  USA citizenship and grant approval.                                 These two classes are franchise to vote for any elective political candidates.

      2. Miebakagh57 profile image66
        Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

        To not to vote Trump or Biden, is outright foolishness.                                   So what's the purpose of the electoral franchise?                                   Black live, even white live, blue, red, and yellow live  matter. So again I ask what's the purpose of the electoral framchise?                                          In every United States presidential elections, two presidential candidates are usually present. And voters must decide for one. Blacks, go and vote wisely.

  2. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 3 months ago

    President Donald Trump's popularity with the black voter is in the increase.

    Black voter support for Trump up from 4% to 23%, poll finds
    President Biden secured overwhelming support from Black voters in the 2020 election, but a recent New York Times/Siena College poll shows support for former President Trump among Black voters has risen 19 points in the last four years.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/black-vot … oll-finds/

    1. Credence2 profile image77
      Credence2posted 3 months agoin reply to this

      Lets see if that actually comes out in the wash, it never has before...

    2. IslandBites profile image89
      IslandBitesposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      So the fake photos are working? Who knew?! yikes

      smile

    3. tsmog profile image84
      tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

      Gives cause to make on wonder Mike!

      Off topic, kind of, deflection - maybe, on the AI front comes along the article:

      Trump supporters target black voters with faked AI images by BBC (Mar 3, 2024)
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68440150

      "Donald Trump supporters have been creating and sharing AI-generated fake images of black voters to encourage African Americans to vote Republican.

      BBC Panorama discovered dozens of deepfakes portraying black people as supporting the former president.

      Mr Trump has openly courted black voters, who were key to Joe Biden's election win in 2020.

      But there's no evidence directly linking these images to Mr Trump's campaign.

      The co-founder of Black Voters Matter, a group which encourages black people to vote, said the manipulated images were pushing a "strategic narrative" designed to show Mr Trump as popular in the black community.

      A creator of one of the images told the BBC: "I'm not claiming it's accurate."

      The fake images of black Trump supporters, generated by artificial intelligence (AI), are one of the emerging disinformation trends ahead of the US presidential election in November."

      IMO, AI is completely up to the imagination of user/producer. Take a peek at the landing page for Google with the browser search phrase; AI 2024 election.
      https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … 4+election

      Then comes along the question of AI in relationship to free speech?

      If curious the article next is illuminating on that topic.
      AI and the First Amendment: A Q&A with Jack Balkin published at Yale Law School (Jan 29, 2024)
      https://law.yale.edu/yls-today/news/ai- … ack-balkin

      The questions asked with his brief answers follow:

      ** How does the First Amendment apply to AI-generated expression? Do artificial intelligence programs have First Amendment rights? Is the content AI generates protected by the First Amendment?

      ** How will works created by generative AI be treated under copyright law?

      ** How should governments regulate AI? Do we need a new government agency?

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 3 months agoin reply to this

        "But there's no evidence directly linking these images to Mr Trump's campaign."

        To me, this is all that's important as it show it is NOT President Donald Trump doing such a thing.

        1. tsmog profile image84
          tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

          Interesting you have no concern about AI usage in the 2024 election cycle.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image66
            Miebakagh57posted 3 months agoin reply to this

            Good point. But how significant is that?

            1. tsmog profile image84
              tsmogposted 3 months agoin reply to this

              Next, is the landing page for a Google search for the phrase, "threat of AI usage2024 election".
              https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … 4+election

              Go to the link and just read the headlines from governmental agencies, media organizations, and academic institutions. Pick and chose an article/study of your choice to read.

              The Google landing page link next is with the search phrase; "AI threat to Nigeria."
              https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … to+nigeria

  3. Miebakagh57 profile image66
    Miebakagh57posted 3 months ago

    Ex-President Trump's America First pays well when he build the Wall against illegal immgration, drug trafficting, thought he didn't complete the building.                                            But Joseph Biden with his Excutive Order policy tear the wall, for those illegal immgrants. This affect the employment of some native Americans. It's a pity indeed.                                  Recently, UK has step up her immgration policy by limiting the immigration of professional health workers.                                  For a country to open its boarder wide and free for all including criminals, besides asylum seekers, is bad.                                             Yes, I wouldn't blame Biden. He's doing the wish of his masters.

  4. tsmog profile image84
    tsmogposted 3 months ago

    Jim Crow 2.0: As US elections near, new efforts to suppress Black votes by Aljazeera rated by allsides bias as lean left (Mar 12, 2024)
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1 … lack-votes

    Seems, from reading the article the Black Vote gets hit from both sides of the aisle.

    "Similarly, the GOP’s efforts today are motivated by political gain, Albright said, although he acknowledged that the Democratic party’s leadership can at times be its own worst enemy. Speaking of Black activists working to turn out the Black vote, he told Al Jazeera:

    We get almost zero resources [from the Democratic National Committee]. They’ve got their favourite groups and white, male consultants. And Black groups end up contracting the same white consultants.”

    A double whammy as I see it.

    More, interesting information on the Black vote is Key facts about Black eligible voters in 2024 by Pew Research (Jan 10, 2024)
    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads … s-in-2024/

    ** Black Americans are projected to account for 14.0% of eligible voters in the U.S. in November,

    ** As of 2022, about half of Black eligible voters live in one of eight states.(Two are swing states - Georgia and at times Florida)

    ** About seven-in-ten Black people in the U.S. are eligible to vote

    ** Black eligible voters differ from the overall population of eligible voters by age, education and other factors.

    Thoughts?

 
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