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For Unhappily Married Men - Having Children Changes Everything, Kids Change Your Relationship with Your Husband

Updated on April 14, 2012

You're Not Alone

I posted a HUB not long ago called Affairs with Married Men, where I addressed an email I received from a married man's mistress who called herself "Lonely". I was pretty firm, pointing out all the reasons why she and her married liar are in the wrong, and why she should move on.

As a response to that HUB, I received many emails and comments from men. Unhappily married men, that said having kids changed everything.

Many of the emails and comments on Affairs with Married Men all described a similar scenario. A husband and wife get married. They have kids. They have debt. She changes, shifting her prioroty completely into mother-mode. The man gets miserable, and goes elsewhere for happiness.

"Angry Wife" said that they were living paycheck to paycheck, she was a stay-at-home-mom, and they had 4 kids when her husband left her for another woman.

"Fatal Attraction" said she didn't want her children being raised by strangers so she quit her lucrative career to stay at home with their 2 kids. Her husband left her for a woman that did what she used to do at work.

"Bill" related to the comments made by Lonely's lover about his wife: pitiful, clingy, and dependent. His wife wouldn't work but wanted to keep having kids and gave him a hard time for his long hours. He said he dreaded coming home, and finally left.

"Regret" said he had no idea what raising kids would be like. He was shocked by how expensive it was and by how their entire lives changed in every way. He claims he loves his kids but can not live like this. He's planning his escape.

"The Dog" said he and his wife were so happy when they first got married. Then everything changed once she insisted on having kids. She changed, her priorities changed, and their lifestyle changed. He said this isn't who he married and this isn't the life he signed on for. He said he refused to be stuck and left his wife.

"Carol" said she knows her husband has been having affairs since her first pregnancy when he stopped finding her attractive. Instead of confronting him about it, she decided the best thing to do was to keep having more children so he'd be tied to her forever. They now have 4 kids and he avoids coming home as much as he can.

I want to take this opportunity to point out the warning this should flag for all young couples. This advice comes too late for our Unhappily Marrieds above, but it's not too late for others to learn. When you commit your life to someone, that means you've discussed and agreed on what that life will be like. Having kids is a huge lifelong commitment that is not all pink puppies and giggles.

Kids are freaking expensive. They are constantly in need of attention, protection, money, support and guidance. It's 24-7 every single day for the next 18 to 22 years at the very least. By having children you've surrendered most of your personal freedom, your indiscretions and your wild side. You have completely accepted the burden, cost, and commitment to:

Handicaps, learning problems, no more sleep, behavior problems, braces, soccer uniforms, getting your ass to scouts, games, car seats, mini vans, grandparents, getting up, snow days, sick days, school buses, PTA, play dates, concerts, runs to the mall, doctor appts, sickness, messes, big awful plastic toys all over your once-pretty living room and lawn, going to water parks instead of Vegas, getting to know Elmo and Bobpants or whatever the fuck that is, G rated, Disney, other people's children and their birthdays and problems and issues... sex talks, cell phones, internet predators, pot smoking, piercings, being called old and out of it, coming out, growing up, getting off, music you can't understand, goth, goth boyfriends, pregnancy, AIDS, school shootings, driving tests, insurance, cars, boys in cars, girls with tramp stamp tattoos, eating disorders, cutting, bullying, curfews, grades, college...

And there's no guarantees. Your kid could be special needs. Medically challenged. A behavioral nightmare. He could bully, or be bullied. She could get pregnant. He could deal drugs - out of YOUR home. She could drive drunk and kill someone. They could (COULD) could cost you everything. And even the best behaved most wonderful kid costs you oodles of money, time, thought, energy, responsibility and commitment.

Once you have a kid, you are no longer the first person you get to think about. Period. Every decision, every penny, every inch of your life is now theirs.

Really think about this before you have kids. Agree on your ideas and plans. Will you both work, can you afford for one of you not to, consider day care, and school, and what your house is going to be like, and cost. Think about no more motorcycles or vacations, or whatever sacrifices you really are going to have to make, and be on the same page with your partner.

I can almost guarantee you that the people that wrote in did not consider all of the above. Look, there are many lifestyle choices that you are free to make. To have or not to have kids is one of them. Kids change everything.

As you can see from the recaps above from those comments and emails, in general it's the men that want out, that don't find their wives attractive once they become mothers, that are feeling the financial stress, that are miserable. Is that always the case? I'm sure it isn't. But this is what I have to work with here, these are the people that responded to the HUB.

Angry Wife made several excellent points in her comment. One of which is that maybe she'd feel differently if her ex husband was at least supporting her and their kids, but he hasn't sent a penny since he left. I'm starting off my advice with that point. Running away from the problem doesn't actually resolve it. Guys, the mistress seems stress-free and wonderful, but the reasons you're leaving your wife aren't just going to disappear if you go. Eventually dead-beat dads get caught. Is prison really going to be better than the life you have now? Stop dreaming and own your shit.

Bill, you asked for advice and here it is. FIX IT. It's too late to *think* now about whether or not you want or can afford kids. It's just too late to discuss this. So fix this moving forward.

First thing you have to do is sit down with your wife one on one. Hire a babysitter and take her out. Sit her down and tell her the truth. Tell her you're fucking miserable. You CAN NOT live like this and you feel so strongly about this that you have contemplated leaving. She can't dismiss this. Make her hear you.

Once you have her real and true attention to the seriousness of your state of mind, let her know that you aren't leaving. You made your bed and you're going to BE A MAN and lie in it.

List out all the things you hate about your life. I'm serious. Hey, you're contemplating leaving her. Telling her you don't like her housecoat is mild in comparison. Whatever all your gripes are, list them out. Even the ones that are selfish, unrealistic or mean sounding. Just do it. And encourage her to do it too. This isn't going to be easy. Brutal honesty is your only way to go at this point. And this is going to take time. If she wants to save the marriage she will let you get this off your chest. Then you can begin to compromise and work together as a team. Your problems are her problems. And vice versa.

One of two things needs to happen once you admit these things. One is that you will make the sacrifice and suck it up. Or two is that she will. At the very least you can work together. You will see that there is a side to everything you don't like, that you haven't considered.

For example, when you were dating her she made an effort to look great for you. She did her hair, her nails, her toes, and her make up. She got dressed in cute little outfits and jewelry. Now she doesn't. Your attraction for her is waning. Well, once you admit this to her, she can admit right back to you, that she used to have an hour to herself every morning to primp and fluff and get dressed. Now she doesn't. BINGO. Maybe you can go into the office an hour later every day, and give her that alone bath and beauty time. You take the kids completely for one hour every morning. Make it two hours and let her run to Curves and have a coffee in peace, too. Maybe she is just as upset about her looking frumpy as you are! Maybe verbalizing this and her having this special time every day will really be great for both of you. She will enjoy taking pride in herself and looking good again and this self confidence will spark other changes.

If you have some financial freedom, addressing necessary changes will be easier. Hiring a nanny, a maid, or a one day a week babysitter will bring incredible relief. You may have decided day care was not for you before you had kids. But now you are seriously contemplating LEAVING YOUR WIFE. Hello. That's much worse than daycare. You have to reconsider that decision for your sanity.

I strongly recommend seeking outside help. You may both be too close to the matter for real clarity. I highly recommend couples therapy. If finances aren't flowing, I highly recommend you make an appointment with a credit advisor and you sit down together and figure out what the hell you're going to do. Downsize your house, sell off stocks, make a budget and stick to it. Maybe she can go back to work and you can utilize daycare or a grandma that's willing to help. Maybe if you move your office to the house that will save overhead. Whatever you need to do, DO IT.

If you attempt these things and they don't work, or if your wife refuses to try to work with you, then make an appointment with a lawyer. Bill (et al), you can't just leave your kids. If you really have exhausted all other possibilities and there is no way this can work, then go to a lawyer. You can't just run.

When you put time and energy into a mistress and your own happiness, you are taking time and energy away from your family. It's not fair to anyone. It's a poor response. It makes you an ass. You made the mistakes. You have to fix them.

Marriages are partnerships. Partnerships involve compromise. And sacrifice. You may have made some really bad decisions that you truly regret. And if you are in that situation, I'm sorry for you. If one of you is unhappy, then both of you bear that burden. And you have to work together to find the compromise that will get you through.

If you like this HUB please click the “Thumbs-Up” below just before the comments.


All text is original content by Veronica.

All photos are used with permission.

All videos are used courtesy of Youtube.

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    Tricked 5 years ago

    If you have an overbaring female spouse that has a high degree of mommy hormones, she can become blind to the fact two people created the kids and the Dad should not be spun-off like waste product. Let's face it, when mommy is lactating and trying to make-up for some of her own childhood issues, Dad is often left out of the picutre - surprizing that Dad still needs the same level of interaction that attracted him to the future mommy. Dad is left if pleasing himself - surprize new woman or disfunctional relationship. Women should come with a warning message. Get married, have kids, horomones will change, original person you married changes into cold sexless monster.

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    break up books 6 years ago

    The reality is very sad. There are warning signs as you say. Relationships and marriages need to have just as much work put into them as raising children, we often forget this and they take the sidelines. It is hard to find the energy sometimes.

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    not4sissys 6 years ago

    Veronica,

    Great article! Loved it! It's timeless and...it's honest. Truth is marriage, and children, are NOT for everyone...nor should it be.

    *long winded and full of gramatical errors alert. anyone who doesn't have the stomache for it should stop reading this now*

    If you are unhappily married with children it IS ALL your fault. The truth is, marriage and family life doesn't suck...you do! Why? Because you made a bad decision for yourself and for your spouse when you agreed to what you agreed to. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it isn't you that is at fault. Maybe your wife is the one that sucks...but for sure if you are hating on your marriage one OR both of you sucks!

    When I was 22 going on 23 I had a talk with my bf of 3.5yrs. I told him how much I wanted a husband AND I wanted children in my life; I wanted to raise a family AND I wanted to do that WITH HIM. BUT!! if that wasn't what he wanted too then I had to leave...it was my bottom line for MY life. As much as I LOVEd him and WANTed him to share this with me it HAD to be something that he WANTed to do WITH me too...because he LOVEd me. We discussed how we wanted to raise our family BEFORE we got married. Fortunately for us we were from different religious backgrounds and because he wanted a church wedding we were required to take marriage classes which covered children, finances and how we should handle disagreements without causing the other partner any harm. Just before we took our vows, during one of our final classes we discussed infidelity issues. I was shocked!!! when the priest said to us that we each have a free pass on ONE cheat in our marriage, on the condition that we never tell our spouse about our indiscretion, however, if we were to cheat a second time we were required to share this knowledge with our spouse. I hated the idea that he was telling us that it was okay to have a one-night-stand but at the same time I was amazed at the very accepting and honest insight into what human nature is.

    Monogamy is a choice, and because it isn't natural that is why it is a choice. Marriage by definition is about monogamy among many other things BUT monogamy is a paramount hallmark of marriage. Marriage is about love and about respecting that love. Making and raising children is about love and respecting that love. Marriage AND raising a family is also about devotion and occassionally making SOME sacrifices. IF, I couldn't devote myself or make SOME sacrifices I am sure that I would NOT want to be married to ANYONE! nor them to me...EVER!!

    For ME, marriage is the framework for the creation of a family. For ME, family includes children from that union. For ME, a couple is NOT a family, they are a couple who for now and perhaps always do love one another but do NOT require a framework that has any legal definition. For ME, marriage without kiddies is so completely unnecessary. For ME, people who do NOT want children should do what is obvious, put an end to Russian Roulette and get sterilized. NO kid should have to be raised by people who don't want them around and resent them and resent the other parent. Children are a gift and a privilege as is your's and your spouse's love. If you don't want kids...GET FIXED!!!

    I have been married for 32.5 yrs and we have 3 amazing (no not extraordinary rocket scientist kids we can brag about(bragging is so VULGAR! EWW!) kids that are all grown up now...I loved every stage of their developement...including, and yes!! especially this one!

    Our eldest is getting married in a year's time and yes it's exciting but I want to know that I have talked to him and to his lovely about the real version of marriage and of raising a family AND about devotion and SOME sacrifices that must be made and NOT just the romantic fairytales that the movie industry pumps out. I want him to be happy and I want his lovely to be happy whether that be together or apart...I want to know that I did my job, as his mom and as her MIL-2-B, and that I told them "where it really is at". Them and their decisions are theirs to make and for me to respect and support. If either one of them has ANY doubts about what they want, they have an obligation to put marriage and babies on the back burner or to leave the relationship at the earliest. I had to do this in my first relationship with my first fiancée. We wanted similar but not the same things from our lives and so it was obvious that we were not meant to be together in matrimony. I struggled with this decision, trying to talk myself into going into this marriage because I loved him soo soo much BUT I knew that I wouldn't be happy meeting the conditions he asked me to meet. Instead of trying to negotiate with him another, albeit similar, plan would have been unfair of me, he should have his life exactly the way he wanted it to be and as should I. We both married other people and we both LOVE our spouses and the families we created with those wonderful people. I do carry a love for my ex-fiancée 'til this day. I love that he got what he wanted and what he needed in his life to share with a loving wife and children and the career he wanted. I know he is fulfilled. Letting go of him and our dreams was ALL ABOUT LOVING HIM and it was so easy to do once I realized how selfish and destrucive it would have been to marry him and fall into the unavoidable misery we would have caused for one another because our dreams just didn't mesh. BTW, we were only a couple of lusty teenagers (17 and 18 yrs old) who mistakened what we were feeling for each other as LOVE...we were young and didn't know any better. I still marvel at how wise I was at that tender age to know that loving him so so much meant giving him the life he deserved...without me.

    No one ever gets married thinking "this is going to make me absolutely want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger til I'm dead miserable"...and if you eFFing do...well...WTF is wrong with you??!!!!! You are making the choice (unilaterally) to remove any potential for happiness and contentment for yourself, for your spouse and if there are any...for your children. You are pissing away precious time that CANNOT be restored from your spouse and you are like a childish ________ and a coward!

    If marriage isn't for you, own it! Make a sign and wear it proudly! Display it for all to see and watch all those potential "I want a ___ and I want children and I want to raise a family...WITH YOU" hungry love in their eyes for you only, step aside. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and OWN IT!!

    Marriage is NOT for sissies.

    Thanks for allowing me to say my piece. Peace out brothers and sister.

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    ctbrown7 6 years ago

    Veronica, I think you really hit on a sensitive subject. Bottomline: no one is responsible for the choice to have children but the parents. I amazed by how many people on here are blaming others for having children. Sure, you can no longer be selfish--but last time I checked anything truly worthwhile didn't involve selfishness.

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    Sally  6 years ago

    Great Article Veronica. My husband walked out on our marriage after our first born with a younger women with no responsibility and of no child rearing age. As soon as the baby was born he did nothing to help me out with anything and instead invested all his time and energy on his mistress while I worked full time and my baby was just a newborn. I think there is a major problem in society at the moment and that is that men just need to grow the hell up. Women are always left to pick up the peices of them whinging and screwing around and being self centred arses. Womens life change to when the baby comes along, you don't see us looking for a man half our age to run away from our responsibilities.

    These men are just immature, childish and selfish and unfortunatley the children suffer the most. No child wants to know he or she was born in wedlock and wanted to only have the father abandoned him or her at birth for the sake of his penis.

    These women that have affairs with these coward peter pans are just as bad.

    So over hearing about it, it makes me sick.

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    Emma 6 years ago from Houston TX

    Great article.You really made a lot of point.thanks for sharing.

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    Hank 6 years ago

    If people were truly unselfish when it came to being parents they'd adopt. I agree most people have biological children because they can't stand the idea of not spreading their DNA genes around. They say they want someone to give their love to, to cherish and raise, yadda yadda. That's all well and good but the fact is there remain thousands of children in this country alone who have no parents. But no one wants those rejects. The adults want their own little baby, not someone else's kid. So parenting really is a selfish endeavor if you think about it.

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    Lo 6 years ago

    Hey well my comment to Lynn.. is that WHO has children for unselfish reasons? I cant think of a more ridiculous thing to tell another human being, that making life choices that are right for them is "selfish". Wow, so all those parents who pooped out kids did it for the betterment of society and the planet...riiiiight. Most people I know had kids because they 'wanted' them and isn't that the epitome of being selfish? Nothing wrong with it but let's call it what it is! Someone wanted to be a mom,wouldn't feel complete without it, wanted that nice white picket fence, etc etc. I think it's nonsense when woman are pressured to have kids when they didn't want them. I am in same boat as you Lynn as i never wanted them and never will. Difference is I am ten years older than you so have had more practice coming up with good answers to nosy nasty questions like you get. "Since when is my reproductive status any of your business?" is one. Also, "I can't have kids" can shut most poeple up and they don't need to know the truth. I joined some organizations on line that support childfree people. My friends are now raising older kids and some of the ones who used to push the hardest for me to have kids now tell me they regret being that way. They can see I'm happy and have a nice life and am content with my choices. I have lots of freedom and income. They are dealing with teenagers and saving for college and having no privacy, plus their marriages are almost always impacted but they'd be hard pressed to admit that. I don't look down on anyone for raising a family, I just ask for the same respect they would want from me. We can disagree that it's "ALL WORTH IT" without putting the other down. Finally, I ended up here after doing a google search for why married men cheat on their wives. I am not married but remain fascinated by why marriage is so fraught with problems in our society and why so many people opt out of their marriages. This Hub was very eye opening and I thank the author for this insight.

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    Lynn 6 years ago

    Hi! I happened across this website when I was looking up how children affect a relationship. I am a 28 year old female and I have NEVER wanted children and am adamant about it. A lot of it really had to do with how much I had to take care of my own siblings growing up because my parents were really disfunctional at the time. The responsibility that was put on me at such a young age with caring for my siblings REALLY turned me off from children. I learned young how much of a sacrifice it is.

    It sucks now though because not having children at my age is an extremely alienating and persecuted lifestyle. From around the age of 24 up until now there has been a nonstop slew of my friends having children. I have always been the type that didn't feel I was obligated to have children especially if I truly knew what I wanted for myself. I can totally relate to this article however I am not married but engaged but me and my fiance have definitely expressed how we do NOT want children.

    I am also the type too though that understands the outcomes of sex. Having sex can potentially lead to a child so I always told myself if by some divine intervention I was to become impregnated so be it. But i would NEVER willingly try for a child. I already feel like I have raised children and I am so glad I now have just ME to focus on. Also you are so right about potentially having a child with disabilities my sister got pregnant when she was 18 (young and in love and thinking a child would bring her and her boyfriend closer) my niece is autistic and my sister and her boyfriend are married now but not only does having the children put a strain on the marriage but also too now having to tend to a disability. It is definitely something to think about and consider when planning on having children.

    Lastly the biggest thing I hate about being childless is when people say that I AM SELFISH for not wanting them. If anything I feel a person who puts that much thought into something and can rationally weigh the consequences of an action is NOT selfish but just a critical thinker. Which is what half of these parents out here FAILED to do. I would much rather choose not to have kids then to have them and end up hating them and treating them wrong.

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    Author

    Veronica 6 years ago from NY

    Thank you very much, Bronson_Hub. I really appreciate this.

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    Bronson_Hub 6 years ago from San Francisco, CA

    The amount of forethought this article inspires is something everyone must consider before deliberately having children. To improve the quality of the world and the quality of our lives, we must make it so our offspring surpass us and create an environment that fosters improvement over generations past. Since the government will never do an adequate job of completely solving our problems for us, we must participate in creating a society where we consider the consequences of our actions. Sometimes we do not know who to consult or to talk to before asking our decisions. Public articles like this with testimonials serve well to fill that gap. Thank you, you've made a big difference by voicing this. Excellent article.

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    Bev 6 years ago

    Oh my God in Heaven..I am so grateful to have found this page and all these posts. They echo my exact feelings and sentiments. I confess to feeling so guilty that I found happiness only after a seperation from the father of my children. We had a good five years prior to having kids. Once the first kid came along, I gave up my job and stayed home. At first I was going to be a super mom, but as it turned out, I was poorly suited to the job. I resented that my husband got to "keep" his life while mine changed drastically. I put on weight and became very depressed. He grew more and more frustrated at how unhappy I was. At the time I blamed him for a lot but now I realize that I was in mourning for my past - my young body, well-paid job, nice wardrobe, after-work drinks with girlfriends. I loved my son, don't get me wrong, but so much about what I loved as an adult person seemed ripped away from. No one really lets you in on this little secret until it's too late! So I got on antidepressants and muddled through. By my son's third year I was pregnant again. My second pregnancy was very complicated and I ended up on bedrest for a time. My husband was very resentful at having to do so much of the chores and housework. At the same time, I was furious at him. He aacted like I was on some kind of vacation, Meanwhile, I was bored stiff and hurting all over constantly and still having to attend to my little one when he wasn't in preschool. We got some hired help but then my husband complained about the money we were spending. It seemed like al we did was fight and by the time I birthed my second son I felt more like we were survivors of a war as opposed to a loving couple. Once #2 was in the world things smoothed over for a bit, but I remained sort of sub-par with regards to depression and I never did lose the baby weight from #2. I finally got frustrated with my husband staying late at work all the time and confronted him ...suspecting an affair. It was all too true and the hurt drove a deep deep wedge between us. Now we were bitter with each other. Where once it seemed we at least tried to talk things out, or make up after fights, now we were just overtly hostile. I finally realized I needed to go back to work if only to save my sanity. We used my paycheck to pay for daycare and therapy. That's how I justified it. I was slowly going insane but bit by bit, we patched things up enough to function. That's where we stayed at for years. Functioning. Not really angry at each other, but not in love either...or even in like. Just kind of bland. Like roommmates, but worse because you know it should't be that way. To his credit, my then husband started stepping up to the plate and spending more time with the kids, doing more around the house, but it was too little too late. I was broken somehow. We didn't talk divorce until we had this one moment, on a family vacation, where it just felt so awkward taking a picture together. I think we both realized we'd just realy grown apart and that faking it was no longer an option. We spent about three months talking it over. We divorced soon after. I am not saying divorce is the answer for everyone, but once the dust settled I was a new woman. I literaly and physicaly felt the weight lift from me. I relished my newfound freedoms. Did I miss family life at times? Sure, during holidays it was hardest. But most of the time it just felt like a rediscovery of me! Who I was, the woman behind the "MOM" label. I became more outgoing. I was able to decorate my condo the way I wanted to. My ex is responsible for his time with the kids. I don't have to supervise all the time and he can't foist things off on me all the time. They're his kids too and now he's forced to take up more of the slack. We are still not great friends but at least we're civil, we don't fight like we once did and we're less cold towards each other. I know he's dating and that's fine. I hope to meet someone soon. I feel healthier and sleep better, I have a voice again. Anyway, I agree with so many stories here. I hope mine helps someone.

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    RemarriedMom 6 years ago

    I agree with you Maria. I divorced 5 years ago, remarried, and the kids go to their dad's every other weekend for 5 days. My husband does not want his own kids and has a pretty good relationship with my kids. My ex's girlfriend and ex love seeing the kids but are happy to give them back after the 5 days. My hubby and I love our days 'off.'

    Married with kids is somewhat impossible. We evolved brains that tell us to mate and move on. The sexual attraction and romance usually dwindle and spouses end up like roommates. The never-ending stress of the household and kids- cleaning, cooking, bathing, disciplining,entertaining, educating, providing financially, etc- often creates daily misery, boredom, and stress for the once madly in love carefree couple.

    On top of the daily grind stress is the proclivity for us humans to want to mate, reproduce, and move on to a new partner. We evolved this way and it's a struggle to fight it.

    Tough situation for many.

    Some escape through affairs. Some divorce. Some stay married and suck it up.

    No easy answers.

    In my case, I took the leap and divorced. All in all, it has worked out for the aforementioned perks. Plus aim more financially stable as I have a new partner who contributes financially plus my ex who is good about giving child support.

    My ex does sometimes miss us as a family but he said he felt neglected, unloved, and unromanticized in the marriage. I always remind him just how tired, drained, and lost to myself I felt back in those early years when the kids were very young. I was just trying to get by day by day.

    It was a tough situation and we decided to split. Now I have to say, there just seems to be a whole lot more oxygen in the air for all of us.

    There wasn't enough oxygen before and we both felt like we were suffocating.

    I asked my kids the other day if they wished dad and I were together. They said no...they would miss their stepdad and his girlfriend too much.

    So in my case, my kids' tribe expanded and so far so good.

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    Marie 6 years ago

    I don't know a single couple that seems happy with the married + kids lifestyle. Honestly, they seem happier divorced 95% of the time and here's why -- you get ADULT ONLY TIME! Moms can never have a kid-free weekend until the kids go visit dad at his house. Suddenly she can have a life again. Also, even if fincances become more difficult, it seems the mom and dad get along beter and work more as partners. A lot of tension seems to dissipate. This is just based on my own personal experience, but after watching about 2/3 of my friends go through divorces I can only conclude they are happier than my married friends. The kids seem to adapt. Some of them are in therapy but I think they would be because it's the 'thing' to do now. I am divorced myself and I think it benefitted me tremendously. The kids are doing fine, both in college. We divorced when they were adolescents adn despite some bumps, I think we all were MUCH happier. The air was no longer thick with miseray in our house. Everything was out in the open. I got back into dating, had time to go to the gym, got promoted at work because my ENERGY level was so much better and I felt rejuvenated. Seriously, best thing I ever did. It hink marriage is antiquated. I think legal partnerships for the purpose of raising kids make more sense, with the workload and finacnes equally divided.

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    Anna 6 years ago

    This is a good article to read and talk about with the husband.

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    Tom 6 years ago

    I am a father of four and both wife and I are very good parents. So far kids are doing very good although we have a long road to go. Issue with us is we don't love each other anymore. We are still good friends but we have no romantic relationship at this point. I tried the honest approach and we went for counceling and none of it had am impact. The bottom line is for now we stay married for the sake of the kids. Not sure I could take the chance to mess up the kids life just so I could have a sex life again. At some point I am sure that I will leave but don't know when. Wife looks to blame someone or something but not sure their is any blame. Sometimes two people just change and decide that they want different things in life. For now I enjoy the kids and dream about my future.

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    not white trash 6 years ago

    I love this post, very true, my husband asks me why I"m putting weight on....Nothing to do with the fact he insists on eating out most nights to "treat me" and bring junk food into the house. Am I the only one that when single didn't have junk food in the house, then the man comes brings the junk food into the house and wonders why you eat it and get chunky? And oh the horror if you say honey can you please not bring rubbish into the house its not good for either of us..."i'm not fat you are" is the response...thank god we haven't had kids yet. I'm still trying to get him to grasp the concept that no fast food is good fast food for a child. Apparently he wants me to have diabetic children from the diet he thinks is acceptable for a child, one his parent would never have allowed him to consume.

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    All of you were babies once... 6 years ago

    The "men" who wrote in, probably were all about having children with their wives and didn't want to own up to the responsibility that was required of them. Today "men" aren't men but a bunch of whining selfish imbeciles. Instead of manning up and being a father....they run.

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    mandatory retirement 6 years ago

    I have 3 grown children & grandchildren. It's true. Your whole life becomes their life. If you are a REAL parent,

    you will sacrifice your whole being. When it's time, take your time that you earned.

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    Brad 6 years ago

    K - I've also been married for almost 20 years and decided young that I didn't want kids. The trade off is that my wife and I have been able to travel to over 25 different countries & we have money. Although were not rich, we've managed to pay off our house, cars & credit cards. Still, lately, I've had deep regrets of not having kids. I think I would make a great Dad & could share so much, but my wife can no longer have children. I see all my friends with kids going to birthday parties, sports games and I envy them. It is especially difficult over the holidays because the house seems so empty. Maybe people just want what they don't have? Maybe we just feel the grass will be greener on the other side? I just don't want to die in some nursing home alone.

  • Tara_in_NE profile image

    Tara_in_NE 6 years ago

    Actually that's not a bad strategy, Alex. It weeds out ninety-plus percent of the desperate dingbats who want children for the sake of having children (because their friends are having them) and would throw you on the back burner (or worse-to the curb) once their mission is accomplished.

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    Alex 6 years ago

    Women often push guys to have children. I make it very clear to every woman I date, I in no way ever want children. Most guys however do not do this and end up being suckered into it.

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    Shorey 6 years ago

    Having young children is torture and hell. There is no other way to put it. My DH escaped it daily by going to work and then staying late so he could come home after the little demons were in bed. I really hated being trapped and having all my freedoms taken from me, you really don't realize what it's like until it happens to you. My complaints fell on deaf ears.He continued to have his fishing and hunting weekends with the 'boys' just like he did before with the comments that since I was supported financially by him he had a right to a 'relaxing weekend'. Where was MY relaxing weekend? It was just assumed that the kids were in my charge and if I wanted to go shopping or have lunch with friends I needed to handle finding a babysitter. He changed so much after the kids came, went from being helpful and supportive to acting like he hated being home and that I was just a big pain in the ass allthe time. Nothing makes a woman feel more unattractive than a man who gives off the vibe that you are no longer interesting to him but now just a chore. Everyone talks about how the woman changes into a 'moomoo' wearing frump. Well years of no sleep, doing all the childcare and NEVER getting a break, having no money or time leftover for yourself, see what that turns you into! He still dressed nicely, had time to go to the gym after work, spent hours playing games on the computer, slept in on weekends. Yeah I should have known thisbefore marrying him but trust me, he acted COMPLETELY different. He used to treat me like an equal, not a slave. I had an affair when our kids were in school. I am not sorry and first chance I get I'm leaving him.

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    Kay 6 years ago

    Having kids is not easy- but it's worth it. I can't say that it ruined my marriage, but I'm sure it had something to do with it. You left out one very important factor in the having kids rant- and maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but becoming a parent forces you to grow up. My husband did not take the grow up ball and run with it. In fact he did the opposite, and still does. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He lay down in the middle of the playing field with his head resting on the ball as a pillow. I had taken full responsibility for my kids aand he became the big brother. What ended up happening was that I was doing everything, all the hard stuff and he was "fun daddy" teaching them to fart in the tub among other idiotic childish behaviors. Rather than teaching them to be nice boys, he was teaching them to be animals who would spit in public. Everything he teaches them, I have to undo immediately. It's exhausting. And during these 7 years of child rearing we spent together, I was supposed to be turned on by him? Why, because he was so mature? Please. I see your point, but it wasn't about me looking frumpy or not having time to get dolled up for him. I'm sure u were not speaking for every case, because mine looked nothing like that before I got rid of the bum.

    I suppose some guys cannot handle the huge responsibility of being a dad. You are right though, to warn them. I hope they listen to you.

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    Deployed Again 6 years ago

    Military are especially prone to this problem, with both the soldier and the spouse. Here is the answer that we as a deployed army culture have discovered. WALK AWAY while you still have some sort of common ground.

    There are a lot of military men and women that tolerate cheating and money wasting spouses because they want to see their kids when they come home. We don't have a lot of options because for us, male or female, our spouse can say we are dangerous, and we lose custody.

    We understand, some of us are that cheater, and some of us are the cheated on. Imagine that you want to get out, leave and run away. Okay, then do it. But to keep the other party waiting on your decision to leave is criminal, you are wasting your life and theirs. Discuss child care and move on.

    I came from a broken home, my parents divorced when I started my teens. This is also very common in the service, people from broken homes. One thing that I have observed by talking with a lot of soldiers (and I mean in my career we are talking 100 or so soldiers in direct contact with me) that came from that divorced separated family is that NONE OF THEM were fooled by their parents, they were all well aware that their folks had problems.

    So get away from each other, get healthy and restart your life. But don't walk away from your kids. Wanting to leave a spouse is common. Wanting to run away from being a father or mother is disgraceful. So think carefully about which one you are running away from, and if the shoe fits, hang your head.

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    Veronica 6 years ago from NY

    Thanks for your comment, Joe. You are not alone. I get so many emails that echo the exact feelings you just expressed.

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    Joe 6 years ago

    Having three kids for me is pure hell. No matter how hard to try to be a great dad, my sanity takes a huge beating to the point of losing it. A single kid can be complicated. Try having three complicated kids! I use to love watching the Brady Bunch. Now I laugh at it because its so far from reality. I had 8 years of experience being a dad before the second one came along and the first daughter proved that it could be fairly easy. But then comes the high needs (not special) kid who never stops having dramatic episodes. Almost autistic. Then comes a boy who is ALL BOY to the point of trying to turn everything upside down 24/7. Then your oldest ends up becoming a drama queen and can't stand the attention we have to give to small children. Marriage has become a thing of the past even though the wife and I have been together for 15 years. What is marriage? I have completely forgotten. Instead of companionship, going on dates, it has become a daily chore of survival from the disturbing presence of needy kids. Usually our ideas that work with one kid will not work with another. We end up having loads of trouble finding common ground. It gets chaotic at times. I have just about stretched myself to the point of not giving a damn anymore. I am starting to envision a life of freedom but I'll have to pack my bags and leave to get it.

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    Tara_in_NE 6 years ago

    Lost and confused, I have a question for you:

    What was more important to you going into your marriage- being his wife or being the mother of his children?

    If you answered the latter, then the two of you should have called off the wedding.

  • Tara_in_NE profile image

    Tara_in_NE 6 years ago

    I live alone in a small, tidy two-bedroom ranch house on three acres in small New England town. After reading this thread and the posts on it I'm beginning to wonder why I should feel that I have it so badly after all.

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    Neil Sperling 6 years ago from Port Dover Ontario Canada

    Love your no nonsense way of expressing a clear mature point of view. Maturity is not something that is common.. LOL

    Keep up the great writing

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    Lost and Confused 6 years ago

    I got marred to my husband in early 2009. We both are thirty yrs old.I want to plan a family and have kids but he is never ready for it.According to him ev everything has to be perfect,and life is always imperfect.Its been 2 yrs and I started to loose hope.I dont think he is committed to me in long run !

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    Mamelody 6 years ago

    Thank God am not married and have no kids. This hub has just confirmed my decision to never marry or have kids so thank you for pointing it out!

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    Derailed 6 years ago

    I think what strikes me most in the comments is how many guys think their situation is so unique. It's the exact opposite. I bet it's the majority of married men with kids that feel fucked and think about cheating, and just want to get out.

    The other thing that strikes me is how many guys really do think divorce is not an option. That's pretty much what this article is about in a way. Put energy into fixing things. Try talking. If it doesn't work, then be honest and admit it's not working and end it.

    I was one of those guys. I'm not like that anymore.

  • Veronica profile image
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    Veronica 6 years ago from NY

    Justine,

    It does apply to you.

    If you're unhappy, then go. If your wife is such a fruitcake, divorce her. She sounds like a shitty mother as well as a shitty wife, so what's the hold up? Why stay?

    There are plenty of shits and 50% of them are women? Of course there are. And it's probably a lot more than 50%. Most of my articles come down pretty heavy on the gals. And this one states pretty clearly, she may be the one that changed, the one that is intolerable, the one that gives you all the reasons why it's not working.

    Why would you lie to cover up for your wife? If she's screaming at the kids, they should know that's not healthy or normal.

    Yeah the art "The only lying" you do is not helping anyone. And it'll lead to much worse lies. Why choose that?

    Life is way too short to be miserable. This article says deal with your shit, don't lie and run away. Of course that applies to you. Choosing to be a martyr is ridiculous. Get a lawyer, pack up your kids and GO.

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    justine otherstatistic 6 years ago

    I read your stuff Veronica but it doesn't apply to me, nor to countless thousands of other guys. There are plenty of shits in this world, and 50% of them are women.

    So spare a thought for poor trapped morons like me who would be happy to be a man and take responsibilty blah blah but are forever treading on eggshells waiting for another explosion, dealing with an insane creature who used to be a woman.

    I'm not trying to find some hot sexy babe lover, I'm not a bored "want more sex" lying shyte husband, but I would just LOVE to find a nice woman somewhere who I can feel normal with again. As for sex etc..., I'm not even within a mile of thinking about that idyllic situation. I'd settle for just to be able to talk to a woman who was sane and happy so I could feel normal again. Feel like me again, have a laugh, talk about things of interest, walk in the country.....

    The only lying I do is to cover up my wife's madness, trying to keep some semblence of normality for my kids.

    I do most everything with the kids, get them ready for school, collect them from school put them to bed etc

    She doesn't do a thing with the kids except scream and shout. Then there's the violence! yes, women are violent, believe me! Dear God I never expected to end up like this. How blind I was. I'm only staying here long enough to make sure the kids are still relatively sane by the time they are old enough to leave home. When your own kids say they hate their mother and wish they were dead it makes you rather desperate. It's all very well saying sit down and talk to your wife about the problems but that is NOT an option. She would go ballistic and kill someone. Honestly I am at my wits end, how on earth can I deal with this? Yes, I would LOVE to have a LOVER because I want to love someone. I am so miserable and I don't bloody well deserve to have such a shitty life. The fact that I haven't done anything about it is simply due to the contradictions it would entail. I am not a philanderer but a one woman guy....and so I've ended up neither here nor there. HEY all you blokes out there!!....do a sanity check on that woman you are about to marry, you might be about to marry a lying, violent thieving, nutcase.

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    Rabia Sajjad 6 years ago from Lahore,Pakistan

    Very nice...I'm impressed by your writings. To tell you about myself,m new to hubpages. M following you and hoping to get your feed back on my hubs...n gimme some useful tips as well.

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    Retirement 6 years ago

    I am married, have kids, the dogs, house and all that goes with it ($$$$). For those of you who have not experienced any of these things, you will be having a great awakening. Yes, your life changes. When you have children, you sleep when you're not tired and wash when you're not dirty, etc., so you will be there when your kids need you. This is no excuse for neglecting each other. If you're not old enough to remember the song by Jack Jones, the lyrics were: Hey! Little Girl

    Comb your hair, fix your makeup

    Soon he will open the door

    Don't think because there's a ring on your finger

    You needn't try anymore

    For wives should always be lovers too

    Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you

    I'm warning you...

    Day after day

    There are girls at the office

    And men will always be men

    Don't send him off with your hair still in curlers

    You may not see him again

    For wives should always be lovers too

    Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you

    He's almost here...

    Hey! Little girl

    Better wear something pretty

    Something you'd wear to go to the city and

    Dim all the lights, pour the wine, start the music

    Time to get ready for love

    Time to get ready

    Time to get ready for love

    It goes for men too.

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    S. 6 years ago

    I was married for 10 years, and have a 3 year old boy.

    My wife was physically distant much of the time, I can't actually ever recall her initiating sex (before or after kids), ever hug was concluded by her, physical advances were refused, there were parts of her I wasn't to touch..

    We were infertile for some time before falling pregnant,having a child was very important to her, I spent many a day/night comforting her during infertility.

    So you can imagine my surprise when she fell pregnant a second time and wanted a termination. Which happened on the basis she wanted to go back to work and couldn't cope with staying home. (She couldn't cope with me staying home instead either).

    After a while I concluded my wife was a woman who wanted a shiny house, without a thing out of place, a shiny car, a shiny single child, a shiny husband, all of the appearnaces of success. I was just a role that was beinf fulfilled. I met someone else and left.

    Apart from missing my son (who she has limited me to 1 day a week), I've never been happier.

    You don't have to put up with a life of harassment and no sex, devoting yourself to someone who is only happy when EVERYTHING they want is supplied to them. Get out.

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    Crisandria 7 years ago

    Thank you for the kind words Veronica!

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    K,

    Congratulations to you and your wife on a good life with choices that were the right ones for you.

    Thanks for the comments tonight, I see you've commented on a few of my hubs and I appreciate it.

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    7 years ago

    I'm a happily married man. My wife and I are together 20 years now, married for 8. We don't have kids and I really think that's the key. I don't know any married guys with kids that are truly happy. They may love their kids, or say they are doing OK, but none of them are actually happy. I'm so glad I really thought about this before hand and figured out I did not want to have that kind of life. My wife and I have so much fun together, and another thing is we have money. We aren't broke like everyone with kids always seems broke. We're not rich or anything but we can afford vacations and we can pay our bills. I really was impressed with this article. I hope people read it and consider what they are getting into before they have kids.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Crisandria,

    You're amazingly insightful, introspective, and honest. Thank you so much for posting here. Your words are rather haunting. I'm sorry to hear you've struggled with guilt and self esteem issues, and you've wound up building a life with a partner that seems to perpetuate them.

    If you decide to write out some more of your experience and feelings, and observations, I bet it would help you sort through it all, and I'm sure it would help others. I know for a fact you are not alone. Much of what you've experienced happens to others who don't know what to do about it. If you start blogging or hubbing, I hope you leave a link here so people can read you. I know I would.

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    Crisandria 7 years ago

    I've about his motives too Veronica. On the one hand, he's been in denial for quite some time. On the other, he measures maturity by one's willingness to endure pain, suffering, and sacrifice. I truly believe a masochism is at the root of much of his behavior, and a bit of mine too. He was swearing off pleasurable engagements and activities when we met, which is likely one reason why he decided to take up with me at the time. I was a depressed teenager, freshmen in college, suffering the guilt and shame that was part of grieving the reality of abortion with my ex who had been my sweetheart for years until that time. My husband took me up as a project; someone he vowed to "improve" and "turn into" a "good woman". Those words must've went right over my head; no wonder, considering my self-esteem was just inches from the ground.

  • Veronica profile image
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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Chriandria,

    Wow. Thank you so much for your comment here. I am sure you are not alone. You're right - so many people behind those smiles have their own private hells going on. I'm floored that as unhappy as your husband is he says what he does to others. I really wonder why he does that. He's not the only one and it makes writing a hub like this all the harder when it's such a taboo because everyone lies.

    Thanks again for taking the time to comment with your experience. I really appreciate it.

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    Crisandria 7 years ago

    This article was fantastic! My husband and I have always had a dysfunctional relationship, but we pushed it through for a multitude of reasons. At age 27, he decided he wanted children. Since giving birth, our already deteriorating relationship has goes up in smoke at least every other week since having our son nearly 5-years ago. We do go out on date nights quite frequently, but we're both very unhappy with our lives in general. Most people think we have it all(nice house, intelligent child, and the appearance of a great relationship), and I was sure we were one of the few who were *faking* it until I started talking to other married women. My god! I haven't spoken to one truly happy married women with children yet. I always wonder how many people are suffering behind their smiles when I log on to Facebook. Every single couple looks happy, including us! No one would ever know the abuse, distrust, and hell that has characterized our involvement with each other over the course of 10-years. It's very discouraging. We're agnostic, but I've even considered going to church just to see if I can find happily married women and men with children there. Where are they? *sigh*

    Kudos to you for following your heart and your mind! Your relationship sounds utterly amazing whereas ours only looks that way. My husband is just over 30 and I'm five years younger. We haven't had regular sex since I was 23 years old. We've actually taken years off from having sex, and both of us, as healthy and attractive as people think we are, suffer from chronic pain and the health effects of living unfulfilled lives. Oddly enough, although my husband seems miserable at home, he promotes parenthood(and marriage) to all of his single or childfree friends and speaks as though he absolutely loves it all.

  • Veronica profile image
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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Confused,

    Thank you so much for your comment. I took it to heart and wrote you your own Hub -

    https://hubpages.com/relationships/With-Divorce-Af...

    I've moved your comment exactly as you left it, over to there. I hope you will check it out.

    Best to you.

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    Confused 7 years ago

    I'm reading this artical as a young female in a long term relationship. I have no urge to have kids, but I'm just reading some of the responses here. How miserable people are, how bleak everything is, how sex is still the be all and end all.

    Can someone answer me honestly, is there ANYTHING to look forward to in life? I couldn't stand the thought of my long term boyfriend having an affair, it would completely crush me, yet I read this and some people have been having affairs for YEARS? I agree with the pressure thing, people ask me if I'm pregnant about every year I catch up with them.

    But if I don't want to have kids I'm a tigh a**ed career focused woman who is grouchy and depressed with no joy in her life. HOW IS THAT FAIR? Society has pretty f*cked up stereotypes.

    But back to the original questoin, is anything in life worth looking forward to if marriage ends in affairs and kids end in divorce?

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    confused 7 years ago

    you know, in my situation this does not apply, and i do not know what has happened within my marriage! i had a kid when he met me, so what my life was like and what his would be like should not have come as a surprise. we have one together, and now he says that i have forced him to change, that he never wanted kids and he is miserable! excuse me??? i clean the house, work full time(make twice what he does), take care of kids and myself! I do not nag, i never complain when he spends all weekend playing video games, hell, i even buy the games! i have not let myself go! I love him! I have watched too many people let their marriages die by not taking care of their husbands, and i have never not taken care of him. i meet all of his "needs" most of the time when he is home i don't even bother him with the kids, i continue, no matter how tired i am, to take care of everyones needs. now, he says that i am too perfect and that i can not relax and just have fun??? he is the one that said that he does not feel like coming home if the house isnt clean. I just don't get it! Any insight would be nice, oh and he also promised there was not anyone else.

  • Veronica profile image
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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    dawnM,

    Wow, thanks so much for such an inspiring comment. I really appreciate it! Thanks for stopping by!

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    Dawn Michael 7 years ago from THOUSAND OAKS

    very well writen article and insightful as well. the part about having children I especially loved because all that you said is true, having children changes a marriage and your life. You no longer are alone you have them to raise and be responsible for. The other point that I loved and me being a marriage counselor I tell my male clients is exactly what you said fess up to your spouse tell her you are unhappy and that you want to leave and things have to change in the marriage. Like you I cannot express this more clearly to all men out there....great point and exceptional article!!

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    Office Fan 7 years ago

    I'm a bit late to this debate but i will post anyway. I'm 31 and my gf is 27, we have been together 2 yrs, living together 1 yr. She is the love of my life and i am about to end our relationship because of the incessant nagging to have kids. It wasn't until about 6 months ago she started talking about it but she hasn't stopped since. I had never really thought about kids, even with her, until 6 months ago. She keeps going on about having 4 kids and a big house and how she doesn't want to work. I'm an accountant and KNOW the TRUE cost of everything! Needless to say this put me under a lot of pressure. I have explained how i feel to her but it goes in one ear and out the other. I fear she has stopped taking the pill so our sex life has gone downhill as i keep making excuses not to sleep with her. (She won't let me wear a condom as to her 'it feels like rape'). The last 6 months have been hell. What happened to that smart, funny, intelligent, beautiful woman i met 2 years ago? She is no where to be seen. After much internal turmoil, research and forum reading i have decided to end our relationship and live a child free life. Just the thought of the freedom that brings has felt like a weight lifted and i can't wait to explore as much of this planet and experience as much as i can - excluding parenthood! Believe it or not this is my first ever post and i feel more positive for sharing how i feel. Peace and love to you all

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    JJ 668 7 years ago

    Well I've been married for 15 years and we have 3 kids. It's been hard enough to call it hell. We have both been very loyal to each other, even though its been painful. We found out things about ourselves that has made it difficult. You make some huge self sacrifices when having kids. Your time is no longer yours and it sure as hell aint free. Just getting to go wipe your ass is a break because you're usually busy wiping theirs. I love my kids but I hate having kids. Does it makes sense? I am carefully planning my own escape while staying married with kids. Will probably stay as busy as I can away from home. As long as they have money they dont need me as much. 5 years of college have become my way out.

  • Veronica profile image
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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Mike,

    It means be a man, rather than a boy. Since you have a penis, you're always one or the other. I'm saying you have to be a man and own up, or be honest, or be real. Life is too short to be unhappy, and only you can decide what's right for you. But being a sneak, a cheat and a liar are not options.

  • profile image

    Mike 7 years ago

    I never wanted kids but have them and am frequently unhappy in my marriage. I sympathise and identify with all of the men here. Having children changes EVERYTHING but I wont give up on finding the spark with my wife again. I will not let this beat me or us. My wife and I are going through the same thing a you guys...love lost, not talking to eachother, no passion. Hell, we don't even hang out in social situations.

    We both are at fault. I realize that part of problem is me and will work on correcting some of my faults as a husband and father.

    I am not doing this for my child. I am doing this for me and my wifes sake because not having her it whats hurting me.

    Veronica, good column, you got people talking but it really bugs me when women tell a man to BE A MAN. It is derogatory and non-specific. For example, what is your definition of a man? Is it the same as theirs? You get my point.

    Mike

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    nagarajnow 7 years ago from Tamilnadu

    Hi friend..Never spend this much time any other hubs.. But its great message behind your hub and also in the comments posted..

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    Nick 7 years ago

    never saw that many comments. great post.

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    Sue 7 years ago

    cont...

    For a long time I believed some of the things that my husband tried to tell me. For starters, that I’m a negative person. No, I’m realistic. To me, stating the truth and looking your mistakes in the eye and learning from them doesn’t mean negativity. For my husband it does. It took me a long time to say to myself wait, you are very positive at work, people enjoy being around your energy, you are not negative! I think age has helped with a lot of where and how I see myself. I realize that my husband twists a lot of my positive qualities into negatives mostly because he’d rather not delve into why he’s so unhappy with himself. Had my husband came to me years ago and said I want a divorce instead of having an affair I would have so much more respect for him now. But instead he took all the time and energy and affection he was supposed to give me and the kids and he gave it to some woman who lapped it up and gave him an ego boost. I would love to give my husband an ego boost but when you don’t support your family financially or spend enough time with us, and you don’t take my needs into consideration it makes it really hard for me to always give give and give. I have children who need to be raised into healthy and loving adults, I have a job that I give more than 40 hours a week to and in the 4th quarter I give my job the whole month of December. I do this for my family not because I’m so in love with working but because I have turned into the more solid bill paying spouse. I have parents and siblings who need my time and attention and I have friends. I have hobbies and a home to keep up (in which I get very little help from my husband) and books to read…I’m a very independent and strong person which turned out to be a good thing because had I been a highly dependent person I could have gone down some really bad paths in the last few years. I am not trying to just give a negative picture of my husband he really does have some very good qualities also but what I am saying is look into yourself and think how would my wife describe me and does she have any valid points. I am fair about certain qualities I have that I know are annoying to my spouse or not fair to him. I know that I don’t give him the feeling that he is the man of the house who takes care of me and that I depend upon him. But I also know that a lot of that comes from his actions. There are consequences in life to our behaviors. Do you want to know the one thing my husband complains the most about about me? My weight. I gained weight after the second child…I know this. But I am not THAT BIG!!! And I’m a very attractive woman still. I want to lose weight for me because I was super thin before kids. My husband through comments and jokes insinuates that I am at least 50 pounds heavier than my real weight. I think most moms want to be attractive and sexy so it really does suck when you gain some weight but it is something I can change about myself if I put the time and effort into me. But how is he going to change that crappy attitude he has? I think weight loss is going to be easier. Understand that on the surface we look like a very nice couple and people don’t think of us as a couple on the edge of divorce upon meeting us. What we lack though is some good honest communication. I don’t need lies, attitude or excuses. I just want my husband to listen to what I’m saying. If he doesn’t want to be married then say so. I know what I want. I want a good husband. I want a friend and a lover and someone who looks out for me and takes care of me (and I don’t mean financially). I want to have someone to spend some quality time with me and the kids. One thing is though, I will not cheat on my husband to get it. Two wrongs don’t make a right and it would be a disaster. This has been long enough so I hope it gave you something to think about.

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Steve,

    Can you talk to your wife about things? Would you be able to take her away for the weekend with no kids and just relax and talk about things? You don't sound like you really want to go anywhere but you want more affection and sex in your life. There is nothing wrong with wanting those things and I think they should go hand in hand with marriage whether you have one child or ten. Having kids does not mean the end of sex and affection but you both have to work at it. Do you give her the support and help she needs? Does she say she is tired? And Steve I only tell you what I want from my husband. I have no tried and true answers. You say you are an unhappily married man, I don't think I'm unhappy but my marriage isn't in a good place. My husband would probably say he's the unhappily married man but I’ll be honest, most of his unhappiness with our marriage is generated with his own unhappiness with himself. Why is he unhappy with himself? Well, too many failed jobs and no solid career in his 40’s. Actually, he was employed in a family business for years so he truly now hates having a boss and answering to someone-even though he does have a good job now. But he has no appreciation for that fact. He made some very bad financial decisions that hurt our family and really put a crimp on our lifestyle for a while. I’ve been working hard at getting us out and back into what I consider a good and decent lifestyle but I’ll be honest with you, he’s still not happy with it. I guess the house isn’t big enough or fancy enough to have coworkers over because he tends to try to use a family member with a much larger and grander home for gatherings when he invites them. Trust me when I tell you our house that we rent (not own, due to our own bad decisions) is nice. It’s in a nice neighborhood and it is a well established house. There is nothing to be ashamed about where we live. The biggest mistake my husband made and yes, he’s still paying for it, is that he had a long term affair with another woman. It hurt me, the older kids, his family, my family; it was a really crappy part of my life. Well, that aspect of it. My kids were still great, my job stayed steady and I was promoted and I still had my personal faith and the support of two good families. My husband suffers from some level of depression (diagnosed only by myself mind you) and anxiety. But he suffers from these things in a large part because of the a bash the heck out of my husband. I’m not a victim. I chose to stay with this man regardless so I am where I am in my life due to my decisions. I do believe that my marriage will come to an end. I always hope something will happen and it won’t but I’m not holding my breath. There are some financial obligations that I am working on and when those are gone I’m going to reevaluate the marriage and make some decisions and stand by them. I know that sounds cold but it is unfortunately where we have come to. I will never regret my marriage, life is too short. I won’t blame anyone other than myself for letting myself get drug into bad decisions and choices. Yes, I did not personally make them but I didn’t separate myself from them either. Occasionally when I’m having a pity party I feel bad for me because I’ve been cheated on, lied to and treated like crap and “it’s not fair”!!!!! But I also know that overall I like my life and who I am and what I do. I am a great believer in constant self improvement in life so I know I have plenty of room for it. Whether it’s through self help books, motivational literature, etc. I’m there. This is why I say you have to be happy with yourself. I can look in me and I know I’ve made some big mistakes, I’ve done some wrong things but I’m happy with me and I’m happy to be alive.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    Sue & Veronica, Thanks! I know that when I am divorced I would still see the kids but I meant no booty is worth not seeing them on a daily basis watching them play on a swing, acting silly and watching their eyes light up when I walk in the front door. In some ways it's a trade-off and I'm pretty sure I will never travel the world and see many things but I'm okay with that. Those things become distant memories over time anyway. The real joy is today and the next day watching these kids grow older. My sex life isn't what it used to be and sometimes I wonder how things could be but that's just a fantasy world of mine. I never really meant for the women to go out and cheat too just the man because we are built differently and think differently. I must retract the swinging comment. I can't thank you guys enough because you certainly helped put things into perspective especially the happiness part.

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Steve,

    You are going in so many directions today that I'm getting lost!!! A few thoughts though...

    First, Veronica is right in that the example you gave of your unhappily divorced friend is that unfortunately his situation is the result of some bad choices made by him and his ex wife. But I have a feeling that even if he has to live on an extreme budget for a few years he doesn't have to be miserable. I do believe people have a choice to be miserable or to be happy, a lot of it deals with your own perspective on life.

    Secondly, I do believe in God but I don't believe God wants people to be miserable. Once again, that's your own choice. Since you threw God out there but then threw out cheating I do believe that adultery is frowned upon in the bible so if that's the direction you want to go in you'd have to say that's why you WOULD NOT have an affair.

    Thirdly, I am a bit worried that many men do feel unhappy once married and a father and to me, that's a bit sad but once again people do control their own happiness. To me, kids are a personal choice. I love being a mom but if I hadn't had children I would have been fine also. I would be that great aunt that all the kids love to have come visit. I also have step kids and I got lucky with two really good ones. Not only do I have a great bond with them, they are also really bonded with their younger siblings...even though the oldest used to roll his eyes at each pregnancy announcement. And the three youngest, they just jump all over the older two the minute they walk in our house. But I'm rambling. Veronica is right. Being divorced doesn't mean you don't see your kids. You don't stop being a parent once you are divorced unless you've been such a rotten parent somehow all custodial rights are legally removed from you, and those are some rare situations I think.

    My last thought is a question for you??? Since you are wondering why women don't let their husbands go have an affair...are you ok with your wife going out and having mind blowing (affair) sex with a younger, nice looking, good smelling, well groomed attractive man with a good paying job (who pays attention to her and compliments her and makes her feel beautiful) and then coming back home, kissing the kids, showering and sleeping in bed with you like nothing? Because seriously if it doesn't work both ways, it doesn't work. Plus, when you realize that having an affair didn't make you happier than you are now you have so much fall out to deal with in your marriage and with your wife I think you'll find it wasn't worth it. It would be easier and less hurtful to everyone involved to get divorced and to find your personal happiness which is what is sounds like you are looking for anyways.

    BTW, I am a married woman with kids and I DO NOT kid talk constantly. I also like the same subjects that the childless people I know do. When I hang out with my friends with kids we don't kid talk constantly either. I know for a fact that would get really really boring and old really fast. Don't get me wrong, we talk about them but they don't dominate our conversations constantly.

    Veronica, keep paint balling at 2 am! It keeps you young, sane and vibrant I am sure. Steve, I think the point is that whether you are single or married, whether you have kids or not, you find what makes you happy. You will not "make" anyone else happy if you aren't first happy with yourself. Work on yourself first and see how that changes your entire life. And change is good sometimes even if it's hard at first.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve,

    My life isn't for everybody, I know that. And that's fine. We have a great house in upstate NY with alot of acreage and a couple of very cool neighbors that are not on top of us. We are here because we wanted this situation. It's not for everyone. My old friends in Manhattan couldn't live here, but this is what I wanted. The country isn't for everyone, marriage isn't for everyone, not having kids isn't for everyone, and monogamy isn't for everyone.

    Getting divorced to have sex is not what I said at all. I said, if you are unhappy, you should do what you need to do to be happy. You should be happy in many different aspects of your life, sex is just one of them. Your partner should consider your needs in all aspects of your life to be very important. If it's not, than that's a huge reflection on the kind of partnership you have. I don't know how you're translating what I said into "no booty is worth not seeing your kids again."

    And I don't know why you associate getting divorced with not seeing your children again. You have such an extreme and narrow view of things which doesn't correlate with reality, and I don't know where it comes from. Steve, if you get divorced and have joint custody, and see your kids half the time, which is probably not going to turn out to be too different from having a day job. You will work out visitation with a judge, not with a vindictive wife. Why in the world would your divorce result in "never" seeing your kids again?

    I would never judge any couple that mutually agreed to swing or swap or be open. The only thing I don't like is lying. Many many people find that they are not monogamous, and that's fine. Personally, I'm monogamous. I couldn't have that situation in my relationship, but that's just us.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    It seems like you have quite the life. If I went out back at 2 a.m. with paintball guns my neighbors would call the cops. If I went to Amsterdam I would return completely broke with an unwanted tattoo on my back. I certainly wish I had the time, freedom and resources to do all those things. Although, don't need to be in Amsterdam for alcohol, clubs and tramps. We have plenty of all three right here. I would like to throw something out there for a minute. I think "maybe" wives should just let men have an affair or two. What's the big deal? Even help set it up at times if possible. This should be discussed among married women instead of "kid talk" all the time. It would totally change our entire outlook and would make everything better (instantly). Maybe a good swingers group is the way to go too but what if the wife isn't for it after I propose the notion? Then there's Ashley Madison right? Anyway, Why give up all the nice things you've worked for just to clean out the pipes a little more often? No booty is worth not seeing your children again so divorce doesn't seem logical to me. Kids are NOT the reason why men are miserable. We just get tired of seeing the same movie and hearing the same song over and over again. I applaud your happiness because it breaks the mold. I also applaud all the women raising their kids the "correct" way each and every day of their lives. However, I just don't believe that infidelity is this horrible monster everyones builds it up to be. It shouldn't be discussed or encouraged around kids but adults need to act like kids once in a while too. It's healthy.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve, you can keep coming and posting, and talking out what you're feeling, and I hope that you do.

    Nope, I can't answer for other people what's going to mean "happiness" to them. I'm sure "married" isn't a road to happiness for many people, so right there your question kinda baffles me. It's different for everyone. For example, you're very insistent that having kids meant happiness for you. For many people like me and my husband that's not the case.

    The two tips I give over and over to anyone to find happiness in marriage (if marriage is what they want) is-

    1 - don't get married under 30 years old. You really don't know what you want, and who you are, and the full extent of what obligation is, until you've passed through your Saturn Return. Getting married too young and too fast doesn't often lead to good things. It's HARD to find the right person, the person that loves you for YOU, the person that wants to be happy with you, and celebrates you and your choices as well as their own. And that hard task is made impossible when you marry too fast, or too young.

    And 2 - Don't have kids unless you can understand how much sacrifice and commitment raising them takes. And men especially need to understand how many women change after kids. Make sure you're prepared for that, and it's what you want. It's a different life.

    Steve, I got married later in life after being quite the wild child until I was 31. My husband and I dated for a while and had a certain type of life that we both really enjoyed. We both knew we didn't want kids. We were both old enough to know what we wanted and what we didn't want out of life. As you know we like to travel, we party pretty hard, we love to go dancing and clubbing and to see concerts. We snow mobile and ski, we collect art, we rescue dogs, we each travel for our work. We're both highly sexual people. We'll be married 12 years this summer, and I can honestly say we're very happy. But what makes us happy isn't what makes you happy, obviously. And it isn't what would make many people happy.

    Would flying into Amsterdam on a Friday to hit a 3 day dance club party and then fly home be "happiness" for every married man? No, probably not. Would deciding at 2am to get up and go outside and play paintball in our pajamas while downing a few Coronas and then screwing like bunnies on the backporch (like we did last night) be happiness for every couple? No, probably not. But that's happiness for us; that's happiness for him.

    Steve, only you know what happiness means to you. There's no wrong answer. If it's having kids and having a conservative quiet life, that's wonderful. Whatever it is, you're allowed to have it. You're allowed to create that life for yourself.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    One more question then please. Can you describe happiness for a married man?

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve,

    I'm sorry about your Aunt. But she could have been married and had 10 kids, and still had a stroke while alone, you can't say this happened to her because she was single.

    You know I am not pro-having kids. You know from the many of my articles you've read that I believe women greatly change and become super-moms at the expense of their marriages. You know I think people rush into having kids without knowing just how much work and sacrifice is entailed.

    I don't believe "god" wants you or anyone for that matter to be married and stay in a loveless unhappy non-sexual marriage. I've said over and over, I think life is too short for that. Everyone deserves to be happy and loved. Your specific examples of someone married that's unhappy or someone divorced that's unhappy are examples of people that made poor choices or want things they couldn't have, and now have to deal with that. I'm sorry for them, we've all made poor choices at one time or another, we've all wanted something we couldn't get. But these examples of other people have nothing to do with you.

    I take some heat from the women because I'm always more sympathetic to the guys, except when the guy lies or cheats. (Man-up and be honest. Lying and cheating is such shit.)

    Right in the title of this article is "Kids Change Everything." I warn the guys over and over in this and many hubs that the woman they are dating is apt to become a "mom" once she has kids. I don't know many men that are married with kids that are happy. This particular hub is for the guys, that's why the title is Unhappily Married MEN. It's a warning. And the guys know as long as they don't cheat or lie, I'm on their side.

    Steve, you're bringing up examples of other people in situations that aren't yours, you constantly avoid the fact that kids changed everything, and you vacillate about what you want to do. Yet you keep coming back here, to my article, knowing what I think.

    What I think hasn't changed: Don't cheat. Own your shit. If you're not happy, then you need to make major changes. Talk to your wife and tell her what's going on with you. Life is too short to spend it this unhappy. If you want out, then get out. I don't believe divorce is this horrible last resort option you seem to think it is.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    What if this happens? My friend that married my wife's best friend one year before me 15 years ago was officially divorced two years ago. Around the tenth year things were bad for them but I always talked him into going back for the kids which he did. He made (2) strong attempts after brief seperations only to tell me two years ago that there was just simply no way. The secong reconciliation attempt was because his kids were acting up terrible and his wife's boyfriend were verbally mistreating the children. The boyfriend has gone away just like the marriage and the wife doesn't really date for the safety of her children. Where is the benefit there. I understand she is having a terrible time making ends meat. My friend is also having a terrible time financially especially with child support. He maintains a very close relationship with his children but eben after the divorce he is still miserable. He lives at home with his parents despite owning a home for many years with his wife. He cannor afford an apartment and doesn't even have spending money. He is terribly miserable about the same and maybe more from when he is married. I was with him the other day and he couldn't fill up his car with cas because his credit card declined. He hates living with his parents and can't even afford a date. How is this any better! I think we sometimes assume that all married people are miserable but that's not the case. My divorced friend is miserable. My single female friend is miserable because she is nearing 35 and wants kids badly and wants to be married because of the loneliness. My poor aunt took a stroke in her apartment and layed on the floor overnight because she lived alone. Today she is in a nursing home for life at the age of 60. Frome my previous posts I was that person that wanted to be single again. I still do a little but things are much more in perspective now. I believe that this is the life God wanted for me. I need to make it work not God. I do believe in divorce after all else fails and I am trying everything I have to make this work. It just seems that there are millions of miserable people out there regardless of lifestyle. As the saying goes "life is what you make of it"! Remember, we loved our wives once and we can love them again (i hope) :)

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Shoshane,

    Oh god yes, having kids just because someone else wants you to would be a really bad decision. I'm glad too that you didn't do anything stupid, and that you followed your heart on the life journey you wanted for yourself. Good for you. Thanks for commenting. xo

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    Shoshane 7 years ago

    I was with a guyfor a couple of years and he made it very clear at one point that he couldn't get more serious about me because he wanted somenoe who wanted kids. So he broke off with me and it was so painful. Years pass and I moved on, I met a great guy. My ex boyfriend met a girl almost 2 months after he broke off with me, 5 monthslater he marries her, they have kids right away. He emails me all the time now, tells me how miserable he is,how stressed out he is,they never talk they never are together, she changed into a super mom and only talks about the kids, refuses to go anywhere without them, makes him sleep on the couch so the kids can sleep with her. He's so depressed. He says he can't beleive he gave me up for a life he now hates. All I can say is I'm gald I stuck to my guns and didn't have kids just to 'keep' him. Oh and my new boyfriend is 'fixed'.

    ; )

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Herman,

    I think it's a very personal choice. I understand what you did and why, especially considering what the world was like back then.

    I think birth control needs to be easily accessible, and choices need to be made clear and available. I do not think for one minute that someone should spend the next 35 years of their life unhappily paying for a mistake that was preventible or fixable. I truly think people should have children because they want to have children, not because they made a mistake.

    I don't think the "right" thing to do is to not be happy. Personally, I just think life is too short to live without following your heart as much as you can. I think if you are honest, and careful, and you treat people with respect and dignity, you can have a happy life, and not a life you felt forced to live. Marriage and children shouldn't be traps or obligations, they should be healthy mature choices that adults make when truly ready and able to understand what they are doing.

    I believe that your children, unless you raised them to be very selfish people, wouldn't have wanted their father or mother to be unhappy. I have received hundreds if not thousands of comments and emails, on almost 200 relationship articles I've published. Different people have expressed different feelings and experiences. But one thing I can tell you for sure, is that I have never ever received any communication from someone who was once a kid from one of those "stayed together for the kids" families, that grew up and said, "I'm so glad my father is miserable and never knew love, and just stayed for us. This makes me happy." The emails and comments from those people are the exact opposite. I've gotten many horribly guilt-ridden communications from those people. I've also gotten many notes from those people reflecting feelings of obligation in life, having learned through example that love isn't a choice and life sucks. The lessons they took away from that kind of life aren't good. BTW, I'm one of those former kids.

    I think alot of damage can come from lies, even the ones you live because society convinced you of something that just isn't true.

    Herman, you asked, "What do you think" and I'm answering. I'd like to hear what you really think.

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    herman 7 years ago

    i made a woman pregnant .we got married in court .my cilden are married and i have 4 grandchildren and my youngest is expexting now.i worked for 35 years to give them wat they need like n roof ,food,clothes and a upbringing as we could on my salary as i could.our chidren and grandcildren are a big yoy to us.the big proglem is i did the right thing but i never was happy my whole life .i am 59 .i start to wonder if if it always is the corect thing to do to only think about the children.the wife is happy and love me very mutch icant say the same . WHAT DO YOU THINK

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve,

    I think it's important to be single, and sample what life has to offer, for a significant amount of time. And if someone decides the single life is for them, I think that's fantastic.

    Marriage is supposed to be when two people fall in love and want to spend their lives together. It's technically a sacrament for two people to share, in celebration of their choice to unite. It has nothing to do with children. I found it sad that you see no reason for two people to celebrate marriage, unless it involves children - something that has nothing to do with why two people should marry.

    I think getting married to have children is bound to end in disaster. There is only one reason to get married, and that's because you are in love.

    I dated many different people and was very happy sampling life, at 30 I bought my first house, and had my career on a strong path. And then I met my husband, and the future I saw was even better and brighter.

    That's why 2 people should get married, if that's what they choose to do.

    We're together 13 years. My husband and I spend our money on art, vacations, our dogs, wining and dining, snow mobiling, ... everything we spent money on when we were single. Why would that change after we married?

    I think the "single people as opposed to the married people" you're comparing, are actually people that don't have children, and people that do have children.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    Veronica. My question is then why get married if you don't want kids? Maybe you heard this before but if your not having kids why not explore all the relationships you could be having. It seams your somewhere in the middle that carries a little less identity. I hope that I'm not being rude but I was always the type to ask questions. Also, I know plenty of single people (and married) that punch clocks everyday but the single people spend their money on wining and dining, sports events, cars, apartments and many other things. I never looked at my kids as a financial burden. I love them way too much to feel that way. Personally, I just hit a ryt that I am currently fixing and fixing quite well. My wife had talks that I never thought we would have. My advice to the others is to open that communication door and don't expect all the changes to happen overnight. It's a path I am heading down and I certainly hope to find that rainbow. I enjoyed reading all your articles. I wich you all the best.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Thanks, 4tsom10!

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    4tsom10 7 years ago from Texas

    Great story...so many comments and people in bad, unhappy situations. I liked your comments to them and I think you helped quite a few people with their situations.

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    Anni 7 years ago

    NO child should be born to a couple who isn't entirely wanted by BOTH. Every couple has a choice, and if your wife is pressuring you to have kids and you aren't into it, then do the kid you haven't had yet a big favor. Don't. Better yet, TALK about this topic BEFORE you get married. You aren't entitled to have kids when you aren't both on board. You owe it to both of you, and the innocent and potential child victim in between the both of you, to be on the same page dedication and interest-wise.

    My husband and I discussed this before AND after we married. We were both in agreement that we liked our lifestyle exactly as it was, and why screw up a good thing for someone we haven't met? We couldn't figure out the return on the kid investment anyway. You sacrifice time, energy, and money on these people who, ideally, will move out and be independent. If you're lucky! If you're not, you've raised an enabled kid who shirks responsibility and wants to climb your money tree. You might like them as adults enough to want to spend time with them and their families. You might also live close enough that you'll be enlisted to babysit the grandkids for free if you don't have anything else going on when you're retired. It just didn't sound like fun to us. Then again, they never said fun was in the kid brochure.

    Of course you love your kids. You sound like a monster if you say you don't. But more people need to admit that it's not the lifestyle for them, because there are too many people with kids getting divorced. The person who was good enough to screw and good enough to have kids with is no longer good enough to stay married to. Thinking needs to change on this. The parenting lifestyle isn't designed to be tried out. Some couples love it and wouldn't trade it for the world. Those are the people who should have a bunch of kids to make up for the rest of us who've opted out.

    My husband and I work, travel, spend loads of time biking, skiing, rock climbing, etc., charitable events, going to concerts and parties with friends, visiting galleries and museums, meeting new people, and our sex life rocks. We're always up for a new adventure, and we also get to choose when we want quiet time for ourselves. That's very important. For us, it will always beat changing diapers, chauffeuring kids around, saving for educations, fending off bullies, cleaning up puke and worse, managing a household, fighting over who does what, the list goes on. For us, it seemed like alot of work for little payoff in a 20-something year investment. We also didn't want to be in our late 50s or early 60s when we finally got our life back for ourselves.

    The few women I know who wanted a load of kids so they could stay home from work for 15 years did so for that exact reason. I don't know if they wanted to really be mothers, or just wanted the lifestyle and to eventually not work. Their kids were in school full time by the time they were 6 yrs old. So let's face it, if your kids are in school all day, what on earth is your wife doing all day while you work? You can't clean the house for 9 hrs a day every day, you can't do laundry or cook for 9 hrs a day every day either. If you get off on the idea of being the big man working so your little woman can be leisurely, then enjoy. But I can't imagine that the majority of men are attracted to a sponge. If your wife wants alot of kids and you don't, it's called a vasectomy gentlemen. Otherwise, keep punching that proverbial clock to bring home the bacon. Because the piggies are hungry and that trough needs to be filled.

    You have a fairly good idea of who you marry, and you get what you settle for.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Watch Bill Maher's documentary: Religulous

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    Steve 7 years ago

    Good Points Sue. Maybe if I had more female friends I could change my way of thinking. For me, I realize I have too much going on right now to do anything drastic anyway. My son will be 12 and my daughter will be 5 this month. I was away all weekend with my son's travel hockey. He plays sports and my daughter wants to go everywhere I go so to leave all this now would be stupid. If I had a choice between being single, plenty of dates but without my kids OR not so happily married with my 2 kids I would choose married with my 2 kids in a heartbeat. The grass wasn't always greener with some of my past choices with employment so I will carry that experience over to my marriage. I miss great "over the top" sex but I'll take what I get just to see my kids everyday. My brother who never had children would have loved his own kids and it shows. I'm gonna take all this in now then see where I'm at later on in life when the kids get older. I won't let my negative thoughts get the best of me. I ran into an old girlfriend a few months ago who rocked my world back in the day but she let her go so much (much more than my wife) that I couldn't even bring myself to hit that one more time. My "not so fun" wife looked like a Brazilian model next to her. I know some people don't like to hear this but I need to get God back into my life!!!!

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Ok guys, perhaps there really are women out there who get married and just stop caring about their husbands and their sex lives but I'm going to be honest, I know a lot of married women with children and that doesn't seem to be the case to me. I'm a married woman with 3 kids, 2 step kids and a shaky marriage (my husband had a long term affair. And no, not because I didn't give him sex. My husband's affair had a lot to do with my husband, not me. It had to do with how he grew up, his insecurities and his way of dealing with life and his choices that he made. It would have been better had he divorced me first, which is why I wouldn't recommend for any of you to have an affair). Please ask yourselves some basic questions...Do you still compliment your wife? Do you tell her she's a good cook? Do you mention her hair? Do you tell her how nice her dress looks? Did you tell her that you appreciate the fact that she's stayed in shape for 10 years, after kids? Do you criticize a lot? That's a for sure way to get your wife to withdraw? Do you give your wife that extra hour a day where you take the kids and she can get dressed without interruption, go get her nails done, go shopping with a girlfriend? Go for a coffee with her mom? Do you help with the housework? Sorry, some days after I've cleaned for 3 hours straight and no one helps, including the hubby, matter of fact, I've picked up as much of his stuff as the kid's...well, I don't feel really sexy then. Is your bedroom a "retreat"? Is it kid free? If your kids are young, put them down for a nap and then take one yourselves, when you aren't tired, perhaps it won't be maintenance sex then. (My parents were big nap takers, all through my childhood and teen years on the weekends...they've been married 40 years). Does your wife work a lot and then come home and do all the housework and laundry and cooking or do you divide it 50/50 since you both work? Or do you sit down with your beer and the tv since you've had a hard day at work? Are you guys running around all the time doing the kid thing, teams, events, etc? Do you go on dates with your wife occasionally? Do you let her choose the movies, tv shows? Do you talk to your wife? Ask her how her day went, listen to her concerns and then share about your day? Do you get along with her family? Do you send her flowers just because or even just bring her a Starbucks just because? Do you build her up so she knows she's attractive and sexy (even if she has stretch marks and a jelly roll) and still the woman you love? Honestly, it takes two to mess up a marriage, not just one. Even in my marriage with the affair I have some responsibility. I'm not taking any blame for his choice to have an affair mind you, I'm just saying that it takes two...so keep that in mind. And one last question, everyone says their wife has changed, yet they have not. How can you get married, have kids, build a family, buy a house, and all those things that naturally come along and not be changed? Sorry, but if you are just like you were, which was single, not responsible for another person but yourself, how can you be a parent and a spouse? Just throwing that thought out there. And my one last thought is that any man or woman who is having an affair, if they took all that energy and time that they just put into the affair, if they put it all into their marriage, well I think that marriage would have improved. So taking that thought, think about the energy you could put into your marriage. And if you and your wife don't love each other, get divorced, and both of you find someone else regardless of the age of your children. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there from a woman's point of view that may or may not help. It's not easy being a working mom these days and a wife. The world expects so much of you and you really need your husband to be your support and to be there for you, so just make sure before you sell your wives short that you are doing that for yours also. And just being in the marriage and being a good dad but not there for your wife, she'll sense that and things will just get worse, that I can guarantee. Just writing this blurb I was interrupted about 4 times...kids!!! They are a lot of work and they take up most of your time. No, you can't ignore your spouse but they definitely have to have your time and your love to turn into successful people.

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    Jake 7 years ago

    Guest,

    Wow. I wish every woman thought like you and there would probably alot less cheating.....and men, of course need to do their part. Now that I've "aired" all of this with my wife, she vows to change (again) but always goes right back to the same routines. The funny thing is in ten years of marriage, I'm the same guy she married. She on the other hand is completely different....and I'm supposed to adapt. I married a fun loving, sexy, funny, hot woman.....where did she go? She stills takes care of herself (stays in shape) but everything else is gone. Just because we had kids doesn't mean the passion and sex have to disappear for the next twenty years, and by then we'll forget how to do it. It's bull. Don't get me wrong, I get some here and there, but it's with no emotion and I think she'd rather just go to sleep. Not good enough for me. To me, sex is the basis for the entire relationship and how you got to where you are. I didn't walk in the bar that night and go "so, how's 3 kids and a nice suburban house sound? what are you best child rearing skills?"

    So, in my mind, I am waiting it out. 17 years of child support for 3 and alimony and living in an apartment doesn't sound so appealing right now. I give it another 2 to 5 years and I'm out. Life is too short and if she won't change, I'll continue to love her as the mother of my children, but I'll find somebody who really loves me. I'll continue to be the best dad I can be, and hopefully, life will be fun again.

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    guest 7 years ago

    I am a 27 yr old female with 3 kids. I feel like men or women who have affairs are getting joy from an outside source just like when stay at home mothers need time away from the kids to find peace and happiness. I think people need to judge cheating less, I have been cehated on and I also cheat so I know both sides and the pain but I know that its not fair or realistic to ask a man to be unhappy lonely and sex deprived for 20 years because he chose to have kids. Women need to step up their sex game and also having kids doesnt mean throw your husbnads need to the back burner.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    Things aren't always what they appear to be!

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    Steve 7 years ago

    One more thing about the park and how people need to change their outlook including myslef. I thought is was the craziest thing in the world as I watched this 50 something year old man going down a kids sliding board. He looked so ridiculous. I mildly laughed and poked fun while shaking my head. Nobody saw me as I just sat there on the park bench with my son. A minute later I saw this same man trying to raise his young son with Down Syndrome up onto the monkey bars. Of course I realized that he only went down the slide to show his son how it works. Man did I feel terrible. This man taught me a lesson and I even considered this a message from heaven for a moment. A message reminding me how lucky I am to have two healthy kids that adore me and their mother. Sometimes I feel so guilty for my thoughts and at times blame it on losing my religion over the years. I still feel cheated on the romantic side of life and know that my wife will never be that lovey dovey "fun" type but it certainly could be a lot worse. I had more admoration and respect for that stranger than anyone ever before. He probably has a great marriage. He taught me a lesson that I can't explain. I want to thank him here on this board.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    I hear ya Jake. Mentioning the spreadsheet made me laugh which I needed. I'm gonna be patient for a while. Heck, I've been marring 15 years so what's a little more time. My wife can be "okay" at times but she just needs to learn to have fun and stop being a stickler all the time. I love to act goofy and wish she had more personality. Try not to take life too serious all the time. I'm not gonna say anymore bad cause she works hard too and is a good mother. It could be worse but it definitely could be better too. Hearing about all the Hollywood stars cheating on their wives everyday along with the links Veronica sent sort of make me feel like I'm the only one NOT having an affair.

    Is there anyone out there that hasn't cheated? Would love to hear from that side. It's a good thing I'm not around a lot of temptation or I would fall like a house of cards. This past weekend I spent time with my two kids at the park and it was an incredible day. Kids are a lot of work but the innocence is truly priceless. I never want to shatter that. I think this is why men "sneak around". However, I certainly wouldn't know from experience. In regards to Hollywood at least there are a few good examples like Wil Smith, Tom Hanks and even Obama...at least for now!

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    Mark 7 years ago

    Hi again

    Thanks for clearing things up for me. I haven't taken the 'telling my girlfriend' plunge yet but I will let you know how it goes.

    Just out of interest. When my gf first told me she was pregnant, I was torn apart because on the one hand I did not want to let her down. I know she wanted the child. It was a terrible feeling that situation was out of my control and she would inevitably make a choice and I would have to accept it. I'm thankful I approached some very smart older work colleagues who sat me down and gave me some decent advice. They told me if I had any doubts now and if I'm doing it to please her, I'd be going down a road that I could easily and dismally regret.

    Persuading her to go ahead with the abortion was tough enough. The strange thing was that the night she told me she was pregnant, I wanted to have the 'not having kids discussion' with her. Obviously I had to put that on hold. And I have now for almost 8 months because I know she was and is still is sensitive about this.

    Don't get me wrong! I sincerely love my girlfriend. It's just that kids are something I'm not really up to. I wish there was some way we could work things out. Somewhere we could go and temporarily play with someone elses kids without having our own. I'd love that. The world has many unwanted kids. I'm happy to share my love with them.. for a few hours at a time. It's not that I'm selfish, I'm just not up to the task. Or not yet at least.

    I admit that there are benefits and joys that kids can provide. Perhaps on a level I can't understand. I just feel that reward/risk ratio is too high for me to part take. Furthermore, what bothers me the most is the fact that family, friends, society etc, does not encourage people to take counseling before having kids. Instead people are encouraged to take a great leap of faith without any calculations and then deal with the consequences.

    Unfortunately, I feel this is quite reckless and the unfolding disasters as a result can easily be found on forums and hubs around the globe. My heart goes out to all of those who have suffered due to this.

    As for my girlfriend. I have to respect her wishes and find out a way of letting her go if she feels children are so important. We have been quite close through everything we've faced and it's going to be a grueling challenge. Whenever I've mentioned my lack of desire for children, I've always felt that she hopes that one day I can change and she can twist my arm into having them. I'm not sure if other women do this too. I guess I need to lay down my intentions clearly.

    My question here is as follows. Should I attempt to break things up between us and take a hard stance because I feel here intentions for children are clear. If she seems willing to continue the relationship and promises to compromise on kids in the future, should I let the relationship continue? Or is this dangerous territory? It's really tough, but I got to do some scenario planning with this one.

    Thanks again. I'm most grateful for you taking the time to read my thoughts and mussings.

    Bryan

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Mark,

    You absolutely made the right decision.

    And you're right, you do need to separate if she's actually asking you to promise to have kids one day. She sounds very sweet. She wants a life different than you want. I don't know if she realizes how much having children changes things, or even if she is "hearing" you as her partner saying you do not want kids.

    I feel very bad for her. Really, my heart goes out to her.

    You need to tell her the absolute truth, and you need to let things separate. You can't give her the life she wants to have. She will not allow the relationship you have with her to be enough if she wants children this badly. She will never be happy with you.

    I'm very very proud of you for researching, reading, thinking, articulating, and making the right decisions for yourself. Having a child changes the rest of your entire life in a very big dramatic way. Forever. Way too many people, especially men, do it without thinking it through.

    This is going be hard. I do not envy you. But I really am proud of you, and I'm sure you will handle this separation the best you can.

    Please keep in touch.

    Namaste.

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    Mark 7 years ago

    Dear Veronica

    Thanks for the insight on this page and all your others. I discovered it today and put aside all my studying because it was so captivating.

    I'm a 29 year old male and I have happily been with my girlfriend(28) for 2 years. We've been through a painful abortion (she came off birth control without telling me, she claims the doctors told her she couldn't get pregnant soon after coming off. I'm willing to go her on this.)

    The abortion was shocking for both of us. For her, she has always wanted a child and for me it was a case of realizing the tremendous responsibility was about to unfold. She's has recovered quite well I believe but I know she still wants kids. Just before the taking the abortion pills, she asked me to promise that one day we could have a baby together. Under the strain of the moment, I still answered

    that we could address this issue in due course.

    From this whole experience, I have learnt a lot about myself and done a lot of research about kids. I've never really felt the desire for children (let alone marraige) - the reasons are numerous e.g. I suffer from depression, low self esteem, feel my genes are not something I want to pass on, financial implications, time and emotional sacrifice etc. Like many men, I love kids, just not my own. In fact, I teach kids every day and I love interacting with them, but am intimidated by putting up with them 24-7-365*20 something. Another affect of the abortion is that I'm totally off sex. Maybe only have it once every month or two and that still feels forceful. As you can imagine, my gf is concerned about this as am I.

    The question I have (sorry for taking so long to cut to the chase) is how should I approach my girlfriend, who is getting broodier these days, and let her know how I feel. I realize that this means we might need to separate for her to move on. I've prepared myself for that. In fact, I have and still do feel guilty in this relationship because I don't want to hold her back from getting what she wants from a married life.

    The clock is ticking each day and she often brings up questions about "our kids" and what they may be like etc.

    While my gf and I are not the most attractive people (and hence might find it difficult to find someone else out these) in the world, we are generally happy with each other. I just can't help feeling that if she compromises and doesn't have kids because I don't want to, she will regret this tremendously and hold me accountable in the future.

    There are lots of things to ponder here. I guess I should just tell her exactly what I've written here. Any advice?

    Thank you tremendously.

    Mark

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Jake,

    Thank you. And thanks for commenting.

    It is very sad that your wife actually understood and validated what you tried to tell her, but that she just either didn't want to, or couldn't, reconnect to you romantically for good.

    You're right - you and Steve are certainly not alone.

    Namaste

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    Jake 7 years ago

    Steve,

    I'm going through the same exact situation, in fact, my situation is so similiar to yours, it's scary. I've been reading this posts for months looking for answers. I've sat down with my wife and completely layed out how I felt, she's felt the same but didn't think it was that bad. Like you, I don't want to live my life miserable just for the kids. I've been married for 10 years and have been miserable for the last 7. I keep hoping things get better but I'm digging my self deeper into a hole (ie. new house, another baby).

    Like you, I growing tired of the "maintence" sex, meaning "I'll do it but it's realy not that important to me". She's changed so much since we had kids. I love my kids but I miss my wife. I told her all this, she says she gets it and changes for a week, but keeps going back to the same patterns. I talk to all my married friends and their in the same position. Of course, I thought about an affair but I don't think that would get me anywhere.

    At this point, I'm starting to mentally check out of my marriage. I'm starting to look at the finances and what child support and alimony are going to cost (I have a freaking spreadsheet). I am just concerned about the kids at this point and trying to figure out the smoothiest way to move on with the smallest impact on her and them. I will absolutely support them and I will continue to be the best dad I can. I think it's just a matter of time but I'm not sure when that is going to be and if I can make it. My kids are fairly young so, I think the sooner the better.

    Long story short, your not alone man.

    Veronica, love your blogs...keep it up.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve,

    Definitely no attacks and no judgments. I still give you alot of credit for trying to be honest.

    You may be right, it may be too late. And if it's over, then it's over. Get out. Stop with the wanting your cake and eating it too. Just man-up and do what you need to do. Leave your wife honestly, so that you can both have some dignity and so that your kids can respect you.

    I'm 43, and I'm still that kid that grew up in that house, with the cheating father. Your wife sounds alot like my mother - not affectionate, would always scream infront of me, always made my father out to be the bad guy.

    But instead of setting a decent example, he cheated. And she never kicked him out for it. (And then there's a whole history of the mistresses, especially the one that started leaving feces on our doorstep when she figured out she was one of many and he had lied to her, too.)

    Steve. I swear to god, had he just ever been honest and said "I can't do this anymore," and divorced her, I would have grown up respecting him. Sure it would have been hard for a little while, but I would have loved and respected him for treating all of us with dignity. I would remember him as a man. It would have set the example of honesty, trust, and self respect, and I wouldn't have spent the first half of my life fucked up and lashing out because I lacked those things.

    But no. Instead of being decent and real, he had affairs. Instead of teaching me self resepect, he taught me how to be liar and a cheat. He taught me no man is trustable. He taught me my entire childhood was a lie.

    I will never forgive him for all the damage he caused.

    Now, it doesn't matter what went wrong between the two of them. It doesn't matter that he was right and my mother was the cause. It just doesn't matter. He erased that. All that matters is that he handled it like a piece of shit lying asshole.

    He's dead now, and when I think of him, forever, for the rest of my life, the very first thing that comes to mind - coward.

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Steve,

    No attack at all from me, please don't take it that way, just giving you some of the horror of my experience in hopes that it will give you something to think about it. I guess we aren't so far apart in what we want, I don't think many of us are. Many of the things you've mentioned I want to, closeness and affection and of course passion so I in no way shape or form blame you for that. And people do grow apart. I would just say from my experience I don't think having an affair to see if it would be better would be best for you but that's just my personal opinion. Mostly I guess because you would have to live with the fall out. And so would your family. I don't have an answer for you unfortunately, you will eventually have to work out your situation on your own but I am guessing since you too wrote in that you wouldn't mind hearing from others...if I were your friend and we were sitting together talking I'd tell you the exact same thing...that from my experience I haven't seen a lot of positive come out of affairs.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Sue,

    I will not post any email you send, and your email addy will not be shared. You're safe.

    V

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Question Veronica, if I email you at the contact Veronica, those emails aren't posted, correct? If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to say a little bit more about my stepson and my other children but I'm out of my comfort zone now, posting about my kids in a public forum. I guess it would be good for me to hear perhaps what you could say since you say you grew up this way...

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    Steve 7 years ago

    Sue & Veronica thanks for your comments. I recently checked the site and didn't expect a response so I was glad to see such helpful and informative ones. I would like to elaborate just a little bit more. My wife was never affectionate from day one. I used to bring this up when we were "young and in love". She would change for a week or so then back to her old self as always. I'm almost ashamed to say because men don't really say these things bit I enjoy hugging, kissing, necking but my wife and I have never really done these things much and haven't for many years. The sex and foreplay was always there but I do miss the other things. We've both let ourselves to the tune of maybe 25 lbs each and I think we hit the point of no return (romantically that is). The years are passing and I feel the need to feel good again. I feel as though I am "missing out" on things. As far as my home and children I would consider myself a rich man and couldn't ask for more. One month ago we had an argument and I nearly left for good. She cries in front of our children which makes me look like the beast. I say to myself "if they only knew facts and not just the tears" We never agree on anything. I have to get angry for my opinions to matter and it's always the wiser choice. I'm not an angry person by nature. I know I have my faults too and often try to regroup and push forward with a better more positive outlook. I keep going around in circles. I created a profile on a dating website but didn't add my picture yet only because there are lies involved and that makes me reluctant. I work in a construction facility so meeting someone at work is nearly impossible. Maybe I should just find a good strip joint or massage parlor?? The only thing stopping me now is when I hear people say they don't want kids or marriage is the thing of the past. I feel sorry for those that never had children. It's not their fault I feel this way and it's not my fault either. It's just two people grown apart. I just dont' know if the single life is any better. It might be in my future. I just don't know what's best for ME. I need more happiness! Please don't attack my comments because they are true and from the heart.

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Sue,

    I really feel for your step-son. He's the one I relate to. That's how I grew up. And the damage is just unbelievable.

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    Sue 7 years ago

    Steve,

    I'm a wife who's husband cheated on her for years...I found the hubpages when I started googling "other women" because I didn't know what else to do when it seemed that no one else close to me had cheating spouses like mine. I hope you read through the long lists of posts on this hub and Veronica's other hub about Other Women, about After the Affair. If you read through all those posts from so many hurting and so many people who were damaged and you still choose to have an affair before leaving your marriage I would say God help you, because you'll need it. If I could send you in my husband's direction (he'd be mortified if he knew what I've posted out in the anonymity of the web...but for me it's just a way of getting something off my chest) I would. He's not happy. I'm not happy. I know our older kids know this, I know our families, sisters, brothers, parents know this...our younger kids probably sense it but don't understand it...sadly enough we didn't have to get here. It was a selfish choice on my husband's part to have affairs. I see that you have written it's more or less a lack of passion. (I will be honest with you, that wasn't our case as my husband and I managed to have another child after the affair became known...not that I would recommend this to anyone but I love my youngest so I'm not going to regret his birth in the slightest but I realize it might not have been the wisest course of actions everything considered) Have you honestly talked to your wife and explained all of this? Really sat her down and let her know that this is the most serious conversation of your married life? If you love her please do so. And if you know in your heart that you need to be with another woman please do it the right way and separate from your wife, get divorced, support your children and then move on. Most men don't marry or stay with the women they have affairs with. How can a relationship built on lies, lies to your wife, lies to the other woman, be a solid good relationship? How can it last what life throws at you, the ups and downs, based on a false start? How will you feel about yourself? Many married men who have affairs then suffer from depression? Would you want to tell your kids about what you did? My husband can't approach the subject with his son, whom he drug into the relationship (which he did from what I understand-or perhaps this is a lie also-to convince his ow that he was separated from me...why would a man living with his wife bring their kids around the ow?) but my step son is in pain about the situation. He's even felt at times it was his fault because he didn't tell me. Being a teenager is hard enough let alone having to deal with this situation that didn't have to be. Yes, I would have been upset to get divorced all those years ago, but it would have been a lot less of a mess for all of us involved, including my husband. I am sorry this is such a long response but I hope it gives you a reason not to have an affair, or at least give you something to chew over in your mind...no one will be happy, not even you I believe, if you have that affair...

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    Veronica 7 years ago from NY

    Steve,

    Thanks so much for commenting.

    I wrote a Hub directly to you, posting it now. I hope that you will read it.

    https://hubpages.com/relationships/Married-Men-Bef...

    In it, I point out another Hub I wrote, Affairs with Married Men.

    Please, before you do anything, please consider reading it and some of the comments. It's so incredibly destructive what an affair does, to absolutely everyone. It's not the answer.

    https://pairedlife.com/problems/Affairs_with_Marri

    I just received a comment on that one, from a person named "Sue" that really just reflects so much of the pain and confusion and damage, and ends with what example was set for her step-son. It's brutal, but I hope you'll read it.

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    Steve 7 years ago

    I've only read a few of the posts and gonna print out all of these and read them later. Right off the bat I can relate to so many others. I have been married for 15 years and knew my wife 3 years earlier. I met my wife when I was 22 and married at 25. I have been unhappy for at least the past 5 years. I have two children and of course love them more than everything but I miss so many other things. Sex is usually quick and now that the kids are getting older most of the time is not a "good time". Some nights I can barely stay up past ten o' clock because I work long hours. I work so hard as does my wife and we barely make ends meat. Saving for the future or retirement is not realistic. I can't stop thinking about meeting somebody else. I have never cheated on my wife but I'm afarid my urges will lead me to cheat someday soon. I simply miss the touch and company of another woman. I haven't kissed or even held hands in years. I'm older but I'm not dead. I keep myslef as busy as possible with the kids to help me forget just how unhappy I am. I hate it when I hear people say if your unhappy you should just leave. Oh, I wish it was that easy. It's not even that I hate my wife or anything like that but I just don't feel passion anymore. I can see why married men cheat. I might be that person one day soon. I can also see why men don't leave their wives and nice homes then cheat. Why lose everything first then cheat? Maybe if I cheated and later realized that the grass wasn't greener on the other side then maybe finally I can put all my wonders aside. I just want to be happy. I just want everyone to be happy!

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    evan 7 years ago

    veronica I just want to tell you that this hub saved my marriage. i was exactly like the person you described. we should not have had kids. we had no clue what we were getting in to. we were not prepared. and my wife changed so much. i was so miserable. i could not live life any more like that. i was googling for advice and found this. it was a year ago. i did what you said and told my wife we had to talk. at first she refused, kept walking away from me. but i kept after her and kept telling her i was ready to walk out. either she had to listen, or a divorce lawyer would. she locked herself in the bathroom. i sat on the floor outside the door and just told her everything. i did not even know for sure if she was listening. but she was. she came out hours later she had been crying but she said she wanted to talk.

    we couldn't agree on much but i was trusting you advice and thought much of what we both were upset over might get fixed if she had more time. i talked to my boss and it was easy to change my schedule to go in an hour later. i just take only a half lunch and i stay a half hour later every day. at first she didn't want to get up she just wanted the extra hour sleep. then she started getting up and like you said would go to curves. she did not want to get made up that early in the day but thats ok. she started doing it later.

    she wanted more time to herself and i could really see the difference it was making so i was all for it. it wasn't that hard. we found a local high schooler that comes over one day a week after school. it's just one day a week for an hour and a half to two hours. my wife goes and gets her nails done. i think the manicure is around ten and the babysitter is another ten. i can swing that. i go out of my way to take the kids more and give her a break and it had completely overhauled her personality. now she wants to take a kick boxing class three times a week. we're figuring it out, maybe like you said the grandmoms can step in.

    she is back to caring about her appearance. she wears make up and shoes again. she isn't always tired and mad at me and resentful acting. we are physical again. i sent her flowers for no reason this week and boy did that ever make her feel great. it is so simple it is embarrassing. these answers were so simple and right there in our faces.

    i want to thank you veronica. it was so easy to just give her time to herself. it has made all the difference in our marriage. i will be honest, and admit i don't love her like i did when we got married. but i am not miserable anymore. we have a good relationship. we are friends again. i don't dread going home. i look forward to it. i am mostly happy again. i know i can make my marriage work now and be happy. thank you for this.

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    Angela 7 years ago

    I appreciate your straightforward honesty. Most people sugar coat everything, and almost nobody "tells it like it is". So glad you are willing to do it. :)

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    Yep... 7 years ago

    I agree totally with the article...that's why I'm staying until the kids get into college and then I'm off to see the world-by myself!