ArtsAutosBooksBusinessEducationEntertainmentFamilyFashionFoodGamesGenderHealthHolidaysHomeHubPagesPersonal FinancePetsPoliticsReligionSportsTechnologyTravel

Just Because You Have Boobs, Doesn't Make You a Woman

Updated on April 25, 2015

Sex change changes everything

One of my first hubs, over two years ago, was about my experience with my dad when he got a sex change. I wrote from my heart. I wrote, not caring about whom I pissed off or who thought I was weird or ignorant. That original piece garnered more than 500 comments. This is all very personal for me, but it was daring transparency that began my journey writing on hubpages. I'm tearing up old roots, digging deep, and finally giving this story an update. I’m dusting the cobwebs off and even losing some psychological baggage here.

The back story is basically about 10 years ago my dad dropped a bomb on me that he got a sex change- everything done, new name, breast implants, different personality, etc. I was shocked and thought him to be careless about not even giving me a warning. I grieved my dad and tried to welcome a new woman into my life. Let’s just say our relationship has been turbulent, and not just because of my dad's change.

all woman on the outside... a transsexual beauty contest
all woman on the outside... a transsexual beauty contest
Yes, even this could be a man. Hmmm...
Yes, even this could be a man. Hmmm...

It is a psychological disorder

Gender identity disorder (GID) or gender dysphoria is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant (discontent) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones.

Acceptance has it's downfalls

Many years ago when I first laid eyes on my dad as a "woman", frankly I saw him/her as a clown. I didn't see a woman at all. That was my first mistake- I was looking for a woman. The first visits, I would search hopelessly for my long lost dad, then later visits I gave up that endeavor and accepted seeing my dad as a person, not really one gender or the other. This helped quite a bit.

I think it's commendable that's today's society is becoming "progressive" in acceptance and tolerance- or the grey area in humanity, but this has some downfalls as well. I am my dad's daughter and I was raised to question things- not just accept. I really hope humanity does not lose this ability in search for ultimate tolerance. If we lose this ability we lose the ability to help. Often times we learn of someone being homosexual or transsexual and the progressive self says, "good for them!" yet my background in psychology always triggers something that says, "is there more to this?"

Of course this questioning is looked down upon if I am to be a good progressive citizen, but honestly we look down upon and create a stigma around mental illness that sometimes these grey areas coincide with something that needs to be addressed other than accepted.

My dad explained only a few things about his sex change and one was that he always remembered "being in the wrong body", not feeling right with the male anatomy. But this clashed with my thoughts of who a woman was. My dad was raised as a boy and didn't go through the typical life events of a girl to woman. My dad was nothing like a woman and when he/she acted like it, it was purely an act. Seeing my dad as a woman was like watching a Saturday Night Live skit about a man dressed up pretending to be a woman. It seemed more unnatural.

A reoccurring thought in my head all these years is what does it mean to be a woman? Can anyone just "feel like a woman" with the slash of a knife or the growth of a luxurious mane? Why do male to female transsexuals think they need to look like a woman on the outside to feel like a woman on the inside? So my dad gets a few surgeries and suddenly he's a woman? Hold the phone...shut the front door!!!! Folks, it ain't that easy! I've been a woman for quite a while and I'm telling you...it ain't that easy.


Present day

Over the years, my dad has morphed into someone I still do not recognize as a woman. The closest resemblance to a woman is probably the awkwardness in my dad's body language that screams teenage girl all over it. Flaunting and then hiding scared- the constant dance between uncertainty and excitement, but definitely someone who will never be a woman.

The biggest component of this last visit was my realization that looks do not make a woman. We like to think so, it's easiest to classify women from what we see on the outside. You could give a giraffe stripes but that doesn't make them a tiger. The woman that many transsexuals think they are is a creation between society's superficial standards (clothes, makeup) and the medical community's insistence upon matching the inside with the outside and getting surgery- they honestly just fear the tendency for suicide rather than really treat someone for Gender Identity Disorder.

The medical community is just as guilty as the one-sided groups of people in society- those that get accused of condemning others for not being like them. The medical community insists that if a man doesn't want to be a man, then they must be a woman and a sex change is the only way they will be happy. What happened to an option in between, perhaps both happily coexisting in the same body?

The problem when a man gets the sex change he's been waiting for, probably for a long time (my dad waited until he was 55), the man they once were and perhaps detested, is still inside them. It doesn't go away. Rather than accepting that man, they shun him and believe he disappears once the sex reassignment surgeries are complete. The identification with both male and female is still present on the inside yet on the outside it is made to be one or the other. The inconsistencies and cognitive dissonance this person experiences is what often the family members see and why it can create feelings of disbelief, judgement, selfishness, and non-acceptance among everyone involved.

I saw that my dad tried to change who he was as a person, the personality and everything to go with the outside. Yet with transgender people I thought they always grew up wanting to match their inside to their outside and somehow, once my dad has his sex change, he was striving to match the inside to his outside.

my personal hero growing up!
my personal hero growing up!
mother and child
mother and child

On becoming a woman...

As a girl, I identified with my dad and at that time he was a strong male figure; accomplished in career, assertive in personal dealings, intelligent. But if you've read my back story on this, you'd also know my dad was a transvestite when I was little, meaning he would spend an evening or two a week dressed up in frilly stuff around the house. My thoughts on this weren't clear as a young child. When people believe it has nothing to do with mental illness, I think they need to live it because a child has no idea what to do with dad dressed up nor should a mentally sound adult expose them to it.

I disassociated with the frilliness of this female side for years, well into my teens, I shied away from frilly girly items. That girliness didn't settle well with me and I never figured out why until this last visit with my dad- it just came to me.

I think I had that epiphany because since my dad is technically a "woman", I realize I am truly all woman. Now don't laugh because you all can say, 'Of course you are. Who would have doubted the obvious?' But it took me time to realize the outside doesn't make a woman- I don't have to be dressed up and frilly. For years my dad made me feel that frilly equated woman and since I wasn't frilly I thought less about myself as a woman.

It was sometime after my teen years that I knew I don't have to try to be a woman or try to dress like one. I just am. And I am a mother too, which really has completed my personal transition into womanhood. The instinctual nurturing and selflessness I have toward my child is who my mom was, not my dad. I look back and I was confused, my mom was my role model.

What is interesting about my mom and dad- married for 18 years and divorced now for more than that- is my dad picked on my mom for her traits that were distinctively female. This could have been jealousy all those years because he desired so badly to be a woman. But now that my dad has been a "woman" for at least 10 years, he picks at those traits in me. It used to irritate me and something this last visit changed- it made me proud to be a woman. Those traits including being emotional, worrying about my child, changing my mind, soft and sappy- yep, I'm a woman.


My best friend

My best friend is a man who wants to be a woman. No, it's not my dad, sadly. However, I met a wonderful human being on my original article here. We have gotten to know each other now for years and talk on a daily basis. He says "I saved his life!" I'm seriously humbled by this, but I won't take the credit. He read my articles about my dad and at the time wanted to transition from male to female, but after reading what I'd written, he changed his mind.

What makes him a beautiful friend in my eyes is this comment, "what woman leaves her child?" If he transited, he would be taking away the father his kids always knew. A woman doesn't do that and while he still feels a strong connection to both his male and female side, he doesn't believe surgery is the answer, nor do I. He is thought of as strange when he visits his transgender group- he is a trans who doesn't need to change so dramatically.

The lesson: if we truly are who we are, we don't have to match the outside really. Burn victims don't change who they truly are if their outside appearance has changed. The compulsion for transgender to transition fully and have surgery comes from an impulse, which stems from an obsession that manifests from mental miswiring. Nobody likes anything to do with mental illness which perpetuates the stigma in our society. Mental illness or even some miswiring isn't "bad", it just needs some assistance which we neglect to do as a people, a government, and society.

What now?

Being around my dad is a heavy burden- one I don't choose often. I see someone who believed in a sex reassignment miracle and only seems more confused than ever. The woman in me pities the man and girl in him/her. He/she will likely be lost forever; nobody understanding him and even him/her not understanding herself. My dad still believes he has a switch between being a woman and a man and turn one or the other on and off at will.

I do believe one person can be both, a little of both always present. I do believe a man can strongly identify with women and still be a man on the outside without a sex change. I don't think our society has gotten that far yet- many are still programmed to be one or the other. And the public doesn't want to guess, they want one or the other as well.

Another possibility...

Androgyny- "Androgyny is the combination of masculine and feminine characteristics. Sexual ambiguity may be found in fashion, gender identity, sexual identity, or sexual lifestyle."

I wish we'd hear about this more often, but we still haven't progressed to the notion that people can be a little or a lot of both. We still live in a world where we group people into male or female. I believe once we make it to this destination and accept some people are BOTH then we will have troubled transgenders who insist they must have sex reassignment surgery upon the basis of what the medical community and society tell them. In other words, they won't be happy without the surgery, which is sad.

Comments

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 2 years ago from The Great Northwest

      THanks James- I didn't see this comment until now! Thanks for stopping by!

    • SubRon7 profile image

      James W. Nelson 2 years ago from eastern North Dakota

      Outstanding hub, Laura, and I can really feel for you having to deal with your dad in that way, especially when you were young. But look at the woman you have grown into.

      My best wishes to you, and honored to know you!

      James W. Nelson

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Joan,

      You say, "Full of hate. The part where you say you are supportive to your father "but hide your true feelings" is very troubling. This certainly isn't supportive."

      I am supportive by letting my dad be- I don't bring any ill feelings up. I let him/her be who he wants.

      I hide my true feelings because I am afraid my dad will tear me down and not love me anymore if I talk about my feelings. Believe it or not people in these situations have feelings- it's not just the trans. As a child talking about feelings was discouraged. In fact my dad would laugh at me when I cried, even when he was around as some kids picked on me and I cried...he laughed.

      I don't want your empathy- I wrote this for the truth to get out. That ex-wife who wrote the book out of anger- maybe that was her motive. I write this passionately out of education. Often the families of trans are forgotten about, nobody knows their feelings. As a society we have empathy for the minority group- I grew up living a lie and as a parent myself now, I no longer sit idly by and forgive. I used to make every excuse for my dad but now I'm a parent and I know there's no way in hell a real woman would treat their child like the way I was treated. Just because a woman can have children doesn't mean every woman is meant to be a mother- that's the point of this hub. Just because you have boobs it doesn't make you a woman.

      recent studies show it IS HEALTHY to get it out. I believe educating, giving my story is a healthy outlet. Is there anger- sometimes but it only comes up during yearly visits with my dad. Otherwise I focus on my writing, my kids, my husband, my life. I have a healthy marriage and healthy kids...good enough for me. Do I think people are blinded by empathy for some trans? Yep!

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Bobi,

      If it all was left in childhood I'd forgive because it would be in the past, but the mental games/abuse is always present every time I see my dad...and now does it with my daughter. I do not forgive nor do I have to sacrifice my daughter to make my dad feel OK.

      My dad wants my children to call him grandpa so that's why I refer to her as him sometimes. Actually I don't really know because he/she never told me what he would like me to call him as far as pronouns- "he" still wants me to call him dad so I assumed "he" is OK.

      "Life exepenses". My mom and I lived in a car for a couple of weeks and struggled through most of my childhood while I saw my dad spend lots of money on Gucci brand clothes and accessories, etc.

      My answer to you...I'm not forgiving just because my dad is a trans- we are made to "feel sorry" for minority groups. I judge a person as a person. And boobs don't make a woman. Just because a woman can have a baby doesn't mean she should or would make a good mom- and that's the point of this hub.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Missy,

      as usual there seems to be so much anger or hostility. You don't have to think like me or Jeanine or answer to us for anything. We've all said what we need to and I don't think we'll get any closer to agreeing with your point of view.

      Joy,

      wow well said and not because I agree with you, but because you're speaking from experience- you are going down this road and owned up to it as a teen. That's the trans I believe are well adjusted. My dad in particular transitioned age 55! Really? Just strange- it if was truly an urge or somebody you must be, wouldn't it be more urgent to get it done earlier? To live life mostly as a male leaves out a whole lot of experience as a female so can you truly be a female?

      Jeanine,

      I agree- if you can't have children physically (as a male-to-female) then do the next best thing and take care of the children you have in marriage and be the best parent and person. I love the last sentence on your comment!

    • profile image

      jeanine 3 years ago

      I believe for a woman to pass as a gender variant or as a genetic woman is so important in every woman's life... late transition is such a debilitating thing for the family... I just couldn't do it to my children... or lets say I have been successful thus far in avoiding full transition... and I say this because it is a constant battle each day for me...my children know but they are also very thankful that I have considered them in my decision... and for every reason that matters in my life... that thankfulness in them and respect for what I am willing to to for and with them is very important and very much appreciated from me to them... I have taken the pain and suffering that has continued to follow me because I haven't transitioned fully... and tried to use it to my advantage... and now after years of suffering I am sure I am further along than I would have been because I have been able to associate my suffering to that of a real woman... I guess where there's a will there's always a way...for the one thing that I have noticed about genetic woman is... most will suffer even willingly for their children... and I haven't met one genetic female that have actually hurt their children on purpose... I'm not saying that every transsexual willingly hurts their children but what I am saying is... I'm not willing to hurt my own children after reading how wounded this child( Izettl) has expressed in her hubs... and as much as I want to be a woman fully in body as well as in my soul... I am not willing to hurt my children nor my wife for my own pleasure or my own person... Sara I think that you considered that you need to look the part before taking the final step is so important and very mature... in your out look at what it takes to live as a woman in this world... for me to be in help groups for years and ask the same question..."what will your family(wife and children) think about you changing.... and then here the same answer over and over..."well they'll have to get used to it or they'll have to accept it"... it just to much for me some times... the reason it is to much for me is... in all my life living here on earth... the only people I've ever heard say something like that and not really care how long it took for the persons they were discussing to accepted their opinion.... have only been men... so I am suspect of any woman who looks at their children and says... I will hurt them but then they will get over it... because they have no choice... I don't know any woman on earth that would do that to her children... and I think it's because children to genetic woman are human beings that are flesh of their flesh and bone of their bone, so they know if they hurt their children, they are hurting themselves... the only people on earth that don't know this to be a fact of life and of living... are men or males... and I think that is because they didn't carry the children nor have they sacrificed for that child to live... every genetic woman knows because she has given of her very life for these children to live... again I am not judging anyone else... I'm simply saying I can't do it... knowing that they are my children and I have taught them to have faith, have courage, have creative ways about them that will help them cope in life... my conscience mind or my un-conscience mind will not allow it... for a woman is a completed woman in my mind if she can have a child... and if you can't have a child... the next best thing is to be sure to whole a complete awareness than you would literally die for this child...

    • profile image

      jeanine 3 years ago

      Joy, you sound delightful like your name and I am in agreement... I do think we have to take responsibility for our actions... my children as well as my wife have always only loved me... so it would be the most selfish thing in the world to turn their lives upside down for my own desires... I look at it as a kin to a drug addict saying well... I'm an addict so fuck my family..I'm gonna do these drugs because I need then to feel whole... a little severe I admit but it does feel a bit like that to me.... I have to deal with this each day and most of it, is wonderful... I love that I have a different opinion than the guys and love that I can live and love in a deeper place in most all of my relationships, because of the gender gift... and although I would love to be myself and live a complete life as myself... I do have a complete life as a partner to a very loving woman who really does have a very heavy leaning toward lesbian out looks on the whole marriage thing, so there are some perks that I have been enjoying the entire marriage that I have only become a ware of in the last ten years... like many gender variants I was very shall we say in the dark about sex... so when I met my wife/husband, with whom I had my first sexual encounter... at 19 years old... can you believe I was that behind... emotionally... I was overwhelmed by sex, any kind of sex, every kind of sex that she was willing to teach me...lol...lol... so on my first night I ended up where I felt the most comfortable and that was with me going down on her... not because of some taboo or that I thought oh that's where we will start, but because I had not learned believe it or not what my boy parts were really for... duh... are my blonde roots showing, I hope this color looks good on me...lol... that was the beginning of my sexual education... and it was not until years later and that's right after my children were born that either of us realized that I never seemed to be satisfied sexually... the anger had built up over the years and I couldn't contain it any longer... I was fine with our sexual relationship as long as there was no intercourse... plus she had never given me a blow jog nor have I received one to this day... some will so say oh how sad, but I think it's one of the reasons I didn't transition completely.. almost like a saving grace so to speak... my of my friends who are gender variant hate their bodies... and that's so very sad to me... and although I wished my boobs were bigger, and the bits and pieces were not there between my thighs.. I don't hate this body... and I think it's because she never or we never paid much attention to mister winkie... if you know what I mean...by the time I found out what was driving my anger, it was to late for me to disavow my responsibilities to my children... plus I love them and I love my hubby wife... I never thought about not doing what she has always asked of me... it just seemed natural that she would be the head of the family... and I love being her man as well... I look really good in a man's suit and feel sexy wearing mens clothes... is that me in those clothes... why yes it is... do I see myself as a man... never.. but I can pretend pretty well in public and I love how I'm treated as a man... they have privilege that we can only dream about as women... plus I am a creative and I had the honor of being with my children everyday just as any other woman would have, so when those little babies latched on t my breast, I was so sorry I didn't have any milk for them... and oh my I did long for breast at that time and didn't understand my on feelings....however, it still didn't keep me from feeling the bond that most mommies get to experience... I've also realized that it's the suffering and pain that cis women go through for their families, that I seem to want to emulate in my own life. Call it a call to a lower station in life or whatever you'd like but the surrender I have found in putting others first, specially my family seems to have done it for me... and for those of us that know Izettl.. please make room in your heart of hearts for her... and her father... I know her and she gives him?her every possible chance to be the woman, yet I can understand why a child wouldn't want to give up their dad, especially if their dad showed no propensity to being or acting like a woman... I know she continues to try and give her another shot every time she can... Let me say this in closing... some years ago I was at my wits end and had decided to go ahead and transition... choosing to hurt all of those closet to me... I happened to read these hub pages and saw what transition could and can do to a father and his child... I decided against transition and it saved my family... for the rest of my life hopefully... does it hurt me inside, oh yes, do I have to fight the depression everyday, oh yes, do I suffer for my little ones... you damn right... and I would kill for them if you tried to hurt them in anyway... just like any other mommy on earth... so I guess I'm like you as well Joy... if you are young and know you are a woman then by all means transition and live your life, but if you are mid age and have a family, and realize this gift is yours... for God's sake... your families sake and most of all for your own sake... woman up and try on that dress over the chair called suffering and pain .... she gave it all, for her loved ones...

    • profile image

      Joy 3 years ago

      As a 21 year old mtf transsexual who started hormones at 18 (started male puberty at 15.. hehe lucky me)

      I find it selfish when middle "trans" "women" transition. . . I'm sorry..

      I needed to do this. So I did it damn fast.. before puberty mutilated my body! !

      If you truly are trans.. then why didn't you transition as a teenager?

      Too afraid?? Pathetic!

      If you have married and had children than it is now your job to care for them and protect them from suffering. . . Even I feel pity and embarrassment for manish middle aged CD looking transsexuals..

      Why?

      Just why?

      They are truly selfish. . I was always feminine. . I played with dolls and dressed up with my semi identical twin sister all the time.. I am still the same person I always was..

      If you have to change. . Then you shouldn't really be transitioning.. isn't the whole point of transitioning to match your body with your spirit & brain?? So isn't changing ones personality, beliefs, values.. everything! Kinda tossing the concept into the fucking garbage?

      #SELFISH

    • profile image

      Joan 3 years ago

      Thanks for sharing your story. I think a lot of the discussion of "two spirited" is true for some transgender people. It does seem like your still having anger toward your father after all these years is so unhealthy. She clearly wasn't a "transvestite" as you state. What you perceive as lying I read as trying to get by with being transsexual in a society that makes that very difficult especially during that time frame. This hub reminds me of the book a wife of a transsexual wrote shortly after divorce. Full of hate. The part where you say you are supportive to your father "but hide your true feelings" is very troubling. This certainly isn't supportive.

    • profile image

      Bobi 3 years ago

      I don't understand why after 10, or more, years, you haven't forgiven you dad for not paying for all of your lifes expenses until after you got your degree. Have you ever thought about calling her '' her''? After all this time you still refer to her as him, or him/her.

      I have not read all the comments or responses, but all that I have read say the same thing. You accept the fact that your father had SRS, and that isn't the issue. It was and still is the METHOD OR PROCESS, he took to do it. Personally, I believe he waited to have the surgeries until he thought you were mature/adult enough to handle it. He was wrong wasn't he. You are still, after all this time as bitter now as you were then.

      Have you ever thought about accepting the fact she is a woman now.

      Please try to forgive the past, it will be good for your family, your health and eventually, your peace of mind. Which may help, improve your, your children's, and the unwanted WOMANS, lives.

    • profile image

      jeanine 3 years ago

      I don't have to right... I have children... do you... and if you do, how's your relationship going with them... I think you are the one who is calling names not I... and I would love to hear your opinion... the one you expressed is actually the one you find in every article that is on the net... that's what I'm saying ... how bout a new song... you are singing the same song that has been sung since Christine Jorgensen... only quiter quit... so give an opinion and stop calling everyone a name... good grief... we are all adults here and you have too be mad because I don't agree with you... is that really how you live your life... truly if I am offending you tell me why... is it because I need to be right or is that your need... I have children so I have pretty much heard your opinion before... don't run... if you have the answer to my close mindedness ike you say... give it in love and teach me your ways... I have years into this so 6 therapist later... I would like to here a new idea... so please don't run... I can assure you the only opinion you will get out there is the one you have already expressed... I'm here because Izettl is not saying the same thing as everyone else... you even said that yourself...

    • profile image

      Missy 3 years ago

      Ok Ms Captain America! You're worse than a hardass donky, logically speaking. Grow up! You're not too smart. Not everyone that knows how to write and reason can understand the grown up life. And for your information Ms Thinkyouallthat, I'm not gonna keep wasting my time with your ass, cause obviously you like being complicated, so when you do, you only chase people away whose only wonna help and wish to expand you little close minded way of thinking. Obviously also, looks like you're one of those who always has to be right even when you are wrong, and one that always has to have the last word, WORD! So you know what, go-on, fight with the wind- you wont win. YOU WONT HEAR FROM ME AGAIN. I HAVE THE REST OF THE WORLD TO READ, SEE!

    • profile image

      jeanine 3 years ago

      Missy, your comments ar BS to me... obviously you don't have children or if you do, you don't know how they feel or care how they feel or how you may affect them... those of us who do have children, realize how delicate they are from the time of birth till they grow old... so woman up and get a child and then make your statements known.... if you know anything at all about love... you will change and gladly change for that person... so welcome to the other reality...

    • profile image

      Missy 3 years ago

      People will always be stuck on stupid. God is beyond your imaginations. Seems like many will always be stuck in the imaginary dream world. Its funny how many work so hard to hate those they pretend to love.I bet if she won the lottery today, you would demand that she give you a piece of her pie, and only then would you be so money hungry you would call her "mommy!" -Or at least some would. Remember, many will never see God... so many who think they are doing the works of God, but God never asked you to do anything except mine your own business, butt out of peoples lives, stop putting other peoples business out there, and carry your own load. Just be happy that your new mom didn't kill herself, you, or the rest of your siblings. Be grateful that she was there for you as a lie- before she started living as a she. Be grateful because she could of walked out on you long ago and you would have never known where to. Stop being so selfish and nosey because, its her life, not yours. So what if you are her daughter, its not your life, it's her life and she can do whatever she wishes with it. She doesn't need to ask you for permission on how she needs to live her life. Just remember you're not a baby anymore, you need to take out the misconception that you still are her baby and start behaving like civilized people do and like a grown up should. You're still crying, stop crying. You're annoying little girl and all you do is noise and no one listens. She could of abandon you not, at a grown age. Remember, the world rejected her, but God loves her and tells her to come as she is and God accepts her. God is her mother, her brother, her sister, .....Me personally, I would never change for anyone nor live for anyone accept myself and there is nothing selfish in that. Welcome to reality.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      savvydating,

      Thanks for stopping by. I think it's always different for those close to the situation. But you know more than you give yourself credit for because you hit the nail on the head: "It sounds to me like your dad actually needs to become a better person. Period. No matter what sex he is. He strikes me as immature, and that is sad when someone is 60 something." I wish I had written this. Truly, that's what it boils down to and thank you for sharing your insightfulness. Always a pleasure to hear from you.

      I've learned to ignore as well but when some of that nastiness comes from your dad and onto your own children, that's where I draw the line. He may have done this to me, but when you want to play mental games with my kids...don't think so. I'm sure you can understand that. For me, I think I've become a pretty good person and I won't regret what got me there. Thanks so much for your comment.

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 3 years ago

      That's quite an interesting story about your dad. Though I like being a woman, I don't have any issues with someone wanting a sex change, provided they have had some counseling. That being said, my dad isn't transsexual, so what do I know about how this must feel. As always, we all appreciate your honesty.

      It sounds to me like your dad actually needs to become a better person. Period. No matter what sex he is. He strikes me as immature, and that is sad when someone is 60 something.

      I've had to deal with crap growing up as well. I've reached the point where, rather than thinking about how things should be, I just accept that things are as they are. Doesn't mean I have to like it, but I have learned to engage people as I find them, including my dad, who is not a nice person.

      Sorry, I'm not trying to do the soapbox thing... just giving you an idea of how I've handled the abuse I have had to deal with without going nuts or wasting my energy feeling sad or angry anymore. That being said, when we are dealing with family, this letting go thing does not happen overnight. Negligence by a parent does hurt initially...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Jackyy,

      Thanks for your comment. You described a lot of feelings and thoughts very well. Certainly there is gender variance even among transgender. I also absolutely believe the earlier you do it, the more life experience you gain being that gender. Also the less people you hurt along the way...hopefully.

      When I approach this topic on a few of my hubs, I've always been honest. Some don't like it, but there is nothing to be gained without honesty. That explained, I mentioned my dad as a clown because it was so late in life for him to transition- at 55. And it really seemed like an act. So to someone, myself back then, not knowing anything about trans, I thought why put on a fake act and go as far as getting surgery. Very confusing. So I think the earlier the better...and more natural...if that makes sense. I also know someone who wanted to transition for years but loved his wife and 3 kids and now at age 60 he has let go of that idea., but i'ts not easy at all and sometimes a daily struggle for him. He just reminds himself of his family. And again, the younger the better. It would be quite difficult to live one life for 50+ years then change. It may be inside that person for so long but after time what is an act (acting like a man) becomes the more natural gender even though that person may have always wanted to be feminine. And now transitioning to that appears to be more of an act.

    • profile image

      Missy 3 years ago

      This article is for everyone wishing to understand the minds and hearts of real women who are transsexual-intersexual kids, ...teenagers, ...young adults, ...adults, and ...traditional old farts who always had that different side of them in them: http://wp.me/p3TYdy-i , and for transsexual women themselves. And for those real "vagina" women who boost about being a "real women" and separate themselves from "penis women," then if you want to be unfair, do realize that because you see and realize a man in a transsexual women, then you also need to realize that they have more authority, power, and are more superior than you are because, they have dick and balls, not you over them, as God intended it to be. Now keep quiet, and hush!:-) The last will be first, and the first will be last. The low will be raised high for everyone to see, and the high will be brought down low, where everyone will trample on them. Thanks to those who put a finger on the loads of transsexuals and are out to do the work of Satan its helpers in persecuting with inconsistent truths, yet low in spirit they and prostitutes will go into heaven ahead of haters who think they fight for the truth, but really are out to destroy the earth by purposely trying to fullfill the Book of Revelations, and that belongs only to God.

    • profile image

      Jackyy 3 years ago

      Hey, I just read this and I don't know if you're still responding to new comments since the last one was posted quite a while ago - But I just HAD to create an account to say something about this. So here goes.

      I very much believe I'm a transgendered individual, and along my searches, this was relevant. Now I know I've had nowhere near the amount of life experience that you have had, especially not one whose Father had chosen to go through something so radical without consultation with the ones he supposedly loved - Like many people, I'm unable to empathize fully with this scenario, but you still have my sympathies, as little as it means coming from some stranger on the internet.

      I'm going to try and stay as level-headed as I can with what I'm about to divulge into, but I can't guarantee you'll like what you read.

      A couple of the comments I've read, I believe to be from transgendered people themselves, one even explained that they were alright with the body they were in while still experiencing the opposite gender - I'm still trying to get my head around this idea, but in the end, if the person feels comfortable, that's all very well and fine. I've even read something else from the internet from another post-op transsexual that has gone through surgery, that goes on to say they wish they hadn't had the surgery, except they still feel like a woman. I should probably mention that they had a very convincing feminine appearance in the first place too.

      Now what my research tells me is that it's pretty much a gamble - the only thing that's certain after you're wheeled out of the operating theatre is that you'll never be the person you were before, and this could mean a lot of things. In the case of your Father, if I may, you described him as a "clown". To younger MtF transgendered people, this would be their horror story - at least to me, it certainly would be. A certain quote rings into my head here - "It's never too late to be what you might have been." Do you see where I'm getting at? I do think it was too late, at least in the case of your Father.

      A Full Grown Man, a successful career, and most importantly, a family - the very image of what every man in the 21st century should strive to become (with the exception of the frilly outfits - heh.). What he did 10 years ago should've been done 30, maybe 40 years ago, before he had a career, a wife and mouths to feed. It's just unfathomable why you would abandon all that, and what have you got to show for it? I can't agree more on how selfish this is. As much as I feel for older transgendered people, I believe that there is a "too late".

      For me, to become the other sex entirely would be to also become socially integrated as a functional female. This would mean nobody would suspect I was the other sex - If other people look at me and KNOW I'm a post-op transsexual, what's the point then? I wouldn't want to be seen as anything other than female. Seeing a lot of pictures of older trans-women myself, I begin questioning myself on whether these people think they actually look good or not. Some say they're happy to just be in their new body - well, okay, I guess, but referring back to your father, I wouldn't dare of thinking about doing something like that if I were in the same position.

      Yes, some people do end up happier and with a much better quality of life, and some, not so lucky. Appearance indeed does not make the Woman - I don't know if I have it wrong here from your post, but you said something about how uncomfortable it was to be seen with him in public - I'm only going to assume he had the breasts and whatever else, but physically, he looked a mess. If he's not getting the right looks from the public, he'll never be fully accepted socially as a woman, and I think that's a very important part of actually becoming one mentally. At his age, I can't imagine he would make any friends like a female would, which could probably be a reason for his inability to portray himself as one properly, but he has also, well, missed the opportunity of living as a woman too; by a long shot.

      You had the good fortune to being able to grow up as a little girl, make friends as a teenager, flirt, and become a mother. This is the experience that separates real women from transsexuals. It's also another reason why I believe that the sooner you decide to do something like this, the more you will learn and the better you will turn out as a woman. It's no guarantee that it will work for everyone, but it's just what I believe. You probably know more than me that there are probably very many women living today who were once men, that have then since become very socially adjusted and indistinguishable from actual women. These people were able to learn, and were the early adopters that have succeeded. There are probably also just as many, if not more not-so-successful people who haven't properly adapted to living as a female, because the just didn't have the knowledge.

      Why would it be too late for some people? Because they had their chance before to decide. For you, your Father had a family. If that's not a cutoff point for something like this, I don't know what is. If I was raising a family, it's not me I should be worrying about, it's them, and because I've already made the decision to have a wife, and I've made the decision to have children, I should know that I've taken on that responsibility. Should I really want to change my mind, I would at least consult my family about it. I must admit, I can relate to your father when he picks on you about your feminine features, I get the same feeling sometimes when I see a nice looking girl, and sometimes, I'd begin to think things like "why couldn't I have been born a female? Out of the 2 outcomes possible, I had to be the one I didn't like".

      For transgendered people, this is a common thought, and it's one that constantly hounds our minds at that. If your Father had wanted it so badly, why had he not made the decision earlier, before had imposed all these responsibilities on himself? The younger transgendered are, the more likely they are to thrive post-op. I don't know if you might disagree with this, but they made the decision before it affected anyone else in their lives, and when they're young adults without children to care for, they only have themselves to depend on, maybe some support from their parents in some cases. I guess that's all I have to say. Sorry for the long line of text, and my habit of disjointed writing practices, but if you put up with that to get this far, thank you.

      As for the article, It was very insightful, and in the space of 2 pages, you were able to shine a light on such a large part of your life to the rest of us, without skirting the details especially on such a controversial theme. Like I said, I believe myself to be transgendered, I have been contemplating surgery for a while now, and reading this has only made me re-evaluate my options, so again, thank you.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Missy, I won't judge you if you don't judge me. Honestly, when someone does judge me, I'd like them to get to know why, but it seems you want to defend and that's the worst possible reaction. If people like me can be helped by you in any way, it is to understand you, not defend ourselves here. let your guard down.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Hi Izettl... love your hub... and I hope Missyhalo gets some help... we all have been in the throws of testosterone over on my side and it's a very weird thing... Don't leave Missy, just talk to us like the girl you are or are trying to be... we understand that it's not easy... we really are your friends if you can stop the yelling and judging thing... you are a beautiful person inside I am sure,,, so please, let us see your girl side... that guy side you have been showing is just to much to take right off the bat... put on a little more make up and feel better... then truly find a good endo... they are a God sent ... at least for me... I love my endo and at first when I began to feel real I thought I was falling in love with him... when in actuality he just was helping me feel like myself... that was years ago and he still holds a very special place in my heart... now Missy... lets try one more time... Hi I'm jeanine... so glad to meet you...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Good words Jeanine. I don't think my dad is on enough estrogen either. Missy, you need some hormones checked. I hope I put that nicely, not sure what won't offend you, but hormones are tricky things in the female world. Now that I've had the ups and downs of having my babies, I've got menopause to look forward to. How about you?

    • profile image

      Jeanine 3 years ago

      oh one more thing... please contact your endo and tell him or her, your meds aren't working... lol...lol... you are such a nasty girl... did you like hearing that from a man sweet heart... lol...lol...lol... oh and here's one more thing... I mean the thing that is after the other last thing, you know the first last thing I said... or meant to say... but I guess I really did have another things to say after that one thing I wanted to say... so here it is... you nor I have a right to tell one another how we feel because neither of us are living within our skin... so that's all I was saying... try and be civil... I lived a long time on this earth and I like it... it was very strange when I first realized I was a bit different... but however I found my way... you have no right nor voice really to tell me who I am or what I could and could not be... that attitude my be in your transsexual womans body... but it's stone cold male in it's origin and sounds pretty male in the delivery... still a lot of testosterone hangin in their buddy... I hear if you get a good endo... and take about 6mg of estradiol and about 300mg of a blocker... that will take care of it for you... of course I would know because I am all male and want to "side it in...out" what that the way you put it.... what a dumb ass some guys are... get a life if you can... you damn troll...

    • profile image

      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Sorry for all the typos, I did it so quickly and didn't proof it... how uneducated of me...lol... but hey you are so full of it... education I mean... I'm sure you can figure out every word I meant to say and every word that I am gonna say and probably every word... I've every thought... lol... you know what I mean dog... it is Dog isn't it....lol... hope you get a handle on your anger buddy or dear...lol... oh my.... did I say that out loud...woman up.... can we all say Bi otch...lol... take somp em this is America Jack... you can feel better immediately...

    • profile image

      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Aww Missy, Izettl is right, you have to act like a woman to be one... and you don't me just as you said to the other writer... we are all educated her and can all read for more years than you may have been alive... I have lived all my life at home and made a living doing it... I have been with my children since the day that were born until the day they left on their own... I have wife who has loved me for almost a half a century and have stood in front of hundreds of thousands of people...I am Christian and if you care to read a little further... we were as a many different names in all 167 indigenous tribes from the beginning of history... have been in those tribes... and here's where you need to read... Mister (missy)... we were known as the keepers of the secrets of God... until your tribe the Christians came on the scene... pay attention sonny we have been here much longer than your savior... and we have been here proclaiming your God was sending Him... the name calling proofs you are a man trying to be and I appreciate you wanting to be ... but you will always be a man in a dress until your heart speaks for you... scroll back up and read izettl's other hub on this subject... "My Father the Transsexual"... women do have the right to say what is more womanly to them... and here's why... if you really are a transsexual woman... then they have all been a woman longer than you... and all have never been confused by it... I hope you understand and I hope you will temper your comments... because they make you look so obiviously male that it's hard to take you seriously... only a man would demand proof... a woman would already know what I am saying is true... understand dear... I will pray for you and I will pray to your God... because He is my God as well... but... and listen to me if you can... and I'm sure you can, because you told how inteeligent and how educated you are... so an educated man or woman has the power to listen... right... and a educated man or woman has the power to control their temper... right... and a educated woman never loses site that she really is a woman and needs know one... I mean no one to actually have to tell here or agree with her on what she is... so I will ask you again... can you be in this conversation with out bringing your male side to the party... we are hear in this hub for longer than you have been a woman more than likely...lol... sorry... Only a woman can make you that mad I know... all I'm saying is... you have every right in the world of men to believe like you want to.... but in the world of women... you have to earn that right sweet heart... just cause you say... I'm a woma I'm woman, doesn't really make it so over here...lol... sorry... when you speak... to your husband... does he take this BS from you... we don't have to take it and you can spit all day... it's just not very lady like... and hey ... I can say it and there are others that agree.. here so wake up and try to be a little more lady like, even if it's just the practice... God you are bitter... it hurts my heart... I know you hurt inside but none of us did it... hope you have a good day...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I want to correct the first sentence of my last comment- It should read...my "dad" (not "my mom") is not more of a mommy than a daddy. My dad doesn't have an ounce of nurturing in him/her. He wants my kids to call him grandpa...if that's not confusing. Most of the time he dresses gender neutral after his sex change. Not all trans are alike and that's why I want to emphasize that gender identity disorder is seeing the wrong image in the mirror, not necessarily feeling like a female on the inside wanting to come out. Most trans I've met put emphasis on appearance and like I said before appearance does not make the person.

      Trans should flourish in this society because more women are becoming more like men than ever before. I also wrote a hub on "How women forgot to be women". Just like a "woman" spitting and foaming at the mouth with nasty comments can call herself a woman, but she is not a lady...that's for sure Missy.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Missy,

      My mom is not more of a mommy than a daddy. I don't know if you read the part of my comment that stated my dad is an insensitive prick to me...my mom certainly is not. She catered to him...and sadly that's a woman. Many women cater to their men in relationships. However, I've seen the opposite in real life with trans who want to be women that are catered to. Other way around "sista". Women are the nurturers.

      I believe trans have this false ideal in their heads about what a woman is. I also believe my dad associated womanhood with an easier life. He went to Vietnam and had to shoot people...point blank. Tell me no mental illness came from that. We all have ways of dealing with life and some of it can come across in a gender identity disorder in a time of psychosexual development.

      It doesn't seem that "Jeanine" was attacking you. I get more female form "her" voice than yours Missy. All your logic and importance on education (there is a difference between life and books/facts) makes you seem very male. Sorry, but you're just proving my point on this hub. Nothing is coming from your heart and women live there. A woman's logic comes from her heart first. Yep this comment of yours Missy is very male "you're a freak in your sexual nature, O Kaay! And by the way, eunuchs were the ones who served kings as advisors, (while two spirited people advise their native Indian Captain Crunch and spanish lords) not that two spirited bullshit tribe of yours or things that humans invented not too long ago. Everything I write is based on facts, not what I think without being sure." No matter what you look like on the outside, it doesn't make your inside. Even you admitted that looks are a pleasure in life, making them ONLY an aspect, a small piece of the big picture. What happens when we get old? Is that displeasing and we should all be depressed? Or have a rough life because we're no longer attractive. Those older celebs who get plastic surgery are not attractive and yet they think they are so if dressing like a woman makes you feel like a woman then go ahead, but a woman it does NOT make. Appearance is only a "part" of life...as you put it Missy.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      stop fighting and calling each other names if you both can help it... this is a peaceful site where we learn about each other not hurt each other... if you think one person is confused of uninformed help that person to become informed... you never get any where calling names and yelling or trying to make one another see your point...

      I am gender variant and have been all of my life although I didn't know what it was called when I was younger. It is very challenging to live in your world... but I have done it and I am doing it... I realize just because I think I am a woman.. doesn't make me one any more than if I thought I was a dog, I would be a dog so lets get that straight... I do however identify with women almost exclusively... and all six of my therapist said the only way for me to find relief was and is to change my body.... I chose not to do that because I have a family and a wife .... I didn't know about my identity glitch until after I had married...and had children... here's the deal for me... if one if single and has not committed to a life with someone... I am fine with transition... by all means knock yourself out... if you are married with children... I find issue with the irresponsibility of transition... and here's why... to hurt my children and my best friend is not healthy for anyone involved... besides I know of no genetic females that choose to hurt the children on purpose... so after years of therapy and group... I stood and asked... " I do feel so similar to all the things we have shared together... I identify with only the female in me, but the woman in me would never hurt my children nor would I let any man hurt my children..in fact I would kill any man that tried to hurt my children.. even the one I live in".... true... in my quest to find an answer to my own gender world challenges... I discovered a little known history of our tribe... we were known in almost every tribe in the world as two spirited people... and if one really wants to know who we are... study there... we were and have been around a long time... and these last two hundred years is the only time in history we have been looked down upon... so after I had read extensively on our history.. I realized that we have been sold a bill of goods by the medical community...for how am I to be more, when you are trying to make me less.... I am two spirited... I understand certain things about both man and woman... strange but true... we were never meant to be one or the other but to be two living as one... I have lived in your world and I don't want to be one or the other... if you read our history, you will see were advisers to kings and queens throughout history... I hope one day we all do become more educated... but I'm sure because I live this life... it's different than any of you who have an opinion of how my life is lived... does that make sense... I certainly hope so... remember to love is divine and to seek to be divine is to be within the heart of love... argument is just that... it does nothing for the heart or the soul... nor does it convince me of your position... where the love lies is in getting to know how one another feel and how we see this life we are living... help one another, try and be in each others heart for a moment... communicate on another level and you will see, we are all created perfectly... it is the fear we should lose... it's what makes us want to control one another... fear is not of God.... and oh by the way... whether we believe in Him or not... he believes in us... lol... have a wonderful day... and be unafraid... for the one who sends the love is still sending...lol...lol...

    • amynluv profile image

      amynluv 4 years ago from Missouri

      Um...you need to educate yourself. Genderqueer is something different than gay, and I never said they were the same.

      I didn't mention anything about the Christian/Jewish/Muslim God, either. Why would I? I don't worship that god. So why you dedicated most of your post to that god, I'm not sure.

      I said "She IS a woman, not a 'woman.," because the author put woman in quotes, as if a trans woman isn't a real women when they are. Maybe you should have read the article before spitting venom at me and recopying your same, poorly written, article a million times. Settle down and take a few deep breaths. Meditate. Something...just don't go around being so bitter and hateful towards others.

    • amynluv profile image

      amynluv 4 years ago from Missouri

      She IS a woman, not a "woman." There is something between being cis (born in the right body) and trans, too. It's called gender queer. You are really, really transphobic, too.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Missy~ you speak a lot of people "born with" can I can understand that. 1-2% of births are intersex, possibly a little of both. I had a rabbit that was so this does happen probably more often than not.

      This hub could also be titled, "Appearance does not make the person". This is the same thing I am referring to. My dad, a trans, is an insensitive prick (or I should say bitch because technically he's a woman) many times and shows no compassion yet I should have compassion for him based solely on the fact that he's a trans?

      I'm not really concerned about a trans view of God- that's not what this hub is about. I know a trans minded individual who did not transition based on the mentality that a "real" woman would not leave their family behind simply to become who they thought they should be. Women, on the inside are much different than a man who got a sex change to be a woman. They "feel " like a woman on the inside, or so they claim, but many show no characteristics, other than appearance, that they are a woman.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Kate,

      Your story makes more sense than late in life transitioners. It just doesn't seem possible to suddenly physically be a woman after 55 years of being a man no matter how female your mind frame is. You story makes perfect sense, there isn't a lot of emphasis on the stereotypical female clothes or mannerisms, etc. You're just a woman like the rest of us. I do believe a lot of older trans have an unrealistic notion of being a woman.

      Thanks for stopping by and sharing your story.

    • profile image

      Kate 4 years ago

      It must be strange to have a father that got a sex change. My dad has told me that he always wished that he could be a woman, but he is 7 feet tall so it isn't realistic for him. Luckily, I am my mother's height.

      I actually transitioned in my teens, and I agree with your points. The clothes or makeup is not what makes you a woman. We could go out in men's clothes and obviously not be men.

      I have found that people that transition later in life are stuck with a male mind frame. I am not sure if it is because of all of the years living as an adult male, or because they weren't that much female mentally and that was why they were able to wait so long. They seem to have an artificial and idealized sense of what a woman is like. Honestly we are just people, not sexualized objects or frilly clothing. Give me some concealer for my dark eye circles and and jeans and I'm good to go about my boring every day life as just another woman on this planet. It's not glamor and glitz lol.

      I was able to go through puberty as a woman, so I did not need breast implants. They are just there and nothing special. The bottom surgery for me was a necessity so that I could actually be able to be intimate and not be a virgin for life among many other more practical reasons. I'm not sure of the point if you are a person capable of being a father...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Thanks torrilynn~ I had this attitude when first beginning on hubpages that if I wasn't going to be real and get to heart of matters then it would be a waste of my time...and I'm a busy girl. I'm sure you are too and I thank you for reading.

    • torrilynn profile image

      torrilynn 4 years ago

      Your hubs are simply amazing. I can't stop reading. I find it very interesting and brave of you to speak of something which is so personal to you and the hardship that you are going through with your dad. Voted up.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Anne~ kids with a typical tran around, will always come last. He/she has to come first. My dad did not transition until I was in my 20's but he was the "queen" of the house. It was unspoken gospel.

      And then in Jeanine's situation, well she has put herself last for family's sake. Either way the trans situation has a bad deal. Someone loses a little and is sacrifcing too much.

      As you saying above, my dad never got counseling. He went overseas to have it done so he could avoid the counseling and living as a woman prior to surgery.

      Anne you remind me of my mom when i remember her crying all the time. Again, I was last. I was almost happy we didn't have to live with my dad anymore, but then it became all about my mom. I tried to cheer her up, listen to her, and not be any trouble. It's not fair to have kids in that situation. If you think about all the emotions you are dealing with, try being a child and dealing with some of that, but only a child so there is no point of reference or prior experience in how to deal with tough adult issues. I think that is why I took it so hard later in life cause I didn't know what to do with all that info as a child. At this point you may have some pride and dignity left to save yourself. My mom spent 18 yrs with my dad- she never recovered her self-esteem. She used his issues to avoid hers.

      I talked with my aunt today. not about my dad but somehow it related to him in my mind. We were simply discussing the difference between boys and girls because I have a son and daughter. She was talking about how teen girls between 1 and 13 go through plenty of ups and downs, especially emotional, but it gives them a foundation to know what to do with and how to deal with those emotions in the future. A boy doesn't go through these stages so when he hits 15,16 or so, he starts to have emotions and feelings but doesn't know what to do with them or how to handle them. He continues this likely into adulthood. So a trans skips a very important milestone that girls go through to become women. Not having the emotional capacity to deal with these new feelings, they focus on the outside which is all they know how to so they appear (and are) selfish. They are not doing the inner work- they are doing most of their work on the outside with preoccupation with their appearances. This made sense to me after talking with my aunt so maybe it sheds some light for you too.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Ok thx I will write when I get back to the house

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Hi Jeanine-

      I didn't get it. I signed in here and checked my email account and I didn't find it. I'm not sure if Izettl got my message either because I tried to send her an email through the hub and I didn't get yours so maybe she didn't get mine either. I have a temporary email address I can give you here. Please email me at ann@smartdroids.com thanks talk to you soon : )

      I have a temporary kind of private email I can give out here,

      so please email me at ann@smartdroids.com thanks!

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      Ann, did you receive my email...

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      Hi Ann, my email is not on hub pages... but you can contact izettl and she will give you my email... I'll contact her and let her know you are going to contact me... jeanine is a pen name of mine and I like it that way... I'll be more than happy to hear from you though... you can contact Izettl the same way you tried to contact me... I don't know who the other Jeanine is but it's not me... I am just a commenter but not a registered hubber... hubber hubber...lol... thanks so much for trying though...

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      I'd like to send you a message without posting my email here in the comments section. If you didn't get it I think if you search AnnStacy in the search box, there might be a way to email me in a link under fan mail.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Jeanine,

      I just tried to send you an email through your contact page at hub pages. Please let me know if you got it. If you did please email me at the email address in the message, and if you didn't please let me know by posting that you didn't, here. Thank you. Hope you're having a great day

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Ann....the statement you make about treating him well and putting him first is what I have learned in my own lesson with being trans... although I am not a woman, I have found that the suffering each of you take on for your man or for your family is what I see as the grace of women and is what I have found most gratifying in my on life... not to suffer so much but to have something worth suffering for... my children and my wife are that for me... and I have found that I don't have to have the body of a woman or a man to feel the pride and joy of my family being close to me... I certainly have learned that they are the most important things in my own life... to know love is to know oneself... and to know oneself is to be able to love... I have found over these years that trans have a difficult time loving ourselves... yet the key for me and the door that I have been able to walk through, has nothing to do with me... it has to do with how much love I'm able to give instead of receive .... therefore bearing out what He said... "it is more blessed to give than receive"... I will be praying for both of you... do not feel bad that you are ready for him to be gone... he left a while back really... it's just the memories that you hole now, just a shadow of what once was... and if you can... look at it for what it really is... he is living so you can live your own life, so he does love you, in his/her own way... things work out so don't worry... you have all of your life ahead of you... try not to cry for him... he has to do it... and that is the saddest thing on earth... to no longer love the body you were given, is so upsetting, yet that is where is is... and she will find herself hopefully... remember love is the answer... Merry Christmas...

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Thank you . : )

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      Ann, I am so proud of you... you must stand up for yourself... my own wife did that early on when this was happening to us and I took a completely different road because she was so strong... stay in your own corner and continue to encourage yourself... most trans' wives get so bet up trying to heal their partners that they damage their own person...there's nothing wrong with helping ones self... first....the selfishness that we carry as trans is not on purpose... it's just after so many years the damn finally breaks and all the kings horses and all the kings men, can't put humpty back together again...lol... and it's really true... he couldn't put her back in the closet if his life depended on it...

      I do know what you are talking about with the people in the dream... and that is why Izettl wrote this hub so long ago... we both agreed there was and is no place for the family of trans to go and express themselves...there is plenty of help for the trans but almost nothing for those who are affected by their behavior... I am so glad you found us... there will be a book soon that we will be working on to address a lot of the things we have discussed here with you... keep your chin up and remember... this is his life not yours... this is something that just happened to you, in your first marriage... remember to dream... of a good strong man, children, friends that care for you and your feelings... have a wonderful Christmas and see yourself winning in ever area of your life... don't spend all your love on him anymore.... love is so precious, share it with someone who holds it precious to them... praying for you... Merry Christmas... and happy Holidays... I will be here and so will Izettl.... don't be a stranger....lol...the things that he wants to do are wrong... not because he is trans, but because he is not considerate of you or your feelings... hey he is still just coming up on that teen girl that is inside of him... so sorry you have had to go through some of this... get away as soon as you can... life is worth living... without the strife and burden of someone who doesn't know who or what they are... try not to hurt her, but by all means do not let her hurt you anymore...live your life not hers...

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      I don't want to say this, but I'm ready for him to be gone. He actually said tonight that one of the reasons he's leaving is because he is not going to let me make him feel like the things he wants to do are wrong.

      I've spent a lot of time doing things to cater to him and make his life easier, and while he's here my life is still kind of taking a back seat to his and I'm tired of it. Tired of walking on egg shells and still being humiliated because he turns to people to get support for behavior that affects me. Just tired of all of it. If he wants to be disrespectful to me, I want it to be in his own place far from me. Because I treat myself well. When hens around don't treat myself well because I'm too busy treating him well, and he doesn't treat me well in my place.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      I know I will be better off.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      He gets his hormones from a medical center that specializes in treating the LGBT community. They offer no counseling, if you want hormones or surgery they only make a person sign an informed consent form. So, anyone can come in and say they want hormones and they'll be given the prescription. I don't know what the dosage is that he is taking.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Hi Jeanine,

      I know that dream was scary. I don't think my husband or trans or transitioning people are evil. I think it's just the hurt and hard time I was having dealing with the people in his life that seemed to be encouraging everything that he was doing that was causing me to have a hard time. These people, in my perception, acted like I was invisible or so unimportant that it was very hurtful. And I always try to consider everyone. If someone came to me and asked for advice, I don't think I would encourage them to do things that would hurt their spouse, even if I didn't personally know their spouse. Many of these people knew me and would continue to encourage him to do things that affected me, and when I would see them in person would avoid me, or I had the feeling like they acted smug like they had control over my husbands decisions and therefore what they said and decided gave them the power to indirectly cause me pain and stress. I think that is the true evil part. That I felt there were people who were close to my husband who ultimately wanted to cause me sadness and see me in pain.

      Nome of these people ever talked to me. They treated me like , I may be his wife, but they would always be more important because they would always encourage anything he wanted to do and that together with him and sometimes others they had me out numbered. That is why I will avoid these people completely from now on, and the part that I felt really represented the evil in the dream. Because these friends and family members wanted to see strife and cause harm to our marriage. I could see it, but my husband would never acknowledge that I was hurt by this, because then that would be like admitting that what he was doing was wrong.

      You're right. It is like the airplane. I have to take care of myself first and am starting to and I like it. I know that the taking his time is for him and not for me. I'm just glad that I realize that I'm going to be fine, even better than fine if he's not here. I love him, but unless he was like you in caring for me, protecting me and a family, it's already complicTed enough and I'm working on protecting and building myself and my happiness up. There is a lot in life that I would like to see and do and I am excited for it. Especially having a holiday coming up.

      God Bless You and Merry Christmas too!

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      Oh Ann, "you are such a girl...lol... and I say that for you to hear it... so again... you are such a girl" I'm sure you haven't heard that from hubby in a while or perhaps ever... I love that you said it errked you that he didn't consider that certain things bothered you and didn't concider changing one thing to accommodate how you felt... that is so typical and such a healthy outlook... you are such a girl...lol...lol... and as far as the the nightmare...woowee that was a nightmare, scared me... but I don't think your hubby is evil nor do I think trans people are those we hang with are evil... they are just different and different is not a bad thing if you are up for what we are are and how we will act for the rest of our lives... she must do what is best for her, just as you must do what is best for you... remember this is not your life, it's just the part that you are living right now... so go have the best Christmas you have ever had...knowing that you have a wonderful life ahead of you... know that you are "such a girl" and it's the most attractive thing in the world... and also remember your life is so attractive to your husband that he wants it to be his /her life... imitation is the greatest form of flattery... so live your life well... because she will never stop reflecting on what she can be and what she had in you... live your life... because it's yours... praying for the both of you... hoping he can mature sooner than later... hoping you can let go and live the life you dream... you can respect her for trying to do that.... she doesn't know how, but that doesn't mean she won't learn how... help her as a friend if you can... but she can never be the husband you are looking for... you deserve a good man... and if she really is a woman... she deserves one to... you are the luckiest woman on earth... you have the chance to start a new... be careful and be happy... Merry Christmas dear...

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Oh Ann, I am so glad you are getting a handle on where and how to right the ship you are own...tears are healing but also a calm mind and a plan of how to survive your teenager at this time is a blessing... I am so glad you are able to see what happens to him/her doesn't have to happen to you... and I feel your pain on saying... it is an uneasy feeling that the book you found is still about teen behavior... but at least there is some help in that you can see how to deal with certain things she will continue to do...

      Again you are right in that the decisions being made and the people coming into your picture are controlled by hubby... she could turn those things off, but in her defense, I'm not sure she can... hormones are not evil, but they do change how we feel as trans... they are wonderful for us so as she stays longer at your house and she will stay longer than she has discussed with you, try and talk to her and tell her you do see the difference they are making in her and just as you would tell your teen sister, try and help her understand that those around her see the changes as well... this is a delicate time for the both of you, but I am so proud that you have chosen to protect yourself first... again it is a lot like the mother and child on the airplane and the oxygen mask drop from the ceiling... you must put yours own first, then help the child with hers... I am saddened by the her inability to share openly with you, the closed computer files, the phone and the rest of the hiding are typical behavior for all of us... and in her defense, she sees herself as the victim and not you... again the thoughts of a teenaged girl... are flooding the mind at this time... do you know how and where he got the hormones... and what dosage she is doing...does she have an endocrinologist and a therapist yet....find a therapist for you as well... the lying on the floor sick is again the mother and child situation for her... she is sick more than likely because she doesn't really want to move she wants you to change because she is going to change with or without your permission...again evidence male privilege, and that as much as he wants to be a girl, that is male behavior, expecting the wife to do what he wants... and as hard as it is to let him know that he doesn't have those privileges as a girl... you must be up front and tell him... if he wants to be a girl, here is the first reality.... no one gives a damn really and know one is going to feel sorry for you... it is a hard lesson to learn and there are many transsexual advocates that become advocates because of the male anger they still carry... now that being said... I am for full rights for every transsexual alive and for those who have passed... but I am also for the rights of the family and the wife especially because most did not sign on for living with a woman... you are doing great Ann... keep your chin up and know that this is just something that happened to you in your first marriage, it is not your life, but it is hers. He does not get to pass go and collect 200 dollars...lol...which he would have if he had chosen to share this feelings with you as a woman... definitely male behavior... thinks you should just go along with him because he is... was the husband... and the by the way, him acting up and yelling is unacceptable... that is the mood swing from the hormones partly but mostly it's him being the man... which as women when the guys act that way, we all make amends and try to understand that it's the pressure of being a man and all the responsibilities that men have... in this case can we all just call it like it is..." Bitch"... don't bring that pissy attitude in here... I'll slap you silly if you do that again...lol... don't take that crap anymore, you might think about taking it from your husband but not from a teen girl that knows nothing of being a woman nor the responsibilities that women have and must own each day of their lives... put her in time out... indefinitely...lol... sorry... but today, immediately inform her of her rights, and they don't include raise her voice ever again at you... "Here's a quarter, call someone who cares"...lol... I know that's harsh but she seem to be moving in and out of male privilege and that is not going to be available in the life she is about to embrace...

      "He says the reason he is taking his time to leave is because he loves me and likes being with me." listen to that sentence as you read... this is so teen to me, because it's really the part that says... "likes being with you" that is very sad to me.... he is reaching out as the socially stunted little man there... he is so lost in himself right here that it saddens me... he is afraid and really does want to stay, it looks like... but he wants his cake and eat it to... and that can't happen if you want something other than a teenager or a girlfriend... you deserve a man simply because you are a woman... not someone who wants to be one, but a real live woman with all the greatness that women have and all the greatness he wants in his own life... in his defense it is waht was in that room... his esteem was probably so shattered as the child and the abandonment from both his parents that he just wants to be loved in anyway he can... again the best thing you can ever do for him as you leave is the get him some help... he is prime for prostitution and there are many of us that turn to that lifestyle... again let me visit the place of his anger and yelling... tell her/him that is no longer an option for you and if she /he expects any help from you, that behavior is to stop immediately, now, zip, nada, no longer, ever and right now... or she/he can leave right now... the "I'll move out slowly is not for you Ann, it's for him... he hasn't decided how it works without you in the pic... he is probably still hoping and believing that he wins in the end and you need him... again male behavior... remind him at every turn he is not male, by his own admission and lets face it, men have it easier in this world... I know, I chose to stay in my body because I am not offended by it so much... I do not hate it... I learned to use it to my advantage, and if you look at the new woman of today, they are aggressively moving toward being the new man... well a woman like myself, in a male body is not to far fetched from where women will be in another 50 years... look at yourself... you have the chose not to stay with him, where twenty years ago, Izetti mom may not have thought she had that choice...again, some of us as trans see that the age of woman is on the horizon, so like I said, those of us that are like that, are somehow driven to change into the woman we see coming... and that is a real drive in "two spirited" people... that part he cannot help... what he can do is become mature in his research... so many of us will not and do not want to look at what we really are... an ancient tribe of men who have a basic understanding of both male and female genders... we were born to help the two sexes understand one another... never meant to be women or just men... but both... somehow we lost our history and when that happened, the medical community took up the cross and said oh we can help... let us help you change your body...and believe me there is nothing more beautiful to us than that picture... but part of that pic comes from us no longer being focused on helping others or we are no longer held in high regard... so we got board and hey, with child like faith we would rather be one or the other... we are so tired of the confusion ourselves that we are willing to do anything for some peace... so as much as I want you to be looking after you... because you need that more than anything... you do and you have loved him... so pray for him... the confusion that you are so afraid of, has been his life since he was a small boy in that room next door... "The Room Next Door" is a good title for a book actually... again I am so sorry this has happened.... praying for you... and I'm so glad you are getting away for holiday... it will do both of you good, but especially you... keep your chin up... you are doing it

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      God Bless You too Izettl.

      Thank you both so much again for everything. It is helping me so much.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      so, God Bless You Jeanine.

      I am glad you put your family first. You are a good and caring person and have a beautiful family because you do that. I know that what is right and what God wants us to do.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      I wanted to add that even though it would be nice to grow old with him- I can't continue live with the craziness I've gone through. I'm thinking like possibly a dream like later on in life or something, but I am not giving up the possibility of having children for him. In a strange way I almost think that he would like me to concede to being childless and having me take care of him while he runs around and continues to do whatever he's doing, while I stay in a constant state of stress while he's doing it. It always bothered me that when I'd tell him how something he was doing, or not being understanding about bothered me that he would yell at me and place the blame on me for being uncomfortable.

      I hated that because if someone tells me that something I'm doing or not being understanding about bothers them, I try to listen and understand where they are coming from. I don't yell at them and make them feel like they are the problem. Just typing that starts to make me upset. Because that's a huge issue. Who can't have empathy for other people? It was probably the most maddening thing. Like when I found out about that crazy 'bear' person. Instead of caring about my feelings and my being upset, he took my phone and snapped it in half. It was one of those sliding phones. So I had to deal with the hurt as things happened, and then being normal and expressing that I was upset triggered him to heap more hurt on top of me. No expressions of guilt or remorse.

      I know what you mean about nightmares though Izettl. Just remembering that incident with my phone reminded me of a nightmare I had around that time. It was something to do with a house, because ever since we were married it always bothered me that my husband would never say he wanted to get us a house. If he ever mentioned getting a house it was always in the context that it would be nice to have one in case one of his family members ever needed a place to stay then they could live there, but never to have a house for our future or our family.

      So I had a nightmare that we finally found a house. I didn't like it, it was large and looked old, almost like a haunted house. I tried to tell my husband that I didn't like it but he did and the real estate lady was trying to sell it and wanted to show it. I stood in the back yard where she was letting my husband into the house where there was also an entrance. I guess inside that back door was a stairway to a basement where along the outside of back of the house there were windows where you could see into the basement from the height of it's ceiling.

      I went over near one of the windows and watched the real estate lady walk with my husband down the stairs to the floor level of the basement. There was a semi circular fireplace down there and the fire was going heavily. The whole room was tinted red and there were people down there. All of the people that approved of my husband transitioning milling around and greeting him. It seemed like that fireplace was an opening to hell. I got scared and started to leave the property. I ran around to the front of the house and looked up at the front steps onto the porch. The windows up there were dark like someone had put black construction paper over them from the inside. There was an iron gate around the property and I found an opening to leave. But when I looked around to the front of the property it looked like the real people on the street were zombies. I didn't know what was going on but I looked up and there was a helicopter that had lowered a rope. I reached for it and stepped into a little stirrup thing and started to be lifted from the property. I must have made it about 20 feet in the air before I woke up.

      That's funny I had forgotten about that dream. But that's how out of synch we are about the future. And I always thought that him saying that about the house meant that he wasn't looking out for our future. That he was thinking about himself and the people that have hurt me and my comfort, safety, and future weren't a consideration. His comfort, safety and future was a consideration for me but not the other way around.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Jeanine,

      Izettl's perspective on children has also helped me a lot as well. A few weeks ago I was actually considering it, despite how hard I knew it would be. It might have been different had my husband been like you and wanted a family and wanted to put the family and children first. But his entire concern is of himself. There is no way, with his fascination/current mental state of youth and female-dom, that he wants to care for a real child. It's really complex. Maybe that also has to do with his abandonment by his father and neglect he experienced while living with his mother. He actually said many times that if I got pregnant that he would leave. And has said that part of the reason he is leaving now is that I want to have a child eventually, and he doesn't want that life. He says the reason he is taking his time to leave is because he loves me and likes being with me.

      I am going away for 5 days to see my family for the holidays. Mentally, I've started to distance myself from the situation, thanks to your support, because you're right- I am lucky. This could be a lot worse, especially if I was trying to comfort a child through this in addition to trying to work through it myself. In addition to your support, I am grateful that I can get away to see my family in a week and that you've both given me an idea of what level ground looks like, as this experience has been like being on one of those roller coasters that throws off your sense of balance and knowing which way is up.

      I would have loved, and still would love to grow old with my husband but I know I have to take care of myself first. One day at a time, step by step, just focus on taking care of myself and my life. I'll continue to be a friend and care for him but not at the expense of myself. He said that he would still be here when I got back from visiting my family, and that's ok. Pulling away emotionally right now and putting myself in my mind, in the place where I had placed him, is helping. I'm almost feeling sane again. Thank you thank you so much for your prayers, sharing your stories and support. It's a miracle how much better I feel. It's really horrible to sob everyday and feel weak for over a week straight. I've put my faith in God, and I thank Him so much for leading me here so I could find you both. Thank You! Merry Christmas to you too!

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Thank you so much Jeanine and Izettl.

      I think your prayers are working because counting today, I haven't cried heavily in two days. I think I know what you mean Izettl when you say you had a fear of your dad. I know the movie helped with you wondering what could be in the closet, but I think I've been living with a similar fear. Not so much that he would physically harm me, but that with the hormones, and people that he surrounded himself with/ had in his life that I had uneasy feelings about, I felt tense and scared about the harm that his decisions were bringing into our lives. I felt like I was constantly looking out for danger and trying to protect myself and him, and that whenever I thought I had one somewhat under control, there were two or three more to take their place.

      I wonder if that is how your mother felt. That she was just trying to keep things, as difficult as they were, under control. And then just when she was trying to stabilize what she had- the affair happened. And like a teenager, I started to feel like he was testing my boundaries to see how I would handle things. I came across a book called 'Yes, your teen is crazy'. It's a parenting book that described a lot of his behavior and gave great suggestions on how to counteract and deal with it, but it was never a consolation that it is a book for teenage behavior.

      So yes, I know in a way about the fear you went through. It wasn't a closet with potential rifles inside, but it's a locked computer file, a cell phone message box with a password to read the messages. And when you do open them, there isn't anything inside to put your mind at ease. Just more things confirming that you're fighting a losing battle towards the type of "normalcy" that you'd like.

      I started to feel like I was fighting the world. The people in his life that support this, known and online strangers. But I had to realize that he was the one that could turn off the faucet letting in the flood of people that were so in support of the upheaval in my life. That he was the one who could stop it, and that in reality, he was the one letting it in.

      He was supposed to leave this weekend. He is still here. He said he will try to move out as slowly as possible. He moved some boxes over to the new place yesterday, but called me from there telling me how sick he was. He vomited again once he got there.

      While out alone yesterday, I thought about what you both said about him being a teenager and figured that this anxiety he is having is probably the same as a teenager rebeling and moving out and having anxiety. He had called when I was out, and when he was telling me that he wax sick and lying on the floor after having thrown up, I felt like I was comforting my child. I thank you so much for your support. It's helped me more than I can express. I still have a long way to go, but I'm so grateful for your support and prayers. I'm glad to not be sobbing everyday anymore, grateful that I have a little bit of an appetite back.

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      thinking about you Ann... know this is a heavy weekend... keep your chin... have faith like it is up to God... work like it is up to you...

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      I agree... it's the teen thing happening...the hormones are euphoric to begin with... you are examining your self to see what changes have actually happened... and just like a young girl, you expect those changes over night after they begin...and you so hope and wish everyone else sees those changes... the difference is... a 13 year old girl is still shy in many ways... here you have a 13 year old that can drive and has the tenacity and work ethic of a grown man... so he is going to do more and damage more people including himself without even realizing it... praise God you haven't had children with him and I know that sounds mean but it's not... you can stay friends but remember... He can never be happy... nd I know that from my own life... the nature of what this disorder is... never allows true contentment to rest upon our shoulders for very long... even after a successful transition, I know girls who can't seem to put it down and just be a woman. The fact that we are or were or can't seem to get rid of the male in us completely, seems to bother us for the rest of our lives...therefore we continue to have surgery after surgery... it's like we are all Michael Jackson...lol... sorry but it's true... unfortunately your hubby has already crossed over... he is into her more than he is into you... and that is reason enough to not stay...hey he has the stupids right now... and maybe he can't help it... but you must divorce yourself from your own guilt, in that you want to help him or you feel you could have done something else to ward this off maybe... let that go, it trips up many a woman and her on guilt holds her to this lie that Izettl is talking about... if you do divorce and she comes back as a woman and you still love her then give it a go maybe... but unless you are attracted to women it will never work... besides she wants a man just like you do... she just wants you to be her girlfriend and show her how to get one...sad but true... my situation is a great one, but even my own life would be totally different if I were not committed to my wife and children... I needed the structure that they provide for me especially years ago when I was this 13 year old ... now after years of hormones that girl seems so far away and it seems so long ago... I did some really stupid stuff at that time... but I finally grew up... and thanks to Izettl's writing and sharing the pain of what it does to the child, I always have something to hold on to when I get down and start to feel sorry for myself... the women in me is more practical now... would I rather be a woman or have my children... is the question... as a woman what do you think that answer will always be.... uhh let me see... behind door number one is Children... door number two being a woman.... door number three, a woman with a rich man that loves me... lol... I'll take door number one...ding ding ding... the extra prize comes with that door... a woman who is their mom... also loves and respect you, will come along with the children... face it and when you speak to your husband about real things... discuss if he thinks there is a woman on earth that would choose anything other than her children... if he says he thinks there is... then he is not a woman trapped in a mans' body... he is just a guy in a dress... I know that sounds harsh and Izettl and I get a lot of flack for taking the position that the family should be first in a man's and a woman life, but for us... the pain she has endured as a child and the love that has been given to me for choosing my family instead of myself is enough for me to say... "Family first" is what is needed whether one is a man or a woman... if I had no children but had a wife that was willing to stay with me and love me and hold me... I think I would still choose her as my family and stay... why... the commitment for me when she put that ring on my finger was forever... so find you a man that loves you completely... one can over come this disorder... I am living proof that love exist in the strangest places... and Izettl is living proof that we all can survive, even the most hurtful of all hurts... Merry Christmas Girls... and Merry Christmas to all..... Ann... make sure you have a support network during these holidays... if you are not spending time with family... go on holiday... get away baby girl... you need to live your life... you are wonderfully and perfectly made... will be praying for you dear...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ann, some of this I've talked with Jeanine about long time ago. But I believe that as your husband is transitioning he is a new girl. Meaning he is new at it. Other than mental illness, this explains why he is not using common sense. He is literally age 13 about and wanting approval, being selfish, etc. It's like setting free a 13 yr old girl on her own out in the world.

      My dad began acting reckless and not himself. My dad also has what I think is a morbid view of a mans role in society. He served in Vietnam but before that his dad was always trying, forcing,him to be a man and my dad was a very sensitive boy so I think his duty to serve in Vietnam also made his view of being a man worse.

      If you stayed with your husband you would be his mommy. I saw this with my parents after them being married18 yrs. she took care of him. I took on a role to expect less care cause everything was centered around my dad and keeping him happy. My mom lived in fear and lies until he became an older teen girl and rebelled. That's what it seemed. My mom took me out one night after bed time and followed my dad where he met his girlfriend. That was the straw that broke the camels back. You will have a hard time like my mom finding a new normal after years of living this way. I hope you won't subject yourself to that.

      As a teen i had nightmares about my dad. I saw a movie where the man dressed in women's clothing and was a serial killer. My dad is genius smart which is another characteristic of many serial killers...and he began having a locked closet door when I was in my teens. I don't think I slept when I had to stay weekends at his place. Can you imagine thinking that about your dad. It was of course a combo of the movie, my over active imagination, but mostly I didn't trust my dad. Sad but true. I finally found out the locked closet door was full of clothes wigs makeup women shoes and photo albums of pics of him dressed up. I was so sick to my stomach that I might as well have found dead bodies.

      My point is your husbands behavior will escalate and when it does the trust in your relationship will be squashed. Don't live a lie.

      I just realized only one of my mom's hubs is still published. Hubpages sometimes takes off or disapproves of this kind of content.

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      good for you, it's not the end of the world and if you want to stay friends, you should... unfortunately for you, you are the only adult in the relationship... and these are just my opinions so don't see them for anything other than they are... it is still your decision and I'm sure you will make the right one for you... I am so glad you are starting to get a handle on your outlook... in his defense... he is his sister in many ways and I can say that because I am also suffering from this mental dyslexia... he/she will always have that fun side and is the main reason she doesn't want to divorce..."Girls just wantta have fun un"...lol... keep you chin up during this holiday season and know that you are the luckiest girl in the world... you have an opportunity to live your life without having a grown up teen age daughter that your ex husband dumped on you from an earlier marriage... and yes that is what this trans thing is about... we do not have that confidence about our gender like each of you singletons have... nor are we the brave type that will strike out and try to change our lives... we are all imprisoned by our own selves... I tell you this not to discourage you but where you might have some real insight into how trans actually think... when you said it is a mental disorder... it really is... because we cannot go on and be either... we linger for years being both... stunting our mental process... so we really are behind in social behaviors... almost like living with a down syndrome child in some ways...ex. if you look at him in the baby situation you can see that he really is less... he is entertained by small things... anal retentive in some ways... like when a small girl plays with her dollies or paper dolls from my generation... he would be absolutely happy to have his/her mommy tell her everything to do... and you would be so surprised at how good a little girl she would be... unfortunately you don't need a grown baby girl... there is one other possibilitie that might work if you do want to keep him... there is a sight called "FLR" female led relationships and because he is a good earner that is a possible choice for the woman these days...because of his confusion he would be a good match for that type of life style... but again it's a lot of work but you wouldn't have to lose the work you have already put into the relationship... the most dangerous thing you must face at this time is... he is having unprotected sex more than likely... the bear that you saw... the wild look in his eye... is the fear he uses against his victims(your husband) to control him and force him to have unprotected sex... it is inherent in your husband psychic to submit as the girl he is... inside..

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Thank you Jeanine,

      I was thinking about that this morning. I do want to have children and he is so terrified of having one that it seems to make him want to act out more and be panicked so that he distances himself / herself from me. I Definitely do not want to be childless my whole life, but I also do not want to have him donate, go through a lot of technology, only to be left alone to raise the child. It isn't fair to the child and wouldn't be fair to me. Because you are right. Due to his arrested mental age it is like asking a teenager to be excited about starting to raise a family- not a good idea. (sigh). The fun loving younger spirit in him was one of the things I was initially drawn to in him. It wasn't irresponsibility, as he has a job that he does well at, but a youthful innocence in a lot of ways. Little did I realize that that might have turned out to be a part of this. Before we got married he said that he wanted to have children. And of course didn't tell me anything about the cross dressing/ trans . He said that he really tried, but hiding it was making him miserable. I remember how about 6 months into the marriage he used to frantically pace around our place with his head in his hands and I'd ask him what was wrong. He wouldn't tell me until one day he did.

      Thank you so much for your prayers and support. This is the first morning in over a week that I haven't waken up and started crying or feeling sick. Thank you so much.

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      please forgive all the typos... I hope you can read this... there is no spell checker in this program and whew... I can write a goofy sentence... what did mean to say is, if I had known and my folks had gotten me some help I "wouldn't" have had these amazing kids... and my one piece of advice to you is to find someone who will give you children...they are the delite of my life and truly because I have always been there with my wife to nurture them... I have been able to stay... part of my transition as visualize being their second mom... and I second needed that... I would be crushed beyond repair if I didn't have a good relationship with my kids... start your healing now... it will take a moment... she (your hubby) is very confused at this time, so much so that she is going to do what she thinks is best for her... you can't blame her for her decisions, you have to look at it for what it is... it's really an opportunity for you to both be happy... for alas... in his mind, and I say his on purpose... he can never be the man you need... but... in her mind she is doing the only thing that she can to move him out of your way... in her mind... you both need a good man... remember in "Shawshank redemption" the movie..."Get busy livin or get busy dyin"... it really is true... Ann... you deserve the best so take a year to heal and then get on with you life dear... it's a good eight years before he/she goes through her own puberty as a young woman....and even if she has the great transition of us all... that still puts her around 21 to 24 years of age in her social clock... so if you can get to her and decide to stay... she will at best be about 10 to 12 years behind you in her mental age... you will always be her mom and never her wife... my own relationship with my wife is very much like two women living together... we are still very passionate in everything we do... except the sex... in that dept... it really is more the older lesbian approach... more love and companionship than torrid like when we were kids... but I have my memories of when she ravaged me back then so I love her more than ever...

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      it wouldn't let me finish... but here it is... you will survive and go on to find happiness... he unfortunately will never be happy because he has bought into the lie that if the doctors make him less ... he will become more...that's just not true in out cases... we are born this way and in ancient times we were revered for our opinions... now we are relegated to the jerry springer show... there are many of us who you never see... some go to hospitals and lay healing hands on patients... some prache and lead many to know our God... a ton of us are musicians... look closely at Jagger, Bowie, the singer with Aerosmith... we are hiding in plain sight... comedians , actors, drag queens, stay at home dads... we are here... you just have an immature one... and he may not have been able to help it... his background sounds much ruffer than mine... damn... if I'm a girl why can't I spell...lol... keep your chin up baby girl... either she or he can still be your friend... trans is just like anything else... you can lead us to the waters... but you can't make us drink... and that's sad... I always tell the young ones... you can live your entire life exactly like you want to... change is within not without... but just like this hub says... it doesn't stop me from wanting a nice C or D cup and wishing this one piece fit better in the crotch...lol... I guess they were right... a girl just can't have it all...lol... praying for you dear... so sorry you are having to face this at this time... go find you a young Santa... have your pic made with you sitting on his lap...lol...

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Oh Ann, I am so sorry you are crying... I didn't mean to take you there... but alas... more than likely if he went to the guys house more than once, he has had sex with him... and you can bet he definitely did go down on him... ouch TMI...lol... and more than likely but not always he is lying, and probably cannot bring himself to tell you and even admit it to himself... you must protect yourself from here on... he can give you ...AIDS... so be really careful... he loves himself more than you... and I know you want to hold him and tell him everything will be alright... and if he was bright enough he would know that it's easier to be a woman with a woman by your side coaching you... he can't get over the sex... and that proves he is still mostly a man... there is no emotional bond between most guys in his shoes... just the sex... and you know with girls it's based on the emotional involvement... the most hurtful part of this disorder is the lying... it's what hurt Izettl the most she often says... and in my own case, it is very hard to tell the truth... for one the fear of being rejected, keeps us lying but also there is something else... some weird trigger that says on the inside, it's just me and no one else understands, so it's my business and no ones else... he doesn't realize that you have been through puberty already...

      I know you were not trying to disparage me dear... so I'm find with that and I'm not to sure you are not right... we may all be crazy...lol... I am so sad because he cannot see at this time that you are the wife of a transsexual... he can't though... and you are right he will regret it... another sure sign that he is a man and not a woman... a woman would go through every painful moment living and reliving whether or not to leave...or stay... you know I'm right... a man... well he's got to git er done...lol... how goofy is that...lol... again I am sorry to make you cry... you have enough to handle without me going over there... to clear the face is electrolysis... it will give him time to think and reflect on how he is to live as a woman... plus it does more for your look than hormones for the first few years... and it feels so right and correct that you automatically feel better about yourself... no more shaving that guys face... ouch... and oh so smooth... pass that moisturizer will ya...lol...lol... Kiehls will do for me ma'am... sorry I couldn't resist...

      the burly man is what is known in my circles as a honey or sugar bear... he is gay but needs a woman with some extra bits down here in the panties to make it work for him... he will love you with all of his might as long as he can go down south and visit with your boys parts... sorry dear if that is to crude...it's just as difficult to say as hear... honey bears can be dangerous, if you make them feel they are gay... they can rage even more so than that testosterone tribe that he comes from... again I will say it a second time, you can not have sex with your man ever again without protection... say it to yourself now... you can die from what he is doing and will be doing here for a while... now... your hubby is a child but he is not your child so don't go down that road... that road is closed... if he had chosen to stay with his wife then that would be a great place and like you said, it really is the place that he needs the most... but again... he thinks what he wants is that guy that was with his mom...she branded him for life... trying to look after him, she took him right to the other side, not even meaning to... it's not her fault though, it's his for continuing to obsess on what was in that room... what I wished he knew was he could break the cycle right here with you... and you may be able to get through to him... but be careful remember he has lied all of his life, even to you so he is the best... I know... we all try and do it... my wife knows when I am lying and that has done me some good, because she would say... oh please... you are lying... and I was... so not being a good liar has helped in some ways in my own journey... hey you were not being bias, that sugar bear could have hurt him, even have killed him and this conversation would not exist..

      He has cheated... he went to another man's house and lied to you... wake up little suzie wake up...lol... might as well laugh as cry... that BS about I feel like I'm a woman in side... he doesn't know what a woman feels inside... that's what this hub is about, he can feel what he things a woman might feel like but that's it... I told my group, I could never be a woman, I have worn this coat of being a man so long, I could never fully take it off, and because I have not practiced all my life being a girl, there is no way I can make up the time I have lost and become the girl that I think that I might be... so I am both I am two spirited because I have been that all my life and that approach is really the only one he can ever achieve... he can never be fully man because of this ansgt that holds him and makes him feel he is a woman... but can never be a woman because he was born and has practiced most of his life being a man... we are two... two spirits living as one... it's simple to me...but probably not that simple to single spirits like yourself... I used to dream about being one or the other... then I finally said nope... I'm neither... but now izettl was right when she said I am a trans that decided to stay in my birth body... but not always happy with that choice... I would rather be the woman I believe I am inside but my practical male side says no... and I love him even though I created him to protect me and live in your world... what happened is we are all hyper sensitive little boys, so sensitive that our parents didn't see or couldn't see because they were bustin their own butts to provide for us... I don't blame my folks, but I do wished some times they had gotten some help for me... but if they had... I would have had these wonderful children and they are sooooooo wonderful... and grand kids... hey... get your butt in gear and help your hubby, but get out there and find a good man who wants you and from that desire children will bless his life... and in that respect I am all man and all woman... I long for that some times... the feeling of having life growing in my belly... to feel that first kick... to lay in the arms of a man and be over powered... to birth a child and hold him to my breast... all the things you thought of early on... but hey, it is what it is... so I have made this work for me in this situation... and you may be able to get to your guy like that...

      it could be viewed as a bargain with the devil but more than likely it's just a bargain with a very confused guy... so don't make that deal... it will turn on you... and do I feel gay, absolutely not... I feel that I want a man just like you do and I deserve one at that... but that's not what I thought when I took this woman's hand that I married... and hey I love her completely and when we were young, she was the kinkiest chick I had ever met... my first sexual encounter with anyone and when Jimi Hendrix asked ... are you experienced... she answered with a resounding ... yes... she worn me out and still does... but my natural inclination was to be very oral... oral first... intercourse came second... but I learned and she was an amazing teacher... now many years later, and after hormones, there hasn't been intercourse in over 22 years... strictly oral... exclusively for her... she treats me more like the wife and she is more like the husband, but very fem but still very much the boss...

      you feel shame dear because you feel he duped you and he did in some ways, but he may not have known... I didn't really know or I would have never married... hey I'm so glad I did though... it has been quite a ride...lol... and so lovely in so many ways... hey that post card with the fluffy clouds... is just photo shopped in although our in Wyoming the skies are never gray and the sun sets like no where else in the world... lol... and thank you for coming to Izettl site..she is a joy and one smart cookie... and tall and beautiful.........

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Jeanine,

      What do you mean by "clear the face". You said something like, do the face before she transitions. Do you mean plastic surgery, or electrolysis or something.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      One more thing.

      I don't think my husband feels good about leaving. I've been crying everyday. I keep it from him mainly, but I've been crying. He's just been feeling sick.

      He's packed about 40% of his things, but has stalled in doing more for days. And he's been having an upset stomach and feeling tired and achy. He can be seemingly ok, and then we'll talk about him moving or not staying and he'll say he feels tired and sick. This morning we were talking about it, he left the house to go to work, a few seconds he was back and throwing up in the bathroom. Over and over like 7 times. I went in to see what was going on because after the 3rd retch I knew it was serious. We both wondered after it was over where all of the liquid came from, because he had only had one cup of water this morning and he threw up liquid fully 7 times.

      Although in the long run, and maybe also the short, it's good that he moves out and we divorce, I know that he knows that it's not going to be easy or the most comfortable existence for him. He says that it's done, and that he has to go now because he's signed a lease but inside I think he knows something. I've never seen him with stomach issues like this.

      He says he doesn't even want to think about any of this. That he'll think about it once he's gone and moved out. I've been trying to deal with this now.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl and Jeanine,

      I want to thank you so much again. Thank you so much for your support and your prayers. It's been hard, but the both of you both and God have been the light that I can see in the darkness I am living in right now. The postcard of a sunny place with fluffy clouds in a blue sky that I can look at to prove to myself that places like that do exist, and maybe one day I can live there too.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      (continued)

      Maybe it's my bias, thinking that he could have been hurt by that person. But I think it is common sense. My husband admitted the experience was scary, and real life situations occur where people can be crazy and strangers can hurt you. The first two times, my husband used a work emergency as an excuse to leave this persons apartment. Ironically, the same work excuse he used on one of the occasions to leave me and go to this persons place.

      Thank you for saying what you did about the self- absorption being the only thing keeping you from running around. My husband says that once he leaves he will be freer to dress up and I guess try to meet people. He said he hasn't "cheated" on me, but respects me too much to do what he wants to do while living in the same house as me.

      Maybe, even though it's not happening in my head, you are right. He is gay. And all of the trans stuff is an excuse that he's giving himself with guilt over what he holds as a belief about right and wrong. But either way, this is what he says he believes. That he is a woman inside, that he does not like being married, that he loves me, but he wants to do things that he can't do when he is living with me. He wants to stay married indefinitely, but said if I want a divorce that he will pay for it. I want one, even though my heart doesn't want one, and I think he will be getting us that divorce around the first of the new year.

      Please tell me more about your feelings again Jeanine. Are you saying that you really feel that you are gay, but somehow have come to mask this by dressing and making it more complicated somehow? I think I understood what you meant, but I don't think inunderstand completely or may have misunderstood somethings.

      Izettl,

      I haven't read your moms hub yet. When you said that she had one it actually scared me a little. I think I'm afraid to read it and cry a lot. I'm scared to see my situation in hers. Scared to hear that for some reason she still misses him and is still hurting, because that is something that is scaring me the most. I don't want to be scarred by this for the rest of m life. I don't want to have it ruin my future. I will read it today. I am nervous though.

      For me, staying married to my husband feels like that bargain with the devil. He was talking about taking a vacation together early in the next year, and staying friends that hung out on the weekends. For me, that would be like accepting the very least of marriage. Having a husband in name only but being used, humiliated, and not allowed to have the very least in being able to plan a future with your spouse. Alone to handle all of the bills yourself, alone to figure out a way to make his life apart more comfortable. A servant, a bowed backed nothing, offering whatever I had worked for to him at his door. A defeated mouse, a wretch. His wife. A perversion. Nothing near a place of honor and protection that a wife should have.

      I could see myself (which I will not settle for- even after all of this) driving to his new apartment, paying the toll myself, picking him up, taking him to the mall or wherever he wants to go. Watching him pick out clothes at forever 21. Going to dinner, probably paying for my half of the meal or the whole thing if he tell sme a story about how finances are tight even though his moving out made them that way. Delivering him back tom his apartment, seeing that he's ok. Asking if he needs anything. Is he warm enough, is he eating, does he have the warm clothes he needs, how's his commute, work.... And then getting in the car and driving home alone. Wasting time on my husband who has left me as a single person. I'd have the ring and nothing else. That won't happen to me.

      But it's horrific that that is actually an option. And I know it's happened. There are a million crazy things on this earth that happen. But I hate that this is an option that is being given to me. It is a sad devils bargain. It's not even a traditional bargain. I only suppose it would be if the legal title was all I cared about. I will read your mothers hub now. I never navigate away from this page because I'm scared to lose it, but I think I can figure out to open this site on another page and find hers too. Thank you so much. God I wonder when the crying will ever end? Did you cry much when dealing with your father? How long did it take before you felt normal?

      Do you ever personally feel ashamed? I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I feel a lot of shame and it's hard to know why.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Jeanine,

      I will probably write another response soon, but I reached a part of your post that had me sobbing so uncontrollably that I couldn't finish it and I'm still crying now so I don't know I'm typing but I'm trying but I want to get this out.

      I didnt say what I did about mental illness to disparage anyone. It's the only way I can explain the changes in thinking he has because of what he has gone through. What you've described about him wanting the love in the room when his mother was with other men rings true to me and makes me cry. I think my husband is making a mistake leaving me. I think he will turn out to have similar feelings as your friend who regrets having left. But I know, sadly, that his leaving will be a better thing for me. There is a lot of pain, and when he is gone I will be able to heal. But I cry because I know my love for him is very special. That I would have carried him although it was breaking my body, I would have carried him until it killed me. And how many people would love him like that? Who would do that? I cry because I think he's walking away from someone who would have done anything to make his life better. And I hurt for him because of this. This and I know that one he leaves I know that I will not be back. I don't know how to not make that sound not narcissistic or self centered, but I mean that in the purest way possible.

      That it's like he's my child and i know that once he leaves he will be lonely and that he will struggle, and I never wanted that for him. No one in his life is caring for him the way I do. And the men he tries to meet I know aren't going to take care of him.

      It's doubly sad because I know it seems like I've required no true reciprocity of those feelings and consideration from him. And I didn't because I came to accept it wasn't going to be there from him to me or anybody else. But I wanted to protect and care for him, and that is what I focused on, hoping in a possible pipe dream that if I was good, and took the best care that he would love me to an extent in the way I love him, if only because he needed me.

      A month ago I found correspondence on his phone between him and someone he met online. Someone that he had sent pictures of himself dressed up to. He was looking for approval on his looks. And ended up meeting with this person. After arguing about this after days had passed, he admitted that he had been scared. (he went to this persons house.- after finding the messages that contained this persons address I also went to the house and spoke with the next door neighbor that said that this person had men and women coming constantly, and that a woman once said she had seen him with a man).

      While I was talking to the neighbor the man came up the stairs. Even without the neighbor telling me. I knew that it was the person. I looked in his eyes briefly as he passed me and there was something crazy in them. He was a burly, compact strong looking man, about 5'9" about the same height but stronger than my husband. When he passed and went inside the building, I wondered to the neighbor if I should talk to him. The neighbor looked frightened and said not to because " you don't know how people will react when they're cornered".

      According to the correspondence my husband went to see the man three times. The first two times he left suddenly, and after the third time he didn't return. He said they didn't have sex. It almost doesn't matter. He lied and he went. But when we were calmer he admitted that the man scared him and that he knew that those were they types of people that were out there for girls like him.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ann~ not sure if you got a chance to visit my mom's hub about her experience, but one thing she mentioned was that my dad offered to live under the same roof so my mom and I would not have to move because if they divorced, the house would have to be sold. My mom said the "deal" was like an offer selling her soul to the devil. I do respect her for finally putting us before my dad. She did not take him up on the deal. Now should you settle for the living conditions your husband is offering you.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Anne, I went back up and read some of your post again, and there is something I can address about the child your husband was forced to be... when love is absent from the child especially trans, we do some strange things... I know in my own case, my father had such an undying love but also such a need for my mothers love, that there never seemed to be any love left over for me or my sister from him... now my mom was so busy servicing him that we didn't get as much love as we needed from her also....so in my own family, that one hyper need from my dad, changed us all. My sister became more aggressive , while I became more submissive... she figured she would win his love by being more like him... I figured I would win his love by being more like my mom... but as you can see, both of his children wanted more love from him... I share this so you might see, a small boy in that room next too his mom's as she is being ravaged. He doesn't know what is going on in there, all he knows is there is some kind of love in there... and he wants it... when love is denied we will do anything to survive the hurt and emptiness that is looming so large in out own lives. So part of your husbands picture comes from those days... he saw his mom dressed just as he wants to dress now... in his mind he is getting ready to be loved, because that's what he saw was love between a man and a woman.... she would more than likely be dressed for the night, maybe a little slutty, you can actually see how she was dressed if you tell him you want an escort for the night... he'll replicate what he saw... young minds are so delicate and we all are changed by our circumstance... unfortunately for your husband, he is a prime canidate for prostitution, so he does need to get help.... for although he says he is not interested in the men... he is interested in that love that he missed from his father and in the small boys mind, his mother was getting that love she missed from his father in that room with all those other guys... he wants what was in that room, although he may not even know that t this time... I could be totally wrong, but hey you think what we all have is a mental illness anyway, so take everything I say with a grain of salt...lol...lol... sorry I couldn't resist saying that...lol... might as well laugh as cry dear... I'm telling you this where if you do have the chance to break into his fantasy, you may save his life... it is very dangerous being transsexual in this world, one of dies every few minutes if you follow the numbers... mostly from violent deaths inflicted by raging men... do not have a child with this man, although this is considered a mental illness at this time, as time goes on, there will be more support for the argument that TS is in our DNA... that discussion is for another time....

      This strain or side of homosexuality is blatantly deceptive... most of us want a man deep inside, yet, either because of our hatred for men, which is probably where your husbands thoughts lie, or our spiritual taboos will not allow it in our own lives, or like mine, I just needed more love from my dad, so I wanted to be my mom, I thought that was the easiest path to him loving me, we all really do have a problem with telling the truth and just saying... I'm gay and I need a man... our own belief system gets in the way, so we make all these hoops for our own person to have to jump through... and here's the kicker... when we are children and start to grow into being teen boys, this type of child is repulsed that he could have these types of thoughts deep within him... so here comes some insight... when we first start to make these hurdles as children, we tell ourselves, well I would have to be a woman or a girl before I could really accept a man within me... and that thought... that one simple thought... holds the homosexual urge at bay for most of our lives... that one thought also accounts now for the selfishness that consumes our lives... on one hand she continues to say to him, I could never like a boy as long as I have this birth defect of having a penis, and the one thing that has saved his life as a boy every other time turns on him... he has obsessed for so long that he is really her deep inside... instead of admitting he is gay and wants a man, he has replaced the gay thoughts with I am really a girl or a woman and I just want to be her... later as we become her, it's alright for a woman to want a man. I hope you are getting this insight, because I believe it is where we are as TS individuals... so the one thing that saved us as children... "I would want a guy if I were a girl... but I'm not so I don't want a guy anymore"... so instead of us accepting we are gay we have this massive stream of why we can't accept a guy into this body... understand... we are caught in a hell that we created for ourselves... this behavior manifest itself to the rest of you as massively selfish, when in reality, we are running down the road screaming, I am a girl, I am a girl, not so much because we want that, but because our socialization has not matured any further than that of a young teen aged boy... who has not and does not know how to become a man... didn't you say... my husband still acts like a child.... he is dear... his social behavior is still back at the hotel room next to his mom's... now you can say, we are mentally impaired... and you will be right... how depressing huh... sorry... but I needed you to hear where we really are... the truth is, if he can pass and he is young enough or really if he can pass, he will be fine with a man finally and he will be a great friend... if he can not pass, he is in for a lifetime of hurt... I say all of this to make sure you understand that the selfishness that we all appear to have, is really the trigger we have all used to keep away from dropping to our knees and servicing that cute boy over in the corner... because our self esteem is and has been shattered for a very long time...

      unfortunate to say the least, but it will not get better for you... if he handles it right, it will get better for him/her... try and get her to do her face before she transitions... it takes years and was the best thing I ever did... to clear the face really does do more for feeling and looking like the woman he thinks he is or the woman he really is... and now of us can really say he is or he is not... we are all a little mental.... how bout those guy who walk the tight rope across the grand canyon... yeah that's normal... abby something... lol... abby normal...lol... anyway... I am so sorry you have this teenager on your hands... damn that has to be hard... not having a child as a baby, then all of a sudden having a teen girl, that's to big of her panties... oh my... do I feel the spirit of slap coming on my hand... I know you love him or you wouldn't have given him your hand... try to stay friends, but find a man... that's what he's doing... he just can't tell you yet... and the worse part is... he?she can't tell himself yet... will be praying for you...

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      They will lift dear and he will one day come to his senses... I have another beautiful friend who gave up her wife and child and she regrets it to this day... she passes and is a very good woman at heart and very helpful in all she does... but by the time she realized what she has done, her wife had moved on and remarried... it's the saddest thing... but she helps others of us to stay strong and see our family... and in reality that is what has happened... he does still love very much, it's just some triggers we carry as two spirited people that others do not... the problem lies in that will lost our history... we have always been here... we were there at the pyramids, there when Moses parted the sea, there with Napoleon's side... we were counselors to the ancients. We are here today, but just not openly doing the jerry springer show... lol... we are and were men who know a little about both sexes, we were never meant to be women or men... we are both and as long as we stay both we are unique... it's when we listen to the medical community that we get confused and I can never understand how the Doctor making me less will make me more of a valued person... I am both and there are many of us... trans to us are our beautiful sisters... immature sisters but still our tribes... look at this way... if you had a rare mental ability and your parents had no education in those things... then they might consider you crazy, that's what happens to us when we are small boys... we have gifts but our parents are our guides, I was lucky in that my father and mother were from the country... they did n't say either one on me was wrong... just on this day I was him and on this day I was her... they valued both spirits within me... so by the time I ran in to some people who thought I was weird... I just agreed and went on with my life... now it is not an easy thing to live this long as both, but the key has been my family and mostly my wife... she is the easiest person in the world to love... but she doesn't take any of my stuff nor did she when I was acting up and being more the teen girl sometimes in wanting my way... thankfully we lived through that and now I can at least make a meal on time and serve it to our family...lol... and hey that's not an easy thing you know that... guys are so funny, they think we just run in the kitchen and whip something up...lol...lol.. Izettl and I always laugh and say, if trans had to stay with a baby for a year changing diapers there would be a lot less full transitions... I had three in diapers at once so, I learned to absolutely love this male body I have ... I am a man... I think I am I think I am I think I am...lol... that's how you can see if she is a man also... if she would have a baby and then consider a second, only women can do that... I could never do that... ya'll have selective memory... you don't remember that the bowling ball actually came through miss thangs yes ma'am...lol.. damn... I 'm a man I'm a man,,, I think I am I think I am,... etc... etc..lol... alast you do deserve a man... and if she is really a woman and I hope for her sake she is... she deserves one also...

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Thank you Jeanine and Izettl,

      Jeanine,

      Thank you so much for your post and sharing your experience. I have spoken with him and that is definitely not how he feels unfortunately. I did get my answer. Because based on what you've said- there isn't much of a woman in there. I think it is body dysmorphia or else something else I don't understand because he is only willing to put himself first.

      I am so proud of you to hear you describe your feelings of love and protection towards your family. My self esteem has been damaged but I think that even without a sexual relationship with your spouse anyone would want their spouse to want to protect them and their family like that. Thank you for your prayers. I'll need them. I started contacting divorce attorneys today. He wanted to separate and stay married legally indefinitely I guess because he wanted me to hold on emotionally and continue to be there for him, and so he could do whatever he wanted, but I know I have to move on with my life completely and not continue to be used and hurt and manipulated by him.

      You know, if he had been like you I would have admired him and I would have wanted to stay, never thought of leaving with my whole heart. I think I would have been happy. Initially i would have been concerned about the things i didnt understand, but I tried to be understanding, and it was only me making the accomidations. It was only me working to protect, support and take care of him, while I was left to take care of myself. I would love to live knowing that my spouse loved me and wanted to build and protect his family.

      That's not what it is though. And you're right. I do deserve to have a man who has none of these issues. Most importantly, someone who can genuinely care for others outside of themselves. Thank you so much for your words and support. These days are dark. But I have faith that one day, and hopefully soon, the clouds will lift and I will be restored again.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Ann, keep your chin up, I believe you have to let him go.... I am also a two spirited individual (trans).... but stayed in the body because I chose to try and put my family first... and although, there is damage to my own person, my children have turned out to be strong wonderful, loving men... I know Izettl and I always talk about if we as trans are really women, what women do you know that would intentionally hurt her children.... not one... so your guy is still a guy in my eyes, he just wants something else and hey this gift we all have is on going and doesn't go away... I still struggle everyday, but am so proud to be my childrens father and I do find some strange affinity with being like their second mother because I was able to put my wife and family first.... I think I have had the greatest opportunity to learn through this process, that women do suffer in silence.... and that suffering and pain in my case has turned into an unspeakable joy when I see my sons living their lives without the burden that Izettl has explained so well... somehow I feel more of a woman for the sacrifice that I have lived for my family. And although it has not been easy, I must say that I would have gone the way of so many others of my sisters if I hadn't had a wife that stood up and demanded that I do the right thing for my family...again I found some relief in realizing that most genetic females would listen to their best girlfriend, which in my case is my wife... my entire family knows of my condition so I am not hidden. The allowing them to live their lives has allowed me to explore what a real mom might feel... I am an artist so my life has been easier than most because I was never bound to wear male or female clothing... which for us as women or the women we believe we are inside is a major part of what we feel is missing... the reality is after the transition, more than likely after the newness wears off, she'll still slip into her favorite jeans and her shoe size will remain the same and probably her fav shoes will still be her sneakers... what has happened and what generally happens to all of us as trans is we become euphoric in that we had the nerve to finally take the step to transition and believe me when I say, there is not much he can do about it...it really is on going everyday, all day long...so that being said... try and be her friend but do not subject your children to this man in a dress at this time...and God will make the funds up, just look for them in places you haven't looked... it's a long shot but if you can get him to look on the web for "Two spirited" people, he can see where our tribe came from.... the transsexual phenomenon is just the latest Eunuch to our tribe... because you can get new equipment, it's kinda the new vogue thing to do...and I do have many friends that are truly women inside.... the most convincing TS I know though is a young girl from New Orleans and she has always lived at a girl or since she was 9 I guess... she is absolutely drop dead gorgeous but she is also the first to ask our group, if you are all girls why is it you are still with women...lol...now that to me is a real girl question... ask him does he want a man or a woman... that lesbian thing in the TS community is strange to me...in the general population gays and lesbians are about 12 to 17% of the population... in the trans community it is 77% and some believe even higher... that's makes no sense to me as a woman... or a man... as a woman if I am going to get new equipment... you damn well better believe I want something real in there I can feel... as a man, if I am going to spend the buck on this new shiny...lol... I'm gonna get my monies worth or I am gonna take back...lol...lol... so, that being said... most TS in your husbands case are just little boys with a fantasy to me... now that being said, it's still very real to the little boy so I feel for him in that respect...I think all trans that know before they marry and transition are women... I think most who do not transition before marriage with children, should never transition.... again the reason I say this is the true woman would and will never do anything to hurt her children on purpose... unless she is sick or mental in some way... again let me say... you are very brave but you also deserve a real man... just as every woman wants... now that being said also... I am in love with the woman I live with for over forty years...she is my everything... and I am a very happy woman living in this mans body... with my wife... which would make me Lesbian in the medical books... but I learned long ago that I don't really fit into any of their categories... and I think that's the way it should be... what your boy has is body dysphoria... and hey it's a real thing... if you want to keep him... then keep him... the girl inside of him needs you to stand up and tell him what he is going to do... if he is doing hormones he is already on the journey to his teen years and you remember that with your mom... not a pretty picture...lol... so you either end up being her mom for the next ten years or you strike out on your own adventure... I would suggest the latter... believe me... when she finds out out unaccepting the world is... she will be back... but you must talk with her before she leaves and let her know that there will be love for her but no return... even if she tells you she'll put her girl back in the closet... she can't and she shouldn't really... this trans thing is a real thing... I just have a different look because I stayed and toughed it out... and hey it's tough everyday...at this age... I want to and do dress even chance I get... so it is damaging to my own character to not have transitioned fully... hormones will help... and make her feel more whole... be her friend but not wife... she has a long road to travel and this road is bumpy to say the least... look for something for you and your children... only a selfish man chooses himself over his family... a woman would choose her children and her mate... in your husbands defense... our tribe(two spirited ) were known throughout history as healers and advisers to kings and queens also we were fore tellers of the future events that would happen to man and womankind... a lot of us believe that many of us are jumping ship and becoming women because of the coming age when women will rule... and we want to make it to the front of the line so to speak...it is a collective fantasy that we all have... strange but true... you can ask your husband and he has it... the fantasy is that he is being forced to be a woman...and he is kinda... but it's his own discomfort with the male body... or his being hyper beta as a male that is really driving him to be this way... the alpha male has never felt this feelings... nor will he ever... so in a way, this is nature culling out the weaker sex in men... and I know how harsh that sounds but hey, it is what it is... praying for you... you will make it through and come here, Izettl and I have been here for years now...we both believe there should be more support for the families of these men who are on their own selfish journey... and I say that because I know the journey... and it is a beautiful gift if one does not damage those around them... family first... family first... it's the the thing that women... real women do... "no matter what... I would kill any man who tried to hurt my children... and that includes the one I live in... hope that makes sense... read it to him if you get a chance... if he is a woman, it will affect her... if he isn't, well then you have your answer... and will see clearly the path you must take... to protect your children... is the only thing...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Don't want to sound harsh because I love my parents and know they love me. I also know my mom sacrificed her self esteem to stay in that marriage. She wrote a couple of hubs on here. Look her up on hubpages as Char M

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      Thank you so much for that. I know that you are 100% right. I need to think about what you said and let it settle in. But I agree with everything you said. Thank you so much for sharing what you know

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ann~ Not to be a little corny here, but I watch Dr. Phil when I get the chance. It's my guilty pleasure. Anyway, he always says it is better for children to be FROM a broken home than IN a broken home. I love my mom but have never gained respect back for her. It still maked me angry that she didn't think it would ever effect me to see my dad walking around in full slips and dressing up...without ever putting up a fight with him. My dad had a huge effect on my self-esteem, never feeling girly enough because I preferred jeans over skirts. I don't think it would have been bad in any way to take me away from that situation. My mom would have been a better role model had she stood up to him at least, but she accepted all of it.

      There is a twist to my story too. At 10 yrs old my mom and dad finally divorced (after total of 18 yrs marriage) and after my dad cheated on my mom with another much younger woman. Who expect that from a cross dresser? But that shows that even my dad did not respect my mom. After being with my dad for so long, my mom lost herself and who she was as a woman. I'd say it's all cons to your husband staying, but I'm bias.

      My mom did attempt to give me a step parent- after the divorce she went out and to bars a lot to find someone. Would have been nice just to have my mom. I never felt like a priority to her (I was an only child). She always said she did it for me, but not true. She did it all for herself- it was easier to stay so my advice don't take the easy way right now because it would be much harder later on. I got to see the selfishness in my mom from just staying and going along with it all and in my dad from putting his dress-up before me too. Not a good situation. I love my mom and have relationships with both my mom and dad, but do not respect them. Sad, but true. My mom said people didn't divorce often back then, but that excuse still doens't hold up to me.

      And perhaps because I saw my mom do what she did, it has made me strong in my relationships. I don't put up with crap- I would not sacrifice my kids or myself. If it's like this now and he knows he's hurting you, he will never respect you if you stayed. I've seen it first hand.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      He's in the process of boxing things up to move out next week now. He says he's trying not to think about it. That is all really sad.

      I'm extremely stressed out. I think when it's over it will feel like a major relief. However, now, seeing all of the boxes piling up in the living room it's still really hard. I make lists in my head pro and con, why I'd want him to stay or leave. Despite how I feel I can only think of one pro for why he should stay, and that's only for minimal financial ease. It doesn't make sense. I know I don't feel this way over only a few hundred dollars.

      But there a long list of cons of why he should stay. I have major stress over his many issues, his friends and family have been in laws and friend nightmares, he cross dresses, takes female hormones, is extremely selfish, only wants to entertain himself despite that not helping to better our future and family.... The list goes on. I seemed to be hanging onto that at least when he was trying to have fun most of the time he included me. It's really tough, but I'm hanging in there. He should be moved out completely by next Saturday.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      I forgot to add.. Or would you have her rather her taken you away and raised you by herself?

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      Thank you for that. There really is a 'trying' imbalance. So I agree with what you said. I tried to rationalize by saying it was easier for me to try than him for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't really make sense. He's said he doesn't want a divorce, just that he's moving out and that if I want one in order to marry again that he will give it to me.

      I completely see how it would be about self esteem and happiness. Parents are supposed to be positive role models for their children. I've seen my own mother make unreasonable sacrifices for my father -although nothing this extreme. And I think as much as I wouldn't want a child of mine going through this, I don't think a child wants their parent going through it, at least just as much.

      If you don't mind me asking. Do you think your mothers staying in that situation with your father led your relationship to be not as good because of that choice? Do you feel that because your mother didn't take you and leave that it kept you from trusting her to provide a better life for you? Would you have rather her attempted to give you a step parent rather than keep you in the same home with your father?

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ann~I respect my mom less because she did not leave my dad sooner, she was with him at least 10+ years after knowing he cross dressed. Ironically he got the divorce. I am disappointed that she lowered herself to stay with him and compromise herself in that he did not give his all to the marriage as she did. I hope that helps to let you know that- I would have repsected her more for letting him go long before she finally did. I know, like you, she wanted it to work, maybe also hoped he was bluffing, but I wanted her to be happy and she wasn't for so long. That's what kids want for their parents as much as parents want for them- to see them happy. My mom has had a weight problem since the divorce and I think her self-worth was damaged on some level because she settled for his actions that compromised their marriage. She put him first and he put his female clothes and things he ordered in catalogs ahead of her. She dressed down while he dressed up. Don't compromise yourself.

      All of this has gotten me to accept my parents as they are a little bit more. I wish my dad and I discussed his transition a bit more, but honestly I think that itme has expired. In the beginning when it was a good time to ask those questions, we got in an argument about everyhting else, and didn't speak for nearly two years. When we began speaking again, the trans topic was never discussed or brought up.

      My relationship got better once my dad stated that she still wanted to be known as dad by me and grandpa to my kids. Those kind of things are difficult to navigate- not knowing what they want to be referred as- mamm or sir, etc. 12 years and it still isn't much easier to not offend her in some way, unknowingly. I still mix it up sometimes and refer to her as him or vice versa.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      How is your relationship with your mother now? Has your relationshipmwith your father changed or improved since the last time you saw him? Did your mother know he was like this before she married him?

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      I wanted to post again since I'm still going through this. I was thinking the other day about your mother and how you said that you also had some resentment towards her at one time for putting you in this position with your father in whatever capacity she had. It's given me a lot to think about. I think you said that you've now forgiven/ come to peace with your mothers role in all this and that's good.

      I wonder if your mother knew your father was like this when they married. I think I also empathize with your mother as well because although my husband and I am divorcing, inhave wrestled with staying with him. Even with all the madness. There have been good times and horrible times in our marriage. I grew to like cuddling, when he was dressed somewhat gender neutral, and beleive it or not, I enjoyed not having sex. Strangely enough, I actually liked just cuddling and not feeling any sexual pressure. I grew to like the societal benefit of being married, even as my home life was turning more and more into a freak show.

      I will start dating again when my husband moves out this month. We care for and love each other, but it's getting to be too much. He began to grow breasts and now wears bras all the time because of the hormones he's taking and I had to stop bringing him around my father so he wouldn't know and freak out about it. Just a few minutes ago my dad asked if I was bringing my husband with me for Christmas, and I said no. My husband and I will not be living together anymore by that time.

      Strangely enough, as much of all of this has been, my husband said that he wants to help me have a child. He is going to go to his LGbT doctor and find out what he has to do in order to give a sample that can be used for IvF, or IuI. Oh, and he also has pamphlets lying around about sex reassignment surgery.

      There are moments where I've thought 'oh- he's just bluffing. He'd never get his genitals cut off.'. I find myself crying - a lot when I'm alone a knowing that is he's come this far, it's not unlikely that this will actually happen. I cry because he hates his body and himself so much that he would do this. I cry because for some reason he can't see that his body was perfectly fine the way it is.

      Out of respect for my marriage I won't meet anyone or talk too long on the phone with anyone until we are separated and he's moved out. My husband wants me to come to his office Christmas party with him the night before he moves out. He's moving to a one bedroom apartment with no furniture and plans to use an air mattress for a bed. He says eventually he will have enough money for the surgery.

      He says he will visit the doctor because he wants to help me have a baby. It's tragic. When he's not around I cry about a lot of things, and I also think of you and your mother. I wonder if she was like me. Did she hope he was only bluffing when he told her things? Did she think that if theynhad a child tha somehow it would be fine- like kind of close enough to normal that it would be a small thing, something easily adapted to? Did she see him as a person she loved, her spouse, and not a gender really, just the person she loved? Was she comfortable in her life then and scared of the unknown? Would she have done it again if she had known? Not done it at all? Only got out sooner?

      It's devastating divorcing, although it is the only solution. My husband is firm about leaving and I have tried my best. I know that if he didn't leave I would have only lasted the next few weeks before the stress, 3 years in the making, finally took me down. I had to research beta blockers on the Internet to find something to naturally calm me down. (my adrenaline was always up the past few days, my heart was continually racing).

      I'm glad you are finally finding some peace and have a lovely family. Maybe I will find a new one that I will love too. But I swear to you, more than anything I wanted this one to work. And that is when I think of your mother. As long as she loved you, which I know she does, I have to believe that she tried the best she could because I have and still am. It's terribly hard. I don't think many people want to leave their spouse when they loved them as individuals.

      I have images of that scene in Titanic whew Rose has to let Jacks hand go and sees him floating down into the ocean. That my spouse has been shot and we're in a desolate area without transportation and I'm trying to drag his body wherever I'm going. It's so had but I wonder if those are some of the feeling your mother faced. And since he didn't leave the family, she found it easier to stay. Luckily, the choice has been made. But, I admit, at least right now it is not a great relief.

      Since seeing your dad after the change, has your relationship improved up to now? How are your feelings towards him and your mother- have they plateaued or is it still something that changes? I am not considering using the sample if he ever produces one, but he says he wants to do that for me, so I'm not going to stop him. If anything it seems like he wants to do this to me he loves me, so I'm not in a emotional position right now to discuss it.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      I support you all... trans and the family... we have got to start caring more on both sides... until there are not two sides... just side by side... stop the lying ... that's stops the hurt... when the hurt stop... the hate will go away... peace is a real place...

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Jeanine~ You have a way with words and know just how to explain in a way i can't. Trans 101 can't force people to accept them and being hateful isn't one way to set an example. Trans 101 is acting the way he/she doesn't want others to act toward trans.

      Ann Stacy~ so glad you found this cause I wrote it for others like me, like my mom. There isnt much support the families of trans.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sam~ you are absolutely correct. In general Trans do not mean harm, probably want to be left alone and accepted at best. When it's in the family though somehow hurt transpires. I have other hubs about this and the main idea is that there are lies and those are always hurtful. My mom was lied to by my dad and so was I as a child. Whether it's an intended lie or not, it usually works out to be a hurtful mess.

      Trans101~ interesting but mostly strange. What is "sun knowledge". I accept people as they are, but famiy dynamics are much more than not bieng hateful or staring at a trans walking down the street. Anne married a man and she got someone who wants to be a woman. Not only that, trans typically put that before their families and become selfish, even obsessive about womanly adornments. Anybody would be hurt by that. It sounds very hateful when you say the word "ignorance". So basically you're judging. Your comment has no meritt.

    • profile image

      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Izettl, I feel the same way... I am trans and love my family and will go to my grave trying to put them first instead of myself... Trans 101 is a dinosaur in the TS world... there are a lot of us now that don't demand that each of you change just because we are changing and there are a lot of us that are trying not to hurt those closest to us... Trans 101... it's not ignorance it's simply a new and different attitude than your own... just as women and men are changing today intonew creatures... so is the trans community... we have been screaming for years that we need more rights well they are coming dear, but they will not come with you trying to force everyone to see it your way... it's not the worlds fault that you are different... and it's not there job to accept you... it's your job to be acceptable in the society, so if you want to keep yelling I'm trans ... I'm trans and you will have to accept me... good luck with that .... I know my own journey is not to be trans but to be a woman and live my life... if you want to be a trans all your life then fins... I have no problem with that, but if you really are trans, what is your goal, to be a woman like you say you are, or to get the rest of the world the make way for Mrs Transsexual and miss thang... it is not my desire to be an advocate all my life... I just want to be left alone and be the woman I believe I am and have been all my life... now tell me again what it is you want to be that makes all the rest of us stupid... sounds like a man to me... women are much more articulate than you seemed to be expressing, so... ignorance is following you dear... now if Izettl wants to expressed herself... how is that any different than you expressing yourself as being trans... it's not... so suck it up and either be a damn woman or be a transsexual.....which is it for you dear... I know it's not easy... but what is easy in this life... wake up, just as you said and accept people as they are... well if you want that from her... surely you being the bigger woman... lol... you can afford the same idea for izettl right... hope you are doing something about that angry spot you are trying to scratch over here...

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      I just wanted to thank you again for posting your story on your hub. Before reading it I didn't have anyone that I knew in person or online that had been through a similar circumstance and reading your hub has helped me so much. Thank you again.

      (I apologize if this is a duplicate post)

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Trans101- what are you talking about?

      Ignorance? The "woman you call father"??

      Why don't you learn to have some empathy? You sound like another one of those people that thinks their feelings and wants are law and everyone else just has to bend. Please continue making everything about yourself as I can tell you do. Don't consider anyone else's feelings. And please continue to be dismissive and insulting when told of someone else's pain. It's a really good look for you. And obviously we could never expect anything better out of you.

    • profile image

      trans101 4 years ago

      How about you learn something, step outside the cave of ignorance and embrace the sun knowledge, which will tell you to accept all humans for who they are, not who they are trying to be, or where, we're all shadows on the way to oblivion, we we'll all one day expire and die, gain some wisdom of acceptance, accept you are ignorant and then learn how not to be ignorant. It's the only hope you have of ever understanding that woman you keep calling father.

    • samowhamo profile image

      samowhamo 4 years ago

      @ izettl

      I am sorry if your dad has hurt you in some way by doing this. I personally feel a great deal of sympathy for tanssexuals because of the bashing they get from a lot of people but I do understand that sometimes it is equally hard for there family and friend. Well keep your chin up and please try not to be mad at or hate all transsexuals I am sure they mean no harm in what they do.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Ann~ I sense some irritation and rightfully so because the selfishness of trans can often be overwhelming. The hardest part is there isn't a happ compromise. You woud like him to simply be a man you married and he would like to be a woman. My friend abover, Jeanine, is basically living both and while I have the utmost respect for her, she is not living the way she wants to, but only because she is not selfish and has put her family first. As you can see there is no compromise- somebody or many people will be hurt no matter how this plays out.

      I think you are onto something with the mental illness. However, I don't think trans itself is a mental illness but somethign related to whether they have it prior to obsessing over being female or it turns into that. I think there is something there prior to and then it turns into this trans manifestation.

      Much controversy on this...just watch a show on the controversial therapy for gay going straight and I realized the therapy for trans is all supportive and not many question their decisions or go through a full mental evaluation...other than spending time living as a woman.

      Elderberry arts~ thank you for the supportive comment and votes!

      lrc7815~ Thank you for taking my message in it's intended way. I think it took me time to learn what a woman was and not be ashamed or unsure because my dad's definition was different than mine.

    • profile image

      jeanine 4 years ago

      Ann, I do find your comments strange in a way... the mental illness thing kept coming up so I get it... you think at TS have a mental illness... I done agree or disagree with that statement but I can tell you his opinions do come from how he has and is dealing with what happened to his mom... if you want to be with a man for the rest of your life, then you need to leave... because he can never be that... is mind will not let him... he so detest what he saw as men that he never wants that for himself... it's not that he wants more attention from men... so if you can deal with the fluidity of gender then stay with him... it grows into a relationship very similar to being with another woman... which after the sex is over, which is usually when we have kids... it's kind of nice to be with someone that's not always thinking of getting into your pants... good luck... he will not get better... as becoming a man... he will become better as growing out of being a teen girl... so it's really up to you and what you really want in a relationship...

    • lrc7815 profile image

      Linda Crist 4 years ago from Central Virginia

      I love your brutal honesty and than you have bared your soul on what must be very painful. Throughout my life I have tried not to judge the choices that others make for their lives. Your Dad's choices affected those who loved him and he will always pay a price for that. It is life. The one thing I learned from reading this is that you are an awesome woman who clearly understands what that means. Real woman don't have to pretend anything. It's just who they are, all the way to their core. I applaud you. It's a beautiful thing to be a woman and know who you re.

    • Elderberry Arts profile image

      Claire 4 years ago from Surrey, Uk

      Thank you for sharing your experiences. It is refreshing to have someone talk so openly. Voted up and shared

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      In response to your last post I think for a lot of transgendered people in their lives there is a lack of positive modeling for the gender they are.. In my husbands case there was an absent drug addicted father. He also saw female sexuality used to make life easier and get attention. In my husbands case it was his mother who had to turn to escorting to support him and his sister. Many of her dates would take her to a hotel and book a room nearby for the children so my husband would have to sit there in the hotel while his mother was being ravaged my strange men. I cannot even imagine.

      Also in society today how many positive attainable role models are there for men? On tv, men are either really wealthy and successful, ( which can be an image that is kind of unattainable for a lot of men). Or he's the Larry the cable guy type, or the clueless semi loser office rat nerd. Wealthy and arrogant, or working class and somewhat dim.

      Just go into a store and see the floor space dedicated to men's vs women's products.

      Women have larger and more varied choices in clothes and products that it is acceptable for us to shop for and be excited about. Women get attention for their bodies and what they wear in ways that men do not. Maybe some men want to be looked at rather than just doing the looking. But when men show off their bodies in this way it's deemed strange unless he completely ripped like a body builder or something. A woman can be out of shape but if she has one nice feature, be it breasts, or legs or what have you, its more socially acceptable for her to strategically reveal it in order to get positive social attention than a man.

      Men's fashion trends don't even allow for that kind of thing. Especially in the US where a man can't wear a speedo to the beach regardless of what type of shape he's in without people thinking he may be gay or European.

      Meanwhile, women's bathing suits are allowably as tiny as possible as long as a woman has the bod for it. People may think she's slutty for wearing a tiny bathing suit but if she's got the body they'll think positively of her for being in shape.

      So maybe a lot of men want attention like women have attention, but our society doesn't allow outlets for it. I can't help but think of the Real Housewives series on Bravo. Those women are known for being showy, and dressing well, and their husbands are relegated to the backgrounds. When any of their husbands tries to get more camera time they're often ridiculed as wanting to be one of the housewives. Maybe it's not a bad thing that men want as much attention as women. They just don't have socially acceptable outlets to be as flashy as women.

      Women's sexuality holds a lot of power, and maybe for some men that seems more of a attainable type of power that they can have for themselves. Especially if they feel powerless in other areas of their lives.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Sorry about all of the grammatical/ punctuation mistakes. I think I ran out of time to edit.

    • profile image

      AnnStacy 4 years ago

      Izettl,

      I thank you so much for posting your story.

      I am currently married to a transgendered person, a man, who is taking female hormones and cross dressing. We have no children. I did not know any of this when we married. We have been married for 3 years.

      After a lot of tears, embarrassment, and a lot of difficult situations during our marriage I'm glad I found your hub.

      Considering your situation your father sounds crazy. And I believe despite the protestations in the LGBT community, that people like your father and my husband do have a mental illness. This of course, can be, and is debated. Along with what is believed to be the proper and correct responses and feelings towards the outward expressions of our family members' mental illness.

      After reading your hub, and giving it more thought based on the perspective of yours that I can add to my own, is that these people are mentally ill. And somehow, by boiling it down to that simple, in order to explain why they do the things they do and have done is currently giving me a small measure of peace.

      My husband is not vindictive or mean, but he is selfish and prioritizes dressing up and applying makeup and taking hormones over his family and the social and family planning/ familial responsibility effects it has on us.

      He hugs me, and falls asleep on me sometimes and I feel like I'm holding and comforting my teenage child instead of my husband. When I ask him if he is wearing a new dress, he blushes and poses coquettishly like a young girl. He's had a rough upbringing. And I'm sure that in that upbringing lies most of the cause. My husband does not act like an adult.

      He goes to work and does well at his job. He dresses like a man there. He seeks out younger friends. People who are troubled. He does not want the responsibility of a having a child. After reading your hub I'm 95 percent certain that pushing for and having one would not be a good idea because of what you've had to go through. Not because you sound anything unlike a fantastic person, mature, caring, and whole.

      You've been dealing with this longer than I have and in a more intimate way. So I say, GOD BLESS YOU. I think that these people do have mental illness. We are all people before gender. And I'd like to think that our self worth and comfort could be in evidence no matter what bio gender we are, in whatever body we are in, despite what clothes and makeup we may or may not wear, and not have to rely on self mutilation to feel at peace with ourselves.

      If anxiety is a problem, maybe the anxiety should be treated. My husband says that testosterone makes him feel crazy. I don't doubt that the female hormones make him feel calmer. But when he talks about getting a sex change that's when I feel like the LGBT medical community is doing him a major disservice.

      I don't know if I will stay with him. At this time, it's not looking good. He is a good person, and I feel bad thinking that I would leave my husband because he has a mental illness. It's a life still in progress. But I thank you so much for posting your hub and experiences. Thank you and Bless You so much.. And congratulations on your beautiful children.

    • izettl profile image
      Author

      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Mary~ yes I remember you. I think that is a great quote from the public health site. I bottled it up with my dad because I did not want to hurt her feelings so I was upset on the inside and I wanted to give a voice to it. I write with honesty because my therapy began a few years ago when I wrote my first on this topic. When I tried to look up this topic in the internet I only came up with trans being exploited or sexualized. So I wanted to give a voice to family members and put actual info out there instead of the garbage that was out there. Now a few years later you will find better info out there- I'm certainly not the only one talking about, but years ago it felt like I was.

      I think it's ok to have conversations about this...not that trans are not accepted as a whole group of people. I think people will come around to it..and are. It was just so personal for me and I had no one to talk to until I wrote about it.

      i am sorry for our previous words to each other but I think it's ok that we all got to talk it over...even disagree...and now we're here on a positive note. Thank you for coming back and letting us know how you are.

    • profile image

      Mary 4 years ago

      Hi Izetti , i read your hub last year and i wrote a comment , i was not very polite and very respectful. Please take in consideration that i did not born in north america and English is not my native language . the reason i was reading these kind of hubs who talk about transsexuals is to understand how people in north america feel or think about transsexuals , and i had been shocked by your hub , i felt that i chose a bad place to immigrate to . but now since i understand more your feelings , for you this hub is your way of expressing your feelings ( and i am sorry if i did not understood that , because where i came from we do not express our feelings in front of every one , i do not say it is wrong but just i did not understood it ) . i was reading in a public health site and i found these 2 lines : "Acknowledge that your parents and siblings will go through their own “coming out” process. At first they might be angry and upset and might even make hurtful or spiteful comments. These might be hard for you to hear, but it’s better for them to say their feelings out loud than to keep them bottled up."

      now i understand moor your feelings and please accept my apologize for the comment i wrote before.