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My Father, The Transsexual

Updated on May 16, 2016

Heads up...

This was written several years ago, but began an ongoing discussion I'll never forget (just check out the comment section if you don't believe me).

Those who've been affected by a transgender person/loved one in their lives also get an opinion. The experience is theirs as you will see reflected in this, that transgenders aren't the only ones with a say in this matter. Others need to be heard...

Possible Signs?

My parents were married 18 years. Several of those years my mom was a die-hard housewife to the core, even when it meant accepting my father's cross-dressing. She was a traditional woman in that, 'once you marry, you marry for life'. Our life wasn't traditional though.

I was young enough to think it was just a game when my father played 'dress-up'. As a child you look to your parents to define "normal" and if my mom seemed OK about it, then it had to be OK. But in fact I had a deep down feeling it wasn't OK.

I began to associate my father's dressing with the bad times in our lives. After all, he dressed and inhabited a female persona when stress was running high- whether it was money issues, work stress, when he was upset with my mom. It was a coping mechanism.

Besides the point: At age 5 it wasn't hard to put all this together and that 5yr old me had it figured out better than our society today. Blind inclusion without really doing the research...or at times ignoring the research and even common sense.

Growing up with my transvestite/transgender father was still confusing though. For those of you who remember the movie, 'Tootsie'- popular Dustin Hoffman Movie where he dresses as a woman... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084805/ well, I saw this as a kid and it definitely added to my delusion that it was all fun and games for men to dress up as women.

But the reality was slightly off. Many evenings my dad would sit around the house in frilly stuff and our home life would carry on as casual and usual as the rest of America's.

It was a dark secret. It's odd to me that the one person who really needs help in a family, is who everyone tries to "protect". Lies are built around them to protect them when they just need help. The entire family ends up enabling them- this applies to anorexics, alcoholics, addicts...you name it.

And now our society is hell-bent on normalizing them before getting them help. Look, I lived this lie for most of my formative years. It's not "normal". It's also not shameful- but the person does need some help and the current answer is hormones and surgery. Just like every condition is treated in our medical system with surgery or medication. They simply have no answers...and are not moving any closer to having any by passing it as normal.

"Normal" doesn't take over the family life as an addict's antics would too. It's an obsession. Everybody bends over backwards to make everything appear "normal". When society tries to normalize this, they become the enabler.

Tell me what the difference is between a gambler who gambles away the family's money, and a man who spends all the money on women's clothes to help him feel more like a woman yet interestingly they need more and more clothes to make them feel that way because the "feeling" doesn't last long.

I didn't know the definition of transvestite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestite until after my parents' divorce (due to my dad cheating on my mom)- I was about 10. That's when I remember overhearing my mom explaining to her closest friends and family about my dad's 'condition', but she didn't directly talk to me about it until I was an adult.

Transvestism seemed harmless enough in my mind. I accepted it. I look back now and I wasn't really OK with the cross-dressing, but I accepted it- not much choice when it's your own father. Sometimes I even fooled myself into thinking my father didn't continue to dress-up after the divorce, because I never saw him do it after that, but then I remember his locked closet door whenever I visited him as a teen. I remember having no college funds even though my dad made good money. I remember seeing a Gucci bag lying around...

My teen years were uncomfortable enough without my father going shopping with me and trying to convince me to dress up more, as in shorter skirts, more make-up, and pink stuff. Yeah, I know what you're thinking 'I wish my father would have bought me those clothes and encouraged wearing make-up'- well it wasn't great. I decided early on that clothes do not make the woman.

My dad was trying to be a woman. He wasn't a woman- no matter his thoughts, his gender identity, it just was like watching a poor actor.

I have never, and still don't, find a need to prove my femininity. I think I am a woman in t-shirt and jeans and casual make-up. Yes, I do dress up, but I don't feel anymore feminine than I do in my bathrobe or a cocktail dress. I realize now that my father couldn't comprehend someone who was comfortable in their own skin. He dressed up to prove something and I didn't have anything to prove. Needless to say, we saw things very differently.

Not So Pretty

As I grew-up, I learned to fine-tune my very mature adult ability to keep big secrets and sweep them under the rug. Transgender may be the up and coming new category for acceptance but if you've lived with a transgender there's more to it than simply dressing up or simply one gender wanting to be the other- there's elements of obsession and preoccupation with looks that could rival those of a narcissist.

I began studying psychology because, if anyone had a right to be curious, it was I who wanted to know what makes people do the things they do. Also, I still wanted to know why my father needed to dress up. At the time there wasn't a lot of quality media, mostly virtual vomit on the Internet, concerning transvestites- graphic images and distasteful words I could have gone my entire life, and the next, without seeing- this was 20 years ago.

Years of immersing myself in psychology, gave me the ability to not quite understand, but instead be forgiving and lenient in the ways of humans. All that psychobabble was easy to practice and believe, but it only amounted to a heap of crap the day I found out my dad had sex reassignment surgery. It's easy for the rest of society to say 'I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect me'.

The only thing I understood in that moment was a bottle of tequila. Yes, nearly a bottle for someone like me who didn't drink besides special occasions. I wasn't sure what kind of occasion this was, but tequila seemed appropriate.

Let me back up just a bit: In 2001, before the big news, my father retired from a well-known and respected position in my hometown. He moved south and that was the last I heard from him for two years. Late 2003 he explained over an email that he went to Bangkok, Thailand to get sex reassignment surgery. He not only had the genitals done, but breast implants as well. Sadly, I probably would have been OK with the genitals only, but breast implants? Too visibly noticeable I guess.

I finally had to deal with this. It's like it just blew up in my face all in one day. I had to face my new father- he/she changed his name too. He was simply waiting all those years until he retired to get surgery and all those years I was hoping his dressing impulses would decline with age.

In the awkward moments of me asking him questions, he seemed to answer in a harsh tone as if I had no right to ask. I had so many questions, but I knew my dad's tolerance was low for him being questioned about anything. I realized, for the first time, I never questioned my dad even about other things. It was time I did.

Should I be supportive and cover up my true emotions and thoughts? Should I be openly angry and disappointed and be my true self since he was being his "true self"- why can't I? There's no middle ground- the trans is looking for your full acceptance or a relationship is off the table. It's was still his number one priority.

I was initially supportive and thought I was being unselfish, a good daughter, by hiding my true feelings. In reality, my first response to this news, after the purchasing and heavy drinking of tequila, was pure selfishness:

How could he do this to me? My future kids (this was before my husband and daughter were in the picture), would be without their grandfather. Did this make me more of a woman or less? I couldn't even introduce my future husband to my "father". My father also legally changed his full name so what did my last name represent now? I felt orphaned. Would he want me in his life because I was literally a reminder he was a man? Who could I talk to about this? Is it shameful and taboo or somewhat more acceptable nowadays? Which friends and family do I share this or not share this with?

It seemed I was the only one who had to deal with this. No one openly talks about this stuff unless it's part of a political agenda. Do they realize this is real life for some of us? My mom moved on and found her a real man- second husband. I had no siblings or ever knew anyone who went through this. I had joked with all my friends when watching Jerry Springer shows of this subject matter- now it wasn't a joke! I hadn't even seen him in person, what would I do- laugh, cry, run? Where was my daddy who taught me to swim and ride a bike and play cards?

New and Improved?

The day I met my new father was sickening. Your parents are the people you think you know best and when that rug is pulled from underneath you, there are doubts about yourself that inevitably sneak up too. If you don't believe there is a difference in the way they are before surgery or transitioning, you're dead wrong.

They aren't the same person as before. It's truly an idenitity disorder and even an element of multiple personalities.

My dad greeted me with saying "Hi babe". I'm not sure if I said anything, only listened to a new voice and, well, a new person. I tried not to stare or laugh, but only because I exasperatingly hung onto the hope this was all a joke or a nightmare. That was the day I grieved the loss of my father, but with a desensitizing lack of emotion.

If transsexuals describe their need to change as something they "have/had to do" then why are there so many insecurities after the fact? They spend their entire lives doing things to convince themselves they are this "new" person after their surgeries. I've seen how it doesn't work.

All of a sudden I didn't know how to talk to my dad without offending him. And sometimes I did, by accident but shouldn't I be offended, oh I don't know, because I was lied to for so long. It's not right to lead a child on and manipulate society's leniance on gender roles in their favor.

It's been 15 years since I have known my dad as a transsexual, as a woman.

Personally I don't accept the statements, "I was born this way" or "I've been this way as long as I can remember". You are born with a sex, not a gender. Gender is what you think about yourself. What you think about yourself is your exposure to your environment.

My father continued to be very selfish after his sex reassignment. He had finally done the ultimate thing for himself and everything since has been the same way. He got used to life being on his terms- ya know, like the addict in the family that everyone tries to pass as completely normal. The world is falling apart for those around them as they go traipsing around on the jackets people lay down for them over the puddles.

I guess all I was hoping from him was... 'how does this make you feel?' or 'I can understand you're troubled and confused'. 'Do want to talk about it'? He had years to get used to himself as a woman, I had a few days, from getting the news to seeing him. There's a big difference between a dresser (transvestite) to a transsexual (the whole body make-over).

I am the incurable student of life. There is something to be learned from everything- so what did I learn through this experience? I know how it feels to be blindsided, so if I have any major transitions going on in my life, I make sure it's not a surprise to those close to me. Love is letting people in. Being open and honest, besides protecting yourself first.

For people who are waiting to unveil a big surprise to family and/or friends, don't wait. In fact, you should have never waited one minute. It's best to talk things over before it becomes big news. Waiting only makes it easier for yourself, not those you care about. It's your decision, but take others into account, and accept initial emotions even if it's anger or something unpleasant. Take responsibility for the fact that what you do effects others. Unveiling a secret or big news is not just about you.

UPDATE

I want to thank all the people who wrote into me, the emails, etc. You made me realize (after writing this) that I wasn't crazy for all these thoughts. Thank you for making it easier to open up. This was a shot in the dark, but the personal emails of those who know the reality have made it worth it.

I have a relationship with my father (on his terms). My concern in the last few years has been directed on our children in society, what they won't understand about the current transgender agenda. I'm not against trans. I am against them not receiving the help they need. I see my dad still struggle with identity issues and a lingering unhappiness.

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      Joaniebnh 14 months ago

      No! No! No! The only reason transgender even exists is because of the simple belief, that men shall not possess any amount of femininity. Because in being feminine they are seen as weak! Every woman alive should be appalled at the notion! Feminine does not equal weak. Haven't we been telling our girls that for the last forty years?!

      Of course we have, and we have also been promoting "cross gender/dressing" on them to eliviate the oppression women have had to deal with for centuries. Simply saying. We have recognized that women can not be stereotyped into a gender conformity. And thus we need to recognize that men should not be either. Unless you are willing to say women are less then men, you can not say that a feminine man or female expressive man is less then a man. There are tons of butch women that bank on being strong, independent and contrary to the gender normative. So is, are there many men who do not conform to the stereotypical gender normative for men. Just as there are tom boys there are feminine expressive boys. Who turn into feminine gender expressive men. The only problem is the social denial of a fact! And it's intolerance towards that which is not patriarchal. I am transgender, I was open and honest with my two sons about it, they saw it in thier everyday life. They are both good fathers, husbands and human beings. The idea that a person must adhere to a gender stereotype is archaic. Even if that stereotype is of the masculine! It's time we recognized that we are all a gender gradation. We will benifit from it far more then we have benifit idea from the binary!

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 2 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Thank you peachpurple.

    • peachpurple profile image

      peachy 2 years ago from Home Sweet Home

      you had been through a very touch patch but you were strong

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      so I don't think any woman would ever hurt her child on purpose... but I think almost every man on earth would do that, because of his own life for one, but also, because of his inability to actually know what a real woman feels... each of us say... well I've always thought and felt I was a woman inside... really... tell me how that feels... what we really should be saying is... I don't feel like a man inside... or I don't feel comfortable inside... if one has never been a woman and known what it was like to be ridiculed at the age of 12 or 13... then one can't really say I feel like a woman inside... now... do I feel totally uncomfortable being who I am right now... I can believe that... or I am totally uncomfortable being what society expects me to be because I'm a man... I can understand that... but... I have always felt like a woman inside... obviously not... because a woman would never hurt her children... I know many men who have hurt their children and many who would do it unintentionally... but even the unintentional hurt usually come from a man and not the mother... or the woman...

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      Hi Sara, I am in such agreement with what you have said... I believe for a woman to pass as a gender variant or as a genetic woman is so important in every woman's life... late transition is such a debilitating thing for the family... I just couldn't do it to my children... or lets say I have been successful thus far in avoiding full transition... and I say this because it is a constant battle each day for me...my children know but they are also very thankful that I have considered them in my decision... and for every reason that matters in my life... that thankfulness in them and respect for what I am willing to to for and with them is very important and very much appreciated from me to them... I have taken the pain and suffering that has continued to follow me because I haven't transitioned fully... and tried to use it to my advantage... and now after years of suffering I am sure I am further along than I would have been because I have been able to associate my suffering to that of a real woman... I guess where there's a will there's always a way...for the one thing that I have noticed about genetic woman is... most will suffer even willingly for their children... and I haven't met one genetic female that have actually hurt their children on purpose... I'm not saying that every transsexual willingly hurts their children but what I am saying is... I'm not willing to hurt my own children after reading how wounded this child( Izettl) has expressed in her hubs... and as much as I want to be a woman fully in body as well as in my soul... I am not willing to hurt my children nor my wife for my own pleasure or my own person... Sara I think that you considered that you need to look the part before taking the final step is so important and very mature... in your out look at what it takes to live as a woman in this world... for me to be in help groups for years and ask the same question..."what will your family(wife and children) think about you changing.... and then here the same answer over and over..."well they'll have to get used to it or they'll have to accept it"... it just to much for me some times... the reason it is to much for me is... in all my life living here on earth... the only people I've ever heard say something like that and not really care how long it took for the persons they were discussing to accepted their opinion.... have only been men... so I am suspect of any woman who looks at their children and says... I will hurt them but then they will get over it... because they have no choice... I don't know any woman on earth that would do that to her children... and I think it's because children to genetic woman are human beings that are flesh of their flesh and bone of their bone, so they know if they hurt their children, they are hurting themselves... the only people on earth that don't know this to be a fact of life and of living... are men or males... and I think that is because they didn't carry the children nor have they sacrificed for that child to live... every genetic woman knows because she has given of her very life for these children to live... again I am not judging anyone else... I'm simply saying I can't do it... knowing that they are my children and I have taught them to have faith, have courage, have creative ways about them that will help them cope in life... my conscience mind or my un-conscience mind will not allow it... for a woman is a completed woman in my mind if she can have a child... and if you can't have a child... the next best thing is to be sure to whole a complete awareness than you would literally die for this child...

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 3 years ago

      I do believe that the issue with late in life transition is that there is very little variance like Izettl just mentioned. Look at all the true transsexuals (not crossdressers or drag queens) and you see very few that "pass" without looking literally like a guy in a dress. That was one of my biggest fears for two primary reasons, one being that I didn't want my child to be tormented and ridiculed because of how I look and knowing the difficult aspects of transitioning I didn't want to live the rest of my life being an outcast from society because I didn't fit within the social norm. There are social standards and though they are broadening for the Transgender community, learned personal beliefs and values take time to adjust even in this constantly changing world . Another unfortunate reality of transitioning late in life is that in most cases it can destroy families hurting those involved. There are those extenuating circumstances that everything works out fine but those are the Atypical cases amongst many that have not fared so well. I think every day about how the positive and negative aspects will effect those around me including myself.

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      I am sure they both exist in your dad because he wore a man's suit for so long...I think we are all in agreement that the earlier one transitions the better for the person and actually for the other folks as well... late transition is an animal unto it's own... in your case, many transsexuals will say... she needs to be thankful her father didn't transition early or she wouldn't have been born... which is true... but I believe once there is a child in the pic, all bets are off on any kind of normalcy trans and non trans alike...each situation becomes unique unto itself...I think at that time communication on a massive scale must take place... otherwise her is hurt and confusion, not only in the transitioner but also in her/his family... as our community becomes stronger and more aware of this... we will grow... and not just as we have grown but will fan out into a bigger and stronger community with a diversity that I think will surprise everyone... no longer will the medical community be pushing us all down one port or one way... there will be millions if not billions of unique individuals that run the gammit of ever beautiful and wonderful creature that we were born to be... no longer out cast but we will take our place of prominence in history once again....

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sara and Jeanine,

      I think it's apparent in society that variant anything is not acceptable to many. In other words society's reaction is proof there is variance. Many people are confused and of course that reaction entails avoidance or sometimes bully behavior. If there was a few ways to be then society would be fine, but since each transgender may be different that becomes a whole other story. For years my dad was a crossdresser....and there are simply transvestites and then there are transgender or who want to transition. I see the variance clearly in my dad who seems to cling onto many male traits but also feminine as well.Of course I ask myself how much of that is because he waited so long to transition, hence my own confusion about it.

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Sorry about the typos... if you can't read it, ask and I'll try and correct as we go...

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Sara... I love that ... and I am sure all of us are telling every doctor on earth how it feels... God knows you have and the info I have found out about my own gift is what I have told them about... I have had about 6 therapist, so I have obviously not had a good relationship with any of them or I have had a complete relationship with all of them...lol... not trying to be funny... just trying to see if there is another position in our community besides all of us doing the same thing... that's what irks me a little... there is only one solutions to this gift, challenge, life, whatever we call it.... really.. there is no plumber trans or steer riding cowgirls... or just plain house wives... there are no ordinary girls... who just decided that the clothes were not al there were cracked up to be and a jj is what I have to have in order to feel completely feminine.... what if there are gender variants like me... that fell in love so deeply with the family she has, that she could never even consider hurting them in that way.... and as cowardly as that may appear to some of us, it certainly it very present in my life... and I can't even consider it... I appreciate you Sara... you are an amazing person for sharing and at least talking some of this through... I've gotten to know Izettl and she is so sincere as a person and just an absolutely wonder as a mom and wife to a great man... so I think that's what we should all discuss... not how mad this makes us ... if someone is not considerate but what if we really are just at the cusp of a new type of gender.. and we are to look past being just women alone but a whole community that is brave enough to tell others who we are... like steven tyler... has done... we all know he is gender variant but he and Mick Jagger, Bowie and many others had chosen another way... I'm wondering if there is a way to invite everyone to the party...lol... sorry to put it that way, but think about it.... one of the greatest things that every happened to Christianity, was Paul the Aspostle, change the game when he invited everyone to be save and said.. Christ is your circumcision.... he instantly changed the face of Christianity by making it easier to be saved.... what if there is a seam right here where there are millions of us but not millions that see full transition as the answer... where we we really were a sect of men... that had these powers... to agree with both the male and female spirit... there would only have to be one small change in our emotional evolution... that one step might be... in the very near future .... that the brain of a fully gender variant woman living in a man's body....might skip over the physical aspect and go into living full time as a very motherhood based emotional and mental picture of how a woman really might live her life... not choosing to be like the rest, but choosing the gender outlaw place... but more sophisticated and much more feminine in attitude, instead of the physical.... just a thought... but a real one... and here's why I think we have to enroll them all... we will never have the power to conduct change on a large scale positive scale for until, we are more inclusive... in our community... right now it seem every girl for herself... or every guy for himself... just thinking to the next page... what if... what now... what's next... and how do we move this along to have more rights for all of us...

    • Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

      Sara-NtheMiddle 3 years ago from United States

      I first want to start by saying that none of my doctors , therapist , or anyone else has told me how they expect me to be pertaining to the issue of being transgender . It has actually been quite the opposite, they've actually asked me what I am seeing them for and what do I expect and they have tried to help me within their capabilities . I have in my own mind known how I feel and who I should be and I went to a therapist because the feelings of how I was raised and who I felt I was, conflicted and I needed to dwell deeper into the root of my issues so I could make a more informed decision pertaining to my future.... I have more thoughts that I want to add but have to go for now.

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      I keep thinking we are at the beginning of some great understanding for some reason... something that will fall into place and make all this confusion seem to make sense... I keep waiting for the other shoe to fall... and I seem certain that it will... there has to be some method to this madness... I mean think about it... have any of us, had any other treatment suggestions other than the therapist and doctors saying we should change our bodies...to fit our minds... I haven't heard of one other idea... have any of you... seems strange that we wouldn't hear of something, even if it were some crazy idea... I haven't heard one doctor suggest anything else... to me that's like women having mastectomies for years and then we realized that they could do a lumpectomy... for most of those procedures... or like the medical community before penecillian was invented... what they were doing for people... they were sure was the right thing... although more than half of the patients died probably because of no sterilization of the tools they were using to do the operations... I feel we are at that place for some reason... like we all know cancer would be cured if it were men getting it everyday... because they would have put more money in it... this feels like they haven't spent the dollar on our gift because not many have it, or that they don't care because we are a sub culture to them... something is wrong but I can't put my finger on it... lol...anyhoo... let me know what you girls and guys are thinking...

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      I'm sure you guys are right, about so many different degrees of gender variance in our community... but my question about being a good mother, wife and friend to our children is real as well... and I only say that in deepest respect for the feelings that we all have of being in the wrong body... so if we really are women.... shouldn't we be more mature in our handling of our most precious assets on earth... our children... and the woman who gave them to us.. after all we couldn't have them ourselves... and this woman not only loved us in our weirdness but loved us enough that she gave birth to our love....my take on transition is, we all get so caught up in changing our own bodies that we forget that our bodies have grown and produced children and those children are part of our own flesh, but because we did not carry them and can not say, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, we do not possess the feelings or the compassionate side of the very women we profess to be... In that so many transitioning females leave their children and their childrens feelings out of the equation is almost to much for me.... as a woman.... to take. How many times have we heard, from our therapist, our groups, and even from our own mouths say..." well they'll just have to accept me for who I am"... then we take those that we have loved the most and who have really loved us the most of anyone we know and force that part of ourselves on them.... finally telling them that they have to tell themselves to accept something that is a very bitter pill for most of our families...... I'm speaking of this part of transition because to me after having faced this all of my life, I don't feel that one thing, the forcing them to accept us as something they have never known in us, is very feminine or feminine at all, in behavior.... it feels very masculine to me... a forcing of the issue so to speak... a total self centeredness that I do not see in the genetic female community... therefore I am suspect of how many of us, have thought this through...as women.... as the one who says... oh I feel like a woman inside.... really.... really do you.... and if you do... tell me what every woman on earth has done, when it comes to making a choice for her children or herself... history shows the opposite behavior for genetic female behavior and trans female behavior... the genetic community of females tend to do anything and everything to keep their children from harm, whether that be from physical trauma or emotional trauma. The trans female community does just the opposite when it comes to emotional and mental trauma. And yes I know that's what the living the true life test is about... however... the true life living as a female... only happens after we have hurt our families and destroyed what we had built with them up until we say..."I just couldn't stand it any more... I had to tell someone... I just had to transition"...so is it set up that way, where there is no turning back, or that we have no where to turn... or is it that we are at the beginning of this particular place in transsexual history and we have overlooked how transition should really be handled... I believe in the future, transsexuals or gender variants like ourselves with handle transition differently... and I'm only talking about late transitioners... those with children... we are handling it very poorly I believe... we are hurting those we professed to love and hurting tose who have loved us.....

      Sara... I do understand that need to look female... we all have it.. when you say... " I can't seem to understand what drives me to have to be as much of a woman as I can physically be"... we all have that... but that is what I am questioning really... or we getting bad advice from the medical community... or are we getting advice that should be addressed in a second stage of transition... like I feel there is a step missing when it comes to how to deal properly with our families... again, I appreciate you all discussing this and you am so thankful for the info that each of us have in dealing with our gift... our curse... whichever way you see it... it is truly both and as both, it is a gift... to me... as one or the other, it is a curse in my own life, because of what I would have to put my family through... so I know you all understand my pain there... here's my question... are we actually serving ourselves well, in the way we are dealing with our families... if you look at our history, we were advisers and marriage counselors, throughout history in over 132 tribes world wide... this is a history before Christ and after... so if we know or knew who to advise others and help them... how are we not doing the same for ourselves... what it appears to be, is that we have to have those jeans from the ladies dept to help convince ourselves, not others... and if that happens to be true, which it's only a hypothesis, then their is something missing in our view of what a woman really is.... so when we say... I feel like I'm a woman inside... really... tell me what a woman feels like... if you've never been one and had the opportunity to practice being one, how does she feel... because there is evidence that we don't feel like genetic females, when it comes to hurting our children... this hub is proof of that... anyway... just thinking out loud...but if this happens to prove true, then we could be wrong about other things as well... when we say... I feel like a woman.... really... really... how does she feel...I'm not trying to incite or hurt... just want to be honest in my thoughts... and we all know why I want to be honest... because we have been dishonest with ourselves and with those we love for so long... love you girls... hope you have a wonderful day...

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 3 years ago

      You're a sweetheart Jeanine but I have to agree with Izettl that there are various degrees of gender variant and I also think that the majority of people to one degree or another are gender variant even if they don't realize it. I live my life as a woman and as little, transgender as possible. I say that because there are some things that I have to do as transgender and I have realized that there are very few differences between living as a man or living as a woman other than the way I visibly appear to myself and others. No matter how few differences there are, I can't seem to understand what drives me to have to be as much of a woman as I can physically be. I kept a security stash of the best guy clothes that I owned just in case things didn't work out and I had to go back. Just for the hell of it I put on a pair of the guy jeans and I hated how they felt and how they looked. It's very puzzling because they aren't that much different from the Aeropostale jeans that I wear now other than my jeans now are form fitting :) . People are just wired to think and feel a certain way, be genetic or through conditioning. Fortunately I don't have enough money to go see a psychiatrist because I don't think that question will ever be truly answered.

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      J,

      I believe there are various degrees of "gender variant". Some are absolutely so much woman, it's impossible to see a man there. I'm not sure how my dad would have been because in his era, boys were men. They were learning to be men about the time they were giving up the baby bottle. then he was off to fight in Vietnam. Now that he's transitioned, there is more man there than not. Perhaps for years of living as one for so long (55 yrs). Just as some women act like men and relate to men more than women, there are some trans who can relate to men as well, not just the typical female role. In fact I think a lot of us, no matter the gender, have a little of both.

      J, I know you've gone through your fair share of thoughts from counselors. Good, God they have no idea what they're talking about. Some things are beyond them and their training- I went through that training too and I'm still mystified by many things in human nature. Not terrified though. I appreciate some of the gals on here like "sara in the middle" and "Celeste" who are honest in their discussion on this topic. and of course you too Jeanine. Since I've known you, you have become real to me. Not a cover up, not pretending to be one or the other, but accepting a wonderful fate to be mighty in both. No one I know understand BOTH women and men the way you do. God not only spoke to you but blessed you. There are numerous accounts in the Bible in which God's favorites and the mighty struggled- it isn't always easy. How does that go...to one who is given much, much is expected.

      I grew up a 6' foot tall girl, I was always tall and trust me I've felt different. Not trans, but I do know the feeling of different. My mom did at least one thing right and taught me to feel special (not different). We act like being treated different is awful- I'd take being unique any day. I don't want to be like ever y woman, nor should you.

      It's also like those who hope to win the lottery and someday they do, but realize it's not all it cracked up to be. I still see my dad struggle even after the transition. And it's not really with others, it's within herself.

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      LOL... for some reason... I don't seem to be able to spell... curse.. today... damn...lol... and there are some sentences that should have the word "how" in them... my apologies for the typos...

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      I disagree, about no one knowing... about us before TV and the internet... there is a history that most of the therapist or talk shows do not speak of... we were in places of prominence for thousands of years... we were at the building of the pyramids, had a suite on Celopatras barge... look deeper and you'll find us everywhere... transsexuals are just the new Eunuchs... the rest of us have been here dealing with both sides since the dawn of man and womankind... and if you look close enough, why they held us in high esteem is that we knew a little about both genders... and that's what it is today... Sara n the middle you know I respect you dear and you deserve to be happy... but you are not a woman and neither am I... do we both have this gift and cruse... yes... but how can you be more, if you decide to take the doctors advice and be less in the body... what makes up unique is we are both... I know many things about being a woman... more than most.... and I know many things about being a man... more than most.... but that doesn't make me one or the other... what makes us unusual is we know more than the average person about the feelings of both genders... so if you practice one without the other... it makes jack or jill a very dull person compared to jack & jill living in the same body... which is what you and I ... or just me... I may be the only person in the world who believes like this... but then,,, you must look up our hidden history to know that for sure... lol... I am not making light of our gift, just speaking honestly woman to woman in spirit... here's the real question.... "How many real women do you know, that would hurt the children on purpose..... none that I know of..... and yes there are a few, but those women are usually mentally sick in some way".... I have three children and I love them as I'm sure you love yours..... the fact is I love them so much... I will kill anyone who tries to harm them... any man ... any woman... including the man's body I live in... understand?... so if you want to be selfish... then transition if you have children... this hub is about a child "Izettl" that grew up in a house where she believed her father was selfish.... so again I say... if you want to please yourself more than your partner and your children... then that is very male to me... for the true blessing and cruse of womanhood, is sacrifice... will you choose womanhood... if so choose your sacrifice... will you sacrifice for your children and partner... or will you sacrifice them instead... oh my... I do know harsh this sounds... but I'm only saying it because it is the question that will haunt you for the rest of your life unless you choose your family.... hope you find a way... I do know frustrating this blessing/cruse is.... you are more unique just the way you are... I have many friends in our community and the two women that I know without a doubt are completely females born in the wrong body, both express regret for giving up their families... because after all the hoop lah and circumstance.. after the srs and oh such good surgeons, facial and breast... they still wear the same tennis and jeans tees and comfortable clothes when they are by themselves that they wore before transition... so to them... they gave up their families for a little make up, a boob job and an innie instead of an outtie... I'm must older than you so I'm not trying to hurt you... just posing the questions... that you will have to answer ... maybe not today... but one day... these questions must be answered... Izettl is an amazingly astute young woman... ask her... she is very honest in these five years that she has been my friend... praying for all of us... I used to ask God to cure me... then I finally heard back... and as I was sure... God was whispering into my heart and in my ear... I heard... cure you from what... I think you are perfectly made... yeah... take a look and see ... because I think you are perfectly made as well... you just had someone tell you... you were not normal... "She said... but I feel so different.... and He said... different is unusual... unusual is unique..... unique is often one of a kind.... and one of kind... is priceless....." that's the way I see each of us... each TS person.. each gender variant human being... priceless in every way... don't give up... you still have friends...

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I agree about the media being a poor source of education on trans and gender variant. I remember looking it up on the Internet when I learned about my dad and everything was X rated.

      and yes, younger kids are better about a parental transition. Young kids are very flexible.

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 3 years ago from United States

      Jeanine, I think what society expects transgender people to be is the same things that it expects everything else to be and that is what the majority deems to be normal or socially acceptable. As for the issue of the gender variety, we have been around for a long time but that time has been in isolated situations so the majority of the population has only just recently been exposed to who we are, mainly since the evolution of transgender people being televised and with the explosion of internet era. People fear what they don't understand or what is perceived as not normal. Education, exposure and time will change how gender varient people are seen, the same way it changes everything. The more common place gender variance becomes the less people will have an issue with it, through tolerance, neutrality or acceptance.

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      sara 3 years ago

      Wil,

      I was in the same predicament as you are and i decided to move forward with my transition. I do think young kids are better equipped to handle a transition before they reach their teens and are under peer pressure. You must teach your kids to have an open mind.

      It sounds like you already have made up your mind to transition, but your trying to figure out the best time to do it. Once the girl is out of the bottle, it is very hard to put her back in and your finding that out now. What ever decision you make, i hope it;s the best for you and your kids.

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      Wil 3 years ago

      Izetti - thank you for your heartfelt writing! I've been scouring the internet for information related to trans parents and I must confess, there's not a lot out there. More specifically, I've been looking for writing from viewpoints such as yours; the child's.

      First off, I'm a 40 year old guy debating transition and have three very young children (3 and younger), whom I love dearly. I've been married for 16 years and love my wife to death - of course, she doesn't love this other side of me. I went to transition five years ago and we briefly separated, but we ended up getting back together and I abandoned my plans. Fast forward five years and I'm right back where I was, except with three children. I'd always been one that said if we had kids, that would be the end of it - I'd give it up for good - for the sake of the kids. Well, that didn't work out too well, because here I am again.

      I don't want to screw up my children's lives. I want to be there for them and provide for them for as long as I'm able. I know coming out and looking to transition will ultimately introduce an element of 'screwedup-ness' into their lives. My question is - is it better for me to transition while they're this young (with what will be only fleeting memories of me as I am now) or to keep things somewhat hidden and do it down the road several years?

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Oh Mary, you explained yourself very well... you write english a lot better than I write anything else... and I do know many girls that need the surgery and have had it and or happy with it... my main thought here is late transition.... and trans women who already have families... when I went through the pre- work up for what I needed to do if I were or was going to transition fully with SRS, there was absolutely nothing that helped me deal or helped my family deal with a parent that was about to change from male to female... the medical community and the therapist had one idea... they'll accept you and they have to get over their own beliefs... well in my case I had taught them their beliefs, so that was not going to work at all... here I have my children and I have taught them how and what they should believe and I did teach them not to be judgmental, I had encouraged them to be strong men and to love their wives and family above everything else on earth... and now I was going to shatter those teachings.... I just couldn't do it... so I began to search for a way I might live my life without hurting those closest to me... and although I have still hurt them in some ways, it hasn't been so drastic as if I had done away with their father figure... plus, in my journey to find what is my path, I have come to know myself and see myself much more clearly... in that I am trying to be the person I am on the inside instead of be the one that society expects me to be... in both cases really... I no longer seek to be the man they want me or expect me to be... but also I no longer seek to be the trans woman that our own community expects me to be either... I am more a blend than before... I have to constantly remind myself and my best friends remind me that behavior that I think less of or more of and always think that is a female behavior, is often male behavior as well.... so I am doing better within my own life in my growing... I do have a wonderful support system though and I realize, my family, my wife, and my dear friends are there to lend a helping hand when I am down or in so much need... I have found in my own life as a trans woman, that support is so important and I can't or couldn't live as full a life as I'm living without them.... oh Mary , I am so happy for you in that you did transition and I look forward to you posting here more often... have a great day...

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      Mary 3 years ago

      Izetti- I agree that there is no (recipe) for every one to apply and that every trans person is different .I also agree that psychology have a bad history in western societies, I did not know they treated women through menopause with lobotomy, Thanks for this information (I did not knew what lobotomy even is , i searched online for it) ,my worries are bout younger transsexuals to be denied the treatment. I do not claim that i know what is right and what is not for every trans person , i can't speak for all of them, and i do not want to make this comment concentrated about(me), i know few trans persons of my generation and not all of them want to have the surgery and they are OK with that and yes some times society may put pressure on gender variant people because people do not like neutral things. But at the end what is happiness exactly? are people who are not trans are happy? , Am i happy? i do not really know , did i need the surgery? yes. did i tried to commit suicide before? Yes . Do i feel better now? yes . Is it guarantee that i will not commit suicide? No it is not . If you accept an (external) point of view from a person who did not born or grew up in North America, you have many separations and social differences between the two genders in a shocking way and most of the pressure is on males , they suppose to act and behave or even feel in a certain way .I am not attacking you or Jeanine personally but you also have an prejudgment on how women suppose to(feel) and (react) i see it is similar to people who judge trans people on how they look .I do not know you personally but i can guess you are a good person(and for sure a very good writer) and i think your bad experience with your parent made you even better ,it made you try to see things from a different prospective and try always to question what most of people consider facts , which is good . But also most of trans people (specially transwomen who receive usually the most of the personal attack) are always worry about denial of their treatment .I do not know if i explained what i want to say or not , i am not a good writer like you or like Jeanine and my English make it even worse!

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I wanted to clarify what I said about Mary that you may not know how much society influences us in the "right" way to do things. I know you probably know what society thinks, accepts and doesn't accept. I just meant that I would think trans get in a position that they feel if they want to be accepted they've got to be one or the other- look like one or the other. Trust me, my dad now in his late 60's, looks gender neutral. I think people dislike something they can't figure out (male or female) more than if my dad dressed completely like a woman even though he/she would have still some male traits. Cause then people would know my dad is going for the female look and they don't have to guess. I've known Jeanine for years and I know that it must be difficult to be able to look like either male or female. But I wish society would bend a little so other trans could feel "normal" as a little of both, not trying to appease society's one way or the other rule. And of course I think the medical community is influenced by society's what should and shouldn't be. I've been through it in the education and professional (psychology) aspect and through it with my chronic illness (medical). I walk in the door and they tell me this is what we do for everybody. Do I look like "everybody". Is that who I am to you? I'd love to say that, but I'm just another "case" to them. And they treat it one way.

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Mary,

      I don't think medical community "forces" the surgery, I'm just saying even when I went to school for Psychology, it becomes repeated so often that common knowledge is the idea that trans "need" surgery or many will commit suicide. I do not agree with a one size fits all. Any time we prescribe one thing for happiness, and let's say that person isn't happy after the surgery, it's not a good solution to fix ALL their problems. It could be setting themselves up for something worse. The obsession with getting the surgery can cloud judgment in what the consequences may be, for those that got married or had children in a family. But that is the mainstream idea. Most trans go through the counseling process with only one thing in mind- a means to an end to just get the surgery. It's the same idea that people with body Dysmorphic disorder think of a certain trait on them and they wouldn't be happy unless they undergo surgery to fix it. Often times there's an underlying issue that needs to be dealt with.

      Body Dysmorphic disorder: Afflicted individuals think they have a defect in either one or several features of their body, which causes psychological and clinically significant distress or impairs occupational or social functioning. BDD often co-occurs with depression, anxiety, social withdrawal, and social isolation.

      To me, there are many personality disorders that resemble trans traits and that only concerns me cause there could be an underlying issue there. I know many counselors that suggest counseling for those who are gay and have had a past with molestation and sexual abuse. As a society we have gotten hung up on the notion that someone is born that way or they just shouldn't be that way. If you're not born that way then you won't be accepted to be "different". I think who cares how you got that way. If we suggest that someone was not born that way then it's not politically correct. When in fact, none of us are born with depression but it should be treated.

      So yes, my point is the medical community is treading on thin ice with one-size-fits-all in any behavioral trait.

      I am concerned for people. I have never looked at anyone with differences as different. I love differences in people I have always attracted those in my life with something different about them because I don't fi the status quo either. I don't want to. lol. I just want to be real about things and forget all of society's paralyzing poltical correctness. I want the person to be OK before and after the surgery. For trans many times it's that one thing that they truly believe will make them feel normal. Why can't they be normal either way, with or without the surgery. You have no idea Mary, or maybe you do, how much society influences what we believe to be the right way or what were supposed to do. Society has been changing for centuries. I think my lesson in this was a History of Psychology course I took. I learned that the one way to treat women going through menopause was a lobotomy. Can you believe that?!

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Oh Mary, I'm in total agreement with we should transition as young as we can... all my comments are related to this hub. My thoughts are pointed toward our responsibilities as women to our families... it is just not right to leave them after we have had them... woman up so to speak is all I'm saying... and I do believe this is a new day and the old ways will pass us by sooner I hope than later... it's the damage done by late bloomers is all I'm saying... I just couldn't hurt my family after I have loved them this long... but I understand that everyone is not like me nor dod I want them to be... what I do want is for every trans woman to have a more divers choice... I'm so happy for you that you transitioned early... we would love to hear or I know I would love to hear more of your take on how we can help more young trans girl to find there way to good doctors and therapist... again thank you for your forgiving ways... and thanks for understanding... and being a grown woman about the whole thing... I have gotten to know Izettl and she is a very nice young woman as well... and I don't really think she has any prejudice against transition or trans in general... her dad had something else as well... he never tried to tell her and she was just a little girl, so it was traumatic I'm sure... again thanks so much for coming here and sharing ... we need as much info as we can get... this is not an easy thing to do...

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      Mary 3 years ago

      Jeanine , Yes i agree with your idea and that i meant before when i said that there are new and different generations of trans now . I know trans people who do not want to have the surgery , i know some who do not want to take hormones , it depends from person to person , doctors do not (force) us to go to have the surgery ,it is not a pilgrimage or something :). because i never got married , and i never attracted to women and i started transition in my late 20th . My surgery was paid by the health insurance in Canada(thanks God) otherwise i would never be able to have the money , that is why it is important to me to defend this medical procedure :) , Again ,they do not force us to have the surgery but they pay for it if we want to have it .My brain is working let us say in (numerical way) here how i see things: kids of trans people suffers and the problem exist because trans people start to transition late because they tried for years to hid their identity , the solution for me is not to fight the idea of transitioning , on the contrary to encourage it ,then trans people will be able to start younger and we all avoid these kind of complications. The damage already happened to persons like Izetti and J but we may try to avoid it happens to new generations.

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Rocio,

      Here's what I do know...as I stated above, the person on the inside should be treated, not the outside. Most doctors do not know what to do with gender identity disorder so they treat the symptoms and not the cause. I can relate to this. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, an invisible illness. Doctors want only to treat the symptoms because they do not know the cause. I would love for them to treat me, the person as well, but all I get is various harmful medications. If you've had to go through the medical system like I have, you would know that it is deeply flawed so for them to recommend a sex change as the most popular option for all trans. I can't buy that one, I won't buy it. And you should want to know the cause. I can't say I was just born to have arthritis in my mid-30's. I won't accept that. Something else is going on and I haven't met one doctor interested in anything else besides a quick fix.

      Also Rocio, why would you find what I have to say here offensive? We don't know each other. It's like someone telling me they have regular/osteoarthritis. I know they think it's similar but Oh my god it's not even close, but I won't fault them for that. I'd love to educate them a little on the difference, but I won't attack them to any extent. I wrote on my dad and I, not your experience. If you'd like to educate me on your experience, well that's why I leave the comment section open. I never delete them because while I may not understand you, someone else could benefit from it. this hub wasn't written for you...apparently, but there are kids out there it has helped. I wrote it because I wanted to know I wasn't the only one feeling this way. If you feel you have comments that might help anyone, then please post.

      Jeanine,

      I love what you said about more diversity if there are more than one or two ways to be a trans. If more chose to be trans but live as both, benefit from it, and choose no surgery then more options would be available mainstream and tolerated too.

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      My family all know of my gift and are very respectful of me trying to consider them... no they don't run down the street yelling oh look ... I have a trans parent, but they do allow me to love them as I always have... as the woman I am inside...I am wife to my husband who is and was my wife before we found this gift, I am woman of my home... and truly I am not like many of my friends... straight gay or trans... I am an individual... I don't hate my male body, because it after all gave me my family, I don't hate my female mind because after all it has given me so much more of my family.... and maybe that's not trans at all... but what I have or what I profess and have explored with our present medical community... the six therapist I have had and two very bright endos that I love very much over this last eighteen years, have all said... I have a severe case of gender variant behavior and suggest I transition in order to be comfortable in this body or in a body, but this is the one I have so , it's this one we're talking about.... after looking at all the options and weighing the possibilities for happiness... I have decided for me... not for anyone else... that I will be happier embracing and having my family embrace me and love them as well as having them love me... I have to look at the wife/husband I married and ask... did I demand that she accept anything about me... and I realize I didn't... she just loved me and I loved her... did she accept this gift I have... yes in every way she could... did she have objections to losing part of the man or all of the man she fell in love with... yes... should I consider her feelings if I love her... awww here we are... if I love her... what am I willing to do for her... you see... deductive thinking is am amazing thing... but it's also a hang up when it comes to love... because if I really love my family and my wife/husband more than life itself... then I will put them first... over my own needs and desires... over my own wants and pleasures, over my self... now... that one thing, this one statement pisses every trans in the world off ... because it proves without a shadow of a doubt that they chose themselves instead of their family.... and hey, I do know some of us cannot live another day in this male body, so you are excluded from this bunch... but for the rest of us... we must consider... who do we love most... ourselves or our own flesh and blood... for the question for me is... if it comes to the death between my child and me... I will always take the death and let them live their life... I will fight to the death to protect them... and will kill any man who tries to hurt them... even... yes even the man I was born into... now, if we take a look at animal behavior... there is only one animal in all of the animal kingdom that generally will take the death for their cubs... and that would be... the female... a lot of males will also but the female will take the death every single time if it looks as though the cub can survive... not the male... the male will choose to leave the cub or choose himself... so although we are not animals, we do share many of their behaviors... and I guess some will say we are the human animal and I get that... all I'm saying is, the lioness in me, would not transition... and it's only me... I'm not saying that's what the trans world should do... what I am saying is... the trans world sure is touchy about any behavior that is not rigidly enforced as "this is transsexual and nothing else is"...lol...lol... not very fluid and not very feminine to me... male behavior seems locked into one way to do things... and female behavior seems to be more fluid to me... and that's only me maybe that sees it that way... but... all the posturing here on some of these comments... all the name calling doesn't really appear to be very feminine to me... and I'm just saying to me... not that I'm right and any of you are wrong... but I do know women talk about everything and they are very good at it, so I would like to practice being friends who have different opinions... I know I have friends/ girls friends and guys friends that see things completely different than I do... but we are still friends and we don't slander each other because we see things differently... we just see it as being different in our beliefs... some of the comments here sound like political statements and disagreements... maybe it's this medium or maybe it's because we are not all sitting at the same table... I wished we were all sitting having a cup of coffee really... then this might not take on such a hurtful tone... for I do know we are all hurting and we all must need something or we wouldn't be here... I can't imagine in woman trans or genetic that would just drop by to be...mean...

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      J, thanks so much for your comments... I believe the same about this hub... it's not like any other material I have read... there is nothing out there for the children of tranns parents and nothing that is really out there for trans who choose another path to deal with their angst... like I have done...it's obvious that all of us who are affected by this gift or disorder, whatever you want to call it suffer and are in pain... for me I chose to suffer in another way... most of the medical community suggest we transition and let our families suffer... I chose the suffering for myself and tried to shield my family from the suffering and pain... both are very hard to do... but what if there are more like me in the future, those of us who are affected by being trans but choose to choose another way... would that not be more diversity than less... if there is only one way to be transsexual... then I wonder about that... that seems to be massively prejudiced in concept... and those asking for acceptance seem unwilling to accept anyone else... so how does that work... is there a holy grail somewhere that says... this is trans and this is not... I thought the idea and I know the idea for myself is to be a woman and to live a life of a woman... not to be transsexual... transsexual to me is a passage way... not the destination... if my children were blind and could not see me as a man or a woman... would not how I treated them and what they thought of me be more who they saw me as than what I looked like... so many in our community seem to just go for the look... to me that's more trasvestite or crossdresser... I have heard transsexuals say for years... it's how I feel inside... it's not the dressing that making me feel like a woman... well what if the next page is... how I live and approach my life is what makes the woman and not the dressing... the plastic could be considered just dressing to those in the future who may be more mature in their emotions... and not really need the look to be women... if we really are women inside... and confident in that... would it not stand to reason that one day... we would stand up and say enough, just as women libbers did in the sixties... I think trans today is still in the dark ages... it's still the only disorder or disease in America that is self proscribed ... we tell the doctors we have it... they don't tell us... Rocio... I would like your opinion on that.. and you to mary... what if we are just the pioneers and trans morphs into something other than a physical change in the future... like homosexuals... there are all kinds ... not just effeminent males like they believed in the fifties... what if there are that many different transsexuals... I believe that way... if I had not had a family I would never have looked for another way to be myself... but because I was late to the party... I didn't think a responsible woman, who loved her family and wanted the best for her children would just go off and decide to do something to her family without considering what it would do to them... again I am just talking about later transitions... those of us without children... I see no problem in changing the body to match the insides... you must admit this is a very real thing... I noticed it after years in my help group, that there was massive pain and suffering there and almost everyone of my friends that were late transitioners all had the same thing to say... well my family will just have to accept it... they get used to it... and yet I saw massive hurt in each of my friends and massive unbelief that some of their families didn't accept them... so the hurt and pain was to much for me to take... the things they all expected to happen... didn't and it was year after year, that their families were not accepting and it damaged both the family and my friends... finally I said, are you crazy... I love my family more than my own life... I can't give up my family just to wear a dress or to have a vagina ... there is nothing in all the world that is worth giving up my family.... Rocio do you have children and if so tell me how you are doing with that and have you found success... Mary... please let me know the same... I don't want to fight here I want to learn if there are others like me or are those of us that have found a way to transition without hurting our families... that's a real question in my own life...

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Sorry Rocio, there is nothing I can tolerate form you when you attack my heartfelt written hub here. I wrote this from my own feelings. You are certainly allowed yours as I will not pretend I know what you go through. I will listen, but not berate you, deny you unless you do this first. I have no toleration for people who walk around with a chip on their shoulder. You said before that you did not know the whole story because I did not write it all. So based on not knowing the whole story, and assuming the whole story was written here in a few paragraphs, you decided to attack someone? That just proves to me you had that chip on your shoulder before you read the second line of this article.

      I saw nothing in my dad that resembled a female so why wouldn't I doubt some trans. I've had personal experience with it. have you had personal experience with being a parent who transitioned. Is it worth it to give up your family. I accepted my dad, it was him who has that chip on his shoulder, never sharing any of it with me because he took defense just like you.

      I supoose this hub was not meant for you as it offends you so much, but please do not deny the fact that it does speak to others, it does have "it's place" as "smoke and mirrors" stated.

      I just see a missing need Rocio, in trans. I see my dad no happier as a woman. I want trans, and anybody struggling with identity or depression or anything else, to be treated as a person, not as a woman or man or disabled or color...just the person. I think one-size-fits-all treatment for trans does not address the person. Changing the outside does not change the inside. You say it is matching the outside to the inside. I just don't see that because so many trans struggle on the inside too. So if they struggle on the inside, no outside will matter, no matter what gender it is. I want that to be treated...the person. I don't think we should just accept this as the only way to treat an individual with gender identity issues. Aren't we all fooled into thinking our problems would be fixed if we had more money. Studies state 3 months after winning the lottery, people are worse off than before. Let's look beyond gender and see the person, treat the person. All of humankind are susceptible to thinking, if only (fill in the blank...I was prettier, richer, healthier) I would be happy. This is never true! It is short-lived. I watched my dad go through about a year of bliss and euphoria after his change then life went back to normal.

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      smoke and mirrors 3 years ago

      To the above writers,

      I come to this site often... And I often wish that I had discovered izettl's site earlier. I am the eldest of three children left behind by a transitioning parent. A parent I loved dearly, a loss that all these years later I still struggle to deal with. What I have reflected on since coming to this site, on more than one occasion, is that the children and families of transiting parents more than likely do require a space (free from the judgement of others) where they can express their grief, loss and sadness. Perhaps at times to even celebrate the parent they loved and cherished so much.

      I would argue that any person... Transgender or not. That would come into this forum and argue that in some way their argument is the moral high ground is misguided. There is no high ground here. Just an experiencing. As a male adult of almost 35 I have found a community here that I can relate to, a shared experience that is unique to those of my friends and acquaintances.

      To the angry people... You're angry... Hurt... My parent experienced that... It used to break my heart hearing her stories. But you know something? She never listened to my hurt... Not a single time. I don't begrudge her for that... Her life is challenging. However my needs... As a son... We're left hanging...

      There are many sites to support transitioning people and the awareness and support for transitioning people is growing. That said I don't for one second presume the community is safe from prejudice... It isn't. However I challenge all of those that read this hub to find another site, web page, book, text, article, paper, documentary... That attempts to explore the complex needs of the children in these family units. Anything at all that is remotely similar to this site... This site where the main focus, the main point, is to explore the shared experience of the family. A family trying to come to a new understandings about finding a place from where they can learn to accept, cherish and understand the new family member.

      I always think to myself... "When I write these words... What is my intention?"

      Tolerance is one of the keys. Acceptance a possibility. To the above posters... Ask yourself why you post in a forum where so many people have expressed their hurt. What outcome is it that you are after? What do you know that we don't that you feel will create better literature on a subject so relatively new and unexplored?

      Izettl I praise your continued following of this hub, years after you originally started you still continue to monitor and offer words of support to so many who are really just searching for new truths. I benefit just by being allowed to read your words and the words of others. A healthy exchange of hurt and fear and how to look objectively at complex problems. And having read the posts from other family members since I discovered this hub has demonstrated to me more than enough that this hub has its place.

      Safe travels to all of you.

      J

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      oh Mary, I don't know why I thought those things were you... they were Rocios comments I was making and to be truthful... I wanted to include you or at least someone else where it didn't feel like I was ganging up on her... sne seems awful hurt by what we were saying so I was trying to soften the blow, please forgive me... but I know you have been coming here for a while and I was hopeful that you might strike up a conversation with Rocio... this site has done so much for me... I don't want anybody to think we are trying to be hurtful... please forgive me... I read your comment about your male name and thought you were being aggressive... please forgive me for assuming anything... you are welcome here just as Rocio is and anyone else that wants to express themselves... I have gotten to know Izettl and she is a wonderful young woman, who had to face some nasty things from her father... so again forgive me dear...

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      Mary 3 years ago

      Jeanine- Where is exactly the aggression part in my comments ? and where is exactly the part i attacked you personally or Izetti? And where is the part that i said that i consider myself a woman more than women or that i know about being a woman more than women ? . I am asking because i want to learn .

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      jeanine 3 years ago

      Rocio and Mary... I am very sorry if you took offense... but your aggression proves the point ... if we do not or if I do not agree with your opinion I'm some kind of bad person... that behavior is so male in itself that I have doubts... hey if you are a woman... then great... I'm just saying I don't have to believe like you just as you don't have to believe as I do... I like this hub and did not know Izettl before I read it... I like it because it gives an opinion of a child of a transwoman... there are thousands of opinions that agree with you but one like this that I have found... the reason I know there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands is because I have been looking for any other opinion.... one thing I did learn early on is if everyone is in agreement ... something is usually wrong... does it not bother either of you that the medical community has only one solution to our situation... again if I was to harsh on either of you... please forgive me... and Mary the reason you keep coming back is... deep inside you know that I am right in that there were times in our history we were held up high above all advisors... whats the deal with that... there was no operations to make us look more like the women we are... there were no people calling us names... where is that history... why are we not talking about two spirited people... why are you and I expected to be more if they take part of of being away and say we should be one or the other... do you hate your male side because your were taught that... I was not taught to hate either of my sides... the male or the female... so as I express those feelings... I get this from even you Rocio... that you will not even read my words because I'm not like you.... think about that for a minute... how convenient ... I hope you can see my position... I certainly can see yours... except I'll never see you putting yourself before your family... and all of you that have accepted that my kind have to go... is a little strange for people would call for equally in gender variant behavior... for you see... there is a history when our tribe or our kind or trans people of yester year... whatever you call our history... there was a day when my kind of trans woman was revered... now... who is the one discriminating against who... am I the norm or the ab norm... look at our history... and Mary if Rocio want listen at least look deep inside and ask... when were we great and how are we so looked down upon now... and why... there is evidence that we were advisers to kings and queens... when and how did that stop... I think it stopped when we began to think of ourselves instead of others... I'm not and neither is Izettl saying you are wrong for being yourself... Rocio, you are saying we are wrong for giving our take on it... and you want us to shut up and not say it anymore... we are not telling you to not be trans... you are telling us to stay quiet... why is that... is it because you know more than we do about what you are speaking of... you know more about being a woman than a woman does... oh come now... we are older than that... and you know more about my situation than I do... oh please bitch... wake up... I have a family that loves me and accept that I am different, I have friends that know I struggle and still love me... I have most all of the community that you say you are part of, loving me and trying to help me deal with my own... gifts... so join us... I don't hate you I love you... I know it's hard... it's been hard for me... and I am so happy for you in your transition... if... and this is a big if... if you didn't hurt your family... not speaking of your parents... if you notice, we are only speaking of late transitioners here... those of us who chose to birth a family and then decided that it's just to hard... that's BS to me... and more than likely if you stay here and speak your mind... you'll see we are not monsters, just people like you trying to make sense out of a weird thing that happened to all of us here... lets talk... communication is the key... I hope you girls have a great day tomorrow... again I am so sorry to heap more pain upon you... I really am...

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      Mary 3 years ago

      And Jeanine , in the case if you ask. My (male) name was not Mario :) it was Mustapha (but I am not terrorist)

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      RocioFernanda 3 years ago

      Izettl....you asked "So a trans wants to tell me how hard it is being a trans?"... who else should tell you about that?!?!...

      You are right I don't know how is it to be born a woman...but I never ever assumed that it was easy. I can only imagine what women suffer and I respect them and admire them for that.

      But , that is not the point. I am very upset with your text because you declare that you do not wish trans people to be treated as "normal", you are stating that encouraging their existence and their happiness will be "detrimental to our society". Why?.

      I agree with you that trans women will never understand how is it to be a born woman... but they still have the right to be treated however they wish to be treated...simply because that´s a human right. On the other hand you don't have any rights to tell who can be treated as a woman and who can't... no matter who you are

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      RocioFernanda 3 years ago

      Jeanine just so you know after reading the first line of your comment I just stopped reading: "Rocio, are you gender variant... and if so was your male name... Rocky...lol..."

      I'm sure anything else you have to say is irrelevant

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      Mary 3 years ago

      It is true that the world is mostly dominated by masculine , heterosexual ,white, cisgender culture and every one who is excluded from this is suffering . And I learnt through years that trying to proof that others are suffering less does not help and does proof that I am suffering more . Though I think Transwomen get a lot of discrimination all over the world and specially in north America if she is : Immigrant , not white , trans -woman .she got the whole package . I remember I watched a video of a psychiatrist , she was trying to proof how discrimination affect the mentality of people and she made like an experiments she asked a group of people to start to ridicule the ones that have brown eyes and within one hour this group of brown eyes people started to feel depressed and frustrate, I think that explain that transwomen come and leave angry comments here , their frustration does not necessary come from reading this hub( nor from testosterone Jeanine) , it comes from accumulation of frustration . I just want to add that not all transwomen were typical white , heterosexual , middle aged men ,time change and there all types of women .I do not deny that reading this hub and many comments written by Izetti and Jeanine make me sad and more depressed (I do not hate) . And the question that I keep asking to my self , if coming here and reading comments makes me feel sad , why I keep coming ? is that a kind of mental illness , like a masochism or something ? Am I mentally ill ? is that because I am trans ? or I am trans because I am mentally ill from the beginning ? . I do not know what I am saying :)

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Rocio.

      It is very different living life as a woman from birth. You see I've had to earn my spot....it wasn't easy. No, men don't like it when you pass them on the freeway or respect your opinion at work. My dad transitioned at age 55. He made a mans living. Got his way in the world as a man. Getting boobs at age 13, getting teased about having those boobs. That was my experience not his.

      Getting teased for girly things, like crying and being more sensitive. So Rocio forgive me if I don't completely emphasize with how hard it is for you, or trans to be a woman. You see, we've gone through, and go through, that every day. So a trans wants to tell me how hard it is being a trans? Let me tell you about being a woman...

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      Jeanine 3 years ago

      Rocio, are you gender variant... and if so was your male name... Rocky...lol... sorry dear I just had to say it... and turn about it fair play because you are attacking a gentic female... my friend... if you are a a woman or a trans woman... what is your goal sweet heart.... more than likely to be and live the life of a normal woman... well if you are a normal little girl and your father never explains what he is doing nor why he is dressing... that normal little girl hurts and more than likely feels like Izettl here... so much for normal... right... I am gender variant and I understand completely what Izettl is saying..... the good thing about the Psychology community is they do question all of the things you just mentioned before they give you a license... lol... so try and be the woman you are or try and be the woman you want to be... understand...or are you one of those that believe we should believe you are a woman just because you say you are... that doesn't cut it in a real girls world... they have to prove they are all woman... just like you do dear... if you are a real woman which I doubt very seriously or you would understand that it's not a womans world but a mans world... and in a mans world, you can just say it... and your words do hold some weight because you are .... after all a man... in a womans world things are very different and if you are trans, you know this and I do apologize if that's offensive, but lets get real... the biggest challenge for our community in my mind is, controlling the anger that we experience as men and can't seem to control as women.... your anger here shows that challenge I am speaking of... and believe it or not women can discuss this gift we have over coffee and laugh their asses off about a friend of their who is having problems with gender ...then before they leave the table, they are compassionate enough to be crying and praying for their friend...so when you write pay attention... we are sitting at the table with you and crying for you because we know you have not reached the place yet where you are paying attention... and really I am not trying to hurt your feelings... if you are a trans woman, God knows you have enough grief so I don't need to heap any more on to your plate...I hope understand that a real woman can discuss this with out calling names or getting mad so the getting mad thing is definitely a male behavior... not because I say it... but because every woman on earth will say it... go find me 5 women who agree with you... thats the way women do it... they have support and they lend support to ideas they believe in... or did you thing that run for women /the pink ribbon was started by a man or a mens group...lol...lol.. I think you are cute in that you want to tell us your opinion but don't you know you can't tell a woman anything...lol... Rocio... I know you don't want to stop and ask for directions but over here in this part of the world... they are free and we'll give you a cup of coffee and bring you a scone if you would like... chill and take something... your husband won't mind... he likes it if you are a little like that sometimes... hope you have a great day... the strangest part about our community is... we all say no one should judge us... but most of our community judges everyone... just like you have been doing here with Izettl.... this is her opinion dear... she has a right to that right... just like you and I... I don't have to agree with it... nor do you... she is wrong and you are right because....?..... because you say so..lol....lol....lol.... oh come now... you are older than that aren't you...

    • izettl profile image
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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Mostly I think the hub is about a confused girl who has a trans dad. I think anyone can relate- when you grow up one way and find out things were completely different behind the scenes.

      "In the awkward moments of me asking him questions, he seemed to answer in a harsh tone and allude to some blame on me for him waiting to change his life. I had so many questions, but I knew my dad's tolerance was low for him being questioned about anything. I realized, for the first time, I never questioned my dad even about other things. It was time I did. "

      This was from the hub, and it's just one paragraph of many that lead the reader to believe my dad was the victim? I don't think so.

      Not enough pages to tell the whole story- I was focusing on the trans part. How do you make an essay out of an entire childhood. If you also read the hub written here, it says I didn't know how to feel. I WAS angry at my dad hiding it from me, lying to me. If you also realize psychologically speaking when someone loses a parent they've known (a dad) they grieve- DABDA (steps of grieving). There is denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

      Also read a comment I made to another above "What seems to be hurtful is that we (as the kids) are being selfish by having feelings or reactions to this. No matter what we are supposed to be supportive and not go through our own grief (yes., it's grief when you lose a parent to anything). If we have emotions toward it, we are viewed as non-supportive of the LGBT community."

      To tell someone they aren't allowed to have to feelings they have, is silly. There are many of us out there who have lost a parent to trans- no we don't need another mom, or an aunt, or anything like that. We needed our dad.

      What would have also been nice is if my mom had nice clothes to dress up in or I had money to go to college. It's not like we didn't have the money, that's the issue, we did but my dad chose to buy designer outfits, wigs, feminine apparel, make-up from department stores while my mom went to the drugstore for make-up. And that's called "selfish". In the city I live near, I see people treat homeless as if it's perfectly normal. No, it's not but we ignore or accept it. There are some thing in society that need to be addressed rather than just accepted!

      Go back and read some comments from "Jeanine" on here. That's my long time friend I made through this hub. A trans, but who did not transition completely due to putting family first, like many women do. Honestly Jeanine is what I would typically see as someone who truly feels as a woman does but is in a man's body. Most other trans I know are selfish and see women as merely dressing up in pretty clothes.

    • RocioFernanda profile image

      RocioFernanda 3 years ago

      ...well having known the whole story.. then I must apologize, your father just happens to be a bad person...but as you said you did not tell the whole story in the beginning, did you?. People assume your dad is the victim because that's how your story portraits him/her... Pay attention to everything you wrote and you'll see how you just seem to be complaining as many transphobic persons do without giving any reasons to it... Next time just tell the full story...

      Also next time don't raise questions like "Do you think transgender people should be treated as normal?"... because that kind of question is including ALL transgender people who now have to pay for the hate you have towards a single bad person: your dad.

      Finally I quote one of your last comments: "I think just accepting trans would be a detriment to our society"...and the following pseudo explanation you gave to that statement is just sad.. I think someone should review your case because probably your titles in Psychology should be removed...

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      RocioFernanda,

      Just one more thing...you have also fell into the stereotype trap. Without knowing the whole story, you assumed my dad was the victim. So many people have commented like that, with anger towards me....assuming because my dad is trans he was the victim in this scenario.

      Honestly I think our overly politically correct society is damaging protected groups like trans. People are afraid to be near them for fear of offending them. They stare because there isn't any good info out there. It's trans versus the world and most are as intolerant of the world as they believe people are intolerant of them. A child stares when they don't understand something so I just see the looky loos as people who don't understand something.

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      Lizett 3 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Rocio Fernanda,

      I think you were offended when you read the title and had your mind made up to hate me before you read the first paragraph. I feel pain for my dad when people stare at him in public. I really do.

      I can tell you that my dad cheated on my mom- that was hurtful. A real woman with or without gender reassignment doesn't abandon their kids or break up the family. As a parent myself, I can tell you I either don't expose my kids to something they don't understand or if they are I explain it to them. A child is not capable of understanding why her dad is sometimes a guy and sometimes a woman. My parents could have not let me see that or explained it to me.

      I am informed, I have degrees in Psychology. I also know it's gender identity disorder so yes it is all in the brain. Girls and boys are treated differently from the time they are born so how would a baby born a male know what it's like to be treated like a female. My dad spent 55 years of having a great career as a male, was treated better in work and society- better than most women who work twice as hard to be treated twice as worse...no, he has no idea what it's like to be a woman. Making fun of my mom for gaining weight after having me? You better get informed. I don't share to whole story about my dad being verbally abusive- but he should be excused cause he wanted to be a woman. Geesh. I am so tired of people attacking me for my thoughts when they're not the thoughts YOU think. Respect each person's experience.

      You realize you said it was "normal" to kill abnormal babies in the middle ages. So if that was normal back then then how is it abnormal? My dad walking around in a fancy slip might be normal 30 yrs from now, but it certainly wasn't 30 yrs ago. It was an awful BIG secret for a little girl to keep and never understand WHY I had to keep it secret. There is some things parents can keep to themselves. Kids have no concept of understanding sexuality at a young age.

      My dad has some issues...controlling, narcissistic, lacks empathy so excuse me if I don't return the favor. And yes, it is difficult because of society to look at the daughter of a trans and people assume something is wrong with me. I'm not saying that's right, but I'm simply stating a reality.

      I think just accepting trans would be a detriment to our society because the medical community passes these people onto surgery. What if there is a psychological component we're missing and throwing out a one-size-fits-all surgery prescription is not the answer. I think trans have had some issues growing up and simply telling them to go ahead and be a woman (or man) is skipping over some necessary work to be done with one's past. I think it allows for them to never deal with the WHY. Like a person who takes diet pills or has surgery, they never have to deal with WHY they are overweight.

    • RocioFernanda profile image

      RocioFernanda 3 years ago

      I just want to say that you mentioned "normality". BuT I'd like to remind you that in the Middle Ages it was "normal" to kill babies born with Down Syndrome or Dwarfism...what I'm trying to say is that the normal thing to do is not always the right thing to do. Nowadays "normal" people stare and point at transgenders...is normal but it's wrong. Please don't be normal, please don't ask your dad to be normal...he/she is very special and you should be grateful for that.

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      RocioFernanda 3 years ago

      I can't believe what I just read... are those your real feelings for a person who gave you your life?... your dad is not hurting anybody, except for your pride. You feel embarrassed of going out with her , and you are blaming her for that , when the fault is all yours!.. your fault and also of the people staring at you . Those other people out there are the ones who are hurting you and your dad and it's so sad you are not being able to see that, and support your dad. So sad.

      By the way your second part says: Having boobs doesn't make you a woman... I can tell you that having a penis doesn't make you a man... but the brain is something very complicated . Some transexual cases are an actual anatomical condition of the brain...please get informed

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Angie,

      I am sorry you have to go through this. I am also sorry your dad does too. There just doesn't seem to be a right way to do all this and not strain the relationship forever. I have come to terms it will never be the same between my dad and I- it's been 13 years since his transition. Just so much pain and lies in the past that, like you said, it's just another one to top it off with.

      What seems to be hurtful is that we (as the kids) are being selfish by having feelings or reactions to this. No matter what we are supposed to be supportive and not go through our own grief (yes., it's grief when you lose a parent to anything). If we have emotions toward it, we are viewed as non-supportive of the LGBT community.

      I also have another hub if you want to view that- it's Families of Transgenders

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Dave s,

      I never wanted my dad to ask for permission, but I believe he would be equally hurt if I was pregnant and had a kid and suddenly told him one day...but it's my body. You see, that argument is invalid. It's a kind of gesture to share major things...not to blindside close family. It's also the lying that hurt my mom and I most.

      He also did effect MY body- my psychology. It's pretty messed up when he needed to dress like a woman around the house, telling me not to tell others, and leading me to believe all this is normal. That is selfish. No woman would do that to her kids unless mentally ill.

      And...Dave. My dad wants me to call "him" dad and my kids to call him grandpa. Post YOUR disrespect somewhere else. And by the way I have trans friends.

      entropyartist,

      Thanks for stopping by. Yes, for the most part the hurt doesn't come from the trans thing- just initially, but the ongoing awkward relationship and it being mostly on my terms to come visit him or make the relationship work.

      Things like my dad wanting me to call him dad- I don't know what's right or wrong and it's like walking on egg shells. If my dad was more open to being with I don't this would have been awkward as it is now.

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      Angie 4 years ago

      I just wanted to say I have read a few of the comments here & in coming weeks/years I will read more.. tonight though I feel a little emotionally overwhelmed.

      a little over 2 months ago my dad told my family that he identified himself as TG, last week while on the phone with me he told me he wanted to go to bangkok to get the "op"

      I love my father very much & through my childhood I was daddy's girl, he was my hero, despite the messy way our lives were & still are. so many phsycological issues & trauma.. this is just another one..

      I love him & feel accepting & yet I don't.. I certainly don't want to loose my father as he is now.. & don't want another mother as I have a very supportive one of those already..

      just trying to come to terms with the loss of my father the way he is now & come to terms with this strange women who at 60 something is acting like a 15 year old girl.. I am still very confused but it is heartening to read that there are others out there who's fathers transitioned.. I just wish my dad had done it when I was 7 or 8 I think I would have coped better than now at 30..

      there is still such a long way to go on this journey.. & before long I will have to reach rock bottom but at least from there I can come back up..

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      smoke and mirrors 4 years ago

      Always important to remember in life that it all is a matter of perspective. I feel that some times it is important to remember that we are fortunate to live in enlightened enough times that we can debate the issues mentioned in this forum. I read the above passages and it still continues to sadden me. How easy it is to miss the point of all the hurt.

      Relationships vary and can be incredibly diverse. I recall meeting a friend of my transgender parent. Another woman who had transitioned. I listened to her stories with interest. How she maintained her relationships with her children, made time for her kids, and (crucially) accepted that at some stage of her life she had a physical presence other than than the body I was meeting her in. It was a revelation to me. Why?My trans parent... Denied... Outright... That they ever had a physical presence other than the person I now met with. My trans parent went a step further renaming my mother. Using a mans name to justify her present reality.

      Do I resent her for this? No. Do I think it was the right thing to do? I don't. But it was one of her many decisions... One of the many I have to live with. I say the above... To add to perspective. There is no right or wrong to these complex situations. I can say with certainty I was hurt. I can say with certainty I experienced trauma due to a complex family unit that I still do not fully understand. I can also say for certainty my experience was one of many. The hurt is real. Finding a way to move beyond crude references and generalizations is pivotal. No amount of education will facilitate a perfect solution. It requires patience, tolerance, a level head and compassion. I haven't spoken to my trans-parent in over ten years now. Twice I have tried to rebuild the connection and both times I have been rebuffed. I don't resent her for her decions. I know for both of us life is challenging and difficult. Made harder by the ignorance of others. The ignorance of those that fail to realise my parent had to change gender. The ignorance of those who don't accept that I was hurt in the process.

      What is the truth in all of this?

      I say it is all a matter of perspective.

      Safe travels

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      entropyartist 4 years ago

      Dave-S, no one should be calling anyone else a "terrible person" because of how they react to changes in a family's dynamic. Families are tricky things and judgements shouldn't be made to hastily.

      By the same token, Izettl, I do truly hope that you can someday come to terms with your father's new identity. I know a number of people who identify as trans, and transitioning is never a decision that is made lightly, and I'm sure that taking this step was more difficult for your father than you imagine. The woman who your father is now, on the outside, is the same person who she has always been on the inside, the same person who taught you how to swim and ride a bike.

      You need to move past the hurt and realize that someone's gender identity or sexual orientation is what it is. Ask any LGBTQ individual and they will let you know that it really is about self-acceptance and that no amount of "nurture" will ever change the "nature" of it. When you can accept this, hopefully you will be able to forgiving the wrongs you felt and feel.

      I wish you the best.

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      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Dave-s... I am trans and you are totally full of it... this is about her feelings and if you are so tolerant, where's your tolerance for Izettl... and for you to correct someone who has lived this and you are just a friend... what a back seat driver that is... most trans I know... want to get on with their lives and have very little to do with the so called trans community after we transition... we are normal people caught in the wrong body... and personal acceptance is everything... not group acceptance... not pronouns... give me a break... that's for people playing that they are women... not real women... most real women I know, Genetic or gender variant, just want to settle down find a man and make a home for his kids and hers... period... that's it... not this BS you are peddling... I'm sure you may mean well but take a close look at your defense... is it real and if so I apologize... but from someone who deals with this day in and day out... you look like an on looker or a gawker... pay attention to what is happening here... we are discussing how to improve relations not accept the way you think we should act.... you are very welcome here but please share some of your tolerance with someone who may have a different opinion... than your own... and you need to try and get up to speed dear ... your ideas are old... this community is moving very fast and there are new ideas out there... one being... we don't want to be separated out ... we want to be blended in... thanks for your defense though... very male, cute and beautifully quaint in it's own way... I appreciate you though... anyone who is our friend is a good guy I'm sure...

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      Dave-S 4 years ago

      She is being selfish? She doesn't have to get your consent on ANYTHING on the matter on her own body. Btw get your pronouns right before you start talking about your father. They decided to do something that obviously they felt they NEEDED not WANTED. If you honestly think that you are wronged in this exchange then you are a terrible person.

      If you honestly want understanding on the matter, talk to more tans-identified individuals through your local LGBTQ community and not just speak about your misguided hurt cis-normative feelings on the matter. My best friend is trans and I have met a bunch of families that are perfectly functional with trans parental figures.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      filiformwart,

      Thanks for stopping by I think honesty is the main point here. Parents take on the persona of protection and end up lying to us to protect us. the issue with honesty and children is we never know how much is too much...I think about that now as my oldest is 5. When and what do I tell her about her "grandpa"? I also think it's ridiculous that people are willing to live a lie as my dad did and forsake honesty...even later in life with his other family.

      Melanie~

      I think I need to just sit around a campfire and sing Koombaya my lord because your comment simply isn't reality. Preaching acceptance when in reality we, nobody, has to accept anything. Why should we? Our culture is wrapped up in an ideal in our heads of a utopian society where differences should be celebrated. With all those buzz words and phrases like that I can't help but think you've just reiterated a non-profit website mission statement. I should celebrate that my dad lied to me. If you read with "feeling" into my story, it's not about my dad, it's about me...my experience which means I can have my own viewpoint. Same as poems, they are feelings of expression. Poets rant and do it with feeling. I write and do it with feeling. Anything less is not authentic. I am not into poetry but I expressed my feelings here. Because you don't agree, doesn't mean you have to like it. And how exactly would I have a beautiful opportunity to learn about other people when my dad never opened up to me about any of this, even after his transition. The beautiful opportunity turned into a wedge between my family and myself and my dad. I want to help others realize it's Ok to be upset if this is similar to your situation or if you are the parent considering transitioning, that you take the time to be honest with your kids. I do not tolerate my dad lying to me all of my childhood. I guess I am intolerant.

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      Melanie 4 years ago

      You're story is heartbreaking. Where you could have a beautiful opportunity to learn about other people, teach your children acceptance and grow, you instead cling to misconceptions - and justify your rantings of intolerance as "feelings" and "opinion". We live in a diverse world, learn to celebrate the differences of others - not condem them with indignation.

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      filiformwart.org 4 years ago

      I almost burst into tears reading your article. Same with you, I most probably felt the same. You're definitely right, izettl . It is very essential to be honest. There are things that we just want to keep within ourselves, deepest secrets we don't want to divulge but what if the emotions of our love ones are at stake? What you felt now is a feeling your dad I think, he anticipated. Its just that he wanted to get out of his shell, to express what he really is. There's a lot of lessons to get from your story. Let us brought up our children with all honesty. Let us be honest with what we feel and tell them things they need to know. After all, we don't want them misunderstood us. Thanks for sharing.

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      jeanine 4 years ago

      Larry, help your brother, I also identify with women, and would love to look like I feel inside... but have realized in my own life that the part of woman I respect most and need most in my own life is the ability to comfortably love and or sacrifice for my own family.... the pain and suffering is what makes the woman to me... suffering for a cause is not quite the same as just suffering... so I chose to stay in this body and although I don't long for suffering I do want to be long suffering... does that make sense... i hope it does... whether it is for my family or for my partner... I do get great satisfaction from serving my family and providing a balanced structure as you have mentioned... so proud of you and your decision to have a family... it will not be easy, and I know... my children are all grown now but they are still my babies to me... and I still hold them like when they were my little babies... and for me that is a great satisfaction... if I had transitioned long ago, I would never get the chance to do that...so the feeling of being a mom holding her children is much more important to me than looking like a mom and never getting to hold them again... or if I did get to hold them, it would only be some unnatural or uncomfortable thing that they forced themselves to do...of course that could be my own thoughts on the subject, but hey if I didn't get to hold my children... I think I would surely die... this way they gladly fall into my arms and I don't mind being called dad... it's the closeness that I long for, it's the smell of my babies being that close to me that is so gratifying.... so don't forget to enjoy those moments yourself and share them with your brother.... I'm sure there is great satisfaction in transition... but in my group meetings, there was so much hurt that I couldn't stand the thought of hurting my family like that... everyone said ... oh they will get used to it and they must accept it... but in my heart of hearts, I couldn't take that chance... maybe I'm just a scaredy cat... but when they would tell the horror stories of how their wives hated them and how the woman they loved had turned their children against them... I wanted to run from the room each time crying... no body that I could ever have would replace the joy of having children... plus most of my group were still in love with or living with a woman... I have loved living with a woman but oh my if I did have the body of a woman, I would definitely be with a man... some things about trans and our community are very weird to me... if we are women why would we ever want a woman... plus this one statement kept nagging me in the back of my mind, when the doctors would tell me I have a severe case and should transition... I would always asked the doctors as well as my help group... "what woman do you know , that would hurt her children on purpose" and I had to say none... unless there were mental or crazy in some way... so it gives me great satisfaction to know I have sacrificed for my little men that have grown up into good men....now if I could get pregnant if I transitioned, that would be an entirely different story... I do long for that feeling and if there is one thing I feel I missed out on by being in the body of a man, it's that feeling of life growing within me... I am sure if that was a possible, I would have transitioned many years ago... again it would be just to have family and babies... I do cry some nights wishing that could have happened for me... to have a man love me enough and me love him enough that our love would create another is truly supernatural to me... stay strong and pray for me as I pray for you... praying for your brother as well....

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Larry~

      I call B.S sometimes too. It's difficult for me, coming from a psychology background, to think something isn't going on mentally that needs to be dealt with. I feel like I've always wanted to be famous from the time I was little, but since it's hard to do and not me right now, I gave my plan B, C, and D a shot instead. "Beyond their control"- yes I agree with this. I have a disability at an early age and I could have succumbed to it, but did not nor have I yet. It's my choice.

      I'm glad my perspective from the family is out there on the Internet and I'm very thankful for others to share. When I first wrote this, it seemed like an attack from trans community, but I have my own feelings as someone affected by it and I know there are always two sides to everything. It does affect us as well...enormously. Our "norm" is not the norm. I wrote a hub about children with mentally ill parents and how their "norm" is forever disturbed even though they did not have the mental illness.

      Thanks for sharing.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Bag26,

      I do know your position. My advice might be similar to "smokeandmirrors" comment, but it takes time. At age 6 I became aware of my dad dressing in full slips and wigs. My mom never dressed fancy I think cause her femininity was downplayed due to my dad. As a woman, that was all very confusing.

      I'm glad you're interested in psychology. It helped to explain things to me.

      I have a friend on here that I regularly communicate with- who identifies with women, but did not get a sex change, because of his family. We were chatting the other day about compassion. It's very hard for people in our position (you and I as the kids of trans parents) to have compassion because often times it makes us feel sorry for the parents ultimately then we let them walk all over us.

      I did not feel better about talking to my dad afterwards until I felt like I got some explanations...about my childhood etc. You may need that from your dad too, but like all relationships, it has to reciprocated. He/She has to acknowledge your needs too.

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      Larry 4 years ago

      I posted a similar comment on a similar blog recently, but I wanted to repost my story here too.

      My brother is going through a similar situation as your dad right now.

      I love my brother, but I've found myself getting so angry at him lately. He acts like he doesn't have a choice in the matter.

      I call bullshit. Yes, everything you do in life is a choice. Everything. Sometimes those choices are hard, but they are still choices. And I'm not speaking ignorantly, I went through the same exact thing. Since I was a little kid, I wanted to be female. I hated being a boy. I tried trans support groups, cross dressing, trying to "transition" and all that nonsense, and it was fun and exciting at the time, but ultimately an empty endeavor that brought no real lasting happiness. Everything looked better on the other side of the gender gap. But you know what? I wanted something even more: a family of my own.

      My brother always talks about how he needs to "be himself". And by that he means cosmetically alter his body and dress up a certain way. Years ago, I would have sympathized with that. But now, I've come to the realization that I am not my body, I am not my clothes, I am not my face, I am not my genitals.

      I am me: The product of my choices- The architect of my own fortune.

      So I grew up, and I stopped being the boy I hated and became a MAN that I could respect. I realized that a man isn't just a person with a certain set of genitalia, it's a person with integrity, honor, and love for family above love for self.

      I have a wife and children of my own now. There is nothing in this world I would trade for them. NOTHING. Not even my own life. I would literally and figuratively give my life for my family. That's a choice I make every single day.

      Some trans people I talk to criticize me for not "being true to myself" because I "look and act like a man". How is conforming to someone else's expectation of how I'm supposed to act "being true to myself?" it's not. Every choice I make is my choice. I accept that. What I don't accept is people making excuses and justifications for their choices as if they were beyond their control.

      I'm not trying to say it's an easy choice. It's not. Gender identity disorder is some seriously difficult stuff to deal with, for everybody involved. Which is why I'm glad I stumbled on these blogs which give voices to the others. Everything I've read online until now has always been the perspective of the poor oppressed trans-dude, and never his wife or children. So thank you for sharing this.

      I grew up without a father myself, and I know from experience that it can mess you up in all kinds of ways if you let it. but remember, just because you're the victim of circumstance or the choices of others, that doesn't mean you can't rise above it, make your own choices, and find true and lasting happiness in life. I did.

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      bag26 4 years ago

      J,

      Thank you for returning a comment to mine, you have made me feel a hole lot better to know that you think of I think I've tried my very best to try and understand that's all I can do! Because I have and I do, but as said in the main article, and as I can understand my self, that my Dad doing the ultimate change for him self is making him selfish! All I hear on the telephone is I want to see you again, I would like to have a relationship with my daughter, which I totally understand from his point of view! But I ask him very time do you think it's fair I've lost my Dad, and you want me to get to know a person who slightly resembles him, then you'll have the op and be a totally new person again and you still want to be my father! It doesn't work that way Moms are women and Dads are male, I believe that for a child to grow up in a happy secure environment is to have a mother and a father it provides a healthy balance of structure in your life a support system! There are things that only a father can provide a child and a mother can! I don't want another Mother I've got one already, I want my Daddy back! he doesn't want to be that person, hell, he doesn't act like one he's been in a serious amount of debt for 3 years unemployed hardly trying to make anything of him self and I can't remember the last time he payed my Mom to contribute to my up bringing, so really I don't understand why I still hurt inside for him I can't say how I feel! It makes me angry! My Dad has gone now , but I look to these pages for some security I mean how do you morn for somebody who hasn't died but is no longer them selves on the inside or out! It's a mind fuck - excuse my language but that's the only suitable way to explain it! Yeah you might be right in any parent child transexual situation they may be no right thing to do no yes or no answer, as each case is an individual one!

      As you have said to look upon it maybe as an unique opportunity, to have two parents the same gender I can't, I mean I'm ok with gay marriage and totally all for it, one of the pluses of having an a trans parent, you find your self totally open minded to people's differences, but I will stop at the point of them having children because I know how hard it is having to parents Of the same sex, and the complications of bullying and needing a father figure to go to and a mother... As you say councillor are a load of rubbish in our situation, why would you want to talk to a stranger for start, and secondly they have no clue either! I miss life being normal, everything made sense but from a young age I didn't have that I thank you though for your comment it means a lot coming from someone in the same situation! :)

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      SmokeandMirrors 4 years ago

      Bag26,

      I have written in this forum before and continue to find myself returning to read the stories written within. I often see postings from people whose parents have transitioned and I feel compelled to contribute, offer some words of solace or just be there to say "it all works out."

      I don't reply though, I hold myself back and think to myself, what can I possibly offer? However, I think it is the simple knowledge that you are not alone that helps.

      The grieving process I believe is a fundemental to this transitioning experience. Even if, on the best case scenario, you maintain a relationship with this new parent. It is still a new parent. I often wish, all those sixteen years ago, that I was given the opportunity to celerbrate the life of a parent I cared so deeply for yet lost.

      To bag26, I would say you are young, and at such a young age these experiences can be conflicting. My youngest brother was thirteen when my father began his transitioning, this was a massive blow to my brother. How do you quantify the impact this whole experience can have on someone so young? I don't think you can to be honest.

      I also find professional councellors somewhat overwhelmed with the subject matter. There is no 'right' here within the context of this debate, as such it becomes difficult to actually target assistance and care.

      If I can offer any advice from my side it is to trust yourself. No one other person can know the intricacies of the relationship that you have with your parent. You might navigate through this new relationship, perhaps the relationship ends. I would say though that if you have endeavoured to the best of your ability to understand, that is all that can be asked of you.

      I have read a lot in these forums, I have always wanted to understand how I was affected by my transitioning parent. I know now I have experienced trauma, I know that this affects me in many different ways. I also know I am aware of it now so that it is manageable. It has taken me sixteen years to get there. I always used to think to myself, my parent feels actualised as a person. That is a personal result for them. The next stage has the challenges. I have read others who have stated that there is now a unique opportunity to have two of the same gender parents, and how this can be an experienced to celerbrate. I do believe this outcome is possible. For others though, perhaps like my experience, there is division and personal hardship.

      Be brave, be fearless and seek truths. Truths that have meaning for you. Ultimately some sense will be made from this experience. A sense that will be unique for you.

      Safe travels.

      J

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      bag26 4 years ago

      Hi so, I'me guessing this is an American site but hey your all going through the same things, I am 16 and live in England and keeping my main name and details anonymous, as I believe you never can be too careful on the Internet now a days. Reading this page made me want to cry, everything written from start to finish is almost an die tickle to my own, from finding out my Dad a guy who in my eyes was my best friend and favourite person in the hole world, didn't want to be him and more, to grieving for a father who hasn't as such died but a stranger has morphed and now using his body, to me questioning my hole life, I'm a literal accidental on purpose mistake. Produced from a man who knew how he was from an early age knew about his '' condition'' yet proceeded to marry my Mother and selfishly brought a child into the matter, and made a decision to leave become this person and for me to be fine with it and feel sorry for him! I too know want a career in clinical psychology! So reading this I was wondering if you'd respond I never have met someone in the same position as me, and would find it helpful to hear from another's view! I am very bitter as I have put my self in stages, I have gone through the mental break down and the hole idea of me Dad not being the same person any more knocking me for six part and decided being angry and bitter a natural stage of grieving! I need help so badly I haven't seen him for ruffle 3 years and only recently started ringing him! I have no clue how to deal with things as from the age of 6/7 my world dint make a hole lot of sense...?

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      Andrea 4 years ago

      I am so glad I started transitioning before the prospect of kids, so they get to know me as my true self and never know me as before. I hate myself everyday when I think of the harm I will inflict on them as growing up with a TS parent will never be easy - I feel wretched to the bone for the harm just my existence will cause them.

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      Karen 4 years ago

      I meant "...expression of my femininity." The computer changed it to felinity!

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      Karen 4 years ago

      I am so glad I found your pages! I had a similar but slightly different experience with my father, but when I found out about his "secret" life it was during the 1970's, and I was just hitting puberty. There was absolutely no information or support system for us children at the time and I thought I was the only one who was trying navigate this. I remember the day that Phil Donahue had a show transexualism and I bought the transcript and read and re-read it constantly for insight into my dad and my feelings about him and gender and his denial that it was effecting anybody but him. I kept his secret until I was 35 and only then was able to spill it out in counseling. His transsexualism pervaded every aspect of my life and he has never addressed or owned up to how it has shaped my life and my expression of my felinity. The internet is great. I am glad there are now places to go for other children of transexuals to get support and information.

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      Jeanine 4 years ago

      The threeqts mom, I am so sorry you have had to suffer this indignation... I am two spirited individual who chose to stay within this body for my family... and there is a history of how we did act as a tribe and in most every tribe in the world, we did exist and live productive lives... unfortunately we have been sold a bill of good by a surgery happy medical community... if you google "two spirited people" you see one example of how we lived and coped with this gift that we all have... it is lack of education that has done the modern day transsexual in... and his/her belief that the medical community would only want to help us... the more I read the more I realize that this may not be true... Izettl and I often speak in this hub about how many full transitions would be taken if we actually had to raise a child from birth to two years... not nearly as many... although I do know some true transsexual women and they are all sorry for the hell they have put the families through... most trans I know or meet are unfortunately misled and are still very much guys... with the "Git rdone" attitude"...I want go on but. here is the one thing when I wanted to change my body so badly to match how I feel inside, that I could never reconcile,... "what genetic female did I know or had ever met, that would hurt her children on purpose... not one... save for the woman who is sick and mental.... in fact I would kill any man who tried to hurt my children... including the one I live inside of".... understand... there is no excuse ... none for a real woman and true woman or a woman who knows she is a woman inside, to ever hurt her children....

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      the3qtsmom 4 years ago

      I am mom to three children whose dad left when he decided after 15 years of marriage to become a woman. So much can be said about how to make this experience easier on children, but it is extremely traumatic for my 3. They know the difference between what a regular dad would provide and what their dad provides. It is a shame that psychological community and family courts don't take the realistic view that this is hurtful to children and it burdens them with something they ought not be burdened with....living dad's lie with him, being in the closet with dad? Losing the dad you knew for years? Seeing dad prioritize you behind his feminization. I hope my ex never treats my daughter the way he treated me, he was and is jealous of me and was always and still is on a fault finding mission with things wrong with me. It is as if he thinks he is the better "woman". I tell my kids you cannot change where you come from but you are in charge of your destiny. There are ways to help a child cope with this as anything else, but I don't agree that parents who transition are equivalent to any other parent nor do I agree it is good for the children to be exposed to the lifestyle on a regular basis, but knowing that dad wants to see them and be involved to some extent is probably good for any child to some extent. My ex has severely undermined all aspects of positive parenting and that has less to do with his clothing choices, but his own selfishness. This is hurtful and harmful to children and I think more children and parents of children of transsexuals need to come forward and challenge the indoctrination by those who want to normalize this, it will never be "normal". It will always hurt someone, even those who make the choice to change are often the ones hurt.

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

      Hi Megan25, I truly believe that every viewpoint here is neither right or wrong, just mearly the opinion of each and every person, as they see it or experience it....... For myself, I lived a big part of my life as a guy, got married, had a child and had not realized what it was that I had been doing all my life, until just over a year after my divorce, when I finally needed to understand. That is when I started asking questions and researching to give what I had been doing, a name. I did not marry and have a child to decieve or hurt anyone. Even though I love my son dearly, I, like a lot of transgender people, wish I had realized and started transitioning younger, but we all have to make do with what we have. Fortunately, except for the loss of a few presumed friends and my father who disowned me, a mother and an ex wife who are making things difficult, I have been very fortunate and things are going extremely well. Each one of our stories are uniquely different but quite similar, because it is brought on by the same common interest, someone in this situation is Transgender. I can't speak for others, but I have learned and grown from reading Izettl's hub and nearly all of the comments that have been posted. It's all in how the information is used. I do wish everyone here all the best.

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      Megan25 4 years ago

      Btw, my grandfather (not biological) the second man my grandma married turned out to be trans and without Tina .... i would be dead not a speculation ... but a fact. She helped me realize that OMG i am not alone ...so thats the closest i have to having a parent thats trans.... and god rest her soul Tina passed away in 2008 in regaurds to how it affected me? (her involvment in my life not her death) ... I knew she was like me before i was even told which is why they made the choice to tell me *theres a longer story to all this but ill stop there*

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      Megan25 4 years ago

      Oh my god.... I have no idea where to start.

      My brain is scrambled from reading your hubs and then all the comments to follow. I agree and disagree with ALOT of points made by you and fellow readers, when i first read this i will admit that i thought you were being a selfish brat who had NO idea what she was talking about but as i read on i found out ok she's legit, but one point i must point out .... if your "dad" had admitted to your mother that "he" was trans before they got married do you think it would of happened? do you think you would be on this earth today? I don't ......Now sit tight because what I write next is on the lines of novel length lol .... your "dad" I think introduced u to it at an early age for (maybe) a legitimate reason ... to get you used to it for what was to come years later I.E. SRS sexual reasignment surgery .... or maybe just didnt give a damn ...who knows .... as i do not know your full history in that aspect... next maybe didnt tell you about the plans for SRS (and doing it) because she thought it was ok, that you wouldnt care or would be just as "accepting" as when you were a kid ... again I dont know but what I DO know is that alot of them hide it and do it without talking to the family for many different reasons I.E. rejection, being disowned, selfishness, and many other a reason the list goes on. Next with the part of her acting (mostly) male maybe she just doesnt see it or sees it as ok .... I myself am a M2F trans woman and i do NOT curve every which way to perfect myself to be everything that society THINKS a woman should act, be .... i am my own person as are we all ...i have a friend a very good friend i might add who is a genetic femalewho acts more masculine then me and when i say act i dont mean prissy, exitable blah blah blah as you explained earlier with your "dad" being a female comes from within its the mind its not the clothes or the makeup or anything else. Mary had a few good points as did Jeanine, and alot of other ppl who posted.also a few of my family members disowned me upon learning about me being trans my brother doesnt want anything to do with me he called me a F** and told me to go straight to hell my own dad told me that i should give up this (act) and let it phase out cause if this is who i *wanted* to be he would never be seen in public with me because of how its so morally wrong. I am happier without their bull influence today anyways ... and on to something else i would like to cover .... there are a feew medical professionals who specialize in trans issues ... and many who dont have a damn clue what to say when you tell them you are a transsexual .... but for the ones that do specialize in it their first reaction is not "OH HORMONES ARE THE WAY TO GO" no they make sure that you are 100% sure this is what you want to do and the path you want to take to make sure your not making a mistake .... now for most of the uneducated ones that dont know what the hell they are talking about ......they try to talk you out of it then they try to understand it then they try to agree with you after a few nights of research and then they try to help you out ( as was one of my experiences with a therapist) I cant help you look into the life of a trans female i cant even give you much insight but i can tell yu that your "dad" may have had specific reasons why "he" didnt tell you about the decision to do the surgery without talking to you about it and i think if you havent then your next question should be "whyat was your reason for not telling me you didnt have to do this alone" then you might get the answers you seek if you can get her to open up and all that good jazz... ok much shorter post then i anticipated but im done for now .... and a question ..... you wrote this hub 4 years ago .... hows the relationship between you two at the moment ?

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      oksure 4 years ago

      It's nice to read something like this. I'm currently going through same situation with my dad. Main problems for me being 1) I didn't like the person my dad was before he started living life as a woman 2) the whole time through his transition he accused us all of being intolerant when really we just found it very very difficult. I talked to him about how I was coping once. He told me I was being stupid and left me crying in my front room alone. 3) He was being a transvestite first and not being a parent to me or my sister. 4) Wearing different clothes and accessories DOESN'T make you a woman 5) I am very uncomfortable being around trans people. I'm tolerant but I don't particularly like it. It really creeps me out. Me and my sister and mum don't talk to him anymore. It's not because he's trans, it's because he's a selfish, narcissistic asshole. 6) I have only told one of my friends about it. I'm ashamed. 7) I have never had a father. I have had a guy I lived with who constantly bullied and put me down because I was the only male in his life he could dominate.

      Just wanted to get that off my chest. I've got issues and I've always been too scared to talk to anyone about it. Despite me being very worried about my mental health.

      Thanks for writing something that let's me know that other people have gone through what I have.

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      Andrea 4 years ago

      Ietti - Jeanine - your comments have given me hope for the future. I am glad that I decided to transition before kids and I am truly glad I found this Hub Page. andrea z

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      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Bibiann, if you research this condition, you'll see we come from a great tribe called two spirited people...with a young boy or girl, it may be easier to explain the condition... then one does not have to destroy the childs memory of his dad... one can explain that his dad was uneducated on the subject and therefore is learning about the other side of his life that he had kept hidden because of his fear of others, mostly his parents... and although you may have lost the man to his own deception, use this opportunity to teach your child that there is nothing he can't talk to you about and nothing he can't tell you or ask you... you are always there and will always understand...as Izettl says, it's best to be honest in these things, but also protect him in making all comments age appropriate... so sorry for your loss... you gave it your best... move on... there is a wonderful man who would love to have you as his wife and would give the world just to be a father to your son... live your life now... the best thing for both of you is to have a man who loves you more than himself... TS is a nasty disorder, it takes everything you have... do not... dwell on the things that you dreamed he was... because he really wasn't...

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Bibiann,

      Sorry to hear about your struggles. That's a difficult age. There are resources such as counselors and The best bet is to be honest but in a age-appropriate way. Are you still in the marriage? Sounds like you are not but your son deserves an explanation honestly and age appropriately. Write more if you can so I can understand your situation better.

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Amielle,

      First, beautiful name. I think keeping it a secret would be the devastating part of it. Being open is what I craved. Neither of my parents ever explained any of it to me so later when I found out about lies and withholding information, I was sick at the thought my parents could do this. You also have to understand my dad was quite verbally abusive so there was additional issues in my story. Next, my dad would never have thought to ask anyone about how to deal with his family. Once you start a family, they must come first. Sounds like you are doing that. You have the support of your wife. I would dress accordingly for your daughters age. Dress as you want but keep in mind she may get confused ultimately why you dream both male and female, if you do. Not sure if you are fully transitioned...sex change, living as woman , etc.

      little girls may think you are playing dress up and that's not the case. Give it a word. I had nothing to go off. No compass for normal. If this life will be your daughters normal ,then have regular talks according to her age. Around 3 it is inappropriate for kids to see their parents of opposite sex naked. That age is also when they notice male/ female differences.

      Is there counseling available where you live. They can give you specific words and conversations to have with your kids.

      Don't keep secrets, that's what hurt me most, just know how to talk to kids and what is age appropriate. Guaranteed she will love you no matter what.

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      bibi-ann 4 years ago

      Hi just discovered your hub page.... Thank you.

      My son 9yrs is struggling with his "D".

      It was 7yrs ago when I was told ,I tried to keep the marriage going for 2 but "D"

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      Amielle Young 4 years ago from Sunshine Coast, Australia

      Hi izettl

      Many thanks for sharing this with us, and keeping up with the comments. Your honesty will help many of us who is struggling with ourselves and how to deal with our family.

      I am your typical transgender story, I started dressing up as long as I can remember, I don't know if I was 5 or 6. I grew up in a very typical family oriented Chinese household. Despite of strong desire of wanting to "look like a girl" (or perhaps I enjoy the perceived benefits of its peripherals such as attention etc).

      With the "scare"of China taking over Hong Kong, we became a split family when I moved to Australia with my mother whilst my brother and father stayed in Hong Kong. My mother cried everyday for two years, and I have to become the de facto "man of the household". The extra psychological responsibility, and my upbringing of consideration for others leave me to the conclusion that becoming a transgender is not an option. My only release would be coming home at night to IRC when I become someone else.

      I soon realised that it is not the external that matters to me. Yes, I still like to look pretty, and I am jealous of another woman's body, but I come to the realisation that it is something deeper. I don't know what it is, and to be frank it could be just that the attention you get from being a woman is just addictive.

      I then met the love of my life. I told her about my 'condition' after six months we have met. She struggled with it, but eventually decided that this is also who I am, the person she fell in love with. No, she doesn't like my condition, she doesn't want to know about it as she can't come to terms that she may be loving a woman, but she pity me and gives me the support that I need. Although my brother knows as well (he walked in on me), but my wife is the only ones who knows the whole story.

      We have our daughter 13 months ago, and now day after day, I start to come to the realisation that one day, I will have to face her with it. No, she is not exposed to my "cross dressing", but after reading your hub, I question if that's the right thing to keep a secret from someone so close to me.

      If we let her know before she comes of age, how would it affect her growing up?

      Many thanks for sharing your feelings. It made me think again.

      xxx

      Amielle

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Tina, yes I remember you. Well happy to hear about your daughter. My dad didn't change until I was 26 and it still took me a couple of years to really talk to him/her again. It has been around 12 yrs since his change and honestly the last couple of years have been the best between us.

      I think your message is important about it taking time. I think there is a part of kids that have to grieve the "old" parent and accept the new.

      Thanks for updating us.

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      samowhamo 4 years ago

      Hey izettl I have wrtitten an article here you might like to read.

      http://samowhamo.hubpages.com/hub/Me-And-My-Dad

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      tina 4 years ago

      Hi izettl

      I used to come onto your blog page two years ago and being transsexual myself I found the site very supportive even though i was on the other side of the coin so to speak, because your site was giving me an insight to the way my kids may be handling the situation of having a TS Father.

      I would just like to take this opportunity to let the readers and your self know that a few months ago my daughter came into my life after being apart for four years, however my daughter is twenty five and not a child . I would just like to say to your readers it may take a bit of time to adjust but i am sure if there was love between the both of you then I am sure their can be light at the end of the tunnel.

      Keep this blog going it`s FAB.

      Big!! Thanks.

      Tina x

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      Lizett 4 years ago from The Great Northwest

      Anon~ This comment from you I loved. Because it is so sane and mature in the midst of the past you came from and what goes on in your family. "I still keep in touch with my family, I will email them every so often. But that is about it. The less I keep in touch the more I forget about what is going on with the rest of my family, and I can focus on what I need to do, and how I feel."

      And "Nothing much seems to surprise me anymore". Wow I can relate to that. Even after my dad's sex change it was like there isn't much room for the shock factor in my life. You seem like you have a handle on a lot of this and I want to thank you for sharing your experience and viewpoint.

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      Jeanine 4 years ago

      Well said Andrea... we must try and find out for ourselves...

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      Andrea 4 years ago

      Anon - like Jeanine, I am very sorry that this happened to you. I cannot express any words that will make your situation easier. It is likely that your father felt he had no choice but to transition - he was no doubt suffering greatly, having to decide whether to transition to gain relief from his gender dysphoria or to put-off thoughts of transition for the sake of his children. This is a lose-lose situation. You were no doubt very close to your father - well, I would bet that even after transition, your Aunt is still close to you. Anon - I would urge you to take some time to find out about your Aunt - we are all stuck with our family, for better or for worse, and your parent is still "there" even if their appearance has changed greatly.

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      jeanine 4 years ago

      Anon, I am so sor this has happened to you... the selfishness that we all seem to have as trans is our greatest downfall... especially with our families... it over takes us and we are not even aware of what it is doing to others...I have fought the good fight but still am very selfish within my own family and although I have remained in this body I was given at birth, it is only because I read and know some of the damage we do as transsexuals to our families... I have remained in this body of a man because I do not want to hurt my children... there is so much hurt that we carry that it just becomes unbearable for most of us and the dam breaks... so just like the waters rushing to escape, so is our journey to escape having lived in this body for all of our lives... it doesn't make it right but it does make our own lives bearable.... you see socially we stopped growing long ago... and we are stuck back at the young boy who knows or thinks he is a girl inside... we stopped progressing as the person we were born, so it really is crippling to each of us, so much so that when we finally do decide to make the change, we realize we are so far behind that we are continually playing catch up... we don't mean to hurt... we just do hurt those around us... we don't know enough about ourselves to let you know how and why we are feeling this way... because we don't even know ourselves sometimes. We are growing as a culture and hopefully we are growing as trans... there are some of us now that see your pain and are choosing not to transition out of the body... now that doesn't make us any less women on the inside... it just has presented a new alternative to our tribe so to speak... some of us believe if we are really women, we would never do anything to hurt our children... never let any man hurt our children including the one we live in... we are growing as a type of people... there are more and more of us coming forward each day and choosing not to do it the medical communities way... I myself am one of these women... a woman who chooses to live in a man body because that keeps my children safe and stable... a body I have learned to use and live with, a mans body that I have fully taken advantage of in that people still says, its a mans world.. and in that respect, I can be paid more and I do have certain advantages that men have here in America...would I rather be a woman and look the part... absolutely... will I ever transition fully... I certainly hope not for my childrens sake... is there in relief for me... yes, in some strange way I feel more the woman because of my silent sufferings and unselfish sacrifice that I see so many women live for their families... so where there is a will there is a way... and yes dear we need to hear your story to encourage the trans women out here that we are to stay and love our families like genetic females so often do... the sacrifice then becomes part of our womanhood... becomes part of the love that can grow us into new women of this world... no longer captured by our own selfishness... no longer dictated to by a surgery that destroys lives... but a new woman... living within a mans body... a new woman who is unafraid to be herself in a mans world... praying for you dear... don't give up on us yet... we are maturing and we will one day take our rightful place again in society as healers and councilors to greatness... look up "two spirited people" if you want to know where we all came from... we were advisers to kings and queens... and we will be once again as soon as we stop trying to let the medical community fix us... for how can I be more... by letting the medical community make me less.... I can not... I am unique the way I am... two living as one... I have always been this way and will remain... whole by being two spirits living in one body... I can never be one or the other... I am both... please pray for me as I pray for you... again I am so sorry your father... was deceived by this medical community that believes that surgery is the answer...

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      Anon 4 years ago

      I don't mean to offend anyone by this post, I just wanted to share my story as mine is different to most of what I have read out there. In a lot of these stories people have happy endings, parents staying together, and everything seeming more normal and accepted.

      I have read all the posts and blogs where its all about 'how tough it is for the person undergoing the transition' but there is nothing really out there about how this affects the children. Psychologists often talk about how you should be accepting to whats happening and be open to it. But realistically that will never happen.

      I am a 25 years old male and I have grown up with a transgender father since I was 14. I talk about my father, who underwent reconstructive surgery to fully become a female, still using male terms, because I still see him as a male, and will do so forever. Who he has now become is not the father I knew and want to remember.

      I read through this and have had similar feelings. Especially the feeling of being alone in the world. My parents divorced when I was about 10 years old, and I lived with my mother, although I did see my dad every weekend. But I did start to notice things were becoming different, Then when I was about 14 my dad came to tell me and my older brother (16) that he was going through a transition to become transgender. At the time I had a younger sister (11) and younger brother (9) who were not told until a later stage. So I was left at 14 years old with a huge secret and no one to talk to about any of it, nor understand what was going on. Its not a conversation that anyone that age can really have. I couldn't talk to my older brother, or mother, or anyone.

      It was about then I started to distance myself from not only my father, but also the rest of my family. I would spend a lot of time at friends places, in and out of my house, playing lots of sports and doing anything I could to keep my mind off of everything that was going on with my father.

      I never stopped keeping in touch with my father. I would see him but each time I went it became harder and harder. So what began as weekly visits became rare occasions. I managed to play soccer on the weekends and got into representative soccer so I played on both Saturdays and Sundays, so I could avoid going to see him. It was just the hardest thing to cope with as a child, 14 years old and no one to talk to and feeling so alone.

      I spent the rest of my high school years avoiding topics with friends around transgenders, or feeling uncomfortable when someone mentioned a transgender, or made a joke about a transgender. No one knows about my father being a transgender. If people would ask how he was doing, I would hardly reply, or change the topic. And I still do this now.

      I finished university and went to the other side of world. I tell myself that it is because I wanted to travel, but I know deep down that I am still running away. I can form a relationship with a girl, but doubt I can ever explain this situation to her. Its just something that I can not accept, let alone explain to someone else.

      Added to which I have had more come up in my already challenging life. This year my mother came out as a lesbian, my younger brother gay, and my older brother bisexual. So it seems even more has been added to my already interesting life. Nothing much seems to surprise me anymore. I think how that these changes in my families life may have been affected by having a transgender father. I don't say I blame him, rather just think would things have been any different if he was not transgender. I also think about going home, then I think how I can't.

      I have left all my friends back home to start a new life. Something that I feel that I can cope with. With little connection to what was, I think that it has given me a chance to begin to come to grips with the path that my family follows. Being left at 14 to try accept something like this is hard. Everyone says that you should 'talk to someone' but I know as a 14 year old there is no chance whatsoever of speaking to someone about something like this. You don't want to speak to your parents, friends, family, anyone. You just want to forget and believe that everything will be ok, and it will all disappear somehow. But it doesn't so here I am running away from everything, and its hard to think, this is the happiest I have been in a long time.

      Everyone deals with different situations in different ways. And this is how I came to deal with it. I know people will say 'running away doesn't solve anything', but to those people, I say that you are wrong. Running away is the best thing I have done. To put everything aside and live the most normal life I can. I have had no negative thoughts about what I have done. And as I said, I am happier than ever.

      I still keep in touch with my family, I will email them every so often. But that is about it. The less I keep in touch the more I forget about what is going on with the rest of my family, and I can focus on what I need to do, and how I feel.

      So how I feel right now is like this. I know this sounds harsh but my father will never be my father, he died when the transition began. I gained an auntie that I don't want to see or want to speak with. Life is very lonely because I never want to get too close to anyone, in case they ask questions about my life. I have been told that its hard for a transgendered person, but if you have children then become transgendered then you imediatly push them away. I have a real sense of being unwanted, a mistake, something that was based on a lie. I was conceived as a lie, a cover for what my father has been feeling all his life. This is something that can never be forgiven.

      This is just my perspective of the my life as someone who has a transgender parent. It may not have such a happy ending as other things out there. But it still needs to be heard, because we cant go around thinking that we live in a fairytale world. The truth hurts, but this is something that may happen.

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      childofmadness 4 years ago

      I just got a new touch screen tablet, I appologize about all of my spelling errors above!!! I am mortified!!

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      childofmadness 4 years ago

      o have a fath in his 50's who also had a sex change, and iI have beenlooking for years for a suppoSupportroup for adult children ffof parents who had sexual reassignment surgery. There are no such support groups that I could find, but it is amazing how similar our stories are. I would love to just meet another adult, other than my siblings, who has. Been through many of the same unique challenges I have been through. I will sign back in when ni have more time to tell a little more of my story, and since I just created this account, maybe I will start my own thread!

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      Hi Andrea, I understand completely and you were not offensive at all... I think your decision to transition before children is very mature in attitude....most of my displeasure or really disbelief is the the late transitioner who already has chosen a road with a wife and children... to hurt those closest to us is a real problem for me...

      I have been fighting this for so long, just as I'm sure you have also...I have found some places, that are just never going to disappear... and that could be the apparent reason that some men go on through with the operation... the actual knowing that it may never cease in it's relentlessness to imprint some gender on these fluid could account for those of us trying just one more thing... to try and fend off the inevitable....most of us appear to be just weary from lifes onslaught of never being either male or female.... as if the imprinting of the male gender has been tried so many times and hasn't taken so to speak...that we finally succumb to any change that might give some relief... it might lend itself in some men or in the heart of two spirits and trans, to believe that they might as well try imprinting the other gender, female in MTF trans or male in the case of female to male trans... these individuals might just as soon try to be one as the other... simply because they could not get the original gender... to stay in place...

      as an example ....you can see it in my own life... when I finally find success as a man, or in the tiniest things that are nothing to accomplish for a gendered male... such as cutting the grass or making a business deal seem effortless, the first thing I do is relax in the woman that I believe I am inside... she does seem to have an overwhelming effect on him and she seems to have needs of her own to simply rest and encourage herself. Instead of moving toward the next goal as most gendered males do, she stops him and encourages him just as his mom did when he was just a tiny boy... often the unstable child can hear a sweet voice saying you did good, and in her heart of hearts, she is so glad she could accomplish the task that she actually did it. The rocking back and forth between His effort and her encouragement is the most confusing thing to me... it's as if she already knew how hard the task would be before He... her male side started to try and take on the task... so there is a history that is established early on perhaps that he can not seem to get it right in front of his father... so the father not knowing how sensitive the boy really is... continues down the path of brow beating his most sensitive child into doubt and confusion. Then slowly the boy begins to believe he must be a girl because he couldn't be a boy, because he is nothing like his violent father...

      I know in my own life when I was trying to be the he man in my relationship with my wife... I was just like my father in that my anger surfaced often and was out of control... only after she and I started to live more as friends did the anger start to subside... to live more as a lesbian couple might live... although because I am not nor have ever been a lesbian, I don't really have a basis for that behavior either. I still have the same challenge in that if you never have been a woman... how can you think you are one trapped in a male body... there is no foundational thoughts or knowledge to let one know how a woman would actually feel... are we supposed to believe that we are because we are sensitive and only women are this sensitive... this being said, I believe there is a certain type of boy that fits into the budding trans...your most likely candidates would be those boys that were from... aggressive fathers and submissive mothers, say with a side to the mother like she is great at business, like my mom was... so the confusion is not only on the gender side, where it all starts, but also mixed within the other day to day living of a different type of parenting... the norm stereo types do not apply to the boys parents... like my mom was a much better business person than my dad... so if I want to be good at business, I always think of my mom and never my dad... and if there are ever any uncomfortable moments, I only think of my father because he seemed to be carried away by the very stress of the moment... so as a child once you start to pay attention to your own behaviors , it is not long before you choose the one that is the calm response... which would in my case be... my mom ... or the woman...

      I am interested in how we get here, and I believe in my own case it was that I had a very aggressive father, but he was non aggressive in business and was uneducated, so as I grew older, all the things that I wanted to be, even in business were given to me from my mother... my dad although a hard worker, didn't have the education to know what to work on really... so he eventually ended up working for my mom in a predominantly womens led business....He was a hairdresser... as my mom had become one some years before and had surpassed him in making money... after he had settled into being one though, he was a great worker... but as you can see, there was a very different way for me to grow up... all this while, my mom was still the consumate fifties woman... she was just not a housewife really... he ended up doing the majority of the domestic stuff although she was never dominate in making him do it... I say all of this Andrea to encourage you to do what you know to do...

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      Andrea 5 years ago

      Hi C and Jeanine....I am a male to female transsexual and it is precisely this type of situation that has made me realise that I should transition prior to even thinking of supporting children through childhood and never, ever consider running away from them whilst they grow - for even if they all disown me I will be there on the end of a phone, should they need me. I do see where Jeanine is coming from, in that trans folks can never fully claim to be a member of their target gender - but gender is a spectrum, and even natal women can have consistent male traits - so why do people transition? People transition to seek to control an ever increasing self-hatred of their sex characteristics, meaning that things like baldness, large hands, a deep voice etc. constantly remind an individual of their gender incongruity. This gender dysphoria can lead people to be extremely self-destructive - I recognised that this is no way to raise a family so I am transitioning before I can emotionally harm any children I get a chance to raise. There will be plenty of people who will disagree with this decision - I, myself, wish things could be different for I would have loved to be a Dad and I cannot fully identify with the role of a Mum - but what would you have me do - live life as an agressive, hate-filled and anxiety ridden male who is "doing the traditional thing" or live as the gender I am comfortable with and be able to offer a rich range of experiences to the next generation? A child needs its parents, yes, and I so wish I could be that attentive Dad that everyone loves - for me, this is doomed to failure due to my gender dysphoria and so instead I am resigned to making the childhoods of any kids I raise the best I can possibly can with the cards I've been dealt. Hope I did not offend and please, please be polite in any responses.

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      Jeanine 5 years ago

      Hi C, he is still there so please don't give up on him... he is just in his euphoric stage right now... some never move beyond this dream but offer many of us do... and you are right, he will always be your dad... also you are right in that no one can feel or tell you what you feel like inside, so don't take that from him or his doctors... they are all enamored with one of our tribe trying to embrace the binary system... we were never meant to embrace it but many of us, because of our lack of history, have tried to be one of you... it will not work... we are two living as one and there is a history that most trans do not know... we are from a sec of spiritual leaders called "Two Spirited" people... interesting that Trans is TS and "Two spirited is "TS... but I digress.. look it up or google it... somehow our real history has been hidden or over looked by all those who would help us... doctors, therapist... I think we have had a terrible thing happen to us in that the medical community has been so enamored with finding a way to heal us, that they have over looked who we really are... we are not women... but men who have a fundamental understanding of women... in history we were the therapist... marriage advisers, shamans, and advisers to Kings... and this is for thousands of years, right up to the twentieth century, we were still known in some of the American indian tribes here in the US. HE is the injured party to the Doctors because he is their experiment, so that's why they are only concerned with his feelings... you must get away and never agree to listen to them again... your dad will final come to his senses but it will be to late for him... because they will have convinced him he is a woman and he will have gone through the operations... you are right in that most Trans continue to act like men... after all we have all been practicing those moves for all of our lives... here's the question I finally had to ask myself after years and years of study and having five different therapist tell me I am a woman inside of this man's body, I asked " if I am a woman, what woman would hurt her children on purpose, not one, in fact I would kill any man who tried to harm my children, including the one I live in according to the doctors" there is no genetic female who ever hurts their child on purpose, unless they are mentally sick or off in some way... you are the victim here not him... he has chosen... but in his defense, he has also run him crazy for all of his life, so being men and being of the "git ur done" tribe we all feel the doctor is telling us the truth. So with that being said we generally just want to get on with our lives... the medical community has led us down the wrong path... because they only deal in facts because they are scientist.. they over looked the spiritual side and that's who we are and why we are made this way... there will come a day when we are place back in a position of prominence and these men who changed to women will be known as the pioneers... when that day does come... we will be welcomed as who we are... and be able to live as ourselves instead of being forced to live as either man or woman... so have pity on your day until he can find at least parts of himself to put back together... we are two living as one... always have been and always will be... praying for you dear... so sorry you have had to suffer this pain... write Izettl here ... her email is here somewhere on her profile... she knows exactly how you are feeling...

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      5 years ago

      I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it is incredibly upsetting. I was very much a daddy's girl before he left, I want that even now. To me it does make a difference, I want a normal family a mum, dad and brother I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting that this situation kills me. Unless you are the child I think it's difficult to understand, my father had me to 'test' a normal life, he knew deep down he wasn't capable of living as a man. Please for a second imagine how that feels, it's almost like a rejection.

      Ive met my dad, and asked the questions I've need to and watched him closely. But I cannot accept what he has done, I don't think I will ever be able to address him as 'she' because he regardless of what clothes he wears or the operation he has had to me he will always be my dad and the man I remember as a child. I think it would be easier if he made a convincing women but his nature isn't even slightly feminine, the way he talks and his attitude I just cannot get my head around it.

      I hate that both he and his doctors and therapist try and force me to see things from his point of view, it is always my father who is the injured party in these sessions, it's always about his suffering, his pain, his hurt and confusion. I'm just expected to love and accept him because he's had a difficult time, my feelings don't even come into it.

      I don't know whether to grieve for the dad I've lost or whether somewhere he's still there some way.

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 5 years ago from United States

      I am still trying to figure out myself why family and friends get so upset about someone they know being transgender. I cant understand why a change of cloths and whats between a persons legs makes any difference as long as they still support their family and friends. I know that it is a little more complicated than that but everyone has a huge issue about it. I can understand your point because your dad ran off and left you but most trans get negative reactions even if they stay and take care of their obligations. That I believe is why so many choose to leave. With a new start even though it is hard at first, you learn to forget the past and dont have to be reminded of it each day by family and friends issues with it. Some like myself no matter how difficult it becomes , will stay by my family and friends if they will have me. I have been called selfish for not staying a man for my son,but at least I am going to be there for him and Though he may still resent me, I was there for him. Best wishes with you and your dad.

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      Sara-NtheMiddle 5 years ago from United States

      Gabby, your right, there is never a good time to come out because the issue of someone being transgender brings out a wide range of emotion and usually its bad . Even though there is not a right time, there are better ways and not so better ways and what your dad did by leaving you was the not so good way. Only he knows why he chose that way.

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      5 years ago

      I found out my father had undergone gender reassignment surgery just over 3 years ago. I first read this hub maybe around two years ago after struggling to come to terms with what he had done, but I never found the courage to post, and also because I didn't really know how to put into words how I felt.

      My situation is slightly different in that my dad left when I was around 4 years old, between then and 18 not attempt at contact from him or his family were made. After establishing contact with dads family, to begin with they didn't mention how he was living, it was my grandmother who thought I should know. The night she told me I was just devastated, from the day I realised my dad had left I wished for him to come back, every birthday I'd hope for some contact or maybe even a birthday card but there was never anything. I'd dreamt of my 18th birthday, being reunited with the man my mum had said adored me, she never said much about my dad but one thing she was clear about was how much he loved me. But I could never understand how he could leave me if he really did love me as much as my mum had told me.

      I just remember being so angry and hurt, how could any parent do this to a child was all I could think, and to this day to an extent I still feel this way. I have read so many comments by people who have gender dysphoria discussing how to tell their children, or when is the best time. Personally there is no such thing as a best time, I would be just as hurt been told 15 years from now.

      My father is incredibly selfish about the whole thing, he believes by leaving me and going and starting this new life and cutting me out was what was best for me. Nobody has the right to decide that, it hurts me that I never really knew my dad as a man. The man my mum remembers, the man everybody else remembers but me. I feel cheated, counsellors have told me to grieve for the father I've lost but how is that possible when I didn't even have a chance to get to know him?

      He maintains that he's happy with his new life, but I struggle greatly with this. He's still depressed, and he just seems so angry. It makes me angry that he left to start a better life yet he still isn't happy with what he has. I question whether what he has done is the right thing, he has alienated every single member of our family, lives in squalor and hardly leaves the house. I fail to see how he can justify leaving me and my mum for what he has now, in fact it makes me angry knowing that he's lived this way and is no happier than the day he left.

      I don't think I will ever be able to one to terms with his choices, I can't ever imagine abandoning my daughter and causing her so much heartache. If he had chosen this life style after I'd left home and was settled with my own life maybe I could accept it. But to me his priority should of been his wife and children, when you bring a child into the world you put them first. my father didn't, he was selfish and put his own desires before us. That I will never forgive him for.

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      Gabby 5 years ago

      My own agenda is live and let live. So what if I am read, I take control of the situation and am not ashamed of whom I am. However, the recurring theme is as a post op ts who are no matter how great you pass, tolerated rather than accepted. If you can hang on to your friends, family and career that's a bonus.

      Whilst your father may be old, who even me should tell him how to live his life. If he wants to become a she, then go for it.

      However, transitioning comes with life long challenges, medication, surgery, no surgery, change of records, and being judged.

      I hope that made sense. I do wish him/ her luck in her new self and hope as your father's children you learn to accept him for who he will become a she.

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      Smoke and mirrors 5 years ago

      Izzetl and Jeanine

      It is a strange place I find myself in talking again to people who have shared a similar life experience. To be completely honest I do find some small comfort in the knowledge of some of the shared experiences... I am still at the moment processing exactly why.

      Jeanine, I am heartened by your words and I have tried to reflect on why exactly. Perhaps it is that I sense from you a true desire to understand... If so then I can relate... It is all I ever really search for.

      I think compromise is a common experience for many of us. Child and parent alike constantly at odds over how best to tackle the next challenge presented to us.

      Over time I have started to view my experience as two seperate entities. I spoke previously about the affect of the process being likened to a strong blow and not being in control of the pain receptors... That analogy was true for me many a year ago...

      As time has passed I now see that experience as one that has affected my life... However... I do believe that my personal issues, although linked to these initial experiences can also be tackled as seperate issues. To clarify, I have trust issues... I do not need to use the experience as a sole reference point for continuing to grow and develop on this issue.

      15 years... Izettl... When I first read that this was a potential period for growth on the subject and time to establish clear reflection it resonated with me... It was around this time... All these years after the event that I finally sought Councelling... Throughout all these years I relied on family, friends and my own reading... Ultimately though one can only go so far by themselves.

      I haven't spoke much about my mother here... I thought I might make a reference here to how amazing she has been over these years, even in the face of some absurd challenges. Imagine having a situation where the partner leaves and you become the main support for three teenage boys... One with a disability... Truth be told... He was probably the easiest for my mum to manage.

      Communication is perhaps one of the single most important aspects.... Followed straight on with patience. The whole experience was dropped on me... No warning... No pacing... Just bang! Deal with it... And as the first to know it was time before I was able to speak to others. But at least I was told... My father left it to my mother to tell my youngest brother... I don't under any circumstances feel this is reasonable.

      I have tried at length to rationalize these issues... I find some of the more sticking points almost impossible to move through. As time has passed I have become kinder to myself in that ultimately taking responsibility for all aspects of this process is not entirely my burden to bare... Ironically this is a sibling trait I hold strongly...

      I could write stories here, tell of my transgender parent changing to a woman, picking up a hobby with firearms and later winning best female marksman at a gun club... But I struggle to find how these tales can ultimately be helpful to others. I would feel very confident izettl that your tales could easily rival mine. And in some of these moments I can smile, at the absurdity of some of lifes experiences... A small moment that I claim as mine.

      I am aware that life is relative, for others out there exposed to war, famine, prejudice... In many regards we have it easy... However these are my experiences... With common traits shared by others... And for the first time in a long time I am reminded that us children are not alone.

      J

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      jeanine 5 years ago

      If ya'll will just keep the commentary going I will gladly listen... I am sorry that this happened to the both of you... and must say if I had not found Izettl's comments and hubs, it may have happened to my children... and fate they will never know now thanks to Children just like you... again from the bottom of my heart... I am forever grateful...

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      Lizett 5 years ago from The Great Northwest

      I recently have thought of the outcome I am hoping for and that is raising awareness- if we can have insight into the trans life and mind and they can have insight into the effects on family, then maybe we can bridge a gap somewhere. partially society's issue and lack of acceptance with some of this is the fact that LGBT people are not even accepted by their friends and family sometimes. This is where it starts then that filters into society.

      Also when I originally posted I was hoping somewhere out there someone had a similar experience. Knowing you or we are not alone, puts some of the issues to rest. we've both acknowledged there is a lack of support for those of us in this scenario.

      By you adding to this conversation, others will read it and realize the truth in your words. Thank you for your honesty here. Write any time, all the experiences and info out there is better than the junk currently on this subject. I really encourage your insight because I get more trans comments than family members of a trans.