The Bible says absolutely not, but we are a country about everyone being equal. Where do you stand?
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I agree wholeheartedly. Just like I value the ability to believe what I want and run my home how I want, I think others should have that same right. Thank you for your comments!
Where are your rights infringed upon Jlpark? Are we to believe raging homosexuals are a different species of humans that need special rights? Of course not! What makes you different is your sexual behavior. You're a human who deviates from nature.
Not special rights CJ, equal human rights. For something that is not a choice, we have less rights than you do with religion - something that is Most definitely a choice.
The only place it is wrong - is in your religion - which is not for everyone
Gay people are already free to get married, and can sign papers affording them the same rights by law that straight couples do, so why is there even an argument about gay marriage? The government already recognizes domestic partnerships.
Why was the question asked? Why does it matter how people feel about gay marriage? Questions like this are asked when the author wants a crowd of people screaming on his/her side. "Great Job... You're Right". Opposing views are wrong, tested and ques
So if you were offered a domestic partnership - would you take it? I doubt it. Equal does not mean separate. It does also not mean second rate. Dom Partnerships in the US deny gay people 1138 rights of marriage. Equal? I don't think so
So do you then believe that polygamy should be OK if polygamists stand up and say their are being discriminated against? What about animal lovers who want to marry their dog? Where's the line of what's OK? This why Christians have a problem with it.
Sarah - u didn't answer my question. Dom Partnership good enough for u? Polygamy is legal in some places. Was before bible also. Animals - stupid argument - marriage requires consent. Animals cannot consent. Comparing them is ignorant.
My dear Sara: you are advertising your ignorance. Christian mentality is flawed to the max.
jlpark - my answer is no. So you are saying marriage should be between 2 consenting adults and that's the line. OK. But not ALL people will agree that's where the line should be, just like all people don't agree on gay marriage and many other issues.
So if you wouldn't take a second class form of marriage - why should two consenting adults of the same gender have to? Because we are 'lesser'?
All people don't have to agree. But the law needs to treat people as equals - 2 people = marriage.
What if a man wants to marry his consenting adult granddaughter? No? But he LOVES her! Even if the "marriage" is unnatural and simply illogical, she certainly deserves RIGHTS, right?
Nice. Thanks for your opinions!
I think we can see where your philosophy is wrong MickS. Homosexuals do not want to live their miserable lives in secret...they want your children to partake in their dastardly deeds as well. They want to legislate their sin into the fabric of life.
That is a load of rubbish C J S, that is the fear that all homophobes have, that homosexuals of every stripe want to make everone else into homosexuals, they just want to live in peace like everone else.
Not all homosexuals feel that way, but many have become what I like to call "hetero-intolerant" where they have reversed the judgement (kinda like reverse racism--black people hating white people, etc). They'd love for everyone to be gay.
That's right Sarah, in the same way that there are 'homo-intolerant' heterosexuals who would only be happy if everyone was heterosexual, both ways is bigoted.
Mick S. - My point is that the judgement goes both ways, people judge Christians all the time, and have a negative attitude, without even knowing them. It's no different, it's still discrimination, yet the world doesn't usually recognize it as such.
Sarah - respectfully I ask - so why do Christians insist on making every1 follow their rules & judging those who don't? If Christians r judged so much surely they would realise that judging others isn't nice and not do it to others? Respectfully,
Christians do not say that everyone should follow their bible, although we try to convince others to believe. We only insist upon ideas that make sense, even from an atheist or other non-christian point of view. I am not i homophobe.
I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for your insightful opinions!
Escobana...you seem like a nice lady, but I have a feeling your permissive attitude does not stem from love but from the inability to discern right from wrong. I can love my neighbor, but that doesn't mean I have to have sexual relations with them.
It's true that we should accept and love our fellow humans, because we are all sinners. But that doesn't mean we have to accept their sinful behavior. If I have a friend that's promiscuous, for example, I try guide her away from that behavior.
CJ Sledgehammer..Who are you to judge if my attitude stems from something different than love? Do you KNOW me? I've read ALL your comments. I disagree with ALL of them but I accept you for having them and hope you live a happy and thruthful life.
ignorance and stupidity hiding behind a religious facade does not make it more appropriate. Religious zealots need to stop pushing their agenda on those who are more informed than they are. Judging others is not religions place in our society.
What people obviously do not see is that God intended marriage to be between man and women, for the purposes of love AND to carry on the human race. I am not a homophobic, and being gay is not a sin, but gay "marriage" is not true marriage.
I've been attracted to tons of inappropriate people, but with the encouragement of those I loved, I made better decisions.
There can be no wife without a groom nor can there be a groom without a wife. The Almighty did not give marriage to humanity...He gave it to a man and his wife...period! Weak-minded politicians and debased lawyers gave marriage to everyone else.
Marriage was around a LONG time before Christianity. It may not have be referred to as the same, but it existed. The "almighty' does not have 'dibs' on it, nor does religion.
The world is religion. How could marriage be around before religion? Did you actually read your comment before posting it?
You don't get it. Once the law recognizes it, they will push to force churches to marry Gay couples, otherwise it's considered "discrimination." It's not just about equal rights, it's about forcing everyone to accept the lifestyle as the norm.
Christianity is not the first religion. Pagan religions predate Christianity. Marriage predates christianity.Yes I did read before I posted. Did you brush up on your pre Christian history or just ignore it?
Almighty YHWH condemned homosexuality long before Christ walked on this planet. The laws of God were written in the minds of men from the very beginning. Noah knew these laws coming off the ark. No pagan religion predates Noah.
CJ - ignoring the existence of them does not make them not actually exist. The world existed long before the beginning of Christianity and other religions. Noah is not the be all and end all of the beginning. Only in Christianity
jlpark - that's what you believe. Christians believe in the Bible, as the inspired word of God. And the Bible was written in the stars and passed down orally far before it was written. The secular world only recognizes when it was recorded down.
Sarah, and the Pagan religions predate Christianity. Not necessarily written either. Many of the Christian holy days are based on Pagan rituals/sacred days. Just because Christians believe something, does not necessarily make it true.
I asked you to re-think your comment because God WAS the beginning. He created our Earth and "Christianity," or the belief in Him, with it. Nothing but non-existence existed before that for you or the Earth. Nothing can pre-date God.
And just because your religion states that then it must be true for everyone? Science proves earth is older than Christian lore states. Carbon dating etc.
Your God is not every1s. Each religion states it different. Christianity is not nes correct.
What would you say if your child struggled for years being gay and keeping it secret for fear of rejection? What would you say if your child told you he/she were gay? Would you deny him/her... tell him/her it's wrong?
Please refrain from using the word "choices". This is not a choice, and you cannot attach such a bold faced ignorant statement like this when research and years of studies demonstrate that it is NOT a choice!
Victoria: Keep fighting the good fight!!! As I mentioned earlier, Christ said in Matthew 7:6 - not to give what is holy to dogs or to toss your pearls before pigs, thus Christ made some very profound judgments regarding the condition of these souls.
I'm not sure how I would handle the situation. It's easy for me to see both sides. My husband and I were talking about this last night.
Doctor: Everyone has their own opinions. I don't think that makes one person right or one wrong. Thank you CJ!
People can struggle for years with a secret compulsion or obsession. Just because someone is tempted by an activity or behavior doesn't make it good, decent, natural or healthy. Self restraint and self discipline, therefore, becomes the key.
Here here CJ! I've been attracted to many of the wrong people over the years and was tempted to make tons of bad decisions but I had to decide what was right and wrong for myself.
@ Doctor From what I've been told, sexuality is a sliding scale (meaning it's very rare that someone is 100% gay or straight). Ask any bi-sexual, they change their mind on which sex they prefer based on their "mood." So really, its not a choice?
Suppose it is "possible" for someone to be attracted to his/her own sex. Should he/she force him/herself to be with the opposite sex and live a lie, hiding true feelings? Is that fair to the mate of this person who the other is "trying" to love?
It is dangerous living our lives according to our "feelings" and to appease our desires. Self restraint and self control, in conjunction with good judgment, needs to be employed in everything that we do. Resist Satan and he will flee from you.
I don't have to worry about my own self-control. I can control myself and avoiding "sinning" to the best of my ability. I do not have the Bible memorized and I suppose I sin from time to time. But I cannot presume how others feel, nor can I judge
Exactly - it's not about sex. It's about equal rights.
1) The idea that the earth is overpopulated is a total myth, we just consume too many resources and in a way that's destructive 2) I've never seen the hospital deny anyone from seeing anyone except on T.V. 3) They already have equal rights.
Sarah - being denied hosp visitation rights happens all the time. Just because you've never seen it just means its never happened to you.
No, we don't have equal rights. We are denied 1138 different rights merely because we cannot marry. 4 a start.
Wow...I never knew that homosexuality was not about sex...rather, it's about companionship, equality, love, honor, families, children, freedom, democracy, health, happiness, beauty and the purest expression of the American dream. Thanks guys!!!
CJ S just stole my heart by saying this :D
CJ, 1) U never answered my ? and 2) U blow all this way out of proportion.
lady Guinevere, you are absolutely correct. Thank you so much for your comment and for being a woman of "think" versus "do". So many people do as others say to do or feel as others say to feel and these types of folks do the planet no good.
Does that mean that if one of your children came home and broke the news of their sexual preference, you would be okay with it? What about the effect it would have on your other children? The rest of the family?
"Broke the news"? You break the news that you have a terminal illness or you want a divorce. My children might as well get used to "Gay", it's not going away and I don't want them ignorant. A parent loves their child no matter what, unconditionally.
I appreciate your opinions. Everyone feels a little differently. My new mother-in-law totally disowned her brother and kept him from all 13 of her children for over 20 years. He is just now coming back into the picture.
I'm not trying to be offensive and you're entitled to your opinion as well :-)
What kind of damage do you think could be done to a child that is told that they are wrong for feeling the way they do? Casting them aside?
A great deal of damage, but parents are in place to set boundaries and lead their children in the right direction.
I wouldn't let my children drink or do drugs just because they were expressing themselves. Same goes for tattoos, gang affiliation...
I'm all about guiding my children in the right direction, but I'm not sure that I have the power to convince them who they will love. That's about as crazy as arranged marriages; I couldn't imagine picking my child's life mate.
Funny, but that's common practice in many countries. At one point in history, homosexuality was taboo as well. I'm curious what will be common practice in another 50 years.
it really sounds like VVanNess is trying to say that being gay is a choice - like getting drunk, getting a tattoo or doing drugs. It's not a choice. You do not wake up one morning and decide to be gay. When did you decide who to be attracted to?
That's exactly how I feel. Thank you for defining it so clearly for me. Just like peer pressure encourages and pressures individuals young and old to smoke for the first time cigarettes and other substances, drink for the first time, get tattoos, etc
In 50 years we won't be having this conversations as diversity continues to increase.
If my child told me he/she were gay, I don't believe I could tell him/her to pick something else. Like JMcFarland says, it's not a choice.
being gay is not a matter of peer pressure. It's not something you choose. No one would choose to be treated like a second-class citizen for something that they can't help. Did you ever make a conscious choice to be straight?
Here's one: Why is it that more and more "Christians" are having sex before marriage, especially nowadays? These same people will say the Bible says gay is wrong. Why is the Bible only used when it benefits an argument?
Good point on the sex before marriage. That will make another great question. :) Many Christians do use the Bible hypocritically. My mom is one of them. However, I still think that being a homosexual is a choice just as I made my choice on sexuality.
My biggest gripe is that people contradict their words with their actions. How can you shun someone for not living according to the Bible when you don't yourself. Calling yourself Christian isn't all there is to it. How many people LIVE by the Bible?
why do you think it's a choice? Lets start there.
It's hard replying to both of you at the same time with limited words. :) I think the world is full of hypocrites and no matter how faithful, no one truly LIVES by the Bible completely. The idea is that we are imperfect humans trying to become better
So honestly, being a wedding planner that I see you are... Do you turn away gay couples? Or is their money as good as the straight couples?
JMcFarland, that's a great question. I'll have to think about it. On the wedding planning issue, personally, I do turn away gay couples politely. However, I allow my other planners to make that choice for themselves if they're comfortable.
WanNess - you are avoiding the question - WHEN did you decide on your sexuality? When did you choose to be straight? If you didn't choose - neither did we...why think that we do?
VVanNess, I'm a hetrosexual man. There was no point in my life where I remember (choosing) to be attracted to women. I just "instinctively" went in that direction. I didn't flip a coin. I imagine it's the same for gay people. You love who you love.
What difference does it make who sits at my dinner table? Well, we are defined by the company we keep and we know that bad company corrupts good character. We are ordered to render righteous judgment in all that we do, even choosing our relationships
And that's exactly how I feel CJ! We all make choices in our lives. I had to learn which ones were right for me. When it comes to it, I'll have to be that person for my children as well. That's only one of my many life choices.
jlpark: As for your question "when did you decide on your sexuality" I can answer that. THERE IS NO CHOICE!!! Nature decides for us. The female anatomy is specifically designed to entertain the love of a man. PERIOD! To violate nature is a choice.
Oh CJ why the fixation again? It is natural for me to be attracted to females, not males. So I'm not going against the nature I was given. Your nature is different so to be same sex paired would be against yours.
Serial killers argue that killing is a natural desire, just as pathological liars can't help but to lie, just like alcoholics can't stop the urge to drink. We all have natural weaknesses to sin, for some people it is being gay.
Why does love have to be a weakness? Why do we have to compare love to serial killers, drugs and tattoos. I thought love was love. Isn't love supposed to be beautiful in all forms?
cantu - it's the old 'love thy neighbour as thyself ..... Oh unless of course they're gay' thing.
What they don't realise is judging is up to God - not them. Their judgement of people they don't know is as likely to see them in Hell as me being gay
Too many people run around "claiming" to be Christian, but have their own sinning going on. But it is okay to sin on their own terms. And cast judgment on others. Where in the Bible does it say to judge others? Are we all equal to God?
I don't know, Cat, anyone who goes around arguing with the Word of God may have a God complex and think they know better than the Almighty Himself. If you can find the verse in the Bible where Christ teaches tolerance of sinful behaviors...I'll bite.
OK CJ, then that would leave me with few friends and even fewer acquaintances because I don't know if I can name enough people to fill a hand that engage in NO sinful activity, thoughts or behaviors at some point or other, despite their awareness.
All sin is equal in the eyes of God, according to Bible, and we are all sinners, yes. But, we are suppose to try and avoid sin, not just allow it to run rampant. Nothing is wrong with love, God loves us all, but he hates sin & those who perpetuat
I just saw on T.V. yesterday that in a recent poll of evangelicals in this country 45% actually believe that the earth was created in 7 days - 10,000 years ago. How brainwashed is that?
@ d.william--God's "day" is supposedly a thousand years, and he took the seventh day as a Sabbath, So if this is correct, The creation of the heavens and the earth, and all living things, took six thousand years... not 7 days. I dont have enough room
Xanza - where does it say this? I'd like to read that. (Not just saying - actually would like to read it)
TIME IS A HUMAN INVENTION.
God did not know time. for all we know, it could have taken him 7 trillion million quadrillion years!
If you'll read my post, I gave no opinion, simply posted a controversial issue and asked for others thoughts. But you obviously care deeply about this to respond and leave such a lengthy comment, which I appreciate you sharing.
Way to butcher Scripture, Doc.
It's nice to have another side of the argument on here CJ. Thank you! I've been beat up pretty bad the last couple of days!
Oh, so I guess Sodom and Gomorrah were just fictional places that God didn't choose to destroy because of the rampant sin (including forced homosexual group orgies) going on? So, Lot should have just joined right in? Very interesting.
Sarah - check out what Jesus states as the sin of Sodom. Ezekiel if I remember correctly. Homosexuality had nothing to do with it.
Speaking of Lot - you're ok with his offering his daughters for rape then? Cause that's what you condone if u use Gen.
Law and Religion (in my view) should never intervene..
the concepts of psychology state that if you stop talking about an issue, it may no longer stay in anyone's mind as time passes :)
God never referred it hence. And this goes for vanny 2=CLEAN pls
The word "Homosexual" did not exist in Biblical times, we have created that word.
jlpark - So you don't think that the forced orgies was part of the problem, and that God condones that behavior? It was part of the reason. I'm not saying the ONLY reason. What Lot did was wrong, he was trying to protect the angels in a messed up way
Jude 1:7 records that both Sodom and Gomorrah were "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Sarah - Yada or 'to know' is translated only as 'to know' except for Gen - because of translator bias. Jesus speaks of the sins. But if u use that - u fine with Lot and his daughters incestuous relationship then? Because to ignore is to condone
I already said i wasn't OK with Lot's behavior, so I don't know what you think you are getting at. I'm just explaining the Christian perspective, I'm not a law maker and ultimately it's in their hands. So, don't misjudge me. I'm not ignorant at all.
Yet you are still quite happy to use a verse out of context. It makes sense for the time it was written - in context. Removing it from both historical and verse context shows u only wish to use it to judge. Something that's Gods job not yr.
What if our President were gay? What about your boss, your sibling, or your child? Would you still feel the same way?
You are dead on correct. It is amazing to me that we have evolved to the point that we think that we have the right to even begin to suggest what is right or wrong for anyone. This hubber concerns me in her righteousness. Is she the next Jesus?
Victoria: There is this blight called "gay marriage" because many people no longer subscribe to moral absolutes, hence they consider all things a shade of gray. Because many people are ships without a moral compass and rudder, they are adrift at sea.
VVanNess - It's funny. My 21 year old son and I just had this conversation the other day. I wouldn't have a problem with a gay president, sibling, or child. What difference could that possibly make? I don't get what the issue is. Just me, I guess?
Compliance Doctor: I have not said any negative against anyone. In my original post, I actually stated both sides and asked how you felt. We are encouraged to ask controversial questions to start discussions. If you are not happy, don't participate.
Well, for one, KEPitz, your son will have the life expectancy of someone who lived in the 18th century. You would also have the knowledge that he will never sire a child and his body will become an incubation factory for a host of malicious diseases.
CJ, what diiseases are you talking about? List them please. I think you are talking about AIDS but not sure.
According to statistics I read almost ten years 1 in every 3 Middle School Students has an STD. I don't think that has anything to do with being gay. It is the filth that has become society. How many of them are Christian? I bet a lot.
Lady G. - You've never heard of STD's?
Sarah - straight people are just as likely if not more likely to get STDs. What's your point?
There's consequences for promiscuity, is my point. But there are also medical conditions that occur just from "sodomy" alone. It gets rather gross, actually, so I'll not get into detail there.
If you are going to make statements of facts - provide the source so it can be checked. Also - heterosexuals are just as likely to be promiscuous.are u suggesting that because one is gay they are promiscuous?
Sarah, please don't insult my intelligence. STD's have been around a lot longer that AIDS. Do you know what they are and how many there are? All those who have these or AIDS don' make them all Homosexuals. Source 4 ur info? That is a HI number.
CJ - I know gay people that have lived very long lives. As far as my child producing children - it's not MY life or MY decision to make. It's my child's. As long as my child is happy, I'm happy.
CJ - making statements as though they are fact (life expectancy) needs to have sources provided. Show us where so we may read this information. Or is it merely your opinion? I know many gay people who have lived longer than straight counterparts
So, Wan, do you really believe that CJ is offering any intelligent conversation? If that person is an example of what is in 'heaven' i will certainly opt for the opposite. Would not want to hear that crap for an eternity.
Don't worry then d.william. It doesn't sounds like you'll have to. All of you ask for "proof" on our side, but can you honestly provide documented proof on yours? And when we do, you'll just shoot it down. There's no debate on your side, only judging
Vvannes - the burden of proof in this situation is on CJ for claiming something such as life expectancy as fact - 18th Cent length? Show me where. Proof from our side - look around - plenty of elderly gay people about - speaks for itself.
I sincerely appreciate your opinions, but have to disagree with all of that. "and should have no legitimate influence on anyone's personal life" is a judgment about religion just as others judge those that are homosexual. Everyone has their opinions.
the difference being my "opinions" are based on logic, reality, and common sense - religious "opinions" are not.
That's a very narrow-minded way of thinking. You talk about judgement and equality, but then you dismiss my opinions as worthless because you don't believe they are as good as yours. How very hypocritical of you. "We have no business judging others"
Are you judging gay people based on your religious beliefs?
d.william is correct in that personal opinion should not deny the rights of other people. No one denies another their CHOICE of religion, yet we are denied rights on something we do not Choose. Because of opinion. It's unequal, and unlawful.
No comment I have ever made has judged anyone one way or the other. I know what I'm currently comfortable with and that's my choice, but never have I treated anyone badly for any difference or interest they might have in life. I choose not to judge.
VVanNess, Life is a (personal) journey. Like it or not in a free society parents don't get to choose their children's mate. As for siblings being "exposed" to gay people: Gay people come from (straight) parents! Sexual orientation isn't contagious.
dashingscorpio: I understand your point of view. Thank you. That's what I'm trying to accomplish by asking controversial questions.
Some people think it's Ok to lie, some that it's OK to kill, even. Those are opinions, yet they are also laws. Our laws are based on morals, otherwise their would be no law. Religion is based on morals, therefore there is a connection between the 2.
That's fair. What about those that have to make a decision about a child being gay or a sibling? Do you expose your family to that? Do you allow your children to go that direction?
In Matthew 7:1-5 Christ is talking about hypocrisy...but He is not talking about forsaking righteous judgment because right after these verses He says, "Don't give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs." Gee, I wonder who the pigs are?
the old saying: ''ignorance is bliss'' is true 4 most religious zealots. The unholy bible has caused more problems than it has ever solved. U fault others 4 wanting equality, yet preach unfounded hatred UR self.
As usual, D.W., your comments are way off the mark and are just as biased and prejudiced as those you rail against. "Equality" is a fool's paradise. Not all behaviors, people, or opinions are equal. Some behaviors are healthy while others are not.
CJ: it is nice to see you still are ignorance personified. Evil mindedness never changes does it?
What you just called CJ, you actually are. How has anything that he has said evil in any way? Humans have caused problems, not the Bible itself. Stop blaming the tool, humans are accountable for their actions. Greed and lust for power is destructive.
Then stop hiding behind a holy book. Take responsibility for your own opinions and even ignorance and stop standing behind 'but the bible says.'
If you don't like gay people - don't blame God for your hatred, it's not His fault
How am I ignorant on homosexuality, Jlpark? Please teach me about all the virtues associated with sodomy and the oral fixations of your kind. Please tell me how this world will be a better place if we all gave in to our evil urges and desires.
Where do I start? You are ignorant of the fact that anal sex and oral sex are sexual practices enjoyed by many heterosexual couples. Not are gay relationships based on sex. Those who think that are against it, & thinking 2 much abt sex lifes of o
I don't hate gay people, I love them like any human. I hate sin. I hate people trying to perpetuate sin and twist it to try and make it seem like it's not a sin. Gay ppl can't have sex without it being sodomy so you can't compare to straight couples.
@ CJ - Just give up arguing with jlpark, as you referred to before in the Bible, it advises us not to "cast our pearls before swine." Your breath is being wasted on them.
Name calling now? CJ asked so I told him.
I'm curious though - why are people who dislike gay marriage thinking so much about gays and sexual practices. If u don't like it - don't think abt it. But yet u think on it so much u judge us. Issues much?
sara: your misguided righteous is overwhelming. Not everyone thinks the bible is truth. It is nothing but religious propaganda. It is OK to quote it, but not OK to rebuke it. You need to learn where it came from.
What I also find disturbing is the LACK of knowledge of the context, and history of the verses used to condemn homosexuals by Christians. Thats the ignorance that disturbs me. The history and context explain why such verses were needed THEN, not NOW.
I am disturbed by your lack of knowledge about the context and history of the Bible. Most who reject it and simply scared of the consequences of their actions and on a bigger picture than themselves. God doesn't have to be scary.
I'm not misguided, don't proclaim to know me. I'm also not forcing you to agree with anything I say, I'm merely expressing my beliefs and the beliefs of other Christians, explaining the perspective. You can believe whatever you want or choose to.
VVaness - if u mean me - the intricisies of some of it - sure. However, I know the historical & verse context of the verses used here v well.
In context they make sense. Use out of context they show ignorance & a misuse of bible for division