Conversation with A Charismatic
Conversation with A Charismatic
As part of my Internet ministry of the gospel, I am in the habit of sending quotations for people to ponder over. I sent this quote to a few people; this is how a lady responded:
Roland: "We never tire for the need of love." ~ Neil Strait.
Barbara (misunderstands): No, we were created for love.
[I thought I should put it across in another way. So I said:]
Roland: We cannot love unless we are first filled with His love.
Barbara: This is true. Very true.
Roland (trying to explain the original quote): Neil Strait says, We need love. We need to love. Love is the key. That's what he means.
Barbara: Yes, it is.
Roland: Love is the key. 1 Corinthians 13.
Barbara: Without love we are nothing but a clanging brass cymbal, making a lot of noise and having no effect. Love is the key. We have to reach the Lord, and the only way we can is by showing His love, not talking about it; and the only way we can show it is by having a personal relationship with Him. Reach the lost.
Roland (trying to find out her Christian background): Do you have a testimony of how you were born again? How the Lord came into your life?
Barbara: I do.
Roland: Is it on the Net?
Barbara: I had put it on my computer. I think it got lost when my computer was hacked. I need to see. I haven’t gone through everything. But you can go to my info page. There is a brief testimony.
Roland (explaining why he would like to hear her testimony): I ask this, because it does help to know that you were born again on a particular date/time. Most people have vague feelings...but coming to the Lord, or the Lord coming into your life is a (Historical) Fact (therefore, there will be a date/time period).
Barbara: I was born again on April 3, 1988. I remember that day well. I first remember Jesus when I was 3. We were singing Jesus loves me and I felt the Holy Spirit. I remember it well. And I asked him into my heart at age 8.
Roland: There must be a time when you were in your teens or older when you committed your life to Christ.
Barbara: Yes, when I was 13. I was at a David Wilkerson Conference. Shortly after I was ‘jumped’ by four boys and felt shamed and thought Jesus had left me.
Roland: Okay...Is there a time when you surrendered to the Lord?
Barbara: Yes. April 3, 1988. Total surrender. But as you know.. we surrender, but it is still a process. There are years of junk to eliminate. Why do you ask?
Roland: I ask this because many people say they are born again, but they don't remember how the Lord came into their life. We know the date of our physical birth. So also there is a time (not an exact date, really) for our spiritual birth.
Barbara: Oh I remember well.
Roland: And I ask because there is also a time when we truly SURRENDER to the Lord
Barbara: I was robbed at gunpoint. My husband was an alcoholic and we were ready to break up. I had a miscarriage with our third child. And then I was pregnant again. I remember well. It was Easter Sunday.
Roland: Yes...go on.
Barbara: A woman was singing in tongues. First time I had ever heard tongues and I was hit with the Holy Spirit. I was never the same after that. I was baptized in water, and two weeks later baptized with the Holy Spirit. And there were many trials and testings.
Roland: Singing in tongues?
Barbara: Yes.. in the spirit.
Roland: Did you understand what she was singing about?
Barbara: It was a very beautiful song and she had the interpretation. It was a call to come to the Lord.
Roland: Isn't it better to sing a hymn so that you can understand better. Sometimes tongues can be so strange and eerie.
Barbara: Hymns can be religious. I prefer songs from the Lord himself. They are beautiful and healing.
Roland: Well, Paul says it is better to UNDERSTAND. (1 Corinthians 14:14-19)
(Continues...) The Bible is a huge book...and there is so MUCH of God's word...(Meaning to say, Why can’t you focus on God’s word, instead of dabbling in ‘tongues’?)
Barbara: Tongues are a holy language and they have helped me many times when I did not know how to pray. Tongues have their purpose, if used correctly.
Roland: There is a lot of confusion (in tongues).
(Continues...) God's word is so VAST, there is really no need for TONGUES, don’t you think?
Barbara: I disagree. I think that those who are afraid of them are afraid to surrender totally . Since our tongue is able to kill, steal and destroy. To surrender our tongue to the Lord is total surrender, I think.
Roland: Don’t you think we should READ the word of God...and listen to His voice?
So much of tongues can be babble you know. It can be dangerous ground, because even evil spirits can masquerade through tongues.
Barbara: I do read the word and listen to his voice... all the time.
Roland: We read....but don't you think we need GRACE to obey...we live by GRACE.
Barbara: If the Spirit of God is in us .. we will know what is and what is not of God. There is a difference.
Roland: The Spirit of God and the Word of God go together. Lots of charismatics are MISLED by tongues...Benny Hinn, Todd Bentley, etc.
Barbara: They are not misled by tongues. That is not what misleads them .. It is pride;
it always comes before a fall. And sin...not tongues!
Roland: Man is to LIVE BY THE WORD OF GOD...Matt 4.4., Luke 4.4.
Barbara: Yes... and tongues are a part of the word. (You can see how she is confused; there is a world of difference between the (written) Word of God, and the babble of noises they call 'tongues'.)
Roland: Unfortunately, lots and lots of people are carried away by tongues and visions and healings...don't you think?
Barbara: And many want to deny it.
Roland: I don't think tongues are part of the Word.
Barbara (disagrees): No, I do not.
Roland: The word of God is SUPREME. Often tongues run counter to God's word...you cannot add to God's word.
Barbara: In theory or fact?
Roland: You CANNOT add to God's word...read Revelation. (22:18-19)
Barbara: How do you know that one is adding to God's word.
Roland: Lots of charismatics make false prophecies. And lots of tongues are sheer gibberish.
Barbara: Not all are. I think it is judgemental to make that statement. I use tongues for prayer and worship.
Roland: We are to judge spiritually, and by God's word. There is SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT.
Barbara: You have no understanding, brother.
Roland: It is because of my understanding, that I am telling you these things. I know the truth hurts. I know the Word of God condemns a lot of things that the charismatics do.
Barbara: I am not convinced. I know who my Lord is and He talks to me all the time.
Roland: Does He talk to you through the 'spirit' or through His clear Word?
Barbara: And you are denying the power of God . Both. I am going now. I will talk to you later.
Roland: I know the Word of God...and I know that today's tongues are condemned....May you come to know the truth soon...Goodbye.
(I thought the conversation ended here, but I found that...)
[Barbara (later to her group of friends & followers): I was asked if I felt tongues were still for today .. Most definitely! More now than ever. I was told that it was not in the word. There are several references to tongues in the word. I was asked about healings and visions. It is also in the word that these things would come in the last days. The enemy is slick.. he knows the word too. But we must know it as well. Do not be deceived. The Python Spirit is out trying to kill off those who prophecy and are full of the spirit. We must be wise as serpents and meek as a dove.]
Afterwards, she sent me another message:
Barbara: Give me the scriptures to back that up. (And then she added...) We can know the word of God and not know Jesus. Satan knows the word of God. When we pray in the spirit it is a language that the enemy cannot understand. (There is no Biblical basis for this statement.) That is why it is so important. And I pray that the Lord would reveal the truth to you . We have too much to do to be debating about whether tongues are for today or not. We have souls to win. Whatever way the Lord leads us to do that, that is our great commission; and it will not be done in our own understanding but by the power of God and many will be deceived. Many will deny the power of God and the gifts. *Many are called and few are chosen. It is by faith that we receive these things. If the Spirit of God is dwelling within us .. we will know the *Father's voice. (*My sheep hear my voice).
And furthermore, if *Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.. why would tongues change? It (tongues) is still for today .. His spirit has not left us. He said that *he was going to prepare a place for us and that *he would send the comforter who would lead us into all truth. If you have never experienced tongues for yourself, then I can understand your lack of belief. Do as I did and ask the Lord to show you if it is real or not. When I received mine, I asked him to take it away if it was not of Him. I was a totally yielded vessel of the Lord, then as I am now. I still have my tongues. (The last 6 asterisks * show that she is misapplying familiar Bible verses to back up her belief in 'tongues'.)
Just because we don't have something or don't understand something does not mean it is not of GOD. Tongues are not eery (eerie)... unless the tongues you have heard were not of God. They have always been beautiful to me and full of the Holy Spirit. (Yes, tongues are always beautiful to those who are ignorant and confused about God's word.)
(But she was not satisfied with all this and gave me a plethora of Scriptures. Mark 16:16-18. Acts 2:3. Acts 2:4. Acts 19:6. 1 Corinthians 12:28. 1 Corinthians 13:1. 1 Corinthians 14:5. 1 Corinthians 13:8. 1 Corinthians 14:6. 1 Corinthians 14:22. 1 Corinthians 14:23. 1 Cor 14:39. 1 Cor 14:38-40. Revelation 7:9. Rev 10:10-11. Rev 17:14-16. )
(Again she made a remark: )
May you understand that tongues are in the word of God and that they are still for today, as God never changes. And I pray that the Lord will give you better understanding of what you are reading. It also states in the Word that sons and daughters would have visions and old men would dream dreams. As well as we are commissioned (to obey) Luke 4:17-20.
I am looking forward to hearing your reply to these Brother Roland.
(I didn't attempt to send a reply to all her remarks and Bible verses. I could see that she was terribly confused about 'tongues'. Her understanding of God's word was very poor. She just picked up a concordance and gave all the references to tongues that she could find, including those critical of tongues. And some that had no connection with tongues - at least, the kind of 'tongues' (glossolalia) that she was in the habit of indulging. I checked out her page and found that she had dreams and visions, too. I thought it best to terminate our FB relationship. I observed her reference to a certain 'Python spirit', which showed that this lady was really deep into a 'third-wave' charismatic cult!)
©Pratonix/ Roland N Oliver