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Eric's Sunday Sermon; Of Contentiousness and How Love Would Have You act

Updated on September 10, 2016

When he was very young....

I took the boy to churches. Not to start him out on dogma and doctrine, but to expose him and make him comfortable with matters of the spirit.
I took the boy to churches. Not to start him out on dogma and doctrine, but to expose him and make him comfortable with matters of the spirit. | Source

Contentious and lacking deliberation

Let us start out with something fun. There is a place where differing views are really really important. The ability to express them and be heard is very critical. People are actually put in a room to decide the fate of other citizens. Multiple folks getting together to humanly judge another. Deliberations.

Truly this actually precedes the time of the Pharaohs. Probably existed to some degree in actual caveman society. Great minds like Alexander the Great, Socrates, Plato, Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, Geronimo, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln, many many kings and presidents all dealt with it and helped in developing methods to make it better. And in this wonderful experiment known as democracy the common man has even had a say in how it works. Perhaps we could liken it to consensus building.

The best examples we have of it today, believe it or not, is in the U.S.A. legislature and in U.S.A. courts of law. Far from being perfect and still in development we hope. An interesting fact here is that the process seldom benefits from the tearing down of opposing positions or personalities. Although as in all things social it is regrettably present.

So we look at two portions of how a jury is instructed to carry out this critical task. The first one shall be regarding matters of civil disputes and the second on matters of criminal disputes, sometimes even life and death.

We are looking at these because it would appear that we are at a point where society has given everyone a public forum via the internet. And at a time when information is overwhelmingly available. And at such a time when we are faced with real choices regarding religion and politics. To be snobby about it we can see that the openness of discourse at least in most Western countries has allowed folks who have not studied or even given much thought to in depth discourse to publicly air opinions on matters beyond their grasp. The guy who goes to church once a week and nothing more and the guy who only knows politics from their favorite cable news “show”, now get to be self-made pundits.

We are contentious and lack deliberation.

Instructions for life?

Here is a part of a civil instruction given to jurors as the embark on their deliberations: When you go to the jury room, the first thing you should do is choose a presiding juror. The presiding juror should see to it that your discussions are orderly and that everyone has a fair chance to be heard.

California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) 5009. Predeliberation Instructions

“It is your duty to talk with one another in the jury room and to consider the views of all the jurors. Each of you must decide the case for yourself, but only after you have considered the evidence with the other members of the jury. Feel free to change your mind if you are convinced that your position should be different. You should all try to agree. But do not give up your honest beliefs just because the others think differently.

Please do not state your opinions too strongly at the beginning of your deliberations. Also, do not immediately announce how you plan to vote. Keep an open mind so that you and your fellow jurors can easily share ideas about the case. “

Pretty cool isn’t it? Shouldn’t we follow the wisdom of centuries of fine tuning and contribution by great minds? Imagine if everyone actually followed these instructions in the day to day. Call me crazy but this is fully compatible with Biblical teachings.

I deliberately pay attention to nature's bounty
I deliberately pay attention to nature's bounty | Source

Hey are you old enough to remember when people had to fight for their right to live free in their minds? Hooray for the love patriots.

Rush to judgment?

How about the similar criminal case instruction? Let us have a look. This is where the unanimous decision of the jury can actually decide life or death of a fellow citizen. I will put some of it here.

Criminal Law 3550. Pre-Deliberation Instructions

“When you go to the jury room, the first thing you should do is choose a foreperson. The foreperson should see to it that your discussions are carried on in an organized way and that everyone has a fair chance to be heard.

It is your duty to talk with one another and to deliberate in the jury room. You should try to agree on a verdict if you can. Each of you must decide the case for yourself, but only after you have discussed the evidence with the other jurors. Do not hesitate to change your mind if you become convinced that you are wrong. But do not change your mind just because other jurors disagree with you.

Keep an open mind and openly exchange your thoughts and ideas about this case. Stating your opinions too strongly at the beginning or immediately announcing how you plan to vote may interfere with an open discussion. Please treat one another courteously. Your role is to be an impartial judge of the facts, not to act as an advocate for one side or the other.”

I hope you noticed that the gravamen and importance of a decision does not really change the overall concept of appropriate deliberations.

Could it be the same for husband and wife, two children in first grade, and how about religion and politics on Facebook? What would happen if man would apply these principals in all their affairs?

I woke in the morning and jumped to the conclusion that I could not climb this.

But with an open mind I started and made it.
But with an open mind I started and made it. | Source

Is it; pass on judging or passing judgment?

Well now just go ahead and throw into this recipe the ingredient of Love. Well we now have an issue. That doggone notion of “judge not lest ye be judged”. Sorry but that is impossible for man to do by himself. And now mix in a great admonition regarding what love is.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (NKJV)

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

A great big family -- related by love

Our choice

Well that is a lot of quoting and citing other stuff. But I just think it is so darned interesting.

Let me relate a little bit about picking the folks that fill the role of juror. There was a time in this writer’s life when he made a living out of consulting with trial attorneys regarding the picking of a juror. At my peak I had ten hung juries in a row. That would mean that the jury could not decide innocence or guilt. Believe me I was not retained on defensible cases from a factual and legal perspective. Above all my goal was to pick two or more people that would never agree with each other, no matter the facts. So after hundreds if not thousands of hour of practice and study there was a rather simple in theory reality. Just by watching body language and other natural facts about a person, one can see in someone the natural tendency to not follow the above instructions. Forget about people with different views, those can change. Forget about things like age, occupation, gender, race or creed. Nope it is as simple as picking out a personality trait. There are people that do two things; Conclude prior to investigation and tell others what to think as they know they are right. You put two or more people like that on a jury and they will never ever unanimously agree.

Perhaps this teaches us something about people in general. Indeed it teaches us something about ourselves. For each of us have a bit of that trait within us. When our position becomes the goal, rather than how we reach it by living our lives – we can find ourselves in trouble. When Love becomes our goal we seldom lead ourselves astray.

A strange thought

In my writing I give the glory for the good things to God. But I do not and can not claim that any of my writing is the word of God. Interesting - of God and yet not of God.

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    • Mel Carriere profile image

      Mel Carriere 7 months ago from San Diego California

      As a self-appointed pundit, I do not share the presiding barrister's enthusiasm for our system of justice. Maybe counsel has slyly expressed his own faltering faith in it by relating his own jury-picking experiences.

      The fact that a man or woman's guilt or innocence can be decided simply by selecting a contentious person for a jury means that we have a long way to go. Having been a part of two juries, I have also seen that people's faith in law enforcement approaches the worshipful, a factor that makes it damn hard for the accused to get a fair trial. On the other hand, both sides get a chance to add or remove jurors, and when you think about it, what can we do that is better?

      We can go on all day about how an innocent man was convicted and how a supposedly guilty man walked free because of jury manipulation - such as OJ Simpson (Johnny Cochran was a master of jury selection), but I don't think that's your point.

      Perhaps the point is that, like the old song says, There will never be any peace until God is seated at the conference table. The same thing applies to justice. We are flawed, feeble monkeys.

      Great sermon, as always. I see you are in a legal mood, since you have been busy writing your legal briefs. My decidedly unlegal briefs require lots of Chlorox in the wash.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Mel, it is just about like everything American. Complain about gov. then go to Saudi Arabia. Complain about the USPS then go to Mexico. Complain about our Justice system then go just about anywhere. Complain about how our minorities are treated then go visit the caste system in India. Complain about our police and visit China.

      Not at all saying we cannot improve the best is still the best. I like your quote about God being at the table. I don't think we are referring to a dude with a white robe and gavel, but more about what is in our hearts.

      On that jury picking stuff. One time I was trying a murder case out in El Centro. The DA was gnarly. I filed what was called a Wheeler motion. The bastard was systematically challenging every minority juror. I won it and the DA got censored so to speak.

      Yep it ain't pretty watching sausage get made.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Norine, we have been through this too many times -- rewrite your comment without screaming. I told you I am old school. In the 90's we came up with rules of netiquette and all caps is screaming and not appropriate.

    • Mel Carriere profile image

      Mel Carriere 7 months ago from San Diego California

      I agree with your points. We're still better than everybody else but if we get complacent about it next thing you know we're Saudi Arabia. I wish you would write some hubs about your Perry Mason days. Not that I don't enjoy your sermons. Your philosophy has no parallel anywhere else. Exclusive of creed or denomination, God is an ideal of perfection toward which we strive, as you have suggested.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      So right on Mel!! Hey I confess my own worse two personal demons are sloth and complacency. No matter the righteousness or unrighteousness of the cause those who act trample those that do not.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Norine -- take your fanaticism elsewhere -- I here they have great openings in Syria.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I have no idea why you shouted and screamed in your latest comment. Perhaps it is funny attached to this hub. But in a sad way.

    • manatita44 profile image

      manatita44 7 months ago from london

      A very interesting sermon, but may take a while to bear fruit for some of us. I do not know that we can see the Love when the Heart is hard and sight blind. But hey, I'm all for trying. Clever write.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Manatita, it is good of you to come by. This is one of those "progress not perfection" deals. It is a good thing to strive for.

    • Carb Diva profile image

      Linda Lum 7 months ago from Washington State, USA

      Eric, long ago on a far-away planet, I worked for the Federal government. One day, a new District Chief came on board, a fresh-out-of-management-school type. Although we were a scientific/research division, he thought he had all of the answers to our problems. He sent the middle-management team to what we not-so-lovingly called "charm school" where we learned about paradigm shifts, etc.

      {{GROAN}} -- (by the way, screaming is appropriate here).

      I say all of this because whether we want to admit it or not, pre-judging is in our DNA. Am I (full disclosure here) the only person on the planet who passes individuals on the street, in the bus, etc. and makes mental notes of their appearance? (For example, "wow, did she look in the mirror before she walked out the door wearing that?" "does he think his hair looks good that way?" or "what in the world do they see in each other?!")

      Even though it's wrong, we make judgments, assessments all of the time.

      That's what I was thinking as I read this, and then you hit me smack between the eyes with your words "When our position becomes the goal, rather than how we reach it by living our lives – we can find ourselves in trouble. When Love becomes our goal we seldom lead ourselves astray."

      Love (once again) corrects us, leads us, directs us. Love conquers all.

    • JG Hemlock profile image

      JG Hemlock 7 months ago from VISIONS AND DREAMS

      The full truth is never brought into the Jury room. (if it were just that easy right?) The jury room is similar to scriptures. We only know in part. Those who 'know it all' are strangely the ones who actually know nothing. (everyone knows it but them.) Only small bits and pieces of truth are in the jury room, and each person grasps a sliver of truth, but only with the ability that they have to actually perceive truth. (some people should never be on the jury.) An open mind will serve a person well while searching for the truth. With truth, we must sift through purposeful lies, unintentional fibs, and sheer fabrications which are thrown into the mix. Let's not forget that there will always be truth omitted by those who have hidden agendas to win at all costs, regardless that an innocent person may get the death penalty, or even sit their entire life in a jail cell. They don't care. They only care to be 'right' in their wrongness. It is best to listen to all the jurors and chew on things quietly...sometimes chewing a long time. Swallow what is good and spit out the grizzle. Things that we thought were true yesterday, may actually turn out to be lies today. Things that we thought were lies yesterday, may actually turn out to be truth today. The truth is relative to where a person is standing.

      btw...is that Sedona in the photograph? If it is...I woke up and attempted to climb it. I got 4-6 feet from the very top but couldn't finish the climb. Did I fail or was I successful? Depends on the heart of the climber right?

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Linda you are killing me in a good way! My favorites are "obviously that dude ain't got no momma or wife", "Do you figure that guy even owns an iron?" "a skunk would die for that odor". But usually the silly judgments are replaced by "give me a hug" or the like. I ain't never met a man who has been more disheveled, wrinkles and dirty as I have been. Maybe I will write about my young stint shoveling out stalls at the county fair.

      My love and prayers are going out to you and your extended family. You are in a tough spot of letting go and letting God.

    • MsDora profile image

      Dora Isaac Weithers 7 months ago from The Caribbean

      Eric, that strange thought at your conclusion proves that you are not delusional. You have the freedom to express what you think without wanting to say that God told you to say it. Just had to respond to that. Anyway, thanks for discussing this matter of contentiousness. Difficult to deal with, especially among jurors.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      JG, first let me compliment you on your sharp eye. The Sedona area redrocks are known as the Schnebly Hill formation. They are a unique lens of what is called the Supai Group. The Supai is most known for its exposure in the Grand Canyon -- and that is what you see here. On the first of Oct. I will be climbing in and around the actual place called Schnebly hill where I grew up.

      Now let me compliment you on your sharp mind. These vagaries we call facts and truth are nebulous at best. For instance in a murder trial you probably cannot bring up the fact that the defendant has been convicted of murder twice before. That would be such a strong fact that no other facts might be considered. And we all watch enough cop shows to know that a truthful statement made before the "rights" are given is normally not admissible. In some real bad cases we waive a jury because reasonable people would crucify, where as a judge sees it all the time.

      This is a great statement: "Things that we thought were true yesterday, may actually turn out to be lies today. Things that we thought were lies yesterday, may actually turn out to be truth today. "

    • threekeys profile image

      ThreeKeys 7 months ago from Australia

      A interesting hub for me Eric. Especially the lines Carb Diva quoted of yours in her last couple of paragraphs. And yes I now think it can be so that "things that we thought were true yesterday, may actually turn out to be lies today. Things that we thought were lies yesterday, may actually turn out to be truth today"...

      I really would enjoy reading more of your hubs along these lines Eric even though the stories within your sermons can catch your attention.

    • whonunuwho profile image

      whonunuwho 7 months ago from United States

      Eric I like your attitude and what you have to say in this message. Well done my friend. whonu

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Dora I must admit that week ago or so, about your 5 things article I called my son to my side and kind of went through the concepts. He acted like he was paying attention. But at the end he just asked if your name was like Adore. I told him of course and sent him on his way to fight dragons.

      I reckon we are all part of the human jury of man. We each have our place. And the really cool thing is -- we can rest assured that we are not the final judge.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      ThreeKeys -- I would love to know your given name. It has been an absolute pleasure/treasure getting to know you. Oh my how we might disagree and how pleasant to explore that with you.

      Your wish is my command I shall get back to my series on Federal Rules of Evidence and how they are thought for life. Your being here is support enough to raise my spirit.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Clive my eldest brother just snail mailed me and told me clear that "there are no good brothers and there are not bad brothers, there are only brothers" thanks for being a bro.

    • profile image

      Norine Williams 7 months ago

      Have you noticed your "audience?" MOST are LOST IN RELIGION as you! WORD does not LIE! Ps 119:63 "Birds of a feather flock together!" If it's ONE THING you all have in common, you don't believe John 4:23-24 "MUST" worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH!"

      GOD TOLD ME TO SAY THIS TOO, Ms.Dora as HE told me about you and you continue to PROVE it! Throwing rocks and hiding hand in the name of RELIGION! GOD SEES!

      LORD HAVE MERCY!

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Whonu, you are really knocking home runs out of the park lately. Just downright obvious connections to a higher place and space of living. I am honored you grace me and my friends here in our fight to learn more.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Norine I left that one in here. Totally rude and obnoxious and mean claiming to be on behalf of a loving God. Here we know Love is God and here we know you are the Antichrist of love. Thanks for the warning.

    • JG Hemlock profile image

      JG Hemlock 7 months ago from VISIONS AND DREAMS

      Norine...You seriously have mental illness and you are a liar. A pretend prophet with an Anti-Christ spirit who just got caught lying. You have been 'marked' and not one to take seriously nor feared.

      Eric...I know you could not have "Established" this wicked woman...there is no way that you did. Norine has been caught lying and she proclaimed that YOU established her as a "Prophet." Humor me. Did you?

      Norine Williams 5 months ago

      Has your "anointing" been "established" by others (besides your husband)? Matthew 18:16, Deuteronomy 19:16 and II Corinthians 13:1 says {paraphrasing} "Where there are two or three witnesses the word ("prophet") is "established!" Have you been "established?"

      GOD has established me on HP (If truth be told, ask Eric D. and Rich K.) and has shown others HIS WORKS through me daily!

      When you "delete" what we are "chosen" to do (save souls) rather than ask for what you were "commanded" to do ("Study" to find what is written re: "40 days" (II Timothy 2:15) and "teach" (Matthew 28:19) "rightly divided WORD and not "my belief,") you "defy" Scripture!!!

      Again, I ask, What kind of "prophet" are you?

    • JG Hemlock profile image

      JG Hemlock 7 months ago from VISIONS AND DREAMS

      Eric, who is Rich K? I would like to see if Norine is lying again, and if Rich K 'established' her (as she has claimed you both established her as a Prophet of God.)Norine left me this comment below as well. (The Holy Spirit does not lie but sombody doth has the counterfeith Anti-Spirit indwelling insideth them and they lieth much.)

      Norine Williams 4 months ago

      Continue to "Walk in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16)! MOST are not aware of the "Spiritual Realm" and don't appreciate the knowledge you have! They continue to evade TRUTH in HIS WORD! Great HUBS!!!

      For a prophet with this supposed Holy Spirit of God inside, they sure do flip flop on words, lies much, and quite confused on just about everything they say to people day to day. Interesting and a quite an 'unsound' HS going on there. First I have great knowledge and now I am a Satan Kool-aid sipper. I am sorry but I have to laugh and I have to ask, using your own words, "Again, I ask, What kind of "prophet" are you?"

      You want scripture dear?

      "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.…"

      'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'

      Norine, you have a mind that is not sound and God has not sent you to speak anywhere, nor to anybody. He has not commanded you to speak, and you have been caught speaking lies to others, of others, and you do not speak in love. Remember...."The Prophet shall die." Take this seriously.

    • Mel Carriere profile image

      Mel Carriere 7 months ago from San Diego California

      It's too bad Eric, that your tremendously uplifting and inspiring sermons have turned into forums for Pharisees. Your peeps got your back, bro. I know you will continue to crank them out because you are a man on a mission.

    • Jodah profile image

      John Hansen 7 months ago from Queensland Australia

      Eric, I have only been called up for jury duty once and was looking forward to the experience, but it was cancelled. I know others who have been selected three or four times. I am sure I would be unable to compromise my own belief of guilty or innocent whether it agree with the majority or not. Very interesting sermon.

    • ahorseback profile image

      ahorseback 7 months ago

      Eric , awesome my friend , perhaps todays biggest social issue is the lack of deliberation in life itself , everyone wants THEIR way to be THE way . You nailed it again though , we have to engage the brain before we engage vocal chords . Like you are doing with "The Boy " introducing him to structured spirituality in order to introduce him to spirit itself . I am glad that you know well how to deal with those who defy reason , that makes you more reasonable than them , always . You incite thought in a manner worthy of the best ! Now , darn it , if we can just get them too think !...........:-]

    • ahorseback profile image

      ahorseback 7 months ago

      Norine , I would suggest that instead of using your 'God whip' on us , you may try becoming enlightened to communicating with humanity in human terms , hiding behind your needs for being an ego centric dweeb is boring and childish , so try something less immature and more real. Try listening beyond the words of a sermon and understanding beyond the shallowness of rhetoric........you too, can do it !

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hi Norine, may this day find you healthy and in good spirits. I had other things to do for a few hours and was not here in time to deny you several times. I see that you have been very contentious. Odd on this hub. I hope you did not offend anyone too badly -- but no I did not read your comments.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 7 months ago from Olympia, WA

      The older I get, buddy, the less patience I have with contentiousness, and I suspect I'll have even less patience five years from now. There are only so many days in a lifetime we are gifted with...do we really want to spend them being pains-in-the-asses?

      I think not!

    • fpherj48 profile image

      Paula 7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Hi Ed, your comments are always sensible & realistic. Unfortunately, I'm afraid she truly cannot reach beyond shallowness of rhetoric (which is a kind way of putting her illness). She most certainly has the Hub market cornered with lunacy. It has now gone from sad & annoying, straight into hilariously comical. Sort of like a" lone-mad-woman-show-of-ludicrous-hysteria." but lacking any value of interest or entertainment.

      Eric deserves credit for at least making the effort to erase her poison from his faithful readers. Good for him. All hubbers need to take note & follow suit. She is pathetic, robotic, toxic, unstable & seriously uneducated. There's not a single reason that anyone should allow her a pulpit on their site. She begs for the delete button at all times, earns it and deserves it.

      Nice to see you Ed. Thank you for your piece of sanity. Hugs, Paula

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I must make a separate note to let you know that I apologize for not getting back here sooner to clean the comments of detritus. But perhaps it is good for us to get an insight into what it really means to be contentious. I think we all do well to pray for such folks who seemed controlled by a need to cause contention. "To change the status quo by screaming rather than leading a good life is the devil's folly."

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      JG it was truly a pleasure to read your comments. Wonderful insights. It is extremely difficult to deal with one who is not thinking in an orderly fashion. If we are not careful we get wrapped up in the confusion and get confused ourselves. In reading your comments the word steadfast came to mind. Thank you for your contributions.

    • JG Hemlock profile image

      JG Hemlock 7 months ago from VISIONS AND DREAMS

      I will never get wrapped up in that confusion and become confused myself. (You didn't have to humor me. I already knew the answers.) Yes Eric! It was the Red Rock Vortex! Maybe I should attempt at another climb soon? If you see me there on the tippy top singing...say hello...but wear your earplugs. LOL Have fun on your trip! The Jury is out for the day and the judge has gone home for a few martinis.

    • profile image

      Norine Williams 7 months ago

      Eric READ my answer to the Question "What practicing Christian can claim that some people are "irredeemable"? by Demas W Jasper!

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hey Mel, are you feeling it down there too? We broke out the diving gear just so we could breath through this humidity. I moved to a coastal desert not the equator.

      I suppose we could get sucked in by the undertow of darkness, but as long as good friends like you keep throwing out the lifesavers of love, we will do just fine.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      John, the worst jury I ever faced was a council of discipline in Boy Scouts. Yes I violated some Scout laws - Trustworthy and obedience and maybe reverence. The verdict and penalty and penance was not nearly as bad as the whole notion of being judged. Lincoln proclaimed that the greatest freedom is obedience to the law.

      Thank you for coming by and adding your experience here.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Ed, I have 3 older adult children. I did not do the best job as a dad, but somehow I impressed upon them the joy of thinking. Not like a duty or a chore but more like something that we look forward to doing time after time. What a joy filled gift it is.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Hey Ed, what a joy to have you come back and lend us some truths you know. "becoming enlightened to communicating with humanity in human term". Well I really needed to hear this today. Sometimes I get all high and mighty and say "All that is important is that I am right". If it be true -- then far better that I share it with others rather than preaching it to others.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Bill you just made me laugh at myself. I seem to get all up in my head and become contentious with myself. How come I can get all simpatico with others but still argue with myself. Oh well, I am a work in progress not a champ who already won the race.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Paula, it is very nice of you to come by and let us know your thoughts. Our NOrine surely reminds us how not to act. And cool guys like Ed remind us how to act. I respect your ability to stand firm for what you believe in, in positive way.

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      JG, Now you got it in my head. I will think of you from the top of Wilson Mountain and give a holler. You are far classier than I. Drinking straight from the whiskey bottle is more my style. Therefor it is off my menu ;-)

    • Ericdierker profile image
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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Norine, I leave your latest comment. I cannot for the life of me figure why you screamed "READ". It is like a fellow who cannot stop cussing.

      Thank you for sending some over to Demas, and my apologies and prayers for him.

      I got really pissed off the other day. The danged store would not let me redeem my bottles for cash!!! And in Cal. it is the law.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      NOrine, you are really yelling. No thanks. My ears are hurting.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Norine, can you spell, obsessive compulsive disorder?

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      Norine Williams 7 months ago

      Eric, can you spell unbelieving, lying hypocrite?

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I left this also. You remind me of a car crash. Many people slow down as lookie Lou's and can't help but look. At least no yelling -- congrats, baby steps.

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      Norine Williams 7 months ago

      Since you don't want to read your Bible, let me read it to you: "Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers (Hypocrite!). Woe unto you, for ye building the sepulchers of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. (Anyone with TRUTH; you "kill!") Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchers. (Stay in "traditions!") Therefore also said the wisdom of GOD, I will send them prophets and apostles ("chosen ones") and some of them they shall slay and persecute: (Are you not doing this?) That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; (You're in TROUBLE!) From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for you have TAKEN AWAY THE "KEY" OF KNOWLEDGE: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in (Oh, Oh!) ye hindered."

      You may THINK the Bible is as your psychology or law books, but IT is the WORD of GOD for I've seen too MANY of the prophecies therein FULFILLED! Tampering with is irrelevant when one has established a DIRECT "Communication Line" with HIM for HE lets one KNOW (Revelation)!

      I know you're going to DELETE this too, but now you know GOD knows who you are and have given you chance after chance, time and time again to REPENT but you wish to remain in your TWISTED beliefs due to pride, ego and "your wisdom!"

      As far as Hebrews 10:24 goes; it says "And let us consider one another to PROVOKE unto love and to good works!" Did you hear "PROVOKE?" Now what does that tell you of "YOUR" definition of LOVE as compared to GOD'S? Everyone needs law and discipline! Children need discipline until they come into the "understanding!" What does this say of "YOUR" sermon which is NOT in accordance with GOD'S WORD? Christ wants ALL to "get it right" for HE desires "no one is lost" but you "HINDER" with LIES!

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Sorry Norine, I did not read it, just saw the shouting and begged off. If you knocked on my door you would be welcomed into my house and home. If you shouted and screamed at my son you would be coldcocked and laid out by the street. I would call the cops and confess, but I would offer up my defense that you were trying to harm my child and they would haul you away.

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      ThreeKeys 7 months ago from Australia

      Im uncomfotable in how this conversation has unfolded.

      Eric would you mind deleting my presence in this conversation please.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Please threekeys talk to me. Perhaps we may find that that which makes us uncomfortable is that which leads us closer to God. My email is ericdierker @sbcglobal.com Talk to me so we may grow together.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Norine I was listening to some cool "amazing grace" music. You shouted so loud it disturbed me. I hope it did not disturb another.

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      Dana Tate 7 months ago from LOS ANGELES

      Eric, good sermon, I'm afraid to say more because I don't want my comment attacked. I will say this. One time I put a poem of mine on another site and an atheist left a nasty comment in the comment section. He did enjoy the poem but criticized my belief. I was discouraged because I had never been attacked before. Most would just say, "I don't believe in God, but I respect your passion for what you believe in." I confided in a good friend of mine about how this comment bothered me and she said - " That's a good thing. I'm sure that person hears and sees this all the time but it's something about your praise that rubbed this atheist the wrong way." I said all that to say, I enjoy your motivating sermons and so do others. Keep up the good work.

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      Denise W Anderson 7 months ago from Bismarck, North Dakota

      One of the dichotomies of life, we are not to judge others, and yet every day, we must judge between right and wrong, good and evil, better and best! Having never served on a jury, I do not know what happens behind those closed doors, and I have no desire to find out, either! Like you have so aptly said here, if we love first, then judging takes its rightful place.

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      Paula 7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Eric, I just saw an entire forum thread posted by one of our fellow-writers, commenting on Miss Nutty Nuisance. This hubber explained to HP Team how extremely disruptive, annoying, ludicrous & rude the nutcase is. She explained that she has written complaints to HP and knows of several others who have also made this nonsense known to HP. Asks, why has nothing been done to rid us of this pesky poisonous individual.

      The culprit has contributed nothing to our site in terms of our main purpose, which we know is creating material for the public, she horns in constantly on any and every discussion she can use as a public pulpit, and ignores requests to leave a site.

      This has been going on for far too long and it's clearly evident that no one is able to tolerate her insanity and crazy ranting.

      You have done the RIGHT thing by simply deleting her judgemental raving, her incessant quoting rather than discussion among peers. She insults people, uses harassment, finger pointing, damnation (as if she has the power!! HA!) If only everyone would follow your example and just delete, delete, delete. It's simple and a quick way to erase her craziness from our otherwise healthy discussions. Deleting all of her comments all the time is the only way we will be left in peace.

      HP has been made aware of her by numerous hubbers. They're aware of her and her garbage. It seems they just won't help the rest of us out and simply ban her from HP. Although no doubt, they themselves would never tolerate her for a moment!! She serves not a single positive purpose.

      We must continue our defense of deleting and hope that others will do the same!! You will see the forum I mentioned appearing on our feed.

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      Paula 7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Eric, I just saw an entire forum thread posted by one of our fellow-writers, commenting on Miss Nutty Nuisance. This hubber explained to HP Team how extremely disruptive, annoying, ludicrous & rude the nutcase is. She explained that she has written complaints to HP and knows of several others who have also made this nonsense known to HP. Asks, why has nothing been done to rid us of this pesky poisonous individual.

      The culprit has contributed nothing to our site in terms of our main purpose, which we know is creating material for the public, she horns in constantly on any and every discussion she can use as a public pulpit, and ignores requests to leave a site.

      This has been going on for far too long and it's clearly evident that no one is able to tolerate her insanity and crazy ranting.

      You have done the RIGHT thing by simply deleting her judgemental raving, her incessant quoting rather than discussion among peers. She insults people, uses harassment, finger pointing, damnation (as if she has the power!! HA!) If only everyone would follow your example and just delete, delete, delete. It's simple and a quick way to erase her craziness from our otherwise healthy discussions. Deleting all of her comments all the time is the only way we will be left in peace.

      HP has been made aware of her by numerous hubbers. They're aware of her and her garbage. It seems they just won't help the rest of us out and simply ban her from HP. Although no doubt, they themselves would never tolerate her for a moment!! She serves not a single positive purpose.

      We must continue our defense of deleting and hope that others will do the same!! You will see the forum I mentioned appearing on our feed.

      http://hubpages.com/community/forum/133481/any-way...

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Yippee a visit from Dana! You brighten my day and make me happy. My buddy Mel kind of wrote me a note urging me to keep on keeping on. By golly I was out hiding in the garden hoping to catch this wild hummingbird on camera, actually orange - I know amazing. And it hit me that I could actually be dissuaded from writing based on a lunatic. The thought had never crossed my mind. I just do not see verbal online attacks as persecution.

      My wife's old boss was imprisoned due to his faith, in a communist country. He just got released and we will see him in a month or so over in Southeast Asia. I pay no price for my preaching love to my friends. I am blessed to have them like you.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Denise you are wonderment of womanhood! Perhaps a dichotomy. Perhaps a privilege. I am called almost daily for my judgment on matters effecting freedom of folks and on matters of spirituality. (I know, love, law and theology don't normally mix) By golly jingles they want my judgment on matters. I cannot hide from it. My elder children lay some heavy burdens on me in the realms of finance, romance and God. They seek this old fart's wisdom and experience. That old guy upstairs did not say he would grant me long life and wisdom without responsibility to judge.

      I beg of thee to continue sharing yours with me.

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      Paula 7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Oops...so sorry my comment doubled itself! LOL Must be doubly important!

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Dear Paula, you must know that we disagree on many issues. What the heck. my daughter the actual leader of the DNCC and I do also. Let us tear into issues and debate with compassion and passion. How great is that. I learn so much from you, I owe you a debt of gratitude.

      What about those folks that learn nothing from interaction with other fellows of mankind. I was sixteen and wrote a "newspaper" for high schoolers. We got shot at in the school parking lot with live ammo. My co-editor suffered a graze. And we were taken before the school board for execution for publishing about clean needles and abortions. Seventies were crazy. There was another kid badly hurt by a bullet. He thanked us for featuring a story about bullying.

      We suffer Norine. I say to myself, "treat the worst of you as though they we me - Christ"

      But we need not drink of the Hemlock. Again my lady I admire you and thank you for being a friend to my friends.

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Paula, did I delete the second properly. Funny we speak of deletion and I have to delete you. We plan and God laughs.

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      Paula 7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Good. I was hoping you would just delete one of them. We don't need repetition!

      If you read the forum post I sent you, it's very clear from reading the numerous comments that the vast majority who are justifiably sick & tired of her lunacy have all agreed the best, easiest & most sensible action to take is plain old DELETION. As is said, do not feed the trolls. Mental illness is a very precarious issue.

      IMHO, ordinary disagreement is a part of discussion & debate. Without it, none of us would have a mind of our own but all share the same brain. What a horrible thought!! Always hold tight to one's independent thoughts.

      We fight long & hard to get there.

      I do know God laughs. My Dad always reminded me God has a sense of humor....or else why would He give ME to my Dad? Ha ha..very funny Dad! LOL

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      Eric Dierker 7 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Other than some kind of disorder explaining it, I cannot figure why someone would keep commenting in place where it just gets deleted. Maybe some kind of form of addiction. I understand some folks have that related to social media.

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      Lawrence Hebb 6 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      Eric

      As I was reading this hub I started thinking of the movie 'Runaway jury' and all the things it shows in selecting a jury!

      Great stuff

      Lawrence

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      Eric Dierker 6 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Lawrence picking jurors was on the favorite jobs I have ever had. We can predict personalities fairly easily. But predicting the interaction is far more art than anything else. An interesting part of it was in the Voir Dire portion where they are individually asked questions trying to read 11 others on their reaction to the answers.

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