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Eternal Insecurity

Updated on September 21, 2018

It has long been debated within the Christian Church. Can one lose their salvation? If so, what are we to make of Jesus’ words in John 10:28? - “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish . . . .” If the words of Jesus are true, does that mean we can do anything we choose and still dwell in the heavenly palace of the King?

To understand our eternal destiny in light of the Bible we must go back to the very beginning and examine salvation. After all, it is salvation that is being questioned. Are we saved once for all, or do we have a part in keeping it? The difference between our eternal destiny of Heaven or Hell relies not on what we can do or don’t do, but have we merely received the gift God has provided for us?

So what exactly is salvation according to the Bible? What is this gift of God? No, it’s not being saved from a car accident or a drowning accident. It’s not a matter of escaping an abusive relationship. It is a matter of being saved from a literal, fiery hell and placed into the family of God.

This can only be accomplished one way. Jesus said in John 14:6, “. . . I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Notice the closing phrase, “. . . no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” There is only one entrance into Heaven. There is only one door. The Door’s name is Jesus Christ (John 10:9). Baptism may be good, but it doesn’t save. Attempting to keep the Ten Commandments is commendable, but it’s not the door. Loving your neighbor is wonderful, but it won’t get you any closer to Heaven.

Perhaps the best-known verse in the entire Bible is John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” If we are to believe the words of Christ The Christian’s salvation is based solely on a gift – a gift that God gave. We neither pay for a gift nor work to earn it. We just accept it.

But what about the thought, if we accept it, can we also lose it? Scripture is clear on the matter although to many it seems to be confusing. You will need your Bible for this study as I will only mention the Scripture reference. Consider the following thoughts.

Your salvation has been purchased not only by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross but by the blood of God as well (Acts 20:28). Should not the blood of God be sufficient to not only purchase your salvation but also to keep it? Since my salvation was purchased, it belongs to the one who purchased it - Jesus Christ. It is His responsibility to keep track of His purchase, not mine, not yours.

We see in Hebrews 5:9 that Jesus Christ has become the author of eternal salvation. Eternal means without end. For someone who has truly come to Christ for salvation, they can know that it will last forever.

Philippians 1:6 assures us that He (Jesus) who began the work of salvation in us will continue until we are with Him in Heaven.

Jesus Himself tells us in John 6:39, 40 that the will of the Father is that those who have come to Jesus should have everlasting life. God’s will be done. There are no two ways about it.

We learn in Romans 8:15 that we are adopted into the family of God, and a family relationship exists. He is my Father and I am His child through adoption. Further, we are told in John 3:1-7 that we must born again. We were born once physically. Now, to have an everlasting relationship with the Father, we must be born again spiritually. I was born into this world as a Kovacic. Everything I am was given to me by my parents. I can hate them (which I don’t). I can turn my back on them (which I haven’t). I can even legally change my last name. But I’m still my father’s son. Nothing can change that. Neither can anything change my standing as a child of God.

John 6:37 is another clear verse on the issue of eternal security. We are told plainly that all who come to Christ will never be cast out. Why is it so hard for some to accept the simple teaching of the Bible?

We have the promise in Psalm 48:14 that God will be our God forever and will carry us our entire lifetime.

That beloved verse, John 3:16, is so important, not only as it discusses true salvation but as it speaks of the fact we cannot lose that salvation. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Time and time again in Scripture we are told that God has provided everlasting life, eternal life, for those that come to Him His way.

Paul mentions in Romans 8:38, 39 that “. . . neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Really, what’s left to separate us?

The Old Testament book of Psalms (Psalm 84:14) points us very clearly to the fact that God will not cast us off, nor forsake us – ever.

I John 2:25 gives us the promise of eternal life - “And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.”

The Apostle John goes on to explain in I John 5:13 that we can know that we have eternal life. The important word in this verse is, know. We can have absolute assurance that our salvation is secure. We can know.

Again, in I John 5:11, we find that God gives eternal life, and this eternal life is found in His Son, Jesus Christ. The eternal life is bound up in Jesus Christ, not us. It is not ours to lose or to keep. Peter tells us in Acts 4:12 that salvation is only found in Christ. Jesus Himself says that He is the only hope in John 14:6. Salvation is not about a religion. It is about a personal relationship with the God of the universe. Absolute truth does exist even if we choose to not believe it. Two plus two still equals four.

Moving on, the lesson we can learn from Acts 10:43 is that the Old Testament prophets taught that our sins could be forgiven. Our sins are either forgiven or they are not. I choose to believe the Bible.

I Peter 1:5 informs us that our salvation is kept by God. If I was to keep my salvation I would surely lose it. No question about it, but it is God’s keeping. What He died and resurrected for, He will keep. It simply isn’t my job.

There are many other Scriptures we could turn to, but I make this the last. “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:27-29). To think I can lose my salvation puts the emphasis back on me. What do I have to do to keep my salvation intact? The truth is there is nothing I can do. It is all about what Jesus did. Pride is the culprit here. If Jesus can save me (and He can – He did), then He certainly has the power to keep me.

Notice, first of all, in the above verses, the promise is only to His sheep. To be a sheep, you must be born again according to John 3:3. But if you are a sheep, if you truly belong to Jesus, you will never perish. You are safe in the hand of Jesus who is held by God the Father’s hand. That, my friend, is double security.

Why am I so bothered by the false doctrine that salvation can be lost? If I may be direct, one reason is because it is a false doctrine. I understand there are those who claim Scripture teaches we can lose our salvation, but honestly, the verses they claim are taken out of context. The false insecurity doctrine cheapens the precious blood of my Saviour. That is really what the problem is. Jesus died to secure eternal salvation for all who come to Him. To say I am responsible to keep it cheapens the sacrifice that was made.

Salvation is either eternal or it isn’t. If it isn’t then Jesus Himself lied over and over again (and He didn’t). Give Him all the glory for what He has done in your life. Don’t try to keep the glory for yourself.

If you have truly accepted God's only way of salvation, you can be sure you are eternally kept. If you are not sure how to go about claiming God's eternal salvation, please feel free to drop me an email. I'd love to get into more detail with you.

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    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      2 weeks ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Thank you, Daniel.

    • Dannyb-Dev profile image

      Daniel Idowu 

      2 weeks ago from Lagos, Nigeria.

      William, I shall be publishing a hub on this topic in a couple of days, with the hope of your being open-minded enough to read it.

      Your opinions in this article were well articulated; that, I respect.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      3 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Jack, I’m going to be straightforward with you, but that doesn’t in any way mean I disrespect you or your views. As you know, we are all entitled to our own views. You wrote – “But is that the real reason Bill? I would suggest you didn't like the truth in what he was saying.” I would caution you about making assumptive statements. You nor anyone else can claim to know my motives. You know as well as I do that I allow comments that are respectful and courteous.. We’ve disagreed many times and for the most part I’ve allowed your comments. Referring to Scripture as “hogwash” as well as other demeaning words, as V’yrn chose to use is not my cup of tea, but when a comment is as long as the hub itself, it belongs on that contributor’s page. I’m not going to allow anybody (and it’s happened before) to hijack my article. By that I mean, it takes precedence over the article. In effect, it becomes the article because it just goew on and on. Do I owe you that explanation? No, but I gave it to you anyway. If someone chooses to respectfully and courteously disagree, you know I allow that. That being said, I don’t need to explain myself to anybody. Now, for your verses.

      John 3:16-18 – I’m afraid I don’t get your point. The condition is if we come to Him for salvation. He has made it possible (”might” have the opportunity). He has already assured me in verse 16 that I will never perish, but have eternal life. Come on, Jack, Never means never and eternal means eternal, without end. Yes, to say anything else is to take it out of context. As a matter of fact, the deeper context is the entire chapter which deals with being born again. Jesus has made me His son through the new birth. I can disobey Him, and even rebel, but I am still His as much as I can disobey my earthly father and remain his.

      John 10:25-29 – Why don’t the Jews believe? Because they were never saved to begin with. It says nothing about them losing their salvation. It says they were not His sheep.

      Romans 8:38, 39 – I’m sorry. I don’t see a promise in these verses. It is simply a statement.

      Hebrews 5:9 – What are we to obey? Let’s stretch the context further. It is not a stand-alone verse. II Thessalonians 1:8 says, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:” You may disagree, but the gospel of Jesus Christ is simply His death, burial, and resurrection. If we’re talking about obedience, then we have a problem. I don’t obey all the time, nor do you. We still have that nasty sinful nature.

      I Peter 1:4-9 – Absolutely it is about faith. Saving faith is not the same as temporary faith. Faith is not just believing. It is knowing – knowing that my precious Jesus took my sin at the cross and carried it as far as the east is from the west. It is that sacrifice that has washed me clean despite my disobedience. So what about works? Ephesians 2:8 makes it clear salvation is by grace through faith. Verse 10 makes it clear that good works will follow, not for our salvation or to keep our salvation, but because we are His workmanship. When we come to a true saving faith, we have an inheritance that won’t fade away, an inheritance reserved for us. I’m afraid many people repeat a prayer and think they’re saved – not necessarily true. But if they are TRULY saved, I promise you, they will never be lost.

      I John 5:11-13 – I find it interesting the verse in question (verse 12) relates to verse 11 which promises ETERNAL life to those who have the Son. I either have Him or I don’t. Nothing is said about losing Him. I also find it interesting that verse 13 tells us that we may KNOW that we have eternal life. I don’t have to guess if I have it. I know I have it, and it’s not because of anything in myself. It’s to God’s glory alone that He was able to save a wretch like me – and keep me. Jack, I don’t mean to keep repeating myself, but eternal life is eternal or it’s not eternal life. Can I grieve the Holy Spirit? Sure. Can I quench Him? Absolutely. Can I loser Him? Only if God is lying when He says He will never leave me nor forsake me. In the Greek, the word “never” is actually a double negative which strengthens the English meaning. In effect, what the writer of Hebrews is saying in Hebrews 13:5 is not at all: - not any more, by no means, in no case (wise), never, never, never.

      Romans 8:22, 23 - I’m not sure what your point is in conjunction with eternal security.

      You go on to quote me and add your thoughts. “The thing I'm incensed by and I'm sure V'nye was too, that is your statement - "Since my salvation was purchased, it belongs to the one who purchased it, Jesus Christ. IT IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP TRACK OF HIS PURCHASE, NOT MINE, NOT YOURS. Do you still stand by that statement?” Yes, I still stand by that statement. And the cost of that purchase was priceless, the death of my Saviour.

      You go on to say, “. . . such arrogance Bill. No, it's beyond arrogance, it's blasphemy.” The blasphemy, Jack, is attempting to add works to salvation, and that’s what I’m doing if I’m afraid I might lose my salvation. It’s up to me to obey. It’s up to me to never fail. Salvation becomes works added on. The blasphemy is in thinking I must do something to secure my salvation. And let’s face it, Jack, if I can lose my salvation, then it’s up to me to work at it so I don’t lose it.

      Finally, you go to say, “You mentioned in one of your responses to my comment - "I appreciate your concern for my flock, Jack, but don't get stressed. I, and I alone am responsible for the precious ones God has allowed me to minister to. Your hands are clean". I'm sure you are aware of Acts 20: 28 - 30, which is very convicting and you will shortly be called to give an answer - the very day after your last day. I’m very much aware of the sacred calling I have. It is a fearful thing. That’s why I have studied and studied this topic over and over again. I believe those verses apply not just to preachers, but to those who handle God’s Word. You, too, will answer for your life.

      Bottom line, Jack. I stand where I stand. You stand where you stand. You won’t change my thinking, and I won’t change your thinking. So as I mentioned many times before. I’m agreeing to disagree even if you don’t.

    • Veronye profile image

      V'nye 

      3 months ago from United States of America

      Jack J.,

      That's almost certainly the reason why he deleted it. At its very core at least. He shrouds it with something else to justify it. Did you get a chance to read all of the three parts before he deleted it? There was meant to be four but that one got denied. Yes I did make a very lengthy "comment" (keyword there). It's not a hub or an article. I'm glad someone understands.

      I didn't realize he said this in the comments. Must've skimmed over it: "I appreciate your concern for my flock, Jack, but don't get stressed. I, and I alone am responsible for the precious ones God has allowed me to minister to. Your hands are clean." Thanks for pointing it out.

      Will,

      It would be of no concern if you were guiding your flock in the right direction. Your responsibility is to adhere to the truth and you simply don't; therefore, I'm calling you out on it. God gave everyone free will. You're essentially allowed to do anything but that doesn't mean what you're doing isn't incorrect. That's the issue with "agreeing to disagree", Will. If you weren't going around teaching your lies as if they were Gospel then I wouldn't have an issue. Though when you start leading others down a wrong path is when I have to step in. You should know that good and well. If you choose to put out notions then you should expect they'll be criticized if they're false. You signed up for it so don't try to run from it. It comes with the craft.

      It is absolutely absurd someone who writes about Scripture and influencing people is unwilling to debate. That is the whole point of teaching. Proving your words to be true. Yet you selectively run from that portion, which is one of the most important parts, and would rather stick to the more fun stuff. That being preaching, writing, and guiding others. Though you are simply inadequate to do so because you skipped a major part. The part where you challenge your own beliefs to make sure they're correct. The part where you provide proof. You have just cherry-picked and misconstrued verses, and anyone who actually fact checks / reads Scripture can see that. You need to hold yourself accountable if you want to be preaching His Word. I'm sending you all 4 parts via email and you should really digest them.

    • Veronye profile image

      V'nye 

      3 months ago from United States of America

      Will,

      No, I called your belief as well as your argument in this article hogwash. You clearly misconstrued what I said which is also typical. I want you to point out exactly what "prideful" moments I had and exactly where I called Scripture hogwash. I know you don't debate Scripture as you've still haven't put up a single valid argument yet. You clearly don't like putting your notions to the test. You'd rather keep them in a safe space instead of holding them accountable.

      It is also typical you project your own pride onto me to accuse me of it when that was a solid point I made against you. That's a psychological defense mechanism. It's called displacement. Quit being intellectually dishonest. You're not fooling anyone here. You can paint a narrative all you want. The truth will remain. You don't think putting your responsibility onto Jesus is prideful, Will? You don't think putting God's power, Jesus' honesty, and salvation's eternal aspect on the line to reinforce your false belief is prideful, Will? Again, don't delete my arguments then run and hide in your echo chamber saying things without backing it up.

      You disagree but your position holds zero weight. When are you going to stop running and be bold? I am fully confident in the truth yet you are so timid when it comes to your truth. I know I'm entitled to my opinion. You keep on justifying deleting my comments and keep expecting me to believe it. You keep referring to comments as hubs or articles as if length determines what is a hub. No, Will, this is the comment section. Things that are posted under the comment section are called comments. You can label them anything you'd like for justification but nobody is going to agree with you. You're misconstruing what a comment is relative to a hub/article. Length doesn't distinguish them too.

      What if someone else wanted to read my arguments, Will? Quit trying to make excuses to make people's comments conform to your will (pun intended). Your article got refuted. That's why you deleted it. It was too much for you. Though you don't want to say that because of your ego. Stop playing this game and be forward. I explained to you in 4 parts why you were wrong. You don't want to be wrong so you ran. If you cared at all about the truth then you'd read it. Why? Because people who do love the truth appreciate criticism. Swallow the red pill as opposed to the blue one. Your notions are never going to be robust if you never challenge them. That's the whole point of trying to discover the truth. You challenge your beliefs and see if they hold. You haven't truly done that with this belief present in your article here.

      I'll reiterate this so you don't misconstrue it again. No, your notions and how you misconstrue Scripture is hogwash. I even addresses this in my argument you deleted as I said nothing is wrong with Scripture but how you use it. I predicted you'd do this so that's why I said it. That's how predictable you people are. You shamefully tried to paint an inaccurate picture of my words so you can manipulate people to side with you. No, you are prideful. I have evidence for this in my comments you deleted. You're displacing your issue onto me as a defense. I'm not stupid and you're not going to get away with your tactics with me here. It's just a shame you can't be honest. You're a false prophet. Plain and simple. A wolf in sheep's clothing. You're not fooling me. You can keep up this facade of being polite but manipulative or be bold and refute my arguments. I don't care what you say but what you do. Your fruit is what I care about. You can describe a rotten apple as ripe and healthy all you want. It doesn't change that it's rotten. Refute me if I am wrong. Proof, proof, proof.

      You don't have to count each word but you should probably read each word more carefully. Thanks for thinking my comment (not a hub, it's in the comment section) is wonderful and good. If you think people refuting your article is hijacking am I to assume people have also come refuting you and you ran from that as well? I suggest you should start having the fortitude to debate Scripture. I will most likely be posting my refutation as an actual hub. At least you stopped deleting comments now so perhaps you're slowly getting better.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      3 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Umesh Chandra Bhatt, thank you.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      3 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Jack, I do apologize. I didn't see your last comment until now. It was not intentional. I plan to answer your newest comment soon. It will take some time, but right now that's one thing I'm pressed for. Until then....

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      3 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      V'nye, I didn't count each word, but your many drawn-out comments were almost as long as my article, if not longer. That being said, you wrote a wonderful hub. I disagree with you completely, but nevertheless, it was clear. Besides calling Scripture hogwash and a few other prideful moments, it was good. But your hub doesn't belong on my page. It belongs on yours. You and everyone else are entitled to their opinion, but when someone tries to hijack an article (and it has happened before), I delete it. I suggest you post your own hub on your own page. Know also that I don't debate Scripture.

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      3 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      Since my last comment to you I check your post every day to see if you've replied to mine and I'll try to keep it short.

      A few days ago I noticed another reader, V'nye, made a lengthy comment in 3 parts that further, much further reinforced what I had already said and he did a better job than I did. But I noticed after a short time you disallowed his comments. You said you deleted them for one reason - you don't allow others to post their articles on my articles. But is that the real reason Bill? I would suggest you didn't like the truth in what he was saying.

      Bill, let's be honest here, V'nye was correcting you on the comments you made simply because you, as he said, cherry picked them to forward your argument of OSAS. I'm quite sure you understand that most verses can stand alone but others need the full explanation of the verses before and after to discern the true meaning. And this is what both he and I said, you are taking those verses out of context without explaining the full meaning. Yes, the individual verses you mentioned are truth but do you know what happens to a verse when you take it out of context - you risk make it a lie.

      To use the verses you mentioned briefly - John 3: 16, a beautiful verse and is true enough but you failed to mention or explain, verses 17, 18 which reinforces the truth of it and is CONDITIONAL. Why do you think John mentions the word 'might' in verse 17? Verse 18 is self-explanatory. John 10: 27 - 29 is a promise but again you fail to mention the two verses before them, which makes it clear that if you break that promise, you are lost - period. Romans 8: 38, 39 again Paul recognises it as a promise and again we can break it. And yes, again it's about continuing. Hebrews 5: 9 is a 'stand alone' verse stating a fact - IF we obey Him. 1st Peter 1: 5 - again only one verse, when you include 4 - 9 it becomes clear and it's about faith. 1st John 5: 11 & 13, again a promise but you left the crucial verse 12 out of it. Verse 12 is the condition.

      The thing I'm incensed by and I'm sure V'nye was too, that is your statement - "Since my salvation was purchased, it belongs to the one who purchased it, Jesus Christ. IT IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP TRACK OF HIS PURCHASE, NOT MINE, NOT YOURS. Do you still stand by that statement? Where did that ideology come from? And we both tried to tell you - such arrogance Bill. No, it's beyond arrogance, it's blasphemy. As I said before but it went over your head - If I gave you a gift YOU are responsible to keep it safe. NOT HIM, not anyone else, that's it full stop. I remember you asked me a question, "If salvation can be lost, when does that happen". By your own question, you don't sound too confident and I gave you a simpe answer that I would invite anyone to consider.

      You mentioned in one of your responses to my comment - "I appreciate your concern for my flock, Jack, but don't get stressed. I, and I alone am responsible for the precious ones God has allowed me to minister to. Your hands are clean".

      I'm sure you are aware of Acts 20: 28 - 30, which is very convicting and you will shortly be called to give an answer - the very day after your last day.

      In fact, I'm stil waiting to get your answer on Romans 8: 22, 23. Those two verses alone refute all you've said and should be more than enough to give anyone with just the slightest hint of reasoning to reject OSAS once and for good.

      Well I suppose you can remain silent and disallow me too but others, particularly those of your flock and those who follow you here really need to think about what you are saying before they blindly follow in your footsteps, which is leading in a dangerous direction.

      Hoping you'll see reason Bill.

      Jack.

    • Veronye profile image

      V'nye 

      3 months ago from United States of America

      Will K.,

      That's an interesting justification for having an echo-chamber. I expected as much. I'll summarize and if you have objections I can go into great detail because I saved my comments before you deleted them:

      You're incorrect and you are teaching false doctrine. There you go.

      Lengthy comments isn't exclusive to "articles". I find it curious how you completely ignored my arguments in those comments too. Are you suggesting I write my own article refuting yours? Let me know when you're confident enough in your "truth" to allow it to be put to the test. Cherry-picking verses and selectively ignoring others to fit His Word around your own subjective notion that consequently encourages lukewarmness (spiritual laziness) will only get you so far.

      If you only indeed deleted my comments due to length as opposed to censoring what I have to say then you'll leave this up. Again, if you disagree I have everything written down that elaborated on my points here and proves them to be correct. Just ask. Of course you can delete this too and make excuses to ignore me. Would be quite telling.

      This isn't about length or writing articles, Will. This is about the truth. Deleting comments because they don't fit your liking instead of responding or leaving them be is not a good enough excuse. There are plenty of people on here that let lengthy comments stay because they don't want to dictate people's speech and let people's comments conform to their own opinion. What about you? Yes, I am confronting you about the deceit in your article. Yes, I have sound arguments and Scripture to back me up. Be bold. Quit trying to hide the truth so your article can remain protected against it. People have come out refuting you already by what I see in the comments. This time though I can prove you wrong 100%. No ifs, ands, or buts. Though you conveniently don't like debating Scripture as you'd then discover your position holds no weight. Do you care about truth of convenience, Will? Is "length" too much for you? The Bible is an awfully long book. Also it means you can't place a few verses in your articles you misconstrued and expect someone not to call you out on it. You conveniently ignored my comments and deleted them just like how you conveniently ignore verses or parts of verses.

      If it comes to it then I will make an article directly refuting yours. Though hopefully it won't come to that. Hopefully you can discuss and be direct. It's all up to you.

      FYI: I was able to post three comments. There are four parts in total. Not five or six. These four parts I have already saved in a document because I assumed you would delete them because it's typical. People who lie don't want to be exposed. It's typical.

    • bhattuc profile image

      Umesh Chandra Bhatt 

      3 months ago from Kharghar, Navi Mumbai, India

      Nicely explained. Good reading.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      3 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      V'nye , I deleted your five or six lengthy comments for one reason. I don't allow others to post their articles on my articles. I suggest you write your own hub. You certainly have more than enough material.

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      7 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      I agree, debating scripture can lead to all sorts of problems, which can easily get out of hand, particularly if it becomes argumentive.

      Thank you for the question - I hope I can do justice by a simple answer.

      Believers are saved, even in bad conduct - we all sin.

      Unbelievers are not, regardless of good conduct - no more to say.

      I'm sure you would agree that men like Paul and Peter had the gift of the Spirit in them, the same gift that all who believe have today - if they will submit to his leading.

      And if that wasn't the case, who would believe them today?

      In the scriptures that Paul is talking about, he uses the same word you're using - IF. And meaning if you continue in faith. If you stop believing for whatever reason you are no longer continuing.

      I can understand your last question - it crosses everyones mind from time to time and Paul is reassuring us in those verses to continue and that is just one of Satan's favourite tricks - to cause doubt.

      I hope my simple answer resonates with you Bill.

      Again my best,

      Jack.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      7 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Yes, Jack. I suppose there's nothing more you can do. As I said in the first paragraph of the article, "It has long been debated within the Christian Church. Can one lose their salvation?" I'm not going to debate Scripture. I've made my statement and you've made yours.

      There is more I could say, but I'll not take the time.

      I am wondering, however, if salvation (notice I said, IF) can be lost, when does that happen? What is the sin that finally causes God to excommunicate me from His family? Can I ever know for sure I'm saved? Or lost?

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      7 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      Oh well, I suppose there's nothing more I can do.

      But seeing you haven't mentioned them, did you at least consider those verses? I don't know how you or anyone could take them out of context - they're pretty clear to me.

      Again my best Bill,

      Jack.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      7 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Hi, Jack. As far as my comment to Denise - no I'm not having second thoughts. I was being sarcastic. Of course, eternal means eternal. I appreciate your concern for my flock, Jack, but don't get stressed. I, and I alone, am responsible for the precious ones God has allowed me to minister to. Your hands are clean. As I said in my response to you 15 months ago - Agreed to disagree. Thanks for adding to the mix.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      7 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Umesh Chandra Bhatt, you're quite welcome!

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      8 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      Some thoughts have come to mind again on this topic, which as you have said, it is an important one and again, please let me say I mean you no disrespect.

      You mention taking verses out of context and I understand that simply because it so often is the case, which is why many have the wrong idea. Scripture is not an easy thing to decipher and it's easy to get it wrong, even the best do but getting it wrong only leads to other problems. I'll offer a couple of verses in an attempt to change your present thinking.

      Colossians 1: 23 says in part: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled , and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,

      And in Romans 11: 22, 23 it says: Behold the goodness and severirity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

      And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

      In both instances Paul is encouraging us to continue in faith and in the first verse Paul begins with IF ye continue . . . he didn't just say contiue in the faith - IF, is specific. And he then backs it up with 'be not moved away'. And in both instances he gives us a warning.

      In the first verse in Romans he is talking to two types of persons - to one who will continue there is goodness, to the other there is severity in falling and gives a warning: otherwise thou also shall be cut off. So there is a limit to His goodness.

      The second verse is like a promise - God is able and will graff them in if they turn from their unbelief. And that is mercy.

      Since faith can be lost and since salvation depends on faith, salvation can be lost.

      I sincerely hope you will consider both my responses Bill.

      My best regards,

      Jack.

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      8 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      "As far as I can tell, Denise,"

      That doesn't sound like you are positive Bill - all your other responses are in the affirmative - are you having second thoughts?

      I mean you no disrespect Bill but I have tried to tell you before that your stance is very wrong and the sad part is that you are a minister of a church and you should know better. I truly wish for the sake of your flock you would think again on this very serious subject.

      Yes, Jesus loves us unconditionally and salvation is given freely to all who want it but if, after receiving salvation and you deny the one who gave it to you, you are LOST, pure and simple. As long as you continue, that is the requirement that makes it conditional. And that is the truth of the matter in respect to all the verses you quote.

      Let's just take your first verse of John 14: 6, which is true but not quite as you put it - the door that Jesus is referring to is The Strait Gate and sadly not many understand the true meaning of it simply because it is entered spiritually and not physically and John 10: 16 is reiforcing it.

      And the worst thing you have said here is the paragraph where you say "Since my salvation was purchased, it belongs to the one who purchased it - Jesus Christ. It is His responsibility to keep track of His purchase, not mine, not yours". That is so wrong and I find it hard to believe you would even say that.

      I AM RESPONSIBLE TO ENSURE THAT I DON'T LOSE MY SALVATION - NOT HIS.

      If I gave you a gift it's NOT my responsibility to keep it safe - YOU ARE.

      You mention John 6: 27 - very true, He will never cast us out as long as we remain in Him. And further down you mention Romans 8: 38 & 39, "Really, what's left to separate us?" Us ourselves that's who.

      The paragraph where you say 'I make this the last' - "What do I have to do to keep my salvation intact? The truth is there is nothing I can do". This really gives me concern Bill.

      As you can see, this isn't the first time I've responded to this article and it has been on my mind every time I go past it and again I will say I mean you no disrespect - I will leave it here.

      Jack.

    • bhattuc profile image

      Umesh Chandra Bhatt 

      8 months ago from Kharghar, Navi Mumbai, India

      Thoughtful article. Thanks.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      9 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      As far as I can tell, Denise, eternal means eternal. What else is there to say. Glad you were able to stop by!

    • PAINTDRIPS profile image

      Denise McGill 

      9 months ago from Fresno CA

      Good points. I believe as you do that even contemplating losing my salvation is ridiculous. I don't want out.

      Blessings,

      Denise

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      22 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Good point, Lawrence. Of couse, He would never kick us out. Thanks for adding your thoughts. it was a good one.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      22 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Absolutely Tamara. It makes perfect sense. One thing that is different though is that even when it's pointed out, they still don't see it. Thanks for stopping by.

    • lawrence01 profile image

      Lawrence Hebb 

      22 months ago from Hamilton, New Zealand

      William

      Totally agree with you, but come at it slightly differently.

      'Those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his son' (Romans 8 vs 29)

      'He chose us in him, before the foundation of the world' Ephesians 1 vs 4

      If God chose me, why would he kick me out?

      Awesome bro

    • Rhyme Vine Poetry profile image

      BBYCGN 

      22 months ago from Uninhabited Regions

      I love this post as it is on fire with God’s Eternal Love through our Savior, Jesus Christ!

      I think it is difficult for some to accept because the message is so simple that it is akin to staring at something right in front of us, but still wondering where we placed it. It’s right there, yet we often fail to see it because we are looking for something more complicated in order to justify such a rich gift that has been given to us. Thanks to Jesus Christ!

      Do you think what I just wrote makes sense? It makes sense to me, but not sure if I explained it right.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Looking forward to it, Charlie.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 

      23 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth in between the oceans

      Bill, thank you for the response, Yes I will honor your request. I will respond after I digest it.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Hi, Dora. Good to see you. The Holy Spirit wrote the Book. I think He's the only one that can properly interpret it Glad you were able to stop by and visit for a bit.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Thanks for stopping by, Bill. I really look up to you and want you to know there is a way that you can know if you're prepared. I've outlined in the article. Hope you settle the question soon.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Hi, Jack. Agreed to disagree. Thanks for adding to the mix.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Hi Charlie.,

      I don't mind comments from anybody as long as they are respectful, on topic, and not given in an argumentative manner. You asked with sincerity, so I will answer you with sincerity. That being said, I also won't debate a topic in the comments. if you have any other questions, please feel free to send me an email, but I won't address them here. I hope, that since you say you are sincere that, that also means you are open-minded.

      "The problem is the premise you use that you are saved when you are born again. There is not one scripture that says that." - I think the problem perhaps lies in semantics, at least, in part. I would take you to John 3:3, ". . . Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." The word saved is not specifically used here, but it most assuredly tells us that if we are not born again, we cannot see the kingdom of God. You might also consider Ephesians 2:1 and I Peter 1:3 among others. So, no. The word "saved" does not appear here, but following through, the Scripture clearly teaches one must be born again, begotten, etc. That is what I mean when i refer to salvation.

      "All scriptures that talk about receiving your salvation say the those that endure to the end SHALL be saved," - this simply isn't true.There are many verses that mention save, saved, salvation, etc.with no reference to enduring. Consider Titus 3:5, Ephesians :5, 8,Romans 10:9, 13 among so many others.

      "that means at the judgment where we are judged there is NO-ONE saved before they are judged and allowed entry to His eternal kingdom at the judgment" - partially true. I won't enter the kingdom until all things are complete. At that time my salvation will be complete. For now, I'm still on a journey, but I know my final destinatiion will be the kingdom because I am saved, redeemed, born again or however you want to say it. The fact is I belong to Jesus right now. I don't have to wait for the end.

      "Remmember ALL scriptures are complementary, none can negate another". - You are so right. This is where understanding the context of a verse is needed.

      "Matt 10:22

      22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." The Greek word for saved here and in your other scripture references is (σώζω) sōzō. It is also the same Greek word used in my examples. The word certainly can mean"saved" as I have referred to it, but it can also mean to deliver, to protect, to preserve. Within the context of Mattheww 10:22, it carries the latter meaning, and we can tell that from the context.

      Jesus is sending out his disciples (Matthew 10:16-23). The verse in question here deals with the disciples enduring persecution, and those that endure the persecution to the end will be delivered, preserved, etc. In its context, this is only referring to the 12 disciples, The 12 will be saved (preserved) in the end ias they faithfully endure the heavy .persecution that was to come upon them.

      In the other vreses you menton in Matthew and Mark. The same idea is true. We're dealing with persecution. What was (is) to be endured? Hatred, deception of the false prophets. If I could sum it up this way - those that have been bought by the blood of Christ and have been sealed by the Holy Spirit will be able to endure (not give in, not buckle under) the strong persecution that is to come.

      We also see in Matthew 24:22, and Mark 13:20 that it is the flesh that should be saved. The verses as you have quoted them have nothing to do with one's eternal salvation within the ocntext.

      Continuing on with your statements - "When you become a disciple of Christ according to all HIS requirements you are not saved," I sincerely hope you are not telling me you have kept all of Christ's requirements. His first requirement is that we be saved (I Timothy 2:4). Within the context of that verse, salvation is a present tense type of thing. God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Scripture teaches that one must be saved in order to understand the truth of God's Word. It is the Holy Spirit who gives us understanding. The point being, if I'm not saved until the end, there would be no time to come to the knowledge of truth which is I am to be saved. And if I endure until the end and have not Christ, I'm still lost.

      "if you do not endure to the end and YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE SALVATION. - I explained above what it is to endure and how endurance has no part in salvation, so I'm not sure what it is you feel is being endured.

      "5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." I get the part about the name being blotted out, but ai just wanted to mention that overcoming is not the same as enduring. Unfortunately, that's another topic for another time.

      "5 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" - Of course, they will need to depart. They were trusting in their own works rather than coming to Christ His way (which I've explained in the article). It is impossible for sinful man to work his way to Heaven. It all rests on Jesus Christ's sacrifice. The sinless for the sinner. The pure for the filthy. The rightwous for the rebellious.

      If you are truly sincere, I hope this helps. Again, if you have any other sincere questions, please feel free to email me at HP.

    • MsDora profile image

      Dora Weithers 

      23 months ago from The Caribbean

      Thanks for this clearly outlined study. Still, both the secure and the insecure about salvation use Bible verses effectively to prove their belief. Perhaps, as with other issues, the Holy Spirit has to convince the individual. If that is the case, then we ought to concentrate on knowing God which is a prerequisite for hearing His voice. I also like Lori's comment.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 

      23 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth in between the oceans

      Jack you said you read my material on this where I make it very clear the end is of your life or judgment. It is also just common sense that when you die you have come to your end.

      I have never addressed the tribulation as I do not have the truth of it yet.

      The 2nd paragraph is correct , show scripture to prove otherwise.

      what you say( or me or anyone else) without scripture in context

      backup has NO VALUE

      If you are going to attack me john do it my comment section where I am free to reply in detail

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 

      23 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Always interesting to read your thoughts on these matters, Bill. I am afraid I am a simply man. I live a life of love and hope that's enough to get me to the next life prepared. I guess we'll all find out soon enough, 'eh?

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      23 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi again Bill,

      Please forgive me for this response to Charlie in your post but it needs to be addressed.

      Charlie you say in your 4th paragraph - Even those that say you will be saved require you "to endure to the end." How can those who die before Tribulation endure to the end?

      If you are referring to people enduring to the end of their lives, I can understand that but the way you have put it is suggesting at the end of Tribulation because it is written that way in scripture.

      You are in effect taking it out of context because of poor explanation.

      Your statement in your second paragraph is NOT true - and to use your own words, Remember, ALL scripture is complementary, none can negate another.

      I mean no offence Charlie.

      Jack.

    • Jack Jenn profile image

      Jack Jenn 

      23 months ago from Nelson Bay NSW Australia.

      Hi Bill,

      I have to disagree with you on this subject and I feel that I must throw my 2 cents worth into the mix. Even though there are plenty of verses in scripture that back up what I will say, however, I will just use plain language for all to decide which is right.

      There is only one way you can lose your salvation after it is given and that is by rejecting the one who gave it to you - and you might want to consider that for a moment. Think about the 'falling away' both now and more so in the very near future. Isn't that rejecting Him? And that is the unpardonable sin.

      Is it possible to keep sinning after salvation? ALL SIN no matter who they are but God's patience has a limit. After salvation, all sin is wilful, even if it's unknowingly and none can escape that but as long as we confess our sins to God DAILY we can be forgiven.

      I'm sure you believe that everyone's names are in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world - (even every unbelievers names are there until the wilful act of accepting the mark or remaining as an unbeliever until death) so how do you think it becomes erased? By sinning past the point of no more forgiveness.

      Even though we have had differences of opinions in the past, I still read your posts out of interest but I had to respond to this one.

      Bill I have written a hub on this very subject and I invite you and anyone else to look at it - it is under the heading of Sin - the wages of sin is death.

      Best regards,

      Jack.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 

      23 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth in between the oceans

      Bill, I know you do not like my comments but I sincerely want an ANSWER to the questions I ask here, If as you say I am wrong prove it with scriptures. Show me how you can nullify the scriptures that I give and explain because I am unable to do that. Do not just throw some scripture at me like happens too frequently, please give me scripture and explain how they negate these.

      This article is partially correct, The statement you cannot lose your salvation AFTER you receive it is true.

      The problem is the premise you use that you are saved when you are born again. There is not one scripture that says that. All scriptures that talk about receiving your salvation say the those that endure to the end SHALL be saved, that means at the judgment where we are judged there is NO-ONE saved before they are judged and allowed entry to His eternal kingdom at the judgment.

      Even those that say you will be saved require you to “endure to the end”. Remmember ALL scriptures are complementary, none can negate another.

      Matt 10:22

      22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

      Matt 24:11-14

      11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

      Mark 13:13

      13 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

      When you become a disciple of Christ according to all HIS requirements you are not saved, your name is written in the Lamb's book of Life, but you must still endure to the end to keep your name in the book. Only those whose names are in the book can be saved and enter the ertenal kingdom of God at the judgment. Both God and Christ reserve the right to blot out your name if you do not endure to the end and YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE SALVATION. See MT 7:21-23 below

      Rev 3:5

      5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

      Rev 20:12-15

      12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,* and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.* 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire

      Rev 22:19

      19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away* his part from the Book* of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

      Matt 7:21-23

      21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

      There are other things in the article that are incorrect because of this incorrect premise but this is the one I want addressed now. Thank You

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      23 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      I think they call themselves Babtist - not a normal Southern type. The place is La Presa California. Claimed to be the oldest Spanish settlement on the West coast.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Glad you were able to stop by, Eric. Just curious - where was the church you visited?

    • Ericdierker profile image

      Eric Dierker 

      23 months ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

      Great job. I always scratch my head when I here the opposite. My boy and I visited a church where the "fire and brimstone" was so hard core we did not get up and leave, we spun around and ran out the door!

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Hi, Jeff. I think the doctrine of eternal security is one of the most documented doctrines in all of Scripture. I'm not sure how so many people get confused. Glad you were able to stop by, Brother.

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Thanks, Lori. As Jesus said, "the truth shall make you free. As always, I'm glad to see you!

    • lifegate profile imageAUTHOR

      William Kovacic 

      23 months ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Absolutely, RTalloni. It has been, it is, and it will always be God, and God alone. Thank you for visiting and adding your wise thoughts.

    • GodTalk profile image

      Jeff Shirley 

      23 months ago from Kentwood, Michigan

      Good study Bill. Salvation is truly of the Lord and cannot be lost. It is hard to look at all of the Scriptures you sited and come to any other conclusion! Thanks for being true to God's Word!!

    • lambservant profile image

      Lori Colbo 

      23 months ago from Pacific Northwest

      Such a very important topic. Thanks for this presentation to set people free.

    • profile image

      RTalloni 

      23 months ago

      Indeed, ALL the glory! Salvation had to be a gift because nothing in us is enough to meet the need. Oh how we praise Him for His mercy! Thank you for the sweet reminder of our Lord's sufficiency. Though it is beyond our comprehension, He has given us enough knowledge about eternal security to take us through time and to the point of when we step out into eternity. I pray your work here will help many!

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