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Good and Bad: The Double Standard of God As I See It

Updated on May 29, 2015

The question this hub is based off of can be found at: "What Is The Best Evidence for the Existence of God?".

One of the responses to said question was that the complexity of life as a whole is the perfect example of a divine creator and that there is absolutely no way for us to have been created by anything other than such. To me that just sounds like "I can't imagine it, so it isn't possible", which is a rather poor excuse to deny the possibility of anything. I can imagine just fine the possibility of there being a god and there not being one. The latter seems to have more credibility behind it, but ultimately we don't know for certain.


You can go look for yourself for the specifics, but eventually the topic turned to thanking god for the good but not blaming him for the bad. The logic that was put forth to me was somewhere along the lines that God created us and pretty much left us to our own devices, and as a result he is blameless for anything bad that happens.

Seeing as how almost any Christian I have seen talk about their beliefs view God as a father figure, that is already a false statement. If you are watching your kid walk towards a fire and do nothing to stop them, are you blameless for letting your kid getting burned or even dying? Any court system in the world probably wont think that you are and hold you accountable.

I was also told that anything bad that happens in the world is the result of sin, which ultimately is caused by Satan. Again, that sounds like an excuse to not be held responsible for anything bad you might do. Stole an old lady's purse and kicked a puppy? Blame it on Satan for whispering in your ear at night.
The problem I have with this logic: wasn't Satan created by God? If he was, then ultimately God is responsible for letting sin into the world, and even more responsible for punishing people for something he not only let happen but doesn't really seem keen on stopping. I find it rather strange that that doesn't ever seem to cross the minds of people who say God created everything, which includes Satan/sin/jumping wolf spiders.

To focus solely on the double standard, the consensus was that God created the things that make life enjoyable and should be thanked for it. Makes enough sense until you flip it and people lose their minds. Somehow the creator of everything you experience, which includes the good and the bad, is held completely blameless for the bad that happens which he was the creator of.
Doesn't make any sense no matter how I look at it, and the unwillingness of people to admit they accept a double standard doesn't help matters much. Instead they say that since its our free will that leads us to sin God has nothing to do with it because he cannot interact with free will. By that same token, I would imagine that God doesn't have anything to do with the good that happens in the world either since its all a result of someone's free will.
An Example? A patient has a terminal heart problem, but after a successful heart transplant they are able to live without worry. If the doctor hadn't decided to become a doctor, they wouldn't have been able to perform such a life saving operation. If the parents of the doctor hadn't decided to have a kid from the start, the doctor never would have been born. If the person the heart came from hadn't decided to be an organ donor, that heart wouldn't have been available to save another life to begin with. All of these choices were made using free will were they not? Where does God fit into that in a way that wouldn't also make him accountable for creating the terminal heart problem?

My two cents and all. I don't particularly think anyone can explain away that double standard without creating a whole slew of other issues, but if you feel up for it be my guest.

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    • Link10103 profile image
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      Link10103 19 months ago

      West are you referring to me? If you are it doesn't seem you actually read the hub, let alone the question and responses it was based off of.

    • OutWest profile image

      OutWest 19 months ago

      your whole argument is made up. Even the bible states:

      Isaiah 45:7New International Version (NIV)

      7 I form the light and create darkness,

      I bring prosperity and create disaster;

      I, the Lord, do all these things.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      MM: When "you're sick and tired of being sick and tired," email me at norinewilliams4035@att.net and we can talk about JESUS!

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      MM: But He did create us! It is what it is! What can we do but talk "foolishness" in the sight of God or do what we were created for? Praise Him!

      You fail to realize that He created the creation and the creation didn't obey (which He knew would happen) but were "allowed free will" to choose alternative which they did! Therefore, repercussions!

      Again, your creation decides to disobey you, what then? Repercussions! So what's "insane" about that?

      God's creation is not "going to be ruined, trashed, and neglected as this world plainly is..." We have a choice! Unfortunately, we have chosen "sin" causing repercussions in this life and the world to come!

      We are not "evil and flawed" if in Christ Jesus but it's a choice (free will)! Is there joy, peace and happiness where you are? You can't serve two masters (Joshua)! Change the world! Be a part of "righteousness" and help "eliminate some evil" in the world if you're so tired of it!

      Show the world "you're tired!"

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      What possible alternative does the creator have when His creation rebels against Him except destruction? I have an alternative. How about not creating at all. Refrain from creating. Dont create it. Dont do it in the first place if your creation is going to disappoint you and if you as the creator has to end up punishing it. If the creation is going to come out evil and flawed and result in a hell on earth and result in a vastly worse hell lasting forever for billions of people in the next life, then DONT CREATE IT. DONT DO IT. Thats just common sense which this God does not have. If the creation is going to be ruined, trashed, and neglected as this world plainly is, then the creator should not have created such a world in the first place.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Yet, He is still GOD and there's nothing we can do about it but allow Him into our lives and worship Him which was His intent for our creation! As you are the creator of the robot, when he continues to display his "free will" and possibly overtake you, what other alternative do you have but destruction? How insane is that? But God have mercy on those who repent and follow Him!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      You know what? Please stop. You're angering and offending me. Its disgusting what you Fundies say and think. So my opinion is irrelevant? Is that right? And the creator has the right to do anything with His creation and to be as cruel and as negligent and as irresponsible as He wants? Absolutely DISGUSTING. Then you have the nerve to tell me if I dont change my ways Im headed to hell. Thats BEYOND DISGUSTING. Have you heard the saying, "Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man?" You worship a cruel, horrible, insane, stupid, unreasoning, negligent, incompetent God. Disgusting.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      I did not quote "the inventor of the car" to approve of his invention, but his saying - "You will remain the same if you continue to do what you've always done!"

      "...what is morally unacceptable" is the creation's (your) opinion! Does it matter? Is not your "opinion" irrelevant? It is what it is!

      Are you not the creator of the "robot?" Does it not "give you the right" to do anything to him you please? Whether it is the robot's opinion of you is that you are "morally unacceptable," negligent and irresponsible, "flawed," "to blame for the consequences causes by "his actions" is irrelevant! Who cares? You are the creator of the robot! He follows your command or else - "consequences!" So it is with GOD!

      Yes, your creation (as you) can "say" "He's horrible as a creator and (or) He's a horrible God," but does it change the fact that "YOU" are the creator? You can "say" these things of God also ("free will"), but does it change the fact that HE IS GOD? So it is with GOD!

      It is what it is! What can we do but "use our reasoning and logic" ("free will") which moves us farther from GOD?

      Something told me to give you these Scriptures: I Corinthians 2:12-16 (v12) "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is of God (Holy Spirit); that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (v13) Which things we also speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (v14) But the CARNAL MAN receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (v15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself (because He gives God's Word - Scripture) is judged of no man. (v16) For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the "mind of Christ!" Also, I Corinthians 3:18- 23 which says (v18) "Let no man deceive himself, If ANY MAN among you seemeth to be WISE in this age, let him BECOME A FOOL, that he MAY BE WISE. (v19) For THE WISDOM OF THIS WORLD is FOOLISHNESS WITH GOD. For it is written, HE TAKETH THE WISE IN THEIR OWN CRAFTINESS. (V20) And again, The Lord KNOWETH THE THOUGHTS OF THE WISE, "THAT THEY ARE VAIN." (v21) Therefore, let no man glory in men. For all things are yours, (v22) Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; ALL ARE YOURS; (v23) And ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's!"

      So, "your opinion" is irrelevant! What you have "studied" from "man's world" and what "you believe" God is through all of those negative statements, doesn't matter and are "FOOLISHNESS TO GOD!" Yet, He continues to "allow you" "free will" but is asking you to "Choose you this day whom you will serve" (Joshua 24:14-15)! Either you love the one or hate the other! Your choice! Your "free will!" But remember the consequences - "Eternal damnation!"

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Henry Ford is a poor moral example. As the inventor of the car and gasoline engine, do you realize the harm motor vehicles have caused? Bloody disgraceful deploraboe carnage on roads and highways, and serious pollution and increased cancer rates and time wasted sstting in traffic. Thats not something to be proud of.

      Accept it? I cannot accept what is morally unacceptable. Being the creator doesnt give one the right to torture his creations, and doesnt give him the right to be negligent and irresponsible. If He created us flawed or allowed us to acquire being sinful and flawed, then the creator is at least partly to blame for the sins and flaws of HIS creation. Hes horrible as a creator and He's horrible as a God.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Accept it! You are "the creation," not the Creator! Until you do (II Chronicles 7:14), you will continue as Henry Ford says "Remain the same!"

      God has "compassion" on His stupid creations! He "allows" them to continue (as you) in the ways "they feel" is right (as He does you)! Are you not still alive? Have you not been given chance and chance again to "acknowledge Him as God" with me being "put in your life" to remind you? When he did, did you listen? LISTEN! It is what it is! GOD is GOD and "you" are ONLY "the creation" which He "allows" free will and "look" what you're doing with it! He loves you so much He has placed someone in your life to remind you! But "look" what you're doing! He can only do what "you allow" Him to do by "believing and having faith" in what He has said in His Word!

      Since you love your creation (the robot) so much, rather than "destroy him," you allow him to continue with "a mind of his own," (although constantly reprogramming as you are being reprogrammed by people being placed in your life to remind you), but as you, the robot continues. "Final judgment" of the robot has been established - Hell or eternal damnation, yet he has the opportunity to "get it right" and "obey" before destruction, as do you!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I would never allow my creation to become this evil and sinful if I were the creator. And I certainly would NEVER create such horrible garbage such as disease, centipedes, jellyfish, widow spiders, hurricanes, tsunamis. If I knew that my creation would turn out this evil then I would just refrain from creating. And I certainly would not allow a Devil or Satan or an archfiend to tamper with, to screw, ruin, and torment the creation. If I were a creator the world would be a paradise instead of the hellhole that it is.

      This creator God we worship has no moral obligation to His creation. He doesnt know how to be kind, doesnt know how to be caring and nurturing, and doesnt know how to be merciful, humane, and responsible. He is CLUELESS. He cannot manage His creation in a merciful, humane manner, and He cannot manage His creation in an intelligent, constructive manner. Violence, cruelty, torture, sin, stupidity, insanity, irresponsibleness, carelessness, negligence, incompetence, and destructiveness are His ways. He knows no better. Theres a serious deficiency in this creator God in case you havent noticed. This God can only create through rampant evil, sin, suffering, and death. We worship a deficient God.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Did I not say that you (the creator of the robot) did not initially program the robot to have "a mind of it's own," (free will) but it acquired it? We also were not "originally created" to have a mind of our own but acquired it exercising our "free will" (sin)! Were you a "flawed creator" when designing? Did you not create the robot to follow your commands? When it didn't, were there not consequences? So it is with God! Did you "ruin" robot (and his future "offspring") by re-programming which made all future designs "suffer" for "free will" of first robot? So it is with God!

      Moral, the "first thing" one must do is "accept the fact" that "WE ARE NOT GOD" and there's nothing we can do about it! (II Chronicles 7:14) It is what it is! You were born male and not female and there's nothing you can do about it. You were born of your nationality and there's nothing you can do about it. You were born in whatever status you are in and there's nothing you can do about it. He is the Creator and you are the creation and there's nothing you can do about it. Again, it is what it is!

      Luke 1:37 says "For with God nothing shall be impossible" which means God can do anything, but fail! It is the individual that limits His Power by "not believing" or "having faith" in His Word! The "mass confusion over religion" is because of "limitations" placed on His "rightly divided" Word through "tradition or preconceived ideas" rather than allowing the Holy Spirit "lead and guide" them when studying His Word!

      You said "Human nature isnt going to heal by itself and Nature's cruelties and defects isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. He has failed to heal, and continues to fail, and this is a victory for the Devil. Its too bad you Fundies cant see this." You're right - "God has to heal it." He has not failed to heal nor continues to fail but we have failed to study, believe and have faith in what He has said which limits revelation of His Power in our lives and ultimately causes positive actions in our lives! Therein lies the problem! Unbelief! Unbelief will continue to cause one to "remain as is!"

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Wow thats great "logic" Norine. So the creation has no right to question the creator? A flawed creation implies a flawed creator. Its the creator's own stupid fault for conducting this immoral, insane, destructive, and cruel experiment with free will, Satan, and Adam and Eve, which was a recipe for disaster and tragedy. Why ruin human nature and why ruin Nature? Why ruin your ENTIRE creation in this manner? The creator is ultimately to blame for all the evils, sins, defects, flaws in HIS creation. And He has no solution to offer us and allows us to remain in our sins, defects, and failures, and allows us to suffer and die by one horrible means or another, and allows Satan and demons to corrupt, torment, and ruin His creation, and allows mass division and mass confusion over religion. This is not love and this is not mercifulness. Human nature isnt going to heal by itself and Nature's cruelties and defects isnt going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. He has failed to heal, and continues to fail, and this is a victory for the Devil. Its too bad you Fundies cant see this.

      The God we worship is a failure, deadbeat, and absentee landlord. He doesnt know how to be a good, caring God. Its embarrassing.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      As the robot you created displayed "a mind of his own" which "ruined everything for future creations," would say? You are the creator of the robot, not the robot! You program and set rules for the robot! Whether or not the robot "thinks" you are unjust doesn't matter, for you are the creator! So it is with God! Did you tell your creation that you would continuously re-program, punish, destroy upon creation? "After" the robot disobeyed, rules (re-programming), consequences (up to and including destruction) were established. The establishment of rules for "punishment" is up to you for you are the creator. So it is with God!

      You are what you are - a creation! God is what He is - GOD (The Creator)! Who are we (robots) to question GOD? Until you accept the fact that you are not GOD and do according to II Chronicles 7:14 (Humble yourself), you will continue as Henry Ford stated "the same!"

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      You're confused. Its my aunt in California that lived with cancer for almost 21 years or actually almost 22 years between January 1985 to November 2006. My mother suffered from migraine headache from 1986 or 1987 to her death in February 2015. Thats almost 28 or 29 years of immense suffering. Thats inexecusable for a God to allow. And its inexecusable to allow her to suffer from two strokes of which the second one killed her. Her last words on that horrible night in February 2015 were "there's a strong pain on the right side of my head." A God who allows this is unimaginably cruel, heartless, immoral, amoral, insane, mentally blind, morally blind.

      Then you bring up Adam and Eve. How many times elsewhere I have explained that this is unfair, unreasoning, unkind, irresponsible, immoral, insane, stupid, and CRUEL. You Fundies just dont see how unfair, cruel, insane, and stupid this story is, whether its literally true or false. First of all, note in God's initial warning to Adam and Eve He doesnt say anything about sin, diseases, crimes, wars, genocides, starvation, mental illness, centipedes, ticks, mosquitoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc. Theres not a word and no indication in God's initial warning that the threat of death would be passed on to ALL future unborn descendants of Adam and Eve. God doesnt bother telling them that the ENTIRE creation was in danger of being corrupted and ruined if they ate the forbidden fruit. The initial warning God made was directed ONLY to Adam and Eve, and not to the entire creation. Are you with me? Only AFTER Adam and Eve sin by eating the forbidden fruit does this unreasoning, insane, spiteful, cruel God decide to curse and punish the ENTIRE creation along with Adam and Eve. He stupidly allows Adam and Eve's sin to spread to all their future unborn descendants which is unfair, insane, immoral, cruel, irresponsible, and stupid. Everyone should be born with a fresh clean slate and not have to be born tainted by the original sin of Adam and Eve. So we all have to be born sinners worthy of hell for something that two ancient humans did and for something that happened dozens, hundreds, or thousands of years BEFORE we were even born. Now its horrible enough that human nature became sinful, evil, corrupt. Humans have turned the world into a hellhole. We are our own punishmen, we are our own hell. Unfortunately the cruelty and injustice doesnt stop there because this cruel, insane, unreasoning, unforgiving God decides to further punish His creation with Natural evils such as disease, centipedes, painful childbirth, hurricanes, tsunamis,etc, and now animals also have to suffer and die along with sinful humans. This is cruelty on top of cruelty, insanity on top of insanity, stupidity on top of stupidity, travesty on top of travesty.

      This experiment with free will and Adam and Eve was a ticking time bomb to disaster and tragedy. A loving, merciful, rational, sane God would not do this. What kind of idiot trashes and ruins the ENTIRE creation for the sin of two people? Does this make sense? A clam has more sense and has more compassion than this God. The entire creation was set up to be screwed and ruined by this experiment with free will and Adam and Eve. Its a TRAVESTY. No common sense and no reasoning describes this God. And this God refuses to forgive Adam and Eve and went right ahead with punishing the ENTIRE world along with Adam and Eve. Its absolutely disgusting and despicable what this God has done and what He allows. This God RUINED HIS ENTIRE CREATION FOR THE SIN OF 2 PEOPLE. Its beyond insane, its beyond stupid. We're stuck with a God who has shown more cruelty and who has caused, who has created, and who has allowed more suffering to His creation all because 2 ancient humans ate a forbidden fruit which He orchestrated for them to eat. With a God like this, who needs enemies? Unfit to worship.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Did I say that I thought your mom did not have "strong faith?" Again, I say we don't know because we cannot look at one's heart as GOD does and because of that ONLY HE knows! The stronger the faith, the more blessings one receives and you said she lived for 21 years with cancer so therefore, from what you are saying, her faith must have been pretty strong! Why do you think your relatives are immortal? We all die! Your parents and mine as well. Death is inevitable! That doesn't give me the right to "blame God!" The Creator (GOD) made us, we fell (Adam & Eve) and must suffer consequences (death) if not obedient as would your "robot" if it became "self willed!" I guess your robot would say "This is not justice because it is not what "I want" my creator is "cruel,

      As I continue to say "GOD looks at the heart" so why do you continuously refer to yourself as "A physically ugly, mentally ill guy?" Have you heard of the phrase "You can't judge a book by looking at the cover?" Well, that's precisely how God looks at one! The inside - not the outside! That's what's wrong with the world today, they continuously judge another by "appearance" which is usually a facade! Now what would you rather have, the real thing or someone putting up a facade? I think you're blessed in that when you do find it in yourself to get involved socially, you will not have to worry that one says she loves you and it's only for your looks for we all eventually get OLD and UGLY! So what? Our mothers (and fathers if lucky) are always the only really friends we have and when we loose them, we are devastated as I was! At least we continue to maintain a sound mind (with the exception of your attitude toward God who is our only true friend now)! If you continue to maintain your attitude toward GOD, you will continue to be miserable! As Henry Ford once said, "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." It's time you STOP all of this self-pity and change your "stinking thinking" to enjoy what GOD has in store for you so that you can truly enjoy life before you leave this world!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      What are you saying Norine? That my aunt and my mother werent really Christians at heart? So this makes it alright for God to allow them to suffer and die? WHAT? So only real Christians or religious fanatics are entitled to good health and happiness and everybody else deserves to suffer and die? Get real. So if a person isnt a strong Christian, then its ok for them to suffer and die and its ok for them to end up in hell? Is this what you're saying? Thats absolutely disgusting. You offended me and angered me. So going by your way of thinking, Norine, a morally good, kind person like Gandhi deserves to suffer and die and deserves to go to hell because he wasnt a Christian, whereas a degenerate criminal like Jeffrey Dahmer who killed animals and who raped, killed, and cannibalized young men is able to go to heaven because he became Christian before he died. So Gandhi who never hurt anyone or anything has to go to hell and Dahmer who killed both animals and people gets to go to heaven. This is not justice. Its a travesty of justice.

      My mother is the most important person in the world to me. She's not just any mother, and Im not just any other guy who lost his mother. We both loved eachother. My mother was my only human friend. I should point out here that Im not a people person and I generally dont like and dont get along with other people. A physically ugly, mentally ill guy just isnt going to be treated kindly by 95 percent of the people around him. My mother was the only person I truly love and care for, and the only person I need, as is my father. My parents are the most important people in the world to me, and watching them suffer and die and having them snatched away from me is cruel beyond imagining. A God who allows this is cruel, immoral, amoral, heartless, insane, stupid.

      This God is a selfish, egomaniacal, narcisstic prick who doesnt care about anything else except His ego and for us to worship Him. He's UNFIT to worship. A cruel, irresponsible, negligent, stupid, unreasoning God does not deserve my love. Its a pitiful, disgusting, disgraceful execuse for a God.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Yes, to GOD (the Creator), we are (or should be) His robots! This is what He desires "To love the Lord thy God with ALL your heart, soul and strength" [paraphrasing] (Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27; Deut 6:5)!

      The creator of the "robot" (if he continues not to listen and gets completely out of hand) will be destroyed by the creator as it is with God!

      Whether we like it or not, God created us to worship and praise Him and to acknowledge that HE IS GOD, not we ourselves (no matter WHAT we think of Him)!

      No matter what you said regarding your aunt and mom "having strong faith," only GOD knew their "hearts!" We can't go by what people say or do for GOD doesn't "look" as man does, but rather He looks at the "heart!" Consequently, I hear you "talking," but I know that "deep" down inside, you realize there is a GOD but your "flesh" is heartbroken by what you "feel" God has done to "you" personally! Do you not know that you are not the only one who is without mother, father, aunt, sisters, brothers, etc? I have no one but Jesus also! However, when I said this to myself once, Jesus spoke to me and said, "What or Who else do you need?" "I AM" EVERYTHING!

      Time does not permit me to expound on everything you have addressed, but I'm praying!

      Take Care,

      Love, Norine

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Other names for the Devil are Malek-Taus, Baal, Moloch, etc. Anton Lavey's version of Satan isnt purely evil and neither is it good. Lavey's Satan resembles Lavey himself, selfish, lustful greedy, hedonistic. Lavey's Satan resembles a sleazy man who hangs out in sleazy casinos full of alcohol, loose women, and gambling.

      Another brand of Satanists identify Enki as the true version of Satan. Enki is an Anunnaki alien who supposedly came to earth 450,000 years ago and created modern humans by mixing his genes with that of a hominid. Enki/Satan is supposedly good and not evil according to his worshippers. So what's this? Satan is really an ET alien? Satan is made out of flesh and blood? I thought Satan was made out of spirit. Believers of Enki-Satan claim he has a flesh and blood body and they claim to have seen him and conversed with him. These worshippers of Enki/Satan claim he looks totally human or looks like a handsome blonde Swedish man! They claim that Enki/Satan is good and not evil but he is an enemy of Christianity. I dont know what to make of this bizarre belief. Fundie Christians claim that aliens, ETs, UFOs, are really demons in disguise under Satan's rule whose goals are to deceive people, and Im afraid they might be right in this case.

      I'll list some books and movies for the interested reader here. The book, "The Devil-perceptions of evil from antiquity to primitive Christianity," by author Jeffrey Burton Russell, and the novel "Legion," by author William Peter Blatty. Blatty wrote the novel The Exorcist on which the movie was made. Of the five movies in The Exorcist saga, there are two sequels and two prequels of the original 1973 movie. Exorcist 3-Legion is the one movie that asks the hard questions such as, would an all good God create death? And would an all good God allow cancer, serial killers, and decapitations? Watch this movie and read the novel Legion on which its based.

      Other books and movies are The Rite, and Hostage to the Devil by author Malachi Martin. Authors Lorraine and Ed Warren are demonolgists who claim that they conversed with a demon who called itself Resililobus. This demon described itself as resembling a hideous monster with a tail and claws. Using ouija boards is said to be dangerous and is a doorway to demonic beings. Thats how the possessed girl in The Exorcist ended up a victim. The wind demon, Pazuzu, and a demon calling itself ZOZO is said to appear to people using an ouija board. See or google ZOZO the demon on the Internet. Its a very nasty demon. Its wise to keep away from ouija boards.

      In 1974, a U.S. Italian/American movie called Beyond the Door was made in San Francisco and Rome. Juliet Mills, Richard Johnson, and Gabriele Lavia are the actors. As a result of conducting a Satanic ritual in the dark filled with numerous candles and a naked woman, Juliet Mills becomes demonically possessed. She levitates, she curses and spits, and uses telekinesis to throw her husband around the room. In another scene,her two children are terrorized alone in the room when the dolls and toys come to life and move by themselves as a monstrous voice laughs. Its implied that demons are doing this. Richard Johnson comes along and delivers the baby from pregnant Juliet Mills(he's a Satanist who is suspended in time and trying to avoid death because he knows he is headed to hell) and then plunges his car down a cliff into San Francisco Bay. The family is later shown on a ferry and the last scene shows the little boy's eyes start to glow, implying that he is the next vessel for the Devil, with the horror starting anew. There is a sense of utter helplessness and vulnerability in this movie. God is weak or absent in this movie as in real life, and Satan and demons are shown to dominate and win. Beyond the Door illustrates that the Devil and demons are real and that us humans are utterly helpless and powerless against these evil beings.

      With the horrific amount of evil in the world, theres got to be an invisible, supernatural bastard behind it. How else to explain such a screwed up, hellhole for a world, and how else to explain its Satanic nature? The Devil rules this scuzpit for a world and not a loving God.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Since the 1990s, I have pondered deeply and speculated about the origin of evil in the world and universe, whether its Natural evil or Moral evil. Natural evil are things such as jellyfish, tapeworms, cancer, tooth decay, hurricanes, tsunamis. Natural evil is more or less impersonal, more or less indiscriminate, more or less blind, and amoral. Be that as it may, its still a formidable threat to my Christian faith and probably an insurmountable mystery. Natural evil just might be able to totally destroy Traditional Theism and result in a weaker form of Theism,such as Process Theology, Deism, Dystheism, or Dualism. An insane, cruel,stupid God would explain ALOT about why the world is the miserable hellhole and horror movie that it is. Moral evil is the evil done by rational, intelligent beings, such as humans, angels, demons, the Devil, fairies, and aliens. I dont know which category aliens belong to. They seem to have Natural, Human, and Supernatural qualities. Lying, stealing, violence, rape, killing, polluting, torturing, and selfishness are all forms of Moral evil. Supernatural evil is the evil done by non-human entities, whether its God, the Devil, demons, Satan, or fairies.

      In the Dualistic religion of Zoroastrianism, all evil, whether its Natural evil or Moral evil, comes from the Devil, Angra-mainyu/Ahriman. This cruel sadistic fiend created diseases, intense cold, intense heat, snakes, scorpions, mosquitoes, and death. The ancient Hebrewswho wrote the Bible believed that Natural evil and Natural good were all created by God, Yahweh. Just read Isahaia chapter 45, verse 7 in the King James Bible, where God says "I make peace and create evil." Sounds like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, doesnt it? Well, as for this Angra-mainyu/Ahriman character, he is all Hyde and pure 100 percent evil. Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is a cruel sadistic malevolent prick who enjoys causing suffering. Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is a lowlife degenerate dirtbag. Supernatural scumbag and piece of shit describes this monstrous fiend. Angra-mainyu/Ahriman is just one version of the Devil. Which fiend came first or was invented first, Angra-mainyu/Ahriman or Satan? We dont really know because there are conflicting dates given for both. Another contradiction is this that Angra-mainyu/Ahriman the Devil and his demons are unable to create anything. The same contradiction is said about Satan and his demons. On the one hand, its claimed Satan the Devil and his demons are able to create Natural evils such as centipedes, diseases, hurricanes, and tsunamis, and other people claim that Satan and his demons are unable to create anything.

      Another school of thought is that the Devil, whether its Satan or whatever else you want to call him, and his demons are unable to create anything but they do have the power to change and corrupt things which ALREADY EXIST. For example, centipedes and mosquitoes were originally harmless herbivores until the Devil and his cohorts changed and corrupted them into the harmful, dangerous pests that they are. In other words, the Devil and his henchmen changed, corrupted, and ruined the entire Natural world and corrupted human nature as well. So in this scenario, its not God's fault but the fault of the Devil and demons why Natural evil and Human evil exists and abounds. That still leaves some disturbing unanswered questions. Why has God allowed these evil beings to tamper with, corrupt, screw, torment, and ruin His creation? Isnt God supposed to be stronger and smarter than the Devil and his minions? Something is not right with this picture Christians.

      The Devil,whether real or fiction, whether one being or multiple beings, whether the cause and creator of evil or not, is known by multiple names. Marduk, Ea, Enki, Set, Ra, Ptah, Horus, Kukulkan, Shiva, Kali,Poseidon, Zeus, Mastema, Baphomet, Beelzebub, Angra-mainyu/Ahriman, Dionysus, Saturn, Lucifer, Satan. In Oklahama they have made a statue of Baphomet who has a human body with the head of a goat.

      Demons are non-human entities who are either purely evil, or who are both good and evil. Hmmmm. Satan is said to be either purely evil, or both good and evil, or good, or neither good nor evil, depending on who you ask. Just as we dont really know what God and angels are like, we also dont really know what the Devil and demons are like. Just as Christians disagree about Satan, so too different Satanists also disagree with eachother about what Satan is like. Let me go on to another blog.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Just because something is unexplainable to humans , does not mean it is from God Almighty hand.

      Moses experience proves this , the 10 plagues of Egypt. Remember that the magic practicing priest could conjure up

      frogs, snakes , to compete and other things as, well, but what they could not copy was

      raising a person from the dead, what they could not stop was the hand of the God when he open the red sea.

      logic is this if you have children you love with your whole heart , and both have colds

      would you feed one Medicine and not give the other the same when it is severe,

      the point is when Jesus was on earth he healed and cast demons from many causing sicknesses, he did on a grand scale , soon in his office position all will benifit global and as written no one will say I am sick. NO ONE ! self explained

      Isa 33:24 And no resident will say: “I am sick.” The people dwelling in the land will be pardoned for their error.

      Global healing not one person or two.

      that is the difference your experience questionable under another spirit .

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Norine this is getting tiring. My aunt was a strong Christian and yet she suffered and died anyway from cancer. My mother also had strong Christian faith but she suffered from migraine headaches and from two strokes, the second one which killed her. This is inexecusable for a God to allow. The sadness, hurt, and anger I feel are beyond words to describe.

      Once again you defend and make execuses for this pitiful execuse for a God by mentioning the value of free will so we arent robots. Ahem. For the one thousandth time we DONT have total free will. I've said this so many times Im TIRED of writing it and explaining it. Read my earlier posts in case you have forgotten. Secondly look at the horrific amount of evil in the world throughout history. Does free will justify crashing planes in the Twin Towers and killing nearly 3000 people? Think. And there are a billion other lesser evils which humans have inflicted in the name of free will. The world is a hellhole and horror movie because of free will. Does free will justify sending billions of people to hell to be tortured forever? And what about Natural evils such as jellyfish, ebola, cancer, hurricanes, and tsunamis? Whose free will is to blame for these Natural evils? Satan's?

      How am I a hypocrite? You're wrong. The hypocrite and the biggest hypocrite is God who cant even keep His own commandment, thou shalt not kill. Tooth decay, blindness, mental retardation, diseases, venomous pests, overpopulation, mass starvation, execrement, hurricanes, tsunamis, intense cold, intense heat, floods, droughts, and predation and killing are all examples of a bungling creator. On a mental level, on a philosophical level, on a creative level, and on a moral level its a BUNGLE. I dont know which is the bigger screwup, Nature or Humanity.

      The Bible, aside from being vague, ambiguous, unclear, and full of contradictions(up to 143 contradictions) also has errors in it. Im tired now.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      I’m sorry it took me so long to respond, but I delivered my freshman granddaughter to an out of state college which has taken the majority of my time in the last few weeks. Thanks for acknowledging my recovery from cancer and tooth decay. Did I not tell you that my father took me to a prophet and the prophet called me out regarding tooth decay? It happened during a healing meeting in which I was called from audience, felt something (as if “pop rocks” if you remember the candy) popping inside my mouth and I have never experienced toothaches since! Believe me, it was not “going to doctors/dentists, taking meds, nor getting surgery” that “fended off diseases.” Neither was there any “improvement in diet or lifestyle!” When one has “personally experienced” the Power of God, it increases one’s faith!

      I’m sorry to hear of your aunt, but did you not say that “she survived for almost 21 years…?” Why do you “always” look at the negative and not the positive? Who allowed this? Who allowed her to have “faith” in doctors and “a strict, healthy diet?” No matter how many “people prayed for her…” we don’t know where her “heart” was, only GOD! From your statements, she had more “faith” in doctors, taking meds, and surgery” rather than GOD. Who are we to say, for He looks at one’s “heart” not as we do!

      The “block” you have established which does not ALLOW God to perform is your “common sense, logic, reasoning, and intellect (Proverbs 3:5)! Yes, “Close your mind and eyes to reality so you can have faith in God and the Bible! Insane? (I Corinthians 4:10) Do you want to remain the same, miserable? You’ve tried “your way,” why not His way?

      God is not the hypocrite, you are! You believe there is a God (however awful) but not in what He has said? Is this not a hypocrite? How do you expect Him to reveal His Powers if you continue this hypocritical attitude? Either there is a God (believing His Words) or there is not!

      Concerning Adam and Eve, if you were the creator of a robot, had programmed him to obey your commands, but he decided to use “his mind” whenever he wanted (“free will”) to do as he pleased, what would you do? Since he now has “a mind” (free will) there would be nothing you could do but either destroy him (which is precious in your sight as we are in God’s sight) or punish him time and time again for using “his mind” (free will)! So it is with God! He allows us “free will” which we have used time and time again causing destruction then blame the Creator? He has given us instructions (the Bible) of what to do in “every” situation in life (“strong sex drive, violence, aggressiveness, territorial, jealousy, selfishness” etc). It is He (The Creator) who has designed us, given us instructions, but use of our “free will” (our minds) has caused destruction and we blame Him? Now that's insane! Would your robot blame you for “their decisions” as you do God? We are “the jackasses and the jerkasses” when we don’t follow instructions (The Bible)!

      If you would read the Bible, you will see why he made children with bone cancer (John 9:2). Again, if creator of the robot would you not want his “offspring” to worship you as creator?

      I’m sorry! I disagree! He is not the “Bungle” - we are! We have gotten so smart (our minds) that we choose to do as we please (free will) not giving due respect to the Creator but rather utilizing our “free will” and consequently suffer!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      The Bible God is a colossal screwup, failure, dunce who cant do much of anything right. He bungled in every major category. He bungled with Hunans, He bungled in making our bodies, He bungled in making our brains, He bungled with our free will, He bungled with Nature, He bungled with the animal kingdom, He bungled with the plant kingdom, He bungled with the elements(poisons and carcinogens), He bungled with the climate and weather, and He bungled with the angels(at least 1/3 of the angels turned bad and became demons under Satan.) This is disturbing, embarrassing, and infuriating. Just about anything this God creates is PRONE or AT RISK for:1) becoming evil or sinful, 2) becoming violent, cruel, dangerous, deadly, destructive, repulsive, 3) being prone to have physical defects which result in disease. To give an analogy of this creator God's behavior in human terms, this is like a human painter or artist who makes a gorgeous painting but who inexplicably decides to ruin it by dumping dung all over it. Why ruin your work? Why ruin your creation with all this evil? Go figure. The creator is mentally insane with a Jekyll and Hyde personality and you can see this in the Nature He created and in the human beings He created.

      Religious folks constantly make execuses, alibis, and arguments to get this creator God off the hook. They say things like God suffers with His creation and that we have no right to get angry at God and we have no right to complain. So God is a masochist as well as a cruel sadist who inflicts suffering on His creation and who suffers Himself. Us humans with our puny little brains cant comprehend God's unknowable, mysterious reasons. This is INSANE beyond belief. Its a God who feels the need to inflict and allow suffering to His creation and who suffers Himself and who refuses to tell us and who refuses to explain to us why it has to be this way. If we dont know and dont understand, then TELL US and make us understand. Why keep silent and secret about it? Enough expecting blind faith and blind trust from us. WHY cant He speak up for Himself instead of leaving us to endlessly speculate and agonize and then telling us we dont understand. How can we understand if He doesnt tell us?

      This God is a flunkie, dunce, failure, bungle, goof, absentee landlord. He doesnt know how to be a good, caring God. He bungled in every major department. He is a BUNGLE. He is deeply, profoundly insane. The God we worship needs serious psychiatric help. Most disturbingly is His cruelty. He is cruel beyond imagining.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      The creator of this world and especially the creator of diseases, vermin, jellyfish, centipedes, widow spiders, physical deformities, hurricanes, tsunamis, is a monster, maniac, lunatic, and idiot. Immoral amoral scum, degenerate diirtbag describes the creator of diseases. Creating, causing, or allowing eons of evil, pain, and death is a CRIME AND DISGRACE. Its unforgivable.

      Claiming that we all have to suffer and die because two ancient humans ate a forbidden fruit is beyond stupid and beyond insane. So this is the best explanation religious folks claim to explain why the world is the misery filled shithole that it is. STUPID. And its a stupid, insane, unreasoning cruel God who ruins His entire creation for the sin of two people. Not even Laurel and Hardy and the 3 Stooges would do something this stupid. And religious folks claim this God is loving and 'merrrrciful.' Yeah right, and Im Bill Gates. This God has no clue what mercy is, and has no clue how to run a creation in a merciful, humane, intelligent, constructive manner. He is clueless and absent

      A loving, merciful God would not allow our loved ones to suffer and die and would not allow our loved ones to be snatched away from us. Thats just something you dont do. Ruthless, heartless, merciless, pitiless, cruel prick who lets us suffer and die. He has no heart, no pity, no mercy, no morals, no common sense, no reasoning, and no conscience. Immoral, amoral, merciless, mentally blind, morally blind.Theres not a bigger embarrassment and theres not a bigger crime than in creating a world filled with evil, cruelty, misery, and death, AND allowing it to continue this way for thousands to millions of years. Its CRIMINALLY EMBARRASSING. The world is ruled by evil and not by a loving God.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      The Bible God is insane and a psychopath. He has a violent, bloodthirsty, cruel, sadistic side and a masochistic side as well. He's a hypocrite and moral monstrosity, morally incomprehensible, morally impossible. It just doesnt make sense.

      This God creates us humans with certain drives, needs, and desires and then punishes us for it. Its sick, twisted, perverted. He gave most humans a strong sex drive, He made us very violent, aggressive, territorial, jealous, and selfish, and then He punishes us for being what He created us to be. This is like designing a car to go forward and then not allowing it to go forward. Can someone say insane? Its His own stupid fault why us humans are evil and sinful, and He stupidly allows all this sin to continue which He supposedly hates so much. This God is a jackass and a jerkass.

      Stephen Fry the comic stated in a recent interview that if there is a God then He is a monster and maniac. "Bone cancer in children? Whats that about? How dare you? How dare you create a world full of pain, misery, and injustice?"

      God cursed and punished the entire creation for the sin of 2 people, Adam and Eve. Its so unfair, unreasoning, insane, irrational, cruel, and stupid. A clam has more sense than this God you worship Christians. So Christians, if you follow this God's behavior, you would curse and punish your children and their childrens children to the end of time. Is this love and mercifulness? Obviously not. A clam has more compassion than this God. With a God as cruel, as unreasoning, as insane, as stupid, as irresponsible, as negligent, and as incompetent as this God, who needs a Devil? With a God like this, who needs enemies?

      The longer this experiment in free will goes on the more people who are going to end up in hell. I wish there was a way we could give this God common sense and give Him reasoning because He has NONE of either. Ruthless, heartless, pitiless, merciless, careless, brainless.

      Any God or being who creates a world full of predation, violence, carnage, killing, venoms, poisons, parasites, execrement, diseases, hurricanes, tsunamis, is INSANE. Its SICK. For shame, for shame.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      My heart breaks too at what a failure we have for a God. Its God who has created a barrier.

      Im glad you recovered from cancer and from tooth decay. But how do you know it was a miracle? Sometimes the body is able to heal on its own or improvement in diet and lifestyle, going to doctors and dentists, taking medication, and getting surgery can fend off disease. All too often, prayers go unanswered and suffering and death continues. I had a beloved aunt in California who was afflicted with cancer from January 1985 to November 2006 when the disease ended her life. On and off she suffered. Tons of people prayed for her but she suffered and died anyway. The only reason she survived for almost 21 years with this cruel, horrible, disgusting disease is because she went to the hospital for treatment and went on a strict, healthy diet.

      Why should I have to discard my common sense, logic, reasoning, and intellect? So I have to close my mind and close my eyes to reality so I can have faith in God and the Bible? This is insane.. Im tired now. I'll write later.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      My heart breaks! You've put a "hedge" around yourself that WILL NOT ALLOW GOD to reveal Himself unto you! He WON'T reveal His Power unless you change your way of thinking! I KNOW what God is like! I've "HUMBLED MYSELF..." (II Chronicles 7:14), and have EXPERIENCED things you say don't happen!

      Prayer changes things! He Cares! This GOD helps by leading and guiding me in EVERY aspect of my life (even providing the least of things such as a parking space up front when lot is crowded).

      I am a breast cancer survivor of approximately 20 years! I was healed by a Prophet of God from teeth problems and have not had another toothache for over 30 years! I do not work and have NEVER wanted for anything! I have a 2400 sf 4 BR home, 2013 car, healthy children, a loving husband, and cannot say "He does not provide!" He has protected me during my "years" in sin and still does! I should be dead, to say the least! Because I have "experienced" His love and kindness, I cannot agree!

      He answers me whenever I call Him for whatever I need! He may not answer immediately, but He does answer! He's NEVER "remained silent, hidden, withdrawn, remote, aloof, disconnected." Reason: I've "given up," or "humbled myself!" Have you ever heard this phrase? "Let go and Let God!" "Let go" of your current thinking and what "you" think is "right!" Cast all your cares (I Peter 5:7; Psalms 55:22) upon the Lord and "Let God" WORK by revealing His Powers unto you! He loves and cares for you but you won't let Him operate! He FULFILLS EVERY aspect of my life for I have "humbled myself" and allowed Him to take FULL CONTROL!

      It doesn't cost one anything! Give it a try! Pray and tell Him, "OK God, I come to you with an open heart, praying and asking that you reveal yourself to me! I've tried everything else! Now I come to You for there is no one or nothing else that has helped me! Help me Lord, I pray, change my way of thinking! Create in me a "clean heart" (David), that I may get to know you personally! I promise I will be everything You want me to be, go any place You want me to go, do anything You want me to do, if You will only reveal Yourself unto me! These things I ask in your name Jesus, and I "believe" it will be done! For you have said in YOUR WORD JESUS (John 14:14) "Anything I ask in your name will be done" which I "Believe!" This is my prayer Dear LORD! In your precious name - JESUS - Amen. If you ask with a "pure heart" it shall be done!

      I love you and will continue to pray with you and for you! Begin studying the Bible for it is your "communication line" with God! His Word is Him talking to you directly! Meditate upon His Word day and night! Start with Psalms 23!

      I pray that the "barrier" you've created is destroyed which prevents God from operating in your life! For He loves you and so do I. Stay Blessed!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Its kind of you Norine. You're a kind loving person but the God you worship isnt. Actually no one knows what God is really like, I dont know and you dont know, so anything we say is pure personal opinion and pure speculation.

      In my personal opinion, this God just doesnt care. It makes no difference to Him how horrible our lives are. Cruel indifference. He is merciless and amoral like the Nature He created, or He has a Jekyll and Hyde personality. He was in Mr. Hyde mode when He created cancer, tooth decay, tapeworms, screw worm flies, centipedes, widow spiders, ticks, fleas, lice, jellyfish, stonefish, the guinea worm, hurricanes, tsunamis, birth defects, and miscarriages. The creator of disease is a criminal, monster, fiend. Immoral, amoral scum describes the creator of disease.

      I said it before and it bears repeating. This God is a blind hypocrite who cannot see sin in His own behavior and who cannot see sin in His monstrously cruel, inhumane, disgusting punishments, and who cannot see sin in His cruelty and negligence, and who cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He ALLOWS. Immoral, irresponsible, incompetent.

      So we're not to complain about God because He is God? We're not to complain about a judge doing his job? Really? Suppose the judge is dishonest, corrupt, and stupid? Would you still respect him? What makes us think that God or the creator is loving, good, merciful, wise, moral, and just? Its wishful thinking and centuries of religious indoctrination why we believe this and its not based on logic and reality. So God can be cruel, lazy, irresponsible, incompetent, unfair, unreasoning, unkind, and that makes it ok because He is God? If a human being behaved as God does He would be thrown in jail or executed.

      All the praying in the world is useless. We're wasting our breath because no one up there cares. Does He even pay attention to whats going on in the world? We may as well be praying to a tree trunk. When I pray I feel like Im talking to myself or talking to the walls. This God doesnt help, doesnt heal, doesnt provide, doesnt protect, and doesnt even have the courtesy to answer us. At least talk to us and tell us what we need to know and what we want to know. Thats the LEAST He should do. Instead He chooses to remain silent, hidden, withdrawn, remote, aloof, disconnected. Its pitiful. This is why God and Jesus FAIL to fulfill our lives because both God and Jesus are remote, aloof, disconnected.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      MM: I omitted this Scripture: Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world, but be ye TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

      I love you MM. I am still praying! For I KNOW that with GOD, ALL THINGS are possible and HE is GOD with more authority than "the judge!"

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      MM: Until you "... discard my common sense, logic, intellect, reasoning, and reality and throw it all out the window in order to have blind faith and blind trust," you will NEVER experience BENEFITS that accommodate "UNDERSTANDING" from the "GIFT" of the HOLY SPIRIT! This is a "SPIRITUAL" journey (SUPERNATURAL) which DOES NOT include one's "common sense, logic, intellect, reason and reality" (Proverbs 3:5), but "giving up" after trying "ALL ELSE" and have found that NOTHING works! Using one's ability to figure it out is as if mixing oil with water, totally opposite and DEFINITELY will not work!

      As I stated previously, IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK OR DO AS YOU'VE ALWAYS HAVE (GIVE UP OR HUMBLE YOURSELF FOR YOU'VE TRIED YOUR WAY AND IT DOESN'T WORK), THERE WILL "NEVER" BE A CHANGE! "Do not conform to the pattern

      From your conversation, you are NOT happy, so why not give it a "SPIRITUAL" try? It's time to GROW UP! Move from the "CARNAL" realm into the "SPIRITUAL" which is "GROWTH" in LIFE! A child can think as you think, but getting in contact with your "spiritual being" is movement toward MATURITY! Take "CONTROL" of your life by getting in touch with your "inner being" or your "spirit!" MEDITATE on your "inner being" each morning, cry out to God (turn to Him with an HONEST/PURE heart), PRAY, BELIEVING and asking Him to SHOW YOU HIS WAY! Read your Bible daily for His Word is HIM talking directly to YOU!

      All else have failed, why not try JESUS? Aren't you tired? I was! I was seeking "fulfillment" in man (disappointment) and "things" which DID NOT satisfy the "emptiness" within. But once I surrendered "ALL" (I told Him - " I give us JESUS" and meant it with ALL my HEART, which is precisely where He wants us), the "emptiness" was "fulfilled!"

      Maybe it's easier for a female versus a male to "give up, surrender or humble oneself" because of "ego," but God wants us to depend TOTALLY on HIM. No more "our way" but "His Way!" If you only KNEW (experience as I have) the BENEFITS He gives, you would not feel the way you currently do! Try Him to "see" Him in action! You've tried all else! It doesn't cost you anything! Why not?

      Regarding "The Holy Spirit is doing a lousy job in helping people understand scripture..." MM, as children in school, the Holy Spirit operates on one's belief in scripture, which is on different levels from kindergarten to PhD. As a child in school, the Holy Spirit does not give one a PhD in the "understanding" of scripture immediately! We couldn't handle IT! Knowing God depends on how EARNEST (diligently) one is in "seeking His Face" which comes from reading and searching scripture "rightly dividing His Word" (II Timothy 2:15) to "see" what He has said. Because of "religion, tradition, and one's "own understanding" which is not of the Holy Spirit, many denominations exists. However, this is Satan's job (John 10:10) "to kill, steal and destroy!" Scripture tells "Disciples of Christ" (not Christians which was first used as a "derogatory phrase" conned by non-believers) to be on "ONE ACCORD" but "religion, tradition and one's own understanding" prevents this (John 10:10); therefore, many denominations exist! God will NOT tie one down and make him believe or try Him! We all have "free will" but after trying and experiencing all of His Benefits, my God, (I wish you would) you will believe!

      As I've stated previously, whether we like it or not - HE is GOD! He made us, we belong to Him and we will return to Him. As Kiss & Tales said "We would not go into a courtroom and tell the judge how to operate" so why do we question GOD? HE is the judge - He is GOD! We "fear" the judge why do we not fear the Lord? We do not agree with all of the judge's rulings but we must abide. The same it is with GOD! Scripture says "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM, and KNOWLEDGE of the Holy One is UNDERSTANDING" (Proverbs 9:10)! He is GOD and there is NOTHING we can do about it! He made us! We BELONG to HIM!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Norine I cannot just discard my common sense, logic, intellect, reasoning, and reality and throw it all out the window in order to have blind faith and blind trust. God is an absentee landlord and the Bible and Christianity is a morass of contradictions and confusion. The Holy Spirit is doing a lousy job in helping people understand scripture because mass disagreement, mass division, mass confusion, and numerous different churches, denominations, and sects exist, and numerous different Bible translations exist. God is a confused being who cant seem to make up His mind and who is unable to communicate with people in a clear manner for all to understand. Or He just doesnt care one way or the other what we believe or dont believe. Its a remote, aloof, dissociated, disinterested, disconnected, detached God who behaves as if He doesnt exist, and who behaves as if we dont exist. A God who cant communicate with us and a God who lets us remain in our sins and who lets us suffer and die is a pitiful execuse for a deity.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Morale: John 15:5 says "...without me YOU can do NOTHING!" You are still here, aren't you? For that, you should give HIM praise! We all have testimonies that would break one's heart (as yours do) and we have been disappointed time after time as you have, but who else can we turn to? We (as maybe you) have suffered, felt alone, seen how "man" has created a hell on earth for humans, but we have nothing else that DOES fill that empty spot you are feeling and have turned to GOD and found fulfillment!

      We are given another "chance" (each day we open our eyes) to "Lean not to our own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5) and serve the Lord. You cannot serve TWO masters, you either hate the one or love the other [paraphrasing] (Matthew 6:24). If you continue to use your "common sense" when Proverbs told you not to and look at Scripture "in the Spirit," you will never understand!

      II Chronicles 7:14 says "If my people, who are called by my name, shall HUMBLE THEMSELVES, and PRAY, and SEEK my face, and TURN from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will FORGIVE their sin, and will HEAL THEIR LAND." Don't you wont your "land" to be healed? Aren't you tired of feeling sad and alone because of your "common sense" beliefs?

      I'm sure you've TRIED other things to overcome these feelings, but have you TRIED JESUS? Humble yourself, lean not to your own understanding (common sense), pray, and TRY JESUS! It doesn't cost you anything but time!

      Leave "your stinking thinking" and submit to Him! How are you going to experience anything different if you continue to do (think) what you've always done? Try Something different! Renew your mind (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23)! "Your thinking" is irrelevant! You CAN renew your mind and experience ALL of the BENEFITS that comes with trusting, believing and having faith in JESUS! No more loneliness, sadness, but peace, joy, happiness, love and EONS of other BENEFITS!

      I love you (Godly love) and wish NO ONE is LOST! I'm praying! For your testimony touches my heart!

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Good. I am the way I am because the creator made me so. The creator is cruell, insane, immoral, amoral, careless, negligent, incompetent, irresponsible, and His intelligence goes hand in hand with His stupidity.

      Gnostics believe in at least two Gods. The Demiurge or Ialdabaoth is a false inferior, flawed, incompetent, immoral, amoral, insane being who created this screwed up world. The true good God is remote, weak, and unable to help us. Gnostic religion is Dualistic or believes in a weak God who is not in control of His creation. Manicheism and Zoroastrianism are also Dualistic religions, as opposed to Monistic religions or Monism. Fundamentalism, Judaism, and Islam are all Monistic religions and believe in a powerful God who is in control of His creation. To me, the God of Monism is cruel and insane, and the God of Dualism is good but wesk. Either way its a deficient God, and either way the creation is screwed and ruined, and either way its a win for the Devil.

      I see evil everywhere, Natural evil and Human evil. My house is infested with disgusting, gross, repulsive vermin such as spiders, ants, earwigs, clothes moths. The repulsive and venomous widow spiders are everywhere. Mosquitoes and ticks are outdoors making visits to parks uncomfortable and hazardous. While I like hiking and I love picnics and sightseeing, theres also a dark side to the outdoors. Mosquitoes, ticks, snakes, spiders, centipedes, horseflies, intense cold, intense heat make the outdoors a lousy, miserable experience. Im often pestered by mosquitoes and I have had two tick bites. While there is beauty in outdoor scenery, theres also decay, degeneration, death, bleakness. Everywhere I see fallen leaves and broken branches. Bleakness and decay.

      There are spiders and spiderwebs and the bodies of dead insects everywhere I look. Its gross and repulsive and mames me want to throw up. Nature is repulsive as well as cruel and dangerous. The real world is like a horror movie where everything vile, gross, repulsive, deadly, and cruel exists. Horror movies and horror novels are a sad reflection of a cruel, dangerous, deadly, gross, repulsive world.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral you are very dark. And even though you are you never can admit the gift of God, Life, you continue to talk against him who gives you life. I see no wisdom or good reason for that. Because all cures , all good things , all promises will be fulfilled as he said, You also fulfill scripture by your choice in attitude and words.

      But it is God who judges I do not have anything else to say to you.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 2 years ago

      Huh, rather surprised the conversation actually came full circle back to the original hub topic.

      Not that I really mind otherwise, just caught me by surprise...

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Im not supporting the enemy of God. Its God who ALLOWS Satan all this freedom and power. Its God who ALLOWS Satan to tamper, corrupt, torment, and ruin His creation. Its too bad you cant see that. A God who allows Satan and demons to screw with His creation and who allows EONS of evil, sin, suffering, and death is a pitiful execuse for a God.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      You are so busy blaming and and having a pity party that you have lost the thought of what you do have , you have something billions of people do not have , you are a living soul. What he is allowing you can live with until he undo and completely remove satan, yet you are supporting the enemy of God . How sad.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Stop blaming God for my problems? Who am I supposed to blame? If God is the creator of all things then He is to blame, and if God didnt create evil then who did, and WHY is He allowing it? So Satan profits when I blame God? Why is this God tolerating and allowing Satan to corrupt and ruin His creation? Is the free will of Satan and demons more important? So God is testing me and everyone else? Its a cruel, immoral, destructive test. How many people are faiiling this test, and if we fail His test then its hell. Whether its testing our faith or punishing us for sin, this God allows us to suffer beyond what we can imagine.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral why do think you should be exempt from being test, we all will be . Even Jesus was . So again there you go throwing stones

      Complaining about what happen to them, there tests is over they have died, you still live and can make a good name by how you stand in trials and suffering, Stop blaming God for your problems because as long as you do satan will keep using it because it works., you are not standing up for you future. You are killing it.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      My life is nightmarish and has been since I was an infant. Ive been suffering from depression and loneliness since a teenager. People are cruel and Nature is cruel.

      Religious folks often say that Natural evils such as diseases, hurricanes, tsunamis, centipedes, mosquitoes, ticks, jellyfish are a punishment from God for our sins. I object to this. First of all, its very unfair to allow Adam and Eve's sin to spread and corrupt all future unborn humans. Secondly, the presence of humans sin and evil is sufficient punishment for our sins. Lets face it, with all this human cruelty and sin, humans have made the world into A HELL for themselves and for the animal kingdom. Why then do we need to have Natural evils to punish us? Isnt it horrible enough that humans cause so much misery with their selfishness, pollution, violence, carnage, greed, crime, genocides, and grievous accidents. Just look at the deplorable carnage on roads and highways. Why does God decide to add to this misery by inflicting Natural evils such as cancer and centipedes? The world is twofold a hell.

      Diseases are an inexecusable evil. Of the legion of diseases which torture and kill man and beast, two of the worst are stroke and aneurysm. In stroke, a blood vessel either clots or bleeds and in an aneurysm, a blood vessel balloons and ruptured. Both stroke and aneurysm are painful beyond imagining and can be as lethal as a bullet wound. Any victims who survive are often handicapped in some manner and will continue to be at risk for the rest of their lives. Why did the creator do such a careless, sloppy, lousy job in designing the bodies of humans and animals? The blood vessels, heart, the teeth, the eyes, the brain, the kidneys, the stomach, the liver, and the urinary system are all prone to defects, disorders, and diseases, and dentists, hospitals, funeral homes, and cemeteries are full of victims. The creator is an incompetent idiot, or an insane lunatic, or a cruel, sadistic, malevolent fiend. The creator of disease is immoral, amoral scum.

      My poor father had dengue fever from a mosquito bite, kidney stone, heart attacks and anginas, toothache, hernia, stroke, and died from heart failure in 2011 after a long history of health problems. My poor mother had two strokes and a history of migraine headache. She suffered from migraine from 1986 or 1987 to the time of her death. Thats 28 or 29 years of immense suffering. Both the strokes she had were agonizingly painful. The second stroke she had in February 2015 ended her life. Her last words were that she had a strong pain on the right side of her head. Im heartbroken and angry. The sadness I feel is beyond description. Theres a horrible sunken feeling in my heart. My beloved mother was a kindhearted, loving person who loved me and was my friend and support. Im all alone in the house and theres a painful privation and painful deprivation in my life. The depression and loneliness has gotten worse since my mother died. My life is now worse and poorer. When I look back at the hell my poor family and I went through and the day after torturous day at the hospital and emergency rooms, it makes my blood boil in anger. Its unforgivable.

      While at the hospital's Intensive Care Unit, I witnessed other victims of diseases and injuries. I witnessed and heard people crying, moaning, screaming, vomiting, and shitting. Its like being in a damn horror movie. What kind of God allows this hell? How can a loving God get it so wrong? How about old people in nursing homes? Is it punishment for Adam and Eve's sin why old people piss and shit on the floor? Its disgusting, disgraceful, despicable, and a CRIME which Nature inflicts on its creatures. All this evil and cruelty is the work of the Devil.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral there were people born before you , with the same experiences , but we are not in any position to say or think we have the right to move the hand of God when we want it to move.

      Can you go in a court room and demand the Judge to do as you wish when you want .No!

      That court room is his territory and position

      We do not boss the Judge around just because we have a case of complaints.

      Really if you go to far with disrepect of his position then it is contempt of court with consequences.

      The heavenly realm is the highest court of all

      Courts ,Notice scriptures ,

      Da 7:10 A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The Court took its seat, and books were opened.

      Ps 9:8 He will judge the inhabited earth in righteousness; He will render righteous legal decisions for the nations.

      Ps 10:13 Why has the wicked one disrespected God? He says in his heart: “You will not hold me accountable.”

      Even though you do not have all the answers there is no room or right to disrepect. That is what happen to faithful Job, satan tested him in sickness , and death of family , yet he survived in a good standing with the heavenly Father.

      Are you being tested? Are you answering

      like Job, or are you cursing god?

      Moral let your life count for something

      Jesus was killed but he conquered

      So can you.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Can I undo sickness and death? You ask me. No I cant. I wish I could. If I could heal things and find cures to diseases then I would do it in a heartbeat. No one hates diseases more than me. Disease is a crime and the creator of disease is the worst kind of criminal. Why do you think Im so angry at the creator and why do you think Im so pessimistic, sad, and depressed? Disease is one of the biggest reasons why Im a pessimist.

      So God can undo disease and death? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? Until everyone and everything is dead and extinct? After the sun burns itself out billions of years from now? You can time this God with a calendar, or a GEOLOGICAL calendar. AustinStar made a valid point. Why cant this God be nice to us in this earthly life while we're still alive? So God can only help us in the next life and not in this life. We have to suffer and die first. And God can only heal this broken cursed planet eons into the future. What is taking so immeasurably, indefinitely long for this God to heal us? He couldnt heal this wretched, cursed planet in a billion years. Im sure not going to live long enough to see it.

      According to religious folks this earthly life doesnt count. We're sll expected to suffer and die like JEEZUS and we're all expected to be religious fanatics, ascetics, masochists, and martyrs like JEEZUS. So pluck out your eyes, cut off your hands, make yourself penniless and homeless, deny, forsake, and forget everything and everyone you love, and take up your cross(literally) and follow Jesus. Its unrealistic. How many people want to live like this? How many people are able to live like this even if they tried to? Its out of touch with reality. So Christians are you all living penniless, poor, and homeless on the streets like Jesus? Its a masochistic religion.

      One of the core messages of Christianity is that this earthly life doesnt count. So it doesnt matter how horrible our lives are because it will be compensated for us in the next life in heaven. Well, not everyone believes in a heaven and not everyone believes in an afterlife, so the promise of a happy afterlife in heaven is empty for unbelievers. And finally, traditional Christianity teaches that the greater part of humanity is doomed to hell in the next life. So after this temporary earthly hell, countless people are going to wake up to the real hell which is a thousand times worse and lasts forever. A loving, merciful, omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient, rational, sane God would not do this. Its a misrun, mismanaged creation. The world is a hellhole and horror movie ruled by the Devil and not by a loving God.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral can you undo sickness ? Death?

      Can you undo all the the things you just name ? No man can, But the heavenly Father can undo all the bad things done on this earth.

      Just like children that run and play and make a big mess of things , soon all comes to an end , it is time to clean house ,

      This is our case as well ,for the earth belongs to Him , we are just allowed to live in for our small lifetime, but if we show that we are not part of the problem

      Of all the things you listed , then we can keep living here.

      Isa 45:12 I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands, And I give orders to all their army.”

      Ps 37:11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

      Would the heavenly Father consider us a meek one to inherit the earth?

      Because these are the humans that will posses every part of the earth, can we work with him to make earth the paradise

      it was created for right from the very beginning of time. MORAL while you are busy finding fault you are missing out on the most wonderful hope we all can have

      The real future of peace and happiness

      Without sickness and death at our doors.

      Re 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

      All these things will be things of the past,

      Notice ! Isa 33:24 And no resident will say: “I am sick.” The people dwelling in the land will be pardoned for their error

      There was cured paid for all things moral

      We must not dwell on the past but the cure soon to be given to all those wanting it , and having faith .

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Humble yourself. Im actually humble and modest. I just cant accept cruelty, insanity, unreasonableness,. negligence, irresponsibility, incompetence, stupidity, and disconnectedness, especially when all these negative traits are found in God. Its a DEFICIENT God.

      So we dont see the overall picture like God? Yes Ive heard that execuse many times. God's ways are unknowable and mysterious and us humans with our puny little brains cant comprehend the ways of God. When all of your other arguments fail, and lets face it, they do fail, you religious folks use as your trump card that God's ways are unknowable and mysterious. So that gets the creator off the hook and absolves Him? So this justifies having or allowing thousands to millions of years of Natural evil, Human evil and sin, and pain, suffering, death, and extinctions?This God is either insane or not in control of His creation. Something is amiss.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Moral: "... for using MY intellect, reasoning, and logic and for being morally sensitive and for refusing to love a cruel, insane, unreasoning,irresponsible, careless, negligent, immoral, amoral God."

      WOW!

      Humble yourself!

      Proverbs 3:5 tell us to "TRUST in the LORD with all thine heart, and LEAN NOT TO OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING!"

      This is the FIRST STEP!

      Although His Ways sound "crazy" to some (our opinion), He's looking at "overall picture," while we are "LIMITED!"

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Kiss and Tales Im not sure I understand when you said in a previous comment that there is magic in my comment and this opens a door to Satan's realm and the occult. Firstly, I hate Satan and I fear him. I have been accused of being influenced by Satan because of my anger at God. Anytime someone says something negative about God and the Bible are accused of being corrupted by Satan. "Oh, its Satan who is making you talk like that. Its Satan who makes you insult God and the Bible." Or maybe its my own intellect.

      When I said that I believe God is evil, I should clarify that this is a possibility but not a certainty. God could be insane or God could be stupid rather than evil. Or just uncaring. Or God could be good but weak(Dualism). I dont know and no one else knows what God's deficiency is. We can only guess and speculate. If God is evil, I believe He is partly evil, or a Jekyll and Hyde. I dont believe He is totally evil. He isnt totally good and He isnt totally evil but is a mix of good and evil. Morally ambivalent. Its scary enough just being partly evil. Just being partly evil is horrible enough.

      The Bible God is neither all good, neither all loving, neither all knowing, and neither all wise, and I believe He is insane and stupid and has no common sense and has no reasoning. This God doesnt know things. In the Passover story, this God tells His chosen people to smear blood on their houses so He doesnt accidently mistake them for the Egyptians as He goes on His usual murderous rampages. Whats this??? This God DOESNT EVEN KNOW who lives in each house? There goes omniscience out the window. Theres a difference to what people believe about God and to what actually is in the Bible. The Bible God is a flawed, deficient being.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Also people think they know of all details of culture , people are limited to knowledge on many things , but how you represent that culture says alot, cursing would not draw my interest , nore stoning others beliefs and rights would certainly be a turn off. Example if a person said this car is the best performing car on the road,

      And on the Highway this car is seen always being towed away. That tells you talk is cheap and so is that example of a car. So would I run off and buy that type.

      No.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral If you would really read what I am saying I am not saying it to you but through you. People who post to you , as I also post through you. So my comment was really not for you.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Kiss and Tales Im not contradicting myself. You really need to pay more attention when you read. Im not a disbeliever and Im not an atheist. I believe in a deficient God. Thats not the same thing as atheism. Dystheism, Dualism, Maltheism, and Deism are all examples of a deficient God. Learn these terms if you want to understand what Im saying. Dystheism is the belief that God exists but is not all good, Maltheism is the belief in an evil God, Deism is the belief in a remote, aloof, detached, disconnected, uncaring God, and Dualism is the belief in a weak God who is not in control of His creation. They should come uo with a term for an insane God and they should come up with a term for a stupid God. Tbe Bible God is deficient.

      Im tired now. I'll write later.

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Of course certain people bad mouth Native American religion. They are the one's that tried to wipe out the whole culture and our indigenous society. Called us "heathens" and handed out blankets soaked in small pox to kill our children. The white man's god is soo fucccking wonderful, yeah?

      I's no wonder that the Choctaw continue to practice their own religion. The Christian religion is HORRIBLE!

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral I find it very contradictory of one who claims not believe in god , and tell people to believe in a god period .and all things listed are things that were created

      are told to worship, thats like saying do not believe in a car , and then you are seen driving in traffic. Also it is very obvious that magic has been introduced in

      the comment as a good thing , it is not it is an open door to Satan's realm and used by many occults

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Moral - humans have lots of other gods, some of them are actually NICE to their humans. The Wiccan Goddess is quite benevolent. Of course, I don't believe in her either.

      My mother's people, the Choctaw, and most Native Americans have NATURE gods like Father Sky and Mother Earth. They are a couple of pretty nice gods too, as far as I can tell. At least they aren't condemning everyone that doesn't "believe and worship" them into eternal damnation.

      The Native American gods represent the Circle of Life which applies to the entire universe! Check them out, you might like them a lot better than the biblical god.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      No I do not agree and millions other do not , if God were evil we would just die without a hope or cure, we have one paid in full. But if you do not believe it how can you recieve the gift of a life down the road

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Well this Bible God is full of contradictions. He is the original, cosmic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with a split personality. He loves us with one hand and He strangles us with the other hand. Or He loves us on one hand and just neglects us on the other hand. See or google Yahweh the two faced God. He is both a kind father and a cruel monster. Both good and evil flows from this God. Morally ambivalent. Its a God of contrasts, contradictions, opposites, and extremes. He is like Gandhi on one hand and like Vlad the Impaler on the other hand. Did the same God who created lovely fruits also create cancer? The creator's intelligence goes hand in hand with His stupidity. The creator was in Mr. Hyde mode when He created cancer, ebola, centipedes, ticks, tooth decay, violence, execrement, earwigs, hookworms, hurricanes, and tsunamis. The Mr. Hyde in Him continues to allow evil, sin, suffering, and death to continue ad nauseam, ad infinitum.

      The creator made more mouths than He can feed. Overpopulation and mass starvation in humans, cats, and dogs is a huge problem. The creator is irresponsible, immoral, amoral, incompetent, careless, negligent, cruel.

      Someone suggested that God or the creator needs to get glasses to see all the evil thats going on in the world. I dont think tbe creator is visually blind, but I believe He is MENTALLY BLIND AND MORALLY BLIND and is unable to see the cruelty, the wrong, the immorality, insanity, irresponsibleness, stupidity, and destructiveness of what He does and what He allows. He is insane in a cruel manner. I believe that if we need to give this God something, I would try to give Him a conscience, for its apparent that He has NONE. He has no common sense, no reasoning, no heart, no pity, no mercy, no morals, and no conscience, and this is a win for the Devil and its a win for evil. God's deficiency is the Devil's opportunity. Evil and suffering abounds and the Devil flourishes and we have a God who allows it. Its pitiful and embarrassing. I wish there was another God, because what we have sucks.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral as you have also noted why would God allow people to be born just to burn,

      The problem is with certain people's comment they can believe in God if he is a monster, but they can not if he is not and give us a wonderful future ahead. You can not have it both ways .

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Well let's hope God isnt the cruel, sadistic, vindictive, insane monster that people like David J. Stewart describe Him to be. Yes we're all sinners but not all of us deserve to be tortured forever by fire, suffocation, and claustrophobia. Imagine being locked inside a closed coffin forever, suffocating and unable to breathe, and being burned by fire at the same time, and its forever. I cannot imagine a God being any more evil than this. I cannot imagine a more cruel fate than this. This is criminal behavior. This is overcharged, supercharged cruelty and sadism on steroids. Theres a difference between just punishment for sin and unimaginable, monstrous, sadistic, inhuman cruelty, torture, and horror, and this God doesnt know the difference. This God chooses the cruelest and worst forms of torture to punish human sin. Its as if He is aiming for the maximum amount of torture possible. When it comes to cruelty this God is an overachiever, but when it comes to kindness, mercifulness, caring, and nurturing, He is a failure or an F minus. Allow the sin, punish the sin, allow the sin, punish the sin, ad nauseam, ad infinitum is His motto. He has no solution to offer us and allows s to remain in our sins, allows us to suffer and die, allows Satan and demons to tamper, corrupt, torment,and ruin His creation, and allows mass division and mass confusion over interpreting the Bible, and this is a win for the Devil. Human nature is such and the world is such that its GEARED AND DESIGNED for billions of people to end up in hell. Why allow billions of people to be born who He knows will end up in hell? This is a seriously DEFICIENT God. Thats why the world is the hellhole that it is and thats why the Devil is winning.

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      @Moral Man - The god of the bible is exactly as he is portrayed in the bible. You got it right. Or maybe the bible is wrong?

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral why is it you believe in the man made control doctrine? But you can not believe in the truth that God is not this monster people portray him to be.

      Why would people go out their way to get people to think this way? as you have said control. Why have you allowed this control to take over your mind.

      Simply sin is paid for by death as written

      When we die we owe nothing . All is settled of what we did.

      As example if you take a Job the wages for your work is settled.

      The same as past sins .also Jesus paid for many who will not have to die in the end.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      I am happy you made that very clear, I did not know you wanted me to stop posting to your comments , granted .

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      K&T - I am no longer speaking to you. I would appreciate it if you would stop speaking to me.

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Did you read my previous comment about David J. Stewart's version of hell? Look up or google:Buried alive, the horrifying reality of hell, by David J. Stewart. Its beyond sick. He shows pictures of people buried alive in coffins and vaults, a subject which horrified Edgar Allan Poe. Claustrophobia, suffocation, and burning by fire are the tortures in hell, and its all forever, according to this sick, demented David J. Stewart. Imagine being buried alive forever inside a closed coffin and burning in fire at the same time. Claustrophobia forever, suffocation forever, and burning forever. This is a CRIME. It has scared the shit out of me. A God who inflicts such tortures is a criminal and monster who is monumentally, unimaginably, immeasurably, unbelievably cruel. Its too horrific to even contemplate. I live in endless fear of what may happen to me after I die with such a cruel, monstrous God.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Well if you allow them the power of believing what they dish out , then you feed their power. I have to for once agree on your observance of hell fire and clergy who use it . Thus is very true and exposed , thank you for truth on this subject, but why all the caos if there is nothing to hide.

      It is the truth , the real treasure in the right entrance into the New Earth and heavenly Goverment. To confuse people of

      A real citizenship . If satan can people in the dark up into the day that good God's good will is over , keep them misinformed

      Keep them acting against the true God .Then if people allow it then it shall be. GOD Almighty will not force his envite on no one. But it is your free will to decline and believe as you wish. But the truth will

      Without a doubt be manifested to all humans believing and not believing.

      This will is when God will be heard after his long silence .

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Austin nobody can make you believe in anything you do not wish to believe.

      Nore force, and vise versa, no matter what you have said just convinces me more , what the truth really is . Because you prove it just from your comments.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Christians in some parts of this country are performing "Hell plays" where adults are dressed in Devil and demon costumes with pictures of fire to simulate the horrors of hell. "Thousands of degrees hot," "Like a volcano," "Abandon all hope all ye who enter here"are just some of the sick threats they use to instill fear. Other threats these sick people use are"You better repent and accept God and Jesus Christ and keep the commandments before its too late, otherwise its a one way trip to hell where sinners will be burning like charcoals forever." Many of these people believe that hell is located at the earth's inner core, many miles underground where temperatures can reach 12,000 degrees. Hotter than an oven. Its literally like an incinerator.

      Fundies such as Terry Watkins, Mary Baxter, Bill Wiese, and David J. Stewart describe the horrors of hell as having a lake of fire similar to a volcano, worms, a sewer like stench, suffocation or inability to breathe, giant spiders and giant snakes, being mutilated and sliced by demonic monsters, and being buried alive inside an enclosed, claustrophobic, coffin like environment. See David J. Stewart's sick disgusting site:Buried alive, the horrifying reality of hell, where he describes that victims in hell will suffer claustrophobia or being buried alive forever while burning in fire at the same time. I suffer from claustrophobia. Edgar Allan Poe was horrified by the thought of Premature Burial or being Buried Alive. Claustrophobia and suffocation. Imagine being buried alive FOREVER inside a closed coffin while being burned by fire at the same time. This is no longer just punishment for sin. This is CRIMINAL CRUELTY AND SADISM ON STEROIDS. Absolutely monstrous. This is beyond my worst nightmare and is vastly, infinitely worse than any horror movie. Its beyond sick. Its beyond monstrous. This is diabolical, malevolent, satanic. What kind of monster inflicts such tortures? What kind of CRIMINAL does this?Claustrophobia or being buried alive is one of the cruelest methods of torture, as is suffocation or inability to breathe, and as is being burned by fire. Its a God who is cruel like the Devil who is supposed to be His enemy. Absolutely monstrously cruel, inhuman, inhumane, sadistic torture beyond imagining. And according to Fundie Christians, billions of people are doomed to this unimaginably horrific fate. If thats true then we should all be living in fear and losing our sleep. At least 90 percent of all people are ending up in hell. This is a victory for the Devil and it makes Jesus Christ's sacrifice largely a failure for he came to save us from hell and he failed miserably. If 7 billion people are alive today, then at least 6.5 billion of them are doomed to hell. Why create billions of people who He knows beforehand will end up in hell? Its an insane, immoral, irresponsible, unreasoning, cruel jerkass for a God who does this.He is a monster.

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Link, you might also be interested in the "Army of God" stuff - http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/army-of-god-here-a...

      It's truly scary what these nut jobs believe in and want to force us to believe in. I want to do a hub about it, but it is so unbelievable to me that people actually believe in this stuff. I almost can't face it.

      If you are sitting around waiting for the "rapture" and "armageddon", then you are totally deranged in my book.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      That example of a innocent mate clarify

      you do not have to be at fault just because someone decided to leave you mentally and physically.

      People create and follow their own desire.

      That also applies to the Heavenly Father.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 2 years ago

      I subscribed to a Youtube channel called Secular Talk a month or so ago which is basically a US news outlet for the most part.

      Its utterly terrifying some of the political stories the guy covers. The bulk of them involve religious politicians and the insane things they try to enforce.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Well evidently you are still existing , when God could still have replaced easily a new pair of humans , and you would not have a voice at all. Like the example just because you create a problem does not make it the bosses just because you want to walk the opposite direction.

      Another example people who have good mates who have done nothing , who starts to think wrong and think they can do better then what they have , they leave their mate

      and persue another.

      the innocent mate is devastated because they believed this person really cared and loved them enough to be faithful , yet that was not good enough, they want bigger and better

      That person created their own situation.

      The other mate is innocent as far as their possition in the relationship.

      Angels , man have free will just as you do in speaking , but that does not make the way a person use it to be right. Because you act the way you think .

      In your comments I have not read one yet I can agree with.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I see. So we all have to pay the price because Adam and Eve stole and because Satan stole. Yeah that really makes sense. Sigh. It really is impossible to reason with religious folks. So ruin human nature and ruin the creation and flush it all down the toilet for Satan's sin and because Adam and Eve ate a forbidden apple eons ago. I think I'll just sign myself to a mental hospital because we live in an insane world run by an insane, cruel, unreasoning God. Hopeless.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      You see that is where you still error ,

      as example Adam and Eve were given everthing perfect. They even had the tree of life to live for eternity, yet they chose not forced to do what would kill them and us as well. They detached themself from the one who keeps everything living.

      Again if you were offered a lucrative Job

      with all benifits and you accepted it and worked it according to the Job details , it was up to you to perform on your promise and contract. Then later you decide you want a better position you want to be the boss and plan a takeover. Who planned all

      this? who schemes to take over. Even mistreatment of others to get to the top

      At what ever cost.

      The point is this is what we live in , and this is what it is all about taking what does not belong to another. Adam stole, satan stole, and the last count is very great , he has stole the opportunity for many to continue life in the future by acting and saying thing as you do. There is no future in stoning the one who has your life in his hand, satan uses the situation.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I didnt ask to be created by this creator and I didnt asl to be put into this horrible, dungheap, scuzpit for a world. Im not bad mouthing about the good in the world. Im thankful and happy for the good in the world. Im complaining about the HORRIBLE things in the world which this God created or allows. You seem not understand this. If a person gave you two separate gifts, one of them a delicious cake, and the other a box full of dung, would you thank this person for giving you dung? This is the same situation we have with God. On one hand, He creates lovely things such as fruits, flowers, songbirds, and pretty scenery which Im thankful for. On the other hand, look what else He created-execrement, cancer, ebola, tooth decay, centipedes, jellyfish, ticks, mosquitoes, birth defects, miscarriages, all of which are horrible and disgusting and for which we have a right to complain about. I thank the creator for the good, and I get angry at Him over the bad. You seem not to grasp this. The creator has a Jekyll and Hyde personality full of contrasts and contradictions. He was in Mr. Hyde mode when He created ebola and jellyfish. Isahaia chapter 45, verse 7, in the King James Bible says:I make peace and create evil. So He has a split personality, being both good and evil. I cannot accept His evil side, and I cannot accept the evil side of His creation. You seem not to understand this. How can so much evil be produced by an all good creator God? And please dont tell me its because of free will and dont tell me the silly story of Adam and Eve eating a forbidden fruit. What does ebola, malaria, jellyfish, centipedes, hurricanes, and tsunamis have to do with free will? God or the creator is deficient and we mignt as well wake up and realize it.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Yes a story but not with accurate knowledge, anybody can change and add their own conclusions does not mean it is correct .we all know people who say things out of anger , and pain , and judge wrong.

      The world is more full of untruth then truth these days . So easy to blame others then who is really at fault.

      I can not see myself agreeing to someone

      who does not see life as given a gift and turn around and slander the gift giver.

      the greatest thing we own is our life.

      why act as though it means nothing by bad mouthing the one who gave it.

      it is crazy talk.

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      Link10103 2 years ago

      Kiss, I would have to ask what part of history Moral Man twisted in order to judge god?

      With the plethora of bible quoting I can't say I have been following the comments as much as I usually would, but from what I saw of his comments I would imagine he was quoting stories directly from the bible.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      If the world was a paradise then I wouldnt be complaining and I wouldnt be angry. Instead the world is a hellhole, warzone, dungheap, and horror movie and thats why Im angry and complain I cant accept this kind of horrible world, and I cant accept a God who accepts it.

      So Im just an ant in comparison to God? So might makes right? So who am I to know what is good and what is evil? Well, Ive been given the ability to use reason, logic, and intellect, and Im morally sensitive. Im not morally perfect, Im as sinful as the next person, but I understand what morality is and I strive to be a good, moral, kind, humane, honest person. At least I have common sense and reasoning UNLIKE this God you worship. So I didnt create the world? So I cant have an opinion about the world and about the creator of the world? So I have no right to express my opinions and my feelings? The creator gave me intellect, reasoning, and logic, and made me morally sensitive, unlike Him and unlike alot of other people. Obviously the creator didnt give all of us intellect, reasoning, logic, and moral sensitivity, but He did give it to some of us and He did give it to me, so He should expect rignteous anger, indignation, and complaints at the horrible mismanagement of the world.

      You continue to believe and defend this God. Good for you. I personally cannot defend and cannot accept what is cruel and immoral. So be happy. You'll be saved for having blind faith and blind trust and I'll be thrown in hell to be tortured forever for using my intellect, reasoning, and logic and for being morally sensitive and for refusing to love a cruel, insane, unreasoning,irresponsible, careless, negligent, immoral, amoral God. This still makes God a cruel monster.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral in reply to your comments we do not own this world , we did not create it or what is in it, how do you know what is right and what is wrong , you did not create the law of right and wrong, God did. So he is the original maker of all things, there is not nothing that he can not do , or even undo, he can return life if he wants to.

      you can not return it , so why do you complain of the things you have no control of. Also if God himself gave the history and accounts of what you have read then why do you judge him on your level, he has always lived , man can not control the very next day.

      As an example say you create animation

      Characters on paper , you use the tools to create live movement you give them life,

      Yet will those created characters come against you and attack what you create for them, you give a character a beautiful setting of a garden, you give your character everything , and then you give life of movement , and so you fix it where the characters stay within the paradise of survival , if the character steps out of the paradise of survival life does not continue to exist meaning off the page.

      Yet that is exactly what I hear from you.

      It does not make sense to me a person complaining about history God gave you to listen to. And you twist it to make yourself seem you are his judge .

      Not possible and will never be.

      You are in a dark hole.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      Morale Man: Do you know that neither you nor I can “judge” whether or not Herbert W. Armstrong or Harold Camping were or were not filled with the Holy Spirit? Did the apostles agree on “everything” throughout the bible yet ALL were filled with the Holy Spirit? (Galatians 2:11-21). Did not the Holy Spirit (Jesus) speak through Paul telling Peter “things had changed” under the New Covenant? (Galatians)

      I continue to say, “IT IS “IMPERATIVE” that believers “seek the kingdom of God (Holy Spirit) “FIRST” which enables one to find “truth” in His Word! II Timothy 3:16 tell us that “All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF (Prove Belief), for CORRECTION (Correct believers when in error), for instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS” (which is only from the Word of God)!

      This is why you find so many different denominations disagreeing on the correct interpretation of Scripture. Once given “different” revelation of Scripture from the Holy Spirit, it is our responsibility to do as in Matthew 28:19, “…teach all nations…” Believers should then “Search the Scriptures” (Acts 17:11) to “see if these things are so” leaving aside personal “feelings,” beliefs, traditions, religion so (II Timothy 3:17), “That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works!”

      Yes, why are you angry that GOD IS GOD? God has shown us in Scripture (repeatedly) that HE IS GOD and no one (not even the infamous “you”) “…can hinder it…” “You expect…?” Who are you? An ant in comparison to GOD! Although He loves you and “desires none is lost,” you will become as one of the thousands of others that were and will be killed if you do not believe in His Word!

      “So you think it’s OK and it makes sense to kill David’s baby for David’s sin? Wow. This is fair to you? You don’t see the cruelty, insanity, immorality, irrationality, and stupidity with this?”

      Yes, it is what God said would happen if we sinned! (Numbers 23:19). He continues to show us “If we sin, there are repercussions!” I don’t see anything in Scripture with “morality” in it. God is a “Just” God! Your definition of “morality” is defined as “just” and “righteous” in Scripture (II Thessalonians 1:6-9)! Micah 6:8 says, “He hath shown thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do “justly” and to "love mercy," and to walk “humbly” with thy God?” We should “Lean not to our own understanding (What we “feel” is morale; Proverbs 3:5) and do what is defined as “just” throughout Scripture and walk “humbly” with Him!

      GOD is in control although we have to deal with all of the chaos we’ve made which is “just” in His sight for “our” disobedience!

      Praying (Mercy)

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Norine Williams do you know how many other self professed Christians like yourself have claimed that they are filled with the Holy Spirit and this enables them to correctly interpret the Bible? Well then, for every single person who claims this should all agree 100 percent. But they dont. For example, both Herbert W. Armstrong and Harold Camping each claimed they were filled with the Holy Spirit and were sure that their interpretation of the Bible was the only correct one. Guess what? These two men didnt agree 100 percent. They disagreed in one very important way. Herbert was an annihilatioonist who didnt believe in hell but who believed that only saved people will go to heaven and the unsaved will simply cease to be or annihilated. Harold Camping on the other hand was more mainstream with his belief in a fiery hell for billions of unsaved people who didnt believe like himself. So who is right, Herbert or Harold? Either one is right and the other is wrong, or maybe, hopefully, they are both wrong. You know how many people have the audacity to claim that only they know how to correctly interpret the Bible. But you all have a different interpretation. Why cant God speak up and tell us what the true interpretation is? Why keep silent and secret? Why allow us to endlessly speculate, agonize, and argue?

      Why am I angry at God for being God? Because He is cruel, unreasoning, unwise, irrational, insane, careless, negligent, incompetent, irresponsible, and stupid, all of which are un-Godlike and all of of which are too human characteristics and too human flaws. I expect better from a God. I expect a God to be morally superior and mentally superior to me. Instead what we have is a God who is morally inferior and mentally inferior. We have a God who has no common sense and who has no reasoning.

      So you think its ok and it makes sense to kill David's baby for David's sin? Wow. This is fair to you? You dont see the cruelty, insanity, immorality, irrationality, and stupidity with this? You Fundies cant think objectively. You make execuses to get this God off the hook. So this God is above morality, and anything He does is ok? Ive got news for you. No one is above morality, not even God. If killing a baby is wrong, evil, and sinful for a human, then its also wrong, evil, and sinful for God, and even more so. So go on and keep making execuses for this God's cruelty, carelessness, negligence, unreasonableness, insanity, incompetence, irresponsibleness, and stupidity. If a good loving God exists, then 1) He is not in control of this screwed up world, and 2)He cannot be found in the pages of the Bible.

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      Norine Williams 2 years ago

      @ Morale Man: Why does it make you so angry that GOD is GOD?

      There is a "moral" behind every story in the bible. Remember, the bible consists of allegories, metaphors, illustrations, etc., and (believe it or not), one MUST have the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT to "understand!"

      Did you notice in Chapter 23 of II Samuel (Not “I Samuel”) that "men" were trying to make a name for themselves, and David condoned it rather than listening to the voice of God? Sin! The moral of the story in II Samuel lies in chapter 24, verse 17 (as it does today): "When one sins (openly or privately), there are "repercussions," which affects "everyone else" and can only be removed by "repenting!" (II Samuel 24:25) So why ask "Why is GOD so evil?" Except it! "HE" IS GOD, NOT WE OURSELVES! Does "pride" prevent one from doing this?

      Man (from the beginning of time) has always "blamed" someone else for his actions. Consider Adam when questioned by God in which he “blamed" "that woman" which was our "nature" from the beginning when sinning. However, it is because of "our sin," that the world is where it is today, not GOD but "US!"

      I must agree that "There are so many different Christian churches, denominations, and sects with each one yelling something different. We cant agree on how to interpret the Bible and we cant even agree on which translation is the correct one."

      The beginning of my response stated, “without the "Holy Spirit," the spirit of “the deceiver” will prevail! (Satan!) It is his job to “confuse” (as he did with Eve from the beginning) believers and I must agree that he’s doing a great job! (John 10:10). It is imperative that “believers” (Matthew 6:33) “…seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and ALL these things will be added unto you.” Without the Holy Spirit, it’s irrelevant to “read” the bible, for one will “never understand!” When one attains the gift of the Holy Spirit (putting aside one’s “thoughts,” “feelings,” and listen “only” to the voice of God which is the Holy Spirit), and allow HIM and only HIM reign, there is no “confusion,” for the Holy Spirit “communicates” ALL righteousness unto us, and the bible becomes no longer “a guessing game” or “jigsaw puzzle.” He has not left us (John 14:26; 16:13)! The Holy Spirit is how He communicates with us today! God does “communicate with us Himself and clear up the confusion” when the Holy Spirit is present! However, we allow our tradition, religion, “knowledge,” interfere with God’s voice (that “inner voice” again Link) which sways us from where we should go – to God! Humbly (Mother)!

      I wish I had more room to address all of your questions! Isaiah 43:13 God said, “…I will work, and who shall hinder it?” As stated before, the morale of the story in II Samuel is not whether God “allowed Satan” to enter David’s thoughts or not (Isaiah 45:7), rather “If you do not obey the voice of God, there will be repercussions in which ALL will suffer” if no repentance (II Samuel 24:25)! Even unbelievers will agree that for every action there is a reaction!

      Yes, God killed David’s baby for David’s sin and it does make sense for He has told us time and time again that “our sins” affect “generation after generation.” (Numbers 14:18) That’s why I stated previously that “our sins affect others” as with David, as with the current situation of the world in which most “blame” God!

      Moses was “disobedient,” therefore, “repercussions!” Uzzah’s death shows us that under Old Covenants man’s “WORKS” cannot save but under New Covenant “GRACE” saves! You see the Old Testament was “JESUS” concealed but under New Testament (New Covenant), “JESUS” has been revealed! As today, when “believers” just “touch or peek inside His Word” or not believe in what He’s said, you will “die!”

      As said before, “If you have not been given the “gift” of the Holy Spirit,” God will appear to be as described by your adjectives! Read Malachi 2 in which God gives warning to Priests! Jeremiah 23:1 says “Woe be unto the shepherds who lead my sheep astray!” [paraphrasing] In the Old Testament it tells us that we will “eat feces” as we do today when persuaded by religion in our beliefs! (Another metaphor!) However, under the “New Covenant,” the Holy Spirit has been sent us (John 14:26; 16:13) to guide us from “eating feces!”

      “There’s not enough space and not enough energy” to tell you all of the “mysteries that “have been hidden” from the beginning” (Ephesians 3:9)! II Corinthians 4:3-4 says, “But if our gospel be “hidden” it is “hidden” to them that are lost; In whom the god of this age hath “blinded the minds” who believe not…”

      Praying

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Here is just one example of the Bible's many contradictions and one of the many disturbing, embarrassing, immoral examples from the so called good book. In 1 Samuel chapter 24, God incites David to take a census and when David does, God inexplicably gets angry and kills 70,000 men for this "sin." Does this make sense? In 1 Chronicle, chapter 21, the same story is later retold and this time its Satan who incites David to take the census which he does. Again, 70,000 men are killed by God in another senseless, irrational, insane genocide. By the way, David repented of this serious "sin" but that made no difference to this ruthless God. He was in Mr. Hyde mode again. First of all, if taking a census was such a sin, then why did God incite David to take this census? You make someone do something and then punish him for it, or rather punish the whole community for it? What kind of sick,insane garbage is this? This deeply sick God needs serious psychiatrif help. Why did 70,000 men have to be killed? Who incited David to take the census-God or Satan? Gee, I dont know. The Bible is saying two different things here.. In one account, its God who incites, and in the other account, its Satan who incites. One of the most glaring contradictions in the Bible. Its said that whoever wrote Chronicles wrote it at a later date and substituted Satan instead of God. Why is that? Why the difference? Is the author embarrassed at having God as the inciter and so changes it to Satan instead? Did both God and Satan incite David to take the census? We're not going to get any straight answers from the Bible.

      In another embarrassing episode, God kills David's baby for David's sin. Does this make sense? God tries to kill Moses and forbids him from stepping foot in the Promised Land after all that Moses did for this God. Why? Because Moses failed to give God credit for a miracle when Moses struck a rock and water came out and because Moses failed to get circumcized. Unbelievable. What's this preoccupation with cutting male genitals? The stupidity and insanity continues when God threatens His chosen people with turnining into cannibals and eating their babies and threatens women with being ravished or rape. Does it get any lower than this? Poor Uzzah gets killed just for catching the Ark of the Covenant as it fell(what should he have done, allowed it to fall and possibly break?) Then we have 50,070 people who get killed by God just because a few of them touched or peeked inside the Ark of the Covenant. Whew. With a God like this, who needs enemies? How about when God tells His chosen people to smear dung on their faces and to mix dung with their bread and eat it. Baking and eating shit. You would think that a supposedly good, loving, mighty God could do a better job in providing for His chosen people. At least give them bagels. Instead He gives them Shit cakes. Disgusting, despicable, disgrace. Is this really God? Or is this just the writings of a semi-barbaric, ignorant tribe from the Bronze Age? Its criminally embarrassing. This God is an incompetent bungler like Archie Bunker on one hand and a cruel, vile, barbaric monster like Vlad the Impaler on the other hand. Unfit to worship. There are enough embarrassments in the Bible and within the history of religion and enough defects, screwups, cruelties, and evils within Nature and within Humanity that I could write thick books about it. Theres not enough space and not enough energy to catalogue all the world's evils, follies, cruelties, and stupidities since time began.With a world as grievously marred as this, what does that say about the creator? The creator sucks.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      If you reverse the thoughts you have said then you are very much describing yourself

      Because your interpretations come from your own mental views. Like a boomerang

      You get what you put in.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      The Bible is a hopeless morass of contradictions from Genesis to Revelation. Look up or google Bible contradictions. Alot of the Bible is vague, ambiguous, unclear, cryptic, incomprehensible. Only the long dead authors knew what they meant and certainly not us the readers.

      The Bible God has a Jekyll and Hyde personality with more contradictions than Charles Manson. He's also a hypocrite who does what He forbids, and who forbids what He does(namely violence and killing) and who creates what He forbids and He forbids what He creates. We're stuck with a conflicting, confusing, contradictory, confounding, morally incomprehensible, MORALLY IMPOSSIBLE God. Its a God who is incapable of communicating in a clear manner for all to understand and who keeps changing His mind from one person to the other. There are so many different Christian churches, denominations, and sects wiith each one yelling something different. We cant agree on how to interpret the Bible and we cant even agree on which translation is the correct one. And this God just watches us argue snd fight. All this fuss over a God who could care less. Why doesnt God speak up Himself and clear up this confusion? Mass division, and mass confusion are the end results of Christianity and the Bible, and if we fsil to interpret the Bible correctly then its hell. If we fail to belong to the true church(if there is such a thing) then its hell. If we fail to put God and JEEZUS first in our lives then its hell. Why only communicate with a handful of unknown authors from the Bronze Age in the Middle East? Why cant God communicate with us today? So salvation and interpreting the Bible and choosing the true church becomes an eenie meenie minie mo guessing game, and if we guess wrong then its hell. Why make reading the Bible like a riddle and jigsaw puzzle. Its a pitiful execuse for a God.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Oh I listen to your post of comments I just do not agree with them , and I have to read them to disagree.

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      I give up. You absolutely will not listen to anyone will you?

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      AUSTIN what ever you endorse or say I find it very disturbing Even though I reply to your questions or comments I do just because you ask . but really I dread it ,Because you are disrepectful

      Again you know so little about what you are talking about, and you say negative things about people , you seem to enjoy the game of talking in opposite . There should not be any bad or negative thoughts or words about people who help people in any way . We all need help sometime in our life.

      911 is a great example of heroes and many sacrifices made in the help of lives.

      Think about what you say before you say it or write it

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      It's not my hub that I posted the link to, it's Titen-Sxull's hub. Do you even READ what people write?

      Oh, like the "Christians" who sent Bibles to Nepal to help them recover from that devastating natural earthquake (not caused by god, but rather Earth's natural forces)???

      Or the missionaries that pass out bibles instead of food to the hungry?

      Yes, SOME people do actually get involved and actually help others, but MOST Christians just hang out in their churches and pray a lot. Which doesn't help at all.

      Where are these 8 million who "live together in peace"?

      You are the one who is blind to the real world. And please, don't bother reading anything other than your bible because you might actually have to use your brain to process the information.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      First Austin again you are wrong , you conclude that is what people do who believe in God , you think they sit around and Waite on God , you conclude they do nothing , your conclusion is not valid, there is a work going on around the entire globe this work envolve

      Over 8 million who live together in peace and

      They freely help in many projects around the world, they assist in helping in natural disasters helping people to rebuild homes , they give food to many needy , and they physically get envolved using their time and resources.

      you can not talk about something you know so little about , and really when it comes to something you post and want me to read your character has destroyed that prospect

      Because you do not set an example I would consider as wanting to act like or be.

      so I decline on that link you posted and anything else .

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      KT - here is a new hub for you to go argue your point on - https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Atheism-a...

      "the atheist worldview takes reality as it is and does not sugar coat it with false hopes or false superstitious fears of the workings of some demonic or celestial force behind it all."

      And that, as they say, is that! People that put their faith in religious pipe dreams are just using false hope to get through their whole lives. It's better to try to live within the laws of the natural world and learn to be adults that can work together to solve real problems.

      Why sit around all glassy-eyed waiting on some sky-father to make the world a better place when he/she/it is obviously NOT going to do that?

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      KT - You have your beliefs and I have my facts. Why don't you just go your way and I will go mine. Then we can quit OFFENDING each other.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      you point out we all will die to be with God ,not true at all!

      again not knowing truth and passed down wrong information would have you think this , All will not die on this planet earth , did Noah die No

      8 survivors replenish or repopulate the earth where it is now . another clean up is soon to come , we are the generation that will see the fulfillment of this coming true

      God's years are not our own so we can not count human years of effects to his Callender . But he let's us know by world events where we are in time.

      The world powers that would be present

      When the end of Satan's world happen

      The fall of false religion will happen

      Which leads to the greatest clean up of the physical earth. This is what is going to happen, and is already in motion,

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Austin that is were you certainly are misinformed As long as life exist in any human God gave , there should be some respect for life , after all there are many who are not living , and yet those who live talk with discuss and disrepect. I answered your question but I never disrepect you with answers and word you use.

      What you use does not make a good example of what you believe , also your words are offensive , certainly not would I can see as good example and choice in your beliefs.

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Kiss- I suppose we just can't be happy until we all die and go to live with this wonderful god of yours. Apparently he's never going to get up off his ass to be nice to us while we're still alive on earth.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Moral you fail to realize we would not be or exist at all if would not be for the heavenly Father , we are made of dust as said , and he keeps us living by his power house of his spirit, I am happy to know that we are not alone and that we have a wonderful Father who really cares for us. The god you are referring to is satan he is the god.of this system who causes pain and suffering.

      No matter what has, happened bad the heavenly Father will undo it all. I do not ever want to compare my self to my Father and God. Because I was born a sinner like many who can admit we are the ones that need help and correction we are flawed in thinking and decisions of life with bad judgments So I do not consider myself good, or better, and something is very wrong if you think these thoughts.

      .

      We need him he does not need us.

      It is so sad moral to how deep and dark you have allowed your thinking .

      And that is not to the road that leads to life eternal a gift from him.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Somewhere in the Bible says that God's ways are higher than our ways. And that justifies Him allowing eons of evil, cruelty, misery, and death? I dont see that His ways are higher than our ways. Im more moral, more humane, more merciful, kinder, and wiser than this God by miles. A God who allows eons of evil, sin, suffering, and death is morally lower than us and mentally inferior to us.

      So time is different to God than it is to us? I guess that may explain why in a world thats 4.6 billion years old, the first 4 billion, 200 million years of its history, of prehistory, earth's atmosphere was more or less unbreathable, and it took all the way until the Pleistocene to create modern humans 500,000 years ago, or 4 billion, 599.5 million years later. I guess when you have all the time in eternity you can afford to waste billions of years of time as this God has done. When living, sentient creatures have been suffering and dying over millions of years, this waste of time now becomes a criminal issue.

      Kiss and Tales and Stargrrl, you're more moral, more merciful, kinder, and wiser than this God you worship.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      AUSTIN you ask the question I answered you, As you read you act accordingly to what is expected. That is your right and will as well. What people fail to realize God Almighty has always been living he is not in a rush according to his clock ,he does not die , we are as humans are limited in our life cycle. That is why there have been generations of people that have came and died., yet people who have died even from righteous Able who died at the hands of his brother will return. But on God's own time clock. The bible says thousand years to us is a day to him. Also his thoughts and ways are not ours .

      We will never be on the same level or be able

      to think higher then God's thoughts.

      Or can man outlive him because he never dies . But if we die he can return our life force back . Why shut the door to your hope

      Because you can not comprehend a future of happiness.

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Utter delusion. I can't even count the number of times this preacher or that one has said - "The End Times Are Near"! And yet, we are still here and probably will be until we either destroy ourselves, the sun burns out, or an asteroid hits the Earth again.

      All you are doing is enslaving your mind to religion. You cannot see the forest for the trees. Keep making excuses for your "god". He certainly makes enough mistakes for you to have to forgive him for.

    • Kiss andTales profile image

      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Austin to answer your question if you were really into the word of God , you would understand a lot of things.

      I will make this a brief as I can, true 2000 years have passed and more , we at this very time are at the end of this system like the titanic going under, it was a gradual process of sinking so is this system under Satan's rule. Since you mention years Jesus is in office , but at this time only education is going on. I know you do not believe in the bible but the answers are there.

      Notice what would be happening in our time (Daniel 2:44 ) simply says his Government would be set up while these are standing in power. His would not be ran by another human, they have had all the years you listed and more only to prove failure.

      Jesus has been picking citizens through the generation of people .He purchased them being a Prince of the true God.

      He ask us to all be . But many decline in different ways. He comes to you and knock many decline, many hide, many put off, many will not believe or accept. That is your right and choice as well, but life will continue rather you accept or not

      The New World is on its way. The things we see now will not be.

      Just as people are voted into a job say president he does not take his seat right away, he has to be sworn in

      The time before he is he can not take action until procedures are finished.

      So like like wise Jesus has already been sworn in and is working to find interested people who really want to experience paradise. But that would be our Job to clean up ruins of the earth and live the way we were meant to.

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      Kiss andTales 2 years ago

      Star where ever you go people will learn something and that is what you are about

      Thanks for sharing and allowing others to express on your topics.

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      Stargrrl 2 years ago

      Thank you, Norinne. I appreciate your words of kindness. And K&T, thank you for reading my hubs. Moral Man, you too, even though we don't agree. I will miss everyone, even if we didn't agree. If anyone wants to, I've moved my hubs to a new blog. http://christianliving4u.blogspot.com I obviously don't expect some people to go, but to those who agree, support, get bored, whatever, you can go there.

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      Lela 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      K&T - So for the last 2,000 years we have been free? "Jesus died to release us from the control of satan who has caused all pain , suffering and death"

      Then how come we STILL HAVE pain, suffering, and death????

      You keep expecting Jesus/God to come back and "save" us? Well, WTF is he waiting on? And DO NOT SAY THAT SATAN IS RUNNING THINGS, BECAUSE HE IS NOT! YOUR GOD IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE.

      We are supposed to be "saved" from Satan (according to your precious bible).

      Can you guess why your "god" is LYING to you?