ArtsAutosBooksBusinessEducationEntertainmentFamilyFashionFoodGamesGenderHealthHolidaysHomeHubPagesPersonal FinancePetsPoliticsReligionSportsTechnologyTravel

The Immorality of Mainstream Christian Belief: Hell - a Realistic Equation

Updated on March 26, 2013
Source
Source

The Equation of Hell

The Biblical God - a Comedy of Error:
1) god creates everything, including a man and a woman.

2) the man and the woman eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...the tree of knowledge (does that mean god wanted us to be stupid? Or just to mindlessly obey - I mean, is the "wrong" done here because they disobeyed, or because they gained the knowledge of good and evil) and then banished them from the garden, before they could eat from the tree of life (that would give them eternal life) - after playing a game of hide and seek.

Edit: This reminds me of the Euthyphro dilemma only in reverse. In essence, it states "is that which morally good commanded by god because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by god". If god commanded tomorrow, for example, that all christians slay the firstborn of all non-christians (don't look at me like that, it's not like he hasn't done it before) would it be WRONG because it is morally wrong, or would it be RIGHT because it was commanded by god? The scary thing is....I think I know a lot of christians who would do it without question, regardless.

2) A few generations later, god regrets making human beings and decides to start over, sending a flood to destroy everything, minus one family and an impossible ark full of animals. It rains for 40 days and 40 nights. after awhile, Noah sends out a dove, which brings back an Olive branch (how exactly did an Olive tree sprout and grow branches in that period of a week or so if everything was destroyed? I"m pretty sure that trees don't survive being underwater, and if the tree wasn't underwater, then not everything was destroyed and why couldn't other people climb the trees?

3) After a couple hundred years, that one family devolves from grace, and human kind decides to build a giant tower that god is threatened by because they might reach heaven (how big WAS this thing anyway?) so he confuses their language so they can't complete it.

4) god then decides, screw the majority of human kind - I'm just going to favor one group of people. He gives them a bunch of laws, and then enters a perpetual cycle of a) god give law b) Israelites break law c) god lets them get captured as punishment d) they apologize e) god rescues them from their captivity by killing all the people he allowed them to be captured by in the first place.

5) there's one particularly disturbing scene (out of many, many immoral and evil things) where god made Moses' brother Aaron the proclaimed priest and religious leader of the people. Aaron threw his gold earrings into a fire, and they came out as a golden calf, which Aaron then demands the Israelites worship. Then god punishes the Israelites mercilessly for doing what they were told to do by their proclaimed religious leader. I wonder what the punishment would have been had they refused to obey their appointed religious leader, since god seems to have a problem with disobedience.

5) god then, frustrated, says "screw it" and sends his own son as a child/human sacrifice (aren't you supposed to be put to death according to god's laws for offering a human sacrifice - unless you're Abraham who is commanded to, or Jeptha, who's daughter ISN'T as special as Abraham's son, and IS actually sacrificed to god as Jeptha promised....so god should be put to death because he is an abomination to himself) but his son is rejected by the very people he was supposed to be saving

6) so god says "screw it" again, and anyone can believe in his son.

Is anyone else thinking....wow....if any of this is true, this must be a particularly mentally challenged, or just plain stupid deity? You'd think, in his infinite wisdom, he would be able to come up with a better plan, and not keep changing his mind. Not creation by trial and error. And how does a perfect being regret anything or change its mind anyway? If his mind is perfect, how can it be changed? For example, once (and I'm missing the reference, but I can find it if pressed) god was going to destroy the Israelites, and Moses got him to change his mind. Then, according to the bible itself god "repented" of the evil he had thought in his heart to do to his people. How can a perfect being repent? Or change its mind? Or is it really, really, just that ignorant? Does god just have a bad memory? In Exodus, it's "thou shall not kill" - in Judges it's "kill all of the men, women and children of this tribe, or that tribe, or the people in this country that I"m giving you despite the fact that it's already inhabited". If god can't even keep his own laws, or keep his commandments non-contradictory, how in the world is anyone else supposed to?

On top of all that What kind of all knowing, all powerful being would create a system by which his arch-enemy wins by default? Let me explain. Say you're born into the world, and you're not raised with any religious dogma or anything of the sort. Now, you may at some point in your life, come to believe in a deity. you may not. But if you do nothing, as in you neither choose belief or non-belief - you go to hell. If you choose not to believe, you go to hell. The devil wins by default. god only wins in a small handful of those who believe, and not only believe, but believe in the correct version of god. There are thousands of religions, and in christianity ALONE there are thousands upon thousands of different sects, and most of those individual sects believe they're the only true "christians" and all the other sects are wrong, and are therefore going to hell.

The doctrine of hell is the only thing you need to discount christianity as a moral belief system. Period. It is not the only Biblical mandate that can be considered immoral. The old testament is full of such stories. In case you get the idea that the Old Testament was just "back then" and the New Testament is warm and fuzzy and makes everything all better - think again. The New Testament introduces hell, where it was absent in the old. Combined with numerous other theologies and doctrines, Hell is what sends Christianity over the edge and makes it even more palpable for good, moral people to abide.

the bible is a horribly violent, sexual and sexually repressed book that I cannot BELIEVE is held by many to be the foundation of morality. And It's repulsive that, with all it contains, it is given to children. the god of the bible, in BOTH the old and new testaments is immoral and schizophrenic. It's repulsive and abhorrent.

A Hellish Equation:
As more than one person who told me that god doesn't send anyone to hell - you send yourself if you don't believe in him, I have three simple questions and a statement.

1) did god create hell?
yes

2) Did god create the criteria by which souls are judged?

yes

3) Does anything happen that goes against god's will?

no

Then god is ultimately responsible for everything, including the people that he sends to hell or heaven.


If you believe in religion, but especially christianity, since that's one I actually know a lot about, please. 1) tell me what you believe (since there are so many different versions of this religion to pick from) 2) tell me why you believe it and 3) how you can in ANY way find it to be morally acceptable. Why would a being like this be worthy of your worship and adoration? Or do you only believe because you fear what happens if you don't?

Do you Consider Hell to be Positive and Moral?

See results

Comments

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      you are very shallow. Honestly, I can see how at a first glance religion can seem immoral, but that is also cause to mis-interpretation.

      I'm actually kind of glad you noticed the bible is "schizophrenic". If you look over the course of history, that's because mankind corrupted it. Given as much, there is a lot of good that comes from the bible, but the reason for its unevenness is due in part to how it assembled.

      I've noticed most people don't just turn away from a belief in God, or any particular faith, overnight. I'm curious, if you wouldn't mind sharing, what happened to bring you to this conclusion?

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      You want to call me shallow, then ask me to do you a favor and explain how I lost my faith? Interesting.

      I was in theological seminary when it started. I was a missionary kid, growing up. I lived with my parents for a short time in Kenya, Africa, where we lived with the Maasai tribe. When I came back, I went to private, christian school up through college, and ended up at one of the biggest bible colleges in the world.

      I studied apologetics, history, literature, Greek, Hebrew and Latin. I learned theology and hoped to continue in the mission field. The more I studied and the more I read, however, the less I could accept the bible. I could not accept the god that it described. I could not equate a morally bankrupt system with a system that was supposed to be the true way to god. My religious education enabled me (much later) to become an atheist. I did not go into it hoping to disprove it - I went into it hoping to prove that my belief was valid. It failed.

      If you're going to be further insulting, do yourself a favor and don't bother commenting further. They will not be entertained.

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

      I believe that as the highest intelligence on Earth we should use our intelligence. Faith doesn't use that intelligence because you only have to obey.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      I must apologize for my rash comment. I am often impulsive and hot-headed (not to mention a debator) and when I get excited I say/type things without thinking. Thank you for sharing your story with me

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I'm a debater too - but I try to stay away from Ad-Hominem attacks. Don't you?

    • profile image

      graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

      JMcFarland- You stated " I went into it hoping to prove that my belief was valid".

      You were seeking proof of what requires faith. Faith is believing, when there's an absent of proof.

      I will not make any other comment to your HUB. Best wishes

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      Usually. Due to life experiences growing up I try to avoid conflict, but I'd have to highlight the definition of "Arising from or appealing to the emotions" of Ad Hominem. When I'm really passionate about something I often don't think about what I'm saying, so much as I try to bring a point across (which may or may not be in the best approach). I'm working on it still.

      I guess you can say I got a little jumpy about it because I, like you, have served (or rather still am) a Mission. for 6 months I was in Minnesota, and during that time in my studies I learned so much, I came to understand so many concepts and why things were the way they were, it was mind-blowing for me. Hence the passionate.

    • nyamburamwangi profile image

      JANE MWANGI 4 years ago from NAIROBI, KENYA

      Can only say this, you are only halfway round the circle. Don't be surprised if you find yourself coming to the same discovery ( not conclusion), but discovery -that there is none before him and after him there is no other. He has created you with a finite mind, but his knowledge and wisdom is infinite. How does your finite mind comprehend the creator of all you see? The highest heavens, the earth, the seas, everything. Start by comprehending yourself. Do you even come to comprehend all that there is about yourself? And if you say as some have said that there is no creator, I say open your eyes. If you are reasonable, you will not sit comfortably with a conclusion that it came all by itself. It doesn't wash. I also know that some disappointments with the God of the bible, many walk away from Him. But to where? They find no alternative because there is none. They go round circle.

      http://www.everystudent.com/wires/atheist.html

    • nyamburamwangi profile image

      JANE MWANGI 4 years ago from NAIROBI, KENYA

      I forgot to finish with this. That people will normally 'feel they are disappointed" with the God of the Bible and walk away from him. And because there isn't another, they go round circle. When they come back to him, they really search for him with all their heart and they find Him. But its never easy. I pray that you find Him.

    • f_hruz profile image

      f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      Congratulations to a very interesting hub ... thanks for adding the comment how you got that far!

      Now aren't you pleased?

      How nice, the kind lady is praying for you to find god ... again :)

      Let me ask her though: Can you imagine for a moment, seriously, NATURE being free from any religion and not requiring any god or any man-made holy stories to have the earth go around the sun to make the day and the night, the four seasons, solar flairs, sun tans and skin cancer, so why do you wast your time believing unreal religious myths instead of discovering all there is about the real world and NATURE?

      You could be developing your mental and emotional capacity more fully instead ... what makes you want to pray to a highly unreal, non-existing human fabrication?

      Why don't you want to learn more about how things REALLY are, instead?

      There is no hell or heaven, baby and chances are better than 1:1,000,000 there are no gods, darling ... no Christian god or any other kind either!

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      f_hruz: That is interesting as well. I took your challenge and thought about the world without a creator for a moment. Its rotation, the seasons, the complete detail and inner workings/laws of nature, but this thought comes to mind: Its TOO perfect. How does this all come to chance? The fact that the earth has 4 seasons and life is able to bear through them, the rise and fall of the tides, the creation of life and reproduction. It just seems way too complex for any big-bang theory to create. Does an explosion in a print shop create a dictionary?

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      graceinus - I went into it wanting to do what the bible commanded. 1 Peter states that we should all be able to give a reason for the hope that we have. When I went looking for that reason, I realized how repulsive, immoral and repugnant that belief system was. I wish you could open your eyes.

      Wakerra - you think creation is perfect? Far from it. There's a great article on this imperfect, flawed design here. Additionally - you were on a mission trip in MINNESOTA? I was in Africa for cripes sake. Who is there to minister to in minnesota who don't already know? http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Argum...

      nyamburamwangi - I lived in Kenya for two years with my missionary parents. I know what's happening in your country - and other countries like it. Torturing children. Burning people alive. All in the name of god. It's a modern day inquisition and it's horrific. I feel guilt for any part that my ministry there played in that. If the god of the bible is true - he's a monster. Even if you could prove that he exists, I would still never worship such an evil dictator.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      I didn't choose to go to Minnesota, so much as it was where I was destined to be. I didn't so much understand it at first, but through my experiences I knew that there were a couple people that were being prepared specifically for me. When I fulfilled my purposes in Minnesota, God called me back home to complete my mission in service.

      Yes, there are flaws in the world, its called Opposition. We can't learn, develop or grow without it. What I find too perfect is the laws of nature, and all the things that are good in the world, just the detail in the smallest organism even!

      If I might inquire from you again, in your studies that lead you to not believe in God, in a general summary, what, or whom do you perceive God to be?

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      did you even peruse the link I provided about all of the flaws in your "perfect design" hypothesis?

      I was raised southern baptist. I was told that the bible was the infallible word of god - and trained to believe it. I think I can still recite a lot of it from memory - and I still read it daily. I'm an atheist because I don't perceive god to be anything more than a figment of our imaginations - there's no more proof for him than there is for unicorns. Although - there are pictures of unicorns, so maybe not.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      Yes, I followed the link, but I'm trying to avoid debate, I've learned lately that gets nowhere fast.

      I can see how the first failure would be having ingrained into you that the bible is infallible. Though sad to say, most people believe this also. Again I can agree with you that the bible is schizophrenic, and again that goes back to how it was assembled in its course of history. While I can't do anything about how you were raised and taught to believe, I can expound that while the bible may be sparse, spotty, and even sometimes controversial, its not all bad, and for you to still read from it daily I'm sure you believe this too. The fact that one book was able to bring an entire world to the knowledge of God and Jesus, and establish such a strong faith and conviction with a lot of people is absolutely amazing! But with one book missing so many pieces, comes many different interpretations. The Bible by itself just isn't enough to come to any solid conclusions. This is where The Book of Mormon comes in. Much like the Old Testament is incomplete with out the New Testament, the Bible is incomplete with out Another Testament, The Book of Mormon.

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I see no more reason to believe the book of mormon than i do the bible. I can't accept the idea of polygamy in eternity, every man becoming a god, magic underwear, etc.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      oh wow the internet gossip really got to you, didn't it? That's the one thing that makes it difficult to share beliefs. There is just so much mis-constrewed information out there. I even wrote an entire article over a lot of the crazy rumors that float around, you are welcome to look at it if you want, but that is up to you

      https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/how-well-...

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      not the internet gossip. I've talked to many, many mormons. I've read the book of mormon. I've researched it all on my own without using the internet at all.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      but still, the "magic underwear" is straight rumor. We have a garment, yes, but then again, a lot of faiths have robes, or special caps and things. We just wear ours on underneath. might I ask did you read the Book of Mormon just to read it, or did you study it much like you did the Bible in your mission? Personally I have studied between both books during my short 6 months, having never read either of them before (I knew a few stories, some passages and a couple chapters, but to actually sit down and read/study through it was something else) For me personally, I'd learned more in that 6 months than I had ever attending church growing up to that point

    • profile image

      robin811 4 years ago

      Whenever the God or the Bible is questioned based on rational, logical criteria, Christians are quick to respond with the concept that we aren't to use rational, critical thinking when it comes to spiritual matters, we are to use "faith". apparently their definition of faith is a blind, unquestioning belief based on emotion (and whatever their preacher or Sunday School teacher told them) Never mind that the Bible itself does not support this concept, it is actually completely impossible to use this kind of faith as a criteria for determining truth. For example, we are supposed to accept on faith the principle that the Bible is the inerrant inspired word of God. Why? Because it says so. (2 Timothy 3:16, the real irony is that nearly all critical Bible scholars consider both the Timothy's to be forgeries written in Paul's name long after his death.) That is circular logic at best. Any writing can claim divine inspiriation, and many do. So why not put my faith in Islam, the book of Mormon, the writings of Ellen G. White, Mary Baker Eddy, Elizabeth Claire Prophet, David Koresh or the beliefs of Wiccan, the ancient Mayans, etc. If I can't apply rational logic to my decision then there is no reason at all not to choose any of these as my belief system. the real truth is that nobody has a problem with applying logic and reason to a belief system that they don't personally hold as valid, in fact they take great pleasure in pointing out the logical reasons that others beliefs do not stand up to reason. But if their own belief system is subjected to the same scrutiny, the response is "Faith is believing, when there's an absence of proof." And apparently even when there is a preponderance of contrary evidence.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      Robin: Interesting. You do prove a valid point. Sometimes the excuse of "faith" is used due to lack of evidence, ignorance, or just as a backdoor out. Personally I see faith and logic working together, though faith usually precedes logic. Anybody can prove anything "logically", and what they can't they use "according to quantum science and physics" Seeing isn't always believing, there is so much evidence in the world to prove a lot of things, but people still don't believe what's right in front of them. It mostly comes down to a desire, or a want to know, this is often where faith comes in. However, faith isn't really faith until it's tested. Faith is often likened to a seed, something that takes time, care, and work. I once wrote a talk about faith, and as I spoke on my topic it centered around a garden. Just because we plant our garden crops and water them doesn't mean they won't face the elements from time to time. Its our choice if we decide to abandon all hopes, or start over until we succeed. The logic comes in after we endure in faith. "Dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after a trail of your faith"

    • secularist10 profile image

      secularist10 4 years ago from New York City

      Another potential diagnosis for the God of the Bible would be multiple personality disorder. Isn't it interesting that behavior that would warrant life imprisonment or permanent, lifelong institutionalization for a human being, is totally acceptable for the creator of everything, the most perfect being in existence?

      Moral bankruptcy certainly describes Christianity. It's why there is such staggering moral and ethical diversity in a religion that is supposed to offer eternal, unchanging, absolute truths.

      Voting up this article, J, keep them coming.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      I am a Christian JM, and I have to say that I like this hub. The real problem with Christians and scripture is that scripture suffers more by Christians than it does by nonchristians. They read scripture based on their carnal desires and end up with a doctrine such as hell. Don’t get me wrong, hell exists. But it secretly exist in the desires of the hearts of those who so ardently support the ridicules belief that God would create such a place. Thank God for the apostle Paul who brought us the gospel of reconciliation of all (Including you JM) with God. I am not here to debate with atheists JM, I just wanted to post my opinion, and btw. It is thou shall not murder.

    • profile image

      robin811 4 years ago

      Wakerra: I do believe that there is a place for faith. Just for a point of reference, I spent 40 years of my life as a fundamentalist Christian. I still attend church, even though my beliefs have shifted dramatically in terms of the inspired, inerrant view the bible. My issue is what to base that faith on. The idea that faith comes first and then the proof later appears to me to be predetermining the outcome and then ignoring anything that doesn't fit that predetermination. It's been shown that if a person believes something strongly they will ignore evidence to the contrary, and amplify anything that supports their belief. They will truly believe that they are seeing proof of their belief, when someone with the opposite belief can experience the same things and in their minds think it proves their opposite belief system. How else can one explain the incredibly diverse and contradictory belief systems that are all based on the Bible? I have come to the decision that if faith in God is to be a part of my life, it has to start with rational logical evidence. I had the kind of faith you are talking about for 40 years. When I started seeing things in the Bible it self that seriously cast doubt on that faith I turned to fundamentalist apologetic books to bolster it. But once I let a crack of rational thinking in, I could see the sometimes bizarre and desperate logic that the apologetic field is forced to employ. Faith based on nothing but blind belief is a house of cards.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      Robin: True, complete and utter blind faith will lead to ones demise. I don't completely live off blind faith, though there are times when it is necessary. I often think back to the 3rd Indiana Jones Movie with the "Leap from the Lion's Head" in cases like that. Sometimes we can't see the logic in something, and its not until we test it that we find it.

      I guess its really to describe spiritual feelings and confirmations, I don't doubt we need logic, and yes, people can claim logical explanations to fit what they believe, but it doesn't always make it right. Aside from faith and logic there is a third element: Truth, and more importantly, spiritual truth. We can't know of truths without prayer and spiritual confirmation, and that is something that is personal and differs between people. Amid all the chaos, ideas, opinions and logic, there is truth in all things. Who in this entire universe would know the answer and truth to everything? If we honestly and sincerely seek, he will answer us. Sometimes we get an answer almost instantaneously, but more times than not, it's a gradual process. It takes work and diligent seeking on our part, and slowly we begin to find our answers. How can we tell if our answers are coming from God? Because as I mentioned before, everybody feels the spiritual confirmations differently. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance..." Galatians 5:22-23 If there is an absence of any of these feelings in our findings, it is not from God

    • profile image

      robin811 4 years ago

      Maybe this has gotten a little bit off the original topic for this Hub, but it has thinking about the process of faith and exactly what that is. I'm going to do some research and write a hub on this specific topic. I know exactly where you are coming from, I lived that type of faith for years. Now I have questions about exactly what the faith process is and if there is any validity to it. I've been looking for my first Hub topic and this will make a good line I think.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      Robin: Good luck! if I may offer one source for your research? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/faith?lang=eng&a... up to you if you want to look at it. there's not much there, but it offers a point of view

    • profile image

      robin811 4 years ago

      Thank you! I will have a look at that.

    • nyamburamwangi profile image

      JANE MWANGI 4 years ago from NAIROBI, KENYA

      Jmcfarland,

      nyamburamwangi - I lived in Kenya for two years with my missionary parents. I know what's happening in your country - and other countries like it. Torturing children. Burning people alive. All in the name of god.

      Not sure what you mean and do not in which part of the country you lived or say it. But all in all, evil is in every part of the world. And I have news for you, its going to get worse.

      Why do I say so? Because the bible says saw- In the last days evil will increase. Yes. The same bible and I believe it.

      So why should I not believe it? Because it has predicted things and they come to pass thousands of years down the line, eg Israel will be a nation again many years after their scattering. And other things like it will be a heavy stone. And I bet that nation is one heavy stone despite the many nations that have attempted to move it. The God of the Bible enabled his prophets to foretell this and many other things. And concerning evil increasing I already see how it is increasing, just as it was said.

      We are the ones that get hurt by the evil we do. It does not hurt God.

    • SwordofManticorE profile image

      SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

      @nyamburamwangi your belief about end days and Israel is unbiblical.

    • profile image

      Honest Question 4 years ago

      Where is the holocaust in the bible?

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      What does the holocaust have to do with the Bible?

    • nyamburamwangi profile image

      JANE MWANGI 4 years ago from NAIROBI, KENYA

      JMc,

      If you are saying it predicted it, well there it is. If you are saying it caused it no i do not think so. Still if you are saying God approved it, again I disagree. But yes it did not happen behind his back.

      If it makes you angry, and even makes you question his reasons, well you will not be the first. What I do know is that sometimes when things do not go our way as human beings, we begin to wonder whether God knows what He is doing. We start to demand answers just like Job in the bible and many others in the history have done. But we are forewarned by Him, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts". But where can you go to hide from your creator?

      Isaiah 45:9 Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'He has no hands'?

      When God shows up, man is totally wiped out. All our bravado is totally forgotten. We often find ourselves saying we should't have opened our mouths at all.

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I'm not saying anything. Someone asked me about the holocaust, and I'm really not interested in preaching in order to promote your religion on my hub

    • f_hruz profile image

      f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      nyamburamwangi, you are clearly brainwashed ... your god delusions form a substantial problem for you to be ever able to even grasp reality!

    • nyamburamwangi profile image

      JANE MWANGI 4 years ago from NAIROBI, KENYA

      Hi,

      Do you know another line, other than brainwashed and delusions? With all you claim you should know to win an argument than getting personal to simply get the other to stop. Its forced me to ask though I could refrain. Now my friend its not a brainwash, its a brain transplant. Why? Because, here I go again.. I was completely wiped out. By what? By sin my friend..

      Now my friend F-hruz, I see a problem here, we will not agree and the bible (again!) has an explanation to that - its called being blind. Because we could never see the same things, this debate ends here because I am saying "look" and you are saying "where". Clearly I have seen the futility.

    • f_hruz profile image

      f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      Hi,

      good ... I can fully grasp the impact of religious insanity - you can't win any reasonable argument with people who do not understand the dimensions of the basic question: "Where does god live?"

      http://web.295.ca/fh/cos/

      Best wishes!

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 4 years ago from Tasmania

      Why did this thread stop?! Maybe because those christism zealots could not find any new information in their minds that could change their thinking.

      Anyway, great Hub, JMcF.

    • JMcFarland profile image
      Author

      Julie McFarland 4 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      beats me. I think that a lot of these people are not accustomed to encountering well-informed, well-versed non-believers, which leads me to believe that they must not encounter many non-believers, because most of the atheists/agnostics I know are more aware of the bible than believers are. When they realize they can't "win", they back out. It's a shame, really.

    • f_hruz profile image

      f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      One question I keep asking, after discovering the dead-end argument for a man made, supernatural deity who has to guide nature and all things within our universe: How does nature impose it's laws on the real world to provide for continues change, giving raise to intelligent life forms at various levels of development which clearly display a growing ability to learn, adapt and evolve ... possibly somewhat retarded in religious types? :)

      Question: Does the Tasmanian Devil only exist in your neck of the woods?

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 4 years ago from Tasmania

      I am tempted to start another discussion based upon your first question, f hruz. Will think about it for a while.

      Your second question.... yes, there are just a few Tasmanian Devils in the forest surrounding my home. Not many, but enough to feel their demise is not fully here yet.

      This animal has got a lot of main-stream media attention because of it's apparent ferocious nature, coupled with it's endearing appearance.

      Other animals, equally if not more-so endangered, have had much less attention. The general public (I, we) tends to bend with the wind. We cannot grasp conceptually the problems which don't directly effect us personally and will look the other way, hoping things will sort themselves out without us worrying.

      In context with JMcFarland's hub, if all the hype about religious affiliations could be directed at improving our physical world and preserving it with good common sense, then everyone would be better off, IMHO!

    • f_hruz profile image

      f_hruz 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, Canada

      Thanks for the comments. It's good to know, at least Tasmanian Devils don't require any exorcism ... :)

      One thing I am ever more sure about, nature imposes her confines on reality and any discoveries how to progress in the scientific realm can only be made by asking meaningful questions.

      "Who created nature, if not some man made deity?" is not among the more intelligent questions I see much meaning in ... looking for the natural source of intelligence, on the other hand, may quite likely point us at the result of the basic process which requires all forms of life to try to learn to cope with things in the real world ever more successfully.

    Click to Rate This Article