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In the Beginning... God or Matter?

Updated on August 7, 2018

In the beginning...

The bible starts with these words. In the beginning. In the beginning  of what? Existence? We as Christians must have answers if we are to be effective in reaching out to a lost and dying world. Let's be willing to put our faith to the test. Let's examine what we believe from an objective viewpoint.

So many of us simply believe what we believe because someone else told us this is what we should believe. How strong can that foundation be? No rational thought? Just because someone else said it was so? I feel it is true? He speaks to my heart? Are these rational reasons to believe? Many of you reading this have also read my hub on Infinite regression. I spoke of how we can logically conclude the existence of God through rational critical analysis of the facts. This is a companion piece I am writing as much for myself as anyone else. I write this because I have once again been challenged in my reasoning for faith. I asked myself, "would I die for my belief?" I wasn't expecting my answer to be unsure. It was. I asked myself, "Why do I believe what I believe?" Well...I believe what I believe because there was a time when I was searching for answers and purpose and redemption and my grandmother gave me a bible. I never questioned it I just read it and believed it. Recently that fact was pointed out to me. The foundation for my faith was that someone told me the bible was true and I simply believed on that basis.

I have been conversing with one of the brightest minds in the world over the past few weeks. He is foremost in the world of critical analysis. His words have caused me to really question what I believe as well as why. I knew this would be dangerous territory going in, but I also decided that if God cannot stand in the face of objective critical analysis, He was not God. For me to be willing to not only lay down my life inservice to Him, but also be willing to Die for that faith, I better be certain of my belief. Can you see the words I am using? Belief. Faith? Are these terms as strong as Fact or rational? They need to be if I'm going to be willing to live and die for them.

In the beginning

I started out this piece with a question. In the beginning of what? I was going to use the word time but replaced it with existence. Let's look at existence and time together. Did time have a beginning? Could existence have a beginning? It comes down to this. Either matter is eternal and without cause or God is eternal and without cause. It's a leap of faith either way because in the end it SHOULD just be one infinite eternal void and we shouldn't be here to discuss it. But we are and so the question needs to be asked. Which one is more rational?

We believe in a God who never had a moment when He became self aware. Try and wrap your mind around that. My friend believes that matter is eternal and without beginning. He put my God to the test. He started with the different possibilities for the creation or starting point of matter with God being creator. The first possibility he considered was.

God created matter out of nothing. He asked how something could be created out of nothing. It's like multiplying by zero. Nothing is NOTHING.

The second premise was that God created out of himself. Which means that what we call existence are really parts of God Himself. Since matter cannot be created from nothing, for the universe to exist, from a creationist view it would either have to be part of the existing eternal God, or for matter to be eternal without God.

The third scenario is that God caused creation of what we call the universe by taking what already existed and perfoming causal action on it. Like a man taking a tree and turning it into a table. Without the tree, there could be no table.

He was FAR more detailed in his reasoning. All 3 scenarios ended with the conclusion that God could not be the cause for the existence of matter, therefore matter is eternal and without cause. We seem to have a winner! Not so fast my friend.

Just because something seems to make sense it doesn't neccessarily make it true

I will use an example that my friend gave.

1) Atoms are invisible to the naked eye.

2) The human body is made up of atoms.

3) The human body is invisible to the naked eye.

The first 2 premises are true and based on them we should be able to logically conclude that number 3 would be true as well. Is it? I think NOT!

He concludes that space is without cause. How could we argue with that. I could agree that space would exist without God. But that would be all that would exist. He concludes that by presentation of his analysis in the previous text, matter is eternal and without cause. Let's start there.

In the beginning... matter. without cause... eternal. This lifeless matter performed causal action without thought or purpose on other matter. Atoms bouncing around affecting each other, colliding eternally, without life or thought. Until one day BOOM!!! They formed spherical obects like sun moon planet. But they didn't stop there. Oh no, these causeless, lifeless, thoughtless, atoms randomly thoughtlessly came together to form an atmoshere over the one "lucky" planet we call Earth! How serendipitous! This lifeless thoughtless collection of atoms didn't stop there either. Hydrogen atoms, joined with oxygen atoms and became what we call water. All without any intelligence behind it. But wait there's more! Hmmmm! Lifeless, thoughtless atoms randomly got together with other lifeless thoughtless atoms to form... let's start with a blade of grass. That shouldn't be too much to ask from lifeless thoughtless atoms that are credited with being responsible for all of existence should it? The problem is grass is a LIVING thing. These are lifeless thoughtless causers. How did lifeless thoughtless causers jump from lifeless to life?

It's like multiplying by zero to me. Lifeless x Lifeless= Lifeless. Always will. Under this scenario we are asked to believe that these lifeless thoughtless atoms came together to form complex beings such as sea creatures, and wildlife that roam the Earth. These lifeless thoughtless atoms went on to form man. Huh!? That's a pretty neat trick considering how complex we are. We don't just exist on instinct, we have powers of reasoning. We can assess situations and predict outcomes. We can communicate verbally, through the written word and body language. All because atoms bounced off each other JUST right. Pretty impressive, especially for something that is lifeless and thoughtless.

The reason I BELIEVE

If matter is eternal it would always be lifeless. You can't produce life without all the ingredients necessary for it. No tree, no table. More than that. No MAN,(causal force) no tree,(target object) no table (caused existence). No matter, no existence. But there is matter. Matter alone could never produce life. So I conclude, God took matter (Which He created) and made lifeless thoughtless matter into a living thing. It takes life and intelligence to create, not random bouncing of lifeless thoughtless atoms off of other lifeless thoughtless atoms.

My friend was very persuasive in his presentation. Based on his reasoning I had no refute. I told him he "killed God". I was ready to throw in the towel. God led me on a journey that led to the death of my faith? I was afraid to live a life that had no meaning. For 2 days I was in the wilderness. Then God gave me this. It's OK to question faith. God will stand the test. He wants us to be able to provide a reason for what we believe that goes beyond, it's what someone told me to believe. The foundation of my faith was, because my grandmother told me it was true and I started to build on that. Now I believe because after careful consideration of the possibilities... In the beginning God! Makes the most sense and I believe it is impossible for it to be otherwise based on a critical analysis of the possibilities.

Words fail to describe Him

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    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Multiman- So good to see you. Thank you for your comment. You write on fascinating topics and I like to read about them even if I don't necessarily agree with them. I want you to always feel welcome on my hubs.

    • profile image

      Multiman 

      8 years ago

      Good article concering the source of creation.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Al- Bless you for your service to your country. While I'm not Canadien, I have a sense of gratitude and respect for all who serve as you have.

      As you mentioned, "there is no point in quoting the Bible to unbelievers if they do not believe in the Bible" yet so many employ this tactic almost exclusively. There are so many other evidences of God beyond the truth of His word. There are so many that are searching, yet none are near them to give a reason for faith that goes beyond their subjective experience. We can find God by using reason and responding in faith. If I could reccomend a book to you it would be "Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. After I wrote this hub, God led me to that book. It is a scientific approach to discovering God.

      I am grateful to have found a new friend. One of Kindred spirit. I look forward to getting to know you better. Thank you for your powerful comment.

    • Al Blondin profile image

      Al Blondin 

      8 years ago from Colorado Springs, Colorado USA

      Fred, I have read many hubs by people who claim allegiance to Christ that have been dissapointements. I am grateful to have found a kindred spirit who cares about reason and is not afraid to submit Scriptures to critical analysis. Like you, I don't want to believe out of a sense of wishful thinking but out of a desire for Truth. Reason can only take us so far, but we ought to at least take us where it can. There is no point in quoting the Bible to unbelievers if they do not believe in the Bible. We need to find an appropriate point of reference that can be agreed upon. I see that this is important to you as well and I salute you for it. I am a Canadian naval officer who was offered to join the chaplaincy but declined because it is much easier to approach and share with unbelievers if I am working side by side, doing the same work as they do.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Brother James- Your comment has stirred something within my soul. This is precisely why I embarked on this journey to support faith with fact. I want very much to be willing to lay down my life for my God. If we question the validity of our faith, even in the slightest, we will find ourselves wavering in our service to God and to man. If there is NO question as to the validity of what we believe, we will find the courage to endure even unto death. Fortitude comes when we cannot be swayed from what we believe. I believe God wants us to be sure. I believe He welcomes honest questions. He doesn't want us to have to simply trust because this is what our fathers believed. There is evidence to support our beliefs. Scientific evidence. I think He has opened the door for us to find it. This is also an aspect of seeking God with all our hearts. He said if we seek Him with all our hearts, we will find Him. I don't think He limits that to the unscientific realm. More is coming soon.

      Thank you so much for your honesty my friend. Questions beg answers. Yours are coming!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      frogy- I'm glad this hub challenged you to think deeply about the origins of the universe and of life. I am going to write again on this subject as I have learned so much about it since I published this.

      Thanks so much for your comment!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      drpastor- I've put alot of thought and research into this lately. I'm with you and 2b. This is a deep subject. There is an abundance of resources that support each side, however the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence supports that life could not emerge from the thoughtless alignment of random lifeless atoms. Not even a sigle celled organism could result. Thanks for reading!

    • James A Watkins profile image

      James A Watkins 

      8 years ago from Chicago

      Would I die for my beliefs? There is an ultimate question, my friend. I am not sure. I would hope so. I think men of old had much more fortitude than we have today. But why?

      You are right. No matter what a person believes, it is a leap of faith.

      This is a deep Hub. You struck a chord in me. Life is the mystery. God is a mystery. Without the mystery of God we have no life.

    • frogyfish profile image

      frogyfish 

      8 years ago from Central United States of America

      As you began here, I wanted to curl up in a corner chair and listen to the discussion, also adding in the statements of many who commented. It would be refreshing to verbally listen to the intertwining words of 'seekers', each interjecting new thrusts of truth from a personal perspective. All would surely evolve in the end to: We cannot fully understand an infinite God but we can trust/faith/obey His instructions, because by belief in them, we are fulfilled by Him. And each learning experience in life, i.e. probably mostly trials, would surely bring us to new understanding.

      Goodness, don't think I can say it well, but did enjoy your thoughts in the hub, as well as the comments.

    • drpastorcarlotta profile image

      Pastor Dr Carlotta Boles 

      8 years ago from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC

      lol, lol, lol, I m soooo sorry but 2besure tickles me when she said: "God or matter? Well who do they think created matter. Duh! GREAT HUB! Voted awesome!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Kaie- So nice to see you again! Thank you for the vote of confidence!

    • Kaie Arwen profile image

      Kaie Arwen 

      8 years ago

      In the beginning................ there was God! Never doubt it............ and I know you don't! Kaie

    • profile image

      Marty 

      8 years ago

      Thanks again Fred. I guess I was wrong in saying NOONE KNOW'S THE TRUTH. For all I KNOW everyone could know the truth except me. And if I believed that I probably should go see a psychiatrist for being schizo! lol. A big problem that exists within religion is many people have become so closed in their beliefs that it is found taboo to even raise questions to things that are unknown and actually hinder our faith. I'm glad to have found someone who is indeed a believer but not one without questions. Thank you so much.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Marty- I was working on the comment above when you posted again. AWESOME comment Marty!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Marty- Your perspective of things is so valuable in this discussion. You wrote that NO ONE KNOWS THE TRUTH. It is true that we can never prove the truth, but it is also true that some may in fact "know" it. I put the qoutation marks around the word know, because at this point that word should be "believe". We have to think beyond the scientific approach for a minute. If a person were to say "I "know" there is oil beneath the ground in this spot, but could not prove it, and it was later discovered that there was in fact oil beneath that very spot, the oil would have been there regardless of belief. The fact that it is shows the man to have been correct. But before the discovery the only word that could technically be used correctly is that he believed the truth about it, the knowing would only be in the proof. That God exists can only be believed at this point, so you are technically right in your assesment. However, if when we die, life continues and we see Him face to face it would become known at that point. If He does in fact exist, He exists regardless of belief.

      When Jesus said we could "Know" the truth, and that the truth would set us free, it was because He was sure of who He was and where He had come from. We can believe something to the degree of being certain in our heart of hearts as with the man with the oil. It may sound a little confusing but like the man with the oil was proven right, I fully expect my faith not to be in vain.

    • profile image

      Marty 

      8 years ago

      Thanks again Fred. What you just said is so true. At least from my own perspective. I personally believe that nothing is coincidental. I too have stood witness to many miracles in my life that could never be explained. Is it even logical to think these things are able to occur without the divine power of a deity. This is mostly what I was speaking of in terms of personal experience. When you have experienced God you are left with no doubt of his existence and he is truly amazing.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Chub- Thank you for chiming in. Your perspective is welcome. As science advances, so too does our understanding. Yet the more we learn, we begin to see that our lack of understanding about the origin of existence continues unabated. As Marty said in his comment, the best we can do is try and determine what makes the most sense. That is from a scientific viewpoint. From a spiritual one, I can tell you that I never feel as though I am alone. I have seen a miracle. I have seen many coincidences that I refer to as God sightings. While all this is not proof in itself, it brings me great comfort and strengthens my faith. Again, glad you came by and took the time to comment.

    • profile image

      Marty 

      8 years ago

      All the mysteries of our human existance and all of life for that matter are very interesting indeed. The indisputable facts that are found in search of truth do give us a greater sense of security. However the greatest truth I have found is this....NOONE KNOWS THE TRUTH! And I believe noone ever will until they have come face to face with their creator. Possibilities are endless. Some things just make better sense than others. We live and learn during the coarse of our lives from our own individual experiences. Therefore what may be true for one is not always true for another. Even the things we are taught in Grade School may or may not be true for all we know. I for one, have never looked at an Atom through a microscope and have never been on the moon. I've never been to Israel and I've never even seen Time Square. I HAVE experienced many things that are similar to those I mentioned therefore I can say with faithful confidence I BELIEVE it is true. However, I cannot say anything is absolute without having experienced it for myself. I believe the best we can do in this lifetime is live through our personal experiences and observe the experiences of others. We should use these as a means to improve our own human character and allow others to live according to their own will as long as it doesn't impose on the will of others. Try to do the right things with the best of intentions and learn from our mistakes. Not only for ourselves but for society as a whole. Simply be loving, caring, and kind people. I have known many people of all religous faiths including Atheists who live this way and I believe they have all earned their fair share in the kingdom of heaven. My father, for one, is an Atheist who will tell you he believes everyone should live in accordance with the way Jesus Christ taught regardless of which religion he/she may follow. Many people may not know it but those who truly hold to and follow the teachings of Christ actually fulfill the laws of every religion. The Golden rule is taught in every religous faith known to man although the wording may be different. I actually believe it is more to a nonbeliever's credit to live this way than that of a believer. A selfless, loving and kind Atheist is not out to win some heavenly manna. He simply lives this way because it is the right way to live. If you choose to be a member of a church, follow the scriptures not the people. Form your own opinion on what the scriptures tell YOU. When you do this I'm sure you will discover that there are many people who interpret things quite differently. Let them. I believe we all have unique tasks to fulfill in this lifetime for our own individual growth. Once we fulfill them we move on to our next task and it continues throughout our eternal spiritual evolution. Joy and happiness can be easily achieved with absolutely nothing of material value. God has given us eachother. Our friends, family, children and loved ones are all we need to live a joyful and happy life. I think we should spend more time searching for ways to improve the lives of us all. These mysteries are interesting indeed and deserve their due attention. For all we know God may have intended to keep them secret to make the ride a little more challenging. But in the end, whether we have solved these puzzles or not, the most important fact is...We are here NOW and we are having an experience NOW. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. Lets just make it as enjoyable NOW as we can.

    • chubatemjen profile image

      chubatemjen 

      8 years ago

      With deeper insight into science ,men now realizes the intimate correlation between matter and metaphysical aspect. I don't have to argue for or against.But let us be clear that matter in itself is a definite pattern of vibration arrangement.Different objects shows different vibration pattern.Example-like the different arrangement pattern of sand grain particles when sound changes its vibration rate...one doesn't necessarily have to deny atom because it can't be seen with the naked eye..!..a challenging and a great hub..

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Porshadoxus- Thank you for joining in. I intend to visit your page later today.

      It amazes me to think that simply by adding billions of years of time into the equation it makes randomness more plausable. To me it doesn't make a bit of difference. It would be like taking a billion bags, filling each of the with all the component parts to construct a watch. Shakng the bags for a billion years and expecting even 1 working model to come of it. NOT gonna happen!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Tina- AMEN! I have heard of Ken Hamm. It's been quite some time since I have listened to his teachings. I'm sure it would have helped me even more as I responded to the athiest arguement. God sent me in unarmed so to speak. Your comment is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for when I wrote this hub. It will serve to add to it should any undecided visitors read this.

      Thank you for your kind words. God bless you Tina.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Marty- I think what you wrote makes very good sense. All we can do is look at what we experience and try to make sense of it. Some use a biblical perspective as a help. While others who claim random existence without a Creator, have no such help. After attempting to find an alternate explaination for existence, I have concluded, it needed a genesis. Since that was my conclusion, it was logical to me that it was intelligently designed, therefore, Creator. The God of the bible makes sense to me because I could not imagine a Creator would be silent. It also made sense because Christianity is the only of the worlds religions in which we are joined to God through His efforts, not our own. The sinfulness of man is evident. Our efforts to undo that which we have done through any kind of religious activity would prove futile. It would be akin to unsaying something. It took forgiveness and grace to undo our position before a holy God. I believe a price needed to be paid for our rebellion, I believe Jesus Christ paid that price.

      Your comment has added to this hub and I am grateful you chimed in! I look forward to seeing you more in the future.

    • Porshadoxus profile image

      Porshadoxus 

      8 years ago from the straight and narrow way

      Great stuff here.

      The statements about random thoughtless atoms causing life are quite hard to swallow. That's why evolution needs billions of years in which to hide; it's to give randomness a chance.

      Well done.

    • profile image

      Tina Truelove 

      8 years ago

      Wow, this is an amazing hub. We have been going through a series at church called Answers in Genesis by Ken Hamm. I'm sure you have heard of him. Years ago, Ken came to church and presented to us how the book of Genesis holds the answers to so many questions that we as Christians are thinking, but are too ashamed to admit. Questions such as "What about the dinosaurs?" and "Is the earth really millions of years old?" "How could the entire earth be covered in water?" (By the way, when I taught 5th grade science, the secular TEXTBOOK taught of a world wide flood - totally apart from scripture. I loved reading with my students about secular scientific proof of Noah's flood, "How did races and various languages really originate?", and "Why did God place the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and The Tree of Life in the Garden in the first place?" It is so exciting to study the answers to all of these questions which solidify my reasons for believing in my God as my parents, grand-parents, and great-grandparents taught me. I think God allowed you to question your faith so that you would be drawn to find such answers and write about them so that others my benefit from your research. I love the atoms/matter/human body analogy! I can't wait to read you hub about what you learned through the atheist. You are right that non-believers can make a convincing argument, but how much more exciting it is to be prepared to defend our faith scientifically - even more exciting when an incredibly bright mind comes to know Jesus! God uses them in such exciting ways. Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts. I will bookmark this hub for future reference. Keep writing. I will keep reading!

    • profile image

      Marty 

      8 years ago

      Loved your article Fred. The foundation of my faith comes from what makes most sense to me personally and what I have experienced and observed in my own lifetime. The first commandment tells us to love the lord thy God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. To me, what that is telling us is to follow the inner divinity within ourselves and never take the word of man at face value. I believe God created each and everyone of us in a unique way and he continuously experiences his creation through us. He creates in the same manner as we all do. Look at the first verses of Genesis. He creates the heavens and the earth, then he observes his creation and notices that it is empty and dark. So he creates the light and separates the darkness from the light. I believe we as humans are separated from the light which is truth. We live our lives in dakness ignorant of the truth in order that we may see for ourselves that which is good and that which is not. Our purpose is to look at the problems that exist within humanity and form solutions. This is how we participate in creating Heaven on Earth. The solution is found in the teachings of his son Jesus Christ. If we were all to live our lives in accordance with what he taught such as loving our neighbor as ourself then the gates of heaven would indeed be opened. I don't claim any of my beliefs as any absolute truth. I simply rationalise with myself on these issues and conclude with what makes most sense to me. But I find it essential to remain open minded for other views that may make more sense than that which I have concluded.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Jason- I can't tell you how much your comment means to me. You have truly added to this hub! It does seem that the athiest "purpose" is to strip believers of our purpose. It does seem like that would be a hollow existence. Judging from your comment, you are strong in the faith. It is a real pleasure to have one like you as a friend on hubpages and as a brother in the Lord.

    • Jason R. Manning profile image

      Jason R. Manning 

      8 years ago from Sacramento, California

      Hi Fred,

      You handled this situation well. One must feel more pity and sadness for those who try to “kill God,” individuals like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. There viewpoint is so depressing, as honest as we try to communicate our thoughts to one another, will we really know the internal struggles of an atheist? They dedicate their lives to reach “nothingness.” They dedicate their lives to disproving of a creator so they in turn create dispassion and sorrow.

      We as Christians run on faith of the invisible hand. Throughout our lives we constantly run into what atheist call “random coincidence,” we give it several names, design, intention and purpose. God created purpose, and gave us charge of purpose; atheists have nothing and therefore want anything to believe in with exception of a deity. Atheist must exercise a faith greater than ours in order to avoid God. Think about how much will power it takes for an atheist to get up everyday knowing that their life is meaningless, whatever they contribute to the planet will at best be forgotten in a few generations, and there is no solace of being considered special for individuality by our God. The crucifixion of Christ also demonstrates how powerful the want of proof for believers exist, after all it wasn’t a group of atheist who killed Jesus.

      I really enjoyed your article Fred.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Temiprice- Wow! This is exactly the kind of comment people can connect with. thank you! It say so much about you that you read those hubs. You, like me are conducting a real, scientific, critical analysis search, putting God and faith on the line with a belief that the greater good will be served. If we simply focus on preaching to the choir, what purpose will be served? We neeed to take off our masks and reveal the truth about ourselves so unbelievers can see that we are struggling with what we believe as well as they struggle with their unbelief. It makes us more honest and real in their sight. If we are truly trying to reach the unsaved world we would engage them where they live. In uncertainty. Your comment will strike a chord with them. It is honest and powerful. In the end as I rationally discovered, God IS the cause for life and we are not here by random chance. I was willing to risk all for an objective conclusion. I would be very much interested to know your thoughts about the exchange I had with these people. Please email me if you are so inclined. Thank you so so so much for your input!

    • temiprice profile image

      temiprice 

      8 years ago

      Hi Fred,

      As always, it's great to read your thoughts. I so appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. Because I question my beliefs and sometimes come up with different answers than the church at large, I often feel a little bit like an "outsider" even within the church. It's nice to have a place to express thoughts - even if they are a bit out of sync with the chorus.

      I've read the hubs you refer to and want your thoughts on something...

      It seems to me, as Christians, we beleive in not just matter and energy, but also spirit. I don't beleive spirit has substance, it is not matter and isn't necessarily bounded by space or time. The logical arguments presented in both of the hubs completely ignored the concept of spirit or discounted it. They in no way refuted it. In other words, they began with what I consider a false premise. Therefore, no matter how well framed the argument, any conclusion that follows is invalid.

      To be honest, I'm not all that intrigued by the origins of the universe, or whether or not there was a first cause. But, it seems to me, the spiritual world is as real, and certainly as vital as the physical world. But it's as if some people don't have the senses to perceive it.

      I don't beleive in God because I read about him in the Bible. Nor do I beleive in God because someone framed a logical argument for his existence. I beleive in God because I FEEL him all around me. I have made it my life's goal to know him. Yet, I cannot prove he exists any more than I can prove light exists to a blind person. Could my senses be deceiving me? Could I be delusional?

      Certainly.

      But I don't think so.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      cristina- this is EXACTLY the kind of comment I was hoping for. No offense to those who replied with short sweet replies, but the purpose of this hub was to elicit responses that were well thought out to be a witness to unbelievers that were curious and happened by. Your witness is powerful. It shows passion instead of mere courtesy. I support you regularly and feel I can depend on your support. I don't want to simply preach to the choir, I want to reach the lost. That is why I engaged in this journey. I was hoping my hub friends would respond as you did. I guess I overestimated.

    • cristina327 profile image

      Cristine Abigail 

      8 years ago from Manila

      We can never simply explain God the infinite with our finite minds.He is far beyond our reasonings can comprehend. If we can explain everything about our God then He is not God at all. I believe God with all my heart not just because someone shared with me the truth about Him, but I myelf experience the transforming power of His Word in my life.God's Word is the truth, it is ever alive and powerful. By the power of the Word I experience freedom from sin. Thank you for sharing these great thoughts and reasonings. Blessings to you. Regards.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Brother Dave- if you were to read the hub that "killed God" you would see that it was well thought out and very well reasoned, although in the end it's still the same as

      1) atoms are invisible to the naked eye.

      2)the human body is made up of atoms

      3)the human body is invisible to the naked eye.

      Thanks for your inspiring comment.

    • Dave Mathews profile image

      Dave Mathews 

      8 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

      And here I thought it was "In the beginning 'GOD CREATED.'"

      Would I die for my belief? Yes Absolutely! Why? to show my thankfulness to God for my being created, and to try and prove my worthiness as a Son of God, for being redeemed from sinfulness, cleansed, purified and sactified,and God's acknowledgement that I too am heir with Christ Jesus.

      Many so called thinkers can come up with hypatheticals, and then try to adapt their theory with mind-boggling data to try and confuse.

      My question is Where did their thought originate from, did it just miraculously pop into their heads?

      Brother Dave.

      Brother Dave.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      katiem- If we don't have credible answers to the tough questions, our children will have a very shallow foundation for belief and faith. I showed my 18 year old what I've been doing. I let him read the hub that "killed God" His first words were "What about life?

      I rejoiced that God gave him the understanding that this mans conclusions may seem plausable until you enter life into the equation. It was startling to see that what took me 2 days to figure out, he got instantly.

    • katiem2 profile image

      Katie McMurray 

      8 years ago from Westerville

      You realize both the difficulty and importance of answering questions like;

      How did God begin?

      How did the Earth begin?

      and the like when you try to explain it to a child, unlike adults they just don't shake their head and hope you'll soon shut up, they dig deeper ask more about what doesn't make sense.

      Powerful and helpful insights on In the Beginning God or Matter. Blessings :)

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Parrster- I can't wait to read it. I'm glad that this connected with you. It's the only thing that does make sense for me. Today hopefully I will write something else God gave me in this. I plan to title it, What I learned about God from an atheist. I'm very excited about it.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      louis- Thank you for reading and commenting. I enjoy your hubs.

    • parrster profile image

      Richard Parr 

      8 years ago from Australia

      I too have been through such tests of faith, and wrote a similar article (Big questions of life). There is so much "knowledge" today that sets itself up to dismantle faith. But, as you conclude, God, in the end, just makes more sense. thanks for the thought provoking hub.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Lifegate- I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who needed to put faith to the test. Some times on hubpages it feels that all we are doing is preaching to the choir. Everybody puts on their Sunday best. Then we write about things that only the church people will understand and appreciate. It's hard to find anybody here that has a chink in their armor. I want to be open and honest about my struggles, hoping that someone who reads about them can relate and connect. I wonder how many Christians have asked the tough questions. I suspect most just go along with the program. I stated that I believe the overwhelming majority believe simply because someone else told them it was true and without deep thought or critical analysis, they simply accepted it. I still believe that. Most have inherited faith, passed down from generation to generation. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just decided that I needed more than someone elses word. God led me straight to the perfect man to challenge the validity of my faith. My God stands victorious. If we have questions, we should not be afraid to address them. If we have doubts we should not fear expressing them. God is a big God. He doesn't turn His back when we have honest concerns. He will lead us and comfort us as He reveals His glory.

    • louisxfourie profile image

      Louis Fourie 

      8 years ago from Johannesburg, South Africa

      Excellent hub, Indescribable and How great is our God is my favorites to.

    • lifegate profile image

      William Kovacic 

      8 years ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

      Fred,

      Excellent hub. I'm thankful for the journey God has taken you on, not only for your benefit, but for mine. Thanks, Brother.

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      2B- Believe it or not through critical analysis, the existence of God can be logically refuted. In the same forum as

      1) Atoms are invisible to the naked eye

      2) the human body is made up of atoms

      3) The human body is invisible to the naked eye

      If you read his reasoning as explained in my hub, you would see that it is sound in points 1 and 2. Where it breaks down is in point 3. Don't dismiss the power of critical analysis. It is very convincing. God is much more powerful. His reasoning breaks down with the addition of life from lifelesness. God showed me that. Let's be knowledgeable on how to rescue the ones trapped by " logic and reason" their souls are as dear to God as the ones trapped by ignorance. Thank you for your comment. Your support is ver important to what God is doing through this imperfect vessel I refer to as me.

    • 2besure profile image

      Pamela Lipscomb 

      8 years ago from Charlotte, North Carolina

      God or matter? Well who do they think created matter. Duh!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Tamarajo- I have a brother from the church I'm a member of that has the dvd's He let me borrow them and my whole family watched in amazement. Indescribable and How great is our God were my favorites. They were both AWESOME!!! I reccomend both!

    • Tamarajo profile image

      Tamarajo 

      8 years ago

      great reasoning. Made much sense. I especially liked the invisible atoms with the not so invisible human body reasoning.

      Interesting thing about God is once we choose to believe without seeing He shows how it logically works.

      I loved the video you put with it. I would imagine you have seen the Louie Giglio videos of the indescribable tour. If not check it out on You Tube I loved it. God is so grand!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      Rhondaroo- So nice to see you! I have faced my fear and I am better off for it. My next hub will tell of what I learned about God from an Atheist. I'm very excited to write it. It will deal with omnipresence, and eternity. My view of God is much much much bigger than ever thanks to an athiest!

    • fred allen profile imageAUTHOR

      fred allen 

      8 years ago from Myrtle Beach SC

      johnny- I had to write this as much for myself as anyone else it may help or help reach. He wrote a hub and dedicated it to me. It was quite lengthy and very deteailed and well reasoned. My first response was to say that I was honored and appalled that words intended to kill faith were dedicated to me. My second response was to thank him for killing the devil. I searched for ways to dispute his reasoning. None could be found that would objectively reason his logic was unsound. As I stated, he is among the brightest people in the world. Famous apologists either Christian or big bang refuse to debate him. He offered $10,000 to the charity of choice if someone could refute his reasoning. No takers. My faith took a severe hit when I read the words that "killed God" so to speak. Then last night the words "In the beginning" kept going through my mind. God hit me with them. It became "In the beginning, matter". God said tell that story. Reason it from there and see how plausable it sounds. So I did and here it is. Faith strengthened not extinguished. God is faithful. He is not afraid of logic, reason, or critical analysis! HE IS GOD!!!!

    • rhondaroo profile image

      rhondaroo 

      8 years ago from Albuquerque, New Mexico

      there is just so much more than we in the flesh will ever understand this is a wonderful word yes in the beginning, God will always be the same as yesterday, today, and forever.

    • profile image

      johnnynaakea 

      8 years ago

      Great word! In the beginning, God! Yeah!

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