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Introduction and FAQ

Updated on April 14, 2018
AF Mind profile image

Given the historical and spiritual significance of the Bible, Kevin has devoted himself to studies through prayer and discernment.

Welcome. Thank you for coming to my page. Here is what you should know. My name is Kevin, and I have been in the Hebrew Roots Movement for a few years now. People have a lot of questions and accusations against Hebrew Rooters, so I thought I would write an article detailing my beliefs.

What Is Hebrew Roots?

The Hebrew Roots is a movement that advocates the return and adherence to the walk of faith and obedience to the Torah by seeking a better understanding of the Old Testament and New Testament.

What Do We Believe?

Like all belief systems, those who claim to be Hebrew Roots have varying beliefs. Some of us believe in different interpretations of scripture just like denominations in Christianity. But to sum up the general belies here they are:

-We believe in the Old and New Testament

-We believe in God and Jesus. But some of us use different names for him. Some call will say God's name is Yahweh, Yahuah, Yehowah, Jehovah, Yahveh, Jahveh, Ahayah, and more. Some of the names used for Jesus is Yeshua, Yahushua, Yahushua, Yehoshua, Jeshua, and many more. I myself do not want to make a statement on what their real names are as I am still learning myself.

-We believe that the New Covenant did not get rid of the laws of the Old Covenant (Matthew 5 17). Rather it upholds those laws and brought about a better one, where the Savior takes the place of the offering and death those under the law deserve. We follow the dietary, ceremonial, and moral laws of the Old Testament.

Are We Jewish?

Are We Jewish?

This question comes from Torah adherance always being related to Judaism. It depends on what you mean by asking if someone in the HRM is Jewish because the word Jewish can meat different things.

  1. Being descent from someone who is, or claims to be, of the Southern Kingdom of Judah.
  2. A member of the religion of Judaism.

For option 1, there are Jews who are HRM, whether they are Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc. The majority of HRM adherants have no problem with ethnically Jewish people believing what we do. Although I have seen some antisemitic people in the movement. And for that I apologize.

Are we religiously Jewish? No. But wait, don't we follow the same law Jews do? Yes and no. We believe in the Old Testament and the Torah like Jews do, but they tend to have a lot of different interpretations regarding the Old Testament and also tend to uphold the Talmud as an authoritative source, which HRM does not. And most religious Jews do not believe in the Savior, which contradicts the majority of Hebrew Roots beliefs.

Are We Messianic Jews?

This coincides with the last question, and the answer is no. Being a Messianic Jew generally means you still follow Judaism, which for the most part holds the Talmud and other books as an authority over scripture. We see these sources as either partially true or not at all true. We also differ in the many traditions Judaism has.

Are We Muslims?

This is another question I get asked because like the previous question, some of our beliefs are automatically equated with another religion. We do not eat pork, some of our women wear headcoverings, and we believe in one deity. This is similar to some of the beliefs in Islam. But this is an association fallacy. These are just some similarities. We are of two different religions.

Do We Believe in Work Based Salvation?

Source: Is the Law Done Away With? Part 2

James 2 14-26. What does this mean? It means what good does it do to have faith, but to not be a worker for the faith? Your works must reflect your faith. Otherwise there was no use for that faith. Even evil spirits believe. But they work iniquity. They do not do righteousness. Having faith without works makes you just like a demon. Is it not better to be better than a demon? How much more should we shudder than a demon does?


We read that Abraham was also justified by works. But many will quote Romans 4 1-8 and say that Abraham was justified by faith. He was. But faith is only the first step. Faith and works must coincide. When we take both the scripture that says he had faith and the scripture that says he had works we see that his faith worked with his works and his works perfected his faith. This is what we can call perfected faith. This is why Paul said we do not do away with the law by faith in Romans 3 31.

Do We Believe That White People or Black People Are the Real 12 Tribes?

Just to clarify on something; Hebrew Roots is not the same thing as Hebrew Israelite, Anglo Saxon/British Israelite, or Christian Identity Movement. We just have a few similarities such as Torah adherence and the belief in Christ (though many of the adherents to the three religions I mentioned reject either the Torah or Christ). See my articles on both here.

Hebrew Israelites

White/Anglo-Saxon Israelites/Christian Identity

To answer this question we generally believe the 12 Tribes to be of a bronze/olive complexion. We also tend to believe that ancestry to the 12 Tribes may be found in any skin color due to the Tribes being scattered throughout the world so many times.


Where Can I Learn More?

My page is full of articles. Please feel free to look there for any questions you may have. If you cannot find your answer let me know and I may write an article on it. I also recommend the following ministries.


Devoted To Yah

119 Ministries

Unlearn The Lies


Peace and blessings, and all praises to the Most High.

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    • AF Mind profile image
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      AF Mind 4 months ago

      Jay,

      You neglected to answer the question. I cannot because I have no time. I gave you a chance to discuss and you did not take it. Further comments from you shall be deleted.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      Is it that you cannot study or is it that you will not study? Please make time for this, if not now, then in the future. There are levels and degrees of force. After all these years of practice and teaching I have come to the conclusion that, "Deadly Force" is not needed. Focus on this and not the theoretical.

      My God is Peaceful.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 4 months ago

      Jay,

      "Christ used the whips in the temple as a demonstration, not to harm anyone. Go take the Use of Force courses and you may better understand this. Also take courses in, how to deal with the mentally ill. I wrote an article by that title."

      They have a Concordance? A pastor? A believer? How does that course help me with scripture? From what you've said it contradicts the scriptures, both Old and New. Why take it then?

      "There is only One God, the root of all things and people, Jesus was the Vine and We the branches. I am against stories which depict God as Violent, Jealous, Vengeful, etc. God is Good and not as depicted in the OT (although there is some good in it)."

      So you are against Christ, who believed in this God and referenced these same stories of him killing? Either you're all for Christ who believed these stories and called them good, or you can't agree with him 100% as you claim to because he contradicts your teachings. Which one is it? Which of those is your stance? You can't say you don't believe in the Old Testament and believe in Christ, who believed in the Old Testament. Is Christ now wrong? Is he false? Answer.

      "Before we go further, please get some training in The Use of Force and How to Deal with the Mentally Ill."

      Can't do that. No time in my schedule. Besides, I already know about dealing with mentally ill people due to working with them in the past. I also avoid violence as much as possible. Stop avoiding the questions and just answer them all plainly in your next comment. If not any further comments from you shall be deleted. Stop avoiding the topic and just answer.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      Christ used the whips in the temple as a demonstration, not to harm anyone. Go take the Use of Force courses and you may better understand this. Also take courses in, how to deal with the mentally ill. I wrote an article by that title.

      "What if I am happy about something bad?" What?

      "You are the one who doesn't understand that human emotions, no matter what they are, aren't evil. How we use them is what determines it." Too theoretical for me.

      "You forget, Christ believed in the same God they did. All throughout your articles you claim to be against the OT." There is only One God, the root of all things and people, Jesus was the Vine and We the branches. I am against stories which depict God as Violent, Jealous, Vengeful, etc. God is Good and not as depicted in the OT (although there is some good in it).

      Before we go further, please get some training in The Use of Force and How to Deal with the Mentally Ill.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 4 months ago

      So what about when he used the whips on those men in the temple?

      So happiness is only positive? Happiness can never be negative? What if I'm happy about something bad? I am being patient. Answer the questions in it's entirety in one comment on your own time. I can wait.

      You are the one who doesn't understand that human emotions, no matter what they are, aren't evil. How we use them is what determines it.

      I realize he was against the rabbis, not because they followed the OT God, but because they claimed to and didn't. They mixed strict obedience with vain traditions rather than accepting the grace and forgiveness that was there since the beginning. They decided to make their own law. You forget, Christ believed in the same God they did. All throughout your articles you claim to be against the OT. What does Christ say? He quoted the OT many times. So which is it? Do you believe in both testaments, or has Christ contradicted himself because he quoted the same book you say is false?

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      "I agree, using the least amount of force is best if possible. But we can't act as if it is always possible."

      Let me suggest that before you make up your mind about this, you take courses in "The Use of Force," preferably from a police agency. Officers are trained to Always use the least amount of force. If the officer does not, he is disciplined. As private citizens it is generally best to call for help, 911. Scenario training is included in police training.

      You still have yet to answer a couple of things.

      1. You quoted Christ to promote zero violence and harm. Yet he advocated for it in certain situations. So either you would have to advocate for what he said 100%, or he cannot be what you think of him. Which one is it? I can bring up verses right now where Christ was okay with violence in the Old and New Testament.

      No, I do not believe Christ advocated violence and harm. He may have Predicted it, but He never Advocated it.

      You also avoided my question from earlier. You said in a previous comment "Negative human emotions (anger, vengeance, jealousy) are the sin we are trying to end." May I ask, is happiness a positive emotion? What about sadness? What do you say?

      I am doing the best I can to answer questions. Have patience. Happiness is positive, sadness occurs normally from time to time and may be needed for grief, but it is temporary. Anger, vengeance and jealousy are to be avoided. What do you not understand?

      As for the other comments made on this thread, Do Not Put Words in the Mouth of Others. That is a trick, a deception. Jesus taught differently from the Rabbis. That is why the Rabbis plotted to Kill Jesus. There is a contradiction between what the Rabbis teach and what Jesus teaches. I renounce what the Rabbis teach in favor of what Jesus taught. The Rabbis wrote most of what is in the Bible, and Jesus wrote nothing. All we have are the reports of people close to him. Now do you understand?

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 4 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      Kevin-- he is a good example of what happens when you discard scripture and find multiple false Gods to follow. Scripture is clear anyone that tries to serve more than one of anything esp if they choose false gods over God is unstable in all their ways and we are to get away from them.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 4 months ago

      Charlie,

      I read them last night. And the only thing I agree with him on is that peace is good. Everything else contradicts the Most Highs Bible. He uses Christ's words to "debunk" the Old Testament, which makes no sense since he worshipped and was sent by that same being. It's not like he believes the law is done away with as you do. He thinks the Old Testament AS A WHOLE is fake but the new is somehow still relevant without the old and is true. That makes no sense. If he doesn't answer what I said here I think I have nothing to say here.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 4 months ago

      Jay,

      I agree, using the least amount of force is best if possible. But we can't act as if it is always possible.

      You still have yet to answer a couple of things.

      1. You quoted Christ to promote zero violence and harm. Yet he advocated for it in certain situations. So either you would have to advocate for what he said 100%, or he cannot be what you think of him. Which one is it? I can bring up verses right now where Christ was okay with violence in the Old and New Testament.

      You also avoided my question from earlier. You said in a previous comment "Negative human emotions (anger, vengeance, jealousy) are the sin we are trying to end." May I ask, is happiness a positive emotion? What about sadness? What do you say?

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 4 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      JCO you are greatly deceived AND TRYING TO DECEIVE OTHERS , I look to the ONLY PERFECT MAN that ever lived not at inanimate false gods AND OTHER FALSE ENTITIES with no power as you do. Jesus Christ the son of the Living God is the only man that can give us back the eternal life that Adam forfeited by his disobedience. You are an agent of satan and not who who think you are. You must repent or you will join him in the lake of fire for destruction at the end of this age. I have no more to say to you but this GET BEHIND ME SATAN you cannot deceive me

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      There is only One God who is the root of all things and He is in You. Look to the God within, not the person who is imperfect.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 4 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      Kevin-- read his articles and you will see he is full of mixture, His God is not our God and his only desire is to deceive you to follow his false gods. You are wasting your time

      He promotes a false theme that all religion has the same root. That they all are to work together etc.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 4 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      Q1. What is the alternative for this situation?

      A.1. The proper use of force is the answer which does not include Deadly Force or the Intent to kill. It would take several classes or trainings to properly answer your question. It cannot really be done here. In short, there are levels and degrees of force which is non-violent.

      Q.2. You're talking about martial arts, but earlier you said to do no harm. Are you now advocating harm as defense? Or have I misunderstood you this whole time?

      A.2. You have misunderstood me this whole time. Martial arts training, if done correctly, includes teaching a student to walk away from a fight and to use the Least Amount of Force needed to control a clearly defined wrongdoer, "an Arrest."

      Q.3. And I want talking about just killing. I'm saying violence is sometimes the answer.

      A.3. Proper "Use of Force" is the answer which is Not violence and does not have the Intent to harm. Become trained in the Use of Force by a police agency and you will better understand. Peace Officers are trained not to have an Intent to harm. If they do, they are fired.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 4 months ago

      Jay,

      "I am a retired Peace Officer and have taught the "Use of Force" training to many officers. After many years in the business I have come to the conclusion that "Deadly Force" is Not needed. Please read the article on "Use of Force" as it explains the ladder of Force and the incremental use of Force. Study martial arts or take a self defense class. There are always alternatives to killing people, you just have to learn what they are."

      I will, but you have yet to answer my question. What is the alternative for this situation? You're talking about martial arts, but earlier you said to do no harm. Are you now advocating harm as defense? Or have I misunderstood you this whole time? And I want talking about just killing. I'm saying violence is sometimes the answer. Not always, and not always the first choice. But sometimes it is.

      "As to God killing people, I know the old stories of God doing this and I renounce them. The stories themselves depict God as a killer which is False. Conceive of a better God."

      Who is better than the true one above all? And the reason I said this is because you quoted Christ to promote zero violence and harm. Yet he advocated for it in certain situations. So either you would have to advocate for what he said 100%, or he cannot be what you think of him.

      You also avoided my question from earlier. You said in a previous comment "Negative human emotions (anger, vengeance, jealousy) are the sin we are trying to end." May I ask, is happiness a positive emotion? What about sadness? What do you say?

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 5 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      "If peace is always possible and no violence whatsoever, what is your solution to that situation I presented earlier? Your child is kidnapped and their life is on the line and they did nothing to deserve it. What's more important? Saving her or sparing the one who did this from any harm even though he will not repent/give her back in this context?"

      I am a retired Peace Officer and have taught the "Use of Force" training to many officers. After many years in the business I have come to the conclusion that "Deadly Force" is Not needed. Please read the article on "Use of Force" as it explains the ladder of Force and the incremental use of Force. Study martial arts or take a self defense class. There are always alternatives to killing people, you just have to learn what they are.

      As to God killing people, I know the old stories of God doing this and I renounce them. The stories themselves depict God as a killer which is False. Conceive of a better God.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Charlie,

      I appreciate your prayers and concern. I will.keep you in prayers as.well. Peace and blessings, my friend.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      Kevin, Sorry we disagree but I have studied this for 45 years and the Holy Spirit confirms to me I have the truth. So I have no more to say at this point We will have to disagree for now.I do appreciate your spirit and it appears we are both striving for nothing by truth, so one day we will agree when one of us sees something different that we are missing for now. God bless and Lord Jesus please show Kevin and me what we need to see to be of one Spirit with you,I am willing to see truth and only truth and I believe Kevin is also so please provide the missing piece.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Jay,

      I will post either a comment on there or a response article.

      You forget that he is also the same person who worshiped the god of the Old Testament who has killed millions of people. And as you'll see in my previous comment to Charlie forgiveness and non condemnation existed in the Old Testament as well. And Christ wasn't always peaceful.

      John 2:13-17

      13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

      14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

      15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

      16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

      17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

      If peace is always possible and no violence whatsoever, what is your solution to that situation I presented earlier? Your child is kidnapped and their life is on the line and they did nothing to deserve it. What's more important? Saving her or sparing the one who did this from any harm even though he will not repent/give her back in this context?

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Hi Tony,

      "I was raised an Seventh-day Adventist, which if you remove the writings of E.G. White is just a hop, skip and a small jump from Hebraic Roots Movement."

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but SDAs only keep Sabbath and some keep dietary laws correct? That's still pretty far off from HRM, but I just want to be sure.

      "No true Christian, Sabbath keeper or not, will assert that worshiping another God or idols are now condoned by God, and they will all not agree that killing, stealing, adultery, etc. are right in the eyes of God."

      Absolutely true.

      "Sp, let me ask you one thing, for I believe that it is the core of both SDA and HRM beliefs. Is it your belief that seventh day Sabbath keeping is what differentiates a "true" follower of Christ from those who merely "say" that they follow Christ, but follow the ways of the world and/or the beast?"

      That depends on what you mean by that. Will Sabbath adherance be a sign of it? Yes. Is it always no. Hindus believe murder is wrong. But they worship false deities. Faith must come before works, and we must not be partially obedient, which you can argue isn't pbedience at all (James 2 10).

      "Peace."

      You too.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Charlie,

      "Kevin, first let me apologize for the attitude in my last comments. I really thought you were not sincere in your pursuit of righteousness but the Spirit of God has shown me otherwise and that I must treat you more respectfully. Please forgive me."

      I forgive you. No bad blood between us, friend.

      "There is no place in this age of Christ for the law of Moses. The law was given only to Israel and only for a season. It is judgment with no forgiveness but only condemnation. That is why no one could be saved by the law. It was their fruit of rejecting God that gave them the law."

      I agree. Keeping the law does not save. The same way not murdering, stealing, etc does not save yuou. But is it the right thing to do? Yes. That's the point. It is the faith and grace that does it. I believe keeping the Torah is only a result of it. I also think forgiveness was possible in the Old Testament. The concept of forgiveness comes into full vision under the Mosaic regime. For instance, in the early portion of Leviticus, in connection with various sacrifices, Moses records that these offerings were a “sweet savor” to the Lord (see Lev. 1:9; 2:2; 3:5, 16).In Leviticus 4:31, the nature of that “sweet savor” is defined:

      “the priest shall burn [the sacrifice] upon the altar for a sweet savor unto Jehovah; and the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven” (emphasis added)

      I completely agree with him having all authority. And I will definetely look at that article when I ge tthe chance.

      "In the garden that God made for man there was no separation between God and Man. God said everything He made was GOOD and He approved it. The relationship with man that was approved by God was God living on earth with man, Adams disobedience in the garden caused separation, death. Man continues to reject God throughout the ages of man. But as man got more evil and rebellious the earth became so polluted that God could not stay there and He moved into heaven, not because he wanted to but because of the corruption of man."

      I agree. A lot of skeptics (and some Christians but they're not true believers) think God is some evil dictator who just abandoned Adam and Eve. How can he dwell in a heart that does not serve him? That's like trying to keep a flame going in water. Not that the Most High would be extinguished, but that these two things are polar opposites and cannot mix. 2 Corinthians 16 4 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

      "This life, what is left of it has two purposes. One reason Jesus came is to bring us life, that is those that will do all He requires to become disciples of Christ, sons of God, regain the eternal life to live on the new earth with God for eternity. The other is to separate them from the others that will be removed from the earth as was done in the days of Noah. God covenanted not to destroy man with a flood ever again but that He will destroy ALL unrighteousness from the earth that His sons may inherit a pure undefiled Earth. But because it being defiled so badly He cannot life on it He will then give a a new heaven and earth, then move onto it with His throne and live among His sons forever, which was His original intention but Adam defiled it. In other words it is all about God and the man He created to be restored to their original relationship, but without the rebellious ones that have defiled all of God's creation. That's it."

      We do indeed have a righteous Father.

      "The law was was part of the age of the Israelites and was for that age only, just as the flood was for the age of Noah to cleanse the earth and give man another chance at redemption. All past ages are lessons for us to learn about God and His desired relationship with man and have NO PLACE IN THIS AGE, other than to warn us of what not to do as all other ages were a failure and could not do what Jesus came and did and that is why He came, was mercilessly killed, was resurrected and stands in God's stead as our only redeemer and the entry to the eternal kingdom of God."

      I do not believe that the righteousness of those ages has passed. You might say, "What about the sacrifices?" That didn't change. Christ was the sacrifice. And righteousness by faith has always been more important than sacrifice.

      1 Samuel 15 22 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams."

      In Babylon the Jews could not sacrifice. But Daniel was declared righteous (Ezekiel 14 14).

      "That is everything in a nutshell. If you can see this you can become a son of God, if not then it is not possible because the salvation (return of eternal life) is only available through Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE can have any place in the redemption. I pray you will let the real Holy Spirit of God show you all truth in this matter as He alone can do. Do NOT BE DECEIVED MY BELOVED are his words to you."

      I agree. Nothing else. The law of the Most High is not something seperate from Christ, who obeyed the law. They are not two seperate things. They are one. I will pray for you too, friend.

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 5 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      AF Mind: Perhaps this article will help explain.

      https://hubpages.com/family/From-Warrior-to-Office...

      In short, we are not to form the intent to harm another. There is always another way. We must improve our thinking process for all action streams from it.

      Jesus said, Do not condemn, but if you do, you will be condemned in like manner. Condemnation is in the Mind.

      Forgive to be forgiven. Forgiveness is in the mind.

    • Tony Muse profile image

      Tony Muse 5 months ago from Texas, USA

      I was raised an Seventh-day Adventist, which if you remove the writings of E.G. White is just a hop, skip and a small jump from Hebraic Roots Movement.

      No true Christian, Sabbath keeper or not, will assert that worshiping another God or idols are now condoned by God, and they will all not agree that killing, stealing, adultery, etc. are right in the eyes of God.

      Sp, let me ask you one thing, for I believe that it is the core of both SDA and HRM beliefs. Is it your belief that seventh day Sabbath keeping is what differentiates a "true" follower of Christ from those who merely "say" that they follow Christ, but follow the ways of the world and/or the beast?

      Peace

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      Kevin, first let me apologize for the attitude in my last comments. I really thought you were not sincere in your pursuit of righteousness but the Spirit of God has shown me otherwise and that I must treat you more respectfully. Please forgive me.

      There is no place in this age of Christ for the law of Moses. The law was given only to Israel and only for a season. It is judgment with no forgiveness but only condemnation. That is why no one could be saved by the law. It was their fruit of rejecting God that gave them the law.

      Now let me ask you to look at it another way.

      All authority on heaven and earth is given to Jesus for this age. The end of this age is at the judgment seat of God, where God will take the Lamb's book of life and judge ALL man that has ever lived. Only Jesus Christ can write your name in the book. Those whose names are written in the book will be allowed entry into the eternal kingdom of God and inherit the earth as scripture proclaims.

      Those whose names are not found in the book (they never became disciples of Christ or did not endure to the end) are cast into the lake of fire for their DESTRUCTION. This is the cleansing of all unrighteousness from the earth by fire. Total destruction in the fire.

      Matt 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

      1 Cor 15:20-28 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

      You have to understand the ages of man to understand the truth about this age. I have an article explaining this you should read. This is the key to understanding truth of this age through and in the end. Jesus Christ brought to us the opportunity to regain the life (eternal) that Adam lost in the garden by his disobedience.

      In the garden that God made for man there was no separation between God and Man. God said everything He made was GOOD and He approved it. The relationship with man that was approved by God was God living on earth with man, Adams disobedience in the garden caused separation, death. Man continues to reject God throughout the ages of man. But as man got more evil and rebellious the earth became so polluted that God could not stay there and He moved into heaven, not because he wanted to but because of the corruption of man.

      This life, what is left of it has two purposes. One reason Jesus came is to bring us life, that is those that will do all He requires to become disciples of Christ, sons of God, regain the eternal life to live on the new earth with God for eternity. The other is to separate them from the others that will be removed from the earth as was done in the days of Noah. God covenanted not to destroy man with a flood ever again but that He will destroy ALL unrighteousness from the earth that His sons may inherit a pure undefiled Earth. But because it being defiled so badly He cannot life on it He will then give a a new heaven and earth, then move onto it with His throne and live among His sons forever, which was His original intention but Adam defiled it.

      In other words it is all about God and the man He created to be restored to their original relationship, but without the rebellious ones that have defiled all of God's creation. That's it.

      The law was was part of the age of the Israelites and was for that age only, just as the flood was for the age of Noah to cleanse the earth and give man another chance at redemption.

      All past ages are lessons for us to learn about God and His desired relationship with man and have NO PLACE IN THIS AGE, other than to warn us of what not to do as all other ages were a failure and could not do what Jesus came and did and that is why He came, was mercilessly killed, was resurrected and stands in God's stead as our only redeemer and the entry to the eternal kingdom of God.

      .

      That is everything in a nutshell. If you can see this you can become a son of God, if not then it is not possible because the salvation (return of eternal life) is only available through Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE can have any place in the redemption.

      I pray you will let the real Holy Spirit of God show you all truth in this matter as He alone can do.

      Do NOT BE DECEIVED MY BELOVED are his words to you.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Jay,

      "We talking about one human being killing or harming another and that is Not right."

      Let's say you had to save your child. Your kid has done nothing wrong deserving of punishment yet someone takes them up and their life is at stake. All other choices failed. You wouldn't save your kid by harming the assailant?

      "It is right only to a Religious Terrorist. I renounce Terrorism and all writings which support it."

      Again, you're equating the emotion and action itself with being wrong. They're not. They're neutral.

      "Negative human emotions (anger, vengeance, jealousy) are the sin we are trying to end."

      May I ask, is happiness a positive emotion? What about sadness? What do you say?

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 5 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      "And harming and killing itself is not bad. Just misplaced. There's a time for these things (Ecclesiastes 3 3)."

      We are talking about one human being killing or harming another and that is Not right.

      It is right only to a Religious Terrorist. I renounce Terrorism and all writings which support it.

      Negative human emotions (anger, vengeance, jealousy) are the sin we are trying to end.

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Charlie,

      "First Let's look at your response , so you want to pick nits , ok."

      It's not so much that I want to nitpick. It's that you posted long comments, so it is helpful towardfs both you and any other readers to see what I'm responding too.

      "Yes I should have said Israel, but you knew what I meant."

      You can't say what I know. And even if that's the case I was just clarifying for those who read it and might become confused on the meanings of Jew and Israelite.

      "Second I John 3:4 has nothing to do with the torah or any other part of the law it is speaking in regard to Jesus and His (which is God's) Holy Spirit which was not available under your torah/"

      "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the LAW: for sin is the transgression of the LAW." Ket's look at the word used here. Strong's Concordance. 458. anomia: lawlessness. The Father who sent his son has only had one law, which is the Torah. Not "your Torah," but his alone. Now for a second witness here is the definition of this in the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon: 458. anomia, an-om-ee'-ah; from 459; illegality, i.e. violation of the law or (gen.) wickedness: --- iniquity X transgress (ion of) the law, unrighteousness. Now note that both lexicons it states that both of these words come from the Greek word #459. This word means "To be destitute or in violation of the Mosaic or Jewish Law" (See Thayer's and Strong's Lexicons). Now the word #458 is translated "transgression of the Law" in the King James version of 1 john 3 4. Here again, Paul equates this word (#458) Lawless with SIN. Romans 4:7 - "Blessed [are those] whose Lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;" Now here is an example where this word is used when translating the Old Testament. Hebr 1:9 - You have loved righteousness and hated Lawlessness (#458); Therefore Elohim, Your Elohim, has anointed You. With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

      "Third Luke 16:17 There is ONLY one correct understanding. At that time they are still under the law, still in the age of the Israelites until Jesus fulfilled the law by His death and resurrection and ended that age. The age of Christ, which is the end of the age of Israel does not begin until Luke 23:46 or 24:5 depending on how you see it. You clearly listen to apostate men and do not understand the scriptures."

      Matthew 5 17 says he fulfilled the law. Fulfill it, or make it known? "Pleroo", a Greek word being incorrectly translated as fulfilled in Matthew 5 17. The word means to fill make full/complete. That is what the Savior did. He made the law known fully against the Pharisees who enforced their own traditions. And I do my own studying. The only time I bring someone else's words in si if I study it for myself. I don't just take it. As a matter of fact there's been tons of times I denied someone's words, including a Torah keeper who believed in Christ's word.

      "Fourth- a smoke screen as I would expect from you You said you do not eat pork, because of the law."

      Yes, I did. What's your point? And how is what I said a smoke screen?

      "fifth Paul was an Israelite and HE COMPLETELY DENIED anything to do with the Law when He came to Christ after his eyes were opened. Another of your smoke screens."

      You say he completely denied it. Let's look at some verses where he quotes the law itself.

      Romans 2 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

      Romans 10 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Leviticus 18 5 'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.

      Romans 13 9 10 Commandments. Ecodus 20 13, Leviticus 19 8, Deuteronomy 5 7 the 10 Commandments.

      Galatians 5 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Leviticus 19 18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

      Here Paul twice states that we learn what sin is from the Law. This backs up the statement in 1John 3:4 that Sin is transgression of the Law.

      Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

      Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

      Here is a key scripture proving that Paul believed that thru faith we do not make the Law void, but rather we establish the Law (To cause or make to stand, #2476).

      Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

      Paul taught the disciples not to let anyone judge them for observing the Law

      Colo 2:16-17 - So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of the Messiah.

      (Source: Eliyah)

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Hi Jay,

      I disagree. Emotions like jealousy, anger, hatred are not bad themselves. They're just commonly misplaced. The High is jealous of people for serving other deities because he alone is the true one. It is right to be angry at unrighteousness, and abhorring evil is good.

      And harming and killing itself is not bad. Just misplaced. There's a time for these things (Ecclesiastes 3 3). I'd post more, but despite my disagreements with Charlie I think he got it right on this one in his comment towards you.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      jco- no problem, you keep your god, I will keep my God the creator of the universe and mankind

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 5 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      "jco- You think too much. I do not think, I know that you are in error. How do I know ? Because scripture says so in many places."

      That is the problem, you are not thinking. Any writing which depicts God with negative human emotions is Not God and Not Scripture!

      My God does Not have negative human emotions. Raise your thinking of God.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      First Let's look at your response , so you want to pick nits , ok

      Yes I should have said Israel, but you knew what I meant.

      Second I John 3:4 has nothing to do with the torah or any other part of the law it is speaking in regard to Jesus and His (which is God's) Holy Spirit which was not available under your torah

      Third Luke 16:17 There is ONLY one correct understanding. At that time they are still under the law, still in the age of the Israelites until Jesus fulfilled the law by His death and resurrection and ended that age. The age of Christ, which is the end of the age of Israel does not begin until Luke 23:46 or 24:5 depending on how you see it. You clearly listen to apostate men and do not understand the scriptures.

      Fourth- a smoke screen as I would expect from you You said you do not eat pork, because of the law

      some may but I will not submit to your false doctrines

      fifth Paul was an Israelite and HE COMPLETELY DENIED anything to do with the Law when He came to Christ after his eyes were opened. Another of your smoke screens

      As I said before everything you are trying to teach here is a lie, doctrines of apostate men that do not understand scripture and are devoid of the Spirit of God.. You can manipulate scripture all you want but you cannot change it to fit your false doctrine to anyone that heeds the scriptural admonition “DO NOT BE DECEIVED”, if they are filled with the real Holy Spirit of the real God of creation.

      You are a false prophet and are spreading doctrines that are not of God or His Christ according to the scriptures.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      jco- You think too much. I do not think, I know that you are in error. How do I know ? Because scripture says so in many places. Here are some scriptures that prove you are in error

      Ex 20:5-6 For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments

      Ex 34:13-14 But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images 14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

      Deut 4:24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

      Deut 5:9 For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,

      Deut 6:14-15 You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you 15 (for the Lord your God is a jealous God among you), lest the anger of the Lord your God be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth.

      Josh 24:19-20 But Joshua said to the people, "You cannot serve the Lord, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you, after He has done you good."

      Rev 2:6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

      Rev 2:15-16 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

      NKJV

    • Jay C OBrien profile image

      Jay C OBrien 5 months ago from Houston, TX USA

      Interesting article. Let us begin with an agreement that it is wrong for one human being to harm or kill another, OK?

      Let us further agree that our God is Good and does not have human shortcomings such as: jealousy, anger, hatred, (negative human emotions).

      I believe any depiction of God with negative human emotions is Blaspheme.

      What do you think of the above?

    • AF Mind profile image
      Author

      AF Mind 5 months ago

      Hi Charlie,

      I have a few disagreements with your interpretation of the scripture.

      "it is so sad that so many are being deceived by this garbage, The age of the Isreailite (jews) ended at the crucifiction and is not to be revived . It was a temporary measure and was to last from Moses to John. It was for the jews ONLY. Any one that believes and easp teaches this foolishness IS TOTALLY DECEIVED AND HAS BEEN SENT A STRONG DELUSION BY GOD SO THEY CANNOT SEE TRUTH. To teach this or believe it you are crucifying Christ all over and making a mockery of the sacrifice of His life ."

      For starters, Jews are not the only Israelites. The word Jew (Yehudi/Yehudim) comes from Judah (Yehudah), only one of the sons of Jacob, the ancestor of the 12 Tribes who was called Israel. The only other time people are called Jews in scripture is after the 12 Tribes split into two kingdoms, Southern Kingdom of Judah, and Northern Kingdom of Israel. Being a Jew does not mean you come from any of the tribes. It means you come from Judah or from one of the few tribes still allied with Judah. Paul was a Jew, but by lineage he was a Benjamite and Benjamin was allied with Judah. The Jews of the New Testament were the Southern Kingdom, not all of Yisrael. If that were so, that contradicts Hebrews 8 8 and the New Testament in general which says the new covenant is to reunite the 12 Tribes (Jeremiah 31 31-34), so Jew cannot mean all of Israel.

      Secondly, let's see what it means to sacrifice Christ all over again.

      Hebrews 6

      4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

      5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

      6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

      No mention of law adherance is here. It refers to falling away from the Most High. How do we do that? By sin, which according to 1 John 3 4 is transgressing the Torah.

      "Luke 16:15-17"

      There are a couple of ways to understand this passage without doing violence to the Torah. First, it could be understood that the Savior is saying that the Law and the Prophets were the only Scriptures in existence up to the time that John came on the scene. The implication is that more would soon come (ibid.). A second way to view this passage is that he is stating that the Torah and the Prophets prophesied or pointed to the time when John would come thus ushering in the Savior at which time there would be a change in the focus of the message of YHVH’s servants. Instead of just preaching about the Torah or that the Messiah is coming, now the message of “repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (see Matt 3:2; 4:17) would be preached. This is a more expansive message that focuses now more on the salvation message centered on the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua. This message also includes obedience to the Torah (e.g. Yeshua said, “If you love me, keep my Torah commandments” in John 14:15, also 1 John 2:2–6). (Source: https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2017/02/09/law-prop...

      "This scripture describes all who teach your lies. 1 Tim 4:1-4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth."

      There are two things wrong here. 1. "3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." It says that those who pushged these false doctrines pushed the forbiding of marriage and abstaining from sanctified foods. When have I forbidden anyone to marry? And this verse is not about eating unclean meats. At the time that Paul wrote this, there were various different cults that people put their faith in and many people placed their faith is multiple gods. As a matter of fact, the only group of people who were monotheist were the Jewish people.

      Paul was Jewish, a Pharisee and from the tribe of Benjamin. He studied under Gamaliel, one of the greatest Rabbis of his time. Paul would have had the Torah (First five books of the Bible) memorized. So I think we can agree that the Faith Paul is speaking of is the Jewish Faith of the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. This faith was centered around the observance of God's instructions for righteousness found in the Torah. When Paul speaks of people departing the faith, he is speaking of the faith that he himself believes in, which was worshiping God as instructed in the Torah.

      Then he brings up people who are teaching others to abstain from marriage and certain "foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving." First, since Paul's faith was as a Jew, for him, food would have been defined by Leviticus 11. That is where God tells us what creatures He created for us to be food. In verse 4 when Paul says that everything created by God is good and nothing should be refused he understands this and no doubt Timothy would have understood this to be in accordance with what they both considered food, based on Leviticus 11.

      The context of why Paul wrote what he wrote is that there were some people teaching others that they could not get married or eat certain foods (keep in mind that their definition of food was based on Lev. 11, not on what is considered food today). Paul is encouraging Timothy to not let false teachers affect his faith, not making a statement that anything and everything is considered food. (Source: Torah Babies)

      "Jesus Christ possesses ALL AUTHORITY IN THIS AGE. There is no place in this age for clergy or he law of Moses that was for Jews only. This age allows whosoeverwill to enter the Kingdom of God IF THEY ARE willing to pay the price. In light of these scriptures I rebuke you and command yo to stop deceiving those looking or scripture truth. You are pushing abominable lies."

      I agree. He has all authority. And I obey his authority by preaching the Torah he followed perfectly, that he did not abolish (Matthew 5 17), and taught to others (Mat 23:1-3, Mat 5:19)

      To the rest, I agree. Christ is above all creation. But I do want to point out one thing the verses said.

      Titus 2:11-15

      11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might REDEEM US FROM EVERY LAWLESS DEED and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

    • celafoe profile image

      charlie 5 months ago from From Kingdom of God living on Planet earth. between the oceans

      it is so sad that so many are being deceived by this garbage, The age of the Isreailite (jews) ended at the crucifiction and is not to be revived . It was a temporary measure and was to last from Moses to John. It was for the jews ONLY. Any one that believes and easp teaches this foolishness IS TOTALLY DECEIVED AND HAS BEEN SENT A STRONG DELUSION BY GOD SO THEY CANNOT SEE TRUTH. To teach this or believe it you are crucifying Christ all over and making a mockery of the sacrifice of His life .

      Luke 16:15-17

      And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

      Luke16: 16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

      If you read and understand scripiture it is clear this is a doctrine of apostate men. It shows the fruit of not understanding and following the scripture warnings. DO NO BE DECEIVED.

      1 Cor 15:33-34 Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits." 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

      2 Cor 11:1-4 e. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted — you may well put up with it!

      This scripture describes all who teach your lies

      1 Tim 4:1-4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

      And so does this one. only evil men devoid of the Spirit can receive such things and try to deceive others with these false beliefs

      2 Tim 3:13-15

      But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

      Jesus Christ possesses ALL AUTHORITY IN THIS AGE. There is no place in this age for clergy or he law of Moses that was for Jews only. This age allows whosoeverwill to enter the Kingdom of God IF THEY ARE willing to pay the price. In light of these scriptures I rebuke you and command yo to stop deceiving those looking or scripture truth. You are pushing abominable lies.

      Matt 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

      NKJV

      1 Cor 15:22-28

      22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

      NKJV

      Titus 2:11-15

      11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

      15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

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