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Is Lucifer the Devil?

Updated on July 7, 2012

True, False, or Assumed?

What have YOU been taught about Lucifer? I was taught he was the highest archangel in heaven that wanted to take over God’s throne. He was the leader of music, as instruments were built into his very being. I was taught that he caused a war in heaven and was cast out with a third of the angels with him. When he and his angels fell to earth, he became the Devil or Satan. This must have happened before Adam and Eve were created, as Lucifer was also the Serpent that deceived them in the Garden of Eden.

When I read somewhere that some people don’t believe Lucifer is Satan, I set out to prove he is. How? By studying the Bible, like I do whenever I have a question (or when someone else has a question I wish to knowledgably answer). You might be surprised at what I found out. It does not appear that what I was taught is correct.

I carefully looked up and read all the passages churches use to claim this traditional teaching. I have typed them here for you to carefully read also. You will see that Lucifer cannot be the same entity as Satan himself!

Was Satan an Angel?

Let’s start out with the war in heaven. I couldn't believe it when I recently read a hub that taught Michael, the Archangel was the one who caused the revolt in heaven! Though I corrected him, he still chooses to teach falsely! Amazing! Let's read about this war and see literally what the Bible says: the only account of this is found in Revelation 12:3-4a “And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.”

Now go on to verses 7-8 “And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” So, it's obvious that Michael is not a fallen angel, let alone the devil. Also observe that Lucifer is not mentioned in this passage at all.

Now, let's look at what the Bible says about this serpent in the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 3:1 “Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, ‘Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

  • Cross-reference this with Gen 2:19 “Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.”

Serpent is the Hebrew word nachash (naw-khawsh'); a snake (from its hiss):-serpent.

So far, we see the DRAGON waged war in heaven, not an angel. We also see that the SERPENT was a created beast of the field. What we don't see here is any inclination that Satan was an archangel by the name of Lucifer. In fact, Satan is never said to have been an angel "from the beginning". Let’s see what the Bible says about Satan:

John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

Dragon is the Greek word drakon (drak'-own); prob. from an alt. form of derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perh. as supposed to fascinate):-serpent. In fact, if you study the book of Revelation, this dragon with seven heads and ten horns is Satan, who rises up out of the “sea” of peoples, nations, tribes and tongues. Seven kingdoms with ten kings.

If you cross-reference the word "dragon" in Revelation, you will be brought to Psalm 74:14: “Thou didst crush the heads of Leviathan”. For a pretty graphic description of this dragon, read Job 41!

Speaking of "crushing heads", what was the curse on the "serpent" in Genesis 3:15? "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will crush your head, and you will strike His heel."

For more about Satan, I invite you to read one of my latest hubs, God Created Satan - Did God Create Evil? For now, we're going to focus on the identity of Lucifer.

Fallen Angels: Kings of the Earth

Was Lucifer in the Garden of Eden? Was he the serpent? Let’s look at the only passage used by traditional doctrine:

Ezekiel 28:12-16 “Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, ‘You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. On the day that you were created They were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.”

I don't see Lucifer mentioned here at all. In fact, it would be the "king of Tyre". I don't see an archangel mentioned here either, but rather a cherub. Did God place cherubim in the Garden of Eden? Yes.

Genesis 3:24 confirms, “So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.”

The only passage that mentions the name Lucifer (v. 12) is found in Isaiah 14:11-17 “Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.' How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (a proper name inserted in Latin by the Catholics) ~ in proper translation, it would state "star of the morning" ~ son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit. Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, Who made the world like a wilderness And overthrew its cities, Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?'”

In order to know who helel (star of the morning) is, we must go to the beginning of Isaiah 14:3-4 “And it will be in the day when the LORD gives you rest from your pain and turmoil and harsh service in which you have been enslaved, that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased!”

Obviously, we see that the cherub, the king of Tyre, has the same make-up as Lucifer, the king of Babylon. The king of Tyre is said to have “tabrets and pipes”, whereas the king of Babylon is said to have “music of harps”. Are they one in the same? It doesn’t appear so, if you look at Ezekiel 29:18 “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare. But he and his army had no wages from Tyre for the labor that he had performed against it."

These fallen cherubim were both the king of Tyre and the king of Babylon (aka 'Lucifer') and are NOT the same entity, let alone Satan himself.

Cherubim (four wings)
Cherubim (four wings)
Seraphim (six wings)
Seraphim (six wings)
Archangel: Michael
Archangel: Michael

Compare the Angels

We can reasonably deduct that the king of Tyre and the king of Babylon (aka 'Lucifer') are cherubim (instruments built into their beings based on scripture). Is a cherub a serpent-like creature? No. Is there an angelic being that resembles a serpent? Yes; the seraphim. How about an archangel? No. Let's look up some scripture about each of these angelic beings:

Ezekiel 10:20-21 “These are the living beings that I saw beneath the God of Israel by the river Chebar; so I knew that they were cherubim. Each one had four faces and each one four wings, and beneath their wings was the form of human hands.”

Cherub is the Hebrew word keruwb (ker-oob'); of uncert. der.; a cherub or imaginary figure:-cherub, [plur.] cherubim(s).

Isaiah 6:2 states, “Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew." Now, seraphim are defined as the only serpent-like creatures; however, the Bible does not state that seraphim were in the Garden of Eden.

Seraphim is the Hebrew word saraph (saw-rawf'); burning, i.e. (fig.) poisonous (serpent); spec. a saraph or symbol. creature (from their copper color):-fiery (serpent), seraph.

The word “archangel” is only used twice in the Bible: once in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, when Jesus returns with “the voice of the archangel”; the other is found in Jude 1:9 “But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you!’” We also don’t see an archangel in the Garden of Eden.

Archangel is the Greek word archaggelos (ar-khang'-el-os); a chief angel:-archangel.

In the Old Testament, the word angel is the Hebrew word malak (mal-awk'); from an unused root mean. to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):-ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

In the New Testament, the word angel is the Greek word aggelos (ang'-el-os); to bring tidings; a messenger; esp. an "angel", by impl. a pastor:-angel, messenger.

Fallen Cherub? Abaddon/Apollyon
Fallen Cherub? Abaddon/Apollyon

A Fallen Angel: King of Sheol (Hades/Hell/Abyss)

We read that 'Lucifer' was the king of Babylon, a fallen cherub just like the king of Tyre. The king of Tyre was in the Garden of Eden, cast out as “profane from the mountain of God”. The king of Babylon (helel) was “brought down or thrust down to Sheol, to the recesses of the pit”. Is there a king in Sheol who is also an angelic being? YES.

Revelation 9:11 “The king who ruled them was the angel from the bottomless pit (also called the abyss). In Hebrew he is called Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.” Abbadon/Apollyon means destruction (perdition). This is the NAME of that fallen cherub, the king of Babylon! Read on!

Revelation 11:7 (Regarding the two witnesses) “And when they have finished their testimony, the beast (Antichrist) that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.”

Revelation 17:8 “The beast (Antichrist) that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.”

Earlier in Isaiah 14:13-14 we read that the king of Babylon (helel) weakened the nations and said in his heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Cross-reference this with the prophecies of the Antichrist to come in Daniel 7:25 “He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.”
And also cross-reference with Daniel 11:36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.” If you begin reading in verse 28, you will see that Daniel is speaking of the “king of the north”.

It appears now, that this 'star of the morning' is indeed a fallen angel, the king of the bottomless pit, who comes up out of that pit to be the king of end-time Babylon, the Antichrist. Lucifer was called “a man”. Did angels come in the form of men in the Bible? Absolutely (Genesis 19:1, 5; Luke 24:4). We already confirmed that fallen angels are kings of the earth. In fact, if you look at the definition of the word "angel" in the previous section, you will see they are not only kings, but can be prophets, priests, teachers and pastors!

The Dragon (Satan) and 'Lucifer' (the Antichrist) cannot be the same entity. Why? Because the Antichrist and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ (Revelation 19:20). Satan, on the other hand, is bound in the bottomless pit during this reign of Christ. He is released after the millennial reign, destroyed, then cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10).

Six Doctrinal Corrections:

So now, let’s answer the following questions, based on this study:

1. Lucifer was the highest archangel in heaven.

  • False. It appears he was a cherub.

2. Lucifer wanted to take over God’s throne.

  • True. He is the king of Babylon, the king of the north, the prophesied Antichrist in Daniel 11:36 & Isaiah 14:13.

3. Lucifer was the leader of music in heaven, as instruments were built into his very being.

  • Assumed. He appears to be a cherub with musical instrument(s) built into his being. So was the king of Tyre.

4. Lucifer caused a war in heaven and was cast out with a third of the angels.

  • False. The Dragon, who is the “Serpent of Old, the Devil and Satan” warred in heaven and he was cast out with a third of the angels.

5. Lucifer became the Devil or Satan.

  • False. Because Lucifer is the king of Babylon and the prophesied Antichrist, he is cast into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the millennial reign of Christ; while on the other hand, Satan is bound in the pit until the end of the millennial reign.

6. Lucifer was the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.

  • False. The Dragon possessed the created serpent, a beast of the field, to entice Eve into sinning. Furthermore, because the cherub placed in the Garden of Eden appears to be the king of Tyre, it is unknown as to whether Lucifer (the king of Babylon) was in the Garden of Eden at all.

The only scripture that would tie Lucifer and Satan together is found in 2 Corinthians 11:14 “No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” Helel, as we saw in Isaiah 14:12 means “star of the morning”. Speaking of “Antichrist”, Jesus Christ is also called the “bright and morning star” in Revelation 22:16.

Truly, the LORD guised (not disguised) Himself as an angelic being (a man) to Abraham (along with the two angels that went to rescue Lot) in Genesis 18. Likewise, Satan will disguise himself as an “angel of light” (1 Cor 11:14) by empowering Abbadon/Apollyon (aka Lucifer/helel), the Antichrist (Revelation 13:2). Consider also, that Satan's servants disguise themselves as angels of light, as shown in 1 Cor 11:15 "Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."

For more information on Lucifer, I invite you to read my hub Lucifer: The spirit of Antichrist

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      Son of man 2 years ago

      Hello children of the one true living God, please ask the Lord Jesus Christ to let the Holy Spirit guid eyou.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Okay - you said, "Yes, he will possess a person called the "man of sin" as he did Judas, but only to the end, the world will worship "HIM" and further that plan. "And they WORSHIPPED THE DRAGON which gave power to the beast: and they WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, saying, who is like unto the beast?.." (Rev. 13:4) -- so, you've stated here that Satan possesses the "man of sin" who is, of course, the Antichrist. You can't possibly be saying the Dragon and the beast here are the same entity. Why, you ask?

      Because you then went on to say, "(I never said satan was the anti-christ)". Well, the two beasts in the above passage are TWO. You can look at the fact there are THREE beasts in Revelation. Read 16:3 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." Is Satan three beings, two of which are cast alive into the Lake a Fire a thousand years before he is? Just as twisted as the Catholic Trinity.

      So, "star of the morning" is not the Antichrist of "bright and morning star"? (Jesus) If not, then both the king of Babylon and the King of kings are "Lucifer" -- quite the twist of the Word there, eh? You are trying to say Satan possesses the Antichrist, but is not the Antichrist. How about the False Prophet who has "two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a Dragon" (Rev 13:11)? Oh, Satan possesses him, too! You have to agree that they are separate beings because of the "three frogs" and what I shared earlier regarding their separation at the start of the millennial reign.

      You're basically teaching that Satan possesses all his angels then. Thus, all the angels are Satan himself? Satan is not omnipresent. There's Satan (the Dragon), his angels and then there are demons - all numbered and none omnipresent. You would have to agree (unless you adore confusion). Accept the fact that this angel of Isa 14 (the king of Babylon) fights against the angel of Ezek 28 (the king of Tyre) in Ezek 29. Satan fights against himself? Jesus said, "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand" (thus why He couldn't be Satan casting out demons) - Mat 12:25. There is no proper name 'Lucifer', so this 'angel in heaven' that you call the "light bearer" is never said to have transformed into Satan, the Dragon. The Dragon was THERE in the war with Michael BEFORE the fall! The Dragon IS the "serpent of old, the Devil and Satan" and always has been - a "murderer FROM THE BEGINNING."

      I invite you to read my hub (the second one of the "Related Hubs" list above the comment section entitled, "God Created Satan - Did God Create

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      Again, the description of the “light bringer” (Latin Lucifer), in Isaiah 14: 12, in spite of your “teaching” to destroy any idea this is a "satanic" designation, is beyond doubt satan’s tactical advance to the throne of God in "Heaven". That "spiritual battle" in Heaven failed. In the physical world, he can only possess (take bodily control) of beasts and human agents carry out his "plan". This is his only channel left to get his day of worship. Yes, he will possess a person called the "man of sin" as he did Judas, but only to the end, the world will worship "HIM" and further that plan. "And they WORSHIPPED THE DRAGON which gave power to the beast: and they WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, saying, who is like unto the beast?.." (Rev. 13:4) Satan possesses a "man" that in turn causes the unsaved to worship HIM, (satan) plus the unsaved worship the "man" whom satan has possessed. That gives satan the best of both worlds; the spiritual and the physical. Both ways SATAN is worshipped. Satan has not, and WILL NOT share his desired position with another angel. (I never said satan was the anti-christ) Isaiah 14:12 is satan's designation--his climb and fall from Heaven. No earthy "king" can fit those "spiritual" components found in that scripture, and no other "angel" did what only satan has demonstrated throughout the rest of scripture to have done. Matt 4:8-10 Luke 10:18, Rev. 12:4,

      The word "hêylêl" , even though "Strong's" has "morning star" as a definition for the Hebrew, there is no connection to the Hebrew word "star" (kôkâb) in the term, only in that it brings forth "light". Strong is going back to antiquity and rendering a similar explanation for 'that word' that Jerome did which was the planet Venus--but Jerome saw the connection to satan in the texts he was translating. Jerome moved to Bethlehem while he translated the Vulgate and lived there for 35 years and became fluent in Hebrew. Now you can say "I always stick with the Hebrew", but do you speak fluent Hebrew and write Hebrew?

      It is also of interest that Pope Clement of Rome in his "Apostolic Constitutions" holds to "non-satanic role" in Isaiah 14:12 with another Pope Ambrose and others. The list includes two Popes and six Doctors of the catholic 'church' you can put in your corner of interpretation.

      As for satan being a "light bringer", this is referring to his former status in heaven; was "perfect in beauty and wisdom" and fell because of pride in his countenance. 2 Cor.14:11 is about satan's status AFTER HIS FALL , and does not suggest he "WAS" an angel of "light" in Heaven. After his demise he has power to appear as God's messenger by transforming his countenance to that rank of godly angel. Your suggestion, since he is the "bringer of light, already makes him an "angel of light" makes no sense and out of sync with the scripture.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA

      carrierwave - "Lucifer" is not an English word, but is Latin inserted into the Hebrew text that reads 'heylel'. I'll take the original language over any translation into another language. Heylel means "star of the morning" or "son of the dawn" and is not a Proper Name. In Rev 12 the phrase "third of the stars" is interpreted later in the same chapter as "third of the angels". We also know that angels were called "morning stars" and "sons of God" in Job 38:7. We agree that Lucifer is an angel; however you even said the name is described as "light bringer", so if Satan is already a "light bringer" or "angel of light", he doesn't have to disguise himself as one or transform himself into one. Jesus is called "the bright and morning star", so we can see that Lucifer is the Antichrist. You stated, "You cannot tell me satan is going to allow one of “his angels” to usurp his plan by getting attention away from him for one second?" Gee, the Bible tells me the Dragon (Satan) gives the Antichrist his power! (Rev 13:2) Isaiah 14:12-20 is about the KING OF BABYLON, a MAN if you read vs. 3 & 16! Who does God judge in Revelation? Mystery BABYLON.

      Satan is not the Antichrist, for they are split up at the beginning of the millennial reign. The Antichrist and False Prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire, while Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for the thousand years, after which he is also cast into the Lake of Fire. (Rev 19:20-20:10). You can go on and on, but I'm sticking with the Word.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      Furthermore, 2 Cor 11:14 states that Satan is 'disguised' or is 'transformed into' an angel. If he already IS an angel, he need not disguise himself or transform himself into one.”

      Take another careful look at this scripture but in the context with verse 15. This scripture does not say he was transformed into an angel! (That is what you said above) ; There is no deception or “marvel” in him as being an “angel“; it is when he puts on the disguise of “LIGHT” as an “angel of God“! “…God is LIGHT and in him is no darkness at all”. 1John 1:5. John 1:7-8 states that the Lord Jesus is the “LIGHT” that John the Baptist came to bear witness of. .Jesus called “himself” the “LIGHT” of the World”. More proof: Verse 15 states …“it is no great thing that HIS MINISTERS are transformed into MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS”. Notice: they did not become “ministers” when they are transformed; they were already “HIS ministers”; it was when those “ministers” put on the disguise of “righteousness” as “ministers of the Gospel” that Paul is warning about!

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      “You quoted 2 Cor. 11: 11-15. If we know Satan's servants do as he does, then why do you question how fallen angels could desire power, not only in the heavens but here on earth?”

      There are many things that satan wickedly does; yet according to scripture satan with his tail “drew a third part of the stars in heaven” Rev. 12:4 and the record shows that satan’s ultimate plan is his total “worship”. This is the ultimate slap in the face of God and if he can get the whole world to do it he has won. But God always has a “living” remnant on his side. Satan’s gaul and tenacity even led him to tempt the Son of God to “worship me” (him) He wants total preeminence over the creation of God and obliteration of the commandment of God: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” ; and that is a biblical fact. (Mat. 4:8-10) Satan’s angels are commissioned to carry out “his” plan. You cannot tell me satan is going to allow one of “his angels” to usurp his plan by getting attention away from him for one second? Every time man in pride wants worship, God brings him down. (Prov. 16:18). This is why I object to your “teachings” on this subject.

      Unwittingly, you are diminishing the awareness of satan’s tactical plan to be omnipotent, giving his angels a place in scripture that are designations only to satan. Whether the angels, as you stated, “could desire power” is irrelevant. The evidence proves satan has the allegiance and control of his troops. There is no other usurper of the very throne of God in Heaven but satan alone. Isaiah 14:12-20 is a designation to satan’s assault to that very throne of God in Heaven. The description of the “light bringer” (Latin Lucifer), in spite of your “teaching” to destroy any idea this is a satanic designation, is beyond doubt satan’s tactical advance to the throne of God in Heaven. His desire to “ascend into heaven (3rd heaven) and set up a throne there “on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north”.. above the clouds and the stars of God. This can only be a satanic designation.

      I also see another dangerous pattern in your “teaching”; that is your attitude toward God’s revelation in the Word the God. You are pushing the modern versions which have shown to be corrupted with some 60,000 words omitted from the majority text while “catholicizing” any version that is using the Latin redition “lucifer” in Isaiah 14. Your distain for “lucifer” casts doubt on the whole of scripture in any translation containing it. This is sets dangerous precedence over God’s preservation of His words into the English language.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
      Author

      Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA

      I don't know why the obsession, carrierwave (remind me of another hubber, newenglandsun and his handful of various handles/identities).

      You quoted 2 Cor. 11: 11-15. If we know Satan's servants do as he does, then why do you question how fallen angels could desire power, not only in the heavens but here on earth? Michael, the Archangel, is the 'prince' over Israel, but Jesus is the King of Israel. As the Son of God He is the Prince of Peace, while yet the King of kings. We know the "Angel of YHWH" or the "Angel of the LORD" was not a created angel, but was the image of God Himself (who is Spirit). Thus, while Jehovah's Witnesses and SDA's believe Jesus to be an 'angel', they are sorely mistaken. Titles are nouns as well. Lucifer, the proper name, is NOT in the Hebrew text. I don't care how many translations inserted it; it's not there.

      Furthermore, Ezek 28:2 uses the word for 'ruler' of Tyre (not 'prince') and vs. 11 uses the word for 'king'. These are one in the same being. Angels are certainly called princes in several scriptures, either way (Dan 10:20-21; Dan 12:1). This word for 'ruler', even 'king' is also used in Eph 2:2, so you really have no argument, in light of all the scriptures.

      1Cor. 14:32 and Isaiah 28: 9-10 do not prove your point, but is rather your opinionated attack.

      You said, "Let me also postulate using “what the Bible does not say” about Revelation 12. You will note that “it never states” that Michael “is an angel” either in this scripture. Michael and his angels fought against the “dragon” (Satan) and his angels”. Well, Jude 1:9 specifically calls Michael an Archangel (Greek 743. Archangelos). He is the only Archangel mentioned in Scripture. The Dragon, the serpent of old, the devil and Satan, on the other hand, is NOT called an Archangel or even an angel anywhere in Scripture. Furthermore, 2 Cor 11:14 states that Satan is 'disguised' or is 'transformed into' an angel. If he already IS an angel, he need not disguise himself or transform himself into one.

      I have taught that the serpent was a created beast of the field. Just as Satan entered into Judas, he entered the created beast of the field, just as he influenced Cain to murder his brother. Thus, Revelation refers to Satan as "the serpent of old'. The "serpent seed" doctrine is extra-biblical, contradicts Gen 4:1 and is absolutely false (heresy). If YOU don't believe the serpent in the Garden is speaking about Satan, then you must believe the cherub in Ezekiel 28 was "in Eden, the Garden of God", which the cherub "Lucifer" in Isa 14:12 is not said to have been there ever. A cherub is not a serpent-like angel. The seraphim are serpent-like. These two kings (cherubim) fight against each other, so they are obviously not the same angel, let alone one entity called Satan.

      I am not a Jehovah's Witness. I used the Holy Bible to prove the doctrine of Satan not being an angel by the very Word of God. It is you who have not given ANY scriptural evidence that Satan was an angel "from the beginning" - that bright, musically talented, most powerful Archangel seeking to overtake God's throne.

      If you really look at the angel hierarchy, Archangels are not the most powerful angels. Cherabim and Seraphim are more powerful. Michael did as we should do when rebuking the Devil or Satan, that "serpent of old" - go the the LORD Jesus Christ to rebuke him! Satan reports to His Creator, as is evident in Job. Once cast out, even overpowered by Michael and his angels, he knows his place. The kings of the earth that were doing as "their father the devil" did and does, sought/seek to make themselves higher than God. Look at the Pharisees - furthermore, look at the Pope! We had a hubber here that passed away a couple of years ago, who boasted how his theological books (mocking God and the Bible) were more popular than the Bible!

      I have a biblical grasp on how the spirit realm intertwines with the physical realm. If you want to read on that subject, I invite you: http://judahsdaughter.hubpages.com/h......

      Basically, you're quoting your own indoctrinated reasoning, but NO Scriptures to prove "Lucifer" is Satan. That's what I used to do. Sorry, but I'm sticking with only what the Bible clearly teaches. As far as this sound doctrine leading to more questions - search the Word. The answers are there. Thus, the link above regarding the intertwined spiritual and physical realms.

      Now, I haven't attacked you or called you names. I would appreciate it if you would not be so reactive, though after being in the HubPages community for four years, this stuff doesn't ruffle my feathers as it used to.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      "Satan is NEVER called an angel in the Scripture. All names are proper nouns, not adjectives. And Jesus is both Prince and KING."

      This above is a flat out FALSEHOOD! and you know it!

      2Cor 11:14

      Jesus Christ is "Prince of Peace" and He is "KING OF THE JEWS" He is many things--but NOT a "prince" of a nation and King also of that same nation. I say you need to REPENT.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." - Ephesians 6 :12.

      This scripture proves there is always a "spiritual" power behind every "temporal" power. That spiritual power behind the temporal one is clearly portrayed when Satan tempted the Lord Jesus with ALL the kingdoms of the earth and the GLORY of them in Matthew 4:4-10. Satan is in control of the ungodly kingdoms and nations on this earth. Jesus never challenged Satan with that claim. His draconian rule of planet earth continues until will continue until Revelation 11:15 when .."the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ." With this TRUTH in view, lets analyze Ezekiel 28 in the light of Mat.4:8-10

      In Ezekiel 28 we find in the beginning of the chapter, Ezekiel is instructed to speak to the "prince" of Tyrus ; the “prince” is the temporal authority. Then in verse 11... Things suddenly change. God tells Ezekiel to speak to the "king" of Tyrus, the spiritual power behind the temporal.

      According Mat. 4:8-10 who the “spiritual” controller of Tyrus? Answer: SATAN

      The temporal “ruler” of Tyrus is the “PRINCE” ( נגד נגיד a commander) of Tyrus according to Ezekiel 28:1-2

      By simple deduction, and rightly dividing the God’s Word the “KING” ( מלך royal, supreme potentate) of Tyrus is SATAN.

      More proof:

      When was the last time God referred to a “human” as a cherub (verse 14), or what human was alive and in the garden of Eden other than Adam and Eve (verse 13)?

      It can be none other than Lucifer/SATAN!

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      "These fallen cherubim were both the king of Tyre and the king of Babylon (aka 'Lucifer') and are NOT the same entity, let alone Satan himself."

      So, are you saying these "KINGS" are "types" of fallen angels? If they are "types" of fallen angels--WHICH ANGELS? Who has desired to be worshipped as GOD and he gets that chance during the tribulation hour, and even tempted the Lord Jesus in the wilderness to worship him Mat.4:9-10. There is only ONE wicked spiritual being who has the desire and AUTHORITY to be worshipped "like the most high" EL' ELYON

      "S A T A N". Your research is very flawed and out of sync with the bulk of scripture on this subject. The problem you have created by this is that you have "fallen angels" wanting to unseat God and be GOD, plus you have SATAN grasping to do the same! Don't you see the conflicting arrangement here and lack continuity? Satan is in charge of "HIS ANGELS". None of these wicked followers dare challenge SATAN for preeminence. Even the "archangel" Michael "durst not bring a railing accusation" against SATAN. (Jude 1:9)

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      Hello,

      Was Satan an Angel? You began your ‘analysis’ not with scripture, but with a rant towards another Hub editor who proposes that Michael “started the war in heaven” with the “dragon” in heaven in Revelation 12. Obviously that Hub editor is mistaken, yet you seem to use his ‘error’ as a springboard to launch your ‘evidence’ that Satan is never mentioned as an ‘angel’ in this portion of scripture. Basing a hypothesis on “what the Bible does not say” in a ‘single verse’ is weak ground initially because doctrinal truth can only be based upon ‘everything’ the Bible says on the subject (1Cor. 14:32) Also see: Isaiah 28: 9-10. What you have postulated from this ‘one scripture’ using “evidence of absence” cannot be logically proven on the basis of the Bibles method of interpretation, period.

      Let me also postulate using “what the Bible does not say” about Revelation 12. You will note that “it never states” that Michael “is an angel” either in this scripture. Michael and his angels fought against the “dragon” (Satan) and his angels”. So we are on equal ground of proof employing only the “evidence of absence” in ‘one verse’ for both the “dragon” and Michael as being “angels”. Both have angels and both are never identified with being “angel”. (Contrary to your ‘claim’ both the “dragon” (Satan) and Michael are called ἄγγελος (angels) in scripture: 2Cor. 11:14 and Jude 1:9)

      Next, you try to prove the “dragon” (satan) of Revelation 12 is the same as the “serpent” from creation in Genesis 3:1. Simply stated, you boldly announce that the “serpent” (the animal) IS the DRAGON of Revelation 12! The evidence? Again, you incorporate “evidence of absence” as a measuring stick and referred back to Revelation 12! “What we don't see here is any inclination that Satan was an archangel by the name of Lucifer. In fact, Satan is never said to have been an angel "from the beginning".(False 2Cor 11:14) (evidence of absence)

      What you have failed to do is use God’s method of interpretation. You furthermore ignore the obvious question--how do you make the connection between the ‘animal/serpent’ in the garden with the “dragon” (Satan) Revelation 12? The “serpent” is a physically created ‘animal’ “beast (Hebrew “chay” living raw FLESH) of the field” Genesis 3:1 (the serpent, by the way, DIED like all beasts of the field after the fall of Adam) the other a “spiritual” entity cast out of Heaven! You fail to make any connection. (This reminds me of the J.W. doctrine that physical bodied Jesus died and is forever dead--but a “spirit being” called “the christ” appears in heaven in his place; A denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ).

      Next, you quote John 8:44. (What you are trying to prove here I do not know exactly as you don’t explain)--I perceive an intention to link the “devil” as a murderer from the “beginning” the “serpent”. The only “murder” committed at the beginning was Cain slaying Abel Genesis 4:8. The beast (chay raw FLESH) “serpent” is nowhere present, but it was Cain that “murdered” Abel. The “seed of the serpent” came through ADAM to his sons--Rom 5:12. The fallen nature of man came through ADAM not the “serpent”--The “seed of the serpent” is the “spirit of unbelief” in all of us until we are saved by FAITH in God’s GRACE.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      Hello,

      Read my post again--I am trying to find out where I said the "prince" and the "king" of Tyre were both the same entity; satan.(??) Do you know what a "type" is? I believe I said that, right ? Also, Satan is referred to, at least in rank, as an "angel of light" as his ministers are "ministers of righteousness". 2 Cor. 11: 11-15 . Another point, God gives proper names to individuals with built-in "adjectives" and compound terms that describe many times the character or work of the person named. Since you say "lucifer" is "not in scripture" that tells me you have rejected all translations from Tydale's work to the Authorized version, 1611 over 300 years of translating of the majority text into the languages of Europe. That's pretty bold.

      Have a nice eternity--

      carrierwave~

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi carrierwave - You don't answer how it is the prince or king of Tyre and the king of Babylon can be the same entity (Satan), as they fight against each other. Secondly, you said, "There is only ONE central figure of note which “fell from heaven” ..." - not true. Satan and a third of the angels fell from heaven. Both the cherub in Isa 14:12 and Ezek 28:13 were fallen angels. Satan is NEVER called an angel in the Scripture. All names are proper nouns, not adjectives. And Jesus is both Prince and KING. The name 'Lucifer' is not in the Scripture. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and then translated into other languages, and this adjective, 'lucifer', became a Catholicized entity known as Satan -- the Bible does not support this doctrine whatsoever, as I have written on the thorough Bible study conducted here. As I stated, I set out to prove Lucifer was/is Satan, but had to change my indoctrinated views to agree with what the Bible teaches.

      Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate it. Blessings to you.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      I believe many times the Lord speaks about subjects and people using metaphors more often than people realize. If you will notice Ezekiel 28 there is something interesting in regard to this ’Babylonian’ ruler that I have not seen addressed in any of the comments. Instead of starting in verse 12, go back all the way to verse 1. “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the PRINCE of Tyrus.”.. I stop here to point out the differences here between vs. 1-2 and vs. 12. First, these are 2 different visions; the first vision the Lord tells Ezekiel to address the “Prince” of Tyrus in vs. 1-2 and goes on to describe an individual who makes himself “a God” and sits in the “seat of God”, but the Lord said, “..yet thou art a man”. From this point on this vision shows the “fall” of this PRINCE and the destruction he suffers through the “strangers” the “terrible of the nations”. This is the first of 2 visions in chapter 28 seen by Ezekiel a contemporary of Daniel. You will also note vs. 11 the 2nd vision begins with a prophecy of lamentation for the “KING” of Tyrus which begins in verse 12. The Lord here is clearly addressing a different beings with obvious attributes far above the previous “prince” in the first vision. These attributes are of a supernatural nature beyond mere human potential. “Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty” vs. 12. This “KING” (not the “prince”) was in “EDEN” and was a “cherub” fell because of pride “by reason of thy brightness”. (This begins to sound more and more like Isaiah 14:12-16 of “Lucifer”. My point is the Lord is using human “princes” as types of the “KING” . If “Lucifer” of Isaiah 14:12 be a mere human, than he is a type of SATAN. Ezekiel gives further descriptions and attributes no mere human could possibly posses. Jesus saw the “fall from heaven” of “SATAN” Luke 10:18 and the “fall from heaven” of “Lucifer” Isaiah 14:12. There is only ONE central figure of note which “fell from heaven” because of pride of his “brightness” that the scriptures identify, whether a type (“Lucifer”) or real, and that is SATAN. I see no difference between them, all pointing to the same being, and far less confusing in this view.

      As regards the identity of the “morning-star” (so translated) of Isaiah 14:12: if indeed it is correctly identified as Satan addressed through the person of the king of Babylon (whoever that historic individual was it is debated.), it is no legitimate objection that the term “morning-star” is also a title of Christ (as indeed it is, Revelation 22:16). It is to be noted that the term “lion” is one also applied in Scripture to both Satan (I Peter 5:8) and Jesus (Revelation 5:5). As with “lion,” so with “morning star,” the terms are metaphors used to characterize the individuals in question, and it is not unsuitable to use both descriptive metaphors for radically differing individuals.

    • carrierwave profile image

      carrierwave 3 years ago

      Hello,

      It seems there is very little room to question whether Lucifer and Satan are the same entity, yet I think the similarities are all too striking to abandon (discount) that they are one and the same being. Much of the controversy here seems more of differences of opinion about how to translate the Hebrew word "heylel" or “HYLL” which, whether “Lucifer" is “catholic” inspired, doesn’t hold a lot of weight historically. However “HYLL” was translated over the same way by Hebrew linguists of KJV translators as correct from the textus receptus and comparisons to MANY other TR Western European language translations such as one, the Geneva Bible.

      Jerome’s translation of the OT, made directly from the Hebrew text of his day, and dating to ca. A.D. 400, it translates “HYLL” in Isaiah 14:12, as “lucifer.” Cassell’s Latin dictionary identifies this word as an “adjective“, meaning “light-bearing, light-bringing.”

      William Smith’s Smaller Classical Dictionary notes that “Lucifer” (Latin) and “Phosphoros” (Greek) are both “epithets” given the planet “Venus” in antiquity, along with a few other designations. “Lucifer” was also used as a designation in mythology of several goddesses of light, including Artemis, Aurora, and Hecate, and others.

      If Jerome intended “lucifer” here to be a “proper name“, ordinary Latin usage in his day (ca. A.D. 400) might suggest that he was simply thereby signifying the planet “Venus“, but evidence from his own writings (in the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VI) indicates he interpreted Isaiah 14:12 as referring to “Satan’s fall“, and thereby, apparently, meant Lucifer as a “designation” of the “Devil“. Those who insist on retaining “lucifer” from the Vulgate in the English Bible are simply in essence affirming or re-affirming Jerome’s interpretation of that text, and the accuracy of the Latin Vulgate version. I tend to agree with this finding and makes more sense being historically and linguistically accurate of “Lucifer” rather than some devious, “catholic”, rendering to deceive us.

      Jerome’s use of “lucifer” to translate HYLL had a strong influence on Bible translations into the many languages of Western Europe, BEFORE the English KJV, meaning godly scholars throughout that region of Europe concurred with Jerome’s rendering. According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) under the entry “lucifer,” all English Bibles from Wycliffe (ca. 1384; his version was based directly on the Vulgate) to the KJV had “Lucifer” at Isaiah 14:12, apparently as a proper name, though possibly as a borrowed Latin adjective. This is hard evidence for the use “Lucifer” as divinely intended in my opinion.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

      I don't read anywhere that the Dragon 'went into heaven', RyanAlucard. That would mean he started out OUTSIDE of heaven, then WENT INTO heaven. The war IN heaven preceded the Dragon and his angels' fall to the earth. Some think it's a future event, and yet the Scriptures declare otherwise, for the Serpent of Old was on the earth. Even when Satan came before the LORD with the 'sons of god' in Job 2:1, vs. 2 is when God asks Satan what he's been up to and Satan answered he'd been going to and fro on the earth...Furthermore, Rev 12 speaks of the Woman (Israel) giving birth to Jesus who was 'caught up to God and His Throne' (already happened).

      Revelation interprets the seven 'heads' of this Dragon as governments, and the 'horns' or 'crowns' as rulers. The Dragon is Satan, the 'Serpent of Old' and the 'Devil', for these titles are all in the same sentence, meaning the same force. Just as the Holy Spirit works through His Church (there were 'seven' churches throughout the first three chapters of Revelation), as there are 'seven' heads on the Dragon. These forces oppose each other.

      Rev 13:2 tells us the Dragon beast gives power to the Antichrist beast, who is the 'man' Isaiah 14:12-17 speaks of. Satan is able to enter both beast or person, as he did the Serpent in the Garden of Eden and Judas in John 13:27.

      "Samael" is not mentioned in the Bible or even in the Book of Enoch; however, shows up in the Jewish Talmud and other extra-biblical writings. He is said to be an Archangel, which we know is not a Seraph based on Biblical descriptions. If he supposedly has 12 wings, that description also does not align with an Archangel or the Dragon of seven heads and ten horns/crowns.

      The Bible NEVER calls the Dragon an angel, anymore than YHWH is an Angel. YHWH's Angel is a manifestation/appearance of His invisible Spirit to speak His audible Word to mankind, just as when "Satan disguises himself as an 'angel of light'" - in order to manifest/appear to speak his audible word to mankind. Jesus rebuked Satan, not Peter himself in Mat 16:23, for instance.

      Michael is an Archangel, if not the only Archangel (for no others are mentioned in the Bible as such, specifically). Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon and his angels. God has angels and the Dragon has angels. This division happened in heaven and if Samael exists, he is obviously one of the Dragon's angels, but not the Dragon himself. 'Samael' means 'Venom of God' - does this then mean God is the Serpent? Or is Samael the Venom of the Serpent of Old? While venom is produced by the Serpent, it is not the Serpent itself.

      The Bible names the Antichrist's spiritual name - it is not Lucifer or Satan, but Abaddon/Apollyon - Destruction/Perdition. Satan will work through him, Satan's Dragon nations and kings will give him his power, throne and authority.

      Regarding the Death Angel - if we go back to when the Angel of Death came over Egypt to claim the firstborn of every Egyptian, even of their animals, we read in Ex 12:23 (KJV) "For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you."

      I hope this is helpful. Thank you for reading and commenting. God bless you.

    • profile image

      RyanAlucard 4 years ago

      Hi I know this hub is a bit old but who exactly is the dragon that went into heaven? For some reason I believe Samael is the dragon.. But I don't know since he is an angel of god who went to oversee hell, correct? I'm pretty confused on who the dragon is and who exactly samael is I'm believing he is the angel of death that's in gods grace but I'm not sure.. Do you know anything about this? Because you answered my question about this topic.

      Oh and I read somewhere that Samael is also in the garden if Eden and tempted eve to eat the apple?

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

      How do you know a counterfeit dollar bill? Not by studying the counterfeit, but by studying the authentic one. That's all I can tell you. Stick with the Holy Bible and study the original Hebrew and Greek wording, for translations can even give you doctrines of error. It takes labor, prayer and trust in the LORD to teach you.

      1 John 2:27 "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      No, I've seen plenty of Anti-Mormon stuff slandered across the internet. I just want a general response of how you figured such. Was it family? TV? Internet? Preacher?

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

      You mean that LDS is a false doctrine? If you would like me to provide links to hubs I've written on the subject, I will provide them for you.

    • Wakerra profile image

      Wakerra 4 years ago

      um...ok. How did you come to that conclusion?

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Wakerra, I did not post your comment, and want you to know that I do not even consider LDS doctrine, for it is a false doctrine. Since your 'bible dictionary' is a link (s) to an lds site, I will not even look at it and nor should you. I pray you will repent and come into the Light.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi I.7 ~ Praise God! I apologize for not responding to you sooner, due to my work schedule. I appreciate your confirmation of the study of the scriptures and the only conlusion we can come to, based on their accurate interpretation. God bless you as you continue to grow and share what He teaches you. Thank you.

    • profile image

      L7 5 years ago

      I enjoyed your essay on lucifer. As I read thru the Bible the first time last year I came to this same conclusion. And came to understand the importance of not just looking at a verse but looking at the surrounding verses, then the surrounding chapters to understand the context. God bless.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Amen, JasonNeo. Amen.

    • JasonNeo profile image

      JasonNeo 5 years ago

      God bless you,although i donot agree with you.Let God who see and know all things be the judge.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      JasonNeo, are you smoking dope? You already said famous james said something he didn't say, and now you "quoted" me as saying something I didn't say. Is this how you read the Bible, too? Yes, Satan was cast out of heaven BEFORE he embodied the Serpent, not BECAUSE he embodied the Serpent. Now, I'm done with this ridiculous discussion. If God has allowed you to be blinded, who am I to 'make' you see?

    • JasonNeo profile image

      JasonNeo 5 years ago

      @judah's daughter- you said "satan was cast out of heaven for embodying the serpent"?Why should God do that?By saying this you have contradicted your own assumptions,because before casting out of heaven satan should have been sinless,Amen?

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      @JasonNeo "while i appreciate your straightforward attitude,it's not good for a believer to be rigid in his or her views.We must always be open to new ideas,if it's in tune with scriptures." I have given you the 'tune' and you refuse to sing the song!

      1 Corinthians 11:19 "For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you."

      2 Timothy 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."

      "from the beginning" is the same as the first three words of the Bible "In the beginning". Satan was already Satan and cast out when he embodied the created serpent and was then judged to his belly. You are coming up with your OWN, private interpretation, which is condemned in the Bible. Repent.

    • JasonNeo profile image

      JasonNeo 5 years ago

      @judah's daughter-while i appreciate your straightforward attitude,it's not good for a believer to be rigid in his or her views.We must always be open to new ideas,if it's in tune with scriptures.

      John8:44-use the phrase "from the beginning" in the sense that from the beginning of mankind.Which means when in the beginning of humanity,in garden of eden-satan who came as the serpent had already fell from his glorius position as an angel.God further judges him in genesis3:15 after he decieves Adam and Eve,which sealed his fate forever(that Jesus the son of Mary will destroy the head of satan's offspring-antichrist/beast,which happened on the cross and will be visible in the physical world in the coming delusion and wrath period).

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      JasonNeo, You cannot prove by scripture that Satan was ever an angel, nor can you prove by scripture that "God didn't create any package for destruction."

      John 8:44 “He [Satan] was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

      Col 1:16 "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him." (cross-ref Eph 6:12)

      Isa 54:16 "Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals And brings out a weapon for its work; And I have created the destroyer [7843 shachath - a verb meaning to spoil, to ruin, to destroy, to pervert, to corrupt, to become corrupt, to wipe out] to ruin."

      Prov 16:4 "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked [7563 rasa – wicked or criminal] for the day of evil."

      Isa 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil [7451 – ra = bad, evil]: I the LORD do all these things.”

      Lam 3:38 “Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities [7451] and good things come?”

      Amos 3:6 “If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity [7451] occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?”

      Now, calamity is not ordained by God to befall His children, as promised in Jer 29:11: “'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity [7451] to give you a future and a hope.”

      You just don't want to accept what the scriptures declare, because you've been indoctrinated otherwise, with a belief that 'tickles your ears'.

    • JasonNeo profile image

      JasonNeo 5 years ago

      No that is certainly not what i meant.What he said you very well know and understand.

      God didn't create any package for destruction according to scriptures.He created satan as an angel -cherub with specific purpose.But satan and 1/3rd of angels fell from their glory because of pride.That is why pride filled hearts are still unable to find God.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hello JasonNeo - famous james did not say "if Evil was directly created by God as this hub states,then "justice" of God has no meaning." If that's what YOU think, then say so.

      We cannot argue with Isaiah 45:7; likewise, Mat 25:41 states, "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" What does 'prepared' mean? It means something that is made beforehand. Satan and his angels were created for their purpose, and predestined for the Lake of Fire. Mankind, on the other hand, will choose to have his/her name blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life (for everyone's names start out in it, because Jesus is the Savior of the whole world), sealing their own fate to the Lake of Fire. That fire was not pre-pared for mankind, but for the Devil and his angels.

      As I've stated before, if you package food for consumption, do you not create the packaging that will be discarded and destroyed, once its fulfilled its purpose? You've commented plenty on my other hub; this one is not about that subject, but rather showing that 'Lucifer' is not the 'Devil'. You can rely on your own reasoning, or consider the Sovereignty of the Creator of all things, including evil. The Bible declares it, and I'm not over-riding the Bible with my own 'understanding'.

    • JasonNeo profile image

      JasonNeo 5 years ago

      I completely agree with what famousJames said.If Evil was directly created by God as this hub states,then "justice" of God has no meaning.So "judah's daughter" it would be wise to reconsider your understanding of the subject.God bless you.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Yes, famous james, all evil is predestined (Satan and his angels) and destined (those who choose to serve Satan and his anges) to the Lake of Fire.

      You answered your first question, "where did they come from?" by quoting Isaiah 45:7.

      Here is the study on the alignment of Lucifer and the prophesied Antichrist: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/LUCIFER-T...

      As to Isaiah 45:7, I have just recently written on this subject in my hub "God Created Satan - Did God Create Evil?" https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/God-Creat...

      I hope these two hubs will sufficiently answer your questions, all to the glory of God. God bless you, as well.

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      famous james 5 years ago

      Some where in the introduction you stated that Lucifer can not be the same entity as Satan himself. (I do not understand). Could you enlighten me on where did they come from, and if in fact they are not from the same entity as you claimed.( the word entity means real being, reality, existence, a material substance). Who is Lucifer? And why you claim he is the antichrist. Where in scripture, that support that he Lucifer indeed is the antichrist. Whether Satan is Satan, Lucifer is Lucifer, Serpent is Serpent, Beelzebub is Beelzebub it's all going to hell in the lake of fire. The kingdom of evil.

      If I walked out to my back yard, to see the beautiful landscape and the fresh cut grass. I would examine it to be perfect. Even though the word of God, said he created all things, he create evil. Whether it was Lucifer or Satan, took it upon itself to examine it and excepted it in the desire of it perfect being. Even by back yard as perfect as it may be have holes in it. Only if I desire to take a shove and dig.

      Thank You for Listen.

      I said to all Repent and accept Jesus as your Savior.

      God Bless.

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Jesus IS the Alpha & Omega, Immanuel and Yehovah = YES, He is God.

    • profile image

      famous james 5 years ago

      Is not Jesus... God?

    • Judah's Daughter profile image
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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Appreciate your comment, famous james. You have categorized Good (God) and Evil (Devil). We're talking about 'persons' here; 'identity'. In other words, just as Michael the Archangel is not God, Lucifer (heylel), a fallen cherub, is not Satan. While there is no separating the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, aka the Alpha & Omega, Immanuel and Yehovah, there is no separating 'the Dragon, the Serpent of Old, the Devil and Satan'.

      The Father of Truth is God; the father of lies is Satan. Both have children that serve them (John 8:44; 1 John 3:10) . Both have angels that serve them. While the Spirit of God can cast out Satan, Satan cannot cast out the Spirit of God. Satan cannot cast out Satan, anymore than God would cast out God.

      The Bible is given to us for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (2Tim 3:16), thus the purpose of this teaching.

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      famous james 5 years ago

      People of comments, Stop!!! Listen to yourselves for a minute. Now I get the fact that God created all things Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, created darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the lord do all these things. However, we must take into consideration, that a sin is a sin. Whether it's murder, rape, stealing, hate,false gods, fornication, adultery, blasphemy. Know matter what form or shape it represent itself, it is a sin. The same goes for Lucifer, Satan, Devil, Dragon, Serpent and Beelzebub who is the prince of the devils. read Mark3:22. They are all the same and have the same objective. read Mark 3:23 Jesus said , How can Satan cast out Satan. v24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom can not stand. v26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he can not stand, but hath an end. Jesus called him Satan read Luke 10:18 I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Satan was from the beginning of creation, before the fall of man, and that Jesus was made already for our Salvation. Listen.. Is not the Father, Son, Holy Ghost the same ? (Yes) Is not not, I am, Alpha & Omega, Immanuel, Jehovah the same(Yes) Why? Because it is for righteousness and will not divide against itself.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Vineeth, you said correctly, "If we take this literally, this would point to him being a fallen angel." Yes. Were angels cast out of heaven with Satan? Yes. Does that make Satan an angel? No.

      You're implying 'Lucifer', a fallen angel, could embody both the king of Babylon (Is 14) and the king of Tyre (Ez 28) at the same time and fight against each other in Ez 29? That makes no sense. You are assuming and contradicting scripture if you believe they are the same fallen angel.

      An angel is not defined as a Dragon or vise versa. The only angelic being that resembles a fiery serpent is the seraph, and they are most certainly not cherubim.

      I already answered your question regarding the creation of Satan who is predestined for hell on my hub "God Created Satan - Did God Create Evil?" Hell is already prepared for Satan and his angels (Mat 25:41). If I am a manufacturer and package food, I plan the food to be eaten and the packaging cast away or burned. Likewise, based on 2 Sam 24:1 "And again the anger [639 – a nostril, nose, face, anger] of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he [Satan] incited [5496 – incite, allure, instigate] David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah" and the cross-reference of the exact same incident in 1 Chr 21:1 "Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved [5496] David to number Israel", Satan appears to be an instrument of God's wrath.

      Prov 16:4 "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked [7563 rasa – wicked or criminal] for the day of evil."

      Isa 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil [7451 – ra = bad, evil]: I the LORD do all these things.”

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      Why can't the spirit within king of babylon(isiah) be the fallen angel of revelation 12,why can't it be satan?Any conclusive evidence rather than false assumptions that contradict rest of scriptures?

      How do you define justice of tormenting sin in eternal hell fire after directly creating it?

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      You said ezekiel28,speaks of cherub,why can't this be lucifer?Any conclusive evidence ,rather than assumptions that contradict rest of the scriptures?

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      You said this-if we look at Isaiah 14:12 it appears this one (the king of Babylon - his 'spirit' within) fell from the heavens, because it tells us he was cast down to the 'earth'. If we take this literally, this would point to him being a fallen angel.

      So isn't the 'spirit within' this king of babylon, the fallen angel which michael and his angels defeated & threw down from heaven in revelations 12?

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Absolutely, Vineeth. So, please slow down and read this hub again, okay?

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      So are you saying lucifer in isiah is not the cherub of Ezekiel28?

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Vineeth, you asked if Satan, the cherub in Isaiah 14 (Lucifer) and the cherub in Ezekiel 28 (the king of Tyre) couldn't all be the same being. Well, 'Lucifer' the king of Babylon, and the king of Tyre battle against each other in Ezekiel 29. I never said "both isiah & ezekiel 28 is about Lucifer the chrub". Don't you believe that just as angels are separate from God that Satan's angels are separate from Satan? Why is that so hard for you? Oh yeah...indoctrination.

      Likewise, there are three beasts shown in Revelation: The Dragon (Satan) who comes up out of the sea (Rev 12:3; 13:1); the Antichrist, who is the angel of the bottomless pit named Abaddon/Apollyon, aka the end-time king of Babylon (Isa 14 - Lucifer; Rev 9:11; 11:7; 17:8); and the False Prophet who comes up from the earth (Rev 13:11). They are clearly separated in Rev 16:13 "And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast [Antichrist] and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs..."

      Though you commented on my latest hub "God Created Satan - Did God Create Evil?", I don't know that you read it, let alone comprehended it. If Satan exercises God's wrath, why would he not be predestined for hell, to exercise God's wrath on the unjust?

      If you believe Satan embodied the created serpent in the Garden and yet you also believe he embodied the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre, why is it you ask how the cherub in Ezek 28 could have been in the garden? No, that specific human king was not in the garden, so put 2 and 2 together.

      Speaking of Rabbi's, I have only One and He is the Spirit of Christ (John 1:38; 16:13).

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      You yourself said both isiah & ezekiel 28 is about Lucifer the cherub.How can King of tyre be in Eden,can you prove it,by scriptures?No you never will.

      But we know who was in the garden of eden-It was satan,so we understand clearly that satan/lucifer/heylel are the same person -the ancient cherub who sinned by his pride.If you find this age old christian doctrine unsound,then you may ask an orthodox Jewish Rabbi,who will give you the same answer.

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      You exactly said the point,when you said that lucifer in Isiah is not found in the garden as the "cherub" in ezekiel 28.But we see satan in Garden of Eden in Genesis.Couldn't all 3 be the same,which is the only logical conclusion when whole of the scriptures are taken into account.You need to see the bigger picture,which is God judging satan to eternal hell fire in revelation 20:10.If satan was created with sin as you claim,then what is the point/justification in God casting him to eternal hell?It will also say that God created sin to tempt mankind,if we base ourself on your claim.That will make God unjust.So if you can address these bigger "issues" with sound reasoning then only you can prove yourself.God bless you.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Vineeth, Isaiah 14:12 is speaking of Lucifer, the king of Babylon. Ezekiel 28:14 is speaking of the king of Tyre. These kings battle against each other in Ezekiel 29.

      Yes, angels fell from heaven with the Dragon (Satan) and they do take on human form. Which of the two cherubim is Satan? - Lucifer in Isaiah 14 who was not said to be in the garden of God or the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 who was said to have been in the garden of God? If you claim it was the king of Tyre, then Lucifer is not the Devil; if you claim it was Lucifer, he is not said to have been in the garden of God at all. Did God place cherubim in the Garden when Adam and Eve were case out? Yes. Were they called Satan? no.

      The war in heaven does not mention an Archangel or cherub leading the war in heaven against Michael and his angels at all.

      My latest hub is called "God Created Satan - Did God Create Evil?" You might be surprised that God actually created Satan, as the Bible clearly states, as "a murderer from the beginning" for God's divine purpose.

      I'm not sure you even read the entirety of this study because your argument has been answered by the scriptures. If you want to hold to traditional doctrine, let it be a witness to many of the stronghold indoctrination puts on people, so that even though they MAY read the Bible, it to no effect.

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      Ezekiel 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

      Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

      These verses make it clear that satanic spirit in the king of tyre was created as an angel cherub,and he was perfect in his ways,until sin was found in him and he was thrown down from heaven as Isiah 4:12 says.

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      Vineeth 5 years ago

      In Ezekiel 28,God condemns the satanic spirit in king of tyre.Satan aka Heylel aka Lucifer is a spirit.All angels are spirit beings,who can transform into any appearance.His origins are depicted in Ezekiel 28.It's not about King of Tyre,but the satanic spirit that possessed him.Scriptures also say angels mated with human women before Noah's flood and perhaps after that in genesis 6:4.The childeren born to these matings where the source of ancient mythologies like hindu,greek etc along with the flood at Noah's time(Ma-nu & saptarshi-which means great noah and seven saints & how they were saved from a great flood on a ship/boat is a part of hindu mythology.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      EmbracingTheTruth, I say 'Praise God!'. I did this study, a pretty thorough one....and after seeing the results, I was WILLING to shed my indoctrination and accept what the Word of God taught. This was something definitely worth studying and writing about. Now, whenever I hear or read that traditional 'doctrine' coming so fluently out of those indoctrinated by the traditional teachings of men (that Lucifer is the Devil), I am burdened ~ simply hoping they will actually STUDY this subject for themselves and 'EmbraceTheTruth'. God bless you. I so appreciate your comments.

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      Helena 5 years ago

      You have an excellent way of explaining things. I too was always taught that satan and Lucifer were the same and never thought to question it until now. It's definitely something I'll have to study on. Thank you for the read.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      I appreciate your comment, Anonymous. If we look at Isaiah 14:12 it appears this one (the king of Babylon - his 'spirit' within) fell from the heavens, because it tells us he was cast down to the 'earth'. If we take this literally, this would point to him being a fallen angel:

      "How you have fallen from HEAVEN,

      O morning star, son of the dawn!

      You have been cast down to the EARTH,"

      People generally believe that fallen angels are demons, but they are not. Enoch declares demons are the spirits of the dead Nephilim (the giants whose bodies were destroyed in the great deluge).

      Blessings to you.

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      Anonymous 5 years ago

      Just one of versions, quite informative though. But nobody can know the truth. After all I am partly agree with author. To my mind, Lucifer was just the Babylon king, not an angel or demon.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      brian,

      James 2:19 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

      Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

      The LORD has told me to say this to you: May God judge the spirit that binds you and save the soul He gave you. I ask this in Jesus’ most Holy Name ~ Amen.

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      brian 5 years ago

      You people all need to read the bible some more.

      you shouldn't take or make any images.

      truth is one of the keys, especially in reading.

      Did the almighty creator of this universe write these words in this book or did men? men in council? church officials?

      the religions started out from a form of zoroastrianism, from the north of mesopotamia, then mesopotamia. then spread out east and west and north and south,

      then there was an ahriman from ur.

      abram, abraham, from ur. etc, etc down the line of the kings list writen throughout the book.

      VHVH,YHVH,IHVH, however you spell it its also pictographs of a so called holy name from which you are to derive the name of "GOD", yet not speak it.

      what above so below... H= air above, H... earth below

      /\or V, or Y (rod with fire), or I( arrons rod)= Fire

      V=water, cup filled with water, its why wwww water www still looks like waves of water.

      the Ur or err, error is that you all are picturing a figure of a god, angles, demons, devils.

      the god exist only in the words of this book of clever writings, grammar, expression.

      The Sword of moses is the word, i.e. the alaph-beit(in hebrew), alphabet (in english), Alpha-omega (of the greek alpha-beta).

      -an education, the people were educated,

      people its a book of education, numbers are assigned to letters in hebrew, greek, and even english.

      gematria.

      Angles and diamonds form words if you tabletise the different alphabets,- the angles and daemons.

      theres also triangles, squares, circles, swirls, arches/angles, etc.

      the math forms words in the gematria.

      theres division, multiplication, addition, subtraction.

      theres chemistry, or old alchemy.

      are you afraid of words?

      lololololol.

      dumb fuckin sheep, the churchs thankyou for you money you worked hard for, the goverments also.

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      Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi searchinsany! Thank you so much ~ now you can see why I supported your hub as well. There's no way, when studying the scriptures thoroughly, we can come to the conclusion that Lucifer is Satan. People tend to see God and Satan as the forces of good and evil, but should not forget God has angels and Satan has angels. I found this study fascinating and I choose to believe the Word over the traditional doctrine of man. God bless you!!!

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      Alexander Gibb 5 years ago from UK

      This is an excellent Hub, well researched and beautifully presented.

      Thank you for your comments on my Hub on this subject.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Thank you, kenneth avery! I so appreciate the compliment and glad this was worth your time to read!! I surely found this study quite revealing!! God bless you!

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      Kenneth Avery 6 years ago from Hamilton, Alabama

      GREAT read! Wonderful,in-depth food for thought. Keep up the great work.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Praise God! God certainly uses Dr. Charles Stanley for His glory, as He does all who are willing to open their mouths and share the love of Christ as prompted by His Holy Spirit. I can say this ~ what is of God bears fruit (and that would specifically align with Galatians 5:22). For the work(s) of the Spirit we shall receive a reward ~ and Dr. Stanley will be highly rewarded. I love him dearly. Keep on, and thank you for sharing your testimony, Pimpernel s!!

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      Pimpernel s 6 years ago

      Thank you.....Aaahh money, yes i've heard Dr Stanley mention 10% before, very clever and i've seen pictures of he's ministry.

      Well mammon is the most powerfull of them all now days.

      I'm from Essex in England so i only get him on Premier christian radio BUT he has saved many lifes around my way with he's 'In Touch' half hour and most of all MY TESTIMONY......read in that what you will, God spoke to me through him when i was about ready to fall and pulled me back from 15 years of playing with the Devil, now i listen to him 30 minuets an evening, i'm not a church goer but love thoes that do.

      God bless you JD....

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Pimpernel s, You're a great reader and commenter! I appreciate you! Tithing is a 'payment', namely 10% and it was an Old Testament ordinance for those who raised livestock or grew crops. The tithe was given to the Levite priests. Because Jesus' father Joseph and He were carpenters, even they did not 'tithe'. A tithe is a type of 'first fruit' and Jesus is the 'First Fruit', the payment for our salvation. So much more in that hub. The Bible is living because the Word of God lives. I thank God He loved us so much to give us His Word in Spirit, flesh, written in the Bible and our hearts. God bless you!

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      Pimpernel s 6 years ago

      Amen to that......

      I will read both parts of that hub in the next few days.

      I'm not partiqularly good at reading and tend to skip across as you have noticed before, i have'nt even read the bible right through nore do i understand what you mean by tithing [Dr Stanley]

      My tallents are with the feel of everything, i knew about the bible as soon as i touched it.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Well, as much as I love Dr. Stanley, he too teaches things such as tithing (as do the majority of pastors that rely on tithing for mega incomes), based on my study results found in my hub "Tithing, Giving and Alms". I, in my studies, have indeed researched and found that some of the Bible has been altered ~ that may shock you, as it did me, but it was also refreshing to be able to stay true to the unaltered Word, clearing up the confusion. Alterations stick out like a sore thumb and many of them have been exposed. Only God can show us these things, as we ask Him and rely on His Spirit to teach us. To see what I'm talking about, may I invite you to read my hub, "Should You Believe in the Trinity? Part 1 of 2". Read part 2 if you still want to see more. All I can do is reveal what's been revealed to me and trust God for the confirmation in each person's own spiritual walk.

      May God continue to bless and keep you ~ JD.

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      The Joker [Pimpernel] 6 years ago

      Yes your right about the bible, us christians must take it word for word, i try to but know people and think some of it is missing or alterd, bad of me to say i know but then i also know [some] of the Devils ways and he would love to twist it if he could and he's had long enough.

      I'm gona stop there, i dont even want to think about it and my christian mentor Dr Charles Stanley says much the same as you that we must belive every word so i try, my personality works on what feels right and the Lord guides that for me.

      God bless you JD...

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi, The Joker ~ I appreciate your kind words. I agree, that there are many books out there on people's interpretations of the Bible. While I don't see the seven-headed beast equaling the 'seven deadly sins' (or the Dragon/demons associated with them), this is obviously such a case of interpretation. I tend to take the Bible literally, and if the Lord gives me spiritual insight to those literal passages, that insight will then be confirmed over and over again throughout the written Word. That's my experience.

      For this reason, I study the Bible first ~ then, if I should read any extra-biblical material or listen to sermon after sermon out there, I can better discern what is truth and what is man's interpretation, which certainly could be in error. While I ponder their take on things, I can't hold it as absolute, of course.

      It's a pleasure getting to know you, The Joker! God bless!!

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      The Joker 6 years ago

      You are well read and love your subjects, i find books to be contradictory and tend to read between the lines.

      Being christian [not allways as good as i could] i must be carefull what i say about the Bible but i'm of the oppinion every book ever wrote on these subjects takes information from the Bible and interpretations of it differ through the ages.

      I will visit you on another subject JD

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hmmm, interesting take...the name of the eighth king, as far as my studies go to date is Abaddon/Apollyon...destruction.

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      The Joker 6 years ago

      These are the 7 heads of the "Dragon" .........

      Can You name the coming 8th?

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hello, The Joker ~ somehow, I don't see discussion as arguing ~ and for the sake of discussion, Satan and Leviathan are connected, possibly the same in scripture, by the definition/name of 'Dragon'. Satan, the Dragon, is never called a demon, but is also called Beelzebub.

      Lucifer (aka heylel) is a fallen angel (a cherub, to be precise). The scripture does not say that fallen angels became demons either. What is written of demons (in books such as Enoch) is that they are the disembodied spirits of the children of the Watchers (fallen angels) and human women ~ aka the Nephilim. This information can be found in my hub, "Giants After the Flood". Post-flood giants were known as the Rephaim (from Rapha - dead, shades, ghosts, departed spirits, spirits of the dead).

      Now I learned a bit more about Asmodaeus and Belphegor ~ I never knew about those names before. Thanks for the info!

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      The Joker 6 years ago

      This is like listening to children argue...........

      Major Demons and their sins:-

      Lucifer.......pride!

      Satan.........anger!

      Leviathan.....envy!

      Asmodeus......lust!

      Mammon........covetousness!

      Beelzebub.....gluttony!

      Belphegor.....sloth!

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi jacharless!! Wow ~ some very interesting insight! You might enjoy my hub called "Is Everyone Possessed?", in that it shows how the spirit realm affects the physical. 'Angels' are also defined as human beings (pastors, teachers, priests and kings) and note how the letters in Revelation were written to the 'angel' of the church of etc....Heavenly angels do not receive letters.

      Truly, humans are messengers and those who are called 'children (seed) of the devil' (John 8:44; 1 John 3:10) do the will of their father, by his 'spirit(s)'; whereas children of God do the will of their Father, by His Spirit.

      Thank you so much for your contribution and voting up!! God bless you!!

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      Charles James 6 years ago from Between New York and London

      Well said, JD!

      Satan, dragon/serpent, lucifer are not the same.

      Also, for those interested, note in the garden how Creator says to the serpent: "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between ---your offspring--- and hers.

      Also, remember Moses has a Serpent on the top of his staff. Same staff that struck the rock. It is also said that the Law was the serpent, as it poisoned the minds of man to live by sin. for with the law comes the ---knowledge--- of sin.

      lucim ferre (aka lucifer) is determined as a message or one who delivers the message.

      satan is one who opposes or veers one off course, divert, adverse to, blocks the path of.

      none of these are creatures by their metaphors, save one thing -they all suggest highly that they are of human seed, with very interesting characters -like music or strong speaking voices, etc.

      Voted up!

      James

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Not Sure, To attempt to answer your first question, I can only assume the Dragon influenced the angels in heaven the same way he influenced Adam and Eve. I have a hub called "Satan's PURPOSE", which expounds on the biblical study of what the word 'Satan' means, what his behavior is and how he is used of God for the purpose of God (believe it or not). All things that were created were 'good'. I think of Romans 8:28 "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

      The study of "the Dragon, the Serpent of Old, the Devil and Satan" (all the same entity) does not give any definition or scriptural support that he was ever an angel. His description, as I gave above (from Rev 12:7-9) does not match any of the descriptions of the various angels in heaven.

      I think the hub I mentioned will answer your question more fully. I hope to see you there. God bless you.

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      Not Sure 6 years ago

      Thanks for the reply.

      If the Dragon was not an angel then how did he/it influence those other angels in heaven and get them to rebel against God?

      Rev 12:8: "But he(the dragon) was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down(from heaven to earth)."

      Doesn't this show that the "dragon" had to have been an angel at first otherwise how else could he have been in heaven with God and the other angels? If he was not an angel in heaven then that means he must have some how gotten into heaven to be able to wage war against Michael and the "good" angels.....

      I still don't understand why God would create the dragon or create an angel who would become the dragon?

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Not sure ~ the Bible identifies Satan as the Dragon, the beast with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. The heads represent seven kingdoms; the ten horns are the leaders of those kingdoms; the crowns are seven 'kings' of those kingdoms.

      The Antichrist is prophesied in Dan 7:24 to subdue three of the ten leaders (three horns) and is an eighth king (little horn) that is of the remaining seven. The Bible never calls the Dragon an angel.

      To read about the war in heaven, go to Revelation 12:7-9. Yes, a third of the angels were thrown down with him, but that does not make the Dragon an angel. All things were created by God, including the Dragon. I hope this helps. God bless you!!

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi brother Jason!! Forgive me for not responding sooner. I've just moved and was without internet for a week!! Thank you so much for your kind comment. I found this study incredibly enlightening, and I'm glad you did, too!! God bless you abundantly as you press on in the truth!!

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      Not sure 6 years ago

      Hi.

      I am not sure where the Dragon came from? Was the Dragon an Angel? Where did he come from also? I always thought that one of God's angels rebelled against him with the other angels and not some dragon.....

      Please help me understand.

      Very interesting article btw :)

      Thanks.

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      Jason R. Manning 6 years ago from Sacramento, California

      What a terrific piece of teaching you formed here. This is fashioned to be used over and over again. I am thankful you wrote this. God Bless.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      It's okay to ask God questions, which is different than questioning God (a bit of a twist) :-) I'm so glad you found some answers to your question, for God's Word has answers ~ it's so fascinating! I also have a hub that has to do with trials and testing called "Trials and Temptations" you might like to read, too! https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Trials-Te...

      As far as the forces of good and evil in the spirit and physical realms, you might enjoy my hub called "The Battle For Your Soul" https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Battl...

      I am always encouraged when what I write, based on bible study, is able to help someone. Currently, I have published over 100 hubs, and I would love for you to read all that interest you! Just click on my name, Judah's Daughter, right here on the comment box and you'll get to my home page :-) God bless you! I'm glad you are now 'Formerly Confused' :-)

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      Formerly Confused 6 years ago

      Thanks very much for that response. I would just like to say that i was not trying to question God or anything, i was just curious. Excellent answer and after reading your "Satan's purpose" Hub i understand a lot more.Please keep writing these types of Hubs because as humans we all have questions and it is great when someone like you can provide such detailed answers. Thanks again :)

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Confused ~ first of all, may I minister to your name: Let's look at Psalm 98:9, which states, “He will judge the world”. The word ‘judge’ is ‘shaphat’ (avenge). The word ‘world’ is ‘tevel’ (confusion). He cares about your confusion, and desires to give you the answers you seek.

      I have a hub called "Satan's Purpose" I think will shed some light on your question: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Satans-PU...

      I believe there are two MAIN reasons God created the Adversary and his troops and allows them to exist on the earth:

      1) To give mankind a CHOICE, for Love does not insist on its own way (1 Cor 13:5) and God is Love.

      2) To TEST and TRY us, either building our faith in the Lord or destroying it, depending on our choices.

      A couple of passages come to mind:

      Rom 6:16 "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?"

      1 Pet 1:7 "That the TRIAL of your FAITH [allowed by God], being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it [the gold, representing faith] be tried with fire [by the Adversary], might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ."

      I pray this ministers to your heart. God bless you.

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      Confused 6 years ago

      HI. Very interesting read and very informative. My question is did God create The Dragon (Satan) and 'Lucifer' (the Antichrist). And if he did then why? Surely it would be silly for him to make these creatures if he knew they would cause so many problems for him and for mankind.

      Thank you very much for your article :)

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Constantine, it's good you're not very 'religious', in the sense of the word and what it means. It's also good that you research whatever you 'hear' as 'fact', when indeed it may not align with the source claimed to reveal such a doctrine. I was always taught that heylel (Lucifer) was indeed the devil (Satan) himself and set out to prove he was by using the Bible alone. Well, I couldn't come to that conclusion after my study, and no one has been able to biblically refute these results since. I even posted a forum to see if anyone could and it fizzled pretty fast. I'm glad you found this informative and interesting. Thank you so much.

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      Constantine 6 years ago

      I'm not very religious but I was always curious of the full story of the War in Heaven and the fall of Satan as well as curious as to the different names and if they where an entity being one and the same, just having a name change every now and again mixed in with various other religious views on similar entities (as they say most of the time in movies). But thank you for making the distinction between who's who and especially all the verse research from the bible. It was certainly very informative and interesting.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Oh, come on, thad ~ I've never read a Hal Lindsey book ~ but, maybe I should? Do you have any scripture to refute what's revealed here? Can you prove heylel IS Satan, the devil? Do share!

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      thad  6 years ago

      I've heard some weird stuff but come on! What about scripture! You've read to many hal lindsey books!

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      Tricia Mason 6 years ago from The English Midlands

      Certainly it is a fascinating topic.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Trish! I'm glad you came by to read. Now you can see why I say your studies are revealing much truth. The great thing about having an inquiring mind and studying like you do, I believe you will find that absolute truth one day and with that, touch many lives that are now walking in your shoes. :-)

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      Tricia Mason 6 years ago from The English Midlands

      Hi Judah's Daughter :)

      I should have read this before, but I didn't want it to influence my hub.

      It is really interesting. I like all of the synthesis. It is very thought-provoking!

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Disappearinghead, Don't even get me started on Catholicism. They are responsible for the corruption of the Textus Receptus (Latin), inserting the name of Lucifer (Is 14:12) and birthing the doctrine of the 'trinity' (Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7) - insertions! Prior to 400 years ago, no one believed in either. They also removed the second commandment of the 10 about graven images and worship of idols (that they teach in catechism), as they practice this daily. I could go on and on. You're welcome to read my hub "ROCK OF OFFENSE" for more on this truth.

      If what's in the Book of Enoch supports what is in the Bible, I respect it. If it has things in it that are not revealed in our Bible, I only ponder it. It was in the scriptures 300 years before Christ, at the time of Christ and 200 years after Christ. The book of Jasher was also removed, yet it is named in our Bible: Joshua 10:15 "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day." AND 2 Samuel 1:18 "and he told them to teach the sons of Judah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the book of Jashar."

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Disappearinghead, Numbers 22:22 states, "But God was angry because he [Balaam] was going [to curse Israel], and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him."

      Satan is never called the angel of the LORD. God opposes the proud (James 4:6), but does that make Him the Adversary, Satan? Absolutely not.

      If you read all of Numbers 22 and 23 you will see that God initially told Balaam NOT to go with all the men that wanted to curse Israel. When the men pressured him, he went, but with resistance from the LORD. The LORD then gave him permission to go, but only to say what the LORD told him. Chapter 23 shows you that Balaam BLESSED Israel instead.

      Satan works though men and nations to destroy God's people, first and foremost. His angels disguise themselves as servants of light. If you think Satan and his angels are merely human, you cannot explain Eph 6:12, nor can you explain why Balaam didn't see the angel of the LORD opposing him, but the donkey sensed him and reacted (Num 22:31).

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      Disappearinghead 6 years ago from Wales, UK

      The Book of Enoch is not considered of sufficient merit to even appear in the Catholic apocrypha, and the only branch of the church that deems it of any value is the Ethiopian Orthodox. Even there, they believe it was written in the Ethiopian Ge'ez language, because thatis the only full copy remaining.

      Whatever flavour church you choose to belong to, apocryphal works are to be considered of secondary purpose and NO doctrines are to be established from them, which is what you appear to be doing above. The Book of Enoch is not inspired by God; it is a human invention.

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      Disappearinghead 6 years ago from Wales, UK

      Hi JD. You stated "The story of Lucifer being a beautiful angel that rebelled against God in heaven, was cast out with a third of the angels, then became the devil (aka Satan) does not appear to be based on the Bible.". Good this is a false doctrine that still pervades the church. However, fallen angels doctrine doesn't show up until the apocryphal Book of Enoch.

      You also state "Satan is never called an angel anywhere in the Bible" Numbers 22:22, the Angel of the Lord is sent as a satan to Balaam. Satan is simply Hebrew for adversary and applies both to angels and men such as David for example.

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hi Dantesinferno! Well, we can only determine what angels are by the Hebrew/Greek definitions, which does not include 'demons or devils'.

      In the Old Testament, the word angel is the Hebrew word malak (mal-awk'); from an unused root mean. to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):-ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

      In the New Testament, the word angel is the Greek word aggelos (ang'-el-os); to bring tidings; a messenger; esp. an "angel", by impl. a pastor:-angel, messenger.

      I believe fallen angels spread fallen 'messages', in whatever form they take. They spread a false gospel. That is their primary function. They not only masquerade as pastors, priests and teachers, but influence/even embody kings of the earth. The Antichrist will be heylel (aka Lucifer) embodied in flesh (Isa 14:16-17).

      You might find it fascintating to know what the Book of Enoch reveals regarding demons: Enoch 15:8 “And now, the giants, who are proclaimed from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers [fallen angels] is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called.” Once the flesh of the giants were destroyed in the flood, their spirits were sentenced to roam the earth. From this we get the word "Rapha" (meaning dead, shades, ghosts, departed spirits, spirits of the dead), from which comes the name of the giants after the flood, called "Rephaim". The Bible tells us a lot about them! If this fascinates you, here's a link to another of my hubs:

      https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/GIANTS-on...

      To read about the Nephilim (pre-flood), who were the fathers of the Rephaim (post-flood), I have a hub about them as well: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Origi... (I recommend reading this one first, then the other).

      To see what the Bible says about how the spiritual realm interacts/affects the physical realm, you might want to read yet another of my hubs: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Is-Everyo...

      I use the word "fascinating" because I was truly fascinated by what I learned, and really enjoyed writing about it to share it with readers like you! I pray God continue to bless you!

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      DantesInferno 6 years ago

      Thanks alot Now I know though I prefer the other story that we've all been told because I like the plot better (yea I know its false but I just like it better sounds more epic its just my opinion) and quick question I know angels have rankings sorta like the military archangels cherubs etc dom demons have the same. I was told demons and devils are not the same devils are fallen angels the angels that fell from heaven while demons are just the spawns and children of devils like imps and fiends ( i know its off topic and kinda weird but angels and demons heaven and hell is just so fascinating to me ) Again thanks for this know I know the truth

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      Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

      Hello there, DantesInferno ~ I suggest you read all the comments and replies that may help answer many of your questions; however, I will give you the bullet-point answers, based on what I believe to be the truth:

      1. Lucifer (heylel) is not Satan (the Devil); he is the Antichrist, the coming king of end-time Babylon, a fallen cherub. May I recommend my hub to you called "Lucifer: The spirit of Antichrist!": https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/LUCIFER-T...

      2. The story of Lucifer being a beautiful angel that rebelled against God in heaven, was cast out with a third of the angels, then became the devil (aka Satan) does not appear to be based on the Bible. He certainly was a cherub that fell from heaven, according to Isaiah 14:12.

      3. The Dragon (aka Satan) was obviously created by God and for God's purpose. I have a hub called "Satan's Purpose" you may be interested in reading. God would not allow him to roam the earth, if there was not a divine purpose for it. Consider Job. This does not make God the Author of sin, for it is man who gives in to rebelling against God (James 1:14); Satan is just the tempter of man to do evil and is the prosecuting attorney of all mankind before God. He is also the one who exercises God's wrath/anger (2 Sam 24:1; 1 Chron 21:1). Here is the link: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Satans-PU...

      4. Jesus said that Satan "was a murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44), so how can he be a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, if he LATER, after his fall, became a murderer? In fact, Satan is never called an angel anywhere in the Bible.

      I hope this information is helpful. I realize this is just totally different than the traditional, man-made teaching that's been around for the last 400 years...and not before that!! That, in itself, is something to pay attention to! God bless you abundantly. Thank you so much for reading and for your good questions.