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Old Testament and New Testaments Agree on the Salvation of All

Updated on February 13, 2010

You know, on Hubpages I have taken a lot of flack for endorcing the work of one Ray Smith of I hear things like "you've put your faith into a man". Or "how can one man know more than all seminary graduates"? Good points, if that were the case and if seminary graduates were actually full of the holy spirit. See, God uses the foolishness of preaching to get His word out. This means neither Ray nor any of the others I've learned from on the web could possibly convict me of any truth. That my friends, comes from God. And if God's word is shown to me through the works of one man, then I would be wrong not to share this information with others. Now, I will admit that the following was put together through studying Ray's work. I say this so that others may be blessed with his teaching and because I refuse to take credit for finding things that I only paraphrased. And what is it that Ray has written to show me these truths? Simple, he has connected scripture from the Old and New Testments that spiritually match. That is the only way to understand the bible as a whole. Again, I humbly await the context police to club me with their indoctrinated swill about, "god said this and that and you've (I) just proof texted until you had the right combinations of bible verses to show an elaborate preconceived agenda". Folks, prove that the scriptures teach eternal torment or annihilation. But be honest. And actually read what I have here and elsewhere so that I don't have to point to why your bible verses don't mean what you say they mean.

So just a little explanation:

II Pet. 1:20

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private (its own) interpretation. (If it doesn't have witness, then it can't be used as proof for anything).

God inspired the writings of both the Old and New Testaments. These are spiritual works and require a spiritual mind to understand. There were many laws, feasts and even rituals required of God's people in the OT. What explanations were given by God for these things? Well, after performing one of the many sacrifices, people were told that they would be forgiven. And Who came to fullfill those laws for all time? I know the answer. Do you? OK, what about those feasts? What was the purpose? Well, I don't know about all of the rituals and reasons, but I hope to shed some light on how some of these physical requirements are fullfilled in the NT. The most important fullfillment is yet to come. That would be the salvation of all man kind as physically represented by the major harvests.

Most of what you read below are spiritual witness to the fact that Christ will save all and contains a little about the Kingdom of God and what is the Lake of Fire Judgment.

The kingdom of heaven (the elect) is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three (#3 involves a spiritual process) measures of meal, till the whole was leavened (converted in the Lake of Fire).

1 Cor. 5:6

Know ye not that a little leaven (the elect) leavens the whole lump. (Look at top)

(The elect are those chosen in the beginning by God to reign with Christ during the millinium and bring the rest of mankind to repentence and salvation through judgment).

Matt. 13:11-16

Because it is given unto you (the elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is Not Given-Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

”1 Cor. 2:14

“But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Cor. 6:2

Or are you not aware that the saints (the elect) shall judge (set right) the world?

(Again, the saints or elect will judge the world)

Rev. 20:4

And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.

(Why doesn't everyone understand? Why only the elect?)

John 6:63

The flesh profits nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit.

John 6:66

From that time Many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him.

James 1:18

Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FirstFruits of His creatures.

Rev. 14:1 and 4

And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the mountSion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand. These are they (the elect) which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins (Bride of Christ). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the FirstFruits unto God and to the Lamb.

“My Father is the Farmer”

John 15:1 and 5

I am the true Grapevine, and My father is the Farmer. . . I am the Grapevine. You are the branches.

1 Cor. 10:11

Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

(The Old Testament is full of examples, as in the feasts below.)

FirstFruits: (the Spring Harvest) a type foreshadowing:

1 Cor. 15:20

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FirstFruit of them that sleep

The Wave Sheaf (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover) (includes Passover)

This represents Christ, the very first (wave sheaf) of the fristfruit, our Passover sacrificed for us.

The Feast of Weeks is when the firstfruits of the land are harvested. This represents the Elect who will be in the first resurrection.

James 1:18

We are the firstfruit of God

Rom. 8:23

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FirstFruits of the Spirit

Rev. 5:10

And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

(Remember what I said about the elect reigning with Christ?)

(How about the rest of God’s creatures? You know, the one’s going to Hell?)

The end of the year Feast of Ingathering (Feast of Tabernacles): (Fall harvest is always bigger than the Spring harvest, this is symbolic for all mankind being saved.)

(So, it is the Feast of Tabernacles that we are given a huge example of the lost finally being saved. So much for that hell crap.)

Ex. 23:16

And the feast of harvest, the FirstFruits of thy labours, which thou has sown in the field and the Feast of Ingathering, which is in the End of The Year, when you have gathered in thy labours out of the field.

Deut. 16:13-15

Thou shall observe the Feast of Tabernacles seven (number of perfection) days, after that you have gathered in your corn and your wine: And you shall Rejoice in Your Feast, you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the widow, that are within your gates. (Sounds like everybody’s celebrating, not just the FirstFruits)

Eph. 1:10-11

God is operating all according to the counsel of His own will (What happened to free will of man?)

Eph. 1:10

That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; in Him

Ver 23-24

Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence; thereafter the consummation (end) . . .

II Cor. 15:24

Then comes the end . . . (when all are saved)

Ex. 23:16

. . . and the feast of ingathering of the Fall Harvest, which is in the end

(So, it's in the end when all are saved.)

John 7:37-38

In the last day, that Great Day of The Feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of Living Water. (This is a prophesy for the time that all men will accept Christ’s invitation to join Him in the kingdom)

And now, I give a few more examples for the OT and NT proving scripturally that all will be saved.

Revelation 22

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree (log) of life with its twelve kinds of fruit (the elect), yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.


Jeremiah 18

God tells Jeremiah to go down to the Potter’s house and observe him work. Jeremiah sees the potter destroy a marred work in his hand and refashion it into something useful. (Who’s the potter? God. Who’s the clay? Us.) Proof that destruction is only temporary.

Job 23:10

But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

Zec 13:9

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

(So, here we learn that the third part as shown with the example of the fall harvest, are refined with what?? With fire.)

Mal 3:3 And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

So, does anybody out there want to admit that the bible proves it's authenticity by the mere fact that it teaches what almost nobody alive can see? The salvation of all is laced throughout the bible. It just takes spiritual eyes to see this. Why does indoctrination of the worldly synagogues have so much control over mankind? Because it is all part of God's grand scheme. It's perfect.



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    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      7 years ago

      Exactly kewelboyz. Thanx for reading.

    • kewelboyz profile image


      7 years ago from Lakeland, Florida

      I guess Christ is only the Savior of them that believes and not the savior of the world but 1Tim.4:10,11.says He is the savior of the world and Paul commands us to teach that he is the savior of the world.So to say that he is unable to save the world is to call the savior of the world unable to save the world, see how foolish that sounds, you say in one breath that he is the savior of the world then in the next breath you say he is the savior of only them that believe what contradictions.He cannot be the savior of the world and not save the world.

    • profile image


      7 years ago

      HELL No says:

      Christ used Gehenna as a example of judgment and in the Sermon on the Mount, He is speaking only to the elect. So we can go through this judgment during our lives. You must be insane to think this is talking about some place called hell. By the way, how many body parts have you hacked off so far. I see your eyes are still there. What are you waiting for. Get to it.

      Wow! EXCELLENT point! These eternal hellers like to take everything in the NT literally, but only if it suits them!

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      "Whosoever will come after Me, let him DENY himself, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME" (Mark 8:34). This is not an "option" to salvation; this is an absolute REQUIREMENT. I am not trying to paint a picture of doom and gloom, but the reality of living as Jesus Christ demands is not a walk in the park or a stroll through a rose garden. You can pursue a life obsessed with beauty, fame, vanity, materialism, and worldliness, but don’t think you can also coordinate all that with a life of following Jesus Christ."For even hereunto were ye called; because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that ye should follow [By suffering with Him—‘Yea, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus SHALL SUFFER persecution’ II Tim. 3:12] His steps" (I Pet. 2:21). "He that says he abides in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He [Jesus] walked" (I John 2:6)."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He IS, SO ARE WE in the world" (I John 4:17). If you do not "suffer persecution," then you clearly are not "living godly in Christ Jesus.""To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES; To him that OVERCOMES" (Rev. 2:7; 2:11; 2:17; 2:26; 3:5; 3:12; 3:21). "Overcomes" WHAT? Overcomes the sins of the FLESH, the sins of the CHURCH, and the sins of the whole WORLD. We must overcome just "AS" Jesus overcame: "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even AS I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21). Jesus Christ overcame His own FLESH (Heb. 4:15), and Jesus overcame the sins of the whole WORLD:"These things I have spoke unto you, that in Me [Jesus] ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer: I have OVERCOME THE WORLD" (John 16:33). We must all overcome as Jesus overcame, and we must all live as Jesus lived, and anything less is a shame and heresy.And just how long must we be put up with all this persecution and trials of the cross? Again, let Jesus answer: "And ye [Gk: ‘all of you’] shall be hated of all men for My Name’s sake [Does that include ALL Believers? ‘YEA, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus, SHALL suffer persecution’]: but he that endures [Gk: "remain, under go, bear trials, have fortitude, persevere, suffer’] TO THE END shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22). Are we to foolishly conclude that "he that endures NOT to the end," and "he that does NOT overcome," and "he that does NOT suffer persecution," and "he that does NOT take up his cross," and "he that is NOT baptized into Christ’s death," and "he that does NOT live godly and righteously," shall ALSO be saved just as long as he speaks a twenty-second sinner’s prayer? Nonsense. There are HUNDREDS of Scriptures which tell us the many, many things that God will do in and through us before He actually "SAVES us."

    • phillip78 profile image


      9 years ago

      I know i'm preaching to the choir but here are a few questions for the masses that don't understand.

      "If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord?"

      How can people say burning someone alive forever is "just" or "fair" for everyone who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ? Even we humans fit the punishment to the crime. According to Christians, people are destined to be burned in Hell whether we are bad or not. Just being born into this world is grounds for being endlessly tortured. They say the punishment is the same regardless of the number of sins committed or how bad they were. This is not justice--this is insanity!"

      If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.

      If Hell is real and it is a place of eternally being separated from God, why does David say in the King James Bible, "Though I make my bed in Hell (Sheol) lo, Thou art there? (Again please note, most Christian Bibles NO LONGER have the word "Hell" in the Old Testament. The KJV written over 350 years ago is an exception. The Jews do NOT put the word "Hell" in their English translations of the Hebrew Scriptures, that is, the Old Testament and the leading English Christian Bibles have removed it because it is NOT in the originals. Some Christian scholars now acknowledge it should never have been placed there in the first place.)

      If Hell was real and the grave settled the matter forever, why did the early Christians offer up prayers for the dead?

      If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?

      If Hell is a real place of merciless endless torture, since God knows the beginning from the end, why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve and end the long terrible chain of misery that passed to their offspring before it began? After all, the Scriptures say that all died BECAUSE of Adam. (Rom. 5:18)

      If Hell is real, why are there many English Bible translations which do NOT contain the word Hell at all nor do they contain the concept of "everlasting torments"?

      If there is a Hell and salvation is the deliverance from it, why does the word appear only a dozen times or so in most leading selling Bibles like the NIV, NASB, NRSV, NKJV, etc. as compared to the word Heaven which appears hundreds of times?

      If Hades is Hell and there is no escape from it, why is it emptied and cast into the Lake of Fire along with death. (Rev. 20:14)

      If the Lake of Fire is actually a place of everlasting burnings, why isn't it defined as such? The Bible calls it the "second death," that is, the death of the first death. One would think that the death of death would be LIFE, which is a good thing! (Rev. 20:14) Even in mathematics two negatives make a positive.

      If all things were made for GOD'S pleasure, is it conceivable that God would derive pleasure from seeing those He created endlessly tortured?

      If there is a Hell and according to most denominations of Christianity the majority of mankind will go there, could you really enjoy heaven knowing your mother or father or children or best friend are suffering everlasting tortures the likes of which would make the Holocaust seem like a picnic? If the Rich Man and Lazarus story (Luke chapter 16) is real and NOT a parable, then we will be able to converse with our loves ones who did not make it into heaven. Would heaven really be a place of joy if this were true?

      If Hell is real and the greatest part of mankind eventually goes there, wouldn't Jesus be considered a great failure considering the fact He was sent to save the whole world? And if He failed so miserably this time to accomplish the will of the Father, can one really trust that He won't fail again? (1 Tim. 2:3,4 KJV; Heb. 10:9) We who believe that Jesus will save the world obviously do NOT believe He failed…He will save all of us.

      If Hell is real and most of mankind will fall into this fiery pit, if there is not escape out of it, would this not violate the Scripture that says He raises ALL who fall? (Psalm 145:14)

      I could go on more. But i'll stop for now. The doctrine of hell fire torment is one of the biggest HOAX of all time.God IS love. It is unconditional. If most of humanity go there, wouldn't this make God's love conditional, rather unconditional? Most people are just to carnal minded to understand the deeper things God has planed for us.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      By all means, cast all the pearls you wish. It's my hub and I accept the pearls of God's truths. Thanks for reading.

    • profile image


      9 years ago

      I was once a bleiever in hell fire torment. But after reading Ray's site, it has turned my view of hell, LOF, tithing completly upside down. Those who think with the carnal mind will never understand or receive. Before i even read Ray's site, I was wondering about the truthfulness of the doctrine on hell. Well my suspision was right on. Thank God and God alone for giving me understanding. I could say a few words, here on this topic, to add to it as well, but chances are i'm casting pearls b4 swine. Why bother.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      I see now that Carrie has been asked to not post anymore.

      There is no need to respond to my postings.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, again I do not doubt that you have a zest for Christ but as Hell No pointed out.  You twist scripture to suit your preconceived doctrines.  You deny the TRUTH and reality that Chrstianity adopted pagan myths to convert the peoples of the times.  You attempt to justify the belief in Hell by using Isaiah 66:24, “where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”

      Do you understand that the Word Jesus spoke are spirit?  Do you understand that the flesh profits nothing?  Do you understand that if Jesus' words are spirit then they CANNOT be applied to every physical thing you want or your doctrines want to apply them to.

      Spirit means spirit spirit does not mean physical/flesh.  You confuse yourself over something that is so simple to understand.  Christ very frequently used symbolism to reveal a spiritual truth.  There is NO Hell where "...THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.”  Gehenna was a trash dump that was constantly kept lit to burn trash and everything rotted.  It was a REAL place.  It was a TRASH DUMP in its day and is still there today only now it is a beautiful park.

      Carrie, do you understand what exactly a parable is?  I'm not trying to insult you.  I have read your hubs several times in fact, I don't think your stupid.  I do however, think that you have been raised in a religion which has tainted your views.  WE ALL have been where you are now.  Being presented with accurate harmonious scriptural truths and arguing with the person to hold fast to our physical rituals. 

      Do you know why Christ spoke in parables? BECAUSE FOR HIS ELECT the truths were made know but for everyone else, they were NOT to know otherwise they would be saved!  Christ's own words Carrie was that He was not here to save everyone AT THAT TIME BUT IN THEIR ORDER.  First His Elect/First Fruits, THEN everyone else.  Christ used symbolism and figurative speaking to convey spiritual truths.  It's really quite brilliant to hide in plain sight such grand information.  There is a reason why the so called wise will not understand.  They can't beleive God's word could be so simple as to be right in front of them.  That's why a child can know God's truths so easily.

      Do you understand that Christ used physical rituals as examples of spiritual counterparts?  The parable about the Harvest is a physical example of how God & Christ will save EVERYONE.  At the end of the harvest, After the First Fruit has been gathered, EVERYONE ELSE is invited.  Do you not understand that Christ is using this physical ritual which everyone understood to explain how God will save and judge EVERYONE.

      Do you really think that God says to love our enemies and God will then torture our enemies and loved ones?  Do you really think God hates us that much?  God is LOVE.  Mankind is full of hate.  The doctrine of hell is not of God but of the devil. 

      You refuse to believe Christs own words and God's words in order to hold on to a few scriptures that you think mean something that they don't.  You don't pay attention to the words.  You miss so much when you only do a superficial study of the scriptures.

      I can assure you, IF and when the day comes that you are given God's ears and eyes, you will find it so hard to beleive that you ever believed in such horrible doctrines.  You will be so ashamed of yourself.  You will realize that our Father really does love each and every one of us.  Not just a few here and there.  You will realize that God is and has always been in total control of everything.  Everything is going perfectly according to His plan.  I bet you don't even realize that the entire bible is one giant parable, do you?  The bible is one giant spiritual truth from Christ to His Elect and to His Elect only.  No one else will be able to understand.  Oh sure they will think they do but as you have shown, whatever religion you wish to call it, you all do the same thing.  You make God weak, you make God into a sadistic torturer capable of the most vile behavior.  You make Jesus a failure at what he was created to do before the foundation of the world.  None of you have true faith in God.

      Do you even realize that in (Matt. 4:1) "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil" 

      Jesus was LED by the Spirit to be tempted by the Devil.  God is the Spirit!  It was necessary for Jesus to be tempted by the devil.  You act as if the devil can come and go as he pleases. 

      We are told plainly "In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

      "For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).

      This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?

      "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savour; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).

      STOP Ignoring the Scriptures to promote false doctrines.  You do not have any scriptures that state that God's will cannot and will not be done.  God WILL have ALL men to be saved.  Where do you see a God's Will won't be done?  God's Will can't be done.  God doesn't want to save anyone.  WHERE?  You don't have 1 scripture that contradicts this truth.  You have a false belief that has been cultivated over the years so that it has fooled so many people, yes but Scripture NO.

      "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN… [but doesn’t that mean believers exclusively? No…] …of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

      Do you even understand the above scripture?  It means Christ is the Savior of ALL men but especially of those who believe (His Elect) It's not exclusive. 

      Christ again tells us when speaking to the pharisees of His day (they are the same today as they were yesterday in Christs day.

      "Ye [Gk: ‘all’ of you] are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not [does not stand] in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not" (John 8:44-45).

      Like Christ says, you don't beleive Him  because He tells us the truth.  You can't beleive Him because all your doctrines would amount to nothing.  You would realize how wrong you have been.  How you have shown hate towards your fellow man by condemning him to a false hell for a made up eternity.  you would see how foolish you have been and it would embarrass you.

      Your problem is that you have used too many translations of previous translations without checking the Hebrew manuscripts first.  Most religions don't care what the original manuscripts state.  They just love their false doctrines

    • profile image

      Lucy Pher 

      9 years ago

      you've been wasting your time quoting Man´s gratest and biggest bluff. Or was the Bible written by God? Please! Give me a break!He even doesn't have a name! haha!!!

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Regarding 1 Peter 1:7, it appears you are stating that a person will be tried by fire in order to obtain salvation? 

      Translated correctly, this is better understood by the proper typing of the words and punctuation:

      "That the trial of your faith (much more precious than gold which is tried by the fire) may be found unto praise and glory and honour at the appearing of Jesus Christ." (DRB)

      Regarding 1 Cor 3:13-15, the following scriptures help clarify its meaning: Zechariah 3:2; Amos 4:11; and Jude 23.

      The interpretation is as follows: As a builder whose building (works), not the foundation (his salvation), is consumed by fire, escapes (is snatched out), but with the loss of his work (loss of his reward-prize).

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      I've read enough of your material. I see no difference between you and what the churches of Babylon teach. You just bring a different flavor. You still deny the truths of the scriptures presented in my hubs. You want to be on the front lines? Win souls for jesus as they say? Go ahead. I'll stay right here and expose evil contradictions.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Hey, JL brought up the subject of geenna, not me. I have an entire hub called, "Is There Really a HELL" that thoroughly covers the subject. And as far as reading my hubs, I've read yours; I challenge you to read mine! Aren't we both on the front lines? Let's "fight" fair, shall we?

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      I guarantee we don't agree on much of anything. Besides, I don't want to read your silly hubs. I'd rather learn something.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Carrie, you need to put your posts concerning hell and hell fire (Gehenna fire) on my hell hub where it belongs. Christ used Gehenna as a example of judgment and in the Sermon on the Mount, He is speaking only to the elect. So we can go through this judgment during our lives. You must be insane to think this is talking about some place called hell. By the way, how many body parts have you hacked off so far. I see your eyes are still there. What are you waiting for. Get to it.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      If you read my hub, "Who are God's Elect?" you will see that I agree that the Gentiles are grafted into the elect of God. Jesus is also called the Elect of God and we who are in Christ are part of this elect.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Isaiah 26:10-There is nothing here to disagree with. Evil will remain until the judgments are complete. There is grace in judgment but grace by itself is not judgment. You're just confused because that verse about evil men follows the assertion that the world will learn righteousness. You need not be. It nowhere says, "except those who choose not to believe... . . .they will go to the hell of Christiandom". There's no contradiction.

      Isaiah 42:16-speaking to the elect. 17 those who will be judged.

      45:24-being put to shame is part of judgment 25 all the descendants of Israel? Are you thinking physical Israel again? Are you a physical descendant of Israel, Carrie? This is speaking of the kingdom age when the elect of Christ are called descendants of Israel or spiritual Jews.

      Philippians 2:12-??? Not sure what you think but it appears that you free willers have neglected 2:13

      John 2:3 If we know Him (we all will eventually) we will keep his precepts. 2:4 is a perfect example of you and the rest of the church. Here you are called a liar.

      John 4:15 and 16-Again, I back up all of these. One must believe the truths to have God remain in them. It will happen. You and your hell mongering christians should look at verse 17 and 18. The hell teaching is contrary to love.

      Would you just stop with your insistence that we skip all the scriptures that don't suit us? They all suit us. There is no contradiction. It is you that believes the scriptures contradict.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Regarding the fire (geenna), again you are not accounting for this fire being utilized with the word "hell", which is reserved for Satan, his angels and those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 10-14).  Here are the scripture references for any who will read them: Matthew 5:22, 29 ; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 23: 15, 33; Mark 9:23, 45, 47 ; and Luke 12:5.

      We see an account of Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah (renamed by king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon as Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo) cast into a firey furnace heated seven times more than it was usually heated (causing even those who went to throw them into this furnace to be slain by the heat of it), DELIVERED from it by an angel of God!  Likewise, though Christians be tried by this "fire" as hot as that of geenna, we will not be harmed by it! (Daniel 3:19-26)

      This does not constitute a doctrine that there is no HELL which is the hell of fire (geenna)!  Again, look at the scriptures that include the word HELL with this word fire (geenna).  Mark 9:49 describes it based on Isaiah 66:24, “where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.” and in Revelation 14:11 where "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      This is a lengthy message to challenge both of you and yours:

      But how can a false prophet even speak God’s holy words?  Well, let’s first look at the Devil tempting Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.  He used God’s very own words to tempt them.  In Genesis 3:1, the “serpent” said to Eve, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from ANY TREE of the garden?”   Eve, speaking back the exact word of God says, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of THE TREE which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest you die.”   The serpent then tells her, “You surely shall not die!” (LIE).

      Look at Jesus’ experience with the Devil when He was tempted by the Devil in the desert for 40 days.   In Luke 4:9-11, verse 10 quotes Satan as saying, “for it is written, ‘HE WILL GIVE HIS ANGELS CHARGE CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU, and ‘ON THEIR HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, LEST YOU STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”.  Indeed, Satan was quoting the prophesy written in the Old Testament in Psalm 91:11 accurately!  His motive, though, was to tempt Jesus to throw himself down off the top of the very high mountain on which he stood!  Jesus answered him in verse 12 with scripture: “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST’”.  We see this answer in Psalm 91:12.  Did you notice that Satan only quoted ONE VERSE in Psalms and neglected the VERY NEXT VERSE in Psalms?

      Not only have you practiced such things with Isaiah 26:9 (neglecting verse 10), but also in the following verses which your "church" relies on:

      Isaiah 42:16 (you neglect verse 17; Isaiah 45:22-23 (you neglect verses 24 and 25; Philippians 2:10-11 (you neglect verse 12; 1 John 2:2 (you neglect verse 3; and 1 John 4:14 (you neglect verse 15).

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago


    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Contrary to popular belief, I have not accused anyone of not Loving God.  What I have stated is that while you may have made a choice to love God, you have not made that choice independent of what God has already willed.  Your choice was NOT free from God's will.  You don't even understand what free means.  You, as the scriptures clearly tell us, think yourself God (by thinking you can do anything independent of God's will)

      Interestingly, No body states: "No Scripture comes back void" while I understand the meaning behind the quote, that is simply not what the Scripture state.  Correctly the Scripture state in Isaiah 55:11:  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

      According to both Carrie and No Body, God's word doesn’t have the strength to do anything unless it's convenient for Carrie and No Body.  One minute God's word can do this or that, the next is can only do this or that but always in a limited context.

      When we have the mind of Christ in us (Christ spirit is in us) then we can understand properly what it is that Christ is saying to us (His Elect) now in this age as He spoke to His disciples (the first fruit of the Elect) during His Sermon on the Mount in His own age... 

      Matt. 5:1 - "...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1); "And He opened His mouth, and taught THEM [His disciples]" (Ver. 2); "Blessed are YE [all you disciples]..." (Ver. 11).

      Any question as to whom Jesus addressed His "Sermon on the Mount?"  He was speaking specifically to and ONLY to His disciples (first fruits of the Elect).  His disciples are members of the Elect.  Since we know that the Lord is the same today as he is yesterday and that God changes not.  We have the promise that Christ’s message is still speaking ONLY to His Elect as they have emerged thru the ages from Christ;s time to our current time, now and possibly the future ages.

      The instructions contained in Christ’s sermon are decidedly not written for the "Many [who] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, Thy name done many wonderful works?... I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me..." (Matt. 7:22-23).

      Yet, we have millions (the many) of professing christians claiming that Jesus’s message is for them.  They, like Carrie and No Body claim that they have the spirit of God in them because they perform fleshly physical rituals such as tongue speaking, circumcision, water baptism and many other fleshly rituals while totally disregarding Scripture which states that "It is the spirit that quickens [gives life and understanding]: the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life" (John 6:63).

      As one approaches the Scriptures, one should be conscious that the traditions of the church make it difficult, if not impossible, to read the Word of God correctly.  Since a majority of believers are so entrenched in custom, they have difficulties in hearing God accurately. To them, this is an isolated Scripture only applicable to a time in which they see fit to apply it to.  It is not all encompassing according to them.  According to them, each Scripture has its own meaning as it’s applied to a specific instance.  Again, they apply Scripture only as it suits them.

      2 Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

      We are told that no Scripture is of its own private interpretation.  This means that each Scripture does not say something that another Scripture does not back-up, or expound on.  God provides at least 2 witnesses for each truth he gives us.  Every Scripture is in complete harmony with every other Scripture.  God is not the author of confusion.  However, mankind is.

      So again, if the flesh profits nothing, then why do so many put their trust and faith into physical carnal displays and rituals of the flesh?  Because they have been lied to.  People find comfort in their man-made traditions.  Adopting pagan traditions into the Word’s of Christ has been a well known and documented event.  Why does it still go on?  Because people do not like to let go of their idols of the heart.  It’s a comfort zone.  They do wonderful works in their mind/eyes, yet Christ tells us that He does not know them. (Matt. 7:22-23).

      1 Tim 2:4  God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

      God specifically states that He will have ALL men to be saved.  Carrie and now, No Body say NO NO NO.  God will not save ALL men.  No Body even says (incorrectly I might add) that no Scripture comes back void.  Actually the Scripture correctly translated says in Isaiah 55:11 "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth: It shall not return to me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

      So here we have yet again, God stating that absolutely His Word (His Truth) does not return to Him void/undone.  It shall prosper in the thing (Mankind) for which God sent it.

      What else does God say? 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is…NOT WILLING that ANY should perish (well how is He going to keep them from perishing?...), but that all should come to repentance. So one Scripture states that God’s Word does not return to Him undone and another we have God saying that He does NOT will for anyone to perish. Yet Carrie and No Body claim some will perish and some won’t. I realize it’s difficult for you to understand the Scriptures without the mind of Christ in you. What God is saying so very clearly to those who have an ear (His Elect) is that God does not want anyone to perish and that He will have ALL men (mankind) saved.

      Do you understand what "Not willing" means? Now this is the will of God and this is important. God’s will is that no one should perish… NO ONE. This means that yes, even Adolf Hitler & Osama Bin Laden, will not perish. I know that that may be disturbing to many BUT GOD DOES NOT LIE. However, they all still have to repent.

      You say, ‘well how can they repent when they are already dead?’ True, they are dead currently. But they are coming back in judgment and they have to repent then. Why? Because The Lord is…NOT WILLING that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God tells us that those that claim to be wise (theologians) will not understand. Clearly, God doesn’t lie because Carrie and No Body do not understand when God speaks.

      Now we are going to see what theologians do with these verses and what you can’t ever do with these verses. Because this is Truth, God does not will - He’s not willing - He does not want - He has no such desire - He takes no pleasure in any perishing. But He is going to have them all repent. THAT is how God will save ALL mankind in their order.

      Here are some New Testament Scriptures which speak of different "fires" by which men are judged:

      "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of Gold that perishes, though it be tried in the fire [Christ's 'Gehenna fire'], might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7)

      "Faith" is intangible and as such cannot be "tried" in literal fire. The Greek word translated fire is pur, and it means "fire" (literal or figuratively)-Strong's #4442.

      Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he has built there upon, he shall receive a reward.


      Again fire (Gk; pur) is used figuratively, because the one being tried, "...he himself shall be saved, yet as BY FIRE." If one is "saved by fire," he is not eternally tortured in fire.

      I NOTICE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT Carrie and now No Body by expressing their support for the unscriptural doctrines that Carrie has attempted to present, you love to put limitations on God as if h

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Oh!  I must laugh at myself here (God does have a sense of humor); some-body, I assumed was a woman.  However, I've received a personal email from HIM, so indeed it would appear I was talking in third person!  Laugh a little, will you HellNo?

      Thus a very important point to be made here.  Obviously, as people, "some-body" and I are complete strangers, but in the Lord, the Word says this: Ephesians 2:18-19 "for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.  So then we are no longer strangers and aliens, but are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household."

      I have a brother and his wife of which are my family and we have an instant bond that will last for...yes...all eternity!  Glory to God.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      I was speaking of some-one (who's clueless here?). I have a question for you, but will ask it on your Eternity hub. See you there.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Ezekial 16:55

      When your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then you (Jerusalem) shall return to your former estate.  (Sodom’s former estate was not in hell, was it?)


      Well, congratulations Carrie.  It's amazing that in slightly under three hours you have been dragged out of the church by God and been delivered from all of their false doctrines.  That is if you are speaking in the third person as it appears.  Or are you speaking of No Clue now leaving behind the doctrines of the devil's "behind" and becoming. . . . . .. . .A Clue?

    • no body profile image

      Robert E Smith 

      9 years ago from Rochester, New York

      My job is to love those who for one reason or other can not love me. I am to preach the Gospel, be instant in season and out of season. I take that to mean that when someone sincerely disagrees with my reasoning from Scripture I am to do what God does and to just love you and continue to pray for you. No Scripture comes back void so the Living Word is now at work in you and me. We shall see which view of the same words is right in the end. I will not revel in your demise. Could you say the same?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Thank God she's already been delivered from the snare of false doctrine; I don't think she will elect to turn back to Sodom & Gomorrah, any more than Israel would elect to go back to Egypt. PRAISE GOD THE TRUTH SETS US FREE. AMEN.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      The only way that one can love all as we are commanded to do, is to sincerelly believe and know that the evil of this world is only temporary and all will be brought to repentence and salvation at a future point. The scriptures attest to this in several areas. I have shown many of them and I think Jaccobs has done an admiral job (just too much for a blind person to read). Carrie may actually believe she has love for all humanity but it is just more deception. The churches of men are good at deceiving people into believing that they are full of love. In fact, they teach of a god that burns people alive forever but that god still loves them. What kind of a twisted terrorist would wish to torture (or separate from) someone forever that he loves? The cults are those assemblies of men in those buildings teaching a god of meager success that will not bring his enemies to a knowledge of the truth in order to grant them salvation. Carrie, there isn't a single scripture that denies that all will in fact be saved. There are several that declare that God is love and that all will eventually receive salvation. Now Carrie is so blind that she will claim that we believe that evil doers will get off scott free. A parent who chastises their child will probably do it for correction. If the parent chooses the woodshed, he/she will have to cease at some point. How much better are our parents than the god of Christiandom. My parents are infinately better than that cult saddest.

      So No Body, I will close by simply directing you to pay attention to what we are declaring. My serious articles (not the Lucifer one) leave little for you to honestly refute. I quote several scriptures and they weren't made up by Ray. You would do well to study what I have. Because while your title (no body) is admiral, I think "No Clue" would be more appropriate.


      I agree with No Clue's last statement of prayer. God, please give "light" to (at least some of) Carrie's constant study.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      This is the truth, no body (who is some-body, a child of the Most High God). AMEN.

    • no body profile image

      Robert E Smith 

      9 years ago from Rochester, New York

      You guys should listen to Carrie or at least think about it a little while more. That is a very wise woman of God. As distorted as you think she is, she loves you both and wants the best for you. May God show you His truth and I pray He does. All Christians should love as much as much as Carrie does. I know that the mark of Christianity is love and as twisted as you think we are as Christians, and as twisted I think your belief is, there should still be a desire to see the other "come to faith." I, and I believe Carrie, will never stop loving and praying for you. God give light to your constant study.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      I didn't say ALL would NOT be saved, but certainly not ALL will be either. Satan himself misquoted the very Word of God when he tempted Jesus in the desert. Though we accuse each other of misquoting the Word, we'll have to leave it at that.

      I will leave you with this: 2 Peter 2:16 regarding all the letters written by the Apostle Paul, "in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."


    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, I could write and/or present so many scriptures that can debunk all your distortions but honestly why should I waste my time writing anything at length.  I addressed your accusations and since it's Hell No hub, I can't spoon feed you every truth.  It falls on deaf ears and it's not my place to save you.  Christ already did that when he overcame the WORLD and became the SAVIOR of the WORLD, i.e, ALL inhabitants.

      Clearly you don't understand what a cult is since you belong to one.  I however, do not belong to any earthly religion but I do assemble in the spirit as we as admonished to.  God does not dwell in buildings made by hands.

      You ask Do I/we read the bible for ourselves or do we depend on Ray to do all the work for us?

      YES, I have read & understand the Bible because I have been called to do so, not of my own will but because God deemed it acceptable that I should. 

      Haha, I'm not a JW, they too are a religion based on unscriptural doctrines.  You have more in common with JW than I do.

      Carrie, you said "JL, you are quoting Isaiah 26:9 and you asked me to show you a verse that says, when His judgments are in the earth, NOT all the inhabitants of the whole world will learn righteousness.  I do have that verse, JL.  Read the VERY NEXT VERSE, verse 10, and I quote the Word, "Though the wicked is shown favor, He does NOT learn righteousness; He deals unjustly in the land of uprightness, And does not perceive the majesty of the LORD."

      Carrie, you claim to have shown me a scripture that contradicts God's word?  You claim it states that ALL will not be saved in the next verse and claim I only pick and choose verses as they suit my particular topic?

      WHERE does this say that ALL will not be saved?  WHERE?  As usual, you attempt to defend your stance/belief and your scripture isn't even relative to the challenge.  Tell me WHERE does it say in that Scripture that ALL will not be saved?  WHERE? 

      The answer is that it does not say that ALL will not be saved.  Nowhere does that verse indicate that ALL will not be saved.  You can't make a liar out of God. 

      Mat 13:17 For verily I am saying to you that many prophets and just men YEARN to perceive what you are observing, and perceive not, and to HEAR what you are hearing, and hear not.

      Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the flesh?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      P.S.  In light of my last comment, I'd like to ask you this: Do you guys actually read the entire Bible for yourselves?  Or do you just read Ray's verses and interpretations and teachings and just follow him wherever he goes?  Don't you trust your ability to rightly divide the Word of Truth, or has he convinced you you're not able to? 

      Cults are full of previously untaught sheep.  80% or more of Jehovah's Witnesses are ex-Catholics who also were convinced only the Priest could teach the Word to them, and they weren't encouraged to study or even challenge what they were taught on their, here comes the WatchTower ~ the blind leading the blind, as you've so often stated.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      JL, I don't want to spend hours here, but you asked me something as follows and I accepted the challenge:

      Jacobbsladdr wrote to me:"You need to start believing these verses of Scripture and not what you THINK it's suppose to mean! It says the inhabitants of the WORLD. When? When Thy judgments are in the earth. Now who does that include? The whole earth, all the inhabitants of the whole world, to me that is everybody. You say, ‘no it’s not.’ Well to me it is, I’m sorry you are going to have to show me a verse that says, when His judgments are in the earth, NOT all the inhabitants of the whole world will learn righteousness. Do you have a Scripture that says that? ‘No.’

      Here is my response: JL, you are quoting Isaiah 26:9 and you asked me to show you a verse that says, when His judgments are in the earth, NOT all the inhabitants of the whole world will learn righteousness.  I do have that verse, JL.  Read the VERY NEXT VERSE, verse 10, and I quote the Word, "Though the wicked is shown favor, He does NOT learn righteousness; He deals unjustly in the land of uprightness, And does not perceive the majesty of the LORD."

      In doing hours and hours of study to answer every verse quoted on Hell-No's hub (Why the churches are wrong about so many things), I noticed this to be the case many times.  One verse without reading the very next one, which then denies, or limits the whole context of "the rest of the story".

      Had there not been such err in this massive doctrine based on ALL by your group, I would have been more open-minded, but this is a matter of spiritual life or death to ALL , (comma)...those who follow your teachings!

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Hey Jacobbs. I see that you are determined to spoon feed Carrie Ray's entire site. The problem is, she will not receive it at this time. I have admonished her to move on, mostly because of her insistense that we are the swine and her Babylonian twaddle is pearls. You keep dragging her back over every doctrinal issue she is wrong about. With all that you are posting, she has surely choked a thousand times already. She can't handle it. Ray's site is full of pearls, but one true pearl for Carrie would choke her as if she were eating an entire walrus without first cutting it up. She needs milk. If you feed her the meat from bible-truths she's gonna blow the milk right out of her nose from shock and denial.

      Look Carrie, the site is If you can handle meat, go there. You will not be able to prove or even demonstrate with competence one doctrinal error made by Ray (not talking about the many typos there). I have given Ray credit where I see fit. But I do use my own words to paraphrase so that "Cave Fish Carrie" and others can chew on the sound doctrines as I understand them.

      Anyway Jacobbs, I appreciate your spirit in defending truth, but let's wait for others to question parts of it before we continue to unload proof for every misunderstanding of Babylon the Great, the Mother of all Prostitutes.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      JL, I read your responses and yet because you continue to attack, and are very incorrect about your accusations, I believe you will be judged by your own words of which you write.  I am willing to address all the issues on Hell-No's hub that I agreed to do, and did a great deal of study because my heart is burdened for him, you and yours; if you love God and live according to His Spirit and leading, what concern have you?  Are you concerned for me?  I believe and am saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ His Son.  I have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit and submit myself to God, even in conversing with you, which is certainly not easy.  I'm sorry you feel so attacked and hurt (or so it appears).  I am grieved at your attacks, but I forgive them because of the Spirit of God who gives me the ability to do so.  AMEN.

      Any scripture written accurately is not in dispute; the interpretation and context, however is the differing between whatever church/faith you follow and the Faith in which I follow. This is why I am prepared to reason, but not merely dispute. AMEN.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      This Scripture's are for Carrie. 

      Mat 13:17 For verily I am saying to you that many prophets and just men YEARN to perceive what you are observing, and perceive not, and to HEAR what you are hearing, and hear not.

      Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the flesh?

      Carrie, you think that by doing physical rituals you are honoring God. you think tithing, speaking in tongues, etc prove you have a gift from God. You put your faith in fleshly exhibitions and Christ & his disciples answers your claims and state you are a fool. You are a worker of iniquity as well as those who claim to believe as you do.

      II Corinthians 11:12 And what I do I WILL CONTINUE to do, in order TO UNDERMINE THE CLAIM OF THOSE who would like to claim that in their BOASTED mission they work on the same terms AS WE DO.

      Mat 12:34 Progeny of vipers! How can you be speaking what is good, being wicked? For out of the superabundance of the heart the mouth is speaking.

      And what it is in our hearts that Christ is speaking of?

      Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [ that's the 'soulish--natural' mind of all humanity] is enmity [deep-seeded hatred] against God [Sound a bit familiar?]: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

      Christ spoke specifically of you and others like you when He stated:

      Mat 15:8 This people with their lips is honoring Me, Yet their heart is away at a distance from Me.

      You claim to honor Christ but yet you do the very things that He claims do not honor Him or God.

      I am given comfort knowing that the follow Scripture is truthful, particular when applied to people such as yourself who live and breath & preach unscriptural nonsense.

      Luke 10:19 Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances."

      Of course, I direct this commandment of "treading upon serpents and scorpions" not toward you, directly, but the EVIL SPIRIT that deceives you and those who claim to share your beliefs....

      This parable is directly speaking to you.

      Mat 13:3 And He speaks many things to them in parables, saying, "Lo! out came the sower to be sowing.

      Mat 13:4 And, in his sowing, some, indeed, falls beside the road, and the flying creatures came and devoured it.

      Mat 13:5 Yet other falls on rocky places, where it had not much earth, and immediately it shoots up, because it has no depth of earth.

      Mat 13:6 Yet at the rising of the sun, it is scorched, and, because it has no root, it is withered.

      Mat 13:7 Yet other falls on thorns, and the thorns come up and smother it.

      Mat 13:8 Yet other falls on ideal earth and gave fruit, some, indeed, a hundred, yet some sixty, yet some thirtyfold.

      Mat 13:19 At everyone hearing the word of the kingdom and not understanding, coming is the wicked one and snatching what has been sown in his heart. This is he who is being sown beside the road.

      Mat 13:20 Yet he who is being sown on the rocky places, this is he who is hearing the word and straightway with joy is getting it,

      Mat 13:21 yet has no root in himself, but is temporary.

      Now at the coming of affliction or persecution because of the word, straightway he is snared.

      Mat 13:22 Now he who is being sown in the thorns, this is he who is hearing the word, and the worry of this eon and the seduction of riches are stifling the word, and it is becoming unfruitful.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      According to Carrie and other "free-willers," a person must choose of his own will, to love and obey God. Any person with a "free will" is supposedly able to hate and disobey God on one day and then decide for himself on another day to love and obey God. This is believed to be self-repentance. And this, we are told is something that every individual must do on his own, seeing that God will not make one or force one to do this. It must be "freely" chosen, or of what value is "forced love," as they argue?

      Here is a problem of major proportions starring us right in the face with this free will assertion. If a carnal minded person cannot love God and cannot be subject to God’s law, how in the world is he going to choose to love and obey God with his carnal mind? God’s Word says that it is not possible ("…neither indeed CAN BE"—King James/"…for neither is it ABLE"—Concordant Literal New Testament).

      God’s word tells us that the natural, carnal mind of man, [all mankind—the human race], cannot love or obey God. For it:

      "receives not the things of the spirit," "neither indeed CAN BE/for neither is it ABLE."

      Therefore the will of man, of all mankind—the entire human race, is not ‘free’ to contradict these Scriptural Truths of God.

      I'm not talking about the verses here or there where a person is said to have made a "choice." We are not talking about "making choices." Dumb computers can made "choices."

      What I am trying to draw your undivided attention to is the Scriptural teaching of the theological/physiological/philosophical power and ability of the natural, unaided human mind to choose good.

      The subject is not can a man make a choice. The subject is can a man make a choice to obey God with his natural mind?

      I have shown you that God says in His Word that the natural, unaided mind of man cannot "will" and choose to do good.

      The Scriptures have already concluded that man’s will is not free to do that which it cannot do. Yet should God intervene and cause this same person to repent and turn to God in obedience, how can this same person take credit for repenting and turning to God, seeing that it was ALL OF GOD? Yes, the human mind and will can will and can choose to obey God, but ONLY when God causes it to do so.

      Did Jesus obey His God and Father, without a cause?

      "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, [truly, truly what Jesus is about to say is the Gospel Truth!] I say unto you, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF…" (John 5:19).


      Can we obey our Lord Jesus Christ, without a cause?

      "I am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING" (John 15:5).

      "WITHOUT ME YE [‘ye’ means ‘ALL of you’] CAN DO NOTHING"

      I repeat:



      Where then is the "freedom of will" and "freedom of choice" in these two statements of God’s Word? They are nowhere. There is no such thing. They don’t exist. The theory of "free moral agency" is one of the foolish and stupid wisdom's of this world.

      "Love NOT the world, neither the things [nor the stupid wisdom] that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT in him... And the world PASSES AWAY…" (I John 2:15 & 17).

      The very second that something causes one’s will to do something that the person himself had not planned by an uncaused will or a will that was not influenced in any way, he ceases to have a free will. A will made to think or do anything is not free, and it is senseless to argue anything to the contrary.

      There is NOT a Scripture in the Bible that presents us with a person willing something or making a choice for which there was no cause. And "caused" wills and "caused" choices are not free.


      The free will scholars themselves have had to re-adjust their theory in the light of obvious scientific and Scriptural proof against free will. They assure us that although man does not possess total free will, he does, nonetheless, possess "limited free will." That is, man’s will is limited, but within those limits, the will is completely and totally free. Oh really?

      I never cease to be amazed at the fact that contradictions never interfere with Christian doctrine. Believing in contradictions is absolutely necessary if one is to accept most Christian doctrines, and this "limited free will" is just another one of them. Let’s take a quick look at this idiotic proposal of "limited free will." It is nothing more than "square circles".

      Here is how my Twentieth Century Webster’s Dictionary defines "limited, a. restricted" (Page 963). And here is how this same dictionary defines "free, a. without restriction" (Page 682). Got it? "Limited" means: RESTRICTED, and "free" means: WITHOUT RESTRICTION.

      So scholarly theologians would have us believe that man possesses a will that is, "RESTRICTED WITHOUT RESTRICTION." What? Does anyone see a problem with this limited free will theory? Does the word "contradiction" come to mind?

      Now then, if the natural carnal mind of man cannot choose to love and obey God, and God absolutely will not cause one to love and obey Him, how is it then that ANYONE CAN EVER BE CONVERTED? Do any of you who believe in man’s free will or man’s limited free will have an answer to this Scriptural dilemma? Or do you all feel more comfortable just leaving these questions behind as though they were never proposed in the first place? I mean, why meditate on a problem that has no Scriptural answer other than to accept the fact that the Scriptures do not support any form of a "free will" theory?


      It is impossible to contend with any amount of sanity that man’s natural mind cannot choose to obey God, and yet believe that man must choose by his own will to obey God. Such a contention is unscriptural, contradictory, nonsense. It is believed by most that not only can man choose to obey God by his own free will, but that he indeed must do so if he is ever to be saved.

      We cannot say, "Well God gives us His Holy Spirit so that we CAN choose to love and obey Him." Nope, here’s why that won’t work:

      "And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that OBEY Him" (Acts 5:32).

      And so Romans 8:7 teaches us that we can’t obey God without His Spirit, and Acts 5:32 teaches us that God only gives His Spirit to those who do obey Him. So free will is blasted out of the sky with just these two statements of Scripture. Besides, man’s free will would cease to be free if God does anything to actually cause man to repent and turn to God.

      But maybe you are one who believes in the contradiction of Scriptures? Maybe you are one who believes that your idol of the heart supersedes the plain Word of God. Apparently Carrie, you think you and others of the same belief are the exceptions to God's stated Laws.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, when will you learn to start believing God and not these man-made doctrines that contradict God's word.

      Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. But it says every man’s WORK is going to be tried in that fire, because there is another set of Scriptures in I Cor. 3, it says…1 Cor 3:15  If any man's WORK shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as by FIRE. But guess what this one tells us that Revelation doesn’t?  That’s how you get SAVED, through the FIRE!  Oh yeah you will be put in the fire, “but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.”  The fire doesn’t torture you for all eternity, it will save you!

      Scriptural harmony.  This is a perfect example of how no scripture is of it's own interpretation.  Do you have a scripture that say's God is lying here Carrie?  Do you have a scripture that God says you MUST tithe?  No Carrie, you do not have a Scripture.  Do not try to show me a scripture you THINK God contradicts Himself.  God is not the author of confusion.

      You claim you do in your many other postings.  You claim people die and go to heaven or hell.  What do the scriptures say?

      Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything… “For the living know that they shall die,” all people know that they will die, that’s a conscience knowledge, right.  They say nothing is more sure than what… death and taxes.  Everybody knows that sooner or later they will die.  We know that our pets will die.  We know that our loved ones will die and we know that we will die.  We know that, when we are alive we know that.  “But the dead know not anything,”  Now that is a clear verse.  It doesn’t even just say, they don’t know anything, but it says the LIVING KNOW.  Now you have a contrast.  The living know, they have conscience thoughts and they know.  But when you die you don’t have any conscience thoughts of anything.  That is a profound statement.  That is a Scripture.   The Bible tells us all Scripture are given by inspiration of God and doesn’t lie!  Now what is the state of the dead?  The dead don’t know anything.  Now it doesn’t say that their dead bodies don’t know anything, but they - the dead, the one that was alive, is now the one that is dead.  When he was alive he knew things, when he dies he doesn’t know anything.

      First of all death is the act of dying - the vehicle causing the death - the state of being dead.  The word death means all three of those.  You can check your dictionary. 

      So when it just says ‘death’, there is no reason to think, oh it’s talking about this death or it has to be that death.  It could be or it could be all three at the same time.  How is that possible?  The sea gave up the dead that were in it, in other words humanity gave up all of the spiritual dead people that are not in the first resurrection.  Death gave up those that were in it and hades gives up the dead.  When you are in hades you are dead, because that is the dead state.  Those that are dying, from all humanity out of the sea, guess what?  They are all thrown into the Lake of fire - the dying - the cause of death - death itself.  That is why we have in I Cor. 15.1 Cor 15:26  The last enemy being abolished (or destroyed) is DEATH. The one word covers it all, DEATH.  Anybody who is in the spiritual state of DEATH - who is physically going towards DEATH - DEATH is taking it’s toll on people - those that actually residing in DEATH, in that they have already died.  Every form of the word DEATH is going to be abolished.  Then there can be no one who is dying or partially dead, like being spiritually dead or in the state of death.  Why?  Because death itself is going to be abolished.

      Carrie, do you have a Scripture that says the dead are alive somewhere in Heaven or Hell?  No you don't.  So don't try to show me a Scripture you THINK insinuates that people are living up in Heaven or suffering down in a eternal Hell.

      Carrie, you claim that when God’s judgments are in the earth most of the people will not repent and they will perish and be tortured for all eternity, forever and ever and ever in the Lake of fire, the fire that has no quenching and the worm do not die, etc…

      Do we have a Scripture that says when the judgments of God come to this whole entire world and all the inhabitants of the earth, then those people WILL learn righteousness? Yes we do.

      Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

      You need to start believing these verses of Scripture and not what you THINK it's suppose to mean! It says the inhabitants of the WORLD. When? When Thy judgments are in the earth. Now who does that include? The whole earth, all the inhabitants of the whole world, to me that is everybody. You say, ‘no it’s not.’ Well to me it is, I’m sorry you are going to have to show me a verse that says, when His judgments are in the earth, NOT all the inhabitants of the whole world will learn righteousness. Do you have a Scripture that says that? ‘No.’ Well then you don’t have a Scripture that contradicts that Scripture. If you did we would have to throw the Bible out anyway, because then it wouldn’t be true and God would be a liar.

      If you claim you have Scripture which contradicts the above Scriptures, you are a liar.

      There are NO scriptures that contradict. What contradicts is when you and the majority of Christianity, i.e., wolves in sheeps clothing start assuming a Scripture means what you want it to mean and not what God says it means.

      Start believing God & stop believing your carnal idols of the heart.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Carrie, it is certainly no surprise that you completely misunderstand the scriptures regarding tithing. You need to put away childish things.

      You promote tithing?  What does Jesus say about tithing? Listen to Jesus' own words: 

      "WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES!   For you tithe of mint and anise and cummin [little herbs of the garden], and have OMITTED the weightier matters of the law, JUDGMENT, MERCY, AND FAITH..." (Mat. 23:23).

      WOW! There it is, Carrie. Tithing was NOTHING to Jesus compared to properly judging [taking care of], MERCY [where is the mercy in taking WIDOW'S MITES?], and FAITH [these hypocrites don't HAVE ANY FAITH, or they would trust God for their ministries and NOT WIDOWS WHO ARE DISABLED]..." Read Verse 14:


      It is UNSCRIPTURAL EVIL to place these burdens on the shoulders of fragile widows!! Verse 4:

      "For they bind HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be born, and lay them on men's [AND WIDOW'S] shoulders; but THEY themselves will NOT move them with one of their fingers."

      Ask your pastor if God demands ten percent of a disabled persons welfare check?  As him if that person will LOOSE THEIR BLESSINGS FROM GOD if they do not give ten percent of their disability checks to him?  Carrie, God's truths condemn these evil practices of many charlatans in the church today. There is a minister on TBN that NEVER ONCE speaks on ANYTHING except becoming blessed and prospering by sending HIM your money. He has a huge ministry that goes around the world. It is sickening to watch him pronounce his blessings and cursing on his listeners for either giving or not giving him their money. And yet, you will NEVER hear him or any other prosperity preacher say that if one is in poverty or debt, to not feel obligated to send them money. In fact, they will tell you that if you are in debt, can't pay all your bills, don't have enough to buy food and live on, that THIS IS THE TIME TO SEND THEM YOUR MONEY FOR SURE!!!  God have mercy on their wretched souls. They need to repent and start obeying and trusting GOD!

      In the book of Acts when there were widows whose needs were not being met, ALL TWELVE APOSTLES called for the elders of the church to appoint those who were filled with the spirit and wisdom to TAKE CARE OF THESE WIDOWS IMMEDIATELY! Paul told Timothy to HONOR the widows who were widows indeed.

      Carrie, even in ancient Israel if a man had but NINE cows or sheep (many poverty-stricken people around the world would have been thankful for but ONE milking cow to feed their children), God did not consider such a one prosperous enough to TITHE AT ALL!!

      A man with only nine cows did NOT tithe his cattle to God. God IS merciful.

      Here's what you can do to receiving BLESSINGS from God: 

      Be kind! Show love to everyone! Be thankful! Pray for others!  You can do all these things and GOD WILL BLESS the person!

      Stop promoting an unscriptural fleshly ritual.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Hell hath no fury, than a Christian shown the truth.

      Isaiah 53:1, Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

      Heb 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

      When Jesus warned of this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it was when He had cast out demons. The Scribes said that Jesus cast out devils by the prince of devils (Mark 3:22). The Pharisees also accused Him of this very same thing (Matt. 9:34). And we are told that Jesus gave that stern warning, "Because they said, He [Jesus] has an unclean spirit." But this alone is not all there is to this sin. Even in the Old Testament, when one sinned "ignorantly," he was held to a lower standard than if he sinned "willfully, knowlingly." God's principles are always true. There was more to the sin of these Scribes and Pharisees than merely stating that Jesus had a devil and cast out devils by the prince of devil.

      The truth is THEY KNEW BETTER. They knew that they were lying in order to deceive the multitudes who were beginning to believe in and trust Jesus as a Man of God. They were SINNING AGAINST LIGHT. They were sinning aginst WHAT THEY KNEW WAS THE TRUTH. And how do we know this? We are frankly TOLD this in the Scriptures. In John 3 we have a "Ruler of the Jews" by the name of Nicodemus, and this is what we are told by him: "There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a RULER [this man KNEW what the Scribes and the Pharisees believed behind closed doors] of the Jews. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, WE [Scribes, Pharisees, Rulers, Jews] KNOW that you are a Teacher COME FROM GOD; for no man can do these miracles [such as casting out demons] that You do, except GOD BE WITH HIM" (John 3:1-2). It is when we KNOW the truth and blaspheme AGAINST THE TRUE LIGHT THAT WE KNOW, that we then "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" which is the means by which light and truth is imparted.

      You have claimed to know the truth Carrie, yet still sin. Maybe you need to rethink your ideology when considering the above scripture. It's not others who will be in the Lake of fire by your own mouth, but you yourself.

      I thank you for your particpation. You dont even realize that your very presence here is because GOD willed it.

      Throwing curses and calling people of the Devil when clearly the opposite is true, won't change the scriptures to suit you. The above scripture states what will happen. Maybe you should remember that it's what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person, not what goes into it.

      Mat 12: 31-32 (LITV)31 Because of this, I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

      32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, not in this age nor in the coming one

      I know it's frustrating for you to be confronted with the actual truths of God's Word but you would do well to remember the above scriptures when you again call people of the Devil. I doubt you can understand but the scripture is there for our admonishment. not just to fill space. He that has an ear, listen.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA


      You assume there is a difference between God's Word and Will?  They are one in the same.

      you need to stop watching the history channel about the Books of the Bible and calling it legitimate scholarship. It is not.

      What you don't realize is the Words Christ is speaking are spirit not literal.  These words are for His Elect.  The invitation is speaking to the Elect.  NOT for those in the 2nd resurrection.  the Elect are those that beleive in Christ and DO Christs will. Christ is always speaking in/to the Spirit to the few and NOT the many. How many professing Christians think they have free will. Millions. How many of the Elect will there be? FEW.

      Which side do you claim to be a part of. The side that has free will, i.e., the MANY. See you at the 2nd resurrection Carrie.

      Again, Carrie, tithing in this present time is unscriptural.  You have NO scripture which tells us to tithe now.  Those commanded were for the levite priests and you misquote scripture to suit your point... yet again.

      You use the argument of context.  You don't have a spiritual understanding of the scriptures, that much is plainly obvious.  You think everything is literal and in context.  The Bible speaks in figurative, symbolic languages and it also speaks in/to the spirit.  None of which falls under context. You use the argument of context incorrectly. you don't even know what context is.

      You attempt to show that even Christ doesn't know who will accept His invitation.  You want to beleive in your ability to have a free will so you ignore ALL the other scriptures which are in harmony with every single other scripture just to point out 1 scripture that you think means something it doesn't.   This then causes all the other scriptures to not match.  Just so you can have your free will.

      The wisdom of this world is truly foolishness to God.  Your wisdom is that man has free will and God is powerless to stop the devil until a time that you think is acceptable to your carnal mind.  You can't accept that God is in control of all things at all times.  God directs EVERY Man's steps NOT YOU.  Do you understand what blind means?  Do you understand what deaf means?  You show both traits when clear and plain truths are show to you and you ignore them.

      Carrie, you have zero understanding.  We are told to study and show ourselves approved.  You have no understanding of what God is.  The LOF is indeed a purification.  The ingredients we are told that make up the lake of fire are in the literal sense purifying agents.  When you understand that the LOF is spirit because God is Spirit, not A spirit, then you understand that all the ingredients that make up the lake of fire are spiritual as well.  So it is a spiritual purification.  These are not hard concepts to grasp.

      Let him that has a ear hear.

      Satan is thrown into the LOF for the very reason those in the 2nd resurrection are.  To be purified.  He has done what he was created for and will be judged as the elect will judge the angels as well.  I don't expect you to understand these spiritual truths because clearly they are beyond your scope of understanding because GOD has not given you that ability.  You do understand that it is GOD who causes you to understand and not your own free will that you claim you have.

      God accepts responsibility for his Creation.  God created mankind spiritually weak and full of vanity against their "will"  It is not a free will.  you don't even understand what Free will means.  Yet you continue to use it as some sort of logical argument.

      God created man knowing he would sin.  Look now man is as one of us, knowing good AND EVIL.  It was necessary for man to eat, to fall and to know good and evil.  you can not have a understanding of anything without knowing it in contrast.  you can't appreciate good if you don't understand and experience evil.  How could your supposed "Free will" even want to stop sinning if you didn't experience the bad/sinning?  IT IS A MUST.  God's ways are not your ways.  Yet you claim God is no better than mere man.  YOU limit God then turn around and claim others are of the devil.  Do you even see where you err?

      You keep addressing that believing in God is necessary.  Yes it definitely is but those that BELIEVE do HIS Will completely ... His Elect do His Will completely.  YOU do your own will.  So you clearly DO NOT Believe in God or His Word or His Will otherwise you would not be arguing these points. 

      You are the one who doesn't beleive in God.  You have God as weak as man, unable to do anything right, and torturing a majority of humanity for all eternity.

      Do you understand what "THE FEW" means?  Do you understand that when Christ returns will He will find faith?  You do realize for this to be true, then Christ will find little faith upon his return.  IF you beleive as you claim and your correct and there are SOOO many who share your views, then why when Christ returns does he find little to no faith?  UNLESS, your beliefs are wrong.  you have no faith in God because you have made God weak and powerless to do anything that He wants or Wills.

      You don't even realize how silly your argument is.  But you argue because you enjoy the attention, you thrive off it.  That much is clear.  Your self righteous and think that YOU will be in heaven and think it's fair that God should torture all others.  God says to love our enemies but he will torture them for all eternity.  Contradiction any number of scriptures.  But you don't care.  You think you know what your talking about, then you contradict scripture time and time and time again.

      Presently and throughout history there have been a relative FEW who shared my views on the scriptures. You are part of the MANY self professed Christians who think God is powerless and his creation malfunctioned and Satan can do as he pleases and Christ is a failure, he can't Save the WORLD. You think is says MAYBE. I can tell you who according to scripture is correct and who is incorrect.

      The MANY are incorrect. Of which you appear to be part of.

      It's actually quite simple.

      IF and When God chooses to open your eyes, when you look back on this day you will not beleive you were so blinded. It's the same for each and every one of us, but we wouldn't have it any other way. It truly is a blessing to be dragged out of Babylon.

      Maybe one day you will experience it too if it's GOD's WILL, not yours.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      JL: You have misquoted here: "God's Will never returns to Him void".  This would be correctly stated as "God's WORD never returns to Him void." (Isaiah 55:11).

      "If ANY MAN thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on Me,": Notice the word "IF"

      "At what point in future prophecy, will Jesus Christ CUT OFF the invitation to all and any who are athirst to drink of His LIVING WATERS?":  What is an INVITATION?  Sounds like people can choose to attend or participate...or not.

      "I will give unto him that is athirst of the FOUNTAIN OF THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY": He will, as long as each man is one who is thirsty. "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:6)

      "so too will Satan be thrown into the LOF and changed so that he too will serve God."  This is not a scriptural quote, but an interpretation or doctrine.  Satan is not human, therefore does not have a soul and cannot be saved.  Angels are not "children of God", nor are they heirs.  Satan has been in the presence of God many times throughout the Bible and was not consumed by the "consuming FIRE" and has not changed, nor will he.

      I do believe God is "FIRE" and that when we love our enemies, we "heap coals of fire on their heads". People that are indeed convicted (moved to repentance) by the "fire" will be purified by Jesus Christ and will indeed be changed into a new creature, one that is now "in Christ".

      Christ was the FIRST to be raised from the dead. He is thererfore the "First Fruit", and those of us who are "in Christ" will be raised from the dead also. These are the rest that you speak of, in my spiritual understanding. Tithing is also considered "first fruits", which represents 1/10, a "payment" into the House of God. Jesus is also our "payment".

      And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the WATER OF LIFE FREELY": Note "WHOSOEVER WILL" (is this a "will of man" here?)

      Any that say God will Fail are liars, and wil have their part in the LOF: So you at least admit those who are children of the father of LIES (Satan) will have their part in the LOF (except that you believe this is just a purification process).

      Jesus Christ IS the "tree of life" in the Garden, and NO ONE can partake of that tree of life except he first pass the through the "FLAMING SWORD" that points in all directions and guards the tree of life. Remember, "Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE": Adam and Eve were not to eat of the tree of life and because they did, they were banned from the Garden and could not return. This is taken out of context.

      According to Christendom THERE IS NO GREAT FALL HARVEST OF SOULS at the end of the ages!: If this Harvest is when the wheat is separated from the tares (the tares are to be bound together and cast into the LOF), then Christiandom does indeed believe this.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      3.    "Thou shall observe the FEAST OF TABERNACLES seven [number of perfection] days, after that you have gathered in your corn and your wine: And you shall REJOICE IN YOUR FEAST, you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the widow, that are within your gates [that’s just about EVERYONE, wouldn’t you say?]. Seven days [here’s that perfect number again] shall you keep A SOLEMN FEAST [a very important feast to God] unto the LORD your God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless you in all your increase, and in all the works of your hands, therefore you shalt surely REJOICE" (Deut. 16:13-15). Here truly was a festival in which EVERYONE, every single person in all Israel, and also did you notice, "the STRANGER" who was NOT an Israelite could really REJOICE! THIS FESTIVAL WAS THE HAPPIEST TIME OF THE YEAR! Do we think it will have no fulfillment in God’s grand plan of salvation?   "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, the fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHTH DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36). Why is the profound and marvelous truth of this festival not taught in its proper chronological order by the prophets of Christendom? How is it even possible to avoid seeing the powerful and glorious consummation of God’s salvation in this Fall Harvest Festival? Why is the truth of this GREAT FEAST being hidden from the eyes of the world? What is it that they are trying to hide from us? God’s Word will show us.


      The eighth day of this Feast of Tabernacles was called "The Last Great Day of the Feast." Jesus Christ Himself came to the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem and spoke on the Last Great Day:

      "In the last day, that GREAT DAY OF THE FEAST, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If ANY MAN thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATER" (John 7:37-38).

      At what point in future prophecy, will Jesus Christ CUT OFF the invitation to all and any who are athirst to drink of His LIVING WATERS? Our Lord NEVER cuts off the invitation to drink of the living waters. These waters (a symbol for God’s SPIRIT) will be available until every creature in heaven and earth is saved:

      "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the FOUNTAIN OF THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 21:6).

      "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 22:17).

      And this declaration is made just five verses before the END OF THE BIBLE!

      But don’t be deceived, Jesus Christ IS the "tree of life" in the Garden, and NO ONE can partake of that tree of life except he first pass the through the "FLAMING SWORD" that points in all directions and guards the tree of life. Remember, "Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

      So Tabernacles celebrated the great Fall harvest, the largest harvest of the whole year. It was this great Fall harvest that would sustain Israel through the winter months. There were far more products to be harvested in the END of the year than in the Spring of the year. Therefore this same type must carry over into the New Testament.

      So here is where we are. There were THREE great festivals in the yearly calendar of Israel:

      "THREE TIMES in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which He shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread [which included Passover], and in the feast of weeks [firstfruits], and in the feast of tabernacles [the time of the great fall harvest]: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty" (Deut. 16:16).

      First comes the wave sheaf, the very first of the firstfruits, on Passover, during the feast of unleavened bread. This represents CHRIST, the very first (wave sheaf) OF the firstfruit, our Passover sacrificed for us.

      Second was the Feast of Weeks when the firstfruit of the land was harvested. This represents US, the FIRSTFRUIT to enter God’s Kingdom. James says WE are the firstfruit of God (James 1:18).

      Third came the great Fall harvest, the Feast of Tabernacles, a much much larger gathering, where ALL THE FALL HARVEST was gathered in! What does this Feast picture? This was the time of true REJOICING FOR EVERYONE. Absolutely EVERYONE. No one was left out of this great and final festival of the year:

      "And thou shalt rejoice IN THY FEAST [of Tabernacles, the fall harvest], YOU, and your SON, and your DAUGHTER, and your MANSERVANT, and your MAIDSERVANT, and the LEVITE, the STRANGER [GENTILES], and the FATHERLESS, and the WIDOW, that are within your gates" (Deut. 16:14).


      And so we see in the New Testament that these three festivals of ancient Israel are really TYPES in God’s master plan of salvation. Christ the FIRST of the firstfruit. Then believers, the FIRSTFRUITS. And then the great FALL HARVEST.

      But wait a minute. We know that Christ was the First of the firstfruit to be resurrected to life. We also know that all the believing saints who are to reign with Christ at His coming are the rest of the firstfruits. So where then does the great fall harvest of souls come into God’s family? When have you ever been taught about the great fall harvest, which excludes no one but includes everyone? There is a reason why you haven’t heard the truth of these Scriptures in Christendom.

      According to Christendom THERE IS NO GREAT FALL HARVEST OF SOULS at the end of the ages!

      That’s right, they say there will be NO Fall Harvest in God’s Kingdom. Just how do they account for such a thing? Is God such an inept and unskilled Farmer that He has a total crop failure when Fall harvest time comes, or will He just BURN THE ENTIRE HARVEST in the eternal fires of some fabled hell?

      Shame on all those who claim that God is unable to SAVE ALL according to HIS Will. God will Save all. All scriptures are harmonious. Any that say God will Fail are lairs, and wil have their part in the LOF. ALL LAIRS means ALL.

      When will people start believing God? When God allows them understanding according to His Grace. The Few will understand but the Many Will not.

      Ms. Bradshaw and all of Christianity and other Religious Sects are part of the Many. We are commanded to love them & we do. By exposing those who contradict.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Interestingly Ms. Bradshaw, you stated "I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it states ALL WILL BE SAVED.  Show me that scripture!"

      I showed you not 1 but SEVERAL where ALL will be Saved.  Brought to Repentance is the same thing. 

      You don't want to believe that God will Save All.  you don't want to believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of ALL.  Why?  Do you think you are worthy of Heaven and other sinners are not?  ALL sin.  You Sin.  You are not perfect.  I am not either.  Why do you think you are deserving of Heaven and others are not. 

      There are none who have ascended to Heaven.  None will ever ascend to Heaven.  God's Elect only will be brought into the Kingdom of God for a Season, then ALL others in their order.  We are given constant scriptural proofs in the form of symbolism, foreshadowing and outright statements.  You refuse to believe these truths because you have NO Faith in God.

      God wills to save all humanity (I Tim. 2:4 and Isaiah 46:9-11) and God's Will never returns to Him void.


      There is a beautiful type in the Old Testament that clearly demonstrates when and in what manner all these Unsaved masses will be saved. This Old Testament type is illustrated all through the New Testament, but the blind and unperceiving eyes of Christendom have for the most part failed to see it, believe it, or teach it.

      The American Heritage College Dictionary: "type n  6. A figure, representation, or symbol of something to come, such as an event in the Old Testament that foreshadows another in the New Testament," p. 1485.  There are many such types beginning back in the the first chapter of Genesis.

      Here are just two examples: The Passover in ancient Israel was a type of its true fulfillment to come in our Lord's crucifixion, "Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened [but now speaking spiritually]. For even Christ our PASSOVER [Lamb] is sacrificed [crucified] for us "(I Cor. 5:7).  And James 1:18 clearly demonstrates the foreshadowing of the firstfruits harvest by saying:  "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a KIND of firstfruits [of the Spring Harvest] of His creatures [not farm products]." It is also important to note that whenever the word "first" is used, it always suggests more to follow -- there is never a Spring harvest without a following Fall harvest. We will now consider three of the Old Testament types that center on the harvest seasons. In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:

      THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).  

      COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.

      THE FIRSTFRUITS (Feast of Weeks): "All the best of the oil , and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I given thee ... And whatsoever is FIRST RIPE in the land which they shall bring unto the Lord, shall be thine..." (Num.18:12 & 13). "And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord, has given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God" (Deut. 26:10).

      COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9. In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.

      Paul tells us in Rom. 8:23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit..." Nowhere do we read of the "LASTFRUITS," but whenever something is FIRST we also know there is something to follow. Nor are there any references to any "ONLYFRUITS." The firstfruits are clearly not the ONLY fruits! Follow this very closely now, for you are in for a big shock when you understand the type in the fall festival of Tabernacles—the great fall harvest.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      John 3:16 states, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (born) Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM "should not" perish, but have eternal life.  This definitely gives the criteria/prerequisite of BELIEVING IN HIM.

      John 3:17 states, "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world "should be"/"might be" saved THROUGH HIM.  They must have Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.  This scripture does not state "WILL BE" or "ARE" saved.  Read the whole chapter of John 3.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Unfortunately, Ms. Bradshaw believes that God is a failure.  The majority of people will go to Hell while she and her friends will live high in the clouds in "Heaven" playing harps and skipping from cloud to cloud.

      We can take comfort in knowing that only the Few will understand, not the many.  of which Ms. Bradshaw seems to be a part of by constantly recycling incorrect scripture that she had heard from her church and pastors.  It certainly isn't from any reliable or honest study to show herself approved.

      The need to try and save the souls of everyday people is particularly strong within the Christian religions.  What they fail to grasp is that Jesus overcame the World.  Jesus is the Savior of the Entire World.  Everyone is saved... in their order.

      No one will burn in hell for all eternity.  Anyone who promotes such horrible thinking is not of God.  God says to love your enemies not so that he can torture them for all eternity in a mythical place called Hell.  The carnal mind loves it's myths and lies.  It wants to be right all the time and can't stand that God's Word does not condemn people to Hell, does not give man free will.  It's amazing but the people whom God has graced and opened their understanding (The Few) Love God even more with this knowledge.  We have a loving Creator who loves ALL of his children and will have EVERYONE Saved.

      Ms. Bradshaw hates that idea, twists scriptures to suit her preconceived understandings of what she has been taught.  She feels the need to debate then quote Paul re shaking the dust off her feet but yet she does not stop in her quest to save souls. A job Jesus claims to have already succeeded at.

      Carrie, no one has said Christians were evil.  The lies they promote about people burning in Hell for all eternity, that is evil.  We ALL were just like you once until God graced us with understand of His Truths.  One day you will understand, but today is not that day apparently based on your statements.  God is truly in control of all things.

      Your correct, God does say you cannot serve two masters.  This is a symbolic statement.  You can not serve the OT 10 commandments/old Covenant and also serve The New Covenant that Jesus stated was now in place.  You can not believe that Jesus is the Savior of All and then say that God will punish and torture the majority in Hell.  You can not serve two masters.  You can not serve the light and the darkness.  You promote a belief in darkness, in evil and in truly horrible practices.

      Your study is not done out of love or in truth.  It is out of pride.  You call the Word of God part of the Devil because I say Jesus is the Savior of all, that Satan does not have free will and cannot do anything without God's allowance.  You are not even aware of such scriptures that state not to say that which is of God is of the Devil.  But you are sure in your smug attitude that you are correct and we are all wrong.

      You want to say we are of Satan, whereas I say ALL is of God and right now God chooses to blind you to His Truths and I pray that He will one day open your understanding as He has for me and others.

      You can't serve two masters.  You can't pronounce curses and claim to be of God.  Which one do you think you are serving based on your actions? 

      Just as those within the LOF will have their wheat and hay and stubble burned away and have their silver and gold refined, so too will Satan be thrown into the LOF and changed so that he too will serve God.

      The scriptures I have presented are harmonious throughout. the ones you have submitted are a mis-mash of your own ideas, recycled ones from your church, and completely contradictory and at odds with anything else in the Scriptures.

      God be with you.

    • profile image


      9 years ago

      And besides that, in truth, you proved nothing, you can't disprove what the scriptures say. It sounds completely convoluted and insane because it's just so alien to mainstream christian theology, but if all you're thinking is, "It MUST be wrong, this just CAN'T be right!" and run through the list of arguments you have already posted so far, then quite honestly, you have no scriptural backing and that is just your ever-deceitful heart lying to you again.

    • profile image


      9 years ago

      " Your twisted perception of these scriptures is sickening."

      What twisted perception? It's simple English. Nothing complex.Simple blunt statements. You can't twist their meanings.

      What twisted perception are you talking about? The perception that all will be saved? I thought you were absolutely gonna love it if there was a happily ever after. Including one for Satan.God said to love your enemies. If he's going to punish Satan forever and ever (even if Satan is so unfathomably evil), wouldn't that be going against his own rule?

      Saved from what? Oh, come on, a few minutes on E sword will get you the answer.

      G4982σω?ζωso?zo?sode'-zoFrom a primary word σω?ς so?s? (contraction for the obsolete σα?ος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.\

      When they say saved, they really mean, healed.

      I still can't find a scripture that explicitly states that Jesus is here to save us from the Lake of Fire/Second death/Eternal hellfire etc. etc. .

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Well it's obvious the scriptures are twisted with this group and the Apostle Paul even said there comes a time to "shake the dust from your feet" and that's what I'm going to do. Your twisted perception of these scriptures is sickening. I've never seen Satan so "good" at what he does! It's really sad, and I'm glad I'm not God, grieving over those who are so deceived.

      Stating that He chose ALL MEN to be saved, then even we "Christians" that you feel are so evil by using the correct translations of these verses are saved!

      God says man cannot serve two masters. He tells us to choose whom we will serve. Yes, EVERYONE that calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved ~ saved from what?! Why not let those who worship Satan and Satan himself join us all in the happily ever after? Hmmmm.

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      "That at the name of Jesus [Jehovah-Savior—THEIR Savior] EVERY knee should bow, in heaven, and in earth, and under the earth; and that EVERY tongue should confess [‘That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED, Rom. 10:9)] that Jesus Christ [The Christ that God ‘raised from the dead.’ Christ was already ‘RISEN’ when this was written in Phil. 2:11] is Lord [‘Lord’ means ‘master’—acknowledging Christ as Master of their lives], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11).

      But doesn’t this sound like ALL that we do to be saved is OF GOD, and not of ourselves?

      "God is operating ALL in all" (I Cor. 12:6)

      "Yet ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)

      "For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, ARE ALL THINGS: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" (Rom. 11:34)

      "…being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of His OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).

      This almost sounds like we can do absolutely NOTHING on our own to bring about our own salvation.

      "I am the vine, you are the branches … for without me you can do NOTHING" (John 15:5).

      All these Scriptures make it sound as if the Church has many worship practices that are nothing but the philosophies, commandments, and traditions of men rather than Scripture.

      "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God, [like: ‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9).

      Am I failing to find even a single Scriptural excuse for Christ to FAIL in His Great Commission? I hope so! Perhaps your pastor knows of a Scripture that will justify the Christian concept that Jesus Christ will FAIL to fulfill His commission.

       Either the bible is truthful or it's not. Scriptures that Contradict truthful study have no place in discussion. Recycling "scripture" that you have heard in church or from others is not "studying and showing yourself approved"

      If it is God's will for someone to understand then they will but if not, they will not. God's Elect will understand because they seek to do the Lord's will and pray accordingly not for their own will but for the Lord's to be done through them. there is a HUGE difference between God's Elect and the general religious population who misquotes Scripture time and time again.

      You asked for 1 scripture, I gave you SEVERAL. God is not the author of confusion, mankind is.

      Praise God!

    • jacobbsladdr profile image


      9 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

      Ms. Bradshaw says "I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it states ALL WILL BE SAVED.  Show me that scripture!!"


      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [Jesus—Jehovah - SAVIOUR] TO BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14)

      Do you know of a verse anywhere in the Bible that says Jesus will FAIL at being "The SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD?" Do you then completely believe Rom. 10:9 as the infallible Word of God? Do you believe that Jesus IS what His name SAYS He is—Savior of THE WORLD? Do you believe that His Father gave Him a commission that could only be hoped for, but never accomplished? Do you believe that Jesus Christ Will FAIL TO LIVE UP TO HIS NAME? Well, then, if you believe that Jesus IS the Savior of the world, then you certainly cannot believe that He will NOT save most of the world but rather torture most of the world for all eternity in a lake of fire.

      What will it take before we really BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES? We hear a great deal these days about "THE GREAT COMMISSION," (as though those talking about it have a clue as to what it is). Teaching the gospel is certainly commanded by our Lord, but the greatest thing about the gospel is never taught by most evangelists. That Jesus Christ died to save a small fraction of sinners is only a small fraction of the gospel. And the gospel is not the Great Commission. Would you like to know what The Great Commission really is? Okay, here it is: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent [Gk: apostello, to send out on a mission—commission] TO BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14)! See Second Witness in John 3:17. Now if anyone knows of a GREATER mission or commission than this, I am sure we would all like to know what it is?

      "Wherefore God also has highly EXALTED HIM, and given Him A NAME WHICH IS ABOVE EVERY NAME: That at THE NAME OF JESUS [Jehovah-SAVIOUR]…" (Phil. 2:9). See Second Witness in Eph. 1:21.

      Okay then, we have the "commission," and we have "a name" befitting that commission, but do we have a Son Who will do the works of that commission or will He fail?

      "…the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I DO, bear witness of Me…." (John 5:36).

      A second witness: Did Jesus take the works ("to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD") seriously?


      What power might Jesus lack that could disable or frustrate this august commission of His Father?

      "ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME in heaven and in earth" (Matt. 28:18)!

      See Second Witness in Dan. 7:14.

      Has Jesus already proven that He has enough power to overcome all the "free wills" of the world? "Be of good cheer; I have OVERCOME THE WORLD" (John 16:33).

      See Second Witness in I John 4:4.

      Maybe God doesn’t want the whole world to be saved?

      "Who WILL have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4).

      Second witness:

      "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially [but not exclusively] of those who believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

      Doesn’t God will that most of humanity will eternally perish in the lake of fire?

      "The Lord…is NOT WILLING that ANY should perish [eternally]…" (II Peter. 3:9).

      Second witness:

      "And I, if I be lifted up [on the cross] from the earth, will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME" (John 12:32).

      But doesn’t the whole world need first to have their sins atoned for?

      "And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2).

      Second witness:

      "The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29).

      Hasn’t the Church proven by their interpretation of the "lake of fire" that it is "impossible" to save all mankind?

      "Who then CAN be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" (Matt. 19:25-26).

      See Second Witness in Job 42:2.

      Isn’t it up to each individual to "CHOOSE CHIRST" in order to be saved?

      "You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

      But didn’t Billy Graham say at one of his crusades that "we must come to Christ all on our own?" To not even pray for those making that decision, because that decision to "come to Christ" must be theirs and THEIRS ALONE?

      "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME [by his own free will choice] except the Father which has sent me DRAW HIM [Greek: DRAG HIM] and I WILL raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).

      See Second Witness in Verse 65.

      Are you telling me that I never did seek God ON MY OWN?

      "There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11b).

      See Second Witness in Psalm 14:2.

      But what if I believe that I can and I do WILL to serve God on my own.

      "For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

      See Second Witness in I Cor. 15:10.

      Well I know for a fact that it says in Heb. 11:6 that without faith it is impossible to please God, so surely we must work up our OWN FAITH in order to please God?

      "For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that [that ‘FAITH’] is NOT OF YOURSELVES [well where does it come from then, if not from US?]; it is the GIFT OF GOD" (Eph. 2:8).

      Second Witness:

      "…and what have you that you did not RECEIVE….?" (I Cor. 4:7).

      But surely everyone will have to acknowledge the RISEN Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Jesus [Jehovah-SAVIOUR] before they can ever be saved, so when does that happen?

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      agr: What is the GNB and CLV? I'm not sure I recognize these versions of the Bible??

    • profile image


      9 years ago

      Eph 1:10 (GNB)This plan, which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head.

      Isa 45:22-23 (CLV)

      22 Face to Me and be saved, all the limits of the earth, for I am El, and there is none else."

      23 By Myself I swear. From My mouth fares forth righteousness, and My word shall not be recalled. For to Me shall bow every knee, and every tongue shall acclaim to Elohim."

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      If I didn't comment on that hub, I must have missed it. I thought I read them all. I'll make sure to keep up with your hubs the best I can, if you are at least getting a kick out of our

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Are you kidding? I posted a hub a week ago that is full of scriptures stating that all will be saved. Did you happen to miss that one? "Scriptural Proof That All Will be Saved" or something. By the way, I posted the Rich Man and Lazarus hub for you to read and critique in about 5 minutes (or seconds).

      Excuse me, I have to go blow a lusifer.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      As a result of his rebellion, Lucifer was cast out of Heaven. One third of the angels of heaven were also cast out because of their evil alliance with him. Rev.12:4, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth..."

      I agree that not all who "confess" Jesus is Lord are going to be saved.  Every knee must bow and every tongue confess, but even Satan and his demons know who God is.  They know who Jesus is and TREMBLE (scripture references are Phil 2:10-11 and James 2:19).

      I don't believe anyone can claim a certain number of people will be saved.  I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it states ALL WILL BE SAVED.  Show me that scripture!!  It is His will that ALL should come to repentance [2 Peter 3:9] (a requirement for being saved) and confess Jesus Christ as his/her Lord and Savior.  He says, if you confess Me before men I will confess you before my Father who is in heaven (Matthew 10:32). It also states that whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33). Some WILL DENY CHRIST.  2-1=1.  Obviously, not ALL will be saved.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      2 Peter 1:20 is saying that no scripture can be understood in and of itself. To understand one scripture you must understand the others associated with it. It's not speaking of following the interpretations of one. First of all, there are several who teach many scriptural truths. I find Ray's explanations better than any others. But these truths above were not invented by Ray. Also, Ray did not start a new religion. Boy I hate it when someone says scripture says this and then I see no scripture. At least give me some out of context crap having nothing to do with the subject. (On second thought, spare the misunderstood bible verses). There is no scriptural record of angels rebelling against God and being cast out. Just more churchianity 101. If it's God's will for something to happen then it will happen. Maybe not now, but it will happen. It is blasphamy to say otherwise.

      Isaiah 55:11

      So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My Mouth, it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

      Simple confession? You reduce repentence after judgment to a simple confession? Do you think that you even have an inkling of spiritual knowledge to believe that most of those kneeling will be doing so in a half baked effort to change god's mind so that they won't go to your christian hell?

      And I will bring a third part through. . . ... .What!! do you really think that 1/3 of those living the last 2000 years were Christians? Most of the world had not even heard about Christ until the Europeans decided to invade the entire world. You, like the church, just make up crap as you go along.

    • Carrie Bradshaw profile image

      Carrie Bradshaw 

      9 years ago from Manhattan

      Hell No ~ here I am again...I am reading each and every one of your hubs as you requested.  Let me address the following:

      You stated people have admonished you not to follow the teachings of one man, in this case Ray.  Proverbs 24:6 states, " a multitude of counselors there is safety."  Mormonism is founded on one man ~ Joseph Smith.  The Church of God follows Armstrong....all derrived from ONE MAN's teachings.  In this we must be very cautious. Even the Holy Bible was not written by ONE MAN.

      You quote 2 Peter 1:20 "But know this first of all, that no prophesy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation."  Ray is ONE.  Each of us are ONE person.  Again, in a multitude of counselors, there is safety.

      Addressing this verse and 1 Cor 10:11 ~ balance this with 2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

      Ray's teaching about "saving ALL mankind" is challenged by the following scriptures:

      When God created the angels, He indeed CAST OUT those that rebelled against Him and WILL NOT allow them back into His Kingdom.  Was this His will?  NO.  It is stated that the Lake of Fire is reserved for Satan and all of his followers.

      Look at Matthew 13:24-30 When "evil" came to create tares among the wheat in the field, the landowner was asked if the tares should be uprooted now. The landowner did not want the tares uprooted now because some of the wheat might get entagled in the tares. In verse 30, the landowner (God) says, "Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares (those who reject Christ) and bind them in bundles to burn them up (hell), but gather the wheat (followers of Christ) into my barn."

      God's will is that all should come to repentance, but it doesn't mean ALL WILL come to repentance.  Here's more to back up what I'm stating here:

      2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow about His promise (promised return), as some men count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (this would mean that the possibility of "perishing" is evident), but for all to come to repentance."

      Let me address the "First Fruit" topic now.  Since Christ is the first of the "First Fruits", we are of the "First Fruit" when we receive the FIRST FRUIT, Christ as our Savior. Look at James 1:18 (which you quote in your hub): "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth..." The word "begat" is that meaning "born". John Chapter 3 explains this. We MUST be "born again". Yes, as I stated, it is His WILL that ALL should come to repentance, but not all WILL.

      Yes, "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil 2:8-10), but even Satan himself will confess ~ he knows right now that God is God and that Satan was defeated at Calvary. He and his demons "believe" in God and yet 'TREMBLE'(James 2:19). Simple confession and knowledge of the facts does not save a person or even Satan (and his followers).

      Ephesians 1:10, as you quote it, it sounds like ALL people, believers and non-believers ~ however, it specifically states ALL IN CHRIST (those who have preceded us and those who are still here on earth).  I Thessalonians 4:15 states, "...we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep...and the dead IN CHRIST shall rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall ALWAYS be with the Lord."

      Regarding the "third part" in Ze 13:9, do you ever wonder about the fact that Christianity makes up 1/3 of the world's religions?  "they shall call on my name and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."  AMEN.

    • profile imageAUTHOR

      Hell N0 

      9 years ago

      Wait, did I ask for another blind person to argue God's methods? Did I say God needed to do it this way? No. What I have tried to point out is how an entire system of churchiology can totally miss what has been present in both the OT and NT for almost 2000 years. Why, because God planned it this way and there is a wealth of scripture to prove this. Usually the egnostics and atheists will argue against the bible based on what the established churches of the world scream from the pulpits. But why would the credibility of a blind person increase due to bad arguments of another blind person?

      Let me explain in simple language what God has done. He inspired scripture to be 100% true. He created people carnal and fleshy that will not be able to see the truths of God at this time. He has given a few the holy spirit to grasp some of these truths. Many have been called but few have been chosen. This is how God does it at this time and this is what the scriptures attest to. I cannot prove the authenticity of the scriptures to anyone, nor can I prove to churchianity that they are wrong about a great many things. The only people that will be convinced are those given the holy spirit of Christ.

    • profile image

      issues veritas 

      9 years ago

      You might as well be quoting from Shakespeare.

      I the Old Testament was from divine inspiration then it should have said it all and there would be no need for the New Testament.

      If the reason for the New Testament was for Jesus in the flesh to atone for our sins, then another visit is definitely needed, and I don't mean tribulation.

      People keep quoting the Bibles but it doesn't give validation to it.

      If prophecy was real then there would be no need to play out the rest of life.

      People haven't changed since Cain killed Abel.

      The Angels are only 2/3 with God.

      Angels are not human and they failed God, what can mere humans do.


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