ArtsAutosBooksBusinessEducationEntertainmentFamilyFashionFoodGamesGenderHealthHolidaysHomeHubPagesPersonal FinancePetsPoliticsReligionSportsTechnologyTravel

Sight Required To Believe?

Updated on July 12, 2014

Challenging An Assumption

I read a question earlier today that for some unknown reason compared "God" and "Wind". The poster of the question asked that if people do not believe in god because they cannot see him, why do they believe in wind if they cannot see it?

If I submitted to my inner sarcastic side, I would probably be banned from Hub Pages pretty quickly if I were to voice my true thoughts on this.

First of all, I do not need to see wind in order to know it exists because I can feel it. As it turns out however, I CAN see wind, but only under certain conditions (such as a tornado). I can also see the effects of wind on trees, skyscrapers, grass, etc. Even better, I can create wind myself by flapping my hands or waving a small plate back and forth. So even if I were not able to sometimes see wind, I can still see its effects and can even make some myself, but technically I shouldn't think it exists because I cannot see it. That is akin to saying human beings do not exist to blind people because blind people cannot see anything, even though they can clearly feel and hear other people. Doesn't make much sense does it?


God on the other hand cannot be proven to exist because one cannot feel, see, or speak to god. Speaking to the voice in your head does not constitute having a conversation with god. If you can feel and see god, then other people should have no problem feeling and seeing him as well. Even among believers of the same faith, you are bound to get different experiences of people seeing, feeling, and talking to god. Logic would dictate that god is not a physical being but rather a mental and/or emotional construct that does not physically exist would it not?

The Paradox

One cannot prove that god exists, but one can also not prove that god does not exist either. The answer to "Does god exist" simply cannot be answered at this time. In fact it may never have a definitive answer, so why do people continue to assert that god must obviously exist? Although there seems to be more than enough clues to determine that god does not exist, that cannot be proven either. The answer is simply "I don't know", to say anything other than that is either showing ignorance or arrogance.

Do You Believe In Wind Even If You Cannot See it?

See results

Comments

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    • profile image

      Autumn Sunshine 2 years ago

      You should check out CGP Gallery. Lots of people from Bubblews are moving over to there. It's real cool.

    • profile image

      Autumn Sunshine 2 years ago

      Yes, that is pretty scary.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 2 years ago

      Autumn, maybe im scared that Lybrah is stalking me, considering how she sent me a direct email message, found me on Google +, and said hello to me on my dating profile that i only JUST started using again.

      Could be that, or could be the first reason i gave. Leaning towards the latter, but the former is still pretty scary dont you think?

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 2 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I've seen him around many times. I'm not sure what it says about someone being permanently banned once, creating a second profile that was also permanently banned in short order (against the rules and all) and now a strange "anonymous"commenter who sends to imply or accuse of obsession that Realistically only works the other way around.

    • profile image

      Autumn Sunshine 2 years ago

      What did I confirm for you?

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 2 years ago

      When the majority of people i debate with on here show their inability to even consider viewpoints different from their own, i tend to step away for a bit. This isnt the first time either.

      Also, i was plenty active after she was banned considering how she wasnt even the main person i discussed things with, so i cant really imagine what you are getting at. But you did confirm a few things for me though.

    • profile image

      Autumn Sunshine 2 years ago

      It's suddenly been so quiet around here, Link. Where have you been hiding? Seems like you've not been too active on Hubpages since Lybrah got banned...just saying.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Questions go unanswered, hypocritical assumptions are made, topics are randomly changed, and suddenly no one can be bothered to talk anymore.

      I think I lost track of how many times this has happened in that exact order.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      I'm sorry, I have things to do today. I will get back to you later. :)

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      You just change tactics whenever something contradicts what you assume to be true, don't you? If you're called out on your behavior, it's because you're a sinful human. If you're incorrect about an assumption, you change your assumption to something else. I cannot just choose to be a Christian, any more than you can just choose to not believe in gravity and start flying, or just choose to become a Muslim. Instead of just assuming things, why not educate yourself with an open mind and not with an agenda to criticize or provoke? Wouldn't that be more honest and more in line with what jesus taught?

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      We all have difficult choices in life, some right, some wrong. But, the one basic thing we all have in common is we must live with these choices.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      You think being a gay atheist surrounded by people like you is the easy road? You must be joking.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm done here. Judge me all you want.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Has God spoken to you? You would be better not to know what you know about the Bible. Because you know the way but have refused to believe because of ego. NO. NO ONE has control over me except me. Is this not your feelings? The Bible says we are to STRIVE to be Christ like and we ALL fall short everyday. Those of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our savior that is.

      There is a battle of good and evil going on inside of us. It is truly sad that your knowledge of the Bible is not able to fight off the evil. But, in order to live for Christ you NEED to believe what you have been taught. Why have you chosen the easy road? Because you can feel no guilt in your life for your actions?

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Yes, I know that verse. I asked for verses where Jesus asked his followers to defend him or become angry on his behalf or to belittle those who disagree with them. Is that the best you can do, or ate you going to admit that your behavior is NOT biblical, you just like behaving that way so you don't want to stop? You don't act like this due to Righteous Indignation on your religions behalf. You behave this way because you want to, it defies the tenants of your religion but you do it anyway. That makes you a hypocrite - a do as I say, not as I do Christian. Do you know what jesus said to hypocrites?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Amen to that JT. I'm not going to bother--JM, since you obviously know everything already. You are very learned and rejected Jesus, one day you may regret that decision. It is pretty sad.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Matthew 10:14

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Criticizing and Contradicting something is not an attack, lybrah. No one is putting you in prison, beating you up or forcing you to convert to something else.

      I would expect a messenger of god to be like. ...I dunno. .. jesus? The one who didn't want his disciples using violence to defend him. The one who said to turn the other cheek. Sound familiar? How are you doing with those Bible verses I asked for, Lybrah?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      What would you expect a messenger of God to be like? Someone who allows you to step right over him? Do you expect messengers of God to just sit there and allow you to attack their beliefs?

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Want to take your own advice there, jt? You do not get to control me or anyone else there. Your Hypocrisy knows no bounds whatsoever. If you are the messenger of your God, I'm glad I left him before meeting you.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Julie, just give it up for God's sake. WOW. Talking about holding a grudge! A huge flaw in anyone's character. JUST LET IT GO JULIE. You do not have control over everyone you come in contact with. This is life.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      So, going by your own logic, jt, are we to understand that, in turn, since you keep baiting us and continuing in conversation with us long after you insist that it's a waste of time and that you're done, that you feel threatened and affected by us? I mean that is how your statement works when you apply it equally to all sides, isn't it? Thanks for finally admitting it. It's nice to see some personal growth on your part. Or did you just not think your statements all the way through and thought through special pleading that they only go one way?

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Lybrah, do not worry what these people are saying to you. You hit the nail on the head when you said control! They are all control freaks and feel the need to lash out at us because they KNOW that they have been put in their place and it eats them alive. I mean this stuff really affects their lives. WOW! You know the old saying "If you are not doing something RIGHT, then people will not talk about you." Well, this thread is a prime example of this behavior. Their behavior is astonishing to me just because they feel threatened by US! Especially the one's who lash out the most. No names mentioned here (Not going to sink to that level) YOU know exactly who you are!

      Another thing, who are they to judge anyone? They live as they choose in sin. NONE of them have any right to judge anyone and then rebuke God! Truly amazing one can be so egotistical! This stuff probably keeps them up at night. Apparently everyone else in their lives bows down to them and NEVER challenges their beliefs. Sad, sad situation! Have a great day Lybrah! God bless you always!

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      If she's studied Scripture for years (like I actually have on a collegiate level) then she should be able to provide a verse fairly easily. Or, conversely, she can admit that verse doesn't exist and admit that she's not following Jesus' example or mandates. If she ignores what the founder of her religion says with impunity, then she can't claim superiority over those who don't believe what she does. It's hypocritical - and hilarious.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      She's studied scripture for years and has the holy spirit inside of her to tell her stuffs.

      I feel like one of those might be her answer.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I'm still waiting for biblical teachings where Jesus told you to defend him, rather than loving your enemies, turning the other cheek and repaying evil with good. Or is it because you either don't know because you don't know as much about your own religion as you think you do or -more likely - because there isn't any? Try for honesty, here, since your God despises lies. What did Jesus do when Peter grabbed a sword and whacked someone's ear off when Jesus was being arrested? What did he teach in the sermon on the mount?

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Robert

      She knows very well that he mocks people. She sided with him when he was specifically mocking me about my age and telling me to move out of my parent's basement.

      Lybrah

      You pretty much confirmed that humans have no free will. I applaud you for that.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      You're taking about my hub on someone else's, you know.

      Why don't you prove me wrong, Lybrah. One piece of undeniable evidence. Come on now, surely you can manage that. I can criticize any idea or belief, just like you criticize atheists and homosexuals. Why is it okay for you and not for those who disagree with you. I'm sorry, but someone who says love me or I'll burn you forever is not love. It's coercion. It's spiritual blackmail. Fear may work for you, but it doesn't work on me. Fear is something that is used to control others. You don't fear other hells or gods. As I told you on my hub, when you understand why you do not fear them, you will understand why I don't fear yours.

      Choosing to be offended is a choice - a choice you continually make. That is your problem, not mine or anyone else's.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Just because I have emotions that get riled when people make fun of someone I love does not make me immature. If you don't believe, you simply don't understand--you can't. You are criticizing Jesus, and God, and you are a mere human He created!

      I'm sorry you missed the boat. You are WAY off point in your lies that God is a horrible entity. You compared Him to a mob boss...just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it's not there. I can say I refuse to get burnt when I put my hand on the oven that is set to 400 degrees, but that isn't going to prevent it from being burned when I do. You think you're in control. You are wrong.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I have never denied saying things like that Lybrah, but I have told you several times why I would ever feel the need to say such things. In fact, its on this very hub.

      And thank you for proving that you are blind to how JT acts to some people who disagree with him, some of which are christian themselves. There are plenty of people who think similar things that I do but go about expressing those things in a way I disagree with. Very easy for me not to side with them, even if it is against a "common enemy". You on the other hand are like a dog on a leash every time someone agrees with you, especially if they happen to disagree with someone you disagree with as well.

      Your comments will most likely be denied from now on Lybrah. You seem to have a habit of insulting how and what I write whenever you lack something intelligent to say, whether it be directly or indirectly. Jesus supposedly died for your sins and you get butthurt when people point out that you don't even properly follow his teachings?

      You are a walking contradiction of your very own religion.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      So. ... You have no answer to my question then.

      Religion and belief do not have feelings that can be hurt. If criticizing or mocking a belief hurts your feelings, perhaps you should ask yourself why you choose to take it so personally. Christians say horrible things about atheism all the time. So what? I am not atheism, and ridiculing a lack of belief doesn't affect me. Knock yourself out. There is a big difference between criticizing a belief and criticizing a person, but even do you do not have a right to not be offended. If you're offended by something, it's because you choose to be -and it says a lot about a person's emotional maturity when they insist on taking every criticism personally when they have no problem criticizing others. It's called psychology.

      The Bible says that vengeance belongs to God, and that Christians are to turn the other cheek, repay evil with good and love those who persecute them. Contradicting what you say is not persecuting. Mocking is not persecuting. No one is persecuting you. Deal with it.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      JT doesn't mock people; Link does. Yes, Jesus did preach...and your point is???? It's not acceptable to think that we're going to stand by and let you mock our religion and all it stands for. Don't think for a minute I am going to tolerate it.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Where did Jesus teach that his followers were to defend him by mocking, ridiculing and insulting everyone who contradicted them, exactly? In fact didn't he preach the opposite - to love your enemies, turn the other cheek and to l leave the benevolence to god? Do you think the all powerful god needs your help?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Link, I feel that JT often has to defend himself, as I do, against non-Christians. I don't feel that he is mean, he does not say things like, "you lack comprehension skills," or "you are void of logic." That is the type of stuff you say. And don't tell me I am wrong. Read your comments over to yourself if you don't believe me---maybe you are doing it without realizing it.

      BTW - are those 2 hubs of yours really featured? Surprised.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      You seem to be exhibiting some slight homosexual tendencies JT. Adds a little bit of clarity to your post in the Q&A section.

      You have the key to the closest, just open it and be free!

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Actually laughing out loud linkous. You know, I think you like me. Was it the smile that got you? Or maybe the dimples? :)

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      You realize there are plenty of people on here who simply like to write/interact with others, regardless if they get money...Right?

      I also never said I didn't want to write hubs, the fact that I now have 2 featured hubs should have told you that. I don't expect to get any noticeable income from the stuff I write simply because I do not care to make them the same quality as others I have seen on here. If they get income, whoopee, but I don't care either way.

      And something else I'm sure soared over your head, you realize JT doesn't seem to have written anything in 10 months, yet all he does is condescend and insult others in the Q&A, right? Or is it because he agrees with you that you seem to have just not noticed?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      If you don't want to make money or write hubs, why exactly are you here? To condescend and insult other people for no reason?

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I already went over my "excuse", but reading comprehension on the Internet is lacking it seems.

      I never planned on getting money from hub pages from the start, so I feel absolutely 0 need to shoot out dozens of hubs each month and I feel even less of a need to compete with someone such as yourself.

      Also, I only joined 4 months ago, and started interacting with hub pages around 2 months ago.

      Anything else? I'm sure you have more asinine stuff to gloat about, might as well get it out of your system now.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      It does when they keep putting money in one's pocket. :) Hubpages had gotten quite boring. So, like I said I took a hiatus for almost one year. What's your excuse?

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      JT, are you done measuring your genitals against random people on the Internet? Maybe you can now use your free time to write more hubs? Gloating about hubs 10 months old and up doesn't really mean very much.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Julie... no comment ;)

      Link.... Not worth it!

      Lybrah.... thank you so much my friend. Of course after thinking about this PUBLICITY I chose the other path. Thank you for your comment. God bless you always!

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      JT, That wasn't what I meant by ego, the point of which as usual flew over your head.

      No one's intent here was to decrease your hub traffic. People will still read your stuff regardless. I also couldn't care less how many hubs you have published, since I never really planned on gaining money from hub pages to begin with.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      I think JT was initially mad about seeing his name here, but then he thought about it and came to the new conclusion. To be honest, it's pretty funny.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Which is it? Are you going to report and attempt to ban people for using your name, or are you going to say thank you for the publicity? Can you make up your mind and stick with it, please?

      Also, you missed the most likely answer. .. humor.

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      Check my page link. I have a right to be proud. Maybe you could make some goals looking at my work. And I have deleted around 200 hubs in the last two years and placed them elsewhere. Yes, that is right, 365 hubs in the first year of being here. Then I took a hiatus. You people would love for me to do that again wouldn't you?

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      The ego is rather large in this one

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      LOL.... I am so flattered that something I have said has made me so popular. This tells me several things about the people doing the accusations against me. I have made you think about your own wrong opinions, made you soul search a bit, gotten your attention because someone actually will stand up to you people. Thank you so much for the publicity! Mention my name all you want. This only brings people to my page. So, I must say thank you!!

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Reported for what exactly? Talking?

    • profile image

      JThomp42 3 years ago

      I have no part in this thread! Yet, several have mentioned my name. Mistake! You ALL will be reported and probably banned!

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I love how you are telling me what I think it takes for me to label anyone anything simply because of my specific dislike of you. This is from the same person who says people searching for God are blind idiots if they do not see him. At the very least, you are no different than what you are saying I do, so please stop acting like you are.

      There is no right or wrong questions, the questions I have always asked are incredibly similar to the ones I was asking you about Noah earlier. They address contradictions and overall gaps that rarely anyone of faith attempts to explain when confronted about, just like you were unable to. They either lack knowledge of the event in question or know it makes no sense and say "Because God" as if it explains everything.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Oh Link, it does not take much for you to label someone an idiot. You may ask a question or two, but it takes you a shorter time than you think. Perhaps you are not asking the right questions.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I am sure you have seen my comments, but as you always continue to prove, seeing is not the same as understanding. I am slightly positive we went over this as well but I will recap just in case it was someone else. It takes quite a bit of poking and prodding for me to assume a "You're too stupid" attitude with anyone. If someone cannot understand simple sentences, prove they have no idea what anyone else let alone what I am talking about at any given time and throw insults around because of that, then yes that is the very attitude I will adopt for that person. I have never automatically assumed such a position the very first time speaking to anyone, unless you can point out a specific Instance? I usually end up asking a hundred questions, get insulted or ignored, and then ask more questions.

      Critque

      Thank you for your enlightening comments that have nothing to do with this hub or the Comments.

    • profile image

      La Critique 3 years ago

      Link, why don't you and Lybrah just get a room already?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Basically, you have to explain everything to everybody. I have read some of your responses in the forum and answers to other people and you take a very "I am right and everyone else is stupid and doesn't know how to have a conversation" attitude. But it is YOU who doesn't have any etiquette. I have tried to be nice and civil, but you are incapable of letting anything go, and you are always keeping score.

      When you say you "barely read" something, that leads one to believe you scarcely scanned it. But I was just saying that you had to have spent some time on my page, because of all the posts you wrote in response to things I wrote. Don't assume that English is not my first language just because I didn't get what you were saying. Instead, consider the fact that you weren't clear to begin with. You are not the master of English writing and speaking here, and I am tired of the "You're so stupid" attitude you seem to have.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      "I barely read" is not the same as "I didn't read them". Basic comprehension should have told you that. I freely admitted that I read some of your articles (going to say at max 5).

      I don't think I ever bothered to ask you, but is English your first language? Never considered that possibility the numerous times I have had to explain simple sentences and words to you.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      You barely read my articles on Bubblews? That is not true, since some of your Bubblews post were inspired by things I specifically said. And I never said Satan time travelled; it's just that there was a prophecy that one day a messiah would come to save mankind. Satan knew Jesus was coming, but he didn't know the logistics of the plan. Which is why he was able to imitate it, which is why people say that Jesus's story is the mimic, which exactly what Satan wanted.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Mcbel

      The question I mentioned in the very first sentence of this hub was one I read here on Hubpages. I dont see how I was baiting christians when:

      1. I very clearly stated that I was countering the asinine logic of the original poster of that question.

      2.Even if that wasn't the case, I stated that the existence of god cannot be proved or disproved by anyone as it stands, so what pointless argument was I enticing people to join outside of the imaginary one you made up?

      3. I don't recall singling out the christian god in this hub. When I said "God" I meant any type of god in general.

      As much as it may seem otherwise, I do not actively seek Lybrah out at all. In fact I have asked her to stop talking to me before, to which she agreed to for maybe a few hours? I also requested of her to stop telling me she was praying for me since in every instance she said she was I found it to be condescending. She agreed, then disregarded that at the same time as the other request.

      I dont even recall her leaving a comment on the original question this hub stemmed from, so I am somewhat at a loss as to how she ended up on my hub specifically. She has a habit of popping up on things that I comment on and siding with people who disagree with me. I see hubs and questions posted by her occasionally enough and I browse right on by them. Even on the site she got me kicked from, I barely read any of her articles.

      Lybrah

      -Where in any of our conversations were you trying to help me understand Christianity better? Was it when you were referring to my special seat in hell for not accepting jesus as mankinds savior? Was it when you were defaming me? Silly me, it was obviously when you were calling me a hateful child for pointing out your own shortcomings. Christian teacher of the year.

      -As I recall, my very first interaction with you, and pretty much every instance after that, was asking you questions regarding some very serious gaps in morals of your faith (remember how you advocated the murder/severe punishment of disobedient children? Shocking for a teacher to say...). You either ignored the question, invented some random answer, or ignored my question to then insult me.

      -Even in this very hub when I was questioning you about Noah's Ark, you lacked basic knowledge of the events I would assume most christians would know or at least have the ability to quick reference (it's called Google), so how on earth were you attempting to make me understand your religion better?

      -If I were to use you as the sole reference for every christian on the planet, I would have no choice but to believe that they are all judgmental crazies that condone genocide and have no problem dying for their lord that no one has any concrete proof of outside of warm fuzzy feelings and an outdated book that has similar origins to stories that came several thousand years before, which according to you Satan traveled back in time to mimic the bible for whatever reason you neglected to elaborate on.

    • mcbel profile image

      mcbel 3 years ago from New Hampshire

      Robert, you're now bringing my religion into this. This is not why I commented. My comment was directed toward the author, and I hope he sees that my comments are meant to be helpful from a writers perspective, as I'm not here to argue about religion. I can understand why my comment doesn't seem relevant to you, Robert, because it has nothing to do with you. I was there once.

    • mcbel profile image

      mcbel 3 years ago from New Hampshire

      If I were to contribute to this hub in the manner that you deem useful, I would be arguing for the side of the debate that you think is foolish. I thought this was a short hub that managed to attract a lot of attention. However, much of this attention wound up being negative, and serious shots were taken at other people over a subject that neither side will budge on. As a fellow hubber who supports the productive, engaging platform that is hubpages, I'd like to see Link use his ability to create engaging, noteworthy material in a way that will attract positive, productive conversations. If this were a forum, it would be true that my initial comment would have held no relevance, but this is a hub.

      The fact that I agree with Lybrah should not cause my statements to be considered foolish. I am sure that if I had not stated my opinion on the topic that I would not have been met with such animosity. However, I did not think that briefly acknowledging which side of the argument I stood on would cause someone to miss the point of the other 95% of my comment. I apologize for my lack of clarity on the matter.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      He's not the fool here, Robert

    • mcbel profile image

      mcbel 3 years ago from New Hampshire

      It seems like the two I mentioned actively seek each other out to argue, yet it doesn't seem like a friendly argument, and cannot be helpful to either side. I checked your profile as well. Please don't act territorial on Hubpages when you have written zero hubs.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      @mcbel - I loved your response. Honestly, I was trying to get Link to understand Christianity better, but to no avail. Besides that, I find him to be very cute!

    • mcbel profile image

      mcbel 3 years ago from New Hampshire

      I would more readily call this bait for Christians to get sucked into to a terribly pointless argument than an actual hub. This could not have taken more than ten minutes to write. That being said, you've definitely found quite an efficient way to draw attention to your point of view. I honestly thought these comments would never end.

      The most entertaining part of this hub, BY FAR, was the headlining argument between Link & Lybrah. While I agree with Lybrah in terms of my BELIEF, what I have to say might blow both of your minds. Spend time with people who you enjoy being around. If you are truly a bloodthirsty argument-prone JERK, go outside and tell someone that they're a moron for believing that Fruit Loops are better than Captain Crunch. Then you might be held accountable for the harshness of your words. Who are you helping by having an argument like this if all it leads to is someone getting kicked off writing websites? Seek out people who share your beliefs and enjoy your life. Don't seek out people who you detest on every level of their being.

      Entertaining, yet pointless as a white crayon.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      I am not putting anything into any part of you. I am a Christian, Not a churchian and yes I do know the bible and also lots of other things that history and religion tends to bury. I try to uncover them in my articles.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Lady, I never claimed to know you, so why are you attempting to put words in my mouth? All I said was that you had religious tendencies, whether you had them in the past or continue to have them to this day is irrelevant, you seem to lean towards being religious and you clearly know what you are talking about when it comes to religion. Am I wrong to assume this, based on previous comments and hub titles, some of which I skimmed over, that I have seen from you?

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      If you had just read my titles then you do not know me at all.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Robert, I guessed his trap the moment I read his question. I fully understood what he was trying to do with his first reply to my answer. I tend to bait people myself into revealing how they really act towards people of different mindsets. JThomp says he is open and understanding of other mindsets, yet he mocked and insulted me (directly) and Titen (indirectly) about our ages and others about their atheism, to then turn around say that he didn't when the comments before very clearly show that he has. At that point he sealed his own coffin, not that I think he actually cares.

      As far as Lybrah goes, she has told me in the past that she has vigorously studied Scriptures for years, she went to Catholic school and all and used to be a teacher of small children on some subject or another. Not saying that actually means anything, just something she likely to bring up.

      Lady

      I had meant that I already knew you had religious tendencies from past comments. Just looking at some of the title of your hubs further cements that.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      Link, now why would you ever need to believe anything the JT has said about me. Do your own research. I have a few articles about what I believe. He just likes to play with others and putting himself on a pedestal. I know his "GAMES" and I will not play them anymore.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Robert

      What a coincidence! Lybrah here got me deleted from another writing site altogether a few months back. That was quite the fun time, I was almost disqualified for getting a 60 dollar payment that I needed since a had been out of a job for around 6 months at the time, all because we disagreed on religion.

      I have become more cynical of believers, but I have no doubts that I will continue to give new people that I meet who think like that the benefit of the doubt because I do not know them enough to simply judge them 2 seconds after saying hello. I do know that I could care less about understanding their beliefs now, too much work to get simple questions answered.

      Lady

      As far as I knew, you were a Christian, or more generally a believer. I found it funny that JThomp (to which Lybrah agreed to funnily enough) called you an atheist since I had thought otherwise.

    • Lady Guinevere profile image

      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      I agree 100 percent with Robert The Bruce and all the people that he mentioned. Those people's main focus is to seek and destroy and nothing else.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Christin

      Oh I know, I have run into a few of them on the forums here. Some were actually nice people, although I still found their touch on reality to be incredibly lacking seeing as some justified the genocide caused by the supposed flood, only to say it wasn't genocide because "God". That was a real doozy.

      In fact, me and Lybrah here have a decent enough history on Hub Pages and another writing site. I poke and prod her about her beliefs and ask questions. It gets to the point (maybe within the first question or two?) before she cannot answer properly and starts to rebuff, mock, and insult me. Of course when I finally get fed up and call her on it, I am an immature child that is a bad person and needs to be saved by Jesus.

      Not my words but hers, although I'm sure if she comes back to this hub to reply she will say otherwise. She seems to frequent any posts that I happen to comment on and side with people who are bashing me regardless of how blatantly disrespectful they are being simply because they are either christian or just do not agree with me/others, rather than provide some actual conversation herself.

      Its quite the cycle really. I have become surprisingly more cynical about believers in general, especially after starting up a forum topic.

    • ChristinS profile image

      Christin Sander 3 years ago from Midwest

      Hey Link,

      Welcome to HubPages. You'll find there are certain people here who don't want to debate, they want to argue and fight and be right and look down their noses at everyone who isn't as "special" and "touched by God" as they are. I enjoyed the message of your first hub and agree with your premise that to say one knows what is or isn't is the height of ignorance and arrogance. I find your views to be very mature and you are obviously an introspective and thoughtful being. Don't allow certain people to bait you - they get off on it. (I know how hard it is I succumb to it too at times).

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      You could have chose a better way to convey your sense of humor Lybrah, since "Satan is behind it" has pretty much been your default for almost everything I questioned you about.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      No, I got your point. It's hard to convey a sense of humor on the internet, though ;D

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Hate to break it to you, but that pink unicorn is actually Satan disguised. And teletubbies are cute!

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Okay, Link, fine, I will admit it. I do not know, but I will check into it. You brought up some good points. I want to believe that this is true, because my relationship with God is everything.

      But just so you know, in the OT it says that people lived for hundreds of years before God decided that they wouldn't live past 120 and made the cut-off. So Noah was hundreds of years old and thus had many, many children.

      And I think that other religions came about because the devil was still at work, trying to lead people away from God. And everyone has free will. That is what I know.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I do love how you did not seem to confirm or deny that mankind as we know it today is the result of incest.

      I wouldnt be the first person to talk to when it comes to genetics and or/genealogy, but are you for real right now?

      Pretend that me and one other woman are the only people on earth. Pretend I am asian. Say that the other woman is asian also and we had oodles and oodles of kids together. Say that those oodles of kids moved to different parts of the world and repopulated. Well to repopulate, those ASIAN kids would have had to mate with EACH OTHER.

      So please tell me how the hell you can go from being asian to being black, white etc when the only people in the world repopulating are not only related to each other but are all asian? And to say that their appearances changed over time would fall along the lines of evolution, which I can't remember if you actually believe in or not.

      Another glaringly obvious flaw with Noah's family repopulating the earth is how did a bunch of other religions spring up if his family was the one chosen by GOD to remain alive? I would assume that a bunch of guys who live to be over 100 because of god would damn well make sure their offspring worship a deity that can extend their life spans and make them happy overall since they supposedly had proof of god's power at the time.

      My problem with all of this is that instead of admitting that there are very obvious flaws and that you dont know, you try to explain them away with excuses that are void of any logic what so ever but still expect me or others to think its all true. Yet you are continually at a lost as to why I and others get annoyed by people like that.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      It is possible that we are all from one common descendant. As Noah's family grew, they spread out to different parts of the world and their appearances changed over time.

      With God anything is possible, so the women could have endured.

      And the seashells I am talking about were found embedded in rock, there were prints of prehistoric sea creatures. They were fossils--not brought up by birds, though obviously prey was taken back to nests, so you are correct in saying that last part.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I do hope you realize that if Noah and his family were the ones to repopulate the earth, then we are all incest babies right? Lets forget that for one moment, the flawed logic with Noah and his family repopulating the earth is that one: the women would not be able to handle that kind of stress since it was gods own decision to have women experience immense pain during child birth. You really think just a few women can birth millions of babies? Two: each member of the family (I saw someone say there were 8?) would have to have been a different ethnicity, otherwise how would we have black people, asian people, white people etc? The same thing can be said for Adam and Eve.

      And unless those seashells were the size of boulders and the size of the sea animals were on par with sharks and whales, no that is not proof of a world wide flood. Birds, who naturally live in high places, take their prey back to the nest to feed/build their nest.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Okay then. So it must be that Noah and his family repopulated the earth. I am glad you checked it out with a bible. Continue to read it. And I do read your comments. Again, our religion is based on faith alone. I can't prove to you that Noah's flood happened, but I have faith that it did. I saw something on the History channel or National Geographic a while back where people found seashells and fossils of sea animals on high mountains, it was interesting. Perhaps that is proof.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I don't know why you seem to be under the impression that I wasn't reading from an online version of the Bible, but I will go scout my house for a bible to match it up. I dont expect you to remember every single thing about the Bible, but I would expect you to brush up on a topic you are so keen to defend. Otherwise you would know that the flood covered the tallest of mountains and wiped out all life outside of Noah, his family, and the animals on the ark and that the flood lasted for at least 200 days if not a year.

      Also, it has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I can count on one hand how many people actually answered the forum question, probably half that number felt it needed to exist, and half of THAT number gave absolutely no reason for it to exist outside of "Because God exists". I had no problem with the people who were for religion provided they didn't assume for an absolute fact that THEIR religion exists because THEIR God exists with nothing to back it up. You would know that had you actually read my comments to those people (one of which was fairly recently) instead of assuming garbage as always.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      I see that someone finally "answered" your forum question and gave you the answer you wanted to hear. All this time, you were just looking for someone to agree with you.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Link, I may not be an expert. I am currently studying scripture and learning new things all of the time. The bible is not the sort of book you read once and that's it. You can read it a hundred times and learn something new each time.

      Just because you google something, doesn't mean the person on the other end who typed it up was not making it up. Go to the source--the bible, for information and not Google.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      I dont know if I should find it amusing or sad that you do not seem to know the very story you are defending very well if at all.

      I barely knew any of it at all until I did a simple google search.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      By making boats and climbing up the highest mountains. Or hanging on to anything that could float.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      And how were they able to survive a world wide flood?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      There were other survivors of the flood. Anyone who would have listened to Noah's warnings would have survived. It wasn't just Noah's family.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Ah, of course. Obviously children, babies, and unborn babies were all so wickedly evil that they had to be eradicated from the planet completely due to the evil of others.

      Stupid question, but where did all the other humans of today come from if Noah and his family were the only human survivors of the flood?

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Well, Link, if you must know, I leave it up to God to be the supreme judge over everyone's hearts. If He knew what was in each person's heart, and each person was wicked, it is His decision to do with His creation whatever He wants. Who are you to question the almighty God? We need to assume that ALL people were evil. We have to assume that. Except of course, Noah and his family.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      So you also condone genocide? Neat to know.

      Can't say I am all too surprised about that.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      The conversation was just starting to get really good, too.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Did you report me last night? I am banned from the forum for a little while, and cannot come to Cat's aid. You guys are just tag-teaming her and she is absolutely right--everything she says.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Dont be Poppyr, I only really consider there to be 4 comments on this hub, yours included.

      I also have half a mind to just delete Lybrah's comments completely from this hub, and in turn mine.

    • poppyr profile image

      Poppy 3 years ago from Tokyo, Japan

      Great article - I've never seen so many comments before on a first article. I admit I'm a little jealous.

      You make great points (I said the same thing on the question about being able to see a tornado). Nice first article, keep it up!

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Clearly, because eternal happiness in heaven with all my loved ones sounds much worse than eternity in hellfire with the worst people on the planet.

      Makes sense.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Link, God does not send people to hell. They send themselves. They make the decision to go.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      He wont forsake you unless you deny his existence due to lack of proof. Even though god must know this, he still has no qualms throwing people down to hell after death.

      And the cycle void of logic continues...

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Seriously, if you ask for Him, He is not going to forsake you, He loves you. But you have to be open and you have to be real.

      If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart...very important.

    • Link10103 profile image
      Author

      Link10103 3 years ago

      Really now? Interesting...