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The Christian god is horrible

Updated on March 27, 2015

The Christian god's powers


God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)

God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)

God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)

These Christian facts were gathered from http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/qt/biblefactsgod.htm

The Christian god

There are many things that are claimed by Christians about their god, but three of the claims made by Christians that I find the most troubling are to the right of this section.

And really, those are the only critical attributes that are claimed to be possessed by the Christian god. Everything else it does relates to one of those three main "superpowers." With a being with these powers, I would think that this god would be a force for all good, but unfortunately that bible tells a different story. The bible tells a story of a vengeful, jealous, and wasteful god.

If only the Christian god could do helpful things like ending world hunger, create peace throughout the world, or put a stop to diseases.

These facts should be concerning for Christians

Let's assume the Christian god is real and existing. Even though its existence is one of the most unlikely things to be true.

107,602,707,791 is an estimate of how many people have lived on the earth. It doesn't particularly matter what the exact number is, all that is important to know is that a lof of people, as we know them, today have lived and have died.

God has allowed an astronomical amount of people to die. Being that God is all-powerful, it would seem to me that he would have the power to allow this to not happen. But in a way, it's probably a good thing or we would up to our noses in people. Of course, he could also control the population of people or make the world bigger, whatever he wanted to do. Infinite power breeds infinite solutions.

Aside from the large number of people that have lived and died, think about the variety of ways they have died. Famine, disease, murder, etc. etc. God has the ability to prevent all those various forms of death. And has the power to prevent any form of painful death. There's an infinite number of unpleasant ways to do that are allowed by "God."

So here we have God, all-knowing, powerful, and present everywhere that chooses to let people die and let them die in terrible ways.

Why is this troubling?

Being the Christian god, it would seem to possess the inherent and unique ability to make a perfect world, free from suffering and pain. Free from anything bad. It has the ability to give everyone the perfect life. Yet, this is far the case. In fact, God does quite the opposite for a lot of people. Many people have miserable lives.

Let's say, I'm an experienced medical doctor walking down a sidewalk in a deserted street except for three people. I watched person A shoot person B and then leave the scene without doing anything, I would propose to say observing this would be an immoral and downright terrible thing to do on my part. I would hope any other person reading this would agree with the immorality of that hypothetical person and situation

But this is the real kicker, God does this everyday, not just for one person, but for EVERY person EVERYWHERE and has been doing it since the beginning of time. He is the single worst "person" ever to exist. Nobody can even come close. People like Hitler and Stalin are merely amateurs when it comes to the "amazing" things God can and does do.

I find would find it scary if this kind of god could exist, that people believe in this kind of god, and worship it. But thankfully, that isn't the case. No such deity exists.

Do most Christians believe in this type of god?

I would say that most people don't believe in such a terrible being as the biblical god. Most people probably don't think about the implications that the bible suggests for their god, so they make up their own definition of "God:"

This is a problem because if a person strays from the biblical definition of God, they aren't truly a Christian. At least the type of Christian that believes in the bible. Yet, they will still claim to be a Christian. A contradiction that many people are seemingly at complete easy living in.

But someone could argue that they could pick and choose the various parts of the bible they don't like and then choose to not follow those things, only following the things they view as moral. And this I hope they do, but it means they are an atheist to the classical god of the bible and of the traditional Christian faith.

There are a lot of people who have decent morals and don't follow the teachings of the bible, but that would make them a new and different sect of the Christian religion.

God isn't moral

It's simple. If the the biblical god existed, it would be a moral entity. A god that doesn't treat people well and treats them quite badly, in a lot of cases, and who has the ability to end suffering instantly, isn't a moral being.

People who take the entire bible literally for their morals, should be considered to be a terrible person. They would support not giving gay people equality, having slaves, treating women like second class citizens, and endorse the conditionally love promoted their god.

"Here's free will. Now love me, or I will punish you forever!"-God

If I were a being that had all this awesome power, I would be an amazing god. I would make a perfect world with no suffering of any kind. One where every single person lived full lives doing exactly what they wanted to do. But maybe that's just a fantastical dream that could never happen. Then again, if I was an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent being, I would be able to do anything I wanted to do.

Wikipedia on "intelligent design"

"Intelligent design (ID) is the pseudoscientific view that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection." Educators, philosophers, and the scientific community have demonstrated that ID is a religious argument, a form of creationism which lacks empirical support and offers no tenable hypotheses." wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

We were designed?

I shudder at the thought that a god designed the universe and everything in it, including us. Calling it intelligent design would be an inaccurate way to describe "His Work" because we most certainly weren't intelligently designed.

I'll call it the more accurate term of Creationism. Calling it intelligent design is an insult to the word intelligence.

Disease, illnesses, and acne are things I wouldn't think of creating. They serve no positive purpose. It would seem inefficient to create flaws in one's own work when they have the power of creating perfection.

It would be like designing a pillow with rock-like lumps in it.

The very nature of those things existing would suggest that if a god were to exist it would be at the very least a bad creator and at the very most, a sadistic and evil being.

Even things like wiping our butt seem inefficient. It would be a lot easier to just go and that's it. Society has it a lot easier now with toilets and toilet paper, but it must have been a lot more of hassle back before those things were around.

So if we were created by the all-powerful god, it didn't do a very good job of it all. It leaves a lot to be desired.

Should people worship the biblical god?

My suggestion is that no one worships this terrible being. If you are so inclined to believe in any type of amazingly improbably being, make it one who is actually moral.

What do you all think of my assessment of the Christian god?

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    • thunkfulthinker profile image
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      Jim 2 years ago from Ohio

      Moral Man,

      Either way, seek medical help.

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I agree with you that the Bible God is monumentally, unimaginably cruel. Any being who creates stonefish, centipedes, ebola, cancer, tooth decay, hurricanes, tsunamis, and a fiery hell is a cruel, sadistic, insane monster whose cruelty is beyond imagining. Just read my previous comments here on this site and read my comments on Yahweh is evil/Titen-sxull/hubpages.The Bible God is a bona fide Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with a split personality. Religious folks see Dr. Jekyll, but they don't see Mr. Hyde. They don't see the cruel, malevolent, insane, destructive side of the God they worship, or they defend it, justify it, and execuse it. Really Christians? An all good, all mighty, all wise, loving, caring, merciful, rational, sane, sovereign creator God has to create, has to have, and has to allow eons of evil, sin, suffering, and death, and has to allow Satan and demons the power and freedom to corrupt, torment, and ruin His creation? I think we have a problem here. Theres no fathomable way God can be all these wonderful things at the same time when the world is a hellhole and miserable sack of crap.

      I pointed out in other sites and on this site about the monstrous teaching of hell as described by Mary Baxter, Bill Wiese, and David J. Stewart. According to these Fundie Christians, billions of people are doomed to be tortured forever by fire, worms, a sewer like stench, giant snakes and giant spiders, being mutilated and sliced by demons, and being buried alive inside a claustrophobic, coffin like, furnace like, incinerator like environment. The sick demented preacher David J. Stewart says that hell is a claustrophobic place and victims will suffer FOREVER claustrophobia as they burn in fire at the same time. Imagine being buried alive forever inside a closed coffin? Its BEYOND MONSTROUS. And imagine burning in fire forever and imagine suffocating forever. Suffocation or inability to breathe is also one of the tortures. Its CRIMINAL SADISTIC DIABOLICAL FIENDISH CRUELTY vastly, infinitely worse than any horror movie. What kind of sick, sadistic monster does this? What kind of criminal does this? Its a God who is as cruel as the Devil who is supposed to be His enemy. This disgusting teaching of hell is going to drive me in a lunatic hospital. I live in fear day and night. It makes death a lot worse and a lot scarier, and is a fate worse than death. It also makes Jesus Christ's sacrifice largely a failure if more people are ending up in hell than heaven and its a win for Satan. There are more merciful, humane, and more intelligent and constructive ways to punish human sin than this which are open to God. Theres a difference and theres a line between just punishment and monstrous, sadistic, inhuman, unimaginable torture and horror, and this God doesn't know the difference and crosses the line. We worship a nasty monster.

      I disagree that these voices are just in my head and that demons don't actually exist. Actually no one really knows. It can't be proven true and it can't be disproven either. Clairaudience isn't the same thing as imagining to hear voices. Maybe I have this psychic gift of being able to communicate with other dimensional beings. I cannot do this while Im awake and I cannot do this at will. It seems the voices choose if and when to communicate with me when Im sleeping. I don't choose to hear the voices, but the voices choose to make themselves heard. Since these experiences have been bad, scary, and Satanic or demonic for 90 percent of the time, which forces me to react defensively and out of fear, I end up cursing at and insulting the voices to go away. Im not turning into a Satanist and Im not throwing my soul away in away just because these voices entice me to join them. Nothing is worth giving up one's soul. Satan and demons are like dishonest politicians or used car salesmaen. They will tell you how attractive they are but they may not tell you the other side of the coin. The other side of the coin is making sacrifices to Satan and ending up in hell. Its not worth it. I tell these Satanic/demonic voices to go away and it works. Unfortunately they come back and harass me now and then. They are tenacious and don't give up easily and they look for our weak points and our vulnerabilities. I may have schizophrenia and I certainly have mental illness, but these voices may also be real and not imagined. The answer is that we don't really know.

    • thunkfulthinker profile image
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      Jim 2 years ago from Ohio

      Paladin,

      Thanks for the kind words

    • Paladin_ profile image

      Paladin_ 2 years ago from Michigan, USA

      Thinker, I like your style. I only hope that Lybrah hasn't given up on interacting with us. She did come on pretty strong, so strong responses should be expected -- but to be fair, it was probably pretty hard for her to read all these horrible things about the god she worships.

      Sadly, the things you mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. The God described in the Old Testament AND the New Testament is a sadistic monster so monumentally cruel that it's difficult to even BEGIN to grasp it -- even with human monsters like Stalin and Hitler as a reference. He makes human megalomaniacs and sadistic tyrants seem like pikers.

      And Moral Man -- I know I'm late to this discussion, and I wish I had some beneficial advice to give you. You say you've already been seeing professional therapists for a long time now, which is certainly the best advice anyone could give. Still, it sounds as if you need better therapists.

      In any case, not being a professional counselor or therapist, all I can suggest is that contemplate the old adage that "knowledge is the antidote to fear." Educate yourself about these so-called "demons" that you believe are tormenting you, and once you discover that they don't actually exist, and that these voices are only in your head, you may at least find some clarity, if not peace.

      I wish you the best.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - are you aware that schizophrenia and Parkinson's Disease are flip sides of the same coin? Schizophrenia is too much dopamine and / or not enough acetylcholine. Parkinson's is too much acetylcholine and / or not enough dopamine. As a result, it is common for those who suffer from one disease can wind up with the other. These factors are also often hereditary.

      The reason most people aren't afflicted with demon possession is because they don't have the chemical imbalance in their brains. That's all it is.

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Of course if demons were real they would afflict everyone and not just me. Maybe theres a reason why demons don't afflict everyone. Maybe theres a power of good that prevents them from attacking everyone, or maybe the demons themselves have limited power. Im just speculating. As I wrote on Titen-sxull's site, Yahweh is evil, read the books American Exorcism by author Michael Cuneo, and read the book and see the movie The Rite. Hostage to the Devil is a book by author Malachi Martin. There is the case of Annelise-Michel of Germany who died by starvation and exhaustion in 1976 at age 23. She was a devout Christian and yet she was afflicted with either demonic possession or severe mental disturbance for the last two years of her life. She starved herself, ate flies and spiders(gross), behaved like an angry cat. Its a disgusting, repulsive, loathsome story. Real exorcists and priests were sent to help her and they failed utterly to save her. The exorcism dragged on for some 10 months and still failed to save her. The biggest failures here are God and Jesus. Jesus promised us that we would have power to cast out demons. Where then was Jesus during the 1970s when Annelise-Michel was suffering and dying? Why didn't Jesus save her? Where had God been then? Its embarrassing. And I point out again that this was a devout Christian girl. So much for divine protection, and so much for divine healing, and so much for a caring, loving, all mighty God. This God is a joke, a deadbeat, an absentee landlord. The loathsome story of Annelise-Michel was made into a movie, The Exorcism of Emily Rose which was loosely based on the real story.In my case, its not demonic possession but its demonic obsession Im suffering from. Im being harassed by demons and they are communicating with me during sleep but they have failed to possess me because I have resisted them and I have not let them. Remember what the voice said to me just a month ago, "Let me enter you." I did not let it enter me. I shudder to think what would happen if I didn't resist and allowed these entities to take over me. Demonic possession of the victim's mind and body can only happen if the person allows or consents for it to happen. In my case I have been strong and I have resisted and I have told these voices to get lost and don't bother me. So while they continue harassing me, they are unable to possess me. I think we can be thankful that these entities arent more dangerous and arent more powerful than this. So while we can mourn that there is no being who is all good, all mighty, and all wise, by the same token we can be thankful and happy that there is no all evil, all mighty, all wise Devil/demon. The world is a mix of good and evil and a mix of happiness and suffering. It seems that just as God is limited, so too are the Devil and demons also limited.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man- schizophrenia is not easy to treat. You and your doctors need to keep trying until you achieve the right chemical balance! If demons were real, they would afflict everyone, not just you.

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I have been seeing therapists for 24 years and have taken medicine for almost as long. My therapists think its just my mind playing tricks on me and since these voices are happening only when I sleep and these hallucinations are happening only after I wake, they dismiss it as nothing to worry about. Therapists certainly don't believe in the supernatural and don't believe in demons. Im tired now and will write later. For now, please go back to the following sites; Yahweh is evil/hubpages/Titen-sxull, Hearing Voices/Hubpages/Velveetine, and Dangerso of Astral Projection/Hubpages for more details. Demons and Satan can target anyone, whether schizophrenic, the mentally ill, or normal people. That's all for now.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - this sounds like schizophrenia. You need medical help. PLEASE see a doctor!

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      Unfortunately I can't relax. Just last night while sleeping I had another nightmare of the Satanic/demonic kind. See hubsite, "Yahweh is evil" by Titen-sxull, and see the hubsites, "Hearing voices by Velveteene, and Dangers of Astral Projection/hubpages, where I talk about my experiences as anonymous and as Moral Man. I wont get into it in detail here but will say that Ive been tormented by frequent nightmares since late 1990, and I have been hearing voices while sleeping(clairaudience) since April 2004. Most if not all of these voices have been Satanic/demonic in nature and in motivation. While sleeping one night in 2005, i heard a a group of voices sout in unison, "You belong to Satan", and on another occasion while sleeping in 2005, a single male voice said the name Anton Lavey and the year 1960 and tried to convert me into Satanism. In May 2014, while sleeping, I see a group of words written in an unknown language or unknown code. Only one word was written which I could read, it read Saturn in English. I was soon to discover that Saturn is one of many names for Satan. Just a few weeks ago, in December 2014, while sleeping, a single male voice said, "You're brilliant. We can use you. Let me enter you. Deep down inside, you want us." I instinctively knew its another Satanic attack and I cursed at the voice to go away. This angered it. It said,"Just wait until you die." So now its threatening me because I wont join him. And if I join him, I would end up in hell anyway. Being a Satanist is a direct kne way ticket to hell so who does he think he's fooling with his threat? What is he going to do to me after I die? Torture me in hell? Was this Satan or a demon I was conversing with? Needless to say, Im scared. And now, just last night, I have a nightmare where I see the blurry faces of people and I see dark shadows swirl all around me. Shadow people? I try to scream, I try to move, I try to wake up, and then I see my blanket move in front of me. Am I now hallucinating? Is this a poltergeist? I think Satan and demons or some evil entities are after me and harassing me. I think both the Bible God and Satan are jerkasses. Both if them desire our worship and neither one is fit to worship. They are both selfish, egomaniacal, narcicisstic, immoral, amoral, insane, cruel bastards. I feel as if Im stuck in the middle of this stupid, insane, immoral feud between God and Satan. Well Im not Job and Im not Jesus and I don't want to play their stupid game. Im not a pawn and I refuse to be toyed with in this manner. LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. Im not on God's side, and Im not on Satan's side. We have a cruel, insane God on one hand and a cruel,insane angel/Satan, on the other hand. I want them both to leave me alone. I don't want to be a part of their insanity, immorality, cruelty, stupidity. All I see are two big egos warring with each other. They are both jerkasses. Even if God and Satan are real, neither one is fit to worship. I have yet to discover a supernatural being who is morally good, kind, loving, caring, sane and one I can trust and respect. The Bible God and his Satan archenemy don't deserve our worship and don't deserve our love. Moral monstrosity describes these two. Both God and Satan have ruined and trashed the creation. I turn my back on both of them.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - the vast majority of Christians in the world today were born and raised in the religion. According to Christianity, civilization is 6000 years old. Yet, Christianity is barely 2000 years old. What did people do with their belief systems in the preceding 400o years? (That's assuming civilization isn't much older than that.)

      Check out this article on modern day thinking regarding religions in general:

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essay...

      Here's something to think about regarding diseases. The Bible is full of stories of miracle cures regarding leprosy. Obviously, these stories stem from a longing for healing from this terrible, incurable scourge. To this day, people use the term, "avoid it like leprosy". The true cause and cure was discovered in 1873, by a human being named Dr. Hansen. Today, leprosy - now called Hansen's Disease - has been virtually eradicated.

      Ultimately, we all are presented with these challenges, and it is up to us humans to find ways to deal with them. Cosmic Santa Clauses and Hitlers are merely a figment of human imagination, and attempts to explain the unexplainable.

      RELAX!!!

    • profile image

      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I have had Christianity so ingrained within me that I cannot shake it off, as much as I disagree with it and as much as it angers me and disgusts me and embarrasses me. My grandmother on my mother's side is or was a heavy duty Fundie Christian who duped me at a young age(from 5 to 15 years old) that the Bible is infallible, inerrant, absolutely true in every word, and its God is all good and loving. I believed this until I was about 26 years old. It suddenly dawned on me that all this violence, carnage, killing, death, animal sacrifices, and the irresponsible encouragement of overpopulating the world with humans, isn't so moral, isn't so loving, isn't so wise. The Bible God was believed to have created all things in Nature and as such, was a personification of Nature with all its contrasts, contradictions, opposites, and extremes. In my Fundamentalist mentality, I didn't see the cruelty and immorality of diseases, predation, violence, centipedes, jellyfish, hurricanes, tsunamis until I turned 25 to 26 years old. It then dawned on me that Nature has a Jekyll and Hyde personality as does each human being, so maybe whoever or whatever created Nature and us humans also has Jekyll and Hyde personality or split personality or bipolar personality. Yahweh is the original Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is what I discovered. See or google the following titles on the Internet: "Yahweh the two faced God," "God and Evil," by H.J. Mccloskey, "Evolution and the problem of Evil," by Cornelius Hunter, "Satanic Insects," "The Birth of Satan," Satan and the origin of evil," "Millions of years of suffering and death," "The Devil-perceptions of evil from antiquity to primitive Christianity," by Jeffrey Burton Russell, "Natural evil and animal suffering," "What bugged the Dinosaurs?" "Paleopathology-the study of ancient suffering in prehistoric times, "Why did God create centipedes, scorpions, snakes, spiders, ticks, mosquitoes?" "God and the 2004 Tsunami in Indonesia," "God and the 2005 New Orleans Hurricane," "Did Satan create centipedes?" "Did demons create disease?" "Did demons create venomous animal pests such as scorpions?"

      Over the years my Christian faith has eroded as you can see by reading my comments. But who weakened it? This irresponsible, immoral, amoral God weakened it. The cruelties, defects, screwups, and horrors are so numerous I could write a thick book about this depressing subject. Yes its true that more lives are being saved today by improved medical care and Im thankful for that, but the sad fact is, that cancer, heart disease, ebola, and malaria continue to torture and kill countless people and animals every day of every year that goes by. A starving child dies every few minutes every day. Tropical countries suffer from unclean, polluted water, dangerous insects and dangerous arthropods such as spiders, scorpions, and centipedes, venomous snakes, giant constricting snakes such as pythons, boas, and anacondas, which are so incredibly powerful they can kill and eat leopards, antelopes, crocodiles, and human beings, and the usual scourges of malaria, yellow fever, sleeping sickness, ebola, cholera, dysentery, dengue fever. My poor father contracted dengue fever from a mosquito bite some 65 years ago before I was born. Malaria continues to kill from 1 million to 2 million people a year in the tropics, and warm blooded animals also suffer and die from malaria..

      Some truly horrible animals which either a sick God created or which the Devil or a demon created are the following:Centipedes, of which the worst is the Solomon Island Centipede whose venomous bite is indescribably painful, and lasts for days to weeks. Its been described as a shotgun blast, broken bones, and being set on fire. The Orange Baboon Tarantula of Africa is a very nasty tempered spider which raises its fangs and strikes when touched. This Devilsih arachnid has a venomous bite so painful it ranks as one of the worst pains known to man. It can't kill a healthy adult person but it may make the victim wish for death. How horrible is it? A woman victim said its worse than giving childbirth, and other sources say its worse than a rattlesnake bite! One victim said it felt like his whole arm was being crushed by a truck and set on fire at the same time. It hurts like HELL I have to ask, what kind of sick, disturbed God creates such horrible monsters? Whoever or whatever created this world made an awful lot of torture, violence, carnage, gore, killing, death, execrement, degeneracy, decay. Its more than embarrassing. The creator is an immoral, amoral monster.

      As horrible as much of Nature is, nothing in Nature is as horrible as a vile human being. Natural evil is amoral evil, or blind evil, while Human evil, or Moral evil, is seeing evil. Natural evil is a big threat to my Christian faith, but Moral evil or human evil is worse. Here where I live, selfishness, sociopathy, cruelty, stupidity, and degeneracy abounds, especially on roads and highways from motor vehicles. Road rage and reckless driving are among the evils here. I have had degenerates and idiots yell at me, curse at me, spit at me, and strike my car over stupid traffic disputes or for stupid reasons such as not going fast enough, or because I passed them, or because Im in their way, or for no reason at all. The slightest mistake is an execuse to be rude. These people are horribly evil and lower than toilet bacteria. Why does God allow these evil scum harassing and endangering the lives of decent folks? Then again, why ask an intelligent question to a stupid God? Why ask a reasonable question to an unreasoning God? Is the free will of idiots, criminals, and degenerates more important to this God? What about the free will of us good decent folks who don't want to be harassed and who don't want to fight and who don't want to get injured over stupid traffic disputes? What about the rights of us good decent folks? All too often in this world, free will favors evil and the good people suffer and die and good, innocent animals suffer and die, and such are God's ways in running His creation. Well its a misrun, mismanaged creation. So evil and suffering abounds and the Devil flourishes and we have a God who allows it.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - SO SORRY for the trials your family are going through! A family in my Seattle church had similar experiences. The father had been a minister, but was screwed out of his position by an extremely corrupt Conference President. He started his own business cleaning floors in malls, but developed an allergy to the chemicals. The mother was a nurse, but Lupus put an end to that career, and she had to go on disability in her 40s. They could not put their 3 daughters through college, under these circumstances. The middle daughter married a psycho who abandoned her with 2 babies. She had a job in a posh grocery store, but they fired her when they discovered she was pregnant with the first one. So she had to move back in with her parents. At that time, her father was bouncing around on $10 an hour temp jobs.

      The entire family is stricken with chronic illness - all except the youngest daughter. As a result, she is an agnostic, because it makes no sense to her a loving God would create such a mess. The mother told me this last June, when we spoke. I told her my experience in the cult, and the ensuing flashbacks, have led me to become an agnostic myself. It didn't surprise her.

      Now, Moral Man, here's something for you to consider. You keep bashing the Christian God. What if He wasn't real? What if the Abrahamic faiths were simply a Middle Eastern way of coping, and explaining how the world works? After all, the Hindu-based and Far East Asian religions are vastly different.

      The scourges you mention - man has found cures for many diseases, and ways to deal with insects. My brother's wife's mother suffered a hemorrhagic stroke in 2004. The doctors were able to restore her practically to her former state; the only difference was a slightly weaker left side. Modern science has come a long way. She passed away peacefully 4 years later. As for insects - in Africa, when army ants invade a village, the residents simply pack up their things and move. After the army ants have eaten all the wastes, they return to a nice clean environment. They found a way for pests to serve a purpose. By the way, they have their own indigenous religion that works quite well for them.

      Since Yahweh is so horrible, quit focusing on Him. Perhaps then you can find ways for your family to deal with their troubles.

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      Moral Man 2 years ago

      I don't think theres enough space and enough energy for me to express my anger and disgust with this Bible God and with His screwed up world He created or rather miscreated. I pointed out before the cruelty, defects, and repulsiveness of Nature. Let me add a few more things. My family is afflicted with physical health problems and mental health problems such as heart disease, stroke, OCD, depression, mental illness, and incompetence. My mother suffered for years from migraine headache and had a near fatal stroke. My father suffered from dengue fever from a mosquito bite, kidney stone, heart attacks, anginas, toothache, hernia, and a stroke. He passed away from heart failure in 2011. The stroke took away 90 percent of his speech and all he could utter was gibberish. He became violent and angry as well as frustrated. In and out of hospitals. In the last weeks of his life he needed a cathether, urine bags, diapers, a hospital bed, an oxygen machine, and nurses round the clock. Our house turner into a hospital. He would scream and writhe in agony. He was suffocating to death in front of our eyes. Just looking back at this makes my blood boil in anger. The whole spring and summer of 2011 was spent at hospitals and funeral homes/cemeteries. While other people were enjoying life and traveling, me and my family were suffering in the very pits of hell. Its like being in a damn horror movie. While at the hospital, I witnessed other victims of disease, injury, and aging, and witnessed groaning, execrement, vomiting. What kind of God allows this hell? Is this a loving God? How can a loving God get it so wrong? When is this God going to repent FOR HIS SINS? If He created us with all our bodily defects and mental defects, then sickness, disease, mental illness, aging and death are HIS OWN STUPID FAULT. This God is THE BIGGEST SINNER AND THE BIGGEST CRIMINAL OF ALL. Heart disease, stroke, aneurysm, malaria, tooth decay, execrement, ticks, fleas, lice, mosquitoes, centipedes, tapeworms, stonefish(a venomous fish with an unimaginably painful sting which causes its victims to scream and writhe in agony), screw worm flies, hurricanes, tsunamis and the list of cruelties, horrors, and embarrassments continues. Nature has an infinite number of cruelties to torture and kill man and beast alike. I would expect the Devil or demons to create such horrors as centipedes, heart disease, and malaria. Look at the cruel disgusting atrocious cruelty called ebola. This scourge from Africa has reached America and the UK. It afflicts both humans and warm-blooded animals and causes its victims headaches, painful coughing fits, vomiting, and external bleeding from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears, and anus, leaving the victim in a pile of blood, vomit, and execrement. Its a CRIME which Nature inflicts on its creatures. Could the work of a demon be much worse than this? Disgusting, despicable disgrace. This God EXPECTS us all to suffer and die by one horrible means or another and we arent allowed to complain. This deeply sick God may actually expect us to thank Him and praise Him for inflicting or for allowing us to be tortured. What kind of sick, perverted garbage is this? Look what happened to Job to satisfy this God's ego. He allowed this Satan character to torture Job to test Job's faith. "I'll let Satan torture you more. Do you still love me Job? " This God is deeply sick and needs serious psychiatric help. The Gnostics call the Bible God the DEMIURGE who is a flawed being who created this screwed up world.

      Read the novel Lord of the Flies or see the movie if you can stomach it. The only thing I like about is the lush tropical scenery which nonetheless is spoiled and ruined by mosquitoes, centipedee, scorpions, spiders, snakes, malaria and other Natural evils. This story is more concerned with Moral evils or Human evils. The boys degenerate into savagey, barbarism, killing. They kill a pig and behead it, they kill a chameleon(in the 1990 movie version), and they kill 2 boys from their group I have read that this book's themes is that humans are basically violent, cruel savages, whether young or old, whether in civilized society or in a jungle, and the defects in society can be traced to the defects of human nature. That's true, but you can add one or two more steps by saying that the defects of human nature can be traced back to the defects of Nature, and the defects of BOTH humanity AND Nature can be traced back to the defects of the CREATOR. I blame the creator for us evil sinful humans. The creator either made us evil OR He ALLOWED us to become evil, and He continues to allow all this human evil and sin ad nauseam, ad infinitum which He supposedly hates so much. Man's sins are the CREATOR's sins in man. Satan and demons are to blame? Well who created Satan and demons? And who allows these evil beings the freedom and power to corrupt and ruin human nature? God is, according to Fundie Christians. "Congratulations" all you silly, misguided, deluded Fundies, for by giving credit to God for creating EVERYHING AND EVERYONE, you have made Him the creator of cancer, centipedes,hurricanes, serial killers, Hitler, and Satan and demons. You credit God with creating vile, repulsive things such as execrement, vomit, spit, urine, earwigs, snakes, spiders, and every other repulsive worm, snail, and slug. This isn't praiseworthy. Rather, its insulting. Crediting God with creating centipedes, cancer, ticks, mental deficiency, and physical deformities(human freaks) is an insult to the name of God. Really Christians? Do you really believe God created execrement? Why then attribute Him with morality and omniscience when this illustrates the creator's stupidity, incompetence, insanity, and degeneracy?

      How can this God expect blind faith and blind trust, and expect us to love Him and worship Him when He treats His creatures with such cruelty and negligence? Its irrational and insane to expect to be loved when one is cruel, negligent, incompetent, and when one is so remote, aloof, and disconnected from your creation? This God is trashing and ruining His own reputation and He is too stupid to see it. Its a pitiful execuse for a deity, its a pitiful execuse for a divine being, and its a pitiful execuse for a God. This God is a failure in every sense. He fails to help, He fails to heal, He fails to protect, and He fails to provide. Hes such a FAILURE He can't even or wont even communicate with us and has allowed numerous conflicting religions, mass division, and mass confusion. The Bible and Christianity have arguably caused more disagreement, more division, and more confusion than any other book. Its EMBARRASSING, folks. And this is a win for Satan and demons. What a lost cause is the future.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - with over 7 billion people on the planet, spread out over 7 continents and millions of islands, speaking 6500 languages over 5000 cultures, there's got to be more than one way to think. That's why there are over 9000 religions in the world. Who is to say one is more right than any other?

      At the risk of tooting my own horn, I'd like you to check out the series on the 10 most practiced religions I am currently writing. I still have to finish one more hub on the subject, but I believe I've written enough to give you a pretty good idea.

      https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/What-Take...

      My point is, people from these far-flung countries had to figure out things for themselves. Notice what they have in common, as well as how they differ. Note, especially, the poem by John Godfrey Saxe that I have included in the third hub (you can find a link to the next hub at the bottom of each article).

      Here's a link to another article. It is about modern day religion, based on the scientific knowledge we have today.

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essay...

      The logic in this article should assuage your fears.

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      Moral Man 3 years ago

      My belief isn't atheist nor agnostic but what is known as Process Theology. Deficient Theism describes my belief as I believe in a deficient God or gods, and whoever or whatever created this horrible world is deficient. God or the creator cannot be all the wonderful things they say He is when we have a world filled with evil, sin, pain, and death. Deism is an example of a deficient God because the Deist God is uncaring, remote, and aloof from His creation. Dualism or Dualist religions such as Manicheism, Gnosticism, and Zoroastrianism have a God who is supposedly good but who is weak which is a deficiency. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are monotheistic and Monistic making God totally sovereign over everything, which includes evil, suffering, and Satan. The God of Monism, in my opinion, is not all good, and not all wise, and He is insane. Its definitely a deficient God. Dystheism is the belief that God or the gods are not all good, but are not totally evil either, while Maltheism is the belief that God or the gods are totally evil. I don't believe that God, or at least the Bible God, is totally evil. I don't believe He is totally good. He is both good and evil, or morally ambivalent, which can be seen in His behavior in the Bible, and which can be seen in the Nature He created and which can be seen in the humans He created. The Bible God is a Jekyll and Hyde with a split personality. Isahaia chapter 45, verse 7 in the King James Bible says about God, I make peace and create evil." The same God who created lovely roses also created the horrible ebola microbe. Animals such as lions, elephants, honeybees, bears each have both a gentle side and a cruel, violent side. The Bible God is both loving and horrible at the same time. Lightning and volcanoes are among the two symbols used for the Bible God and they fit Him perfectly. Both lightning and volcanoes are super dangerous, super violent, and horrible, and yet, lightning and volcanoes also have a beneficial or good side in being strangely beautiful, and helps keep the soil fertile. But do we really want a God with such a split personality? A God who is violent, cruel, dangerous, unpredictable, insane, immoral, amoral like the Nature He created? He was in Mr. Hyde mode when He created centipedes, cancer, wandering spiders, malaria, tooth decay, jellyfish, screw worm flies, hurricanes, and tsunamis.

      A God or a creator who is both good and evil would explain why the world is also a mix of good and evil. There are good things in Christianity and the Bible but I think the evils in it outweigh the good. The Fundamentalist Christians, creationists, and evangelists have been preaching about a cruel God who created or who caused suffering and evil and who allows it. My fear is that these Fundamentalists are right. If God allows thousands to millions of years of pain, suffering, death, and evil, then its conceivable He could torture His human creations forever in the next life. Bill Wiese and Mary Baxter claim to have seen visions of hell and other people with near death experiences have claimed to have seen hell. I don't know what to make of it. Mary Baxter's Jesus has no mercy and will allow the damned to continue burning in fire forever. Does this sound like the love your enemies, turn the other cheek, and forgive your enemies Jesus? Does this look like a God of love and mercy? An honest answer is no. She worships a cruel, unforgiving God. Bill Wiese says giant spiders and giant snakes will torment victims in hell as well as fire, a sewer like stench, suffocation or inability to breathe, and being assaulted, sliced, and mutilated by repulsive demonic monsters. How can they believe this anx still believe in a God of love and mercy? This is no longer just punishment for sin. This is criminal cruelty and sadism on steroids. The sick, demented preacher, David J. Stewart says victims in hell will suffer claustrophobia forever by being buried alive inside a coffin like environment as they burn in fire at the same time. Imagine being locked inside a coffin forever. I cannot imagine anything more evil and more cruel than this. Absolutely monstrous. Its horror beyond imagining. What kind of sick, insane, sadistic, cruel monster would inflict such tortures? This God has no reasoning, no common sense, no heart, no pity, no mercy, no morals, and no conscience. Ruthless, pitiless, merciless, heartless, brainless. This is what the Fundamentalist Christian God is like, a cruel, sadistic, insane, unreasoning monster with no conscience. Its a God as bad or worse than Satan who is supposed to be His enemy. Any God, or any being, or any person who inflicts death, killing, and torture is evil, insane, stupid, immoral, amoral. I believe in a deficient flawed God who is probably cruel and almost certainly insane, and I believe in a Devil or Satan and demons. I could be wrong, or I could be right. Unless and until either God or Satan start speaking up and start communicating to us humans more clearly, we are not going to know what we want to know and what we need to know. We still don't know what God is really like, we still don't know what Satan is really like, we still don't know how and when the creation happened or who created it, we still don't know why evil and suffering abounds in the world, and we still don't know what happens after death. Thank you for reading.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - I agree with you. Christianity rivals Islam as the cruelest religion. Both sprang from Judaism, and both have been the worst tormentors of Jews throughout history. Speaking of Jews - the Ten Lost Tribes lost their standing for not being OCD enough, but they escaped the Holocaust. As for the remaining 2 tribes, they endured multiple pogroms culminating in the Holocaust because afterwards, they became TOO OCD. Currently, about half of Jews today are either atheist or agnostic. It's like, since nothing they do is right, why bother?

      You could benefit from following their example. Also, check out the religious histories of India, as opposed to Mexico. Both countries were taken over by European Christians. In Mexico they succeeded; as a result, the Aztec and Mayan Empires, were reduced to ruin, and they have yet to recover. In India, they succeeded to a point, but Mahatma Gandhi found a way to overthrow the Europeans. His non-violent HINDU practices were copied throughout the world, including by the Christian Martin Luther King Jr. Sure, India suffered major decline over the centuries, but it is re-emerging as a world power.

      Another country you might check out is China. Throughout most of world history, it enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world. It lost that standing 200 years ago, because of holding back secrets and cutting itself off from the world, but it is currently re-emerging as well. Its religion is Confucianism, which is Atheist. It was founded by Confucius, an unusually brilliant man who came up with ideas of how to establish the perfect society. Its humanistic philosophy gives Man the responsibility to find cures for cancer, prevent Holocausts, and create our own heaven here on Earth.

      As for whoever taught you these horrific ideas - nobody died and left them boss. So who can say they're right? This is the way Hitler operated, but even he was defeated eventually. So there's no evidence the world is run by a cosmic Hitler. If it were, everywhere would be one big Auschwitz.

      Relax! Enjoy the life you have! Don't throw it away on bullshit like this!

      P.S. I can speak with authority because I was in a cult once.

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      Moral Man 3 years ago

      Say yes to Life, its kind of you to put my mind at ease. The problem is, I was raised as Catholic and Fundamentalist Christian and Christianity claims its the only true religion and the only way to salvation. Christianity claims that Hinduism and all other religions, near death experiences, ghosts, hauntings, and every unexplained phenomena, are all Satanic or demonic deceptions. So when a person sees a ghost, he's really seeing a demon in disguise. Satan and demons, it is argued, are continually playing tricks on people to confuse us, deceive us, and to corrupt us to draw us away from God and to draw us away from Jesus. All Hinduists and believers in reincarnation are doomed to hell according to these Fundamentalist Christians. If every unexplained phenomena such as near death experiences, reincarnation, out of body experiences, fairies, telekinesis, levitation, crystal gazing, paganism,divination,etc are all Satan and demons pulling the strings to deceive us then why is God allowing this? Christianity is the cruelest and most intolerant religion. Its either Jesus or Satan, and its either heaven or hell with Christianity. There is no middle ground and no alternatives with Christianity. Its a dead end religion. If Christianity is the only true religion, then why didn't God make Himself clear? Christianity and the Bible have caused centuries of mass disagreement, mass division, and mass confusion. There are so many contradictions throughout the entire Bible its not even funny, and a lot of it is vague, ambiguous, unclear, and incomprehensible. The Bible is a contorted, convoluted, contradictory, confusing mess written by who knows who, written in who knows when, and whose meaning is who knows what. For every church and every denomination that exists, all other churches and denominations are heretics who are on their way to hell. Catholics contradict Protestants, and contradict themselves, and Protestants contradict Catholics and contradict themselves, and Gnostic Christianity contradicts both Catholics and Protestants. Why allow all this disagreement, division, and confusion when our eternal souls are at stake? Why can't God communicate to every person what the truth is? Instead this deadbeat, absentee landlord God chooses to remain silent and secret and watches us endlessly arguing, fighting, speculating. What does that say about this God's character? This God seems to have no interest in communicating with us. The creator of the world and universe can't even or wont even communicate with us and can't even or wont even cure cancer. Its pitiful and embarrassing.

      I personally prefer to believe in either Spiritualism or Tbeosophy in the Astral planes of existence for the afterlife. I don't want to worship a cruel, insane, unreasoning, stupid, incompetent God who allows eons of evil and suffering, and I certainly don't deserve hell either. Im stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either I accept and love this cruel God of Christianity and spend eternity with this monster, or I spend eternity being physically tortured forever in hell with Satan. Its a horrifying dilemma. Either spend eternity being physically tortured forever, or spend eternity with the same monster who is doing the torturing. I hope and pray Spiritualism or Theosophy in the Astral planes of existence are true, but Christians will say that these are lies and deceptions by Satan. Just about everything is Satanic or demonic it seems. Fundamentalist Christianity is one of the cruelest religions.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Moral Man - I hope you see this. I noticed you have posted twice here, and you seem really tortured.

      If you had been born and raised in a non-Christian country, you would have been taught differently, and would have an entirely different point of view. Hindu-based religions teach that life and the world are an eternal cycle. There are other realms, heaven and hell being among them. Existence in hell only happens to people who have committed horrible deeds here on Earth, and even then, it is temporary; they have a chance to come back and make things right. Existence in heaven can be permanent if people there don't become selfish and overindulgent.

      No matter what people tell you, NO ONE really knows what lies beyond this life. We can only speculate. I was raised in the Christian manner, believing death is a deep sleep, and the dead are awakened when Christ returns. I am about as un-psychic as you can get, but once I was going to the hospital to visit someone, and wondered why I was hearing his voice. When I arrived, his family was in his room; it turned out he had already passed 3 hours before. Later, his brother told me when he had gotten the call, he heard his voice on the way to the hospital, and it was saying, "Tell Mom I'm in a better place." So apparently, life goes on after death.

      Please don't torment yourself reading books written by people who have not visited the other realms, and therefore have no idea what they're talking about!

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      Moral Man 3 years ago

      This world is a hellhole and horror movie. Theres a nightmarish aspect to the world. Both humanity and Nature is permeated and saturated with evil and defects. The human body and brain as well as the bodies and brains of many animals, from fish to mammals, are afflicted with defects and diseases, reaching its peak in human beings. Its bad enough that human nature is prone to sin and evil due to Adam and Eve's sin and due to Satan and demons. Human evil and sin has caused a hell on earth for both humans and animals. Human sin and evil is sufficient punishment, right? Unfortunately, this unreasoning, insane, unfair, cruel, sadistic God also inflicts or allows Natural evils to punish human sin. Why do animals need to be punished? Why do babies need to die? Why do good innocent animals have to suffer and die?

      I invite any Christian to visit a hospital and witness the suffering that goes on and then tell me if a God of love and mercy would inflict this or would allow this. Tell victims of cancer, ebola, stroke, malaria that they are suffering because Adam and Eve ate a forbidden fruit eons ago. Throw original sin at their faces Cbristians. To those who have lost loved ones due to drunk driving and crime, tell these people its because of Adam and Eve's sin. Tell them this stupid, confounding, screwed up story to explain their misery Christians. Its the height of unfairness, unreasonablensss, insanity, cruelty, and stupidity this story of Adam and Eve and it makes God look like a mean, cruel jerk. This God helped cause the sin of Adam and Eve in the first place and is as much to blame as the serpent and is as much to blame as Satan and is as much to blame as Adam and Eve. He helped orcbestrate this tragedy and travesty. This God wrote the book on "How to screw and ruin your creation."

      All this disagreement, division, and confusion over the Bible, over Christianity, and over religion is incredible incompetence, carelessness, sloppiness, negligence, insanity, and stupidity. If we choose the wrong faith then its hell. So salvation and interpreting the Bible and choosing the correct faith and choosing the correct church becomes an eenie meenie minie mo guessing game, and if we guess wrong then its hell. How sick and perverted is this? Its a confused and confusing God who keeps changing His mind. Its a God wbo can't communicate with us humans in a clear manner for all to understand. This God is conducting a cruel test and cruel experiment, and if we fail His test and fail His experiment then its hell. This God is a CRIMINAL. Its a moral monstrosity and perversion. This irresponsible God allows Satan and demons to corrupt and ruin His creation and ALLOWS us to deal with these evil entities. He is too stupid or lazy to put a stop to Satan and demons. I can picture Satan laughing at this incompetent God and laughing at humanity. God's stupidity is Satan's opportunity. Satan is winning this war.

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      Moral Man 3 years ago

      According to Fundamentalist Christians anywhere from 75 percent to 90 percent of all humans who have ever lived and died, from past, present, and future, are doomed to be roasted like charcoals forever with Satan in hell. If this is true, then Jesus Christ's mission to save us was a spectacular failure and its Satan who is winning in this campaign to win souls. And who are the victims who will be in hell according to these Fundies? All atheists, agnostics, Muslims, pagan religions, wicca, New Age, and all those Christians(like myself) who make insulting comments about God, and all heretics(like myself), apostates, and all those Christians who didn't believe the entire Bible literally word for word ( if one can even understand the Bible), all those people who failed to correctly interpret the Bible,( which is impossible to interpret such a vague, ambiguous, contradictory mess as the Bible), and all those who failed to put God and Jesus first in their lives, and according to Catholics, all those who failed to get baptized, etc, etc, are all doomed to spend eternity being barbecued in a lake of fire and execrement. Wow. If one failed to belong to the true church(if there is such a thing) then its hell. The more Fundamentalist a Christian's belief is, the more people are going to end up in hell. According to Calvinists, the cruelest version of Christianity, 90 to 99 percent of the population is ending up in hell. If this is true then we should all be living in fear and losing our sleep. I know I am. My question for Christians is this:are you all living in fear and losing your sleep of this wrathful God you worship? Are you all plucking out your eyes, cutting off your hands, and living penniless on the streets like JEEZUS? Are you all accepting being tortured and killed for your faith like JEEZUS? Jesus expects his followers to be religious fanatics, ascetics, masochists, and martyrs to be his worthy disciple. Jesus expects all of us to carry a cross and to suffer and die like him. Total denial, abstinence, privation, deprivation, poverty, misery, and martyrdom are expected from each of us. How many people want to live like this? We're all expected to forget and forsake ALL earthly things, and we're all expected to forget and forsake EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE we love, including our parents and children, in order to serve JEEZUS and his egomaniacal, narcisstic, selfish God the Father.

      Mary Baxter, Bill Wiese, and David J. Stewart have written disturbing and disgusting things about the horrors in hell. Fire, worms, a sewer like stench, giant spiders and giant snakes, suffocation, being mutilated by demons, and being buried alive inside a claustrophobic, coffin like, furnace like environment.FOREVER. This God chooses the worst forms of torture. Fire is one of the cruelest forms of torture, and suffocation or inability to breathe is one of the worst forms of torture. Mary Baxter's version of Jesus will go up to each damned person in hell and RUB IT IN THEIR FACES as they burn in flames by saying, "See, this is what happens when you don't put God and me first in your life. You were warned while you were on earth but you didn't listen. Its too late now. Mary Baxter's Jesus has no mercy and will not forgive and allows the damned to continue burning forever. So God's forgiveness has an expiration date. Bill Wiese has an equally disgusting book where he describes hell as a lake of fire similar to a volcano and says suffocation or inability to breathe is one of the tortures. The sick, demented preacher, David J. Stewart, in his site, Buried alive, the horrifying reality of hell, says that hell is a claustrophobic place and victims in hell will be tortured FOREVER by being buried alive as they burn in fire at the same time inside a coffin like environment. I suffer from claustrophobia, taphophobia, and premature burial. Claustrophobia and suffocation. Being buried alive inside a coffin for just a few minutes is horrible enough, but forever? This is CRIMINAL CRUELTY AND SADISM the likes of which I cannot imagine and is infinitely vastly worse than any horror movie. I cannot imagine a God being any more evil than this. This is beyond my worst nigbtmare and cruel beyond imagining and cruel beyond belief. It seems this God is aiming for the maximum amount of torture possible to inflict on us humans who He made sinful and flawed in the first place. HOW DARE HE DO THIS. Its a God who is cruel like Satan who is supposed to be His enemy. To burn in fire forever and to suffer claustrophobia and suffocation forever is too horrific to contemplate. Absolutely monstrous, sadistic, diabolical, fiendish, Satanic cruelty, evil, and horror. Im going to end up in a mental hospital from fear. I live in endless fear of what I will face after I die. I dread the future. Im living in endless fear.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      You guys - please check out this hub:

      https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/Cult-Leaders...

      And - uh - compare it to - uh - religious leaders....

      'Nuff said.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Lady Guinervere - here's the link to the second hub in my series on religions: https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Consideri...

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      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      Say Yes To Life, I read it and commented on it.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

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      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      Say Yes To Life I would like to read them too. BTW Jesus was not kind and meek like they portray him to be. He did some not so nice things too. The churches of today rather people not know these things.

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      Jim 3 years ago from Ohio

      Say Yes to Life,

      Even some of what Jesus said was wasn't good. Although, he is much better than he was in the beginning, since he is god. And yeah, that's all contradictory in itself.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Thunkfulthinker - Moral Man, Anonymous, and your hub all bluntly make statements Christians aren't supposed to admit to. I've noticed many churches give out only New Testaments, believing sweet kind Jesus nullifies the vengeful God from the Old Testament - or perhaps as an attempt to draw attention away from Him???

      Religions tend to be shaped by people's environments. I wonder how the Jews came up with this one??? I know they're from the Middle East, but still...

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      Jim 3 years ago from Ohio

      Say Yes to Life,

      Those should make for some interesting articles. I enjoy learning about the various myths and the history behind them. I look forward to giving those an article a read.

      I don't know about anyone else, but I rather enjoy Moral man's/Anonymous' comments.

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      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      You guys - currently I'm writing a 4-part hub on the ten most practiced religions in the world. I have recently published the first one, about the three Abrahamic religions; Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It is titled, "What Takes More Courage than Rebellion? Considering Another Point of View".

      In doing research, plus having lived among people of many nationalities (currently I live in Hawaii), I have noticed religions tend to have a huge impact on people's world view. Some are intimidated by many cruel gods, such as the African tribes missionaries love to talk about; others, like Hawaiians, have a more relaxed and kind system. The Old Testament of the Bible is the Jewish Torah. Jews are the most persecuted people on Earth; perhaps it is because of the God they worship? Especially since their worst tormentors are branches of their religion???

      I've had lots of Jewish friends, and as a Seventh Day Adventist, my denomination has much in common with them. In reading the Bible, which is essentially Jewish history, I can't help but notice; first the Jews weren't OCD enough, which led to the Ten Lost Tribes and the remaining two winding up under Roman rule. Then they became too OCD, and lost their land altogether. What followed were numerous pogroms, which culminated in the Holocaust - which, by the way, the Ten Lost Tribes escaped. Today, about half of all Jews are either atheist or agnostic. Elie Wiesel himself is agnostic. I have noticed a lot of my Jewish friends are bitter against religion. Apparently, since nothing they do is right, they feel why bother?

      Frankly, I see their point!

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      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      Now I read the hub and yes I think many Christians are told what to read and how to read it in that Bible without ever questioning or reasoning some of the stuff they are told to believe. Now I am a Christian, but I am not a Churchian and you bet there is a difference. The God(S) of the OT are just that. There sounds like there are at the very least two separate beings. In the beginning of the Bible God is all of those three that you listed in the beginning of your hub, but he is kind and loving and merciful and then somehow he asked for Abraham to kill his first born. WHAT? That is total opposite of what he was in the beginning. I began to wonder about this as I read further on in the OT and things just did not seem right. Then I read what Jesus said in the NT and I follow that person or myth or whatever it is but they have some very good things to say about everything. Churchians are not taught to read everything that Jesus said. They are only taught to see the birth and how he died and not anything else...or if they do they certainly do not go by them. Jesus was a rebel and a mystic and he taught about loving and how we are to treat each other in a loving manner. The God of the OT is only what those people wanted him to be because they wanted to understand what was happening to them so they blamed everything on him and on this other one called Satan. They never did understand what self responsibility was or is and the church definitely does not want anyone to do that at all. They hold them in fear so they can get money for their elaborate churches and pay for their homes and such things. It is ridiculous to say the least. Church teaches division and Jesus teaches love. How far from reality can the church get?

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      Debra Allen 3 years ago from West By God

      JMcFarland I thank you so much for telling Lybrah that. She needs to act more mature. Oh and Lybrah wrote me a private message to my e-mail here telling me that I am not allowed to post on her hubs and such. I reported her as spam. Next time it will be harassment because that is what she is doing to me right now.

      Sorry to have hijacked your hub here. Now I will go read it and comment on it in the next comment that I make.

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I thought we were a waste of your time and you weren't coming back to this page, Lybrah. Can't stick to what you say let alone sick to what the Bible says about your behavior?

      In case it slipped your notice, the freedom of speech that gives you the ability to share your opinion applies to everyone else as well, whether you like it or not. Since this is neither your page or your hub, you are not in a position to be able to decide what other people need to do or say or think or write. Kthanks.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Moral Man, you and Anonymous (unless you are the same person) need to stop hijacking threads with the same message ad nauseum.

      Say Yes to Life, are you following me? You always seem to appear everywhere I go.

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      Moral Man 3 years ago

      Fundamentalist Christians are unable to see the cruelty, immorality, insanity, stupidity, negligence, and incompetence of the God they worship, or they choose not to see it. They are in denial of reality. I think religion damages the brain. When it comes to God, religion, the Bible, and scriptures, religious folks discard their intellect, reasoning, logic, rationality, and common sense to defend this immoral, insane, cruel, monstrous God they worship.

      If God hates human sin so much then He would not be allowing it ad nauseam, ad infinitum, and He would not have allowed Adam and Eve's sin to spread to ALL future unborn humans, which is unfair, insane, irresponsible, stupid, cruel. As I said before, this God has no intelligent, constructive solution to offer us and He has no merciful, humane solution to offer us. He allows us humans to remain in our sins, defects, and flaws. Human nature isn't going to heal by itself. God has to heal it. He bas failed to heal, and continues to fail. This God is both insane and stupid. An example of insanity and an example of stupidity is to keep making the same mistakes over snd over and over again, or to do nothing and just allow sin and evil to continue indefinitely while expecting different results. Why can't this God change our hearts and change our minds as we sleep? Is that too much to ask? Apparently yes. This pitiful execuse for a God doesn't know how to heal. This deadbeat for a God allows Satan and demons eons of time to tamper, corrupt, deceive, torment, and ruin His creation. I have seen idiots with more sense than this God.

      Theres a difference and theres a line between just punishment and monstrous, sadistic, inhuman cruelty and torture, and this God has crossed that line. As I said before many times, this God cannot see sin in His own behavior, and He cannot see sin in His monstrously cruel, inhumane, disgusting punishments, and He cannot see sin in His cruelty and negligence, and He cannot see sin in the suffering and evil He allows. If He created us humans and if He created Nature and if He created Satan and demons, then He is to blame for all the evils, sins, and defects in HIS creation. Does it take a rocket scientist to understand this, Fundamentalists? I point out again Isahaia chapter, 45, verse 7, in the King James Bible, "I make peace and create evil." Fundamentalists ignore or overlook this verse, or they're not aware of it, or they try to explain it away and justify it. This God helped cause human sin and evil in the first place, especially if He created us humans. He helped make the sin of Adam and Eve possible. He orchestrated the Fall, and is as much to blame as the talking, tempting snake and is as much to blame as Satan. He put Adam and Eve in a precarious, dangerous situation. He ruins His ENTIRE creation for the sin of two people. He killed 70,000 men just for David taking a census. The biggest sinner here is God, who behaves like a mass murdering, rampaging lunatic. Its a deeply, profoundly sick God.This God created or allows the conditions for us humans to rebel against Him. If conducting this experiment with free will, Satan, and Adam and Eve was going to result in rampant evil, sin, misery, and death, then DON'T DO IT. He should not have created this certain angel who became Satan in the first place. Why create billions of people who He knows beforehand will end up in hell? This God is a selfish, self centered, egomaniacal, narcicisstic, irresponsible, insane, unwise, unreasoning cruel bastard. Irresponsible. Immoral. Amoral. Mentally sick, morally sick, mentally blind, morally blind. Unfit to worship. Its an embarrassment.

    • Say Yes To Life profile image

      Yoleen Lucas 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

      Actually, Lybrah just won a convert! Thanks to her statements here, I've decided to go back to the cult! LOL!

    • thunkfulthinker profile image
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      Jim 3 years ago from Ohio

      Lybrah,

      I appreciate your apology.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      I'm only back to apologize for the attack, I was on the warpath last night. While I still disagree with your hub, I apologize for calling it a rip off. It just sounds like something I've read before...anyway, I was pulled into a conversation with someone I did really wish to converse with...

      JM - Before you go on a tirade, know that I choose NOT to interact with you.

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      Jim 3 years ago from Ohio

      I would chime in, but JMcFarland, Austinstar, and Anonymus have done an amazing job.

      Anonymous should write a hub with his /her great comment. I don't know if he/she borrowed that text from somewhere, but if it's not, then kudos to you. That was awesome.

      JMcFarland, your use of the bible is spot on. Kudos.

      Austinstar, great comments. You and JMcFarland should tag team a debate. Of course, they would be like a NFL by an 8th grade team.

      Lybrah, I'm not claiming I came up with every arguing point 100% on my own. But really for any argument, nobody does. People take ideas, put their twist on them, and add their own with their own writing voice. Which is what I attempted to do here.

      I appreciate you commenting on my post and starting a discussion, but calling my hub a "rip off" is inaccurate personal attack. You're free to have your opinion, but I won't stand idly by and be accused of essentially plagiarizing. It simply isn't true or an honest critique of my hub.

      Feel free to comment away with your religious views, but keep your unfounded personal attacks on my integrity to yourself. Unless, of course, you have evidence for your claim. But you can't because I didn't rip anyone off.

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      That's funny.

      You're done with atheist hubs, but you intentionally seek them out and comment on them.

      You think atheists are a waste of time, but you continually start conversations with them.

      You think the Bible is the word of god and you want to use it as a weapon against non believers, but you don't follow how it tells you to behave.

      You think I'm sizing myself up to you when you brought up your own fan mail as if it was some kind of prize.

      I think you're done because there's nothing more you can say when threats fail to have the impact you were looking for.

      You'll forgive me, I'm sure, for not taking you seriously.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Aren't you special! I'm done. Sizing yourself up to me is just pathetic. Like I said, I'm done. And I'm not coming back to this page, so don't bother to sink any lower than you have with another petty response.

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      No, I didn't have to look them up just for you. Knowing the bible well is what happens when you study it in College, looking to go into the ministry. Reading the bible is what made me reject it - along with many, many other atheists. I've read it dozens of times in several languages - as a believer, and as an atheist. How about you? How well do you know Hebrew, Greek and Latin? How many times have you read it?

      The funny thing is that i took a look at your fan mail, then I took a look at mine. I have Christians who disagree with me on almost everything that have left me fan mail because I can discuss things with them intelligently and reasonably and politely. Perhaps if you learn to do the same with others, the way that you're received may change.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Like you're really going to sit there and throw bible verses at me. That is truly the sad thing, and I feel sorry for you. Did you go looking all those up just for little old me? You know the bible so well but reject it? That IS THE SAD THING. You just don't get it. You won't hear the truth. You don't want to. My advice to you is to reread that book with a different attitude, and let it sink in.

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      I'm not righteous, and I don't think I'm better or different or more superior to anyone. That's the difference between you and me, and it has nothing to do with what we believe. You aren't even following what your bible tells you to do, or how it tells you to treat other people, but you want to be taken seriously and have an impact on others who disagree with you? I'm sorry, but the only impact you have on me is I feel sorry for you and I can't understand your anger and seeming hatred towards people who just believe differently than you do. The way you talk to people is not acceptable. It has nothing to do with your message. It has to do with your delivery.

      Since you're so sick and tired of atheists and we're not worth your time, why intentionally seek us out, visit and comment on our hubs? Doesn't that directly contradict what you're saying?

      Titus 3:2 ESV

      To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

      1 Peter 3:15 ESV

      But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

      James 3:17 ESV

      But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.

      1 Corinthians 13:4-5 ESV

      Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;

      James 1:19-20 ESV

      Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Yeah, you are ridiculous and arrogant, and again, speak for yourself. Other Christians? Really? Because all the Christians I've met on this site do not disagree with me. If anything, they tell me not to waste my time on you people, that you are not worth it, and you know what? They're probably right, righteous one!

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Why would I assume that everyone agrees with me? That's ridiculous and arrogant, kind of like thinking that you're better than people who disagree with you.

      The fruits of your labor? I have never seen a non believer receptive to anything you're saying. Ever. I even see Christians disagreeing with your message and your behavior. Insulting, degrading and threatening people does not make them want to listen to you. If you can't see it, that's fine - but everyone else can.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      How in the world would you know who I've reached? You can't know the fruit of my labor. You just keep denying it, fine, but speak for yourself. And the ones who agree with you, fine. But what about the lukewarm Christians or people on the fence that read your garbage and soak it all in? That's truly counterproductive and sad. Don't assume everyone agrees with you either.

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      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Yeah, of course. You get fan mail from people who already agree with you. So what? So you're not saving any souls or being a good messenger to anyone who doesn't already buy the message.

      More threats. Now you understand why we don't take you seriously. All you're equipped with is threats, and there's no reason whatsoever to take it seriously. You whine about how sick and tired you are about reading things from non believers, but you intentionally seek them out, choose to read them and comment on them while simultaneously complaining about them. Seems counter productive, and you're certainly not accomplishing anything meaningful aside from shutting down any opportunity for an honest conversion where you possibly could share your message.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      I do get some serious fan mail from other believers. I couldn't care less if you don't want to be like me. Enjoy your life now...because that's as close to heaven as you're going to get, and it is not going to last forever.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Yeah, I have hope and I'm incredibly loved in the one life that I'm guaranteed to have. I don't need anything more than that, especially if the alternative comes with a horrific and brutal hope that everyone not just like me will be tortured forever. No thanks. So if you're sick of reading about it, why do you? Do you honestly think that anyone would see these types of comments and say "I want to be like her"? The appeal to fear? Is that the best you've got, because it's not convincing and it's incredibly humorous.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Saved from eternal separation from God. I can't imagine anything more horrible, to have no hope, to never be loved.

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      Lela 3 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      If we are the horrible ones, then that is the way we were created according to your beliefs. And you insist on believing you are saved. Saved from what? More horribleness?

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      No one is forcing you to read it. You're choosing to. Everyone, including people who disagree with you, have the right to express their differing opinions. If you don't like it, don't read it. Maybe you should get over it, because wishing supposed suffering on people just because they believe differently is not a great example of your God. It appears rather sociopathic, actually.

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      Lybrah 3 years ago

      Yeah, I'm real sick and tired of reading this redundant crap about how God is horrible....when it is us who are the horrible ones, and need grace. Get over yourselves.

    • JMcFarland profile image

      Julie McFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

      Enjoy the tribulation? Relishing the belief that other people are going to suffer for not believing the same thing you believe? How incredibly nice of you.

    • profile image

      Lybrah 3 years ago

      God sent His son to DIE FOR YOUR SINS...and He is coming back soon...enjoy the tribulation.

      Austinstar, you're the silly one. Logic? Please!!!

      Overall, this hub sounds like a rip off of someone else's...

    • Austinstar profile image

      Lela 3 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

      Whoa! I wonder how Anonymous really feels! Great hub. And the religionists avoid it like the plague because they cannot argue against this logic. I have noticed that before. And as usual, they blame it on "the devil" whom god supposedly also created, so that's pretty silly.

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      anonymous 3 years ago

      The Bible God is a hypocrite, a monster, a dunce, and an absentee landlord with a Jekyll and Hyde personality. "I make peace and create evil." That's supposedly God speaking in Isahaia chapter 45, verse 7 in the King James Bible. He sends an evil spirit to torment King Saul, He sanctions slavery and animal sacrifice, He instigates war and genocide. He killed 70,000 men just because David took a census. This is sick. I believe He is insane as well as evil and cruel. He threatens His chosen people with turning into cannibals and mothers shall eat their babies. He punishes animals for the sins of human beings. He punishes the entire world for the sin of two people, Adam and Eve. He helped cause the Fall or Original Sin in the first place. Why allow a talking, tempting snake and a lurking Satan in the Garden of Eden? The entire creation was set up to be screwed and ruined. He stupidly allows Adam and Eve's sin to spread to all future unborn humans which is unfair. Instead of forgiving Adam and Eve, He went right ahead with cursing and punishing them AND He cursed and punished the ENTIRE creation for all time. Now innocent animals also have to suffer and die for Adam and Eve's sin. The Nature He created is full of violence, killing, death, diseases such as cancer, heart disease, stroke, aneurysm, tooth decay, ebola,etc. Venomous pests such as centipedes, wandering spiders, jellyfish, and parasites such as ticks, fleas, lice, mosquitoes, and screw worm flies abound to torment and kill their victims. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, intense cold, intense heat, suffocation, drowning, pollution, overpopulation, mass starvation and other horrors torment and kill both man and beast, and all this just because two ancient humans ate a forbidden fruit eons ago. Its beyond sick. Its beyond stupid. This God has no common sense, has no reasoning, and does not know how to forgive. It's a God who has shown more cruelty and who has caused and created more suffering to His creation all because two primitive humans ate a forbidden fruit which He orchestrated for them to eat. He helped cause the sin of Adam and Eve in th first place and is as much to blame as the serpent and Satan. Its an unfair, unwise, unkind, unreasoning, unforgiving, cruel God. A clam has more sense than this God.

      A lot of what we call sin and evil is natural or Nature is to blame for it, and our nurture or our environment is also to blame. No one has total free will to do either evil or good. So He is punishing people to a large extent for being what Nature made them to be and for being what their environment made them to be. If Satan or the Devil and demons are to blame for having a world filled with evil and suffering, then the question becomes, why does God allow these evil beings to tamper, corrupt, ruin, and torment His creation? Isn't God supposed to be stronger and smarter than Satan and demons? Is this war between God and Satan still raging, thousands, or millions, or billions of years later? Something is not right with this picture.

      Another embarrassment is the numerous different religions and the numerous different versions of Christianity to choose and confuse. If we choose the wrong version of Christianity then its hell. If we fail to correctly interpret the Bible then its hell. If we fail to put God and Jesus first in our lives then its hell. We're all expected to be religious fanatics, ascetics, masochists, and martyrs like Jesus, and we're all expected to be perfect like Jesus. Its unrealistic. The Bible is vague, ambiguous, unclear, and full of contradictions and has caused centuries of mass disagreement, mass division, and mass confusion. Why can't God make Himself clear?

      The teaching of hell or eternal punishment as described by Fundamentalist Christians such as Mary Baxter, Bill Wiese, and David J. Stewart is monstrous, inhuman, sadistic, fiendish, diabolical cruelty, evil, and horror worse than any horror movie. The torturer in hell include fire, worms, a sewer like stench, giant spiders and giant snakes, suffocation or inability to breathe, being sliced and mutilated by demonic monsters, and according to the sick preacher, David J. Stewart, victims in hell will be buried alive inside a claustrophobic, coffin like environment as they burn in fire at the same time. What's worse than being buried alive inside a coffin? Its being buried alive FOREVER in hell. Edgar Allan Poe and other sufferers of claustrophobia and premature burial would be horrfied beyond description. This is criminal cruelty and sadism on steroids. I cannot imagine a God being any more evil than this. Unimaginable horror. Unspeakable. And according to Fundamentalist Christians billions and billions of people are going to end up in hell. If that's the case then this is a win for Satan, and Jesus Christ's mission to save us was largely a failure. This belief makes God into an insane, cruel, sadistic, spiteful, unreasonijg, unforgiving monster whose cruelty is worse than Hitler, Stalin, Bundy, and Gacy. Its bad enough and depressing enough and embarrassing enough that this God allows thousands to millions of years of evils, cruelties, miseries, and every kind of horror that goes on daily in the world since ancient, prehistoric times. Even Dinosaurs suffered from cancer, tooth decay, arthritis, ticks, mosquitoes, flies, and internal worms. Allowing eons of suffering, death, extinctions, and both Natural evils and Human evils is a CRIME AND DISGRACE. Its criminally embarrassing, and embarrassingly criminal. What a screwed up way to run a creation. The creation is being misrun, mismanaged, ruined, and neglected, and this is a win for Satan. Its a pitiful, embarrassing execuse for a God. This deadbeat, absentee landlord for a God doesn't know how to help us and doesn't know how to heal us. He has no intelligent, constructive solution to offer us and He has no merciful, humane solution to offer us. Its a deficient God. I don't know how else to explain this God's cruelty, carelessness, sloppiness, negligence, incompetence, aloofness, silence, absence. The world is a hellhole and horror movie ruled by the Devil and not by a loving God.

    • thunkfulthinker profile image
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      Jim 3 years ago from Ohio

      jlpark-Thank you! And I guess we'll see...

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      Jacqui 3 years ago from New Zealand

      Interesting take on things, thunkfulthinker. Thanks for sharing.

      I can see this turning into an insult slinging match in the comments - and if it does, I think that most people will have missed your point unfortunately.